Manuscript Errors? - May, 2006
Hello Brethren;
Liberal scholars of many groups, Islamic scholars and the leaders of many other religious organizations question whether the Bible has been accurately handed down to us. It's been over 50 years since I studied textual criticism so this little synopsis may not be in keeping with the latest science, but it's the best I can do from memory.
Undoubtedly some friendly Greek -- Hebrew scholar or conservative textual critic will bring any additions or corrections to my attention via e-mail.
Some believe the Bible has been corrupted over time. It isn't true and here is how we know it isn't.
We have over 5300 partial or complete manuscripts of the New Testament penned prior to fourth century A.D. Though not assembled into what we now know now as the New Testament until 300 A.D., those canonical writings of Jesus' apostles were being read all over the known world. Though it is disputed by some Messianic Jews, the New Testament manuscripts were originally written in Koine` Greek and then copied by early Christians into every language known to the world. Our major manuscripts are in Greek, yes, but we also have important early manuscripts in Latin, Syriac, Aramaic, Hebrew, and several other lesser-known languages. We have one small piece of the Gospel of John, found on the Egyptian island of Elephantine, that is early enough to be a piece of the original.
It is impossible to support any kind of later corrupting when we have those 5300 early manuscripts that prove otherwise. In fact, because of this breadth of early manuscript support, textual scholars have concluded -- that for all practical purposes -- we have the original documents themselves. For a claim of tampering to be seriously considered, one would have to show that scribes from Syria, Babylonia, Galatia, Asia, India, Rome, India, Egypt, Greece, Carthage, Tarshish and Macedonia -- to name a few -- all made the same mistake, at the same time, for the same doctrinal purpose. An utterly ridiculous idea. |
LOOK AT HOW ELLIS SKOLLFIELD'S WRITING DIFFERS FROM EDUCATED SCHOLARS!
I would love to copy and paste but It will be sent to SPAM
NOTE THAT NONE OF THE BOOKS WERE WRITTEN OR GIVEN DIRECTLY FROM JESUS
What do the Scriptures say on the subject?
1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].
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What do the Scriptures say on the subject?
1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].
WELL THIS IS ACCORDING TO SOMEONE THAT TRANSLATED THE KOINE GREEK ..........
The 19th SURA, CALLED MARY, (DOES THE CHristian BOOKS HAVE A CHAPTER DEDICATED TO THE MOTHER OF JESUS?)
The bible spans a period from Moses to Jesus over 16 centuries. Over that period mankind changed from desert dwelling nomads, to advanced nations that could follow religious laws from the Sanhedrin and the civil law of kings and emperors. The Qur'an�s 71 abrogated suras out of only 114 total, occurring within the brief period of 23 years demonstrates not divine revelation, but the whims of it's author.
THE QURAN IS THE CORRECTION OF THE CORRUPTION THAT HAS TAKEN PLACE. NONE OF THE SCRIPTURES ARE FROM ALLAH< THEY ARE COMMENTARIES OF SCRIPTURE!!!!
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2Jo 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
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2Jo 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
The quote above very much sounds like a question from the inquisition dogma and doctrines and a gentle peron like NABI EESA would never ask a question like that!!
I have a few Questions for you on the BIBLE, since that is the topic and not your highly unqualified opinion of ALLAH and Muhammad.
Re: CLASSICAL WRITERS SHOW MECCA COULD NOT HAVE BEEN BUILT BEFORE THE 4th CENTURY AD
- Reply #33 on: July 09, 2010, 04:03:53 PM -
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Quote from: AnnaMuslim on July 09, 2010, 02:43:19 PM
So ask a question, a valid one about Islam ......
Why do you think God would nullify His 1600 year record 500 years after that record closed, then reveal the EXACT OPPOSITE of that record, through an unrepentant prisoner rapist?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1482.msg6430#msg6430
Quote from: AnnaMuslim on July 09, 2010, 02:43:19 PM
........ and lets discuss it AND DO Not I say "now bring proof, Scripture requires belief in the unseen, BELIEF IN THE PROPHETS AND IN GOD ALMIGHTY.
sura 5:47 Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.
Was his Allah just confused? Didn't Allah know the Gospel was "a deviation from the truth" as you suggest?
Please alow me to explain as you are very confused due to the constant practice of twisting GOD's words!!
The translation is: Judge by what ALLAH has revealed in the Scripture, not what corrupted men are saying, .......
....... if you arefuse to judge by what is revealed then you are kaafir (disbelievers). In other words you want to believe what you want to believe despite having the clear revelation in your hands.
Like Hear o' israel your lord God is on, begets not nor is he begotten, we are all (including Nabi EESA) the creation of ALLAH and subject to the laws as revealed throughout the ages from Adam to Muhammad
Now since there has been too many human interventions, lost documents, no original language copies, Greek anbd Roman are not a Scriptural languages in fact they are both enemies of the Bani Israeel (Jahud) and the Nasaara (people of Nazerath) and the People of the BOOK.
So then if we are to believe you, was it Mohammed's "Allah's" ignorance, confusion or stupidity that caused him to make his recommendation in the 7th century to follow the Gospel, that Christians had been following for 500 years by the time he made that recommendation?
Sura 5:47 Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.
The very same scriptures and revelation that had been copied tens of thousands of times, and were being read all over the known world, when Mohammed's "Allah" recommended following the revelations therein IN THE 7TH CENTURY.0
"For a claim of tampering to be seriously considered, one would have to show that scribes from Syria, Babylonia, Galatia, Asia, India, Rome, India, Egypt, Greece, Carthage, Tarshish and Macedonia -- to name a few -- all made the same mistake, at the same time, for the same doctrinal purpose. An utterly ridiculous idea."
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=97.
DEAR PETERQuote
So then if we are to believe you, was it Mohammed's "Allah's" ignorance, confusion or stupidity that caused him to make his recommendation in the 7th century to follow the Gospel, that Christians had been following for 500 years by the time he made that recommendation?
Sura 5:47 Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.
AGAIN PETER YOU READ THE TRUTH BUT REFUSE TO ACCEPT IT INSTEAD OF TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE WORDS OF ALLAH YOU MAKE THE SAME UNQAULIFIED< UNJUST, UNFOUNDED CLAIMS AGAINST THE FINAL MESSENGER>MESSENGER>
I HAVE IN MY PREVIOUS POST ON THIS THREAD PROVEN THAT WE ACCEPT ALL THE SCRIPTURE OF THE PREVIOUS PROPHETS< .......
........ NOT THE COMMENTARIES ACCORDING TO UNKNOWN WRITERS!!
QuoteThe very same scriptures and revelation that had been copied tens of thousands of times, and were being read all over the known world, when Mohammed's "Allah" recommended following the revelations therein IN THE 7TH CENTURY.0
"For a claim of tampering to be seriously considered, one would have to show that scribes from Syria, Babylonia, Galatia, Asia, India, Rome, India, Egypt, Greece, Carthage, Tarshish and Macedonia -- to name a few -- all made the same mistake, at the same time, for the same doctrinal purpose. An utterly ridiculous idea."
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=97.
TENS OF THOUSANDS, ALL VERIFIED BY ONE SCHOLAR?
The very same scriptures and revelation that had been copied tens of thousands of times, and were being read all over the known world, when Mohammed's "Allah" recommended following the revelations therein IN THE 7TH CENTURY.
"For a claim of tampering to be seriously considered, one would have to show that scribes from Syria, Babylonia, Galatia, Asia, India, Rome, India, Egypt, Greece, Carthage, Tarshish and Macedonia -- to name a few -- all made the same mistake, at the same time, for the same doctrinal purpose. An utterly ridiculous idea."
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=97.0
ASK YOURSELF WHAT DID THE SCRIBES (COPIERS) COPY FROM? COULD IT BE THE SAME DOCUMENT SENT TO THE VARIOUS PARTS OF THE KNOWN WORLD OVER A THREE HUNDRED YEAR PERIOD? THREE HUNDRED YEARS< SAY IT OUT LOUD TO GET THE IDEA
THEN SAY NICEAN COUNCIL OUT LOUD< THEN SAY< A MARKETING TOOL FOR THE ROMANS>
Where do Mohammed and his "Allah" make a claim, as you, that the Gospel - not men - has been corrupted?
Where do Mohammed and his "Allah" make a claim, as you, that the Gospel - not men - has been corrupted?
PICK UP THE OLD TESTAMENT LOOK AT THE COVER NOW OPEN THE PAGES AND READ THE FIRST FEW PAGES< WHO PRINTED IT
DOES IT SAY THE TORAH OF MOSES?
PICK UP THE KING JAMES VERSION OF THE NEW TESTAMENT
DOES IT SAY THIS IS THE INJEEL OF JESUS?
PICK UP THE PSALMS
DOES IT SAY THIS IS THE ZABUR OF DAVID?
SHOW ME THE SCRIPTURES FROME THE PROPHETS NOT THE BOOKS ACCORDING TO COPIED FROME< RECOPIED FROM< TRANSLATED BY AND TRANSLATED FROM COPIES OF COPIES THAT ARE CONFIRMED BY YET OTHER COPIES 175 YEARS AFTER THE FACT>
I am starting to think that Anna very well may also beleive that the "Gospel of Barnabus" is also a Nicean Council conspiracy and not the 15 century forgery it is. Most Muslims will swear balck and blue that Barnabus actually wrote it. because thats what they are told happened !!!
Did you visit the link? That may be a better place to chat about it
I know. It leaves me dumbfounded that innocent Muslims are taught that this Gospel is truth and was written in the 1st century AD but was rejected at the Council. It appears the history of this false Gospel had to also be MADE UP in a way that Muslims will swallow it.
Dr. W Graham Scroggie of the Moody Bible Institute, Chicago, a prestigious Christian evangelical mission, says:
“..Yes, the Bible is human, although some out of zeal which is not according to knowledge, have denied this. Those books have passed through the minds of men, are written in the language of men, were penned by the hands of men and bear in their style the characteristics of men….It is Human, Yet Divine,”
Dr. Lobegott Friedrich Konstantin Von Tischendorf, one of the most adamant conservative Christian defenders of the Trinity was himself driven to admit that:
"[the New Testament had] in many passages undergone such serious modification of meaning as to leave us in painful uncertainty as to what the Apostles had actually written”
Of the English Bible
http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/#timeline
Of the English Bible
http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/#timeline
CAN YOU PIECE TOGETHER THE HISTORY OF THE BIBLE FOR THE BENEFIT EVERYONE<
1. Are the writings of the Akkadian Tablets the source of the Bible? Are the myths mixed with Prophesy?
2. Was the Bible rewritten after the Babylonian Occupation of Israel ?
3. What is the original language of the Bible (if any) since the reference to and language in the current form could be vastly misleading and ambiguous.
4.How Many versions were destroyed over time that required rewriting from the memory of individuals?
how many are oral misinterpretations?
5. Why did the Romans see fit to destroy and wage war against anyone that disagreed with their version of the Gospels??
6. Who gave any of the translators the authority to translate the Bible into any other language?
7 What is the standard for interpretation of the Scripture is it each man for himself or every sect and division for himself?
My list of Questions goes on and on and on and on.
I am searching far and wide for the definitive origin,........
........ the more I research it the more questions I have, no I am not confused, I am in search of the truth.
The only conclusion I came to was that the previous corruptions and the corrupted clergy that presented their own theories as truth won by either war or polarity.
The more arguments the Christians (sorry to use the widely accepted derogatory term) .........
....... present the more they emphasize the need for God to send Muhammad to bring the true message to the world.