Islam, Slavery and the Sword (split off and retitled by Peter)

[Mujaheed]

IS 1.8 billion people following the Religion of an Illiterate pagan Arab from a desert that is set in one of the harshest, remotest climates in the world, in less tahn half the time than a 3500 year old religion? Miracle? or Unbelievable (DISBELIEVER)

Not at all unbelievable thanks to slavery and the sword. Over 2 million killed by Mohammed's followers - in the Sudan alone - even today. And the numbers of Mohammed's followers are just as we should expect.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for WIDE [IS] THE GATE, AND BROAD [IS THE WAY, THAT LEADETH TO DESTRUCTION, and many there be which go in thereat:

DO YOU NOT THINK THAT PEOPLE ARE MUSLIM TODAY OUT OF FREEWILL? 1.8 billion there are only 300 million native arabic speakers the rest of the Muslim population is out side of Arabia,

WHO ARE THE BIGGEST ARMS DEALERS IN THE WORLD TODAY? WHO WAGES THE MOST WAR in the world Today? SWEEP IN FRONT OF YOUR OWN DOOR FIRST, I KNOW YOU GOING TO SAY THEY NOT CHRISTIAN, so how few are the Christian numbers now a days, A few million? YOU DONT CONSIDER THE BIGGEST GROUP TO BE CHRISTIAN (ROMAN CATHOLICS) YOU SAY THEY GOING TO HELL DONT YOU.

ARE YOU talking about propaganda and the media, quoting POLITICS AS AN EXCUSE AGAIN? IS IT BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOTHING BUT opinion and conjecture and none of your statements holds any credibility, it is unsubstantiated drivel that is used instead of talking about THE GOD. THE MOST SLAVES AND FIRST SLAVE SET FREE WERE SET FREE BY MUSLIMS, FIRST PERSON WHOSE FREEDOM WAS BOUGHT WAS BILAL

SHOULD I COPY AND PAST THE THOUSANDS OF HADITH ON SETTING A SLAVE FREE FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE read-only participantS?

Volume 3, Book 46, Number 693:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "Whoever frees a Muslim slave, Allah will save all the parts of his body from the (Hell) Fire as he has freed the body-parts of the slave." Said bin Marjana said that he narrated that Hadith to 'Ali bin Al-Husain and he freed his slave for whom 'Abdullah bin Ja'far had offered him ten thousand Dirhams or one-thousand Dinars.

Volume 3, Book 46, Number 694:

Narrated Abu Dhar:

I asked the Prophet, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and to fight for His Cause." I then asked, "What is the best kind of manumission (of slaves)?" He replied, "The manumission of the most expensive slave and the most beloved by his master." I said, "If I cannot afford to do that?" He said, "Help the weak or do good for a person who cannot work for himself." I said, "If I cannot do that?" He said, "Refrain from harming others for this will be regarded as a charitable deed for your own good."

Volume 3, Book 46, Number 695:

Narrated Asma' bint Abu Bakr:

The Prophet ordered us to free slaves at the time of solar eclipses.

Volume 3, Book 46, Number 696:

Narrated Asma' bint Abu Bakr:

We were ordered to free slaves at the time of lunar eclipses.

Volume 3, Book 46, Number 697:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

The Prophet said, "Whoever manumits a slave owned by two masters, should manumit him completely (not partially) if he is rich after having its price evaluated."

Volume 3, Book 46, Number 698:

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:

Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever frees his share of a common slave and he has sufficient money to free him completely, should let its price be estimated by a just man and give his partners the price of their shares and manumit the slave; otherwise (i.e. if he has not sufficient money) he manumits the slave partially."

Volume 3, Book 46, Number 699:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever manumits his share of a slave, then it is essential for him to get that slave manumitted' completely as long as he has the money to do so. If he has not sufficient money to pay the price of the other shares (after the price of the slave is evaluated justly), the manumitted manumits the slave partially in proportion to his share.

Volume 3, Book 46, Number 700:

Narrated 'Ubaidullah:

as above BRIEFLY.

Volume 3, Book 46, Number 701:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

The Prophet said, "He who manumits his share of a slave and has money sufficient to free the remaining portion of that slave's price (justly estimated) then he should manumit him (by giving the rest of his price to the other co-owners)." Nafi' added, "Otherwise the slave is partially free." Aiyub is not sure whether the last statement was said by Nafi' or it was a part of the Hadith.

Volume 3, Book 46, Number 702:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

That he used to give his verdict regarding the male or female slaves owned by more than one master, one of whom may manumit his share of the slave. Ibn 'Umar used to say in such a case, "The manumitted should manumit the slave completely if he has sufficient money to pay the rest of the price of that slave (which is to be justly estimated) and the other share-holders are to take the price of their shares and the slave is freed (released from slavery)." Ibn 'Umar narrated this verdict from the Prophet.

Volume 3, Book 46, Number 703:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

that the Prophet said, "Whoever frees his portion of a (common) slave."

Volume 3, Book 46, Number 704:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "Whoever frees his portion of a common slave should free the slave completely by paying the rest of his price from his money if he has enough money; otherwise the price of the slave is to be estimated and the slave is to be helped to work without hardship till he pays the rest of his price."

Volume 3, Book 46, Number 705:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "Allah has accepted my invocation to forgive what whispers in the hearts of my followers, unless they put it to action or utter it." (See Hadith No. 657 Vol.

Volume 3, Book 46, Number 706:

Narrated 'Umar bin Al-Khattab:

The Prophet said, "The (reward of) deeds depend on intentions, and every person will get the reward according to what he intends. So, whoever migrated for Allah and His Apostle, then his migration will be for Allah and His Apostle, and whoever migrated for worldly benefits or for marrying a woman, then his migration will be for what he migrated for." (See Hadith No. 1, Vol. 1)

Volume 3, Book 46, Number 707:

Narrated Qais:

When Abu Huraira accompanied by his slave set out intending to embrace Islam they lost each other on the way. The slave then came while Abu Huraira was sitting with the Prophet. The Prophet said, "O Abu Huraira! Your slave has come back." Abu Huraira said, "Indeed, I would like you to witness that I have manumitted him." That happened at the time when Abu Huraira recited (the following poetic verse):-- 'What a long tedious tiresome night! Nevertheless, it has delivered us From the land of Kufr (disbelief).

Volume 3, Book 46, Number 708:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

On my way to the Prophet I was reciting:-- 'What a long tedious tiresome night! Nevertheless, it has saved us From the land of Kufr (disbelief).' I had a slave who ran away from me on the way. When I went to the Prophet and gave the pledge of allegiance for embracing Islam, the slave showed up while I was still with the Prophet who remarked, "O Abu Huraira! Here is your slave!" I said, "I manumit him for Allah's Sake," and so I freed him.

Volume 3, Book 46, Number 709:

Narrated Qais:

When Abu Huraira accompanied by his slave came intending to embrace Islam, they lost each other on the way. (When the slave showed up) Abu Huraira said (to the Prophet), "I make you witness that the slave is free for Allah's Cause."

Volume 3, Book 46, Number 710:

Narrated 'Aisha:

Utba bin Abi Waqqas authorized his brother Sad bin Abi Waqqas to take the son of the slave-girl of Zam'a into his custody, telling him that the boy was his own (illegal) son. When Allah's Apostle went (to Mecca) at the time of the Conquest, Sad took the son of the slavegirl of Zam'a to Allah's Apostle and also brought 'Abu bin Zam'a with him and said, "O Allah's Apostle! This is the son of my brother 'Utba who authorized me to take him into my custody." 'Abu bin Zam'a said, "O Allah's Apostle! He is my brother, the son of Zam'a' slave-girl and he was born on his bed." Allah's Apostle looked at the son of the slave-girl of Zam'a and noticed much resemblance (to 'Utba). Allah's Apostle said, "It is for you, O 'Abu bin Zam'a as he was born on the bed of your father." Allah's Apostle then told Sauda bint Zam'a to observe veil in the presence of the boy as he noticed the boy's resemblance to 'Utba and Sauda was the wife of the Prophet .

Volume 3, Book 46, Number 711:

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

A man amongst us declared that his slave would be freed after his death. The Prophet called for that slave and sold him. The slave died the same year.

Volume 3, Book 46, Number 712:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

Allah's Apostle forbade the selling or donating the Wala' of a freed slave.

Volume 3, Book 46, Number 713:

Narrated 'Aisha:

I bought Buraira but her masters put the condition that her Wala' would be for them. I told the Prophet about it. He said (to me), "Manumit her as her Wala' will be for the one who pays the price." So, I manumitted her. The Prophet called Buraira and gave her the option of either staying with her husband or leaving him. She said, "Even if he gave me so much money, I would not stay with him," and so she preferred her freedom to her husband.

Volume 3, Book 46, Number 714:

Narrated Anas:

Some men of the Ansar asked for the permission of Allah's Apostle and said, "Allow us to give up the ransom from our nephew Al-'Abbas. The Prophet said (to them), "Do not leave (even) a Dirham (of his ransom)."

Volume 3, Book 46, Number 715:

Narrated Hisham:

My father told me that Hakim bin Hizam manumitted one-hundred slaves in the pre-lslamic period of ignorance and slaughtered one-hundred camels (and distributed them in charity). When he embraced Islam he again slaughtered one-hundred camels and manumitted one-hundred slaves. Hakim said, "I asked Allah's Apostle, 'O Allah's Apostle! What do you think about some good deeds I used to practice in the prelslamic period of ignorance regarding them as deeds of righteousness?' Allah's Apostle said, "You have embraced Islam along with all those good deeds you did."

Volume 3, Book 46, Number 716:

Narrated Marwan and Al-Miswar bin Makhrama:

When the delegates of the tribe of Hawazin came to the Prophet and they requested him to return their properties and captives. The Prophet stood up and said to them, "I have other people with me in this matter (as you see) and the most beloved statement to me is the true one; you may choose either the properties or the prisoners as I have delayed their distribution." The Prophet had waited for them for more than ten days since his arrival from Ta'if. So, when it became evident to them that the Prophet was not going to return them except one of the two, they said, "We choose our prisoners." The Prophet got up amongst the people and glorified and praised Allah as He deserved and said, "Then after, these brethren of yours have come to us with repentance, and I see it logical to return them the captives. So, whoever amongst you likes to do that as a favor, then he can do it, and whoever of you likes to stick to his share till we recompense him from the very first war booty which Allah will give us, then he can do so (i.e. give up the present captives)." The people unanimously said, "We do that (return the captives) willingly." The Prophet said, "We do not know which of you has agreed to it and which have not, so go back and let your leaders forward us your decision." So, all the people then went back and discussed the matter with their leaders who returned and informed the Prophet that all the people had willingly given their consent to return the captives. This is what has reached us about the captives of Hawazin. Narrated Anas that 'Abbas said to the Prophet, "I paid for my ransom and Aqil's ransom."

Volume 3, Book 46, Number 717:

Narrated Ibn Aun:

I wrote a letter to Nafi and Nafi wrote in reply to my letter that the Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives; the Prophet got Juwairiya on that day. Nafi said that Ibn 'Umar had told him the above narration and that Ibn 'Umar was in that army.

Volume 3, Book 46, Number 718:

Narrated Ibn Muhairiz:

I saw Abu Said and asked him about coitus interruptus. Abu Said said, "We went with Allah's Apostle, in the Ghazwa of Barli Al-Mustaliq and we captured some of the 'Arabs as captives, and the long separation from our wives was pressing us hard and we wanted to practice coitus interruptus. We asked Allah's Apostle (whether it was permissible). He said, "It is better for you not to do so. No soul, (that which Allah has) destined to exist, up to the Day of Resurrection, but will definitely come, into existence."

Volume 3, Book 46, Number 719:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

I have loved the people of the tribe of Bani Tamim ever since I heard, three things, Allah's Apostle said about them. I heard him saying, These people (of the tribe of Bani Tamim) would stand firm against Ad-Dajjal." When the Sadaqat (gifts of charity) from that tribe came, Allah's Apostle said, "These are the Sadaqat (i.e. charitable gifts) of our folk." 'Aisha had a slave-girl from that tribe, and the Prophet said to 'Aisha, "Manumit her as she is a descendant of Ishmael (the Prophet)."

Volume 3, Book 46, Number 720:

Narrated Abu Musa:

Allah's Apostle said, "He who has a slave-girl and educates and treats her nicely and then manumits and marries her, will get a double reward."

Volume 3, Book 46, Number 721:

Narrated Al-Ma'rur bin Suwaid:

I saw Abu Dhar Al-Ghifari wearing a cloak, and his slave, too, was wearing a cloak. We asked him about that (i.e. how both were wearing similar cloaks). He replied, "Once I abused a man and he complained of me to the Prophet . The Prophet asked me, 'Did you abuse him by slighting his mother?' He added, 'Your slaves are your brethren upon whom Allah has given you authority. So, if one has one's brethren under one's control, one should feed them with the like of what one eats and clothe them with the like of what one wears. You should not overburden them with what they cannot bear, and if you do so, help them (in their hard job)."



THIS WILL BE COPIED AND PASTED EVERYWHERE YOU BRING UP THE TOPIC OF SLAVERY IN ISLAM.

[Peter]

SHOULD I COPY AND PAST THE THOUSANDS OF HADITH ON SETTING A SLAVE FREE FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE read-only participantS?

THIS WILL BE COPIED AND PASTED EVERYWHERE YOU BRING UP THE TOPIC OF SLAVERY IN ISLAM.

That would, of course, accomplish nothing more than it did in this case. What you seem to fail to understand is that in order to free one's slave, one must first have had to enslave someone.

The FACT is that slavery will always be a part of Islam because it is perfectly quranic, and Mohammed set the stage with his own imperialistic conquests, and subsequent enslaving of others - sexually and otherwise - as well as trading in slaves. That some Mohammedans had a few spares kicking around, that they could afford to free, is of no consequence.

Indeed slavery wasn't "officially" outlawed in Saudi Arabia and Yemen until 1962, UAE 1963, and Oman in 1970, and then in those countries, only because of outside pressure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolition_of_slavery_timeline
It will always be perfectly legal in Islam, just as Mohammed practiced it. Still practiced widely in Islam controlled parts of the world today.

Here's a good video on "Muslim Black slavery - Islam slave history of Black Africa"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJhSejBDTPI



So rather than pretending that Mohammedanism was about freeing slaves, why don't you recognize that slavery always was part and parcel, with Mohammed and his followers. This was also the most effective conversion tool since even if the captives that were taken refused to convert (like Rayhanah bt. Amr), in all likely hood their offspring would be sufficiently indoctrinated into Mohammed's stand-alone 7th century religion to toe the line.

By the way. The rest of the dithering-on you did in red at the top is immaterial and irrelevant. Let's stick with the facts, through your following of Mohammed, and my following of Jesus Christ.

How many slaves did Jesus capture and sexually violate?
More on Mohammed's slaves and concubines... http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1013.msg6248#msg6248

Even as you have seen the volumes of evidence mounting against Mohammed, you continue to reject YHWH for Mohammed's "Allah", while trying to hide the truth through a bunch of irrelevant dither from the hadith.

I'll merge this with the "Mohammed's Instructions on Prisoners & Slaves" thread to add a little more information. Then every time I mention slavery you can simply reply with a link to that thread where your post will reside.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=456.0

[Mujaheed]

SHOULD I COPY AND PAST THE THOUSANDS OF HADITH ON SETTING A SLAVE FREE FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE read-only participantS?

THIS WILL BE COPIED AND PASTED EVERYWHERE YOU BRING UP THE TOPIC OF SLAVERY IN ISLAM.

That would, of course, accomplish nothing more than it did in this case. What you seem to fail to understand is that in order to free one's slave, one must first have had to enslave someone.

The FACT is that slavery will always be a part of Islam because it is perfectly quranic, and Mohammed set the stage with his own imperialistic conquests, and subsequent enslaving of others - sexually and otherwise - as well as trading in slaves. That some Mohammedans had a few spares kicking around, that they could afford to free, is of no consequence.

Indeed slavery wasn't "officially" outlawed in Saudi Arabia and Yemen until 1962, UAE 1963, and Oman in 1970, and then in those countries, only because of outside pressure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolition_of_slavery_timeline
It will always be perfectly legal in Islam, just as Mohammed practiced it. Still practiced widely in Islam controlled parts of the world today.

Here's a good video on "Muslim Black slavery - Islam slave history of Black Africa"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJhSejBDTPI



So rather than pretending that Mohammedanism was about freeing slaves, why don't you recognize that slavery always was part and parcel, with Mohammed and his followers. This was also the most effective conversion tool since even if the captives that were taken refused to convert (like Rayhanah bt. Amr), in all likely hood their offspring would be sufficiently indoctrinated into Mohammed's stand-alone 7th century religion to toe the line.

By the way. The rest of the dithering-on you did in red at the top is immaterial and irrelevant. Let's stick with the facts, through your following of Mohammed, and my following of Jesus Christ.

How many slaves did Jesus capture and sexually violate?
More on Mohammed's slaves and concubines... http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1013.msg6248#msg6248

Even as you have seen the volumes of evidence mounting against Mohammed, you continue to reject YHWH for Mohammed's "Allah", while trying to hide the truth through a bunch of irrelevant dither from the hadith.

I'll merge this with the "Mohammed's Instructions on Prisoners & Slaves" thread to add a little more information. Then every time I mention slavery you can simply reply with a link to that thread where your post will reside.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=456.0

I am a little inexperienced in the splitting of posts and I should take a little time to figure it out, but thank you pointing it out I will try to be a little neater.

TO ANSWER YOUR OPINION THAT IS HIGHLY FLAWED AND AGAINST GOD I WOULD LIKE YOU TO CONSIDER:

SCENE ONE:
EVER SEE HOMELESS PEOPLE? lost and dirty with no-one to care for them, handouts and the like, kids get no education? How many homeless people in Americas? In the world?
WELL: I have a warm bed and a little food and an education and security behind gates, All you have to do is come live on my property (A MANSION) with gardens, but you work for me and I will take care of you, but no pay and luxury and laziness will be tolerated from you. I wont ill treat you but your freedom will be restricted to my orders. I WILL FREE YOU WITH A GOOD WAGE ONE DAY WHEN YOU EDUCATED IN LIFE SKILLS AND SHOW THAT YOU A GOOD PERSON. I AM PRAYING FOR THE REWARD FROM MY LORD FOR FREEING YOU!

SCENE TWO:
Or I you come work in my garden when I need you but you go back to the streets and I don't even want to hear your problems, go get a cup soup at a soup kitchen if you hungry, go beg and degrade yourself and strip yourself of all your human dignity for money that will be just enough to buy a bread and you can sleep on the streets or under a piece of cardboard for all I care (I'm a freedom loving Christian after all) You will have all the freedom you want to do as you please and If you lucky like me maybe you will be able to rehabilitate your life with a little hardwork 9that does not exist) and lots of prayer in your free time.

CHOOSE A SCENARIO

[Peter]

And there it is. The rationalization process of the mind of a slave master. After all, Islamic slavery could never have been characterized as other than a benevolent pursuit. Least you could do for folks after beheading their husbands, sons and fathers. Downright charitable of him!
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1528.msg5117#msg5117

[Mujaheed]

And there it is. The rationalization process of the mind of a slave master. After all, Islamic slavery could never have been characterized as other than a benevolent pursuit. Least you could do for folks after beheading their husbands, sons and fathers. Downright charitable of him!
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1528.msg5117#msg5117

CHOOSE A SCENARIO!!!!

[Mujaheed]

And there it is. The rationalization process of the mind of a slave master. After all, Islamic slavery could never have been characterized as other than a benevolent pursuit. Least you could do for folks after beheading their husbands, sons and fathers. Downright charitable of him!
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1528.msg5117#msg5117

IS YOUR LOGIC FAILING YOU NOW, Bring me your opinion, here I will allow it!

DO NOT POST ANY LINKS ANSWER THE QUESTION WHAT SCENARIO DO YOU PREFER!!!!

[Mujaheed]

And there it is. The rationalization process of the mind of a slave master. After all, Islamic slavery could never have been characterized as other than a benevolent pursuit. Least you could do for folks after beheading their husbands, sons and fathers. Downright charitable of him!
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1528.msg5117#msg5117

I ANSWERED THAT POST!!!

YOU DID NOT TELL THE WHOLE STORY, DID THE TRIBE BETRAY THE PROPHET"S TRUST AND WERE THEY TRAITORS

AND I ASKED THE QUESTION WHAT IS THE PENALTY FOR TREASON, THE TRIBE WAS TREACHEROUS (TRAITORS) AND MANY MUSLIMS WOULD HAVE LOST THEIR LIVES HAD THE TREACHERY SUCCEEDED


   
New International Version (©1984)
O LORD God Almighty, the God of Israel, rouse yourself to punish all the nations; show no mercy to wicked traitors. Selah

New Living Translation (©2007)
O LORD God of Heaven's Armies, the God of Israel, wake up and punish those hostile nations. Show no mercy to wicked traitors. Interlude

English Standard Version (©2001)
You, LORD God of hosts, are God of Israel. Rouse yourself to punish all the nations; spare none of those who treacherously plot evil. Selah

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
You, O LORD God of hosts, the God of Israel, Awake to punish all the nations; Do not be gracious to any who are treacherous in iniquity. Selah.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
O LORD God of Armies, God of Israel, arise to punish all the nations. Have no pity on any traitors. [Selah]

King James Bible
Thou therefore, O LORD God of hosts, the God of Israel, awake to visit all the heathen: be not merciful to any wicked transgressors. Selah.

American King James Version
You therefore, O LORD God of hosts, the God of Israel, awake to visit all the heathen: be not merciful to any wicked transgressors. Selah.

I like the translation: "transgressors", means any wrongdoer.

[Peter]

IS YOUR LOGIC FAILING YOU NOW, Bring me your opinion, here I will allow it!

DO NOT POST ANY LINKS ANSWER THE QUESTION WHAT SCENARIO DO YOU PREFER!!!!

Certainly not this one

Tabari VIII:38 "The Messenger of Allah commanded that all of the Jewish men and boys who had reached puberty should be beheaded. Then the Prophet divided the wealth, wives, and children of the Banu Qurayza Jews among the Muslims."
Ishaq:465 "When their wrists were bound with cords, the Apostle was a sea of generosity to us."

Ishaq:465 "Then the Apostle divided the property, wives, and children of the Qurayza among the Muslims. Allah's Messenger took his fifth of the booty. He made known on that day the extra shares for horses and their riders - giving the horse two shares and the rider one. A Muslim without a horse got one share of the spoil. It was the first booty in which lots were cast."

Tabari VIII:38 "The Prophet selected for himself from among the Jewish women of the Qurayza, Rayhanah bt. Amr. She became his concubine. When he predeceased her, she was still in his possession. When the Messenger of Allah took her as a captive, she showed herself averse to Islam and insisted on Judaism."

http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1528.0

[Mujaheed]

IS YOUR LOGIC FAILING YOU NOW, Bring me your opinion, here I will allow it!

DO NOT POST ANY LINKS ANSWER THE QUESTION WHAT SCENARIO DO YOU PREFER!!!!

Certainly not this one

Tabari VIII:38 "The Messenger of Allah commanded that all of the Jewish men and boys who had reached puberty should be beheaded. Then the Prophet divided the wealth, wives, and children of the Banu Qurayza Jews among the Muslims."
Ishaq:465 "When their wrists were bound with cords, the Apostle was a sea of generosity to us."

Ishaq:465 "Then the Apostle divided the property, wives, and children of the Qurayza among the Muslims. Allah's Messenger took his fifth of the booty. He made known on that day the extra shares for horses and their riders - giving the horse two shares and the rider one. A Muslim without a horse got one share of the spoil. It was the first booty in which lots were cast."

Tabari VIII:38 "The Prophet selected for himself from among the Jewish women of the Qurayza, Rayhanah bt. Amr. She became his concubine. When he predeceased her, she was still in his possession. When the Messenger of Allah took her as a captive, she showed herself averse to Islam and insisted on Judaism."

http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1528.0

SO YOU REFUSE TO ANSWER MY QUESTIONS AND POST HALF A STORY AGAIN!
DID THE TRIBE of Qurayza, not BETRAY THE TRUST OF THE LEADER OF MADINA WITH THE QURAISH WITH WHOM THEY WERE AT WAR? WERE THEY NOT JUDGED BY ONE THEIR OWN ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE? PLEASE QUOTE THE FULL STORY:

When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it. And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee. And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it: And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee. (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)

So notice the double standards and hypocrisy of these Christians, they are attacking the prophet Muhammad for what happened to the Jews of Banu Qurayza, yet when this is in their own Bible they have no problem with it! The Jewish tribe of Qurayza were judged by their own book, their own law, and if Christians feel this is something detestable then they should go burn their Bible and rip this ruling out of their book.

So let us summarize everything we have:

-The prophet Muhammad was in a treaty with the Qurayza tribe

-The Qurayza tribe broke the treaty

-Once they broke the treaty they were liable for a punishment

-The Qurayza are not innocent

-The prophet Muhammad made Sa'd the leader who would pronounce judgement over the Quryaza tribe

-The prophet did this at the request of the Al-Aus tribe, an ally of Qurayza

-Sa'd a former Jew judged the Banu Qurayza by their own Torah, from Deuteronomy 20

 So when you put all of this together, we see that no crime was committed, and that the Qurayza tribe are far from innocent, and that the prophet Muhammad didn't kill them just for the sake of being Jewish, or because he was supposedly evil.

So in conclusion I would advise the critics of Islam to be more sincere and honest in their arguments.

And Allah Knows Best!

[Peter]

Why any sane person would know that those, 10 year old and up, boys deserved to get their heads cut off!
And the women deserved to get raped and sexually enslaved too!
And those dirty nasty hard working farmers! Of all the nerve. Someone actually believing they should work for a living! They deserved to have everything they worked all their lives for stolen from their families!

And everybody else that got in the Mohammedans way, all the way up to France and Austria! Steal all their stuff! Rape all their women! Now that's what I'm talkin' about!

[Mujaheed]

Why any sane person would know that those, 10 year old and up, boys deserved to get their heads cut off!
And the women deserved to get raped and sexually enslaved too!
And those dirty nasty hard working farmers! Of all the nerve. Someone actually believing they should work for a living! They deserved to have everything they worked all their lives for stolen from their families!

And everybody else that got in the Mohammedans way, all the way up to France and Austria! Steal all their stuff! Rape all their women! Now that's what I'm talkin' about!

I should report you to the moderator, you are skirting around the issue with nothing but your unfounded opinion and allegations, you dont understand because you are confused by the conjecture and lies that you parade as a religion. A clear deviation from the prophets and all your verses requires a double explanation and multiple verse to confirm the first verses authenticity.

SO DID MUHAMMAD FOLLOW THE LAW OF THE BIBLE WHEN HE instituted his punishment? Yes or No

OH I FORGOT YOUR ARROGANCE DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO ANSWER A QUESTION ANY WHERE IN THE THREAD.
YOUR DEVIATION, UNSCRUPULOUS LIES AND DECEIT DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO GIVE A STRAIGHT ANSWER TO ANY QUESTION IN THIS FORUM, INSTEAD A LINK TO THE SAME LIES AND IPINIONS OVER AND OVER AGAIN

ARE YOU AFRAID TO JUDGE BY WHAT IS IN YOUR BIBLE?

DID MUHAMMAD FOLLOW THE VERSE? YES OR NO, SIMPLE AND I DONT MIND IF YOU ELABORATE.

THE WAY YOU INTERPRET EVENTS IS NOTHING BUT AN INDICATION OF YOUR IMMATURITY (OF YOUR MIND) NOT OF YOUR BODY, Your narrow minded bigotry and disbelief in your own bible verses you so love to quote at your convenience is blinding you to the truth and I feel sorry for you. You are trying very hard but in the wrong direction.

[Peter]

DID MUHAMMAD FOLLOW THE VERSE? YES OR NO, SIMPLE AND I DONT MIND IF YOU ELABORATE.

Those instructions at the beginning of God's revelation to primitive mankind, were given to those that were fighting the enemies of God, a couple thousand years before Mohammed.
Mohammed's slaughter of Jews, and all of the other Mohammedan imperialistic conquests and subjugation and slavery, demonstrated that Mohammed and his southwestern Arabian desert dwelling illiterate followers, WERE the enemies of God and His people.

Ishaq:462/Tabari VIII:30 "The Jews said, 'We will never abandon the Torah or exchange it for the Qur'an.' Asad said, 'Since you reject this proposal of mine, then kill your children and your wives and go out to Muhammad and his Companions as men who brandish swords, leaving behind no impediments to worry you. If you die, you shall have left nothing behind; if you win you shall find other women and children.' The Jews replied, 'Why would we kill these poor ones? What would be the good of living after them?'"
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1528.0

Even you pointed out that it wasn't "Allah" or even Mohammed, but Mohammed's buddy Sa'd that Mohammed deferred to, to pass judgment on the Jews. That is to say it was Satan himself, moving in the hearts of those men, to pass and carry out their vile and stunningly reprobate punishment of God's people.

Tabari VIII:34 "Sa'd turned away from the Messenger out of respect. He said, 'I pass judgment that the men shall be killed, the property divided, and the children and women made slaves.' Muhammad replied, 'You have passed judgment on them with the judgment of Allah from above seven heavens.'"

And Mohammed and his fellow cutthroats were engaging in that slaughter 1500 years after the Old Testament prophets had laid down their swords or suggested use of the sword in God's service, and 500 years after Jesus had brought the new covenant that taught us to love one another, and to love our enemies.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=935.0

Mohammed's behavior justified solely by Mohammed's personally created, self-serving "law", covered extensively at the following link. Don't pretend we haven't discussed this at length.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1955.0

[Mujaheed]

DID MUHAMMAD FOLLOW THE VERSE? YES OR NO, SIMPLE AND I DONT MIND IF YOU ELABORATE.

Those instructions at the beginning of God's revelation to primitive mankind, were given to those that were fighting the enemies of God, a couple thousand years before Mohammed.
Mohammed's slaughter of Jews, and all of the other Mohammedan imperialistic conquests and subjugation and slavery, demonstrated that Mohammed and his southwestern Arabian desert dwelling illiterate followers, WERE the enemies of God and His people.

Ishaq:462/Tabari VIII:30 "The Jews said, 'We will never abandon the Torah or exchange it for the Qur'an.' Asad said, 'Since you reject this proposal of mine, then kill your children and your wives and go out to Muhammad and his Companions as men who brandish swords, leaving behind no impediments to worry you. If you die, you shall have left nothing behind; if you win you shall find other women and children.' The Jews replied, 'Why would we kill these poor ones? What would be the good of living after them?'"
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1528.0

Even you pointed out that it wasn't "Allah" or even Mohammed, but Mohammed's buddy Sa'd that Mohammed deferred to, to pass judgment on the Jews. That is to say it was Satan himself, moving in the hearts of those men, to pass and carry out their vile and stunningly reprobate punishment of God's people.

Tabari VIII:34 "Sa'd turned away from the Messenger out of respect. He said, 'I pass judgment that the men shall be killed, the property divided, and the children and women made slaves.' Muhammad replied, 'You have passed judgment on them with the judgment of Allah from above seven heavens.'"

And Mohammed and his fellow cutthroats were engaging in that slaughter 1500 years after the Old Testament prophets had laid down their swords or suggested use of the sword in God's service, and 500 years after Jesus had brought the new covenant that taught us to love one another, and to love our enemies.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=935.0

Mohammed's behavior justified solely by Mohammed's personally created, self-serving "law", covered extensively at the following link. Don't pretend we haven't discussed this at length.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1955.0

pLEASE DO NOT REFER TO PROPHETS OF GOD AS PRIMITIVE YOU IGNORAMUS, (THEY CAME WITH THE SOPHISTICATION OF WORSHIP.
So what you saying is that your god changes the laws and his mind?
WHERE IS THE INSTRUCTION TO "LAY DOWN THE SWORD" WHEN REVELATIONS CLEARLY SAYS THAT "THE SWORD OF GOD WILL BE USE TO SMITE THEM" DO YOU CONJECT THAT IT MEANS THAT "THE WORDS OF LOVE IS GOING TO HURT THEM"?

MORE LIES POURED ONTO MORE LIES

YOU SUCH BAD LIAR. WE DISCUSSED NOTHING ABOUT MUHAMMAD, YOU MAKE ACCUSATIONS UNFOUNDED AND BASED ON SNIPPETS OF HADITH AND QURAN AND COME UP WITH AN ABSURD ARGUMENT AND CALL IT A DISCUSSION. CAN YOU NOT SEE HOW RIDICULOUS YOU ARE!!! I MUST NOT PRETEND? WE DID NOT DISCUSS IT AT LENGHT, YOU DID NOT ANSWER MY QUESTIONS INSTEAD YOU CAME UP WITH RIDICULOIUS ACCUSATIONS WITH ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF OF YOUR STATEMENTS EXCEPT YOUR OWN DISTORTIONS>

the jews said they will not abandon the Torah (they were willing to follow all the laws?)

[Peter]

DID MUHAMMAD FOLLOW THE VERSE? YES OR NO, SIMPLE AND I DONT MIND IF YOU ELABORATE.

Those instructions at the beginning of God's revelation to primitive mankind, were given to those that were fighting the enemies of God, a couple thousand years before Mohammed.
Mohammed's slaughter of Jews, and all of the other Mohammedan imperialistic conquests and subjugation and slavery, demonstrated that Mohammed and his southwestern Arabian desert dwelling illiterate followers, WERE the enemies of God and His people.

Ishaq:462/Tabari VIII:30 "The Jews said, 'We will never abandon the Torah or exchange it for the Qur'an.' Asad said, 'Since you reject this proposal of mine, then kill your children and your wives and go out to Muhammad and his Companions as men who brandish swords, leaving behind no impediments to worry you. If you die, you shall have left nothing behind; if you win you shall find other women and children.' The Jews replied, 'Why would we kill these poor ones? What would be the good of living after them?'"
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1528.0

Even you pointed out that it wasn't "Allah" or even Mohammed, but Mohammed's buddy Sa'd that Mohammed deferred to, to pass judgment on the Jews. That is to say it was Satan himself, moving in the hearts of those men, to pass and carry out their vile and stunningly reprobate punishment of God's people.

Tabari VIII:34 "Sa'd turned away from the Messenger out of respect. He said, 'I pass judgment that the men shall be killed, the property divided, and the children and women made slaves.' Muhammad replied, 'You have passed judgment on them with the judgment of Allah from above seven heavens.'"

And Mohammed and his fellow cutthroats were engaging in that slaughter 1500 years after the Old Testament prophets had laid down their swords or suggested use of the sword in God's service, and 500 years after Jesus had brought the new covenant that taught us to love one another, and to love our enemies.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=935.0

Mohammed's behavior justified solely by Mohammed's personally created, self-serving "law", covered extensively at the following link. Don't pretend we haven't discussed this at length.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1955.0

pLEASE DO NOT REFER TO PROPHETS OF GOD AS PRIMITIVE YOU IGNORAMUS, (THEY CAME WITH THE SOPHISTICATION OF WORSHIP.

I would only refer to Mohammed that way 1. because he was not a prophet but THE false prophet and 2. because he was illiterate and 3. because he was cut off from the civilized world, in the southeast Arabian desert. What do you think he spent a lot of time in a library of history in Mecca? FLAT OUT IGNORANT.

That's why his "SOPHISTICATION OF WORSHIP" resulted in his adopting, and then adapting, the Quraish black stone moon god idol, to his created religion. Their rituals too.

So what you saying is that your god changes the laws and his mind?

No He steadily executes His plan for mankind, and steadily revealed the unfolding of His plan to us over 1600 years, completing the record of His plan in the 1st century with the coming of the Messiah and the new covenant He brought. It is mankind that changed over those 1600 years of His revelation to us.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=935.0
When God brought a new covenant through Jesus Christ, he had the temple torn down just as Jesus prophesied it would be, so there would only be one clear path to Him. Through Jesus Christ the Messiah.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/matthew_24_olivet_discourse.htm#matt_24_1
Does that mean YHWH changed his mind? No it means He followed His plan, just as He announced in advance through prophesy, back during the old covenant, of the new covenant that came through the Messiah.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=537.0

WHERE IS THE INSTRUCTION TO "LAY DOWN THE SWORD" ........

It would only need to be stated in those words for someone with the mental power of a 7th century Arabian desert dwelling illiterate (not dissimilar to Deedat's diminished capacity regarding Jesus' divinity http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1931.0 )

That's why Mohammedanism is the only religious cult on earth that is engaged in the murder of imperialistic conquest, sorely deceived into believing that murder is of God, all because of a single, 7th century, southwest Arabian desert dwelling, morally reprobate, false prophet. Just as prophesied.

John 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

[Peter]

....... WHEN REVELATIONS CLEARLY SAYS THAT "THE SWORD OF GOD WILL BE USE TO SMITE THEM" DO YOU CONJECT THAT IT MEANS THAT "THE WORDS OF LOVE IS GOING TO HURT THEM"?

Revelation describes events at final judgment IN THE FUTURE after Jesus returns to pour out judgment on satan's followers, that murder others that refuse to follow satan with them, and bow to Quraish black stone idols, for example. It's a description of events, not a call to engage in imperialistic slaughter during the Christian era, until then. That Mohammedans have, and do engage in imperialistic conquest, is how we know Islam is of satan and the enemy of God's people. Jesus told us how to live until then.

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

The murder of imperialistic conquest you approve, and desire to engage in, is purely of Satan, just as scripture prophesied of the enemies of God's people, and as the hadith above shows Mohammedanism has been since it's inception. The enemy of God's people.

MORE LIES POURED ONTO MORE LIES

YOU SUCH BAD LIAR. WE DISCUSSED NOTHING ABOUT MUHAMMAD, .....

But anyone who clicked on the link http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1955.0 learned that you are lying about our not having discussed that you follow MOHAMMED'S LAW and you admitting to it. We have a whole thread that is titled that wherein you admitted that you follow Mohammed's 7th century law. You know, the self-serving law of all the wives he wanted but only for him, of Mohammed getting 1/5 of the property stolen from others, just like a Mafia Don, Mohammed getting a "revelation" to facilitate his stealing his stepson's only wife.

But then that isn't all that makes you a liar.

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

...... YOU MAKE ACCUSATIONS UNFOUNDED AND BASED ON SNIPPETS OF HADITH AND QURAN AND COME UP WITH AN ABSURD ARGUMENT AND CALL IT A DISCUSSION. CAN YOU NOT SEE HOW RIDICULOUS YOU ARE!!! I MUST NOT PRETEND? WE DID NOT DISCUSS IT AT LENGHT, YOU DID NOT ANSWER MY QUESTIONS INSTEAD YOU CAME UP WITH RIDICULOIUS ACCUSATIONS WITH ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF OF YOUR STATEMENTS EXCEPT YOUR OWN DISTORTIONS>

the jews said they will not abandon the Torah (they were willing to follow all the laws?)

What distortion? You freely admitted that you follow Mohammed's 7th century "law" http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1955.0

[Peter]

Do not post any more on this thread, or in this forum, until you address these specific posts.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1911.msg8394#msg8394
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1912.msg8386#msg8386
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1938.msg8396#msg8396

[Mujaheed]

....... WHEN REVELATIONS CLEARLY SAYS THAT "THE SWORD OF GOD WILL BE USE TO SMITE THEM" DO YOU CONJECT THAT IT MEANS THAT "THE WORDS OF LOVE IS GOING TO HURT THEM"?

Revelation describes events at final judgment IN THE FUTURE after Jesus returns to pour out judgment on satan's followers that murder others that don't follow satan, and bow to Quraish black stone idols, for example. It's a description of events, not a call to engage in imperialistic slaughter until then. That Mohammedans have, and do engage in imperialistic conquest, is how we know Islam is of satan and the enemy of God's people. Jesus told us how to live until then.

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

The murder of imperialistic conquest you approve, and desire to engage in, is purely of Satan, just as scripture prophesied of the enemies of God's people, and as the hadith above shows Mohammedanism has been since it's inception. The enemy of God's people.

MORE LIES POURED ONTO MORE LIES

YOU SUCH BAD LIAR. WE DISCUSSED NOTHING ABOUT MUHAMMAD, .....

But anyone who clicked on the link http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1955.0 learned that you are lying about our not having discussed that you follow MOHAMMED'S LAW and you admitting to it. We have a whole thread that is titled that wherein you admitted that you follow Mohammed's 7th century law. You know, the self-serving law of all the wives he wanted but only for him, of Mohammed getting 1/5 of the property stolen from others, just like a Mafia Don, Mohammed getting a "revelation" to facilitate his stealing his stepson's only wife.

But then that isn't all that makes you a liar.

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

...... YOU MAKE ACCUSATIONS UNFOUNDED AND BASED ON SNIPPETS OF HADITH AND QURAN AND COME UP WITH AN ABSURD ARGUMENT AND CALL IT A DISCUSSION. CAN YOU NOT SEE HOW RIDICULOUS YOU ARE!!! I MUST NOT PRETEND? WE DID NOT DISCUSS IT AT LENGHT, YOU DID NOT ANSWER MY QUESTIONS INSTEAD YOU CAME UP WITH RIDICULOIUS ACCUSATIONS WITH ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF OF YOUR STATEMENTS EXCEPT YOUR OWN DISTORTIONS>

the jews said they will not abandon the Torah (they were willing to follow all the laws?)

What distortion? You freely admitted that you follow Mohammed's 7th century "law" http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1955.0

You seem to putting words into my mouth and ascribing things to me as you generally do with everything. I repeat that I follow the Quran of ALLAH (you mistakenly call it Muhammads law)

I BOW DOWN TO ALLAH
I WORSHIP ALLAH THE LORD AND CREATOR OF EVERYTHING
ALLAH THAT DOES NOT HAVE A BEGINNING NOR ENDING (in the beginning was the word and the word was GOD, what beginning? nothing was created, so is the word created and if so is god created?by whom? John 1:1

ALLAH DOES NOT SLUMBER SLEEP OR BECOME TIRED AND DOES NOT REST, (on the seventh day the lord rested?)
ALLAH is not absurd or illogical or ahuman being or any of the PAGAN ideas the Christaians ascribe to him.)
ALLAH That is alone without equal or partner or son

KJV John
9 That was the true Light, which lights every man that comes into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came to his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

The only one that would wish something like this 9not born of blood is SATAN)


I have read the bible several times and it cannot compare with the QURAN, it is obviously human hand and mind that is engaged in misleading mankind from the obedience to ALLAH (THE GOD)


WE ARE CALLING EACH OTHER LIARS BECAUSE WE ARE ON TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT WAVELENGTHS I AM ON TRUTH AND CLARITY YOU CLEARLY ON MYSTERY AND CONJECTURE AND INSINUATIONS>

[Peter]

Before I get into the specifics of your lying, I will give you the benefit of the doubt that perhaps you didn't see the post above your most recent one, before posting. Please engage in the necessary dialogue at those links now.