Islam, Muslim / Christian Forum - Welcome All

Still crickets on this thread.

No. Preterism of false doctrine. I have no clue what replacement thing is either.

https://www.electionforum.org/government/blatant-censorship-google-search/

"The New Censorship

How did Google become the internet’s censor and master manipulator, blocking access to millions of websites?
Google, Inc., isn't just the world's biggest purveyor of information; it is also the world's biggest censor."

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2016-06-22/google-is-the-worlds-biggest-censor-and-its-power-must-be-regulated

"’The Creepy Line’ Documentary Explores How Google and Facebook Can Undermine Democracy

The new documentary The Creepy Line explores how the Masters of the Universe in Silicon Valley can utilize their platforms to suppress speech and undermine democracy — a topic of vital importance for elections in 2018, 2020, and beyond."

https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2018/10/22/the-creepy-line-documentary-highlights-the-influence-of-google-and-facebook/

https://www.newsmax.com/ChristieLeeMcNally/james-damore-google-bias/2017/08/08/id/806577/

https://www.bing.com/search?q=google%27s+blatant+bias+and+censorship&qs=n&form=QBRE&sp=-1&pq=google%27s+blatant+bias+and+censorship&sc=0-36&sk=&cvid=D638345B03AE4E3E953D6BC7EFD9DE2A

https://www.quora.com/From-where-did-Muhammad-come-up-with-his-denial-of-the-whole-subject-of-the-Gospel-having-denied-that-Christ-was-even-crucified/answer/Pete-Waldo-2

From where did Muhammad come up with his denial of the whole subject of the Gospel, having denied that Christ was even crucified?
http://www.petewaldo.com/simon_magnus_gnostics_ebionites_islam.htm#basilides
Pete Waldo, Study/teach eschatology for 25 years, much of it, full time.
Answered 50m ago

Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

From this verse Christians will immediately recognize that Muhammad denied the whole subject of the Gospel, which is the crucifixion, death, and resurrection of the sinless Messiah, the Prince of Peace, the spotless Lamb of God, who saves all from sin who have faith in His shed blood.

There has not been a Christian throughout the last nearly 2,000 years that has denied that Christ was crucified, because that is the basis of the whole subject of the Gospel, so if someone denied it they couldn’t be a Christian. However when we ask Muslims who did die on the cross we get nearly as many answers as Muhammad’s followers that we ask, ironically demonstrating that it is they that are “those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow”. WHO WAS CRUCIFIED?

So where does the chain of evidence lead us to understand how Muhammad came up with his denial of the whole subject of the Gospel in the first place? It all began here.

Enter..... Simon Magus (URL)

The following scriptures are constructive in helping us to understand mass psychology and the enemy's power to deceive.

Acts 8:5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them. 6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. 7 For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed [with them]: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed. 8 And there was great joy in that city. 9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one: 10 To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God. 11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.

Thus, before the disciples arrived, a whole city had been bewitched by Simon's sorcery, through which many became possessed by demons and unclean spirits. They believed they were serving God because Simon deceived them into believing he was of God - and even was God - but they were actually serving Satan, and his messengers. The same forces are overtly at work today in the "New Age" movement, and more covertly in other groups that have been deceived by the enemy into believing they worship the one true God. The scriptures continue

12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

So Simon believed, having witnessed the miracles that were performed, and he even got baptized. But let's see if just "believing in Jesus" as some claim to do, and even getting baptized as Simon did, assures our salvation.

14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then laid they [their] hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. 18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, 19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

Simon's attempted purchase of the things of the Spirit of God is where the term "simony" comes from.

20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. 21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.

We can see that though Simon "believed in Jesus", and was even baptized, he wasn't born again.

22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

It seems Simon was more interested in how much he could enhance his stature and income as a magician if he could perform the miracles the disciples were. Even though Simon "believed in Jesus", as some have been deceived into believing they do, Simon didn't receive a new heart because he remained unrepentant. Perhaps not so unlike those that had deceived themselves into believing they were once "Christians" that claim to have "converted" to other religions.

23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and [in] the bond of iniquity. 24 Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me. 25 And they, when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, returned to Jerusalem, and preached the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans.

Simon the Magician was eventually dubbed "the father of heresies" by our early church fathers, not only because he declared himself to be God, but because he began Gnostic doctrine that cults like the Ebionites later adopted and disseminated.

Early church father Irenaeus in "Against Heresies" begins this section with an exegesis of the same passage. (link to source)

Chapter XXIII.—Doctrines and practices of Simon Magus and Menander.

"This Simon, then—who feigned faith, supposing that the apostles themselves performed their cures by the art of magic, and not by the power of God; and with respect to their filling with the Holy Ghost, through the imposition of hands, those that believed in God through Him who was preached by them, namely, Christ Jesus—suspecting that even this was done through a kind of greater knowledge of magic, and offering money to the apostles, thought he, too, might receive this power of bestowing the Holy Spirit on whomsoever he would,—was addressed in these words by Peter: “Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God can be purchased with money: thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter, for thy heart is not right in the sight of God; for I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity."

Irenaeus continues regarding Simon after his unsuccessful attempt to purchase the Holy Spirit.....

"He then, not putting faith in God a whit the more, set himself eagerly to contend against the apostles, in order that he himself might seem to be a wonderful being, and applied himself with still greater zeal to the study of the whole magic art, that he might the better bewilder and overpower multitudes of men. Such was his procedure in the reign of Claudius Cæsar, by whom also he is said to have been honoured with a statue, on account of his magical power."

Thus Simon went on to become an even more famous magician.

"This man, then, was glorified by many as if he were a god; and he taught that it was himself who appeared among the Jews as the Son, but descended in Samaria as the Father while he came to other nations in the character of the Holy Spirit. He represented himself, in a word, as being the loftiest of all powers, that is, the Being who is the Father over all, and he allowed himself to be called by whatsoever title men were pleased to address him."

As a poser - as God - Simon taught the following view of the crucifixion.

"For since the angels ruled the world ill because each one of them coveted the principal power for himself, he [Jesus] had come to amend matters, and had descended, transfigured and assimilated to powers and principalities and angels, so that he might appear among men to be a man, while yet he was not a man; and that thus he was thought to have suffered in Judæa, when he had not suffered."

Simon suggesting that Jesus was "thought to have suffered in Judæa, when he had not suffered." Simon, through Satan's power, deceived multitudes. Just as multitudes are deceived in the world today.

This from Tertullian in "Against All Heresies"

"After him [Simon Magus] Menander, his disciple (likewise a magician), saying the same as Simon. Whatever Simon had affirmed himself to be, this did Menander equally affirm himself to be, asserting that none could possibly have salvation without being baptized in his name."

"Afterwards, again, followed Saturninus: he, too, affirming ..... that Christ had not existed in a bodily substance, and had endured a quasi-passion in a phantasmal shape merely; that a resurrection of the flesh there will by no means be."

Enter..... Basilides (URL)

"Afterwards broke out the heretic Basilides. He affirms that there is a supreme Deity, by name Abraxas .... there ensued infinite issues and processions of angels; that by these angels 365 heavens were formed ...."

You get the picture, and predictably, degenerating into worship of Satan himself.

"To these are added those heretics likewise who are called Ophites: for they magnify the serpent to such a degree, that they prefer him even to Christ Himself; for it was he, they say, who gave us the origin of the knowledge of good and of evil."

Let's get back to Irenaeus regarding Basilides on Jesus.

Chapter XXIV.—Doctrines of Saturninus and Basilides.

4. "He appeared, then, on earth as a man, to the nations of these powers, and wrought miracles. Wherefore he did not himself suffer death, but Simon, a certain man of Cyrene, being compelled, bore the cross in his stead; so that this latter being transfigured by him, that he might be thought to be Jesus, was crucified, through ignorance and error, while Jesus himself received the form of Simon, and, standing by, laughed at them."

(link to source) Does that read just like Muhammad's followers various accounts?

Here are just a couple of the many versions I have collected in which the all caps emphases were theirs.

[[["A Muslim believes what Allah told in the Quran that He raised Jesus unto Himself and that they didn't crucify nor kill him for sure, but so it appeared to them. This is the main point, the rest are details ... some scholars said another person was on the cross, may be the one who betrayed Jesus. But we know that God had a plan and didn't allow them to kill Jesus Peace be upon him."

We can see Muhammad's followers are not interested in WHO WAS crucified, because they are filled with complete resolve, to DENY the whole subject of the Gospel. Here's another.....

"Jesus himself was ..... watching soldiers hanging the WRONG MAN and he was Laughing. If the one on the Cross was Jesus, then why was he laughing for pain?"]]]

Even the switching faces detail! It seems we found the mystery man replacement on the cross that eluded those poor tragically deceived followers of Muhammad!

Over the last nearly 2,000 years there has never been a single CHRISTIAN that has denied the crucifixion, death and resurrection of the Lamb of God. Nor is there a sect of Judaism that does not believe that Jesus was killed in the first century. While Christians and Jews are in complete resolve as to WHO WAS killed, we can see from Muhammad’s followers various accounts that "...those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow...".

So Muhammad's suggestion that it only appeared that Christ was crucified, and his later followers suggestion that Christ exchanged Himself with someone else that suffered instead, was born of a first century sorcerer named Simon Magnus dubbed the "father of heresies". A man that tried to buy the Holy Spirit, and bewitched people into believing that he was God, succeeded by a disciple of his named Basilides, who embellished Simon's blasphemy with the more explicit detail of substution on the cross. The succession of these Gnostics eventually inspiring others to "...magnify the serpent to such a degree, that they prefer him even to Christ Himself...".

So is it a surprise to find Muhammad's followers driven by a spirit

that causes them to "contend against the apostles" just as Simon the Sorcerer did? Following a false prophet that filled them with complete resolve as to what to DISbelieve and DENY. To REJECT the very blood of the Lamb of God that would save them.

Some Muslims protest that "Allah" wouldn't let his "messengers" get hurt, but that flies in the face of not only the martyrdom of Jesus Christ and His prophets, apostles, disciples and witnesses, but of the Quran itself.

Sura 2.61 ....and killed the prophets wrongfully.

Ah, but wait a minute! Muhammad wasn't born until 400 years after Simon the Sorcerer, so how could he have known about his Gnostic doctrine of DISbelief in Jesus' crucifixion, and substitution, that Muhammad's followers cling to so tenaciously today?

Enter..... the second century occult cult of the Ebionites

(URL) Muhammad went into a suicidal funk in which he wanted to throw himself off a mountain because his "revelations" had ceased. Like the one in which a spirit appeared to him as an "angel of light" in a cave.

2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Muhammad knew it was a demon that met him in the cave, but Khadijah talked him out of it. It was Muhammad's wife Khadijah that provided the remedy.

Quoting a paper from - first-language Arabic - Dr. Rafat Amari's 20 year full-time study of Arabia and Islam, "Occultism in the family of Muhammad" .....

"Khadijah, the first wife of Mohammed, came from a family of prominent occult leaders. Among them we mentioned Ruchieh, a Kahineh of Jinn-devils at Mecca. Ruchieh was the sister of Waraqa ibn Naufal,[xxvii][27] the Ebionite occult priest who was the cousin of Khadijah."

"After the negative experiences which depressed Mohammed, Khadijah sent him to her cousin, Waraqa, to convince him that Mohammed was called to be a prophet of Allah. Waraqa succeeded in his task and became responsible for most of the Qur’anic verses at the beginning. Waraqa inserted Ebionite doctrines about Jesus in the Qur’an, stating that Jesus was a prophet, and that He was not crucified, but God made someone to resemble Jesus. That one was crucified because the crowd thought he was Jesus. This doctrine was first initiated by Simon, the magician from Samaria, who later founded a heresy which took his name, Simonianism. In reality, Simon created the root for such doctrine, before it was developed by the Gnostics in later times. Here, I present Simon the magician’s idea about Jesus, which Hyppolytus reported in “The Refutation of all heresies”:

"Jesus Christ being transformed, and being assimilated to the rulers and powers and angels, came for the restoration (of things). And so (it was that Jesus) appeared as man, when in reality he was not a man. And (so it was) that likewise he suffered, though not actually undergoing suffering, but appearing to the Jews to do so."

(link to paper) Christians that have had any experience in discussion with Muslims on YouTube will recognize that they could for the most part, insert "Muslims" in place of "Ebionites", in this Wikipedia paragraph on the Ebionites.

"The majority of Church Fathers agree that the Ebionites rejected many of the precepts central to Nicene orthodoxy, such as his pre-existence, divinity, virgin birth, atoning death, and physical resurrection.[5] The Ebionites are described as emphasizing the oneness of God and the humanity of Jesus as the biological son of both Mary and Joseph, who by virtue of his righteousness, was chosen by God to be the messianic "prophet like Moses" (foretold in Deuteronomy 18:14–22) when he was anointed with the Holy Spirit at his baptism.[4][59] Origen (Contra Celsum 5.61)[60] and Eusebius (Historia Ecclesiastica 3.27.3) recognize some variation in the Christology of Ebionite groups; for example that while all Ebionites denied Christ's pre-existence there was a sub-group which did not deny the virgin birth.[61]" (link to Wikipedia article)

“And that”, as Paul Harvey would say, “is the rest of the story”.

https://nypost.com/2018/01/27/radical-imams-are-spewing-anti-semitism-in-the-us-with-impunity/

"Radical imams are spewing anti-Semitism in the US with impunity

Muslim clerics are threatening the lives of Jews from the pulpits of American mosques, and they are doing it with virtual impunity, say former US law-enforcement officials who worry that the rhetoric could lead to violent attacks.

Over the past six months, at least five prominent US imams have been caught on tape preaching violence against Jews in sermons at mosques across America.

Yet these radical preachers inciting anti-Semitic violence aren’t prosecuted or even permanently banished by the leadership of their mosques.

“It’s outrageous they aren’t immediately removed and investigated for what may be solicitation [to commit a crime of violence],” was the view of veteran FBI Special Agent John Guandolo, who now runs a counterterrorism consulting firm, Understanding the Threat LLC.

Jewish people already are disproportionately targeted for hate crimes in America, but recent sermons could fan the flames of anti-Semitism. In November, the FBI released new data showing there were more Jewish victims of anti-religious hate crimes in 2016 (the last reported year) than victims of all other religious groups combined."

much more
https://nypost.com/2018/01/27/radical-imams-are-spewing-anti-semitism-in-the-us-with-impunity/