Who Was THE False Prophet in preterism?

[Peter]

Who was THE false prophet of the book of Revelation?
In the following verse we find "the false prophet" mentioned along with the "beast".

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Through the traditional continuous-historic context, in conjunction with an adjacent hermeneutic, it isn't hard to recignize Islam as the kingdom "beast" of Revelation 13, and thus Muhammad the false prophet of the book of Revelation. Indeed, how many places in scripture are the figures of lion, bear and leopard mentioned along with the term "beast", let alone when used in the figurative language of a dream or vision in prophecy?
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/the_beast.htm (added link 3-25-18)
http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthrea...-Revelation-13

Nor should this be a surprise when we consider that 1.5 billion people - one fourth part of mankind - must deny the crucifixion of Christ and reject the blood of the Lamb of God that would save them as an article of their faith in Muhammad, and commit the most egregious and only unforgivable sin ("shirk") before Muhammad's alter-ego "Allah", if a follower of Muhammad were to confess that Jesus is the Son of God. A sin worse than child rape or cold blooded murder to a follower of Muhammad.
http://www.petewaldo.com/unforgivable_shirk.htm  (added link 3-25-18)
http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthrea...=1#post3250933

So who was THE false prophet according to preterism?

[Peter]

One would think with Revelation declaring that the "beast" and "the false prohpet" being cast into the lake of fire, folks would be a little more interested in the passage. But then it doesn't conform to their English translated to "this" in Matthew 24.
Here are some of the replies before they tossed in the towel:
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One of the 1st century AD Jew false prophets was named as the sorcerer Barjesus in Acts 13:6. But the majority of them were unnamed and generalized all into one group of Jewish false prophets about the messiah Christ in the 1st century AD. See Matt 7:15, Matt 24:11-24(false Christs included), Mark 13:22(false Christ's included), 2 Peter 2:1, and 1 John 4:1, for example. So the false prophet is more of a corporate symbol in Revelation, then one particular man.
______________________

I tend to agree. It was the collective 'spirit' or perspective and [dis]belief which rejected [rejects] Christ's coming and lordship while looking for another Chirst or for a 'future' christ rather than the one who came in meekness and in favor of humanity. Anti-Christ = False Prophet = Liar

_____________________

[Peter]

"One of the 1st century AD Jew false prophets was named as the sorcerer Barjesus in Acts 13:6. But the majority of them were unnamed and generalized all into one group of Jewish false prophets ........."

I realize how you must desperately want to believe that, and there are certainly verses that reference false prophets in general. But your doctrine has made you blind yourself to the article "the" in reference to the singular false prophet that is cast alive into the lake of fire with the devil and the beast.
http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthrea...-Revelation-13

(Greek/English Interlinear (tr) NT) Revelation 20:10 kai <2532> {AND} o <3588> {THE} diaboloV <1228> {DEVIL} o <3588> {WHO} planwn <4105> (5723) {MISLEADS} autouV <846> {THEM} eblhqh <906> (5681) {WAS CAST} eiV <1519> {INTO} thn <3588> {THE} limnhn <3041> tou <3588> {LAKE} puroV <4442> {OF FIRE} kai <2532> {AND} qeiou <2303> {OF BRIMSTONE,} opou <3699> {WHERE [ARE]} to <3588> {THE} qhrion <2342> {BEAST} kai <2532> {AND} o <3588> {THE} yeudoprofhthV <5578> {FALSE PROPHET;} kai <2532> {AND} basanisqhsontai <928> (5701) {THEY SHALL BE TORMENTED} hmeraV <2250> {DAY} kai <2532> {AND} nuktoV <3571> {NIGHT} eiV <1519> {FOR} touV <3588> {THE} aiwnaV <165> {AGES} twn <3588> {OF THE} aiwnwn <165> {AGES.}

This verse and individual is obviously no small matter, yet you toss out "oh, well maybe this, oh well maybe that..." as if it's irrelevant, because Alcazar's eschatology doesn't give you a clue.

This even as you can see 1/4 of mankind in the grip of THE false prophet Muhammad that must deny the crucifixion of Christ, and commit the most unforgivable sin before Muhammad's pagan god "Allah" if a follower of the false prophet Muhammad were to confess that Jesus is the Son of God. Articles of their faith in the false prophet Muhammad.

Let alone the restoration of Jews with sovereign control over their land and city, while becoming the geo-political focus of the whole world.

I can see how someone in the 17th century might have bought into Alcazar's invention, even though the reformers didn't. But in light of the 1400 year historical, and present day realities ...... ? Ah the power of indoctrination.

"....... about the messiah Christ in the 1st century AD. See Matt 7:15, Matt 24:11-24(false Christs included), Mark 13:22(false Christ's included), 2 Peter 2:1, and 1 John 4:1, for example. So the false prophet is more of a corporate symbol in Revelation, then one particular man."

[Peter]

So then Pete,
are the dead rotting bones of Muhammed going to be cast into the lake of fire,
(a) in the future,
or were the dead rotting bones of Muhammed
(b) already cast into the lake of fire or
(c) in the process of being cast into the lake of fire.

Can you answer this multiple choice question with a simple
(a), (b), (c) answer.

If you can't/won't answer this simple ABC question, then
no reader at Carm will take your false prophet Muhammed doctrine seriously.

[Peter]

"Ok, you want the one guy false prophet then? It was most likely the high priest Caiaphas(Matt 26:3) who was the ringleader in the crucifixion of the Christ."

But who killed Jesus?

"Christ told Caiaphas to his face he would live to see his own judgment(Matt 26:57-68), and Caiaphas did."

So what did Caiaphas prophesy? What group recognized/es him as a prophet? Seems to me the Jews believed their prophets past, and scriptures closed, by his day.

the false prophet
New Testament Greek Definition:
5578 pseudoprophetes {psyoo-dop-rof-ay'-tace}
from 5571 and 4396; TDNT - 6:781,952; n m
AV - false prophet 11; 11
1) one who, acting the part of a divinely inspired prophet, utters
falsehoods under the name of divine prophecies
2) a false prophet

[Peter]

Why can't you answer this simple question Pete???
are the dead rotting bones of Muhammed going to be cast into the lake of fire,
(a) in the future,
or were the dead rotting bones of Muhammed
(b) already cast into the lake of fire or
(c) in the process of being cast into the lake of fire.

Can you answer this multiple choice question with a simple
(a), (b), (c) answer.

If you can't/won't answer this simple ABC question, then
no reader at Carm will take your false prophet Muhammed doctrine seriously.

[Peter]

Act 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by [that] man whom he hath ordained; [whereof] he hath given assurance unto all [men], in that he hath raised him from the dead. 32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this [matter].

Act 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

2Ti 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; 18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

[Peter]

"I tend to agree. It was the collective 'spirit' or perspective and [dis]belief which rejected [rejects] Christ's coming and lordship while looking for another Chirst or for a 'future' christ rather than the one who came in meekness and in favor of humanity. Anti-Christ = False Prophet = Liar"

"I LIKE IT!

We have to be accepting symbolism here."

[Peter]

"I LIKE IT!

We have to be accepting symbolism here."

You mean you desperately need to create symbolism, because your eschatology renders you as blind to the false prophet Muhammad and his Islamic "beast", only a little more than futurist eschatology has to Darby's followers. However I didn't notice a metaphorical suggestion in the definition. But then inserting symbolism where it doesn't belong must come naturally, from having to gnosticize scripture to conform it to Alcazar's eschatology.

Except of course when it actually comes to symbols in parables and figurative language of dreams and visions, and then the lion, bear and leopard are just wild animals, a fig tree is just a fig tree, and the temple John's measuring is a literal temple - as if it were a historical event - in order to advance false dating of the book of Revelation.

[Peter]

"I tend to agree. It was the collective 'spirit' or perspective and [dis]belief which rejected [rejects] Christ's coming and lordship while looking for another Chirst or for a 'future' christ rather than the one who came in meekness and in favor of humanity. Anti-Christ = False Prophet = Liar"

Sure! Why not jumble a bunch more terms together! Not bad enough that futurists combine antichrist, that man of sin, little horn and the beast together as if they were the same, let's throw in the false prophet along with them! There's some real exegesis.
http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthrea...t-all-the-same

I didn't reply to your post as I answered it in the post to brown, but visited the link to see how you mixed it all in together, after noble quoted your post.

[Peter]

Was the Jew Barjesus called a false prophet in Acts 13? What was the difference between him and Caiaphas when it came to preaching against the true messiah Christ?

Both are named false Jewish prophets in the scriptures. But most of the many false prophets in the Bible are unnamed and generalized into one group together as false prophets. There were too many in 1st century Jerusalem to name them all. But they were all judged by 70 AD in the Jew/Roman war, just as the Christ said they would be.
___________________

Muhammed's dead rotting body will get resurrected at the GWTJ of Rev.20:11-15 and His Soul/spirit that is in the Hell side of Hades will reunite with it and then get Tossed into the LOF along with death & hell! This will take place at the END of the Millennium ( 1000 year ) Kingdom after Satan get loosed for a short season ( Rev.20:7-10 ) for His FINAL Revolt! So Smith ALL of Your so Called Choices are Null & Void - Get It?! Dead Rotting Bones NEVER get tossed into the LOF, ONLY Resurrected living ones along with the rest of his Body ( Flesh & Bone ) will get tossede in after the 1000 years when his Body gets resurrected unto Damnation at the GWTJ of Rev.20:11-15!
____________________

[Peter]

"Was the Jew Barjesus called a false prophet in Acts 13? What was the difference between him and Caiaphas when it came to preaching against the true messiah Christ?

Both are named false Jewish prophets in the scriptures. But most of the many false prophets in the Bible are unnamed and generalized into one group together as false prophets. There were too many in 1st century Jerusalem to name them all. But they were all judged by 70 AD in the Jew/Roman war, just as the Christ said they would be."

Why not put the two names in a hat and shake it around and pull one out as being important enough to be referenced in that verse in Revelation? Meanwhile 1.5 billion people - one fourth part of mankind - must deny the crucifixion of Christ and reject the blood of the Lamb of God that would save them as an article of their faith in Muhammad, and commit the most egregious and only unforgivable sin ("shirk") before the false prophet Muhammad's alter-ego "Allah", if a follower of Muhammad were to confess that Jesus is the Son of God. A sin worse than child rape or cold blooded murder to a follower of Muhammad.

The same guys that are out to conquer all kingdoms of the world and subjugate all people - that's YOUR heirs - to prostrating themselves toward the Quraish pagan's black stone idol in Mecca five times a day and praying in the "vain repetitions of the heathen" while calling on the name of the Arabian pagan's deity "Allah".

[Peter]

you could be a false prophet also because you claim that bible prophecy is still continuing to be fulfilled.

You are the one who denies that the Messiah fulfilled his first century promises and prophecies
to his bride in John 14:2.

God will judge anyone who denies that the second coming came in 70ad
when not one stone was left upon another.

This was the clear sign for the climax of all Bible prophecy.

Mat 24:2 could only have been fulfilled during the 30-70ad generation.

No rational Bible student can extend this generation beyond the 70ad
fixed time boundary.

So while Muhammed denies the first coming, you still deny the second coming.
Now, Who is more of a false prophet?

Only God will judge.

[Peter]

"you could be a false prophet also because you claim that bible prophecy is still continuing to be fulfilled.

You are the one who denies that the Messiah fulfilled his first century promises and prophecies
to his bride in John 14:2.

God will judge anyone who denies that the second coming came in 70ad
when not one stone was left upon another.

This was the clear sign for the climax of all Bible prophecy.

Mat 24:2 could only have been fulfilled during the 30-70ad generation.

No rational Bible student can extend this generation beyond the 70ad
fixed time boundary.

So while Muhammed denies the first coming, you still deny the second coming."

As has a near unanimity of the church throughout the Christian era, including even those who hold the eschatologies popularized in the 20th century church, of partial-preterism and futurism.

"Now, Who is more of a false prophet?

Only God will judge."

Indeed.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

And when I see folks in this forum section mysticize scripture like gnostics to suggest the Second Coming of Christ is past, let alone what your understanding has accomplished in you.....

.....I find comfort in being among the vast, indeed overwhelming majority of Christians for 2,000 years, in regard to our understanding that the Second Coming of Christ is an event that is yet to come.

[Peter]

"What I liked and responded to goes back to this statement by Brown....
'So the false prophet is more of a corporate symbol in Revelation, then one particular man.'
Yes, to look for the identity of one person is meaningless."

Which perfectly illustrates how an eschatologically blinded 20th century church left, what has today become 1.5 billion antichrists, hanging out to dry - one fourth part of mankind - that must deny the crucifixion of Christ and reject the blood of the Lamb of God that would save them as an article of their faith in the false prophet Muhammad, and commit the most egregious and only unforgivable sin ("shirk") before Muhammad's alter-ego "Allah", if a follower of Muhammad were to confess that Jesus is the Son of God. A sin worse than child rape or cold blooded murder, to a follower of the false prophet Muhammad.

[Peter]

"Which perfectly illustrates how an eschatologically blinded 20th century church left, what has today become 1.5 billion antichrists, hanging out to dry - one fourth part of mankind - that must deny the crucifixion of Christ and reject the blood of the Lamb of God that would save them as an article of their faith in the false prophet Muhammad, and commit the most egregious and only unforgivable sin ("shirk") before Muhammad's alter-ego "Allah", if a follower of Muhammad were to confess that Jesus is the Son of God. A sin worse than child rape or cold blooded murder, to a follower of the false prophet Muhammad."

I have never really looked into Islam at all. I chose Christianity a long time ago, it makes sense to me so I stuck with it.

I didn't realize I was 'drying' any Muslims but so be it I guess. Are you sure Confucius was the false prophet? That Joe Smith guy comes to mind too.

[Peter]

"I have never really looked into Islam at all."

It was completely off your radar screen, as it was for the rest of the church over the last century, while Islam was being nurtured (the Islamic beast was being healed) by western wealth transfer.

"I chose Christianity a long time ago, it makes sense to me so I stuck with it."

Some of us Christians believe that to stick with Christianity obligates us to share the Good News with others so they can enjoy a life in Christ too.

"I didn't realize I was 'drying' any Muslims ........."

To "leave someone hanging out to dry" means to "blow somebody off", or "leave them high and dry", treat them as if they weren't there, or make plans with someone and then "stand them up". How much effort have you put into sharing the Good News with Muslims? Only Jesus can save someone, but how much time have members of your church shared in regard to strategies to help point Muhammad's sorely deceived followers in the right direction?

"....... but so be it I guess. Are you sure Confucius was the false prophet?"

I pray that Hindus, or Buddhists or whoever else follows some random religion, while remaining ignorant to the Gospel, will be saved through their ignorance.

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression.

"That Joe Smith guy"

Joseph Smith was A false prophet from the 19th century (as was William Miller, Ellen White, Mary Baker Eddy, Edward Irving, Charles Taze Russell (at least false teacher), etc. etc. ad nauseum).

2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Today 1.7% of U.S. citizens (where Joseph Smith's cult is centered) follow his false Gospel ("The Restored Gospel"), however I'm pretty sure they do all believe that Jesus is the Son of God that died on the cross to save all from sin who have faith in His shed blood. I believe a person is saved by the condition of our heart, not the doctrine we keep, so I pray that even victims of some pretty badly twisted "Christian" cults may be saved.

On the other hand 1.5 billion people - 1/4 of mankind - follow THE false prophet Muhammad as his followers have for the last 1400 years. Each and every one of them is compelled deny the crucifixion of Christ and thus the blood of the Lamb of God that would save them, as an article of their faith in the false prophet Muhammad.

Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

If a Muslim confesses that Jesus is the Son of God he has committed the most egregious, and only unforgivable sin, before Muhammad's god "Allah". A sin worse than child rape or cold blooded murder. That makes those 1.5 billion people - each and every one - an antichrist.

Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

Islam is to Christianity as the negative is to a photograph. The only anti-a-specific-religion cult in the world.

1Jo 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

In other words their cult is not some random religion like Hinduism, but is the EXACT OPPOSITE of Christianity, by design. They must reject the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel. They engage in thinly veneered pagan Arabian Star Family and jinn-devil worship rituals that the Arabians participated in long before Muhammad came along. They continue to pray in the name of the Arabian pagan's deity "Allah" too.

It has also been their assigned duty for the last 1400 years, to conquer all kingdoms of the world, and subjugate all people to Muhammad's followers. That includes prostrating oneself to the very same black stone idol five times a day, that the Quraish pagan's venerated before Muhammad, while praying in the "vain repetitions of the heathen" as the scriptures call it. That is they are out to subjugate YOUR HEIRS. With two million killed or displaced by Muhammad's followers in the Sudan alone. At the present rate of Muslim population explosion even Sweden will be ruled under Islamic sharia law within two generations, with Holland close behind.

Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Can you see a difference between those two cults?

"comes to mind too."

Some liberal churches are even inviting Imams in to share their lies and subterfuge ("taqiyyah") with their unsuspecting flocks. The Saudis spend about 20 billion a year in the U.S. building Islamic centers which often morph into mosques. I read about a church in England where Muslim women are teaching Sunday school. Here in the U.S. I saw a picture of a school of Mormon children prostrating themselves toward the Quraish pagan's black stone idol (though I doubt they knew they were) in an act of ecumenical "koom bye ya". One pope kisses the Quran, and another bows toward Mecca from inside a mosque, in cowardly acts of "reconciliation". Here is how blind, or worse - cowardly (didn't anyone on the Vatican Council read the Quran?), that largest wing of the church is to what Islam is:

"Declaration on the Relation of the Church to Non-Christian Religions
The Second Vatican Council
Promulgated by His Holiness Pope Paul VI
October 28, 1965
Paul, Bishop, Servant of the Servants of God, together with the Fathers of the Sacred Council. For Everlasting Memory.

3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself, merciful and all-powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth (5), who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes great pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgement when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting."

How much less blind than that is your church?

It shouldn't matter what doctrine or eschatology a church holds, to be able to recognize the monumental task before us, yet where are the organized efforts at outreach?

[Peter]

"Are you saying that Muhammad is the false prophet in Revelation? If so, how can this be? Muhammad is not a Jew? Or am I misunderstanding you?"

Another good example of doctrine induced blindness.
Where does the book of Revelation say the false prophet must be a Jew?

[Peter]

etc. etc.