Author Topic: The Bible on Baptism  (Read 6899 times)

Peter

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The Bible on Baptism
« on: July 25, 2008, 06:27:15 PM »
Jesus was clear enough on baptism and in the same breath saying to observe what he taught and commanded:

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

That is how the Gospel of Matthew closes. Clear enough.

After the renouncing Satan and His angels etc. and when ready, to cover all the bases one might say "You are hereby baptized in the name of the Father Yahewh, and of His Son Jesus Christ Yeshua and the Holy Ghost."

How do Jesus' instructions suggest to baptize in Jesus name only?
 
Through the same kind of proof texting error that causes folks to misconstrue scripture to believing that speaking in "tongues" is the only way to know one is saved. A visit to one of their churches may well illuminate this.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/man_of_sin_revealed.htm

The United Pnetecostal Church is a 20th century church. If they are right, then the church has been wrong for 1900 years.

1Cr 12:4   Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Cr 12:5  And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Cr 12:6  And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
1Cr 12:7  But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Cr 12:8  For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Cr 12:9  To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Cr 12:10  To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another [divers] kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1Cr 12:11  But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Pete

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Re: The Bible on Baptism
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2008, 09:29:18 AM »
2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4  And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Truth can never be told so as to be understood and not be believed. ~ William Blake
Please visit: http://www.beholdthebeast.com/
http://www.israelinbibleprophecy.com/
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/

resistingrexmundi

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Re: The Bible on Baptism
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2009, 12:20:49 PM »
I think the subject that should be emphasized here is the intent of the heart and not the tradition. Saying that you must be baptized in the name of Jesus and unless this has specifically happened you are not saved is contradictive of what Jesus preached. It is the intent of your heart that God is interested in not your tradition. So it would be right to say that if you were baptized to show death to sin and rebirth to Christ you need not concern yourself with mans' doctrine.

God bless
Doth that man love his Lord who would be willing to see Jesus wearing a crown of thorns, while for himself he craves a chaplet of laurel? Shall Jesus ascend to his throne by the cross, and do we expect to be carried there on the shoulders of applauding crowds? Charles H. Spurgeon

Eric Chambers

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Re: The Bible on Baptism
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2009, 01:59:12 AM »
I think the subject that should be emphasized here is the intent of the heart and not the tradition. Saying that you must be baptized in the name of Jesus and unless this has specifically happened you are not saved is contradictive of what Jesus preached. It is the intent of your heart that God is interested in not your tradition. So it would be right to say that if you were baptized to show death to sin and rebirth to Christ you need not concern yourself with mans' doctrine.

God bless

Hi first post here on the forums and I appreciate your point of view. I agree with you that traditions should not make up how things are accomplished in the churches. However, with that being said, we know that we must be baptized for even Y'shua(Jesus) was baptized by John the Baptist.  What does come into play is how you believe. According to the scripture, Y'shua told his disciples in Matthew 28 : 18-20 : (18) And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. (19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. (20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen

Y'shua was on occasion accused of calling himself the Messiah and God. This is recorded in the gospels. Once we understand that Y'shua was given the name which was above EVERY name including God then we can see that Y'shua was indeed God, the Bible clearly states that he was God made manifest in the flesh. The disciples understood what Y'shua was teaching to them. So it is very important that we baptize correctly. This is not done by sprinkling, but by complete submersion. We are buried in his likeness and raised in his resurrection. Y'shua told his disciples to baptize them in THE NAME OF.....there is only one name under heaven by which men are saved....that name is Y'shua(Jesus)!!! PRAISE GOD! So the correct way to baptize is in the name of Y'shua. Plain and simple.

I am sure that you probably already know that, but from your statement it appears that you are saying as long as you are following the statement that you must be baptized that it does not matter how it is done as long as you do it. If that is the case I would have to disagree with you because clearly Y'shua tells us how to do it. We should not follow doctrine, denominations and religions but more so we should do what Y'shua has told us to do. In Matthew he clearly states to baptize in the name of. Y'shua is (D) all of the above so in the name of Y'shua(Jesus) is indeed the correct way.

Looking forward to your response...

God bless,


Peter

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Re: The Bible on Baptism
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2009, 08:30:37 AM »
Hi Eric and welcome to the forum! :)
So I take it you are a Jesus only, or oneness Pentecostal?

Peter

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Re: The Bible on Baptism
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2009, 08:51:35 AM »
The disciples understood what Y'shua was teaching to them. So it is very important that we baptize correctly.

Or what? We're condemned?
God excludes you from His kingdom because you poured over rather than immersed?

Eric Chambers

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Re: The Bible on Baptism
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2009, 05:06:10 PM »
Peter,

I was raised in the UPCI org...however I don't claim a religion nor a denomination. I am a follower of Y'shua. Baptism is an ordinance and it must be followed. Y'shua told Nicodemus that we could not enter the kingdom of heaven unless we were born again. Being born again means following exactly what Y'shua taught. He taught baptism by immersion. It says in the Bible that Y'shua walked straight way out of the water. Matt 3:16 -And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo the heavens were opened unto hi, and he saw the Spirt of god descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

We all know that the custom of that day when baptism was given that that complete immersed in water. This is an item that has been discussed through the ages and to be honest, sprinkling someone or just pouring water over their head is not baptism. The bible says that we are buried in his death and raised in his resurrection. If that is the case, there is no room for sprinkling nor pouring. Baptism is accomplished by immersion. *If* you believe in sprinkling or pouring then that is between you and God. I am not hear to judge, I am only a humble servant following the commandments of God. God said to baptize.

Baptize = To dip(under) or immerse. Sprinkling was brought on by the evil roman catholic church and that era. A lot of our Bible translation was lost because of them.

However you feel is following Gods commandments is how you feel. I chose to immerse.


To answer the last question, again I do not belong to a religion nor denomination. I believe in but 1 true living God. John 1:1 says, In the beginning was the Word(Y'shua) and the Word(Y'shua) was with God and the Word(Y'shua) was God.  Colossians 2:9 says for in him(Y'shua) dwelleth the fullness of the Godhead Bodily.  There is no room for our interpretation here. Y'shua upon many occasions was about stoned to death because he claimed to be the Messiah and God. Y'shua was given a name that was above ALL names, this included the name of God. How could this be? How could he be given a name above all names if he was just a son? Y'shua was GOD MADE MANIFEST IN THE FLESH. God came to earth in the form of a servant and he called himself Y'shua. It was a name that was above every name and it was the final name that God gave his people. It is the only name under heaven that ALL MEN are saved.  There is no 3 people. God was never human except when he came in a servant form to earth. He is a spirit. Y'shua was human then became spirit. The Holy Ghost has NEVER been human and never been a person and therefore is a spirit. There is but one living God. His name is well whatever you want to call him. God, Jesus, Holy Ghost. When you say God you mean Jesus, when you say Jesus you mean God, when you say God you mean Holy Ghost and so on. There might have been the deity but it was done to teach us and as long as you have the spirit of God, because those that worship must worship in Spirit and in Truth, then you will understand it. THERE IS BUT 1 LIVING GOD. Period.


Peter

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Re: The Bible on Baptism
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2009, 08:54:33 AM »
Baptize = To dip(under) or immerse. Sprinkling was brought on by the evil roman catholic church and that era. A lot of our Bible translation was lost because of them.

This is untrue. The example of pour-over three times is found in the Didache, which most scholars date to late first or early second century. Long before the Roman Church.

Peter

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Re: The Bible on Baptism
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2009, 09:04:57 AM »
Peter,

I was raised in the UPCI org...however I don't claim a religion nor a denomination.

The reason I asked is because you recognized this scripture

According to the scripture, Y'shua told his disciples in Matthew 28 : 18-20 : (18) And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. (19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

And then after a bunch of words you changed it, and reduced it to this:

So the correct way to baptize is in the name of Y'shua. Plain and simple.

It seems you may have left the UPC, but the UPC hasn't left you.
You presume to teach on baptism, even as you recognize and then abandon the most clearly detailed description of what is to be said, in scripture.

Peter

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Re: The Bible on Baptism
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2010, 09:01:03 AM »
I think the subject that should be emphasized here is the intent of the heart and not the tradition. Saying that you must be baptized in the name of Jesus and unless this has specifically happened you are not saved is contradictive of what Jesus preached. It is the intent of your heart that God is interested in not your tradition. So it would be right to say that if you were baptized to show death to sin and rebirth to Christ you need not concern yourself with mans' doctrine.

God bless

Thank you. The most important point here.
For men to say we are saved technically, by doctrine, begins bondage such as that of the Roman Church.

Peter

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Re: The Bible on Baptism
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2010, 10:57:20 AM »
Were folks that lived in places like the Wilderness of Paran condemned because they couldn't be immersed in baptism?