..... ISLAM IS NOT CONTRADICTING JESUS< .......
...... THE ACCOUNTS GIVEN BY SCRIBES AND PHARISEES YEARS AFTER THE FACT CAN BE UNDRSTOOD AS RELIGIUS FEVOUR .......
....... BORNE OUT OF INTENSE LOVE AND MISGUIDED BY SATAN AS THEY SHOULD BE WORSHIPPING GOD ALONE>
If you would quit removing the first
[ quote author=Peter link=topic=877.msg7983#msg7983 date=1287760141]
tag on my posts that you quote, your posts would come out right.
If you copy that tag and go back and paste it at the top of your failed posts (removing the space from between the first bracket and the q) it will fix them.
Regarding copy and pasting random passages from Mohammed's satanic antichrist rantings please see....
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7988#msg7988
You are quoting the very poorly recalled bits and pieces from scripture (that were included along with bits and pieces of Arabic and Hebrew fables), that Mohammed heard from those like Jabr and Tubb'a and his tri-lingual Jewish secretary.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=452.0
Here's some funny stuff
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=776.0
Now why don't you instead explain your veneration of the black stone that you bow to, and the Kaaba that you march around, just like the pagan Arabian moon god worshipers did that Mohammed got it from. What distinguished the black stone from the other 359 idols that adorned the Kaaba?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1050.0
The answer is, of course, that it represented the moon god which the pagans considered to be their most powerful deity. That's why Mohammed favored it, and concocted his new story about it, so he could appease the pagans.
What's the story you were indoctrinated to believe?
Indeed Mohammed's followers performed Hajj shoulder to shoulder with the pagans, up until the year before Mohammed's last Hajj, when the pagans got kicked out of their own ritual!
Sahih Bukhari Volume 2, Book 26, Number 689:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
In the year prior to the last Hajj of the Prophet when Allahs Apostle made Abu Bakr the leader of the pilgrims, the latter (Abu Bakr) sent me in the company of a group of people to make a public announcement: 'No pagan is allowed to perform Hajj after this year, and no naked person is allowed to perform Tawaf of the Kaba.'
It would be funny if it weren't so tragic.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj_umrah.htm
YOUR LIES AND DECEPTION IS OBVIOUS< YOU STATE THE TRUTH BUT FAIL TO GRASP IT.
Allah points out the great virtue of the Qur'an, and says that even if mankind and the Jinn were all to come together and agree to produce something like that which was revealed to His Messenger , they would never be able to do it, even if they were to cooperate and support and help one another.
YOUR LIES AND DECEPTION IS OBVIOUS< YOU STATE THE TRUTH BUT FAIL TO GRASP IT. |
| From what Islamic history reveals about the inspiration of the Quran http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=452.0 |
| To the textual history of the Quran http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=96.0 To the abrogation required in failed efforts to sort Mohammed's mess out http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=96.0 |
| To the successive Hadiths penned in efforts to create a fictional history to underpin Mohammed's rehashed Arabian and Hebrew fables http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=41.0 |
| I highly recommend you read "Prophet of Doom" by Craig Winn. The following link is an excerpt on the Kaaba. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1130.msg4416#msg4416 |
| "Gerd Puin, the world's leading specialist in Arabic calligraphy and Qur'anic paleography, studying the oldest manuscripts, speaks with disdain about the willingness of Muslims and non-Muslims alike, to accept Islamic dogma. He says: "The Qur'an claims for itself that it is 'mubeen,' or clear, but if you just look at it, you will see that every fifth sentence or so simply doesn't make sense. Many Muslims will tell you otherwise, but the fact is that a fifth of the Qur'an is just incomprehensible. This is what has caused the traditional anxiety regarding translation. If the Qur'an is not comprehensible, if it can't even be understood in Arabic, then it's not translatable into any language. That is why Muslims are afraid." |
You seem to have missed these posts. I separated them so you could address them individually.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=877.msg7998#msg7998
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=877.msg7999#msg7999
Once again you failed to address the posts.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=877.msg7999#msg7999
FIRSTLY THE ONLY ONE THAT IGNIORES POSTS IS YOU< YOU ASNWERS ALL YOUR POSTS WITH STUPID ACCUASATIONS BUT LET ME INGORM AND IGNORANT PERSON LIKE YOURSELF AND I HOPE THAT YOU ARE MATURE ENOUGH TO ACCEPT THE ANSWERS THAT FOLLOW>
Maybe it will help to go item by item.
You yourself understand, that the very same black stone that Muslims bow toward 5 times a day, travel to and march around, was just one of 360 dumb idols, that the Quraish venerated at their kaaba.
Pagan Arabians from Mecca, and others traveled to the black stone and 359 other stone idols, and marched around the Kaaba, venerating the same black stone idol.
What changed to make that same black stone that Muslims bow toward 5 times a day, and travel to and march around, something other than the same dumb idol that pagan Arabian star family worshipers traveled to and marched around?
All you posted above are verses that suggest that you venerate it because Mohammed venerated it.
But even you know that Mohammed venerated the same black stone idol as a young man, and pagan idol worshiper, when his uncle tended the Kaaba.
So what changed the black stone, between when Mohammed venerated the black stone as a pagan idol worshiper, and when Mohammed venerated the black stone as a Muslim?
What changed the black stone, between when Mohammed circumambulated the black stone as a pagan idol worshiper, and when Mohammed circumambulated the black stone as a Muslim?
What changed the black stone, between when Mohammed circumambulated the black stone as a pagan idol worshiper, and when Mohammed circumambulated the black stone as a Muslim?
Muhammad changed the same thing JESUS TRIED TO CHANGE IN THE JEWS< BELIEF in one GOD (THE GOD OF THE UNIVERSE and heaven)
BELIEF IS NOT IN THE STONE< PRAYER IS NOT OF THE STONE BUT OF ALLAH.
Ritual is not RESPECT which IS NOT TRADITION and nor is BELIEF, FAITH IS NOT OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW, but all depends from the correct worship of GOD
THE DIFFERENCE IS THAt THE ARABS NOW BELIEVED CORRECTLY, in LAA IELAAH (NO GOD) HA IEL_ALLAH (EXCEPT AL THE _ALLAH GOD) none is worthy of worship but ALLAH, ALLAH IS IN HEAVEN (SAMAA) ALLAH CREATED THE HEAVENS AND EARTH IN SIX DAYS AND ROSE UPON HIS THRONE< ALLAH IS UNIQUE, NONE IS LIKE ALLAH unlike anything we vcan imagine
ALLAH has dominion over all things and has created man in his image.
What changed the black stone, between when Mohammed circumambulated the black stone as a pagan idol worshiper, and when Mohammed circumambulated the black stone as a Muslim?
Muhammad changed the same thing JESUS TRIED TO CHANGE IN THE JEWS< BELIEF in one GOD (THE GOD OF THE UNIVERSE and heaven)
BELIEF IS NOT IN THE STONE< PRAYER IS NOT OF THE STONE BUT OF ALLAH.
You profoundly misunderstand. The Quraish didn't worship the stone, or believe in the stone.
The stone REPRESENTED their pagan deity.
Muslims don't worship the stone or believe in the stone.
The stone REPRESENTS Mohammed's "Allah". If it didn't, you wouldn't bow toward it, or circumambulate it.
WHERE on earth did you get that information from, not even the quraish called it their GOD, HOW CAN YOU BE SO NAIVE and gullible to believe something like that, I follow the religion of ABRAHAM, Isaac, Ishmael, Jacob, MOSES, aaron, David Solomon, John the baptist JESUS, and MUhammad and the Messengers of ALLAH,
I HAVE READ THE SCRIPTURES AND STORIES OF THE PROPHETS AND THE LIFE OF JESUS IN DETAIL AND HAVE BEEN A MUSLIM FOR ALL MY LIFE AND NEVER DID I TAKE NOTE OF THE BLACK STONE OR HEAR ANY MUSLIM SAY< OR REFER TO THE BLACKS STONE AS AN OBJECT OF REVERENCE NOR DID I EVER THINK OF IT OR HEAR ANY MUSLIM LECTURE OR READ ANYTHING YOU ARE SAYING ABOUT IT. PLEASE STOP YOUR CONFOUNDING IGNORANCE!!! IT IS DETRIMENTAL TO YOUR SPIRITUAL WELL_BEING
I AM SADDENED BY THE LEVEL OF YOUR IGNORANCE AND I AM SHOCKED AT THE STATE OF MIND YOU ARE IN,
LET ME INTRODUCE YOU TO ALLAH
"He is Allah, the Creator, the Originator, The Fashioner, to Him belong the most beautiful names: whatever is in the heavens and on earth, do declare His praises and glory. And He is the Exalted in Might, The Wise. (Quran 59:24)
"The most beautiful names belong to God: so call on Him by them;..." (7:180)
It is not possible to perfectly translate the names and attributes of Allah from their original Arabic into English. However, here are some fairly close explanations.
^= letter ain of arabic '= letter hamza of arabic
Allah
Allah, He who has the Godhood which is the power to create the entities.
Ar-Rahmaan
The Compassionate, The Beneficient, The One who has plenty of mercy for the believers and the blasphemers in this world and especially for the believers in the hereafter.
Ar-Raheem
The Merciful, The One who has plenty of mercy for the believers.
Al-Malik
The King, The Sovereign Lord, The One with the complete Dominion, the One Whose Dominion is clear from imperfection.
Al-Quddoos
The Holy, The One who is pure from any imperfection and clear from children and adversaries.
As-Salaam
The Source of Peace, The One who is free from every imperfection.
Al-Mu'min
Guardian of Faith, The One who witnessed for Himself that no one is God but Him. And He witnessed for His believers that they are truthful in their belief that no one is God but Him.
Al-Muhaimin
The Protector, The One who witnesses the saying and deeds of His creatures.
Al-^Azeez
The Mighty, The Strong, The Defeater who is not defeated.
Al-Jabbaar
The Compeller, The One that nothing happens in His Dominion except that which He willed.
Al-Mutakabbir
The Majestic, The One who is clear from the attributes of the creatures and from resembling them.
Al-Khaaliq
The Creator, The One who brings everything from non-existence to existence.
Al-Bari'
The Evolver, The Maker, The Creator who has the Power to turn the entities.
Al-Musawwir
The Fashioner, The One who forms His creatures in different pictures.
Al-Ghaffaar
The Great Forgiver, The Forgiver, The One who forgives the sins of His slaves time and time again.
Al-Qahhaar
The Subduer, The Dominant, The One who has the perfect Power and is not unable over anything.
Al-Wahhaab
The Bestower, The One who is Generous in giving plenty without any return. He is everything that benefits whether Halal or Haram.
Al-Razzaaq
The Sustainer, The Provider.
Al-Fattaah
The Opener, The Reliever, The Judge, The One who opens for His slaves the closed worldy and religious matters.
Al-^Aleem
The All-knowing, The Knowledgeable; The One nothing is absent from His knowledge.
Al-Qaabid
The Constricter, The Retainer, The Withholder, The One who constricts the sustenance by His wisdomand expands and widens it with His Generosity and Mercy.
Al-Baasit
The Expander, The Englarger, The One who constricts the sustenance by His wisdomand expands and widens it with His Generosity and Mercy.
Al-Khaafid
The Abaser, The One who lowers whoever He willed by His Destruction and raises whoever He willed by His Endowment.
Ar-Raafi^
The Exalter, The Elevator, The One who lowers whoever He willed by His Destruction and raises whoever He willed by His Endowment.
Al-Mu^iz
The Honorer, He gives esteem to whoever He willed, hence there is no one to degrade Him; And He degrades whoever He willed, hence there is no one to give Him esteem.
Al-Muthil
The Dishonorer, The Humiliator, He gives esteem to whoever He willed, hence there is no one to degrade Him; And He degrades whoever He willed, hence there is no one to give Him esteem.
As-Samee^
The All-Hearing, The Hearer, The One who Hears all things that are heard by His Eternal Hearing without an ear, instrument or organ.
Al-Baseer
The All-Seeing, The One who Sees all things that are seen by His Eternal Seeing without a pupil or any other instrument.
Al-Hakam
The Judge, He is the Ruler and His judgment is His Word.
Al-^Adl
The Just, The One who is entitled to do what He does.
Al-Lateef
The Subtle One, The Gracious, The One who is kind to His slaves and endows upon them.
Al-Khabeer
The Aware, The One who knows the truth of things.
Al-Haleem
The Forebearing, The Clement, The One who delays the punishment for those who deserve it and then He might forgive them.
Al-^Azeem
The Great One, The Mighty, The One deserving the attributes of Exaltment, Glory, Extolement,and Purity from all imperfection.
Al-Ghafoor
The All-Forgiving, The Forgiving, The One who forgives a lot.
Ash-Shakoor
The Grateful, The Appreciative, The One who gives a lot of reward for a little obedience.
Al-^Aliyy
The Most High, The Sublime, The One who is clear from the attributes of the creatures.
Al-Kabeer
The Most Great, The Great, The One who is greater than everything in status.
Al-Hafeez
The Preserver, The Protector, The One who protects whatever and whoever He willed to protect.
Al-Muqeet
The Maintainer, The Guardian, The Feeder, The Sustainer, The One who has the Power.
Al-Haseeb
The Reckoner, The One who gives the satisfaction.
Aj-Jaleel
The Sublime One, The Beneficent, The One who is attributed with greatness of Power and Glory of status.
Al-Kareem
The Generous One, The Bountiful, The Gracious, The One who is attributed with greatness of Power and Glory of status.
Ar-Raqeeb
The Watcher, The Watchful, The One that nothing is absent from Him. Hence it's meaning is related to the attribute of Knowledge.
Al-Mujeeb
The Responsive, The Hearkener, The One who answers the one in need if he asks Him and rescues the yearner if he calls upon Him.
Al-Wasi^
The Vast, The All-Embracing, The Knowledgeable.
Al-Hakeem
The Wise, The Judge of Judges, The One who is correct in His doings.
Al-Wadood
The Loving, The One who loves His believing slaves and His believing slaves love Him. His love to His slaves is His Will to be merciful to them and praise them:Hence it's meaning is related to the attributes of the Will and Kalam (His attribute with which He orders and forbids and spoke to Muhammad and Musa -peace be upon them- . It is not a sound nor a language nor a letter.).
Al-Majeed
The Most Glorious One, The Glorious, The One who is with perfect Power, High Status, Compassion, Generosity and Kindness.
Al-Ba^ith
The Reserrector, The Raiser (from death), The One who resurrects His slaves after death for reward and/or punishment.
Ash-Shaheed
The Witness, The One who nothing is absent from Him.
Al-Haqq
The Truth, The True, The One who truly exists.
Al-Wakeel
The Trustee, The One who gives the satisfaction and is relied upon.
Al-Qawiyy
The Most Strong, The Strong, The One with the complete Power.
Al-Mateen
The Firm One, The One with extreme Power which is un-interrupted and He does not get tired.
Al-Waliyy
The Protecting Friend, The Supporter.
Al-Hameed
The Praiseworthy, The praised One who deserves to be praised.
Al-Muhsee
The Counter, The Reckoner, The One who the count of things are known to him.
Al-Mubdi'
The Originator, The One who started the human being. That is, He created him.
Al-Mu^eed
The Reproducer, The One who brings back the creatures after death.
Al-Muhyi
The Restorer, The Giver of Life, The One who took out a living human from semen that does not have a soul. He gives life by giving the souls back to the worn out bodies on the resurrection day and He makes the hearts alive by the light of knowledge.
Al-Mumeet
The Creator of Death, The Destroyer, The One who renders the living dead.
Al-Hayy
The Alive, The One attributed with a life that is unlike our life and is not that of a combination of soul, flesh or blood.
Al-Qayyoom
The Self-Subsisting, The One who remains and does not end.
Al-Waajid
The Perceiver, The Finder, The Rich who is never poor. Al-Wajd is Richness.
Al-Waahid
The Unique, The One, The One without a partner.
Al-Ahad
The One.
As-Samad
The Eternal, The Independent, The Master who is relied upon in matters and reverted to in ones needs.
Al-Qaadir
The Able, The Capable, The One attributed with Power.
Al-Muqtadir
The Powerful, The Dominant, The One with the perfect Power that nothing is withheld from Him.
Al-Muqaddim
The Expediter, The Promoter, The One who puts things in their right places. He makes ahead what He wills and delays what He wills.
Al-Mu'akh-khir
The Delayer, the Retarder, The One who puts things in their right places. He makes ahead what He wills and delays what He wills.
Al-'Awwal
The First, The One whose Existence is without a beginning.
Al-'Akhir
The Last, The One whose Existence is without an end.
Az-Zaahir
The Manifest, The One that nothing is above Him and nothing is underneath Him, hence He exists without a place. He, The Exalted, His Existence is obvious by proofs and He is clear from the delusions of attributes of bodies.
Al-Baatin
The Hidden, The One that nothing is above Him and nothing is underneath Him, hence He exists without a place. He, The Exalted, His Existence is obvious by proofs and He is clear from the delusions of attributes of bodies.
Al-Walee
The Governor, The One who owns things and manages them.
Al-Muta^ali
The Most Exalted, The High Exalted, The One who is clear from the attributes of the creation.
Al-Barr
The Source of All Goodness, The Righteous, The One who is kind to His creatures, who covered them with His sustenance and specified whoever He willed among them by His support, protection, and special mercy.
At-Tawwaab
The Acceptor of Repentance, The Relenting, The One who grants repentance to whoever He willed among His creatures and accepts his repentance.
Al-Muntaqim
The Avenger, The One who victoriously prevails over His enemies and punishes them for their sins. It may mean the One who destroys them.
Al-^Afuww
The Pardoner, The Forgiver, The One with wide forgiveness.
Ar-Ra'uf
The Compassionate, The One with extreme Mercy. The Mercy of Allah is His will to endow upon whoever He willed among His creatures.
Malik Al-Mulk
The Eternal Owner of Sovereignty, The One who controls the Dominion and gives dominion to whoever He willed.
Thul-Jalali wal-Ikram
The Lord of Majesty and Bounty, The One who deserves to be Exalted and not denied.
Al-Muqsit
The Equitable, The One who is Just in His judgment.
Aj-Jaami^
The Gatherer, The One who gathers the creatures on a day that there is no doubt about, that is the Day of Judgment.
Al-Ghaniyy
The Self-Sufficient, The One who does not need the creation.
Al-Mughni
The Enricher, The One who satisfies the necessities of the creatures.
Al-Maani^
The Preventer, The Withholder.
Ad-Daarr
The Distresser, The One who makes harm reach to whoever He willed and benefit to whoever He willed.
An-Nafi^
The Propitious, The One who makes harm reach to whoever He willed and benefit to whoever He willed.
An-Noor
The Light, The One who guides.
Al-Haadi
The Guide, The One whom with His Guidance His belivers were guided, and with His Guidance the living beings have been guided to what is beneficial for them and protected from what is harmful to them.
Al-Badi^
The Incomparable, The One who created the creation and formed it without any preceding example.
Al-Baaqi
The Everlasting, The One that the state of non-existence is impossible for Him.
Al-Waarith
The Supreme Inheritor, The Heir, The One whose Existence remains.
Ar-Rasheed
The Guide to the Right Path, The One who guides.
As-Saboor
The Patient, The One who does not quickly punish the sinners.
"...There is nothing whatever like unto Him, and He is the One that hears and sees (all things). Qur'an [42:11]
(Arabic transliteration: Laysa Kamithlihi Shayun Wa Huwa As-Sami' ul-Basir)
NOTE:
I found many different versions of the 99 names. The above 99 are on a poster I have. Another list includes Al-Mu'tiy - The Bestower, The Giver and does not have Al-Ahad - The One. Another list did not have Al-Razzaaq -The Sustainer, The Provider but did have Al-Maajid The Noble, The One who is Majid.
Allah (subhanahu wa ta`ala)'s names are not limited to 99, which is a common misconception. There are a couple of evidences, one is the du`aa where one calls upon Allah by the names He (subhanahu wa ta`ala) has kept to Himself (obviously not taking these names since Allah has not revealed them to us); another is the fact that in the narrations of the famous ninety nine names hadith that do contain 99 names, the names are not consistent between narrations (for example, imam al-bayhaqi reports two versions of this hadith, with different 99 names in each). It is suggested by one commentator that the names were not explicitly stated by the rasul (sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam).
You profoundly misunderstand. The Quraish didn't worship the stone, or believe in the stone.
The stone REPRESENTED their pagan deity.
Muslims don't worship the stone or believe in the stone.
The stone REPRESENTS Mohammed's "Allah". If it didn't, you wouldn't bow toward it, or circumambulate it.
WHERE on earth did you get that information from, not even the quraish called it their GOD,....
LET ME INTRODUCE YOU TO ALLAH
I HAVE READ THE SCRIPTURES AND STORIES OF THE PROPHETS AND THE LIFE OF JESUS IN DETAIL AND HAVE BEEN A MUSLIM FOR ALL MY LIFE AND NEVER DID I TAKE NOTE OF THE BLACK STONE OR HEAR ANY MUSLIM SAY< OR REFER TO THE BLACKS STONE AS AN OBJECT OF REVERENCE NOR DID I EVER THINK OF IT OR HEAR ANY MUSLIM LECTURE OR READ ANYTHING YOU ARE SAYING ABOUT IT. PLEASE STOP YOUR CONFOUNDING IGNORANCE!!! IT IS DETRIMENTAL TO YOUR SPIRITUAL WELL_BEING
I AM SADDENED BY THE LEVEL OF YOUR IGNORANCE AND I AM SHOCKED AT THE STATE OF MIND YOU ARE IN,
LET ME INTRODUCE YOU TO ALLAH
I am not reading these books to prove them wrong or become a skilled debater, I am here to set the record straight regarding the Prophets of ALLAH (AL-the Ielaah-GOD).
The prophets of God's 1600 year record proclaim Jesus' sacrifice for us through both Old Testament prophesy and fulfillment of that prophecy hundreds of years later.
In the Old Testament book of Psalms we find Jesus' crucifixion prophesied:
Old Testament
Psalms 22:16 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Psa&c=22&v=16&t=KJV#16) For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. 17 I may tell all my bones: they look [and] stare upon me. 18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
Fulfilled:
New Testament
Matthew 27:35 (http://www.islamandthetruth.com/gospel_of_matthew.htm#matthew_27) And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.QuoteWHO IS HIM? WHY NOT STATE YASHUA WHY BE SO VAGUE AS HIM COULD MEAN A LIKENESS TO JESUS CAN IT NOT?
We find another reference in Old Testament prophecy of Jesus' second coming:
Old Testament
Zechariah 12:8 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Zec&c=12&v=8&t=KJV#8) In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David [shall be] as God, as the angel of the LORD before them. 9 And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.QuoteAGAIN NO MENTION OF JESUS, SO YOU ASSUMING IT MEANS JESUS AND NOT A LIKENESS, TELL ME WHEN DID THE LORD DEFEND THE INHABITANTS AND WHAT DOES IT REFER TO?
And perhaps for faithful, yet still soverignly blinded Jews...
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.QuoteMOURN FOR WHOM? SOMEONE THAT IS ALIVE IN HEAVEN AND THAT COME AGAIN OR SOMEONE THAT HAS DIED? ONLY STAN IS MOURNING HIS LOSS OF HIS POSITION!
New Testament reference
John 19:37 (http://www.islamandthetruth.com/gospel_of_john.htm#john_19) And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.
More here.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1007.0
Yet even though the crucifixion of Jesus Christ was prophesied, so many hundreds of years in advance, by the very prophets you pretend to proclaim, you reject the Gospel of Jesus Christ, to follow Mohammed.
You reject the Gospel of Jesus Christ because of the "faith" Mohammed filled you with in what to DISbelieve.
So if not the Messiah, as both the secular and scriptural historical records attest from many hundreds of years before Mohammed, then who DID die on the cross?
I HAVE READ THE SCRIPTURES AND STORIES OF THE PROPHETS AND THE LIFE OF JESUS IN DETAIL AND HAVE BEEN A MUSLIM FOR ALL MY LIFE AND NEVER DID I TAKE NOTE OF THE BLACK STONE OR HEAR ANY MUSLIM SAY< OR REFER TO THE BLACKS STONE AS AN OBJECT OF REVERENCE NOR DID I EVER THINK OF IT OR HEAR ANY MUSLIM LECTURE OR READ ANYTHING YOU ARE SAYING ABOUT IT. PLEASE STOP YOUR CONFOUNDING IGNORANCE!!! IT IS DETRIMENTAL TO YOUR SPIRITUAL WELL_BEING
I AM SADDENED BY THE LEVEL OF YOUR IGNORANCE AND I AM SHOCKED AT THE STATE OF MIND YOU ARE IN,
LET ME INTRODUCE YOU TO ALLAH
I HAVE READ THE SCRIPTURES AND STORIES OF THE PROPHETS AND THE LIFE OF JESUS IN DETAIL AND HAVE BEEN A MUSLIM FOR ALL MY LIFE AND NEVER DID I TAKE NOTE OF THE BLACK STONE OR HEAR ANY MUSLIM SAY< OR REFER TO THE BLACKS STONE AS AN OBJECT OF REVERENCE NOR DID I EVER THINK OF IT OR HEAR ANY MUSLIM LECTURE OR READ ANYTHING YOU ARE SAYING ABOUT IT. PLEASE STOP YOUR CONFOUNDING IGNORANCE!!! IT IS DETRIMENTAL TO YOUR SPIRITUAL WELL_BEING
I AM SADDENED BY THE LEVEL OF YOUR IGNORANCE AND I AM SHOCKED AT THE STATE OF MIND YOU ARE IN,
LET ME INTRODUCE YOU TO ALLAH
So from what you are saying I can conclude that you, like me, wouldn't hesitate for a moment to pee on the Quraish's black stone idol?
Simple yes or no will do.
I HAVE READ THE SCRIPTURES AND STORIES OF THE PROPHETS AND THE LIFE OF JESUS IN DETAIL AND HAVE BEEN A MUSLIM FOR ALL MY LIFE AND NEVER DID I TAKE NOTE OF THE BLACK STONE OR HEAR ANY MUSLIM SAY< OR REFER TO THE BLACKS STONE AS AN OBJECT OF REVERENCE NOR DID I EVER THINK OF IT OR HEAR ANY MUSLIM LECTURE OR READ ANYTHING YOU ARE SAYING ABOUT IT. PLEASE STOP YOUR CONFOUNDING IGNORANCE!!! IT IS DETRIMENTAL TO YOUR SPIRITUAL WELL_BEING
I AM SADDENED BY THE LEVEL OF YOUR IGNORANCE AND I AM SHOCKED AT THE STATE OF MIND YOU ARE IN,
LET ME INTRODUCE YOU TO ALLAH
So from what you are saying I can conclude that you, like me, wouldn't hesitate for a moment to pee on the Quraish's black stone idol?
Simple yes or no will do.
FIRSTLY THERE IS NO YES OR NO TO ABSURDITY, ARE YOU MAD? OR HAS YOUR LEVEL OF IGNORANCE COMPELLED YOU TO BE SO RUDE AS TO BRING UP SUCH A ABHORRENT ACT, OH I FORGOT WHO I AM DEALING WITH.
PEE IN PUBLIC? INDICATED THAT HAVE NO SHAME, AT THE KA"ABA INDICATES YOUR COMPLETE LACK OF ETTIQUETTE AND AS FAR AS YES OR NO GOES YOU COMPEL ME TO SAY NO I WOULD NOT DO SUCH A FITHY ACT IN PUBLIC< WOULD YOU YES OR NO ANSWER ONLY.
I HAVE READ THE SCRIPTURES AND STORIES OF THE PROPHETS AND THE LIFE OF JESUS IN DETAIL AND HAVE BEEN A MUSLIM FOR ALL MY LIFE AND NEVER DID I TAKE NOTE OF THE BLACK STONE OR HEAR ANY MUSLIM SAY< OR REFER TO THE BLACKS STONE AS AN OBJECT OF REVERENCE NOR DID I EVER THINK OF IT OR HEAR ANY MUSLIM LECTURE OR READ ANYTHING YOU ARE SAYING ABOUT IT. PLEASE STOP YOUR CONFOUNDING IGNORANCE!!! IT IS DETRIMENTAL TO YOUR SPIRITUAL WELL_BEING
I AM SADDENED BY THE LEVEL OF YOUR IGNORANCE AND I AM SHOCKED AT THE STATE OF MIND YOU ARE IN,
LET ME INTRODUCE YOU TO ALLAH
So from what you are saying I can conclude that you, like me, wouldn't hesitate for a moment to pee on the Quraish's black stone idol?
Simple yes or no will do.
FIRSTLY THERE IS NO YES OR NO TO ABSURDITY, ARE YOU MAD? OR HAS YOUR LEVEL OF IGNORANCE COMPELLED YOU TO BE SO RUDE AS TO BRING UP SUCH A ABHORRENT ACT, OH I FORGOT WHO I AM DEALING WITH.
PEE IN PUBLIC? INDICATED THAT HAVE NO SHAME, AT THE KA"ABA INDICATES YOUR COMPLETE LACK OF ETTIQUETTE AND AS FAR AS YES OR NO GOES YOU COMPEL ME TO SAY NO I WOULD NOT DO SUCH A FITHY ACT IN PUBLIC< WOULD YOU YES OR NO ANSWER ONLY.
Of course I wouldn't do it at the Kaaba or another riot would likely ensue, and another 402 "pilgrims" might be killed and another 649 of Mohammed's satan-filled madcap followers wounded - by each other.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987_Mecca_Massacre#Demonstrations
I'm a part time farmer as well as other business that takes me outdoors. Sometimes my activities take me to places where toilets are not readily available. Peeing outdoors isn't unusual for men that get outdoors - even a little. Sometimes when I am outdoors I pee on rocks or gravel. Maybe you were raised to be like a girl.
So why don't you stop avoiding the subject, pretending my point was in regard to etiquette at the pagan's Kaaba. Perhaps rephrasing the question, to avoid another child-like exegesis of my point, will help put you back on track.
If I were outdoors, and out of everyone's sight, and I had to pee, and the Quraish black stone idol were right there on the ground in front of me, and I knew it was the Quraish black stone idol, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to pee on the Quraish black stone idol any more than I would any other stone that was in front of me.
How about you?
I HAVE READ THE SCRIPTURES AND STORIES OF THE PROPHETS AND THE LIFE OF JESUS IN DETAIL AND HAVE BEEN A MUSLIM FOR ALL MY LIFE AND NEVER DID I TAKE NOTE OF THE BLACK STONE OR HEAR ANY MUSLIM SAY< OR REFER TO THE BLACKS STONE AS AN OBJECT OF REVERENCE NOR DID I EVER THINK OF IT OR HEAR ANY MUSLIM LECTURE OR READ ANYTHING YOU ARE SAYING ABOUT IT. PLEASE STOP YOUR CONFOUNDING IGNORANCE!!! IT IS DETRIMENTAL TO YOUR SPIRITUAL WELL_BEING
I AM SADDENED BY THE LEVEL OF YOUR IGNORANCE AND I AM SHOCKED AT THE STATE OF MIND YOU ARE IN,
LET ME INTRODUCE YOU TO ALLAH
So from what you are saying I can conclude that you, like me, wouldn't hesitate for a moment to pee on the Quraish's black stone idol?
Simple yes or no will do.
FIRSTLY THERE IS NO YES OR NO TO ABSURDITY, ARE YOU MAD? OR HAS YOUR LEVEL OF IGNORANCE COMPELLED YOU TO BE SO RUDE AS TO BRING UP SUCH A ABHORRENT ACT, OH I FORGOT WHO I AM DEALING WITH.
PEE IN PUBLIC? INDICATED THAT HAVE NO SHAME, AT THE KA"ABA INDICATES YOUR COMPLETE LACK OF ETTIQUETTE AND AS FAR AS YES OR NO GOES YOU COMPEL ME TO SAY NO I WOULD NOT DO SUCH A FITHY ACT IN PUBLIC< WOULD YOU YES OR NO ANSWER ONLY.
Of course I wouldn't do it at the Kaaba or another riot would likely ensue, and another 402 "pilgrims" might be killed and another 649 of Mohammed's satan-filled madcap followers wounded - by each other.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987_Mecca_Massacre#Demonstrations
I'm a part time farmer as well as other business that takes me outdoors. Sometimes my activities take me to places where toilets are not readily available. Peeing outdoors isn't unusual for men that get outdoors - even a little. Sometimes when I am outdoors I pee on rocks or gravel. Maybe you were raised to be like a girl.
So why don't you stop avoiding the subject, pretending my point was in regard to etiquette at the pagan's Kaaba. Perhaps rephrasing the question, to avoid another child-like exegesis of my point, will help put you back on track.
If I were outdoors, and out of everyone's sight, and I had to pee, and the Quraish black stone idol were right there on the ground in front of me, and I knew it was the Quraish black stone idol, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to pee on the Quraish black stone idol any more than I would any other stone that was in front of me.
How about you?
AGAIN ARE YOU JUST SO USED TO BEING ABSURD THAT ALL DECENCY ESCAPES YOU?
WOULD PEE ON MAN MADE IMAGE (A PICTURE) OF JESUS (WE KNOW ITS A SKETCH AND A PIECE OF PAPER AND NOT REALLY JESUS)
I HAVE READ THE SCRIPTURES AND STORIES OF THE PROPHETS AND THE LIFE OF JESUS IN DETAIL AND HAVE BEEN A MUSLIM FOR ALL MY LIFE AND NEVER DID I TAKE NOTE OF THE BLACK STONE OR HEAR ANY MUSLIM SAY< OR REFER TO THE BLACKS STONE AS AN OBJECT OF REVERENCE NOR DID I EVER THINK OF IT OR HEAR ANY MUSLIM LECTURE OR READ ANYTHING YOU ARE SAYING ABOUT IT. PLEASE STOP YOUR CONFOUNDING IGNORANCE!!! IT IS DETRIMENTAL TO YOUR SPIRITUAL WELL_BEING
I AM SADDENED BY THE LEVEL OF YOUR IGNORANCE AND I AM SHOCKED AT THE STATE OF MIND YOU ARE IN,
LET ME INTRODUCE YOU TO ALLAH
So from what you are saying I can conclude that you, like me, wouldn't hesitate for a moment to pee on the Quraish's black stone idol?
Simple yes or no will do.
FIRSTLY THERE IS NO YES OR NO TO ABSURDITY, ARE YOU MAD? OR HAS YOUR LEVEL OF IGNORANCE COMPELLED YOU TO BE SO RUDE AS TO BRING UP SUCH A ABHORRENT ACT, OH I FORGOT WHO I AM DEALING WITH.
PEE IN PUBLIC? INDICATED THAT HAVE NO SHAME, AT THE KA"ABA INDICATES YOUR COMPLETE LACK OF ETTIQUETTE AND AS FAR AS YES OR NO GOES YOU COMPEL ME TO SAY NO I WOULD NOT DO SUCH A FITHY ACT IN PUBLIC< WOULD YOU YES OR NO ANSWER ONLY.
Of course I wouldn't do it at the Kaaba or another riot would likely ensue, and another 402 "pilgrims" might be killed and another 649 of Mohammed's satan-filled madcap followers wounded - by each other.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987_Mecca_Massacre#Demonstrations
I'm a part time farmer as well as other business that takes me outdoors. Sometimes my activities take me to places where toilets are not readily available. Peeing outdoors isn't unusual for men that get outdoors - even a little. Sometimes when I am outdoors I pee on rocks or gravel. Maybe you were raised to be like a girl.
So why don't you stop avoiding the subject, pretending my point was in regard to etiquette at the pagan's Kaaba. Perhaps rephrasing the question, to avoid another child-like exegesis of my point, will help put you back on track.
If I were outdoors, and out of everyone's sight, and I had to pee, and the Quraish black stone idol were right there on the ground in front of me, and I knew it was the Quraish black stone idol, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to pee on the Quraish black stone idol any more than I would any other stone that was in front of me.
How about you?
AGAIN ARE YOU JUST SO USED TO BEING ABSURD THAT ALL DECENCY ESCAPES YOU?
WOULD PEE ON MAN MADE IMAGE (A PICTURE) OF JESUS (WE KNOW ITS A SKETCH AND A PIECE OF PAPER AND NOT REALLY JESUS)
The reason you refuse to answer the question is because you know you lied about Mohammed's followers reverence for the Quraish black stone idol.
So for the benefit of those Muslim read-only participants spectating your nonsense, and seeking the truth, let's exegete the term "venerate".
Venerate
1 : to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference
The picture of the poor satanically consumed, Quraish black stone idol kisser below, belies Mujaheed's foolish declarations quoted above. The poor fellow in the photo spent a pile of money traveling to Mecca (that could have otherwise fed poor people, like those that Muslims are murdering in Africa), in order to march around the kaaba 7 times, just as the pagan moon god worshipers did before Mohammed, back when Mohammed's occult practicing uncle ran the show.
2 : to honor (as an icon or a relic) ..............
The term "relic" perfectly describes the Quraish black stone idol.
with a ritual act ......
It would the height of ignorance, for any Muslim to deny they participate in a ritual act, since it is the 5th pillar of Islam. The Hajj is obligatory for Muslims.
Even Roman Catholics aren't REQUIRED to venerate their objects.
Muslims are required to participate in the same ritual act of circumambulation of the Kaaba, that Mohammed adopted, and then adapted to Islam, to keep the pagans in his game.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#tawaf
The same pagan Arabian jinn-demon worshiping ritual act of the Sa'ee as well - that is, running back and forth between Safa and Marwah 7 times.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah
....... of devotion
And just as you yourself said Mohammed's followers kiss the stone because Mohammed did.
Purely as a display of devotion to the false prophet Mohammed.
You're not fooling anybody here, my friend.
(http://ivarfjeld.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/42553621_mashaalap416.jpg)
You forgot to mention that the act is insignificant and does not have any impact on belief at all, it is a ritual, that is not obligatory on anyone NOT FARD
WHO CARES IF THE IS OR ISNT PROOF FOR MAKKAH?
WHAT ABOUT THE FLOODS IN MAKKAH,
IT IS A VALLEY THAT HAS RECURRING FLOODS, IT IS WASHED CLEAN EVER SO OFTEN SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME
GOOGLE THE YOU TUBE VIDEOS ON THE FLLODS TO SE THE SEVERITY
AGAIN, THANK YOU PETER FOR THE PIC OF THE FLOODED KA"BA reminded me to tell you that ALLAH KEEPS HIS OWN HOUSE CLEAN.
You forgot to mention that the act is insignificant and does not have any impact on belief at all, it is a ritual, that is not obligatory on anyone NOT FARD
Interesting characterization of the 5th pillar of Islam.
You and I both know what would happen if you shouted that on the streets of Mecca!WHO CARES IF THE IS OR ISNT PROOF FOR MAKKAH?
You don't, but every Muslim should, since it demonstrates that all the 7th and 8th century created Mohammedan fiction,
about Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael ever having been in a non-existent city, is pure poppycock.
It means that the city that Mohammedans bow toward 5 times a day, and travel to, is nothing more than a 7th and 8th century created fictional farce.
http://www.historyofmecca.com/
It means that Islamic rituals are nothing more than thinly repackaged pagan Arabian moon, sun, star and jinn-demon worship, just as some of Mohammed's own followers observed in his day.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah
And as clearly evidence by this thread. And I would like to thank you for your participation.
I WAS NOT REFERRING TO HAJJ AS AN INSIGNIFICANT ACT BUT THE KISSING OF THE BLACK STONE, PEOPLE KISS THE BLACK STONE WHEN THEY CAN, IT IS NOT REQUIRED OF ANYONE TO DO SO AND DOES NOT IMPACT ON BELIEF AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BELIEF IN GOD!!!
.... PEOPLE GO ASTRAY....
I WAS NOT REFERRING TO HAJJ AS AN INSIGNIFICANT ACT BUT THE KISSING OF THE BLACK STONE, PEOPLE KISS THE BLACK STONE WHEN THEY CAN, IT IS NOT REQUIRED OF ANYONE TO DO SO AND DOES NOT IMPACT ON BELIEF AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BELIEF IN GOD!!!
But the subject was VENERATION of the black stone, not kissing it. Sometimes it is too crowded to kiss the stone.
But being required to point to it on each time around it, is intended to demonstrate the same reverential respect for Mohammed's kissing of the Quraish black stone idol.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1906.msg8066#msg8066
We both did a thorough job of presenting our cases. Again thank you for your participation as I have no doubt that our chat will help many of Mohammed's followers see, and thereby overcome, Mohammed's repackaged Quraish paganism.
REALLY, the more you post the more people are becoming Muslim, due to the profound lack of knowledge you have of basic principles of Belief in GOD. YOUR LIES AND UNFOUNDED REMARKS are just what the readers need to pick up a book and start reading up on Islam and ABOUT 70 000 to 80000 Americans walk into MASJIDS IN AMERICA AND BECOME MUSLIM, due to reading up on whether islam is such a terrible religion, MOST FIND THAT IT IS COMPLETELY MISCONSTRUED BY MAILY IGNORANT BIASED BIGOTS.... PEOPLE GO ASTRAY....
Indeed. That's why the world is warned.
YOU MEAN THAT IS WHY GOD WARNED THE WORLD, PEOPLE MAKING UP THERE OWN PROPHESIES LIKE ELLIS SKOLLFIELD< SPEAKING ILL OF MEN OF GOD< SLANDERING ENTIRE NATIONS THAT HOUSE ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE< BUT HIS LIMITED INTELLECTUAL ABILITY TO GRASP SCRIPTURE HAS MADE HIM A SELF STYLED PROPHET
SHEEP IN WOLVES CLOTHES 9HE DOES NOT STATE HE IS A PROPHET BUT TRIES TO WRITE AND ACT LIKE ONE)
Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
ELLIS SKOLLFIELD< THE END TIME< MARK OF THE BEAST PROPHECIES? WHAT ARE THEY SLANDER OF ENTIRE NATIONS?
But Mohammed even came as a ravening wolf - without the sheep's clothing.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=53.0
THAT IS RIGHT, NO Pretense, no trying to please pagan worshippers, stating the truth directly even if the whole world was against him.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where THE BEAST (http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=12.0) and THE FALSE PROPHET [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
THAT IS RIGHT, NO Pretense, no trying to please pagan worshippers, stating the truth directly even if the whole world was against him.
THAT IS RIGHT, NO Pretense, no trying to please pagan worshippers, stating the truth directly even if the whole world was against him.
As obviously evidenced by your bowing toward the Quraish's black stone idol 5 times a day.
I BOW DOWN TO NONE BUT THE CREATOR .....
I BOW DOWN TO NONE BUT THE CREATOR .....
You have only been deceived into believing you do.
YHWH doesn't inhabit a pagan Arabian black box in Mecca that is "washed" with sewage.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1906.msg8076#msg8076
http://www.historyofmecca.com/resources.htm
SO GOD IS NOT EVERYWHERE ACCORDING TO YOUR BIASED DIMWITTED NARROW MINDED KNOWLEDGE, GOD IS ONLY WHERE YOU SAY HE IS
Sigh. Again, why do you suppose that about 1 out of every 9 verses in Mohammed's "revelations" regard consequences?
The answer is so Satan could scare you into rejecting YHWH to follow Mohammed. To scare you into bowing toward the very same black box that the pagan Arabians worshiped at. Mohammed's followers even today, squandering money that could otherwise feed the poor, on flying to Mecca and venerating the Quraish's black stone idol, by circumambulating the kaaba just like the pagan Arabian moon god worshipers did. Running back and forth between Safa and Marwah like the Arabian jinn-demon worshipers did.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah
Scared into copying the pagan Arabians, despite the absence of historical or archaeological evidence that suggests that the kaaba ever existed, before pagan Yemeni immigrants built it in the early 5th century for moon, sun, star and jinn-demon worship. And all the while not even seeming to notice, that you do that 1200 kilometers away from THE Holy Land, around a sewage washed pagan black box.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1906.msg8076#msg8076
Sigh. Again, why do you suppose that about 1 out of every 9 verses in Mohammed's "revelations" regard consequences?YOU REPEAT YOUR LIES SO EASILY WITHOUT AN PROOF WAHTSOVER, WITHOUT CITING A SINGLE VERSE FROM THE QURAN!!!!
The answer is so Satan could scare you into rejecting YHWH to follow Mohammed. To scare you into bowing toward the very same black box that the pagan Arabians worshiped at. Mohammed's followers even today, squandering money that could otherwise feed the poor, on flying to Mecca and venerating the Quraish's black stone idol, by circumambulating the kaaba just like the pagan Arabian moon god worshipers did. Running back and forth between Safa and Marwah like the Arabian jinn-demon worshipers did.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah
Sigh. Again, why do you suppose that about 1 out of every 9 verses in Mohammed's "revelations" regard consequences?YOU REPEAT YOUR LIES SO EASILY WITHOUT AN PROOF WAHTSOVER, WITHOUT CITING A SINGLE VERSE FROM THE QURAN!!!!
The answer is so Satan could scare you into rejecting YHWH to follow Mohammed. To scare you into bowing toward the very same black box that the pagan Arabians worshiped at. Mohammed's followers even today, squandering money that could otherwise feed the poor, on flying to Mecca and venerating the Quraish's black stone idol, by circumambulating the kaaba just like the pagan Arabian moon god worshipers did. Running back and forth between Safa and Marwah like the Arabian jinn-demon worshipers did.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah
Let's start with your non-specific accusation, then later we will cover the history and archaeology of Jesus, and your requested subject of the archaeology of Mecca, to split off into it's own thread.
1. Do Muslims bow toward the same black box that the pagan Arabians worshiped at?
2. Do Muslims fly to Mecca to circumambulate the kaaba and the black stone, that pagan Arabian moon god worshipers traveled to and circumambulated?
3. Do Muslims run back and forth between Al Safa and Al Marwah like the pagan Arabians did?
Yes or no - on each count
Don't think you will get away with changing the subject or posting a blizzard of dung or it will go straight to spam. Just answer the questions.
Sigh. Again, why do you suppose that about 1 out of every 9 verses in Mohammed's "revelations" regard consequences?YOU REPEAT YOUR LIES SO EASILY WITHOUT AN PROOF WAHTSOVER, WITHOUT CITING A SINGLE VERSE FROM THE QURAN!!!!
The answer is so Satan could scare you into rejecting YHWH to follow Mohammed. To scare you into bowing toward the very same black box that the pagan Arabians worshiped at. Mohammed's followers even today, squandering money that could otherwise feed the poor, on flying to Mecca and venerating the Quraish's black stone idol, by circumambulating the kaaba just like the pagan Arabian moon god worshipers did. Running back and forth between Safa and Marwah like the Arabian jinn-demon worshipers did.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah
Let's start with your non-specific accusation, then later we will cover the history and archaeology of Jesus, and your requested subject of the archaeology of Mecca, to split off into it's own thread.
1. Do Muslims bow toward the same black box that the pagan Arabians worshiped at?
2. Do Muslims fly to Mecca to circumambulate the kaaba and the black stone, that pagan Arabian moon god worshipers traveled to and circumambulated?
3. Do Muslims run back and forth between Al Safa and Al Marwah like the pagan Arabians did?
Yes or no - on each count
Don't think you will get away with changing the subject or posting a blizzard of dung or it will go straight to spam. Just answer the questions.
1, YES , proving that Muhammad did not invent anything new he came to correct who to worship JUST LIKE JESUS
2, Yes, again proof that Muhammad came to correct who to worship, WE DO IT FOR THE SAKE OF THE GOD OF JESUS
Sigh. Again, why do you suppose that about 1 out of every 9 verses in Mohammed's "revelations" regard consequences?YOU REPEAT YOUR LIES SO EASILY WITHOUT AN PROOF WAHTSOVER, WITHOUT CITING A SINGLE VERSE FROM THE QURAN!!!!
The answer is so Satan could scare you into rejecting YHWH to follow Mohammed. To scare you into bowing toward the very same black box that the pagan Arabians worshiped at. Mohammed's followers even today, squandering money that could otherwise feed the poor, on flying to Mecca and venerating the Quraish's black stone idol, by circumambulating the kaaba just like the pagan Arabian moon god worshipers did. Running back and forth between Safa and Marwah like the Arabian jinn-demon worshipers did.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah
Let's start with your non-specific accusation, then later we will cover the history and archaeology of Jesus, and your requested subject of the archaeology of Mecca, to split off into it's own thread.
1. Do Muslims bow toward the same black box that the pagan Arabians worshiped at?
2. Do Muslims fly to Mecca to circumambulate the kaaba and the black stone, that pagan Arabian moon god worshipers traveled to and circumambulated?
3. Do Muslims run back and forth between Al Safa and Al Marwah like the pagan Arabians did?
Yes or no - on each count
Don't think you will get away with changing the subject or posting a blizzard of dung or it will go straight to spam. Just answer the questions.
1, YES , proving that Muhammad did not invent anything new he came to correct who to worship JUST LIKE JESUS
2, Yes, again proof that Muhammad came to correct who to worship, WE DO IT FOR THE SAKE OF THE GOD OF JESUS
Regarding point #1 and #2, perhaps you can tell us where a tradition of traveling to Mecca - 1000 kilometers across harsh Arabian desert from the Holy Land, and circumambulating the kaaba 7 times, and kissing or pointing to the Quraish's black stone idol each time around - comes from other than the Arabian pagans who were engaged in that tradition before Mohammed.
WHERE IT COMES FROM IS IRRELEVANT JUST LIKE THE CONCEPT OF A MESSIAH is occurring in previous pagan religions is irrelevant and the concept of God manifesting in the flesh like the HINDUS worshipped in the same manner, ......
..... what is important is that you worship GOD as GOD wants you to as shown by all the Prophets of GOD.
I will not take the word of historians and Geographers and words according to but not by from Men that are neither Godfearing nor are they 100% certain of any of their facts other than broad outlines.
THE ACTIONS COME FROM MUHAMMAD, .....
...... who did it before is completely irrelavent, just like people who say they believe but say that the commands of God does not have to be followed when the Prophets clearly tell you to follow the law.
JUST LIKE THE SCRIBES AND THE PHARISEES DID IN THE TIME OF JESUS DID>
The prophet Muhammad is not a liar, ....
.... nor did he retain a pagan idol, .......
........ nor did he instruct .......
....... reverence ......
....... for the black stone nor do we worship like the kafir (DISBELIEVERS) it is your own lack of understanding that leads you to these assumptions based on deviant scholars as I have proven over and over and over again.
I am not differing with the Book only where the book contradicts itself and I understand it to be scholars writing in there time for there time according to limited knowledge they had and subsequent translators interpreting the Bookaccording to their beliefs.
On the following links are three more Muslims that also seem to believe, that just because they say they don't venerate the Quraish's black stone idol, that somehow means they don't venerate that black stone. Even as the 5th pillar of Islam compels them to travel to it, and circumambulate it, as the pagan idol worshipers did before Mohammed.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1050.15
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1079.msg5931#msg5931
Even Roman Catholics aren't required to venerate their objects.
Additionally I just noticed: "I have not seen Allah's Apostle touching except the two Yemenite corners....." (Book #72, Hadith #742)
What "two Yemenite corners" do you suppose that would be referring to?
".....So the Prophet ordered his companions to do Ramal (i.e. fast walking) in the first three rounds of Tawaf around the Ka'ba and to walk in between the two corners (i.e. the black stone and the Yemenite corner)". (Book #59, Hadith #557)
Additionally I just noticed: "I have not seen Allah's Apostle touching except the two Yemenite corners....." (Book #72, Hadith #742)
What "two Yemenite corners" do you suppose that would be referring to?
".....So the Prophet ordered his companions to do Ramal (i.e. fast walking) in the first three rounds of Tawaf around the Ka'ba and to walk in between the two corners (i.e. the black stone and the Yemenite corner)". (Book #59, Hadith #557)
Hi everyone, I was way to busy over last few months to indulge in futile debates with blatantly arrogant misguided individuals who has no interest in hearing the truth.
The Blackstone and Kaba are not topics a deviant would understand.
its like explaining quantum physics to someone who is unable to pass matrix math.
Muslims believe in ALLAH and ALLAH has generously given Muslims that which no other religion has .......
...... (special prayers) SALAAH ........
...... and this is upsetting that 1.8 billion people could be so unified and have such huge symbols of faith that has been standing for almost 1500 years.
No religion has a place like the Kaaba or rituals like Hajj and Umrah or the Sallaah.
The perfection of the religion is one of the main attractions of people to Islam. It is all integrated, all the the rituals together with the place and the time and the season and the month.
kaaba and Black stone are not isolated incidental symbols bt rather enjoys a role in the greater scheme of Islam.
Something no other religion has!!!