Author Topic: 16 - THE LAST TRUMPET  (Read 5656 times)

Peter

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16 - THE LAST TRUMPET
« on: May 04, 2010, 01:11:37 PM »
16 - THE LAST TRUMPET

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CHAPTER 16

When thou art in tribulation,
and all these things are come upon thee,
even in the latter days,
if thou turn to the LORD thy God,
and shalt be obedient unto His voice;
(For the LORD thy God is a merciful God)
He will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee,
nor forget the covenant of thy fathers
which He sware unto them..
DEUTERONOMY 4:30-31

But we are all going to be raptured out before the real bad times
come, right? Let's make a little agreement between you, the Lord,
and me. Let's take all our commentaries and set them aside for a
while. Then let's take the Bible, and only the Bible, and see what
it has to tell us about the final sequence of events.

Please be patient with me for making this a kind of nit-picking
chapter. The I's are dotted and the T's are crossed because if the
Scripture verses quoted below really mean what they say, then ALL
of our current end-time  ideas will need  rethinking. Let's begin
with a quote that is familiar to almost every Christian:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven
with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the
trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:  Then
we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together
with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so
shall we ever be with the Lord.

 Last Trumpet 179

All agree that those verses refer to the so-called "rapture" of the
Church.1 In fact, 1 Th 4:16-17 is one of the central passages in
Scripture that supports the physical return of the Lord Jesus to
this Earth. Note the WE. Paul was speaking to the Church of which
he was part and we have every scriptural reason to believe that we
also includes us. You and I and the rest of the church are the WE
of 1 Th 4:16-17. That.s relatively simple, isn't it?

Also note that Jesus is returning with the .trumpet of God..
Now the Bible is full of trumpets, including seven in Revelation, so
the next  logical question  is  this: Which biblical  trumpet  is  this
one? Of all the trumpets in the Bible, at which one is the Church
taken to be with the Lord?

1 Corinthians 15:51-52  Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all
sleep,  but  we  shall  all  be  changed,  In  a moment,  in  the
twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall
sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we
shall be changed.2

Ah, and there it is, the last trumpet!  We are taken to be with
the Lord at the last trumpet. That trumpet is singular, so no other
trumpets are blown with it. Also, there are no modifiers such as,
"except the trumpets of  judgment," or "except the trumpets in
Revelation." That needs to be emphasized:

There are NO exceptions! Not one Bible trumpet is left out!
________________________________  

1  "Rapture" is in quotes because the author does not find the return of the Lord for
the saints so characterized anywhere in Scripture. It is believed to have come from
the Latin Vulgate's "raptao" in reference to this event. By definition, the word "ra-
pture" seems more suitable for the mystery religions than it does for sober Chris-
tians looking forward to the most awesome event in all history, the return of Jesus.
The whole  "Rapture"  concept  may  have  been  brought  into  the  church  by  the
publicists of Margaret Macdonald's vision. See Dave MacPherson, The Rapture Plot,
(Simpsonville, SC, Millennium III)
2 Compare this 1Co quote with the 1Th quote above it. In both, the dead in Christ
are raised, and in both, trumpets are blown. Notice also that there are three more
we's. Here is the point: If the we Paul was speaking of in 1Th 4:17 includes us, then
so do the we's in 1Co 15:51-52. Believe it or not, there are those who claim that
1Th 4:16-17 is for the Church, while 1Co 15:52 is for the great tribulation saints.
Nonsense! There are we's in both passages! Either both verses are for us, or neither
are. We can't go arbitrarily picking through the we's in the Bible on the basis of
some doctrine we wish to defend.
__________________________________

 180  The False Prophet

 GRAPH NUMBER 20



Recognizing that the church will be taken to be with the Lord
at the one and only last trumpet of all time simplifies a doctrinal
point the Church has been arguing about for over 100 years.

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was
not since the beginning of the world to this time.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days ...
the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Matthew 24:31  And he shall send his angels with a great sound
of a trumpet [a great trumpet, NASB], and they shall gather
together  his  elect  from  the  four winds,  from  one  end  of
heaven to the other.

Note the sequence of events:

(1) Tribulation.
(2) After the tribulation.
(3) Great trumpet.

 Last Trumpet 181

So  isn't  it  obvious  that  the  last  trumpet  comes  after  the
tribulation?1 Sure, and since the church is taken up at the last
trumpet, the only way to defend the pre-trib rapture is to rewrite
Scripture and put verse 31 before verse 21.  2

 No matter what our doctrines may have been in the past, the
Bible states that our trumpet is the last, and the last trumpet does
not  blow  until  Rev  11:15,  after  the  six  other  trumpets  in
Revelation  have  blown.3  So  the  last  trumpet  is  solid  scriptural
evidence that the Church will be on earth through the trumpets of
Revelation.  Now  Brethren,  that  isn't  just  another  irrational
end-time theory. If we have ears to hear it, that is what the Word
of God proclaims, straight out.

The last Bible trumpet blows in Rev 11:15, but the conditions
surrounding that trumpet blast are described in chapter ten:
Rev 10:6-7 ... that there should be time no longer: But in the
days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin
to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath
declared to his servants the prophets.

What a tremendous verse. If there is a central Scripture about
the chronology of the Lord's return, Rev 10:6-7 is it. As is true of
every  other  creation  of  this  present  age,  when  the  seventh
trumpet sounds, it also appears that time itself will come to an
_______________________

1 Some believe the Church is "raptured" at the end of Rev 3 because "church" (the
Greek word  X6680F\", usually rendered church), does not appear after Rev 3. Some
logic. That's like saying Esther didn't believe in God because the word "God," does
not appear in the book of Esther. But the main problems with their view are still
the seven trumpets of Revelation chapters 9 - 11.
2 Dave MacPherson writes, "Over the years I've privately contacted hundreds of the
best-known  evangelical  scholars  in  regards  to  their  prophetic  views.  The  vast
majority ... harmonizes 1 Thessalonians 4's coming with Matthew 24's coming, but
the general public doesn't know this. If just a minority ... were to publicly reveal
their positions, pretrib dispensationalism would receive a death blow." The Rapture
Plot (Simpsonville, SC, Millennium III Publishers), p.233
3 There are some denominational theologians who declare that this last trumpet
does not include the seven trumpets in Revelation. Unbelievable as it may sound,
they theorize that Revelation's seven trumpets are "special" trumpets of judgment
excluded from the firm mandate of 1Co 15:52. There is absolutely no Scripture for
their view, and it is counter to the plain testimony of the Bible: the declaration that
we are taken to be with the Lord at the last trumpet!
________________________________________

 182  The False Prophet

end.1 That's important, because understanding that time will come
to an end affects our end time doctrine.2

The "mystery of God" is the Church in Christ Jesus.3 So the
Church  as  a  betrothed  body  of  believers  on  Earth  will  be
concluded at this trumpet.

"As He hath declared to His servants the prophets." Which
prophets is the Lord speaking of? We don't see any excluded, so
these  prophets  are  all  the  prophets  in  the  Bible,  both  Old
Testament and New. All prophecy will be fulfilled at this trumpet.
Of course, this does not include those few verses which refer to
the eternal Kingdom of God. That timeless state continues into
infinity.

Let's look at the verse where that trumpet blast sounds. The
7th trumpet is blown right in the middle of Revelation, after the
Seven Churches, after the Seven Seals, after six other trumpets,
and after the Two Witnesses:

Revelation 11:15  And the seventh angel sounded; and there were
great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world
are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and
he shall reign for ever and ever.
__________________________________

1  The correct definition of the Gr. PD`<@l (chronos) is "time," and it is so translated
in the KJV. The modern  translation of chronos as "delay" is invalid. Greek has
several words for delay, including PD@<\.T (chronizo), which is from the same root.
If the Lord had intended delay, then He chose the wrong Greek word to express it.
Though  chronos  appears  53  times in the NT, only in Rev 10:6 have modern
translators taken the liberty of rendering chronos as delay. Strong defines PD`<@l
G5550, as a space of time, season, space, time, while. Chronos represents "delay"
only by implication.
2  If  there  is  no more  time  after  the  7th  trumpet,  there  isn't  any more  time  for
another trumpet to blow. So our trumpet couldn't come after this 7th trumpet.
Second, our trumpet can't come before this 7th trumpet either, or our trumpet
would not be the last. So the 7th trumpet of Revelation is our last trumpet. It is the
very trumpet at which we, the Church, are taken to be with the Lord!
Neither is the last trumpet going to sound over several years. The phrase "when he
shall begin to sound" tells us so. At the very first peep out of that trumpet, there
will be no more time! Time as a natural phenomenon will cease to exist, and we
will be in the eternal Kingdom of God. This puts to rest the idea that the seventh
trumpet could be blowing throughout a seven-year tribulation.
3  Rom 16:25, Eph 1:9, 3:4, 3:9, 5:32, Col:1:27, 2:2.
_________________________

 Last Trumpet 183

The 7th angel sounds, and the Lord reigns forever. Right then,
forever! After that trumpet blows, there won't be time for a tribu-
lation, or for a 1000-year millennium. We will be going straight
into the eternal Kingdom of God when that last trumpet sounds.
Despite differing doctrines, that  is the chronological picture as
declared in the Bible.

 GRAPH NUMBER 21



So when is the great tribulation? Matthew 24:21 tells us there
was going to  be  one. Well, the Greek word for tribulation is
thlipsis, also translated affliction and trouble. Thlipsis, used 37
times in the New Testament, almost always refers to the suffering
of the saints. Here are a couple of very familiar verses:

Joh 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me
ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have [thlipsis]
tribulation:  but  be  of  good  cheer;  I  have  overcome  the
world.

 184  The False Prophet

Romans  12:12  Rejoicing  in  hope;  patient  in  [thlipsis]
tribulation; continuing instant in prayer.

2 Thessalonians 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of
God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and
[thlipsis] tribulations that ye endure.

Generally  speaking,  the  unsaved  don't  go  through  thlipsis;
they  are  destined for orgy or thumos, God's wrath.1 Orgy and
thumos  are  the  two  Greek words  for wrath.  So we  saints  will
suffer tribulation during the Christian Era, but we are not destined
unto a final wrath, but unto eternal salvation.2 The wicked are
destined  unto  final  wrath,  the  judgment  of  the  Great  White
Throne, and the second death. So when is "the great tribulation"?
John tells us:

Revelation 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion
in  tribulation,  and  in  the kingdom  and patience  of  Jesus
Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of
God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The tribulation of the saints began during John's time. May
God forgive us for forgetting the terrible suffering the saints of the
past have endured. Between two and twenty million Christians
were killed by the Roman Empire in tortures unimaginable. The
Catholic  church  killed  up  to  twelve  million  more  during  the
middle ages. In our own generation alone, the Nazis murdered six
million Jews, and several million Christians. The Moslems have
killed millions as well. We don't read The Pilgrim Church, Fox's
Book of Martyrs, or Martyrs Mirror anymore, so we have lost our
sense of  history. We have  lost  all memory  of sufferings  of our
forefathers:
___________________________

1  Rom 9:22, Eph 5:6, 1Th 1:10, Rev 16:19.
2  The "but unto salvation" of 1Th 5:9 is much beloved by pre-trib rapturists as
proof of their position. However, that phrase is not about a tribulation period at all,
but about the eternal salvation of the saints. The verse must be read carefully if we
are to grasp what it really teaches.
_____________________________

 Last Trumpet 185

Matthew 25:29  For unto every one that hath shall be given, and
he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall
be taken away even that which he hath.

The Lord has permitted the enemy to blind our eyes and we
have lost sight of God's big spiritual picture. The Great Tribulation
of the Church began with the stoning of Stephen, and continued
until the time of the Gentiles ended. From the Scriptures we have
been looking at, it is obvious that all defined biblical times have
been fulfilled in new Israel. As a result, the Great Tribulation is
probably an epochal time that has been running throughout the
Christian Era. In fact, since the true saints have suffered terribly
ever since the cross, the "Great Tribulation" that Jesus spoke of
may be His name for the Christian Era.

NEWS BRIEF

Arutz Sheva Israel National Radio, 11/12/2001, 1.09pm
Aaron  Ussishkin,  50,  the  security  officer  of Moshav  Kfar
Hess, was shot dead by an Arab terrorist last night. He was
alerted to the presence of a suspicious man at the entrance
to the community, within pre-1967 Israel, about six
kilometers  northwest  of  PA-controlled  Kalkilye  and  six
kilometers  northeast  of Raanana. He  ran  to  the  site,  and
managed  only to ask the Arab what he was doing there
before the man shot him. Two other Israelis were wounded
in the attack, and the murderer escaped.

agie95

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Re: 16 - THE LAST TRUMPET
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2010, 01:30:49 PM »
First, I want to say I found your book Saturday night and was amazed with everything you had documented.  I finished readying the 19 chapters yesterday and it was hard to fall asleep.  Typically, when I find something new and gives me a lot to think about I have this issue.  Anyway, I come from the Pre-Wrath viewpoint which is the rapture occurs after the 6th seal prior to the beginning of God's wrath. 

My question to you is did you consider the Jewish Festival Rosh HaShanah as the Last Trump?  Jesus Christ fulfilled the 4 spring festivals literally and many believe that He will fulfill the 3 fall festivals literally as well in His second coming.  Rosh HaShanah in Jewish culture is considered the Last Trump.  The festival is celebrated over a two day period, hence we are told that no one can know the day or the hour.....

The link below is to a Hebrew Roots site and chapter 7 explains the Rosh HaShanah festival.  It is long, but worth the read.

http://www.hebroots.org/chap7.html

Thank you for the time you spent on this site.  It is definitely a good read and gave me a lot to think about.  I am going to have to take some time and digest/cross reference a lot of it to validate it.  No disrespect intended.


resistingrexmundi

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Re: 16 - THE LAST TRUMPET
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2010, 01:36:31 PM »
Quote
My question to you is did you consider the Jewish Festival Rosh HaShanah as the Last Trump?  Jesus Christ fulfilled the 4 spring festivals literally and many believe that He will fulfill the 3 fall festivals literally as well in His second coming.  Rosh HaShanah in Jewish culture is considered the Last Trump.  The festival is celebrated over a two day period, hence we are told that no one can know the day or the hour.....

The link below is to a Hebrew Roots site and chapter 7 explains the Rosh HaShanah festival.  It is long, but worth the read.

I have often wondered about that very thing. Jesus' crucifixion being passover, His resurrection being firstfruits, and Pentecost the feast of weeks. It is an interesting thing to contemplate. Also the distance between the two groups of festivals being indicative of His time away before He returned. While it is true that He could return on Rosh Hashana it is still impossible to know which one or exactly when. This site isn't dedicated to guessing the date of His return. More like highlighting the imminence of its occurence in the near future.

Oh yeah the book is by Ellis Skolfield. But Pete and I will try to answer any questions you may have once you have digested the material. Feel free to ask.

God bless
Doth that man love his Lord who would be willing to see Jesus wearing a crown of thorns, while for himself he craves a chaplet of laurel? Shall Jesus ascend to his throne by the cross, and do we expect to be carried there on the shoulders of applauding crowds? Charles H. Spurgeon

Peter

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Re: 16 - THE LAST TRUMPET
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2010, 01:57:27 PM »
I am going to have to take some time and digest/cross reference a lot of it to validate it.  No disrespect intended.
Hi agie and welcome to the forum. :)
Of course no disrespect taken. We've got pretty thick skins in here from dealing with the outright blasphemy of Muslims!
Indeed we encourage you to pick it apart as Christians are charged to "prove all things". The last thing we would want to do in this forum is pass along false information, or proffer a point of view that we didn't believe was supportable with scripture.

One thing you are tasked with is not to try to understand this unfamiliar eschatology by wringing it through the filter of a cherished doctrine that you already hold. There are 3 main schools of context for understanding end-time prophecy. Partial-preterist, futurist and continuous historic. You need to consider each entirely on it's own merit, before you compare it with another entire context. They are all mutually exclusive.
This will explain it more thoroughly.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=14.0

Fisher

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Re: 16 - THE LAST TRUMPET
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2014, 08:21:36 PM »
First I would like to say that I find the views here very enlightening and the historical facts behind it.
I do have a question as to
  Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Why would the moon be likened to the church when all through revelation and other places discussed here the church is likened to a candlestick?

I am asking this because of the lunar eclipse, meteor shower, solar eclipse this year. John Hagee has a good sermon on the four blood moons. There are a few other questions that i have with your reasoning here but all in all I find it very well thought out and reasonable.

Mike S

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Re: 16 - THE LAST TRUMPET
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2014, 08:17:33 AM »
First I would like to say that I find the views here very enlightening and the historical facts behind it.
I do have a question as to
  Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Why would the moon be likened to the church when all through revelation and other places discussed here the church is likened to a candlestick?

I am asking this because of the lunar eclipse, meteor shower, solar eclipse this year. John Hagee has a good sermon on the four blood moons. There are a few other questions that i have with your reasoning here but all in all I find it very well thought out and reasonable.

Hello Fisher. Welcome  to the forum. To answer your question about the moon representing the church, we believe that is the case because just as the moon has no light of its' own, and can only reflect the light of the sun, so it is the same with the church. The body of Christ can only let the light of God shine though us. We cannot produce the light of the Gospel ourselves.
The vision in Revelation actually had two parts, because the scroll was written on the front and back. Jesus read the front side, which included the part about the candlesticks, and John read the back side, in which was the symbolism we are discussing.
Another passage in Revelation where the moon can be intrepreted to be the church is in chapter 12:
Revelation 12:1-6 “And there appeared a great wonder in
heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the
moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve
stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth,
and pained to be delivered. And there appeared another
wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon ,
having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon
his heads . And his tail
drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did
cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the
woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her
child as soon as it was born. And she brought forth a man
child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron :
and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
And the woman  fled into the wilderness, where
she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her
there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.”
The woman here is Israel, the 12 stars of the crown  are the 12 tribes of Israel, the sun is God the Father, the child is Christ, and the moon is the church. the moon is positioned under the woman's feet because, I think, Israel was the first people group to be chosen by God as His people, and the church first consisted of Jews who followed Jesus. Everyone who has come across Ellis' works has had questions as to how it all fits together, so just fire away.  :)

PeteWaldo

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Re: 16 - THE LAST TRUMPET
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2014, 01:00:41 PM »
First I would like to say that I find the views here very enlightening and the historical facts behind it.
I do have a question as to
  Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Why would the moon be likened to the church when all through revelation and other places discussed here the church is likened to a candlestick?

I am asking this because of the lunar eclipse, meteor shower, solar eclipse this year. John Hagee has a good sermon on the four blood moons. There are a few other questions that i have with your reasoning here but all in all I find it very well thought out and reasonable.

Hello Fisher. Welcome  to the forum. To answer your question about the moon representing the church, we believe that is the case because just as the moon has no light of its' own, and can only reflect the light of the sun,.....


The Son/Sun:

Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

Everyone who has come across Ellis' works has had questions as to how it all fits together, so just fire away.  :)

Would help quite a bit if Fisher read The False Prophet through, first.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/the_great_detective.htm

ExMilitary

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Re: 16 - THE LAST TRUMPET
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2014, 03:52:45 PM »
The sun and the moon were also given for signs and for seasons.  There isn't any reason why both the literal and symbolic representations of the sun, moon, and stars couldn't be true... after all, the "heavens declare the glory of God, and the skies proclaim the work of His hands".  The imagery given of the woman clothed in the sun with the moon at her feet is obviously referring to something spiritual, but there is, during one of the ordained biblical feasts, a time when Virgo (the virgin) is 'clothed in the sun' with 'the moon at her feet':

In the final culmination of this tetrad (in 2015):
  • There will be a (partial in Jerusalem) solar eclipse on the Feast of Trumpets
  • Followed (4 days later) the sun will begin 'clothing' virgo and the moon will be at the 'feet' of Virgo
  • Followed (10 days later) by the Feast of Atonement
  • Followed (5 days later) by a blood moon on the Feast of Tabernacles
One lunar cycle after the clothing begins, the sun will be in the body of Virgo and the moon will once again be at the feet


These 'clothing/feet' cycles happen every year in the sun, moon, and stars.

It is no coincidence that Jesus was crucified during a full moon.  It was under a full moon that Israel fled Egypt... providing the best light for the people to see their way (after believing the WORD given Moses) until they were met by God for their deliverance at the Red Sea.  Likewise, the church's light, reflecting the son, provides the best light for people to see their way in the darkness so they know the way to meet God at their salvation.