Author Topic: ".....for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first..."  (Read 1736 times)

Peter

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2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first....

a falling away
Strong's: New Testament Greek Definition:
646 apostasia {ap-os-tas-ee'-ah}
feminine of the same as 647; TDNT - 1:513,88; n f
AV - to forsake + 575 1, falling away 1; 2
1) a falling away, defection, apostasy

So the verse is referring to an apostasy that was to come in the future of when that verse was penned. Some date 2Thessalonians at around 52 AD, but dating isn't important, since we all agree it was penned some time after the cross, and folks in here would have to believe dated at least before 70AD.
Now the first century, in particular, is recognized as being the exact opposite of apostasy, but rather characterized by tremendous growth of the ecclesia, well demonstrating that "the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the ecclesia".

So what apostasy was Paul referring to that took place between around 50 and 70 AD?

Within the traditional historicist approach to prophecy, through which all Jews and Christians understand Old Testament prophecy was fulfilled, and up until a couple centuries ago the ecclesia understood New Testament prophecy was being fulfilled, apostasy isn't at all difficult to spot in this, what may be Daniel's prophesied "time of the end". Preaching of repentance being replaced by "prosperity theology", and "movements" like the "Toronto Blessing", Todd Bentley's "healing" movement, and perhaps even the presence of Kandalini, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBpw2oQrvMM in the increasingly apostate, ecumenical and pluralistic "church".
All taking place right in the "temple of God".

As we should already all be well aware, there is of course conspicuous apostasy in Europe and elsewhere around the world, in the classical sense of the term. The following examples open with excerpts from Soeren Kern at the Gatestone Institute from his article "Muslims Converting Empty European Churches into Mosques":
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/27...s-into-mosques

"Muslims in Europe are increasingly converting empty Christian churches into mosques.
The proliferation of mosques housed in former churches reflects the rise of Islam as the fastest growing religion in post-Christian Europe."

"As Islam replaces Christianity as the dominant religion in Europe, more and more churches are set to become mosques, which increasingly serve not only as religious institutions but also function as the foundational political building blocks for the establishment of separate, parallel Muslim communities in Europe that are based on Islamic Sharia law."

"In addition to Roman Catholic churches, some Protestant churches have also been converted into mosques in Germany, where the Muslim population has jumped from around 50,000 in the early 1980s to more than 4 million today.
In Germany as a whole, more than 400 Roman Catholic churches and more than 100 Protestant churches have been closed since 2000, according to one estimate. Another 700 Roman Catholic churches are slated to be closed over the next several years."

"Overall, at least 10,000 churches have been closed in Britain since 1960, including 8,000 Methodist churches and 1,700 Anglican churches. Another 4,000 churches are set to be closed by 2020, according to Christian Research, an organization that tracks religious trends in Britain.
By contrast, there are now more than 1,700 official mosques in Britain, many converted from former churches."

Many more insightful articles by Soeren Kern, from the other side of the pond, are available at this link, that even agnostics or atheists - who don't welcome the prospect of their heirs being subjugated to Muhammad's followers under Islamic sharia law, and thus being compelled to prostrate toward the Quraish pagan's black stone idol in Mecca five times a day, any more than any other non-Muslims would - might appreciate. Yet preterists must perhaps believe this apostasy to be just some sort of a freaky accident of history, like the restoration of Jews to Israel.

Radical Islam.org reports: "Crossing the Interfaith Line: Islamists Take Advantage of Naive Christians"
http://www.radicalislam.org/analysis...ive-christians

"The Muslim Public Affairs Council’s choice of location for its 12th Annual Convention on December 15 is telling: The All Saints Episcopal Church of Pasadena, California. The group, founded by Muslim Brotherhood followers, says this is the “next step in its mission by crossing the interfaith line.”
Yet again, the Islamists are taking advantage of naïve Christians with a desire to show off their tolerance.
The All Saints Episcopal Church of Pasadena started an Interfaith Study Group in 2007 with the Pasadena Jewish Temple and the Islamic Center of Southern California (ICSC), from which MPAC originated. The organization was founded as a branch of ICSC in 1986 and then became independent in 1988, though the two remain intertwined.
The ICSC is proud of its interfaith successes. For example, the First United Methodist Church of Santa Monica is allowing the ICSC to hold Friday prayers there every week."

So we find the above partial-preterist/supersessionist institutions have been struck so blind to Islam, perhaps by their relatively greater distaste for Jews, that antichrist Islamic blasphemy filled Imams are preaching within these evermore ecumenical and pluralistic "churches". Followers of the false prophet Muhammad, that believe that the most egregious, and ONLY unforgivable sin is committed if a follower of Muhammad were to confess that Jesus is the Son of God. That would constitute a sin worse than the mass murder of those school children of recent weeks. Followers of the false prophet Muhammad who are compelled to DISbelieve the crucifixion and resurrection of the Messiah, and reject His shed blood, as articles of their faith in Muhammad alone.

From Wikipedia on the Presbyterian Church (not all of which are partial-preterist/anti-Zionist as some are futurist)

"Ronald H. Stone, John Witherspoon Professor of Christian Ethics at Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, attracted negative media attention during the tour after being quoted as saying, "We treasure the precious words of Hezbollah and your expression of goodwill toward the American people. Also we praise your initiative for dialogue and mutual understanding. We cherish these statements that bring us closer to you. As an elder of our church, I'd like to say that according to my recent experience, relations and conversations with Islamic leaders are a lot easier than dealings and dialogue with Jewish leaders."[4]

Driven by punitive supersessionism they laud praises on an internationally recognized Islamic terrorist organization while distancing themselves from Israeli Jews. The context suggests they were perhaps as much fooled by Islamic terrorist's taqiyyah and subterfuge, as their revulsion and animus toward Jews perhaps made them unable to face reality conveyed to them by Jewish leaders.

So what apostasy happened in the first century according to preterism?
Didn't in fact the exact opposite of apostasy occur?

The growth of the ecclesia exploded in the first century, particularly since "the blood of martyrs is the seed of the ecclesia".
(The difference between a Christian and Muslim martyr is the Christian martyr says "I will die for what I believe in." while the Muslim so-called "martyr" says "You will die for what I believe in.")

I've been criticized for describing preterism as an inverted pyramid of pile-on presumption that springs from a single passage, verse, and perhaps even word. Yet each time scripture is queried about, from outside of the Olivet Discourse, the folks in this forum section seem to be at a loss. Even worse, contorting and bending scriptures and creating metaphors at their pleasure, in spiritualizing away that which doesn't fit with their understanding of the Olivet Discourse.
Most recently demonstrated by apparent inability to reply with the historically and hermeneutically well supported alternative to Daniel's "beasts" offered in this thread:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3466.0
In the same vein as failure in the thread on "the false prophet".
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3477.0
Let alone (RCC Jesuit Luis Alcazar's eschatology as being most likely responsible for) this portion of the modern church being compelled to reject the physical matter of fact return of Jews to Israel, with 6 million Jews ruling Israel today, as not being of the will of the Lord.

So what apostasy do preterists believe Paul was referring to, that would have had to have taken place, within the 20 or so years before 70 AD?