While part 2, the following was actually my first reply to the PM detailed in Part 1. I worked a long time and then accidentally erased my work with an errant key stroke. That's one reason I moved to the forum where I could keep saving my work. You don't need to waste time with the preliminaries and my efforts to get friendofutube to join me in the forum. You can go directly to the first substantive post of this Part 2 discussion by clicking the following link -
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1046.msg4027#msg4027
I wrote in YouTube PM
Dear friend, I just spent the better part of an hour in reply, but hit an errant button on my keyboard and lost my work. Perhaps it was of the Lord so I don't squander time in this dark alley of personal messaging. Did you ever realize that the reason you don't want to discuss Mohammed, in the light of your own books, is because they show him to be an abject reprobate?
Rather than reconstructing my reply, suffice it to say that all of the subjects you brought up are covered in great detail in the forum. A link to it is available on each of my videos as well as on my channel page or copy and paste the below link. Let's move out of this dark alley and into the light, shall we? Select any username and password you choose. I look forward to seeing you there.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php
friendofutube2009's reply
[[[[[[REPLY: Thanks for the reply although I was a little bit sad for I was expecting a point-by-point rebuttal of the arguments that I raised regarding the divinity of Jesus. Well, if it is really true that you spent an hour composing your reply (which I doubt), then I am not in a hurry to have it. You can do in one, two, three days, even weeks and I dont mind. I do not like a forum or the Youtube comment because they are too cramped for me. You as a heavy weight in your field and me just a student of comparative religion, need an arena just for you and me. Moreover, I write profusely and therefire I do not like the forum or comment style way of discussion. I am challenging you now and it is only between YOU and ME.
Well, I mentioned in my first email to you regarding mud-slinging, right? Now, you are starting it. My response to you on not discussing the Last Prophet (pbuh) in the light of my won Book is in kind and goes like this:
Did you ever realize that the reason you don't want to discuss Jesus as God, in the light of your own books, is because it shows him NOT to be God? Next time, I will reply in kind for you mud-slinging.
Thanks for your inviting me to the forum. But I do not need your reply there. I want a reply from you in this ONE-ON-ONE. By the way, all the arguments that I mentioned are not meant to be answered in toto and in one setting. You can answer them one at a time, for example, point 1 today, point 2 next and so on. I am not in a hurry and I want this to be between YOU and ME. This is not a dark alley. In fact, like two boxers, you and I will be in focus between ourselves and only the two of us. But if you are getting cold feet, then its up to you to turn down the challenge.
YOU SAID: Mohammed's religion is the STUNNINGLY PERFECT OPPOSITE of Christianity. The 23 year record of rec...
REPLY: If you mean Pauline Christianity, then I AGREE with you 100% that Islam is the stunning perfect opposite of Christianity. As you well know, Jesus (pbuh) NEVER EVER said in any chapter of your Bible that his religion is CHRISTIANITY! The word Christian was first used by the pagans in Antioch to call the first followers of Jesus (Acts 11:26). And as you well know, the first followers of Jesus called the Nazarenes NEVER EVER believed Jesus to be God or part of a triune God nor call their religion Christianity. Now let me compare Muhammeds belief with Jesus peace be upon them both. I will mention only THREE IDENTICAL teachings of Jesus (pbuh) and Muhammed (pbuh) vis-à-vis Paul and you decide who is IDENTIFICAL and OPPOSITE.
A GOD
- Jesus says ONE GOD: And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: Mark 12:29
- Muhammed (pbuh) says ONE GOD: Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; Quran 112:1
- Pauline Christian: the Father is God, the Son God, and the Holy Spirit God; and yet not three Gods but one God. So the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord; and yet not three Lords but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by Christian truth to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be both God and Lord; so are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say, there be three Gods or three Lords.. In other words, TRINITY, THREE-IN-ONE God. However, you explained this as ONE will NEVER EVER make it ONE. Worse, Jesus NEVER EVER preached this!
COMMENTARY: Jesus (pbuh) and Muhammed (pbuh) are IDENTICAL on the contrary Jesus and Paul OPPOSITE.
B SALVATION
- Jesus (pbuh) says you are saved by faith and works: keep the commandments. Matthew 19:17 and For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:20
- Muhammed (pbuh) says you are saved by faith and works: By (the Token of) Time (through the ages), Verily Man is in loss, Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy.
- Pauline Christian says faith ONLY: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. - Romans 10:9
COMMENTARY: Jesus (pbuh) and Muhammed (pbuh) are IDENTICAL on the contrary Jesus and Paul OPPOSITE.
C FOLLOWING THE LAW Circumcision and kosher
- Jesus (pbuh) says he did not come to destroy the Law: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.. He was circumcised (Luke 1:59) and NEVER ATE pork as per the Law laid out in Deuteronomy 14:8 And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.
- Muhammeds (pbuh) followers are well-known to be circumcised and would NEVER EVER ate pork like Jesus (pbuh).
- Pauline Chrisitians: Paul and all Pauline Christians like you abolished circumcision in 1 Corinthians 7:18: Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.. Paul allowed the eating of swine and since then every Christian meal is not complete without ham, pork, etc.
COMMENTARY: Jesus (pbuh) and Muhammed (pbuh) are IDENTICAL on the contrary Jesus and Paul OPPOSITE.
Therefore, your statement Mohammed's religion is the STUNNINGLY PERFECT OPPOSITE of Christianity. should be revised to Paul's religion of Christianity is the STUNNINGLY PERFECT OPPOSITE of Jesus(pbuh) religion.
In the hope, that you will work on your point-by-point rebuttal on my arguments that Jesus is NOT God, I am reproducing it here in case you hit again the wrong button in your keyboard and deleted my previous email to you:
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< START >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>]]]]]]
Then he went on to copy and paste a repeat of what I copy and pasted into Part 1
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1043.0
[[[[REPLY: Thanks for the reply although I was a little bit sad for I was expecting a point-by-point rebuttal....]]]]
Which you can easily find in the forum.
Do you wonder why you prefer the dark alley of personal messaging? Absence of accountability perhaps?
If you want me to read further than the quoted above, you need to post in there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEfKpgiYgHY
[[[[YOU SAID: Which you can easily find in the forum. Do you wonder why you prefer the dark alley of personal messaging? Absence of accountability perhaps? If you want me to read further than the quoted above, you need to post in there.
REPLY: Do you wonder why you prefer the forum? Absence of courage to face me ONE-ON-ONE, perhaps?]]]]]
I can devote a thread entirely to a one-on-one in the forum, as I have many times as you can see from the preface in the section "copy and pasted and active chats with Muslims".
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=32.0
[[[[[ If you want me to consider your reply as a sign of surrender, just turn down the offer and I will stop.]]]]
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=32.0
But what I offered is a venue where we can quote each other, and quote quotes, etc. to keep our conversation perfectly organized.
But what you prefer is an absence of accountability and to lurk in the dark alley of personal messaging.
[[[[[Remember, I do not want you to refute all the arguments at once. You can refute ONLY ONE now and then proceed later. You can even copy and paste your forum answer to any of the points that I mention. Is that fair enough?
If your feet is getting cold, just say so and I will stop this discussion.
Awaiting your reply...]]]]]
It is you that suffers the cold feet and runs away from a venue where our conversation can be perfectly organized, while being one-on-one, if you prefer.
I don't want to squander more of my time in a dark alley with cowards that fear the light of day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sk3fKY9PhY
At this point I sent the message that appears in Part 1
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1043.0
[[[[[I have seen your quotations of Bukhari related to sex, murder, etc which are explained and refuted well by our ulemas and other Islamic scholars.]]]]
Almost forgot this. Muammar Qaddafi tried to run away from the hadith like you are too.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=892.0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc3vcr_MQYM
Look how much nicer it works in the forum.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1043.0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUUXG0z0bPE
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:08:17 AM
friendofutube2009's reply
[[[[[[REPLY: Thanks for the reply although I was a little bit sad for I was expecting a point-by-point rebuttal of the arguments that I raised regarding the divinity of Jesus. Well, if it is really true that you spent an hour composing your reply (which I doubt), then I am not in a hurry to have it. You can do in one, two, three days, even weeks and I dont mind. I do not like a forum or the Youtube comment because they are too cramped for me. You as a heavy weight in your field ........
I don't know what would give you that impression.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:08:17 AM........ and me just a student of comparative religion, need an arena just for you and me. Moreover, I write profusely.....
Then the disappearing content and lack of accountability of the PM format must be frustrating for you.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:08:17 AM..... and therefire I do not like the forum or comment style way of discussion. I am challenging you now and it is only between YOU and ME.
You have a misunderstanding of the forum. There are many one on one chats with me.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:08:17 AM
Well, I mentioned in my first email to you regarding mud-slinging, right? Now, you are starting it. My response to you on not discussing the Last Prophet (pbuh) in the light of my won Book is in kind and goes like this:
Did you ever realize that the reason you don't want to discuss Jesus as God, in the light of your own books, is because it shows him NOT to be God? Next time, I will reply in kind for you mud-slinging.
But this, of course, is a false premise since I do discuss it, have a whole forum section devoted to it, and even included some in reply to your "Son of man" comment in Part 1
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1043.msg4004#msg4004
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:08:17 AMThanks for your inviting me to the forum. But I do not need your reply there. I want a reply from you in this ONE-ON-ONE.
That is exactly what I set up there, in 2 dedicated threads now.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:08:17 AMBy the way, all the arguments that I mentioned are not meant to be answered in toto and in one setting. You can answer them one at a time, for example, point 1 today, point 2 next and so on.
The forum offers a perfect venue for that as the other chats with Muslims demonstrate that sometimes go on for weeks. All the work is handy to find, well organized, and also searchable with the search function.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=32.0
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:08:17 AMI am not in a hurry and I want this to be between YOU and ME. This is not a dark alley.
Of course it is. The exchange would only be viewable by your and my eyes, unlike the forum where other Muslim read-only participants can benefit from it.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:08:17 AMIn fact, like two boxers, you and I will be in focus between ourselves and only the two of us.
What you mean is you like to hide in the dark alley of personal messaging. Why are you so afraid of others being able to observe our conversation?
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:08:17 AMBut if you are getting cold feet, then its up to you to turn down the challenge.
YOU SAID: Mohammed's religion is the STUNNINGLY PERFECT OPPOSITE of Christianity. The 23 year record of rec...
REPLY: If you mean Pauline Christianity, then I AGREE with you 100% that Islam is the stunning perfect opposite of Christianity.
But why pick on Paul when you must REJECT ALL of the new covenant prophets and witnesses, and the whole subject of the new covenant which is Jesus Christ and His blood that would save you, to follow Mohammed's STAND-ALONE 7th century religion?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=54.0
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:08:17 AMAs you well know, Jesus (pbuh) NEVER EVER said in any chapter of your Bible that his religion is CHRISTIANITY!
He never said the word Bible either. So what?
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:08:17 AMThe word Christian was first used by the pagans in Antioch to call the first followers of Jesus (Acts 11:26).
CHRISTians follow Jesus CHRIST - the Messiah.
Just as MOHAMMEDans follow MOHAMMED.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:08:17 AMAnd as you well know, the first followers of Jesus called the Nazarenes NEVER EVER believed Jesus to be God or part of a triune God nor call their religion Christianity.
I am sure that your claims are patently false of any Christian group, but your claim is of course irrelevant because any cult that did or does not believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, or that Jesus is God, or rejects the Spirit of God, rejects the Word of God.
1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven,
the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:08:17 AMNow let me compare Muhammeds belief with Jesus peace be upon them both. I will mention only THREE IDENTICAL teachings of Jesus (pbuh) and Muhammed (pbuh) vis-à-vis Paul and you decide who is IDENTIFICAL and OPPOSITE.
A GOD
- Jesus says ONE GOD: And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: Mark 12:29
That's exactly right. Christians worship one God.
Jhn 10:30 I and [my] Father are one.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:08:17 AM
- Muhammed (pbuh) says ONE GOD: Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; Quran 112:1
- Pauline Christian: the Father is God, the Son God, and the Holy Spirit God; and yet not three Gods but one God.
That's right. They are all God. But if you deny God has a Spirit you aren't even a Muslim.
Sura 32:9 But HE fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into him something OF HIS SPIRIT. And He gave you (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye give!
Sura 16:102 Say, the HOLY SPIRIT has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=174.0
That you reject the hundreds of verses that describe the relationship between Jesus Christ the Son of God, and God His Father, is of course necessary, to follow Mohammed's 7th century STAND-ALONE religion. Indeed rejecting that Jesus is the Son of God is part of the most important fundamental in Mohammed's religion.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=56.0
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=316.0
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=55.0
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:08:17 AMSo the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord; and yet not three Lords but one Lord.
Foolishly ignorant and false.
God has a Spirit.
God manifest, or revealed, Himself through the flesh of Jesus Christ. They are one, from the beginning.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=40.0
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:08:17 AMFor like as we are compelled by Christian truth to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be both God and Lord; so are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say, there be three Gods or three Lords.. In other words, TRINITY, THREE-IN-ONE God. However, you explained this as ONE will NEVER EVER make it ONE. Worse, Jesus NEVER EVER preached this!
More lies and blasphemy. It's exactly what Jesus preached.
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying,
All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: What you mean is that you have chosen to adopt the child-like mind of a 7th century illiterate to try to understand God.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:08:17 AM
COMMENTARY: Jesus (pbuh) and Muhammed (pbuh) are IDENTICAL on the contrary Jesus and Paul OPPOSITE.
Silly to pick on Paul when you must REJECT ALL of the new covenant witnesses. Indeed John does a far better job of describing Mohammedan Islam and the fate of Mohammed's followers. (Bolding mine)
1John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] HE THAT HATH NOT THE SON OF GOD HATH NOT LIFE.
2John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath BOTH the Father AND THE SON.
Do you believe the record that God gave of His Son? If not what did God make you?
1John 5:10 He that BELIEVETH ON THE SON OF GOD hath the witness in himself: HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT GOD HATH MADE HIM A LIAR; because HE BELIEVED NOT THE RECORD that God gave OF HIS SON.
What else are you?
1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? HE IS ANTICHRIST, THAT DENIETH the Father and THE SON. 23 WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE FATHER: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].
You see? You are an antichrist, in spite of what deceivers who create their own bible verses to delude you into believing otherwise, like Ahmed Deedat lie to you poor folks. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=273.0
And Mohammedan's fates?
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT THE SON SHALL NOT SEE LIFE, BUT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDETH ON HIM.
That's John's testimony, my friend, not Paul's. And the Gospel writers warned us about such as Mohammed.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
But Mohammed even came as a ravening wolf.
The PERFECT OPPOSITE of Jesus.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9Rdej28pP4
Leading another 1.5 billion to their destruction in the world today.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:08:17 AM
B SALVATION
- Jesus (pbuh) says you are saved by faith and works: keep the commandments. Matthew 19:17 and For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:20
But this may not have been much of a measure, since the Pharisees were lost in their own traditions, just like Mohammedans.
Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:08:17 AM
- Muhammed (pbuh) says you are saved by faith and works:.....
Roman Catholics believe we are saved by works too. Indeed there are many parallels between the Roman Church and Islam. Like murder of those that don't agree with their religions doctrine, for one (historically speaking for the Roman Church, currently for Islamic fundamentalists that GET Islam).
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=512.0
But that isn't what the Word of God teaches.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that
not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Here's what all our good works mean to God, in light of our iniquities.
Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
That "filth rags" is a reference to used womens ministration cloths. It doesn't matter how much sin we commit as the price is the same.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Here's the key.
Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:08:17 AM..... By (the Token of) Time (through the ages), Verily Man is in loss, Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds,.....
Deeds are the natural
result of salvation, not the path to salvation.Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:08:17 AM...... and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy.
But the false prophet Mohammed's false STAND-ALONE 7th century religion, is the EXACT OPPOSITE of the new covenant......
Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "WE KILLED CHRIST Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- BUT THEY KILLED HIM NOT, NOR CRUCIFIED HIM, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, FOR OF A SURETY THEY KILLED HIM NOT:-
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!
...... just as Mohammed was the EXACT OPPOSITE of Jesus Christ.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=336.0
Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them
Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mohammed's phony Ka'aba rock god even cursing God's people
Surah 9.30 THE JEWS CALL 'UZAIR A SON OF ALLAH, AND THE CHRISTIANS CALL CHRIST THE SON OF ALLAH. That is a saying from their mouth; (In this) they but imitate what the Unbelievers of old used to say. ALLAH'S CURSE BE ON THEM: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:08:17 AM
- Pauline Christian says faith ONLY: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. - Romans 10:9
We are saved through faith. Perhaps some are deceived by proof texting a verse - devoid of understanding - as you did, but that isn't what the Word of God teaches.
Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say,
Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand:
repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Mar 6:12 And they went out, and preached that men should
repent.
Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but,
except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=repent&t=KJV&sf=5
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:08:17 AM
COMMENTARY: Jesus (pbuh) and Muhammed (pbuh) are IDENTICAL .......
Filthiest blasphemy yet. They were EXACT OPPOSITES as shown earlier in this post.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1046.msg4030#msg4030
And particularly as covered in the Mohammed section.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=53.0
Mohammed's phony Ka'aba rock god even cursing God's people.
Surah 9.30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:08:17 AM......... on the contrary Jesus and Paul OPPOSITE.
C FOLLOWING THE LAW Circumcision and kosher
- Jesus (pbuh) says he did not come to destroy the Law: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil..
Which He did when He brought a new covenant, as prophesied many hundreds of years earlier by Jeremiah.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=537.0
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:08:17 AMHe was circumcised (Luke 1:59) and NEVER ATE pork .......
What Jesus taught is if someone believes that getting circumcised, or not eating pork, or believing that salvation comes through any other act of the flesh and will get you into the kingdom of God, then you are sorely deceived.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:08:17 AM........ as per the Law laid out in Deuteronomy 14:8 And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.
- Muhammeds (pbuh) followers are well-known to be circumcised and would NEVER EVER ate pork like Jesus (pbuh).
- Pauline Chrisitians: Paul and all Pauline Christians like you abolished circumcision in 1 Corinthians 7:18: Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised..
As I showed you earlier
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee,
Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Jeremiah 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
1Cr 6:19 What? know ye not that
your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
It's about being born again and filled with the Holy Spirit, my friend.
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But
he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.
All your pagan rituals, like Mohammedan heathen style prayer to Mohammed's phony Ka'aba rock god, won't get you there my friend.
Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
The Gospel is about relationship with God through Jesus Christ, not vain pagan rituals to the last surviving Ka'aba rock god.
1Th 5:17 Pray without ceasing.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:08:17 AMPaul allowed the eating of swine and since then every Christian meal is not complete without ham, pork, etc.
COMMENTARY: Jesus (pbuh) and Muhammed (pbuh) are IDENTICAL on the contrary Jesus and Paul OPPOSITE.
Therefore, your statement Mohammed's religion is the STUNNINGLY PERFECT OPPOSITE of Christianity. should be revised to Paul's religion of Christianity is the STUNNINGLY PERFECT OPPOSITE of Jesus(pbuh) religion.
You distract yourself with foolishness thinking God is about pork and ham, even as the false prophet Mohammed taught the EXACT OPPOSITE of the whole subject of the Gospel, forcing you to reject the very blood that would save you.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=54.0
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:08:17 AM
In the hope, that you will work on your point-by-point rebuttal on my arguments that Jesus is NOT God, I am reproducing it here in case you hit again the wrong button in your keyboard and deleted my previous email to you:
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< START >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>]]]]]]
Then he went on to copy and paste a repeat of what I copy and pasted into Part 1
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1043.0
Received the PM that follows, quoted in it's entirety, with replies.
First I replied in PM
__________________
"Look how much nicer for two boxers to fight it out ONE-ON-ONE. Your filthy forum is your turf and it contains all the allies...."
Adopting the illiteracy of your false prophet. I already said our conversation can be limited to the 2 of us as I have many times in the past.
Now you are simply trying to create a device to run away from truth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEfKpgiYgHY
_________________
As time permits I will continue to respond.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 09:11:32 AM
YOU SAID: Look how much nicer it works in the forum.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1043.0
JESUS - ISA part 1
Comments & Discussion: http://petewaldo.com/inde...
Verses: http://www.islamandthetruth...
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
REPLY: First, you do not need to post any PM in the Comment area as I always monitor more the Inbox rather than the Comment area.
Look how much nicer for two boxers to fight it out ONE-ON-ONE. Your filthy forum is your turf and it contains all the allies, amenities, sinister secret weapons and entourage you have who will always help you in case you are defeated (which I am sure of). Youtube is a neutral ground for every fighter worth his salt to engage in a ONE-ON-ONE fight.
But of course if I depended on others help, I could seek it whether I am chatting in the forum, or in a YouTube PM. The difference is that in the forum we can post live links, and organize conversations, and better hold each other accountable for past words.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 09:11:32 AM
It does NOT offer advantage to you and me. It is a VERY FAIR battleground between us ONLY YOU AND ME! Did that sink in? Please do NOT entice me again to fall in your trap!
Yea, it sank in. You prefer dark alleys rather than mutual accountability, and you desire to hide what you are going to write, from the eyes of others. I would too if I followed Mohammed. I have repeatedly told you the conversation in the forum would remain between you and I.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 09:11:32 AM
Your enclosed video entitled JESUS ISA part 1 which contains a quotation of John 3:!6 is typical anti-Islamist trick.
The Word of God isn't a trick my friend. That video, Part 1 and Part 2 contain not a single verse, but over a hundred verses that declare Jesus Christ to be the Son of God.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUUXG0z0bPE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfKRDbjpVqg
Here are text versions
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=56.0
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=55.0
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 09:11:32 AMYou should know WELL your Bible if you are really that deep in your theology. The fact that you do NOT know the reality of this verse proves to me that you are just a copy and paste anti-Islamist paid (by Church or Zionist) ......
Regarding my being "paid" I specifically prohibit donations in the first line of my websites and the welcome section of this forum. Not even any Google click ads either here or in my websites.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 09:11:32 AM...... robot to discredit Islam because your church pews are emptying to mosques in your area.
No surprise that Islam grows, through populating like bunnies in Western welfare states, and through oppression in other areas.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU
Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for WIDE [IS] THE GATE, AND BROAD [IS THE WAY, THAT LEADETH TO DESTRUCTION, and many there be which go in thereat:
As it should be since apostasy was prophesied, while it would seem Mohammed was mentioned in the same section.
2Thes 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first.... (or apostasy)
Now for the Mohammedan Islam part.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 [EVEN HIM],WHOSE COMING IS AFTER THE WORKING OF SATAN with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because THEY RECEIVED NOT THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, THAT THEY SHOULD BELIEVE A LIE: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
This even though over 6 million Muslims come to Christ Jesus every year, in Africa alone, according to Al-Jazeerah.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdVnILalpeo
The information age has allowed Muslims to see exactly what Mohammed was all about - according to Islam's own books!
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=53.0
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 09:11:32 AM
Re John 3:16 This verse is NOT from the lips of Jesus. If you look at your red-lettered Bible, it is NOT red and therefore NOT Jesus statement.
That would certainly be a ridiculous way to study scripture. To save the quotes of Jesus and throw the rest out.
2Ti 3:16
All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
But then what do you make of this quote of Jesus?
Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=54.0
Shall I put it in red for you? How about this quote of Jesus?
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, ALL POWER IS GIVEN UNTO ME IN HEAVEN AND IN EARTH. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 09:11:32 AMIt is forced down throw his throat and now you are thumb sucking it. Worse, the word begotten is expunged in the RSV 1972 as fabrication and NOT found in MOST ancient MSS. Who removed it? It is removed by 32 Christian eminent Bible scholars backed by 50 cooperating denominations Now the current verse is as follows:
For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16
But Mohammedans still have to reject the verse because if you confess that Jesus is the Son of God you will have committed the most egregious and only pardonable sin (shirk) in Mohammed's 7th century religion. Just as you have to reject all of the verses that describe the relationship between God the Father and His
only Son (as you quoted), Jesus Christ.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=316.0
But the term "begotten" certainly isn't all the compromised modern versions left out. That's why they keep being revised back toward the KJV. I don't know what kind of "scholars" you are quoting (likely another Ahmed Deedat lie) but let's look at the Koine Greek word translated as begat and begotten
(KJV) 1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth
him that begat loveth him also
that is begotten of him.
The reference to "Him that begat" is of course a reference to God and "that is begotten of him" to Jesus Christ and His having been conceived by a virgin by the will of God. Of course nothing to do with God actually having sex with Mary, as some 7th century desert dwelling illiterate might imagine,
yet Mary did conceive God's only begotten Son. Even Muslims believe Jesus was uniquely created, in just this way, from all other people born in the history of the world. They would say that God said "be", and Mary became pregnant with Jesus.
The Greek word translated as "begat" from Strong's definitions:
him that
begatNew Testament Greek Definition:
1080
gennao {ghen-nah'-o}
from a variation of 1085; TDNT - 1:665,114; v
AV -
begat 49, be born 39, bear 2, gender 2, bring forth 1,
be delivered 1, misc 3; 97
1)
of men who fathered children1a)
to be born1b)
to be begotten1b1) of women giving birth to children
2) metaph.
2a) to engender, cause to arise, excite
2b) in a Jewish sense, of one who brings others over to his
way of life, to convert someone
2c) of God making Christ his son
2d) of God making men his sons through faith in Christ's work
We can see from the word count that
the Greek word "gennao" is translated as "begat" (or "begotten") 49 times in the King James bible.
To make the preposterously ignorant claim that it is translated wrong in the above verse, would obviously require that ALL 49 INSTANCES OF IT WERE TRANSLATED WRONG because "gennao" is the same word used in each instance.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=55.0
Old Testament prophecy:
Psalms 2:7 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Psa/Psa002.html#7) I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me,
Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee. New Testament:
Act 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again;
as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.Jhn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of
the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Jhn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time;
the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].
Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that
he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of
the only begotten Son of God.Hbr 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time,
Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
Hbr 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him,
Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.1Jo 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us,
because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
1Jo 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat
loveth him also that is begotten of him.1Jo 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but
he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
You are just too hung up on a word that Mohammed was too illiterate to understand and conceptualize.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 09:11:32 AM
Now you are telling me that Jesus (pbuh) is a begotten son of God?
It's about what the Word of God tells us. If God didn't cause Mary to conceive Jesus, who did?
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 09:11:32 AMProve to me from the lips of Jesus (pbuh) that he said so! If you cannot and of surety you cannot then expect to be roasted in the Hellfire for blasphemy against God whom Jesus (pbuh) as his Father.
But it is you and the rest of Mohammed's Islamic beast that blaspheme God, just as prophesied. Even exchanging God's name for the name of the pagan moon god rock idol of the Ka'aba that you bow to 5 times a day.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 09:11:32 AM
YOU SAID: Almost forgot this. Muammar Qaddafi tried to run away from the hadith like you are too. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=892.0
REPLY: Again, I think you missed what I said in my first email. That we should ONLY discuss pure dogma and tenet of our belief .......
That's what I did, through Islamic scholars from the most prestigious Islamic university in the world, in regard to your trying to distance yourself from the hadith.
"Libya's leader MuammaQaddafi once declared that he no longer believed in anything besides the Quran and that he had abandoned all of the prophet Mudammad's teachings (hadith).
The Islamic world was shocked. Islamic scholars at Al-Azhar University in Egypt and other Islamic authorities in Saudi Arabia were disturbed greatly. The world of Islam formed a committee of scholars to go and meet with Libya's leader so they could discuss the matter with him personally.
Sheikh Mohammed Al-Gazoly, a scholar from Al-Azhar University, led the committee to Libya. The committee warned the Libyan leader about the result of his decision. They told him that if he did not repent and take back his statement, he would fall under the law of renegades and infidels. They said that according to Al-Qaeda Al-Faquhia he was denying many of the Islamic truths, which would force true Muslims to kill him. In light of this information, the leader of Libya repented and took back his statement. The committee went back from Libya to Cairo and announced Qaddafi's decision to repent to the whole Islamic world."
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 09:11:32 AM..... and NOT resort to the usual Youtube mud-slinging and character assassination of the Last Prophet (pbuh)......
But it is Islam's books that assassinate Mohammed's character. Like rape of still-married prisoners.
Surah 4:24 Also (prohibited are) women already married,
except those whom your right hands possess:...
In regard to dogma you can pretend that Islamic dogma is anything you want it to be.
You could also pretend that Roman Church dogma represents Christianity, but according to the Word of God it doesn't.
We need to stick to dogma or tenants only as they are confirmed by our respective books, and stick to our books themselves.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 09:11:32 AM...... or any of the Muslims, past and present, ordinary or ruler. Because at the end of the day, the followers of my faith and yours cannot be used to judge the truth of the dogma and tenet of our respective religions.
Indeed. However if you are already trying to excuse away violent Muslims you will fail, because according to the Quran and hadith and 1400 years of Islamic history, they are the guys that GET Islam, and try hardest to copy the behavior of Mohammed, as revealed through your own books.
That as directly opposed to Christian behavior from following Jesus Christ.
Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 09:11:32 AMI urge you to please stick to pure dogma and tenet like God, Salvation, Sin and others. But since you punched below the belt, I have to respond.
I'll stick to the books.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 09:11:32 AM
You see, your famous president, Thomas Jefferson, in his writings entitled Works, he ran away from Paul and considered him to be a destroyer of the teaching of Jesus.
You broke your own rule in the very next sentence.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 09:11:32 AMLet your President say it to you: "Of this band of dupes and impostors, Paul was the great Corypheus, and first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus" (Works, Vol. iv, p. 327)). Even Jesus, he almost consider him as an impostor: "If we could believe that he [Jesus] really countenanced the follies, the falsehoods, and the charlatanism which his biographers [Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John,] father on him, and admit the misconstructions, interpolations, and theorizations of the fathers of the early, and the fanatics of the latter ages, the conclusion would be irresistible by every sound mind that he was an impostor" (Works, Vol. iv, p. 325)..
Sorry but I do now want to bring your dead president to speak to you but you punched below the belt and I have to respond in kind. Next time, please do not do this again because every repository of antics you have is found in me too. Deal?
Why would it matter to me what Jefferson had to say? Are you trying to suggest that quoting the hadith is hitting below the Islamic belt? That would make you a "renegade" "infidel", according to Islamic scholars.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=892.0
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 09:11:32 AM
What you are doing now is making mockery of Jesus (pbuh) and you are blaming Islam for it.
Quoting the Word of God is not making a mockery of Jesus. Rejecting ALL of God's prophets and witnesses as they are revealed in His 1600 year record, that God's people have followed through two covenants for 3500 years, to follow the 23 year, 7th century record, of A SINGLE "prophet" who has no fulfilled prophecy, who not a single person ever heard "Allah's" or Gabriel's voice speak to, who never performed a single miracle, whose Ka'aba god even gave him special "revelations" to heap on himself all the wives he wanted - but only for him - and gave him another revelation to enable him to steal his monogomous step-son's only wife, is making a mockery of Jesus, my friend.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 09:11:32 AMIn fact, Islam rescued him from your stupid assertion that he is god, part of a triune god, begotten son, killed himself for the sin of mankind. All these pagan and false belief were forced down upon the throat of Jesus (pbuh) which he NEVER EVER preached and now you are thumb sucking it and want everyone in the world to thumbsuck it too! Nah, man! Your church pews are now emptying into the mosque carpets. Even your pastors are praying now in mosques and attracting converts in thousands. See this website: http://yusufestes.com/.
I cover Yusuf Estes buffoonery in this thread. By his own admission he was never a Christian, because he put mammon before God.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=517.0
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 09:11:32 AM
In your video, NOT THE SAME GOD, you qouted a verse, thus, Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for the.... Now, tell me, how do you reconcile what you qouted to the verses?
-Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
Indeed how could someone so completely ignorant to the Gospel, such as you demonstrate, reconcile that?
Why not try reading the Gospel some time? http://www.islamandthetruth.com/gospel_of_john.htm
You are soooo prophesied, my friend.
2Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be ... FALSE ACCUSERS ... despisers of those that are good,
Who is speaking in the parable Jesus is delivering? Who is Jesus quoting?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKyQkiaqNPs
Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay [them] before me.
Does this verse suggest that Jesus was engaged in, or taught, violence against others?
While Jesus is speaking, the words in the quoted verse above aren't attributable to Jesus.
Jesus is delivering a parable and the words in the verse above are what Jesus is quoting the "nobleman" in His story as saying. It's obvious in the context below.
First it is important to understand why Jesus spoke in parables:
Mar 4:9 And he said unto them, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. 10 And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable. 11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God:
but unto them that are without, all [these] things are done in parables: 12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and [their] sins should be forgiven them.So it's no surprise that Mohammed's unwashed followers don't get it. Several Muslims I have encountered search the New Testament for something that Jesus preached, or did, that was more violent than overturning the tables of the moneychangers. The reason being that they wish that Jesus was guilty of the things that their imperialistic 7th century "prophet" Mohammed was. But they are taught through the Quran that Jesus was absolutely sinless, so such a search is really quite misguided for a Muslim to undertake. Mohammed was, and taught, the EXACT OPPOSITE of Jesus. When I see such an exercise as this Luke 19:27 being removed from context and falsely presented, being repeated so frequently, I usually find that it has Ahmed Deedat's fingerprints all over it.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=119.0
There is no excuse for being so lazy as to take someone's word for what the bible says, since access to electronic bibles is so easy. Just type a few words of a verse, or the book and verse number in the following link and you can read any verse in context: http://www.blueletterbible.org/
Default is the King James Version. The most widely used and respected English version, based on the Textus Receptus or majority Greek text - the "received text".
These folks put their effort into
MISunderstanding God's Word and thus become straight-up
accusers of Jesus Christ. Those are the last shoes that I would want to be caught dead in, when standing in judgment before Jesus Christ.
John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
But we should expect it:
2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers,
false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
So much effort is put into accusing Jesus that many
knowingly FALSELY accuse Jesus then their minions follow like sheep. Let's look at the passage with a little more context:
Luk 19:11 And as they heard these things,
he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
Luk 19:12 He said therefore,
A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
Luk 19:13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
Luk 19:14
But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this [man] to reign over us.Luk 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
Luk 19:16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
Luk 19:17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
Luk 19:18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
Luk 19:19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
Luk 19:20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, [here is] thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
Luk 19:21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
Luk 19:22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, [thou] wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
Luk 19:23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
Luk 19:24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give [it] to him that hath ten pounds.
Luk 19:25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)
Luk 19:26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
Luk 19:27
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay [them] before me.
Luk 19:28 And when he had thus spoken, he went before, ascending up to Jerusalem.
If you want to study with the Greek Textus Receptus Interlinear, a quick drop down menu can be found at this link: http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm
(however I caution against using the
New King James which that site uses as it's default bible)
This parable is a lesson in what we are expected to do with the gifts that God gives us. Simply summarized, we can hide or ignore them and suffer the consequences, or use them and multiply them and be rewarded.Since there are no accounts of Jesus going to battle in the New Testament, except in the spiritual sense, or Jesus using a sword against anyone, or recommending using a sword against anyone
indeed we are to love our enemies, so when we see reference to a sword it is usually a reference to the one that I carry and use throughout this forum and related websites:
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and
the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:Hbr 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
In fact, even in the Old Testament, the prophets laid down swords, or suggestion of the use of the sword in God's service, 1500 years before Mohammed was born. Neither Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Micah, Amos, Malachi nor any other later Hebrew prophet is described as using the sword or prescribing its use.
Jesus is going to return to earth. The following verse is a part of the description of the final harvest when EVERYONE will be sorted out:
Rev 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast [it] into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
A parable is a story that Jesus used to illustrate a point. The passage above begins at the parable's beginning, and ends when Jesus finishes telling the story, and then heads up to Jerusalem.
God's Word cannot be understood by someone putting their effort into MISunderstanding. Here's why:
1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
So we have to first surrender ourselves, and then put our effort into understanding, and ask God for guidance through the Holy Spirit. Jesus will help even the unregenerate with understanding, if they are willing to put their trust in Him.
This is particularly important regarding this parable passage.
Until we repent and are forgiven we can't expect to understand parables. But once we live a life with Christ Jesus, God's Holy Word opens up to us, and it is a wonderful blessing to see it like a giant woven tapestry. A time line that runs from the very beginnings of mankind, until we Gentiles were given a new covenant through Jesus Christ's shed blood, allowing us to be saved along with the Jews.
Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and [that] they will hear it.
Indeed, the very term Jew was redefined, at least in the spiritual sense:
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.
So as saved Christians it would seem that we may be more Jew, then even a genealogical Jew, that is an atheist or agnostic. While some regenerate Jews may have been prevented from recognizing Jesus as their Messiah:
http://www.israelinbibleprophecy.com/spirit_of_slumber.htm
It all boils down to faith, and having such
a love of the truth that we ferret out exactly where it lies. I was taught Christian futurist doctrine by a televangelist who has been on TV for over 50 years. I pounded it into myself with tapes and books for 12 or so years. At the time I was taught it I didn't even know any other view of Revelation existed in the church! Eventually, once I began to write about the doctrine, the Lord led me to overcome that pop-19th century eschatology, and it was truly a blessing. Today my bible study becomes ever clearer.
Here is what should be a terrifying passage for those that don't share a love of the truth:
2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9
[Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish;
because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUc_9pVUiI4
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 09:11:32 AM
-Matthew 34-36 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
-Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
We have excellent examples of these verses manifest in Islamic "honor" killings, where fathers and brothers kill their own daughters and sisters, for coming to the truth of Jesus Christ.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=54.0
Indeed 1400 years - and continuing - of Islamic slaughter of God's people as well as Muslims that Islamic antichrists consider "apostates" because they have come to know the love of the one true God through Jesus Christ.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=51.0
Here's a mother that had her own son thrown off a 3rd floor mall balcony for converting to Christianity - in Canada. Mohammedans keep getting the video censored from YouTube so I uploaded it to my godtube channel.
http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=88d267dba53d454cb1ed
But what did Jesus mean by a "sword"?
Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. 13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; 15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and
the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:Again that sword:
Rev 2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with
the sword of my mouth. Hbr 4:12 For the
word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Rev 19:15 And
out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
The same sword that causes Mohammedan men to murder their own family members for coming to the truth that is in Jesus Christ - the Word of God.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him,
I am the way,
the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 09:11:32 AM
Regarding NOT THE SAME GOD, you should have known better than in the OT, God is called El, Elohim, Adonai, YHWH, etc , BUT NEVER EVER Father.
It just struck me that every time you frame something with NEVER EVER, you come up with some of your most preposterous nonsense.
Isaiah 64:8 But now,
O LORD, thou [art] our father; we [are] the clay, and thou our potter; and we all [are] the work of thy hand.
01
'ab {awb}
a root; TWOT - 4a; n m
AV - father
1205, chief 2, families 2, desire 1, fatherless + 0369 1,
forefathers + 07223 1, patrimony 1, prince 1, principal 1; 1215
1) father of an individual
2) of God as father of his people
"God the Father is the title and attribution given to God in many monotheist religions. In the Israelite religion and its closest modern relative, Talmudic Judaism, God is called Father because he is the creator, law-giver, and protector."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_the_Father
And of course the Gospel refers to God as the Father at least 234 times. Many, of course Jesus' own declarations.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=316.0
Again, Mohammed's religion always the EXACT OPPOSITE.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=148.0
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 09:11:32 AMIt is your NT writers that drastically changed this to Father, thereby necessitating a Son and your pagan-influencedd Church has a leeway to created Jesus (pbuh) as NOT ONLY his son but a begottern at that like the pagan triune god of Osiris, Horus, Ra, etc. So your NT God you called as the Father or sometimes you call as Christ Jesus the Lord is totally different from the God of Moses, Abraham, David and other OT prophet peace be upon them all.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 09:11:32 AM
YOU SAID: Look how much nicer it works in the forum.
But it is not strange that God in OT is similar to God in Islam ONE, MERCIFUL, etc. One of the OT name for God is El or Elohim which is linguistically similar to Allah since the two semitic languages Hebrew (Aramaic) are sister languages. Now loot at the similarities in the attributes:
1 - COMPASSION: II Kings 13:23; II Chron. 30:9;36:15; Ps. 78:38;86:15;112:4;145:8; Jer. 12:15.
2 - MERCIFUL: Deut. 4:31; 32:43; II Chron. 30:9; Neh. 9:31; Jer. 3:12.
3 - MERCY: Ex. 15:13;20:6;34:7; Num. 14:18,19; Deut.5:10;7:9; II Sam. 22:51; I Kgs.8:23; I Chron. 16:34; II Chron. 5:13; 7:3,6; Ps. 18:50;23:6; Hosea 1:7.
4 - LOVINGKINDNESS: Ps. 17:7;36:7;103:4; Jer.9:24;31:3;32:18
Are those attributes NOT similar to Islams In the Name of Allah, the Most Merciful and the Most Compassionate?
Perhaps for Mohammedans that buy into a bunch of foolish lip service. But were Mohammed and his Ka'aba god really merciful and compassionate?
"As to the thief, Male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment by way of example, from Allah, for their crime: and Allah is Exalted in power." - Quran 5:38
Jesus healed the lame so they could walk.
Mohammed brought lameness to the walking. "...they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off."
Jesus brought sight to the blind.
Mohammed brought blindness to the seeing. "...he ordered for nails which were heated and passed over their eyes..."
Jesus brought the dead back to life.
Mohammed killed the living.
Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them
Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.'"
Tabari VIII:35/Ishaq:464 "The Jews were made to come down, and Allah's Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina (it is still its marketplace today), and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men."
Mohammed was sooooo compassionate he raped prisoners
Sura 33:50-51 - "
O prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers;
and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war ...
Even still-married prisoners
Surah 4:24 Also (prohibited are) women already married,
except those whom your right hands possess:...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V22qDQqMPL0
He murders her husband and father and then
Ishaq:466 "The Apostle chose one of the Jewish women for himself. Her name was Rayhana. She remained with him until she died, in his power. The Apostle proposed to marry her and put the veil on her but she said, 'Leave me under your power, for that will be easier.' She showed a repugnance towards Islam when she was captured."
Indeed Mohammed's Ka'aba rock god Allah was the greatest of schemers and deceivers.
For example, the Quran calls Allah a makr, in fact the best makr there is:
But they (the Jews) were deceptive, and Allah was deceptive,
for Allah is the best of deceivers (Wamakaroo wamakara Allahu waAllahu khayru al-makireena)! S. 3:54; cf. 8:30
Other texts that identify Allah as a makr include:
Are they then secure from Allah's deception (makra Allahi)?
None deemeth himself secure from Allah's deception (makra Allahi) save folk that perish. S. 7:99
So they schemed a scheme: and We schemed a scheme (Wamakaroo makran wamakarna makran), while they perceived not. S. 27:50
At least he was good enough at it to scheme you out of your eternal life and deceive you into following Satan through the false prophet Mohammed.
2Cr 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 09:11:32 AM
YOU SAID: Let me try a quicker version of my first reply.
REPLY: Those are NOT the replies need. As I told you, I could NOT care less what you have in your filthy web forum which you use to trap flies. What I need from you as a decent reply for a personality of your caliber is not URL but rather a detailed rebuttal of my arguments.
Those URLs contain rebuttals to your arguments. Whole sections devoted to things like the divinity of Jesus Christ.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 09:11:32 AMIf you are really that confident in your belief and you are sure that my belief is WRONG,.....
Either Mohammed's 23 year 7th century record is wrong, or ALL of the prophets and witnesses of the 1600 yeare record of God's Word are wrong.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 09:11:32 AM...... just say so in black and white and based on dogma and tenet NOT mud-slinging or character assassination. As you well know character assassination does not disprove issues between us as it does not stop from Obama being elected because of his Muslim-sounding name.
But worse comes to worse, I can accept copy and paste of the detailed response contained in those URLs and not the URLs themselves.
Pretty lazy and demanding of you but I will post a few for you.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 04:57:17 PM
YOU SAID: Typical obfuscation of the truth about Mohammed as bequeathed by your own books. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=53.0
QUICK REPLY: See my explanation above.
YOU SAID: http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=336.0
QUICK REPLY: See my explanation above.
YOU SAID: http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=148.0
QUICK REPLY: See my explanation above.
YOU SAID: http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=40.0
QUICK REPLY: See my explanation above.
YOU SAID: http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=174.0
QUICK REPLY: See my explanation above.
YOU SAID: http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=116.0, http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=97.0, http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=96.0
QUICK REPLY: See my explanation above.
YOU SAID: http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=372.0
QUICK REPLY: See my explanation above.
YOU SAID: http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=33.0
QUICK REPLY: See my explanation above.
YOU SAID: http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=252.0
QUICK REPLY: See my explanation above.
I'll post these back on Part 1 where your comments that inspired the links are found.
Please click here for where they start. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1043.msg4072#msg4072
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 05:35:02 PM
YOU SAID: The main disagreement in your view but not from a Gospel perspective.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=43.0
QUICK REPLY: Paul disagreed with Jesus (pbuh) in every turn. Paul failed to attract the Jews to his brand of Christianity. So he turned to the gentiles and mutilated Jesus (pbuh) teaching to the extent that Michael Hart in his book Top 100, made Paul as the real founder of Christianity. Paul did not hesitate to adopt pagan concepts of triune god, Christmas Dec 25, Easter, drinking of blood and eating flesh, etc which were NEVER EVER preached by Jesus. I still claim that Jesus (pbuh) God is ONE similar to Muhammeds (pbuh), salvation by faith and works, the same, kosher, etc, the same. Compare this to Paul and you will have the north pole and the south pole apart. For the URL you supplied, see my explanation above.
Don't be silly. You must reject ALL of the new covenant prophets and witnesses, to follow Mohammed's EXACT OPPOSITE record. The crucifixion, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, who gave Himself as a sacrifice to save us all from sin is the whole subject of that covenant. Whether in Old Testament prophecy or New Testament fulfillment.
Since God manifest Himself to His chosen people a few thousand years ago, atonement for sin has come through the shed blood of sacrifice. Without it you will die in your sins, my friend.
God told His people that atonement for sin could be achieved through the shed blood of sacrifice. Perhaps we can't know all the whys of God choosing blood for covering sin in His plan for mankind, just that
that is how He did reveal Himself, as Scripture and the archaeological and historical records indisputably attest. The following link has some sample verses from scripture.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=atonement&t=KJV&sf=5
Early in the old covenant God revealed that the blood of sacrificed animals could serve as sin offerings.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=930.0
The following Bible search link contains many sample verses that you can click on individually, to read them in their broader context.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=sin+offering&t=KJV&sf=5
About 3,000 years ago, God instructed His old covenant people to build a tabernacle (completed in about 970 BC), in which the focus was an alter on which animals were to be sacrificed as a sin offering by ordained levites (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levite) (Hebrew tribe of Levi), according to specific instructions that God gave His chosen people of that covenant.
The following link contains several Bible verses of temple building details that God dictated. You can click each to read them in context.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=tabernacle&t=KJV&sf=5
A Wikipedia article on the tabernacle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon%27s_Temple
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/20/Temple-of-Solomon-Exterior.jpg/400px-Temple-of-Solomon-Exterior.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/67/Close-Up.jpg/220px-Close-Up.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/35/SolomonsTemple.png/222px-SolomonsTemple.png)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/8c/Close-Up-Without-Ceiling.jpg/320px-Close-Up-Without-Ceiling.jpg)
Of course the temple mount still stands - in part - unto this day, though Muslims are doing everything in their power to destroy the remnants of the archaeological remains of the temple foundations and such.
http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=136&view=item&idx=516
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=temple%20mount%20&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:Gr2j9wBtc-XLwM:http://lonelymanofcake.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/temple-mountpdf2007_02_08_17_13_19.jpg)
http://lonelymanofcake.wordpress.com/2007/02/08/the-truth-about-the-temple-mount-excavations/
During that covenant many of God's chosen people, the Jews, repeatedly disobeyed God by wandering off into idolatry and such, and were severely punished repeatedly, including an over 2500 year period (http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=77.0) in which they would not be in control of their covenant land (http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=519.0).
As a result of their disobedience, and difficulties in keeping the law, in about 626BC Jeremiah was given a prophecy regarding a new covenant, that would come in the future.
Jeremiah 31:31 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Jer&c=31&v=31&t=KJV#31) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make
a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt;
which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: {although...: or, should I have continued an husband unto them?} 33
But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD:
for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Many hundreds of years later that new covenant was fulfilled by Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God, who eventually became the
one sacrifice for all that have faith in His shed blood.
Romans 3:25
Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Hebrews 10:12 But this man,
after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Hebrews 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.
Hebrews 9:22
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and
without shedding of blood is no remission.Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus,
he gave up the ghost.
John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head,
and gave up the ghost.
Mark 15:39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out,
and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
Jinn channeled through Mohammed:
Surah 4:157 That
they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";-
but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but
so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for
of a surety they killed him not:-Who but someone inspired by Satan would prevent Muslims from being covered by the blood that would save them?
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Indeed while Mohammed filled his followers with complete resolve as to
who didn't die on the cross, he left a complete vacuum as to
who did die on the cross. If you ask Muslims who was crucified you will find that they "....are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow...". Thus we see that Mohammed's is the only anti-another-religion, religion. It is to Christianity as the negative is to a photograph. Rejecting ALL of the new covenant prophets and witnesses of Jesus, in a single surah.
2Pe 2:1 But there were
false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be
false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies,
even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
Hebrews 10:29
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy,
who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and
hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath
done despite unto the Spirit of grace?http://www.israelinbibleprophecy.com/the_lamb_slain.htm
1Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Surah 9.30 The
Jews call 'Uzair a son of God, and the Christians call Christ the Son of God. That is a saying from their mouth; (In this) they but imitate what the Unbelievers of old used to say.
God's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment. 31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
If you are going to believe Mohammed's rewriting of history, and ignore Jesus' death on the Cross and resurrection, there is no point in looking into the New Testament further. This is what it's all about, as confirmed by ALL of the new covenant prophets and witnesses.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/the_lamb_slain.htm
The concept of real martyrdom is difficult for Muslims to understand, because Muhammad taught that martyrdom is achieved when someone is killed inadvertently, while in the act of murdering others through imperialistic conquest. But real martyrdom is achieved, for example, when an completely innocent person is killed, simply for the beliefs one holds. Just as Christians and Jews (and all the rest of non-Muslims) have been murdered by Muslims, over the last 1400 years. Like Christian pastors and others being crucified in the Sudan today by the hand of Islam. The perpetrators are GOOD Muslims following in the footsteps of their false prophet.
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=pastor+crucified+sudan&aq=f&aqi=&oq=&fp=df82d86320cf60e9
Surah 9.29
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth,
(even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=856.0
Mohammed convinced those poor followers that the only guarantee of paradise is achieved if one is martyred. Otherwise, when you die you are put on "Allah's" good/bad scale. Indeed the Quran degrades those who go through life without fighting in Allah's cause. That's why so many young Muslims that live in Muslim controlled countries, that recognize they have been leading sinful lives, travel to foreign lands to fight in the hopes that they will be "martyred" while killing others. That's also why they are willing to put on a suicide/homicide belt to blow themselves up in a bus load of Jewish school children.
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=first+drop+of+blood+martyr+paradise&aq=f&aqi=&oq=&fp=df82d86320cf60e9
What good Muslims today refer to as "Islamic awakening".
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alminbar.com%2Fkhutbaheng%2F1478.htm&aq=f&aqi=&oq=&fp=df82d86320cf60e9
The Christian martyr says "I will die for what I believe in."
The Muslim so-called martyr says "You will die for what I believe in."
For the last 2,000 years Christian martyrs have been murdered all around the world, simply for refusing to deny their faith, in the shed blood of our Savior, Jesus Christ. Our Jewish brethren have been martyred over the last 3500 years.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:00:10 PM
You did not provide URLs for my NEW TESTAMENT arguments. But I could not care less because like in a court of law, they are not acceptable to defend your case. What you are doing is like this: when the judge asks you to prove or disprove something, you just reply to him as Go to my sister and ask her, or Go and see my neighbor and ask her.
But that's false since the URL links I provided go to threads in this forum that I authored.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:00:10 PMAny court in your county will NEVER accept this way of refuting a charge or an argument.
Of course they do. Decisions are made on the presentation and preponderance of the evidence.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:00:10 PMI thought that you are such a big weight in your field that I had a very high regard of you.
I am a nobody and lowly sinner. I have a particular burden for Muslims as I see 1.5 billion Muslims in the world today, claimed by the spirit of antichrist, through the false prophet Mohammed.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:00:10 PMBut the way, you replied to me disproves it. For me now, you are just a big air of baloon: empty inside.
Please review the posts in Part 1 and Part 2. That is scripture I am quoting, not my own hot air.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:00:10 PMWhy cant you just refute any one of my arguments and the rest later as per your schedule and timing.
I just did.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:00:10 PMThe fact that you are just providing URLs proves to me beyond doubt that you are empty in your dogmatic knowledge and you are just like any anti-Islamists on the web who are paid to slow down the fast spread of Islam in your country.
What it proves is that I didn't want to repeat writing what I already wrote, or jam it all in these 2 threads, which I did, at your request. Far better if they are organized as individual topics as they are at the links.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:00:10 PM
Look, Mr. PeteWaldo, your tactic and strategy of character assassination has been tried during the time of the Last Prophet (pbuh),.....
It is your own books that assassinate Mohammed's character. I could see how he could get away with it with a bunch of illiterate 7th century illiterate reprobates, who hung out with him so they could steal other peoples property, and sexually enslave their wives and children, but I don't get it in the 21st century with ready access to Islam's own books.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:00:10 PM..... during the Inquistions and the Crusades but nothing worked.
That's because Mohammed broke your minds through the spirit of antichrist.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:00:10 PMIn your media right now, you are painting a bad picture of Islam and its Prophet (pbuh) but its spread is unabated.
There is almost nothing but apologies for Mohammed in our media. Fortunately there is alternate media where folks can find the truth - through your own books. Like this forum.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:00:10 PMAs you well know, right after the tragic 9/11, 34,000 Americans converted to Islam. Your pastors and priests are flocking and attracted to Islam because according to Abdur Raheem Green, a British convert, Islam makes sense.
Lots of folks have been deceived by false prophets, and rejected God, from even before Mohammed was born.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:00:10 PMCompared to your NONSENSE Pauline Christianity invented by Paul and the Church, what you are defending now is a LOST CAUSE already. Islam will supercede your Pauline Chrisitianity and will buldoze it to the ground.
But why pick on Paul when John does such a more effective job of taking you down?
1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? HE IS ANTICHRIST, THAT DENIETH the Father and THE SON. 23 WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE FATHER....
Jhn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT THE SON SHALL NOT SEE LIFE, BUT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDETH ON HIM.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:00:10 PMYour forum is just nonsense and a filth ....
That's certainly true when I am quoting Islam's books.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:00:10 PM.... spreading lies and falsehood ......
But if I am to quote the Quran and hadith it leaves me little choice but to spread falsehood since Mohammed WAS and taught the EXACT OPPOSITE of Jesus Christ.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:00:10 PM..... becaue you cannot smear the pristine teaching of the TRUE religion of God ......
Sure, as manifest is thievery, murder, sex slavery and prisoner rape, for just a few examples.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:00:10 PM..... as taught by all prophets from Adam, Noah, Abraham, David, Solomon, Jesus .....
Christians follow all those prophets.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:00:10 PM..... down to Muhammed peace be upon them all.
A conspicuously false prophet. Prophesied as creating the kingdom "beast" that becomes the end-time foe of God's people, to their end.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where THE BEAST and THE FALSE PROPHET [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:00:10 PMHave you ever wondered if your forum has stopped the growth of Islam in your country?
I'm sure Islam will continue it's success in winning those in our prison system. However even they don't stay in Islam. Indeed 75% of those in the U.S. that go to Islam leave within 3 years. That's because they won't get their heads cut off here for apostasy, like they would in a Muslim country.
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=75%25+converts+leave+islam&aq=f&aqi=&oq=75%25+converts+leave+islam&fp=c26c79a56c95bda8
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:00:10 PM
Your CNN , New York Times say that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. See http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9704/14/egypt.islam/ and Ari L. Goldman, Mainstream Islam Rapidly Embraced By Black Americans, New York Times, Late City Final Edition, February 21, 1989, p. 1. The following people from your government also confirmed this:
-Islam is the fastest-growing religion in America, a guide and pillar of stability for many of our people... (Hillary Rodham Clinton, Los Angeles Times) See Larry B. Stammer, Times Religion Writer, First Lady Breaks Ground With Muslims, Los Angeles Times, Home Edition, Metro Section, Part B, May 31, 1996, p. 3.
-Moslems are the worlds fastest-growing group... (The Population Reference Bureau, USA Today) See Timothy Kenny, Elsewhere in the World, USA Today, Final Edition, News Section, February 17, 1989, p. 4A
-....Islam is the fastest-growing religion in the country. (Geraldine Baum; Newsday Religion Writer, Newsday). See Geraldine Baum, For Love of Allah, Newsday, Nassau and Suffolk Edition, Part II, March 7, 1989, p. 4.
As I noted earlier Muslims do indeed make babies like bunnies when they immigrate to Western welfare states. Look at the demographics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:00:10 PM
YOU SAID: Deedat - First Epistle of John confirms Mohammed is a True Prophet
Comments & Discussion: http://petewaldo.com/inde...
Intro to the Gospel: http://www.islamandthetruth...
Islam in bible prophecy: http://www.beholdthebeast.com/
The verse that Deedat claimed confirms Mohammed, from John's first epistle, does not exi...
REPLY: I checked the video and what the late Sh. Deedat (may Allah rest his soul) is referring to is 1 John 4:1 which is correct. What you are discussing is 1 John 1:1 which is far off what the the late Sheikh is referring to. Talk about mesmerizing people!
Perhaps an expanded version will help your blindness, and blind faith in your famous liar Deedat.
In a video Deedat was asked:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_4_tbN-b_A
"The question addressed to Mr. Deedat, 'Through your knowledge of the Moslim faith, can you vouch for the fact that Mohammed was not antichrist?'" Deedat made up a false bible verse to claim that Mohammed was not antichrist.
He repeated his phony homemade bible verse in this different venuehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKMMr4lZx2E
Mr Deedat quoted 1John 4:1 almost perfectly out of the King James Version of God's Word:
1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Then Deedat said "...it continues..." but then made up his own following non-existent verse:
"The spirit that confesseth
that Jesus is the Christ is of God."
There are only 3 verses that use Deedat's phrase "...
that Jesus is the Christ...".
Following is one of them that also happens to be a test of
persons rather than
a test of spirits:
1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth
that Jesus is the Christ?
He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and
the Son. 23
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].
What we can see is that it not only comes from John's First Epistle that Deedat claimed proved Mohammed was not antichrist, but it actually identifies not only Mohammed, but Deedat and all Muslims, as antichrists, because the belief that God has no Son is the most important fundamental in Islam. This proves the
EXACT OPPOSITE of Deedat's false claim through his home made bible verse. Proving Mohammed not just another false prophet, but EXACTLY OPPOSITE Jesus Christ - antichrist.
The full text of the First Epistle of John, from the same King James Version Deedat quoted from, is contained here http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=268.0
The only 2 other verses that use the phrase "
that Jesus is the Christ" are:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=%22that+Jesus+is+the+Christ%22&t=KJV
Jhn 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe
that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
1Jo 5:1 Whosoever believeth
that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
From the same author, those really support Mohammed as a true prophet don't they?!
Ya right!There are only 4 verses in scripture that use the term "antichrist", quoted and discussed here:
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=624.0
The only verse anything like the one that Deedat quoted is:
1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every
spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
And just as it says it is a test of SPIRITS. The spirit within, or giving utterance through the person must be asked, not the person themself. It's easy to see that a Satanist could honestly confess that verse.
The terms "spirit" and "prophet" are never interchangeable, or synonymous, in scripture, as Deedat preposterously suggested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKMMr4lZx2E
Strong's definitions:
the
spiritsNew Testament Greek Definition:
4151
pneuma {pnyoo'-mah}
from 4154; TDNT - 6:332,876; n n
AV -
Spirit 111, Holy Ghost 89, Spirit (of God) 13,
Spirit (of the Lord) 5, (My) Spirit 3, Spirit (of truth) 3,
Spirit (of Christ) 2, human (spirit) 49, (evil) spirit 47,
spirit (general) 26, spirit 8, (Jesus' own) spirit 6,
(Jesus' own) ghost 2, misc 21; 385
prophetNew Testament Greek Definition:
4396
prophetes {prof-ay'-tace}
from a compound of 4253 and 5346; TDNT - 6:781,952; n m
AV -
prophet 149; 149We can see by the word counts in the definitions above that:
The Greek word "pneuma", translated as "spirit", is NEVER translated as prophet.
The Greek word "prophetes", translated as "prophet", is NEVER also translated as spirit.
Koine Greek was the lingua franca of the 1st century and the language that the New Testament was written in.
It's 1400 years too late to try the spirits that caused Mohammed to writhe on the ground and foam at the mouth.
It's 1400 years too late to try what Mohammed believed to be jinn that met him in that deep dark cave.
Mohammed was convinced it was a demon until his wife convinced him otherwise, and she wasn't even witness to his feeling squeezed nearly to death by the demon three times. That's what is so important about having all of the witnesses in God's Word.
2Cr 13:1 This [is] the third [time] I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.
And what is the opinion of a lone woman (in this case Mohammed's wife) worth in Islam anyway? Jack squat.
"...if the two be not men, then one man and two women, such witnesses as you approve of, that if one of the two women errs the other will remind her..." (Sura al-Baqara 2:282)
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/#women
By Deedat's preposterous test if you asked a Satanist if Jesus is the Christ and he said yes, then that would make him a true prophet.
What if you asked a liar the same question and he answered yes? Would that make him a true prophet?
What about someone suffering under the delusion of a demon like the one Mohammed met in the cave? He could say Jesus is the Christ and then spew whatever it was that Satan directed him to (like Mohammed did).
However, if
the spirit was tried it could not make that confession. That's the whole point of the test.
The whole notion of a test as Deedat suggested is transparently ridiculous.
Now why don't you actually read the First Epistle of John and decide for yourself if it confirms Mohammed was not antichrist and was a true prophet? It's copy and pasted into this thread.http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=273.0
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:00:10 PM
YOU SAID: I can devote a thread entirely to a one-on-one in the forum, as I have many times as you can see from the preface in the section "copy and pasted and active chats with Muslims".
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=32.0
REPLY: As I told your forum is yours it is your turf which is designed to your advantage and liking. Youtube is a neutral ground so if you are really serious to face me here refute the arguments ONE BY ONE instead of giving me your URL.
YOU SAID: http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=32.0
But what I offered is a venue where we can quote each other, and quote quotes, etc. to keep our conversation perfectly organized. But what you prefer is an absence of accountability and to lurk in the dark alley of personal messaging.
REPLY: As I said, your forum is a dark ally for me. I do not know what you put to trap your unaware visitors. Youtube is a neutral ground and it is under the control of a neutral entity. Your forum is yours and you designed it to your advantage. So it is a dark alley for me. Lastly, I consider your forum as not only dark but filthy as well.
YOU SAID: It is you that suffers the cold feet and runs away from a venue where our conversation can be perfectly organized, while being one-on-one, if you prefer.
I don't want to squander more of my time in a dark alley with cowards that fear the light of day.
REPLY: As I told you above, your forum is a dark alley for me. Why not fight it out in this neutral ground where you are safe and I am too. Why cant you discuss whatever you have in Youtube if you are not feeling cold feet? Its a neutral ground for you and me.
Because as you can see, it is well organized, has live links, and the search function can also recall subjects easily, along with many other advantages, like being able to hold each other accountable for our words easily.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:00:10 PM
YOU SAID: Hitler and the Mufti Comments & Discussion: http://petewaldo.com/inde...
http://www.obsessionthemovi...Excerpt from good expose on Islam "Obsession the Movie", uploaded by another here: watch?v=iZHWhsc7wvg The Islamic Mufti of Jerusalem working side by side with Adolf ...
REPLY: Again this is a sample of character assassination of the followers of Islam and not the dogma or the tenet of Islam itself.
Don't be silly. Mohammed hated Jews from the moment they didn't buy into his ridiculous 7th century religion. They had already been following God for 2,000 years before Mohammed was ever born. Few things are more Islamic that for Mohammed's followers to hate and murder Jews.
Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.'" Sahih Bukhari Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176 - Sunna: Sahih Muslim Book 041, Number 6985)
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:00:10 PMDid you not get what I outlined before in my first email? I am not interested on character assassination nor what does any Muslim do or not do.
They are doing as ordered by the false prophet Mohammed.
Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
It is you that is out of step if you aren't hating and fighting.
Sura 9.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise):
they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law,
the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.
But that is of course a lie regarding the Gospel:
Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:00:10 PMThis mufti action does NOT in any way represent Islam.
Don't be ridiculous.
Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.'" Sahih Bukhari Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176 - Sunna: Sahih Muslim Book 041, Number 6985)
From Mohammed's first caravan plunder, to the murder of peaceful Jewish farmers, to his murder of poets, to his launch of the First Islamic Jihad that murdered, raped, pillaged and plundered it's way all the way up to France and Austria.
"The Sword is the key of heaven and hell; a drop of blood shed in the cause of Allah, a night spent in arms, is of more avail than two months of fasting and prayer; whoever falls in battle, his sins are forgiven, and at the day of judgment his limbs shall be supplied by the wings of angels and cherubim."
The following is excerpted from the webpage: http://www.iranian.ws/cgi-bin/iran_news/exec/view.cgi/2/4793 regarding the Islamic first Jihad (link):
Power of the Sword
623 - Battle of Waddan
623 - Battle of Safwan
623 - Battle of Dul-Ashir
624 - Muhammad and converts begin raids on caravans to fund the movement.
624 - Zakat becomes mandatory
624 - Battle of Badr
624 - Battle of Bani Salim
624 - Battle of Eid-ul-Fitr and Zakat-ul-Fitr
624 - Battle of Bani Qainuqa
624 - Battle of Sawiq
624 - Battle of Ghatfan
624 - Battle of Bahran
625 - Battle of Uhud. 70 Muslims are killed.
625 - Battle of Humra-ul-Asad
625 - Battle of Banu Nudair
625 - Battle of Dhatur-Riqa
626 - Battle of Badru-Ukhra
626 - Battle of Dumatul-Jandal
626 - Battle of Banu Mustalaq Nikah
627 - Battle of the Trench
627 - Battle of Ahzab
627 - Battle of Bani Quraiza
627 - Battle of Bani Lahyan
627 - Battle of Ghaiba
627 - Battle of Khaibar
628 - Muhammad signs treaty with Quraish.
630 - Muhammad conquers Mecca.
630 - Battle of Hunsin.
630 - Battle of Tabuk
632 - Muhammad dies.
632 - Abu-Bakr, Muhammads father-in-law, along with Umar, begin a military move to enforce Islam in Arabia.
633 - Battle at Oman
633 - Battle at Hadramaut.
633 - Battle of Kazima
633 - Battle of Walaja
633 - Battle of Ulleis
633 - Battle of Anbar
634 - Battle of Basra,
634 - Battle of Damascus
634 - Battle of Ajnadin.
634 - Death of Hadrat Abu Bakr. Hadrat Umar Farooq becomes the Caliph.
634 - Battle of Namaraq
634 - Battle of Saqatia.
635 - Battle of Bridge.
635 - Battle of Buwaib.
635 - Conquest of Damascus.
635 - Battle of Fahl.
636 - Battle of Yermuk.
636 - Battle of Qadsiyia.
636 - Conquest of Madain.
637 - Battle of Jalula.
638 - Battle of Yarmouk.
638 - The Muslims defeat the Romans and enter Jerusalem.
638 - Conquest of Jazirah.
639 - Conquest of Khuizistan and movement into Egypt.
641 - Battle of Nihawand
642 - Battle of Ray in Persia
643 - Conquest of Azarbaijan
644 - Conquest of Fars
644 - Conquest of Kharan.
644 - Umar is murdered. Othman becomes the Caliph.
647 - Conquest of the island of Cypress
644 - Uman dies and is succeeded by Caliph Uthman.
648 - Campaign against the Byzantines.
651 - Naval battle against the Byzantines.
654 - Islam spreads into North Africa
656 - Uthman is murdered. Ali become Caliph.
658 - Battle of Nahrawan.
659 - Conquest of Egypt
661 - Ali is murdered.
662 - Egypt falls to Islam rule.
666 - Sicily is attacked by Muslims
677 - Siege of Constantinople
687 - Battle of Kufa
691 - Battle of Deir ul Jaliq
700 - Sufism takes root as a sect of Islam
700 - Military campaigns in North Africa
702 - Battle of Deir ul Jamira
711 - Muslims invade Gibraltar
711 - Conquest of Spain
713 - Conquest of Multan
716 - Invasion of Constantinople
732 - Battle of Tours in France.
740 - Battle of the Nobles.
741 - Battle of Bagdoura in North Africa
744 - Battle of Ain al Jurr.
746 - Battle of Rupar Thutha
748 - Battle of Rayy.
749 - Battle of lsfahan
749 - Battle of Nihawand
750 - Battle of Zab
772 - Battle of Janbi in North Africa
777 - Battle of Saragossa in Spain
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:00:10 PMAssuming for the sake of argument that it is true, then how does it affect the Muslim belief of One God?
It is true and what is shows is that Mohammed's sole surviving Ka'aba rock god is a god of hate and murder and rape of prisoners. Mohammed's phony god is Satan himself, as channeled through Mohammed.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:00:10 PMSecondly, even if its true, so what? He is just trying to find a way to stop his land and his people being grabbed and annihilated by the murderous Jews?
Now you're talking like a Muslim. 2500 years of oppression of Jews wasn't enough for you.
Genesis 12:2 And I will make of thee [Abram] a great nation [Israel], and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: 3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
Achievement:
"The Global Islamic population is approximately 2,000,000,000 or 33% of
the world's population. They have received the following Nobel Prizes:Literature:
1988 - Najib Mahfooz
Peace:
1978 - Mohamed Anwar El-Sadat
1994 - Yaser Arafat:
1990 - Elias James Corey - raised Catholic (erroneously listed as a Muslim in this annonymous email)
1999 - Ahmed Zewai
Economics: (zero)
Physics: (zero)
Medicine:
1960 - Peter Brian Medawar
1998 - Ferid Mourad - Episcopalian (erroneously listed as a Muslim in this annonymous email)
(A very kind reader brought to my attention that the author of the email copied here was incorrect regarding two of the persons listed as Muslims. Ferid Mourad and Elias James Corey were not. Thus the tally is even bleaker than it had been!)
TOTAL: SEVEN (FIVE is the actual total barring any future corrections)The Global Jewish population is approximately 14,000,000, or about 0.02% of the world's population.They have received the following Nobel Prizes:
Literature:
1910 - Paul Heyse
1927 - Henri Bergson
1958 - Boris Pa sternak
1966 - Shmuel Yosef Agnon
1966 - Nelly Sachs
1976 - Saul Bellow
1978 - Isaac Bashevis Singer
1981 - Elias Canetti
1987 - Joseph Brodsky
1991 - Nadine Gordimer World
Peace:
1911 - Alfred Fried
1911 - Tobias Michael Carel Asser
1968 - Rene Cassin
1973 - Henry Kissinger
1978 - Menachem Begin
1986 - Elie Wiesel
1994 - Shimon Peres
1994 - Yitzhak Rabin
Physics:
1905 - Adolph Von Baeyer
1906 - Henri Moissan
1907 - Albert Abraham Michelson
1908 - Gabriel Lippmann
1910 - Otto Wallach
1915 - Richard Willstaetter
1918 - Fritz Haber
1921 - Albert Einstein
1922 - Niels Bohr
1925 - James Franck
1925 - Gustav Hertz
1943 - Gustav Stern
1943 - George Charles de Hevesy
1944 - Isidor Issac Rabi
1952 - Felix Bloch
1954 - Max Born
1958 - Igor Tamm
1959 - Emilio Segre
1960 - Donald A. Glaser
1961 - Robert Hofstadter
1961 - Melvin Calvin
1962 - Lev Davidovich Landau
1962 - Max Ferdinand Perutz
1965 - Richard Phil lips Feynman
1965 - Julian Schwinger
1969 - Murray Gell-Mann
1971 - Dennis Gabor
1972 - William Howard Stein
1973 - Brian David Joseph son
1975 - Benjamin Mottleson
1976 - Burton Richter
1977 - Ilya Prigogine
1978 - Arno Allan Penzias
1978 - Peter L Kapitza
1979 - Stephen Weinberg
1979 - Sheldon Glashow
1979 - Herbert Charles Brown
1980 - Paul Berg
1980 - Walter Gilbert
1981 - Roald Hoffmann
1982 - Aaron Klug
1985 - Albert A. Hauptman
1985 - Jerome Karle
1986 - Dudley R. Herschbach
1988 - Robert Huber
1988 - Leon Lederman
1988 - Melvin Schwartz
1988 - Jack Steinberger
1989 - Sidney Altman
1990 - Jerome Friedman
1992 - Rudolph Marcus
1995 - Martin Perl
2000 - Alan J. Heeger
Economics:
1970 - Paul Anthony Samuelson
1971 - Simon Kuznets
1972 - Kenneth Joseph Arrow
1975 - Leonid Kantorovich
1976 - Mil ton Friedman
1978 - Herb ert A. Simon
1980 - Lawrence Robert Klein
1985 - Franco Modigliani
1987 - Robert M. Solow
1990 - Harry Markowitz
1990 - Merton Miller
1992 - Gary Becker
1993 - Robert Fogel
Medicine:
1908 - Elie Metchnikoff
1908 - Paul Erlich
1914 - Robert Barany
1922 - Otto Meyerhof
1930 - Karl Landsteiner
1931 - Otto Warburg
1936 - Otto Loewi
1944 - Joseph Erlanger
1944 - Herb ert Spencer Gasser
1945 - Ernst Boris Chain
1946 - Hermann Joseph Muller
1950 - Tadeus Reichstein
1952 - Selman Abra ham Waksman
1953 - Hans Krebs
1953 - Fritz Albert Lipmann
1958 - Joshua Lederberg
1959 - Arthur Kornberg
1964 - Konrad Bloch
1965 - Francois Jacob
1965 - Andre Lwoff
1967 - George Wald
1968 - Marshall W. Nirenberg
1969 - Salvador Luria
1970 - Julius Axelrod
1970 - Sir Bernard Katz
1972 - Gerald Maurice Ed elman
1975 - Howard Martin Temin
1976 - Baruch S. Blumberg
1977 - Roselyn Sussman Yalow
1978 - Daniel Nathans
1980 - Baruj Benacerraf
1984 - Cesar Milstein
1985 - Michael Stuart Brown
1985 - Joseph L. Goldstein
1986 - Stanley Cohen [& Rita Levi-Montalcini]
1988 - Gertrude Elion
1989 - Harold Varmus
1991 - Erwin Neher
1991 - Bert Sakmann
1993 - Richard J. Roberts
1993 - Phillip Sharp
1994 - Alfred Gilman
1995 - Ed ward B. Lewis
TOTAL: 129"
You see? Mohammed broke your brains through the spirit of antichrist.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:00:10 PM
Are you telling me that you also sympathize with the Jews? Dont you know that they are boasting up to now that they have killed Jesus and therefore as such a false Messiah?
But it wasn't Jews or Romans that killed Jesus. It was the sinful nature of mankind that killed Jesus. It was you and me that killed Jesus.
Quote from: Peter on February 16, 2010, 06:00:10 PMDo you know that in their Talmud, they claimed that Mary is a whore who was F***ed by a Roman soldier Bin Pantera giving birth to Jesus? Do know that they claimed that Jesus is a magician and is now being burned in Hell in oil in his excrement? And you are still saying to them hallelujah?
.
YOU SAID: And part 2
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1046.0
ISLAM: THE PERFECT OPPOSITE (part 1)
Comments & Discussion: http://petewaldo.com/inde...
Text version: http://www.beholdthebeast.c...
First Epistle of John: http://www.islamandthetruth...
Mohammed's religion is the STUNNINGLY PERFECT OPPOSITE of Christianity.
The 23 year record of rec...
REPLY: I have already replied to this previously. Summary Jesus says GOD IS ONE, Muhammed (pbuh) says GOD IS ONE, Paul says GOD IS 3-IN-1, Jesus says salvation is faith and works, Muhammed says salvation is faith and works, Paul says salvation is faith ONLY. Which one is IDENTICAL? Jesus and Muhammed! Jesus and Paul STUNNINGLY PERFECT OPPOSITE!
Lastly, I repeat, refute any ONE of the arguments that I have sent to you twice instead of sending me a URL which means nothing. If you cannot fight me in this neutral turf, then say so plainly so I will stop. Again, I repeat, please do not send me any URL. All you have to do is write JESUS IS GOD BECAUSE SUCH AND SUCH. Then the discussion can begin from there.
Awaiting your response
Now you have it. And plenty on your plate to digest.
bump