Author Topic: Generation that won't pass away..  (Read 2172 times)

Steve

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Generation that won't pass away..
« on: November 06, 2015, 02:18:53 PM »
Is the "last" generation counted from 1948 or 1967?

PeteWaldo

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Re: Generation that won't pass away..
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2015, 04:06:19 PM »
Is the "last" generation counted from 1948 or 1967?

Since Daniel's "times" prophecies were not both fulfilled to cross-confirm each other until 1967, I would say it wasn't until then that we entered what Daniel's prophecy called the "time of the end". Same with John's 42 "months" problems cross-confirming his 1260 "days" problems. The "times of the Gentiles" in Jerusalem were not fulfilled until 1967, and that is one of the things in that passage that had to be fulfilled.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/matthew_24_olivet_discourse.htm#times_gentiles
Regarding ideas around the term "generation", a few different Greek terms are used, and there is a bit of the devil in those details!
http://www.christianeschatology.com/partial_preterism.htm#generation

In the verse you allude to, it is likely literal, but could even be metaphorical.

Strong's 1074 genea
1) fathered, birth, nativity
2) that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family
a) the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy
b) metaph. a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character
1) esp. in a bad sense, a perverse nation
3) the whole multitude of men living at the same time
4) an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 years

Could be referring to the generation of Christian men that all share the same "endowments, pursuits, character".
If literal generation is meant, which is more likely, it could be as long as a generation lasts today. Because of medical advances scientists speculate that people under 50 who take reasonable care of themselves may expect to live to be 120 (same limit as Genesis). Psalms suggests 70-80 year life spans.

Regarding the big touchstone of preterism that they like to stick futurists in the eye with:
http://www.christianeschatology.com/partial_preterism.htm#matthew_24_34

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation (genea) shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

The literal generation sense of genea could be meant for this verse, since it is not a rebuke as the others explored at the prior link, but rather more informational, perhaps in answer to the earlier question regarding the end of the age that was to come after the "times of the Gentiles" in Jerusalem were to be fulfilled. While a million Jews were killed in 70AD, the Roman Gentiles killed another one half to three quarters of a million Jews less than 70 years later - with Gentiles ruling Jerusalem until 1967 - making it conspicuously untenable to suggest that the "times of the Gentiles" in Jerusalem were fulfilled in 70AD.

When we look to Strong's and a TR Greek/English interlinear we find that Matthew 24:34 can be as easily understood as indicating:

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, {the same} generation shall not pass, till all these things {shall have taken place}.

The Greek houtos {hoo'-tos} translated as "this" is translated as "the same" on 28 other occasions. Since within passage Jesus included "Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled" as one of the things that needed to take place, and Jews did not gain control until 1967, that verse would indicate the passing of a generation born no earlier than 1967.

Here's some speculating:
https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/a-generation-or-a-lifespan/

Bistabuster

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Re: Generation that won't pass away..
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2015, 01:48:54 AM »
Hey Pete.  How are you? 

Nice article.  Not saying I'm right (far from it) but what do you think of the PM I sent you a while back pertaining to this subject matter?

You can share that information if you want to!  :)

PeteWaldo

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Re: Generation that won't pass away..
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2015, 03:19:29 AM »
Hey Pete.  How are you? 

Nice article.  Not saying I'm right (far from it) but what do you think of the PM I sent you a while back pertaining to this subject matter?

You can share that information if you want to!  :)

Hi Bistabuster. I looked and saw that I didn't reply to that PM and I wan to apologize for that. You sent it at about the same time as the passing of our great friend Ellis Skolfield. I wouldn't have offered much more of a reply to it then, as now, since I don't believe that Bible prophecy was given for us to speculate about the future as if to make us all prophets as the "This Category" thread details. You are welcome to post it in this section since that's what it's for, but I won't likely be inclined to reply, though others may want to join you.
While we may not be allowed to know the day and the hour.....

Matthew 24:33  So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, [even] at the doors.

Gentiles ruled Jerusalem until 1967, so prior to the fulfillment of the "times of the Gentiles" it would have been inappropriate to expect an imminent return of Christ, except perhaps simultaneous with that. As long as there was fulfillment of the parable of the fig tree as anticipated by Christians centuries before the restoration of Jews to their land began to take place.
http://www.historyofzionism.com/zionism_in_christianity.htm#christians_on_zionism

However I do believe, as you, that the return of Jesus Christ is truly imminent. How can things get any worse in the prophet John's "whole world", now that virtually everyone outside of Israel carries the mark or name of the Islamic "beast", except perhaps for the last of prophecy fulfillment indicated by such as:
http://www.israelinbibleprophecy.com/#plague

Zechariah 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Joel 2:30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

Strong's:
and pillars
Old Testament Hebrew Definition:
08490 tiymarah {tee-maw-raw'} or timarah {tee-maw-raw'}
from the same as 08558; TWOT - 2523d; n f
AV - pillar 2; 2
1) pillar, column
1a) palm-like spreading at top



Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

How long, O Lord, indeed!

Bistabuster

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Re: Generation that won't pass away..
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2015, 11:46:52 AM »
I did make sure that what I said was speculation.  Not absolute.  If you read it again, I made it clear that I was not date setting.  Just throwing out a possibility that could be very well wrong!

What is true is what was written as of to date at the time of that writing.  Facts were given.  From that point on forward, I don't know.  What I wrote about the future I cannot guarantee.  It's just a possible outcome, not an absolute. 

It was not meant to be that way.

No.  I have no clue when His actual return will be.  It could be 3 years, 5, 10, 50 or even 100 years.  But what I do know as a FACT is that we are indeed within the last generation so the possibility of me seeing His return is greater than ever.  Even Ellis told me personally that we will not get to old age before the return of Christ. 

To say this...
Matt 24:36  But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Mark 13:32  But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.


Means to me that we will not know the exact moment of His return but we can certainly know the season.  These two verses are saying the DAY and the HOUR.......not the season!! 

Is it true that the return of Christ can happen right now?  Absolutely.  You are describing the season, in this case, the last generation of which we are in right now!!! 

So, can I point out the EXACT DAY and YEAR of His return?  No way!  And if I do, it will be the luckiest guess of all time!  So, I am not going to play that game.  I'll just stick with the season. 

PeteWaldo

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Re: Generation that won't pass away..
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2015, 12:12:55 PM »
I did make sure that what I said was speculation.  Not absolute.  If you read it again, I made it clear that I was not date setting.  Just throwing out a possibility that could be very well wrong!

What is true is what was written as of to date at the time of that writing.  Facts were given.  From that point on forward, I don't know.  What I wrote about the future I cannot guarantee.  It's just a possible outcome, not an absolute. 

It was not meant to be that way.

I completely understood.

No.  I have no clue when His actual return will be.  It could be 3 years, 5, 10, 50 or even 100 years.  But what I do know as a FACT is that we are indeed within the last generation so the possibility of me seeing His return is greater than ever.  Even Ellis told me personally that we will not get to old age before the return of Christ.

That could well be, but for someone of my age, "old age" becomes a more relative term! :P

To say this...
Matt 24:36  But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Mark 13:32  But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.


Means to me that we will not know the exact moment of His return but we can certainly know the season.  These two verses are saying the DAY and the HOUR.......not the season!!

And as in the verse that I pointed out, we'll know when it's near, even at the door.

Is it true that the return of Christ can happen right now?  Absolutely.  You are describing the season, in this case, the last generation of which we are in right now!!!

I believe that may well be true.

So, can I point out the EXACT DAY and YEAR of His return?  No way!  And if I do, it will be the luckiest guess of all time!  So, I am not going to play that game.  I'll just stick with the season.

I didn't mean to discourage you bro, its just that my interest is fulfilled prophecy, and I'm not comfortable speculating. If you don't have a copy of your PM I will forward you my copy to post whatever you like.

Bistabuster

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Re: Generation that won't pass away..
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2015, 11:20:12 PM »
Thanks! 8) :o