Author Topic: Healing & Age of the Earth  (Read 5026 times)

Edward

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Healing & Age of the Earth
« on: May 03, 2013, 01:01:44 AM »
Recently I have been dealing with physical healing, I strongly believe and know that the "gifts" and well God is very much alive. However I have been praying for healing for my father who needed open heart surgery. Years ago I lost my faith when my grandmother was not healed and died. A BIG part of my error was at the time I was following the "Word of Faith" (which are false teachers) but that doesn't entirely explain to me why God does not seem to heal? At least from what I have seen and am seeing.

Second thing is I have no church, but since I recently repented and am back walking with the Lord the pastor of my parents church sent over about 15 old VHS tapes. Partly he wanted me to do an A/D transfer for him onto DVD and also he thinks it is "good" for me to watch. The series is called "Answers in Genesis" and produced by Ken Ham and published by Master Books in AR.

I would watch it except after talking to the pastor he is trying to convince me the world is only 6,000 years old. I am sorry but this is an interpretation (not biblical fact) the bible doesn't specify a certain age. We have IMO "overwhelming" evidence that dinosaurs lived in a past age long before man.

Pete what is your opinion on these 2 issues? Could you provide some insight for me.

Thank you my brother.

In Christ,
Ed

PeteWaldo

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Re: Healing & Age of the Earth
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2013, 08:02:05 AM »
Recently I have been dealing with physical healing, I strongly believe and know that the "gifts" and well God is very much alive. However I have been praying for healing for my father who needed open heart surgery. Years ago I lost my faith when my grandmother was not healed and died. A BIG part of my error was at the time I was following the "Word of Faith" (which are false teachers) but that doesn't entirely explain to me why God does not seem to heal? At least from what I have seen and am seeing.

Second thing is I have no church, but since I recently repented and am back walking with the Lord the pastor of my parents church sent over about 15 old VHS tapes. Partly he wanted me to do an A/D transfer for him onto DVD and also he thinks it is "good" for me to watch. The series is called "Answers in Genesis" and produced by Ken Ham and published by Master Books in AR.

I would watch it except after talking to the pastor he is trying to convince me the world is only 6,000 years old. I am sorry but this is an interpretation (not biblical fact) the bible doesn't specify a certain age. We have IMO "overwhelming" evidence that dinosaurs lived in a past age long before man.

Pete what is your opinion on these 2 issues? Could you provide some insight for me.

Thank you my brother.

In Christ,
Ed

I haven't been called to this, nor do I have time to investigate it, and there is no shortage of folks that have been called to it. However I do harbor, what I believe to be a healthy distrust for what is called "science" these days. Whether the folks that are ostracized, and fired from their jobs for criticizing the suggestion of anthropomorphic warming, or the fairly recent advent of the "big bang" theory. The sheer folly of Al Gore's foolishness, yet near universal acceptance of it even in spite the absence of his qualifications, pretty much say it all for me.

Let alone Darwin's own question regarding the absence of transitional form fossils. Not long ago someone posted on this subject in the atheist section (though not an atheists), and I didn't bother to move the post. I consolidated his 4 or so posts into one, and only added a note or two.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3451.0

It is a bit outside the subject of, but certainly not off limits for, this forum. Maybe someone else will share your interest who is better educated and versed on the subject than I.

Edward

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Re: Healing & Age of the Earth
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2013, 05:45:09 PM »
Thank you for that link I am reading it now. This is not "vital" as it has nothing to do with being saved, but something I am interested in knowing and nice to have another insight at this.


PeteWaldo

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Re: Healing & Age of the Earth
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2013, 09:03:43 AM »
For your consideration. I found it very helpful and grounding:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/could-god-have-created-in-six-days

Mike S

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Re: Healing & Age of the Earth
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2013, 11:57:09 AM »
Hi Ed - Mind if I chime in here? (Going to anyway, hehe). I have bounced back and forth on this question myself. I have come to the conclusion that it is really a side issue, and what matters is that God CREATED all things. How he did it is unimportant. I do however, interpret a passage in Job to mean that dinosaurs did roam the earth after man was created:

15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. 16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly. 17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together. 18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron. 19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him. 20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play. 21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens. 22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about. 23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth. 24 He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.
 
Job 40:15-24 (KJV)

This, to me is the description of a dinosaur, particularly the Apatosaurus. or possibly other grazing dinosaurs.  Also of note is the beast described in the next chapter, whose description we would know to be of a dragon:

1 Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down? 2 Canst thou put an hook into his nose? or bore his jaw through with a thorn? 3 Will he make many supplications unto thee? will he speak soft words unto thee? 4 Will he make a covenant with thee? wilt thou take him for a servant for ever? 5 Wilt thou play with him as with a bird? or wilt thou bind him for thy maidens? 6 Shall the companions make a banquet of him? shall they part him among the merchants? 7 Canst thou fill his skin with barbed irons? or his head with fish spears? 8 Lay thine hand upon him, remember the battle, do no more. 9 Behold, the hope of him is in vain: shall not one be cast down even at the sight of him? 10 None is so fierce that dare stir him up: who then is able to stand before me?
 
11 Who hath prevented me, that I should repay him? whatsoever is under the whole heaven is mine. 12 I will not conceal his parts, nor his power, nor his comely proportion. 13 Who can discover the face of his garment? or who can come to him with his double bridle? 14 Who can open the doors of his face? his teeth are terrible round about. 15 His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal. 16 One is so near to another, that no air can come between them. 17 They are joined one to another, they stick together, that they cannot be sundered. 18 By his neesings a light doth shine, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning. 19 Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out. 20 Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron. 21 His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth. 22 In his neck remaineth strength, and sorrow is turned into joy before him. 23 The flakes of his flesh are joined together: they are firm in themselves; they cannot be moved. 24 His heart is as firm as a stone; yea, as hard as a piece of the nether millstone. 25 When he raiseth up himself, the mighty are afraid: by reason of breakings they purify themselves. 26 The sword of him that layeth at him cannot hold: the spear, the dart, nor the habergeon. 27 He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood. 28 The arrow cannot make him flee: slingstones are turned with him into stubble. 29 Darts are counted as stubble: he laugheth at the shaking of a spear. 30 Sharp stones are under him: he spreadeth sharp pointed things upon the mire. 31 He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment. 32 He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary. 33 Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear. 34 He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.
 
Job 41:1-34 (KJV)

Just food for thought, my brother.  - Mike

PeteWaldo

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Re: Healing & Age of the Earth
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2013, 12:50:02 PM »

ExMilitary

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Re: Healing & Age of the Earth
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2013, 10:59:56 PM »
I've given up on the idea that the earth is old because the logic used for dating (fossils/earth strata/etc) has two fundamental flaws:
1.  Unprovable assumptions are made about dating methods.
2.  When trying to prove the assumptions, circular arguments are used

Edward

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Re: Healing & Age of the Earth
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2013, 05:22:54 AM »
I am sorry for my late reply, just got around to this tonight.

Thank you Pete for those links, they helped a lot.

Quote
Hi Ed - Mind if I chime in here? (Going to anyway, hehe).

No of course NOT Mike S thank you for doing so.

I agree that this is a side issue and not vital to actual salvation, but either we believe that all 66 books is the complete and unedited Word of God or we don't.

I know we did not come from a monkey, that's not an issue and is purely absurd and degrading to God if He made us in His image (he's no monkey!).

As a fan of the Science channel and someone who enjoys physics it sometimes can get confusing. As one of my old pastors used to say "Science is man's best guess" and there is a lot of truth to that especially when we get into unproved theory.

I know God created everything, and I cannot see any evidence in His word that the earth is millions of years old. I only hear that from Science, the same people who tell me I came from a monkey  ;D

Thank you both for the insight and links. I agree mike that does indeed sound like what we would call a dinosaur, though I am as ignorant as one can get in this area and God has showed me the truth after reading your posts and those links.

Thank you both there's no question how I feel now about this.

In Christ,
Ed
« Last Edit: May 07, 2013, 05:29:56 AM by Edward »

PeteWaldo

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Re: Healing & Age of the Earth
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2013, 07:13:36 AM »
I look at it a bit like, could God arrange things so that men that have faith in their own wisdom could convince themselves that they are right, when they are wrong? I believe He could arrange things in just such a way.

John MacArthur
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9qc0wL9R0o

Suggesting that accepting science nullifies the scriptures and will drive people away from the rest of the bible as being untrue
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th71-5tbsWw

And William Lane Craig on the other hand suggesting that not accepting science will drive people away from scripture
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3ic_Y5T9Y4

Mike S

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Re: Healing & Age of the Earth
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2013, 02:30:17 AM »
Recently I have been dealing with physical healing, I strongly believe and know that the "gifts" and well God is very much alive. However I have been praying for healing for my father who needed open heart surgery. Years ago I lost my faith when my grandmother was not healed and died. A BIG part of my error was at the time I was following the "Word of Faith" (which are false teachers) but that doesn't entirely explain to me why God does not seem to heal? At least from what I have seen and am seeing.


Ed, Pete and I completely ignored the first question.  I will try to address that now. Basically, your question is "why does God heal some and not others?"
First of all, illness is in the world because it, and we, are fallen.  Sometimes illness (and calamity) are intended by God to be a test of our faith; not that He causes illness, but he allows it. Some preachers such as James Price teach that illness is a result of unconfessed sin. I am not sure about that. What I do know is this: God is sovereign, and knows  what is best for each of us. Scripture teaches that our days are numbered. I do believe that a death from illness, in the case of believers, is the ultimate healing. But as to why God chooses to  heal one person and not  another, the only thing i can come up with is that He will always do what reveals His glory to the greatest degree in each case. I have had friends who died from illness, and their walk through that valley, and their testimony would not have been as great, in my opinion, had they survived. The strength of their faith was there for all to see. I have another friend who survived bladder cancer just last year and is now fighting leukemia with utmost faith and courage, and exhibiting his sense of humor about it.  We do not know what the outcome will be for him, but  either way, he knows he wins. Hope this helps a wee bit, brother.
-Mike

PeteWaldo

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Re: Healing & Age of the Earth
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2013, 07:32:59 AM »
Another site I have been directed to but haven't read. Found this interesting:
"Quotations, references, and notes on pages 51–105 provide supporting details for specific conclusions. Usually, these details are based on research done by evolutionists who are experts in a relevant field. Choosing evolutionists rather than creationists will minimize charges of bias. (Besides, no testimony is more convincing than that from a “hostile witness.”)"
http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/PartI.html

PeteWaldo

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Re: Healing & Age of the Earth
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2014, 05:45:36 AM »
This from brother Ellis today:

"I just posted this on this one of the Christian forums. It’s important, because the Bible description of Creation in six days causes many to distrust the Scripture. Are the astrophysicists and geologists right or is the Bible a trustworthy historic record?
 
I worked with multiples, MPD/DID sufferers, for several years (see my book on the subject, "The Shining Man With Hurt Hands"). I could be in conversation with one alter who would decide to go "inside," i.e. into the spiritual world, and I might not talk to that same alter again for several days. When I saw her again, I would ask if we had been talking continually or if time had elapsed between our two conversations. Well guess what, time had not elapsed while she was inside, so in the spiritual world there is no time! Actually, time is a creation of God . . .
 
Isaiah 45:12  “I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.”
 
The universe was not created in place, but "stretched out," and that took time. So God created time in this Universe by His act of stretching out the heavens. But God exists in eternity, outside of time, in timelessness, and understanding that fact changed my whole view of the six days of creation!
 
Sometimes we have to stand back and look at scriptural events from God's perspective. There were no human observers at creation, only God was there. Therefore, God must have dictated the account of the six days of creation to Adam, Genesis 5:1. So was God telling man about creation’s six "days" from His position when there is no time, or from finite man's who is bound by time? Can't tell from text, but we should at  least look at the possibility that the Lord was describing those days from His position in timelessness, in which 1,000,000,000 years are but an eye-blink, 2Peter 3:8.
 
So could creation have taken place in six 24 hour days? Of course, but as God saw those “days,” could creation have taken place over geologic ages? Of course.
 
What I'm getting at is this: Once we understand that God dictated the account from His eternal timelessness, the supposed paradox between science and the Scripture disappears into thin air. It is no longer important whether the six days of creation are six 24-hour days or six geologic ages! In my opinion, neither position does damage to Scripture so we can all happily worship the Lord with brethren who hold either position."

PeteWaldo

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Re: Healing & Age of the Earth
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2014, 01:45:00 PM »
 DO YOU BELIEVE IN EVOLUTION?
By Coach Dave Daubenmire
http://www.newswithviews.com/Daubenmire/dave361.htm


PeteWaldo

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Re: Healing & Age of the Earth
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2015, 11:03:11 AM »
St Augustine offers this advice:

    "...In matters that are so obscure and far beyond our vision, we find in Holy Scripture passages which can be interpreted in very different ways without prejudice to the faith we have received. In such cases, we should not rush in headlong and so firmly take our stand on one side that, if further progress in the search of truth justly undermines this position, we too fall with it. That would be to battle not for the teaching of Holy Scripture but for our own, wishing its teaching to conform to ours, whereas we ought to wish ours to conform to that of Sacred Scripture."

Article on many approaches:
http://www.asa3.org/ASA/topics/Evolution/index.html