THREE GRADES OF EVIDENCE
We Muslims have no hesitation in acknowledging that in the Bible, there are three different kinds of witnessing recognizable without any need of specialized training. These are:
1. You will be able to recognize in the Bible what may be described as "The Word of God."
2. You will also be able to discern what can be described as the "Words of a Prophet of God."
3. And you will most readily observe that the bulk of the Bible is the records of eye witnessess or ear witnesses, or people writing from hearsay. As such they are the "Words of a Historian"
You do not have to hunt for examples of these different types of evidences in the Bible. The following quotations will make the position crystal clear:
The FIRST Type:
(a) I will raise them up a prophet . . . and I will put my words in ... and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." (Deuteronomy 18:18)
(b) I even, I am the Lord, and beside me there is no saviour." (Isaiah 43:11)
(c) "Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the end of the earth: for I am God, and there is non else." (Isaiah 45:22)
Note the first person pronoun singular (highlighted in green) in the above references, and without any difficulty you will agree that the statements seem to have the sound of being GOD'S WORD.
The SECOND Type:
(a) "Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying Eli, Eli, lama sabachtani? . . ." (Matthew 27:46)
(b) "And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord:" (Mark 12:29)
(c) "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God." (Mark 10:18).
Even a child will be able to affirm that: Jesus "cried" Jesus "answered" and Jesus "said" are the words of the one to whom they are attributed, i.e. the WORDS OF A PROPHET OF GOD.
The THIRD Type:
"And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he, (JESUS) came, if haply he (JESUS) might find anything thereon: and when he (JESUS) came to it, (Jesus) found nothing but leaves . . ." (Mark 11:13)
The bulk of the Bible is a witnessing of this THIRD kind. These are the words of a third person. Note the underlined pronouns. They are not the Words of God or of His prophet, but the WORDS OF A HISTORIAN.
For the Muslim it is quite easy to distinguish the above types of evidence, because he also has them in his own faith. But of the followers of the different religions, he is the most fortunate in this that his various records are contained in separate Books!
ONE: The first kind - THE WORD OF GOD - is found in a Book called The Holy Qur'an.
TWO: The second kind - THE WORDS OF THE PROPHET OF GOD, (Muhummed, may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) are recorded in the Books of Tradition called The Hadith.
THREE: Evidence of the third kind abounds in different volume of Islamic history, written by some of high integrity and learning, and others of lesser trustworthiness, but the Muslim advisedly keeps his Books in separate volumes!
The Muslim keeps the above three types of evidence Jealously apart, in their proper gradations of authority. He never equates them. On the other hand, the "Holy Bible" contains a motley type of literature, which composes the embarrassing kind, the sordid, and the obscene - all under the same cover - A Christian is forced to concede equal spiritual import and authority to all, and is thus unfortunate in this regard.
Hello punisher and welcome to the forum! :)
Quote from: punisher on June 16, 2010, 04:36:41 AM
THREE GRADES OF EVIDENCE
We Muslims have no hesitation in acknowledging that in the Bible, there are three different kinds of witnessing recognizable without any need of specialized training. These are:
1. You will be able to recognize in the Bible what may be described as "The Word of God."
Jesus Christ IS THE Word.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and
the Word was God.14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/gospel_of_john.htm
Quote from: punisher on June 16, 2010, 04:36:41 AM
2. You will also be able to discern what can be described as the "Words of a Prophet of God."
The 1600 year record of God to mankind that His people have followed through two covenants for 3500 years contain the words of many prophets as well as other witnesses. Even Jesus Christ Himself, besides being God incarnate in the Messiah, was also a prophet.
Quote from: punisher on June 16, 2010, 04:36:41 AM
3. And you will most readily observe that the bulk of the Bible is the records of eye witnessess or ear witnesses, or people writing from hearsay.
Matthew 3:17 And lo
a voice from heaven, saying, This is MY BELOVED SON , in whom I am well pleased.
Mark 1:11 And there came
a voice from heaven, [saying], Thou art MY BELOVED SON, in whom I am well pleased.
Luke 3:22 ...and
a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art MY BELOVED SON; in thee I am well pleased.
2Peter 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory,
when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is MY BELOVED SON, in whom I am well pleased.
I'll pause here before proceeding. Where in the Quran are there any
witnesses to the voice of Mohammed's "Allah", or Gabriel, giving Mohammed a "revelation"?
Quote from: Peter on June 16, 2010, 05:18:28 AM
Quote from: punisher on June 16, 2010, 04:36:41 AM
3. And you will most readily observe that the bulk of the Bible is the records of eye witnessess or ear witnesses, or people writing from hearsay.
This could not be more false.
Matthew 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is MY BELOVED SON , in whom I am well pleased.
Mark 1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, [saying], Thou art MY BELOVED SON, in whom I am well pleased.
Luke 3:22 ...and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art MY BELOVED SON; in thee I am well pleased.
2Peter 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is MY BELOVED SON, in whom I am well pleased.
I'll pause here before preceding. Where in the Quran are there any witnesses to the voice of Mohammed's "Allah", or Gabriel, giving Mohammed a "revelation"?
This verse is one of the most famous verses quoted by Christians when they want to show that Jesus is God. First we will look at the English translation of the verse as seen in some different versions of the Bible.
Different Translations of John 1:1
King James Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
New International Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Douay-Rheims Bible
In the beginning was the Word: and the Word was with God: and the Word was God.
The above are the different translations of the concerned verse as seen in the different versions of the Bible. When moving from one translation or the other, this verse is generally translated in the same manner in all the versions. However there is a certain level of deception in these translations.
Greek Text of John 1:1
The Greek Text
?? ???? ?? ? ?????, ??? ? ????? ?? ???? ??? ????, ??? ???? ?? ? ?????.
Pay close attention to the words in the bold text. I will translate these texts below:
Transliteration, Pronunciation and Translation
* Greek word: ?
Transliteration: ho
Pronunciation: ho
Translation: the
* Greek word: ?????
Transliteration: logos
Pronunciation: log'-os
Translation: word
The Mistranslated Word "????"
In the above example, "ho" is basically an article. In the English language there are 2 articles, "the" which is a definite article and "a" which is an indefinite article. In Greek however there is only 1 article which is definite.
When "logos" is put after "ho" it becomes "the word" and with the absence of "ho", it remains as "word". However this is not where the great deception really is. The part with the great deception will come below.
Greek word: ????
Transliterated: theos
Pronounced: theh'-os
This word "theos" does not only mean "God" with a capital "G". According to the "Thayer's Greek Definitions", the first meaning of this word "theos" is written to be:
"A god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities."
One of the meanings of this word as explained by Strong's Greek Dictionary is:
"A deity."
As seen above, "theos" also means "god" i.e. any god. Greek has no such law like English where we can differentiate between "god" and "God" by the use of the capital letter or small letter. Hence to indicate whether "theos" is referring to any "god" or "God", the language uses "articles".
Depending on whether a word is the "subject" or the "direct object (accusative)" in a sentence, "?" (ho) or "???" (ton) is used respectively.
Verifying the English Translation
Do note that when "theos" is the subject, then it is written as "????" (theos) and when it is the direct object (accusative) then it is written as "????" (theon). In the Greek text of the verse John 1:1, it can be seen that there is an article before "????" and the text is thus written as "??? ????" which is transliterated to beton theon" and should be translated as "the God" or one can even translate it as only "God". The point is that using the definite article, the word refers to God and not to the other meanings of the word "theos" i.e. "a god" or any god or goddess.
In the second instance where we see "theos", it is written as "????" and there is no article before it. If this word would have been referring to "God", then we would have seen the article "o" (ho) before it. The article "ho" is used before the word if it is the subject. However we see that there is an absence of a definite article. Thus it means that in this place, "theos" should be translated as "god" or "a god" and not as "God".
Correct Translation
The correct translation for John 1:1 would then be as such:
In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was a god.
However we find that Christendom tries to put a veil over this problem in the Bible and all of them falsely translate the verses in a way to imply by hook or crook that the Word was also God.
Random Translations by Christendom
Not only does Christendom not translated John 1:1 properly, it is seen that they have been randomly translating the terms "ho theos" and "ton theon". For example lets take a look at 2 Corinthians 4:4.
In that verse "ho theos" is translated as "the god" with a small "g" to refer to Satan. In the same verse "ton theon" is translated as "God". This is a clear "pick and choose" tactic being practiced by Christendom.
Conclusion
The Christian world is trying hard to cover up the correct wordings of this verse. As it is the only verse in the Bible which came closest to the concept of Trinity, 1John 5:7 ("For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one"), has been detected as a fabrication and a corruption in the Bible by biblical scholars and kept out of the later versions of the Bible. This verse in truth also does not support Jesus' divinity. So what we find is that as more investigations are made into the Greek texts of the Bible, Jesus is seen to be losing the "divinity factor". However it is up to the Christian brothers and sister to realize the games that the Churches are playing with them.
It is an undeniable fact that the Bible got corrupted over time, so our brothers should leave the corrupted Old and New Testaments and come towards the uncorrupted Final Testament - Al Quran.
I'll wait for your reply to the second post before I respond to your first.
I hope I didn't put too much on your plate at one time.
Please do not post in any other threads until we finish exploring your first lengthy post here.
See "Forum Decorum"
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=35.0
Quote from: Peter on June 16, 2010, 05:35:26 AM
I'll wait for your reply to the second post before I respond to your first.
I hope I didn't put too much on your plate at one time.
Please do not post in any other threads until we finish exploring your first lengthy post here.
See "Forum Decorum"
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=35.0
Brother I have all answer to your question but give sometime
and your foram doesn't contain greek text i don't why???
Quote from: punisher on June 16, 2010, 05:40:55 AM
Quote from: Peter on June 16, 2010, 05:35:26 AM
I'll wait for your reply to the second post before I respond to your first.
I hope I didn't put too much on your plate at one time.
Please do not post in any other threads until we finish exploring your first lengthy post here.
See "Forum Decorum"
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=35.0
Brother I have all answer to your question but give sometime
and your foram doesn't contain greek text i don't why???
Thank you my friend. That is a very different experience for us from a Muslim. You have all the time in the world. That's the nice thing about this forum. We can leave and tend to other business and the thread will still be waiting for us for days, weeks, or even months later.
Quote from: Peter on June 16, 2010, 05:18:28 AM
Quote from: punisher on June 16, 2010, 04:36:41 AM
3. And you will most readily observe that the bulk of the Bible is the records of eye witnessess or ear witnesses, or people writing from hearsay.
Matthew 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is MY BELOVED SON , in whom I am well pleased.
Mark 1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, [saying], Thou art MY BELOVED SON, in whom I am well pleased.
Luke 3:22 ...and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art MY BELOVED SON; in thee I am well pleased.
2Peter 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is MY BELOVED SON, in whom I am well pleased.
I'll pause here before proceeding. Where in the Quran are there any witnesses to the voice of Mohammed's "Allah", or Gabriel, giving Mohammed a "revelation"?
In quran their is only one voice, The Allah
Don't take the son are literally because Son is also Called for many other things in Bible
FIFTY THOUSAND ERRORS (?)
The Jehovah's Witnesses in their "AWAKE!" Magazine dated 8 September, 1957, carried this startling headline - "50000 ERRORS IN THE BIBLE?" (See below for the reproduction).
(http://www.jamaat.net/bible/Is%20The%20Bible%20Gods%20Word3.jpg)
(http://www.jamaat.net/bible/AwakeArticle%281957%29.JPG)
(http://www.jamaat.net/bible/AwakeArticle%281957%29b.JPG)
Quote from: punisher on June 16, 2010, 05:53:00 AM
Quote from: Peter on June 16, 2010, 05:18:28 AM
Quote from: punisher on June 16, 2010, 04:36:41 AM
3. And you will most readily observe that the bulk of the Bible is the records of eye witnessess or ear witnesses, or people writing from hearsay.
Matthew 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is MY BELOVED SON , in whom I am well pleased.
Mark 1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, [saying], Thou art MY BELOVED SON, in whom I am well pleased.
Luke 3:22 ...and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art MY BELOVED SON; in thee I am well pleased.
2Peter 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is MY BELOVED SON, in whom I am well pleased.
I'll pause here before proceeding. Where in the Quran are there any witnesses to the voice of Mohammed's "Allah", or Gabriel, giving Mohammed a "revelation"?
In quran their is only one voice, The Allah
No, in the Quran the only voice is Mohammed's. He claimed to receive revelations from his "Allah"
yet there was not a single witness to Allah's or Gabriel's voice giving Mohammed his revelations.
Mat 18:16 .... that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
Quote from: punisher on June 16, 2010, 05:53:00 AM
Don't take the son are literally because Son is also Called for many other things in Bible
Who got Mary pregnant?
Who got Mary pregnant?
Do u believe in Adam, How Adam was produced with no father and mother, so it is not impossible for Allah to make mary pregnant with a connection of Male???
Why in quran u think the only vioce is Mohammad???
Why in bible so many voices?????
Quote from: punisher on June 16, 2010, 06:22:43 AM
Who got Mary pregnant?
Do u believe in Adam, How Adam was produced with no father and mother, ........
That's right. He was produced from dust.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Quote from: punisher on June 16, 2010, 06:22:43 AM........ so it is not impossible for Allah to make mary pregnant with a connection of Male???
This is unintelligible. Why don't you answer the Question with a name.
Who got Mary pregnant? Who did Jesus declare was His Father?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=316.0
Quote from: punisher on June 16, 2010, 06:22:43 AM
Why in quran u think the only vioce is Mohammad???
Unless you believe that Mohammed was God, then you have no choice but to believe that every word of the Quran was his. He also quoted Gabriel. Was Mohammed Gabriel and God?
Now I realize that you believe that he was inspired by the voice of his "Allah", and the voice of Gabriel, but you are stuck having to take only Mohammed's word for that. And it is on the basis of Mohammed's 23 year 7th century record that you reject the 1600 year record of God to mankind that His people have followed through two covenants for 3500 years.
Quote from: punisher on June 16, 2010, 06:22:43 AM
Why in bible so many voices?????
That has already been explained.
WITNESSESThe very thing that Mohammed's record lacks. That's why you have to take Mohammed's sole word for what you believe. The only witnesses you have, are those that claim to have been
witnesses of Mohammed.
Quote from: Peter on June 16, 2010, 06:30:09 AM
Quote from: punisher on June 16, 2010, 06:22:43 AM
Who got Mary pregnant?
Do u believe in Adam, How Adam was produced with no father and mother, ........
That's right. He was produced from dust.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Quote from: punisher on June 16, 2010, 06:22:43 AM........ so it is not impossible for Allah to make mary pregnant with a connection of Male???
This is unintelligible. Why don't you answer the Question with a name.
Who got Mary pregnant? Who did Jesus declare was His Father?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=316.0
"Jesus is the only begotten son of God, begotten not made," is an adjunct of the orthodox catechism, leaning for support on the following:
2. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only BEGOTTEN son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
(John 3:16 - AV)
No priest worth his cloth would fail to quote "the only BEGOTTEN of the Father!" when preaching to a prospective convert. But this fabrication — "BEGOTTEN" — has now been unceremoniously excised by the Bible Revisers, without a word of excuse. They are as silent as church-mice and would not draw the reader's attention to their furtive excision. This blasphemous word "BEGOTTEN" was another of the many such interpolations in the "Holy Bible." God Almighty condemned this blasphemy in the strongest terms soon after its innovation. He did not wait for 2000 years for Bible scholars to reveal the fraud.
(http://www.jamaat.net/bible/Image62.gif)
The Muslim World should congratulate the "Fifty cooperating denominations" of Christendom and their Brains Trust the "Thirty-two scholars of the highest eminence" for bringing their Holy Bible a degree nearer to the Qur-anic truth.
(http://www.jamaat.net/bible/Image63.jpg)
Quote from: Peter on June 16, 2010, 06:35:50 AM
Quote from: punisher on June 16, 2010, 06:22:43 AM
Why in quran u think the only vioce is Mohammad???
Unless you believe that Mohammed was God, then you have no choice but to believe that every word of the Quran was his. He also quoted Gabriel. Was Mohammed Gabriel and God?
Now I realize that you believe that he was inspired by the voice of his "Allah", and the voice of Gabriel, but you are stuck having to take only Mohammed's word for that. And it is on the basis of Mohammed's 23 year 7th century record that you reject the 1600 year record of God to mankind that His people have followed through two covenants for 3500 years.
Quote from: punisher on June 16, 2010, 06:22:43 AM
Why in bible so many voices?????
That has already been explained. WITNESSES
The very thing that Mohammed's record lacks. That's why you have to take Mohammed's sole word for what you believe. The only witnesses you have, are those that claim to have been witnesses of Mohammed.
We don't believe Muhammad as God, Muhammad was messenger of Allah as the Jesus was messenger of Allah???
Allah is one who for the guidance of Mankind send Jesus and Muhammad. We believe Muhammad Was true prophet and Jesus was also true prophet
Quote from: punisher on June 16, 2010, 06:36:21 AM
Quote from: Peter on June 16, 2010, 06:30:09 AM
Quote from: punisher on June 16, 2010, 06:22:43 AM
Who got Mary pregnant?
Do u believe in Adam, How Adam was produced with no father and mother, ........
That's right. He was produced from dust.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Quote from: punisher on June 16, 2010, 06:22:43 AM........ so it is not impossible for Allah to make mary pregnant with a connection of Male???
This is unintelligible. Why don't you answer the Question with a name.
Who got Mary pregnant? Who did Jesus declare was His Father?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=316.0
"Jesus is the only begotten son of God, begotten not made," is an adjunct of the orthodox catechism, leaning for support on the following:
2. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only BEGOTTEN son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
(John 3:16 - AV)
No priest worth his cloth would fail to quote "the only BEGOTTEN of the Father!" when preaching to a prospective convert. But this fabrication — "BEGOTTEN" — has now been unceremoniously excised by the Bible Revisers, without a word of excuse. They are as silent as church-mice and would not draw the reader's attention to their furtive excision. This blasphemous word "BEGOTTEN" was another of the many such interpolations in the "Holy Bible." God Almighty condemned this blasphemy in the strongest terms soon after its innovation. He did not wait for 2000 years for Bible scholars to reveal the fraud.
(http://www.jamaat.net/bible/Image62.gif)
The Muslim World should congratulate the "Fifty cooperating denominations" of Christendom and their Brains Trust the "Thirty-two scholars of the highest eminence" for bringing their Holy Bible a degree nearer to the Qur-anic truth.
(http://www.jamaat.net/bible/Image63.jpg)
You didn't answer the question. Who did Jesus declare His Father was in 234 verses of scripture?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=316.0
Brother what does Father mean a man who take care of His children???
so as a creature we all are children of Allah???. Because he feed us,
So Father is one of attribute of Allah according to Bible???
Allah is not father of only Jesus he is father of whole humanity??????
If you need some help with posting try the help menu or this link
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=39.0
Who did Jesus declare His Father was in 234 verses of scripture?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=316.0
Here's just a few
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Matthew 11:26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and [he] to whomsoever the Son will reveal [him].
Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Matthew 15:13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
Matthew 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Matthew 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
Matthew 20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but [it shall be given to them] for whom it is prepared of my Father.
Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Matthew 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.
Matthew 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou [wilt].
Matthew 26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.
Matthew 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
Who did Jesus declare His Father was?
I have made clear
that Father doesn't mean the real Father mean Father as General
Mean Allah is Father of All Humankind all Creature
What is the meaning of Father Father mean "a man of who take care of his children, who give shelter to his children
So Allah is Father of All mankind in Genral
So Jesus is calling as Father to Allah as General????????
Hope u will Clear???
Quote from: punisher on June 16, 2010, 06:55:46 AM
Brother what does Father mean a man who take care of His children???
so as a creature we all are children of Allah???. Because he feed us,
So Father is one of attribute of Allah according to Bible???
Allah is not father of only Jesus he is father of whole humanity??????
So then all of humanity were born of virgins? Who made Mary pregnant?
You deny the unique relationship of Jesus Christ and God, even as you believe He was the only person in the history of the world to be born of a virgin by the will of God.
Are we all sons of God in the same way that Jesus Christ is the Son of God?Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Quote from: Peter on June 16, 2010, 07:07:52 AM
Quote from: punisher on June 16, 2010, 06:55:46 AM
Brother what does Father mean a man who take care of His children???
so as a creature we all are children of Allah???. Because he feed us,
So Father is one of attribute of Allah according to Bible???
Allah is not father of only Jesus he is father of whole humanity??????
So then all of humanity were born of virgins? Who made Mary pregnant?
You deny the unique relationship of Jesus Christ and God, even as you believe He was the only person in the history of the world to be born of a virgin by the will of God.
Are we all sons of God in the same way that Jesus Christ is the Son of God?
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Why the Son of Man?
Jesus Christ is called "the Son of Man" more than 80 times in the Bible.
ok brother this contradiction in Bible????
What does Son of Man Mean, If u really believe him Son of God??????
The bible reviser are playing with ur minds
Quote from: punisher on June 16, 2010, 06:40:43 AM
Quote from: Peter on June 16, 2010, 06:35:50 AM
Quote from: punisher on June 16, 2010, 06:22:43 AM
Why in quran u think the only vioce is Mohammad???
Unless you believe that Mohammed was God, then you have no choice but to believe that every word of the Quran was his. He also quoted Gabriel. Was Mohammed Gabriel and God?
Now I realize that you believe that he was inspired by the voice of his "Allah", and the voice of Gabriel, but you are stuck having to take only Mohammed's word for that. And it is on the basis of Mohammed's 23 year 7th century record that you reject the 1600 year record of God to mankind that His people have followed through two covenants for 3500 years.
Quote from: punisher on June 16, 2010, 06:22:43 AM
Why in bible so many voices?????
That has already been explained. WITNESSES
The very thing that Mohammed's record lacks. That's why you have to take Mohammed's sole word for what you believe. The only witnesses you have, are those that claim to have been witnesses of Mohammed.
We don't believe Muhammad as God, Muhammad was messenger of Allah as the Jesus was messenger of Allah???
So then don't pretend that the words in the Quran are other than Mohammed's. Mohammed convinced you they were inspired by his "Allah" and Gabriel but they were spoken by Mohammed. You have taken his sole word for what he said.
Quote from: punisher on June 16, 2010, 06:40:43 AM
Allah is one who for the guidance of Mankind send Jesus and Muhammad. We believe Muhammad Was true prophet and Jesus was also true prophet
You must reject the prophets and witnesses as revealed in the Gospel to follow Mohammed, who
was and taught,
the exact opposite.
So please show us a prophecy of your "prophet" that was fulfilled.
We believe in All Prophets.
We don't reject Prophets.????
We only reject the fabrication by christian and Jew that some prophets are son of Allah
Allah Say in Quran
(http://www.jamaat.net/bible/Image62.gif)
Why u don't think a man like muhammad can write a book with no errors in only his own vioces
why u don't think that Bible can't be written in voice, many voices and hence interpenetration in bible
IN THE WORDS OF THE MASTER JESUS
(http://www.jamaat.net/muh-christ/Image22.jpg)
JESUS FOR JEWS ONLY
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them saying,
Go ye not into the way of the Gentiles, 1 and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go ye rather unto The Lost Sheep Of The House Of Israel.
(HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 10:5-6
1 Gentiles: non-Jews
NO NEW RELIGION
(http://www.jamaat.net/muh-christ/Image26.jpg)
2 "LAW": The word in the Arabic text here is "Taurat." (Heb. "Torah.")
The Messiah was no mealy-mouthed Messenger among the Jews. Like his predecessors Amos and Ezekiel or Isaiah and Jeremiah, he was trenchant in his condemnation of Jewish formalism and hypocrisies. His novel approach and militant preaching had created certain misgivings amongst the religious hierarchy. The Scribes and the Pharisees came to him again and again to test him as to his bona fides (His Genuineness).
To allay their suspicions that he had brought no new fangled religion, and that his was the confirmation of all the teachings that had gone before him. He says —
Think not that I am come to destroy the law (Hebrew - Torah), or the prophets: I am come not to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you. Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law (Torah), till all be fulfilled.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
HOLY BIBLE Matthew 5: 17-19
Compare this phrase "CONFIRMING THE LAW (WHICH CAME) BEFORE ME" - these seven words at the beginning of this section with the three verses of Matthew above, and you will not fail to note that there is no wordiness in the Qur'anic diction. It conveys God's Message concisely, with clarity and precision.
Again, Please show us a prophecy of your "prophet" that was fulfilled.
(And I'm not asking for nonsense like this)
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=564.msg2278#msg2278
Quote from: punisher on June 16, 2010, 07:28:08 AM
We believe in All Prophets.
We don't reject Prophets.????
We only reject the fabrication by christian and Jew that some prophets are son of Allah
That's what I said.
You reject them all as revealed in the Gospel.
You reject the main subject of the Gospel - the whole point of the new covenant -
because you must in order to follow Mohammed's 7th century record that taught the EXACT OPPOSITE.http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=148.0
Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=54.0
Quote from: punisher on June 16, 2010, 07:28:08 AM
Allah Say in Quran
Why u don't think a man like muhammad can write a book with no errors .....
Come on my friend, that's ridiculous. Even Mohammed knew what a self-contradicting mess he made of his recitations over that brief 23 years. If he had been literate he might have been able to take notes and keep track of them better.
2:106 (Asad)
Any message which, We annul or consign to oblivion We replace with a better or a similar one. Dost thou not know that God has the power to will anything?
He also knew exactly how he would be perceived, indeed was perceived in his own time, by those who hadn't been brainwashed into rejecting the God of the Jews and Christians, to follow Mohammed's STAND-ALONE 7th century religion
Surah 16:101 When We substitute one revelation for another, and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),
they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not.
Islamic scholars (through naskh) understand that by those "stages", to resolve all the contradictions, that the later dated suras that contradict the earlier suras, are the ones that are to be followed.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=116.0
Quote from: Peter on June 16, 2010, 07:37:26 AM
Again, Please show us a prophecy of your "prophet" that was fulfilled.
(And I'm not asking for nonsense like this)
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=564.msg2278#msg2278
Prophecies Made by The Prophet Jesus(pbuh) about MuhammadI have explained it in below posts
"
Muhammad In Bible
(http://www.jamaat.net/muh-christ/Image24.jpg)
Ahmed", or "Muhummed", the Praised one, is almost a translation of the Greek word Periclytos. In the present Gospel of John 14:16, 15:26, and 16:7, the word "Comforter" in the English version for the Greek word "Paracletos", which means "Advocate", "one called to the help of another, a kind friend", rather than "Comforter". Our doctors contend that Paracletos is a corrupt reading for Periclytos and that in the original saying of Jesus there was a prophecy of our holy Prophet Ahmed by name. Even if we read Paraclete, it would imply to the Holy Prophet, who is "a Mercy for all creatures" (H.Q. 21:107) and "most kind and merciful to the Believers" (H.Q. 9:128) See also note 416 to H.Q. 3:81.
MUHUMMED (PBUH) IS THE "PARACLETE"
To the sincere seekers of Truth it is obvious that Muhummed (pbuh) is the promised Paraclete or Comforter, alternatively called Helper, Advocate, Counsellor, etc of the prophecies of Jesus (pbuh) in the Gospel of St. John. There are millions of Christians — men and women like our good lady at the Cairo Airport who are hungry for this simple straight-forward Message. But alas, we can only weep with Jesus (pbuh) for our utter ineptitude —
The harvest truly is plenteous, but the workers are few.
(HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 9: 57
LANGUAGE OF JESUS (PBUH)
In the Holy Qur'an God Almighty puts the name "Ahmed" which is another name for Muhummed (pbuh) in the mouth of Jesus (pbuh). The Christian controversialist, Bible-thumper, Hot-Gospeller flippantly scoffs at the suggestion. The Christian missionary does not deny that Jesus (pbuh) did make a prophecy about someone coming after him. But "Ahmed" to him seems too far-fetched.
The most commonly accepted name by Christendom is "Comforter" It does not really matter Comforter or any other equivalent term will do. We will settle for Comforter as used in the most popular Bible Translation the "King James Version."
Ask your adversary, your disputant whether Jesus (pbuh) spoke the English language? "Most definitely not!" any Christian will say. If you are sharing this with an Arab Christian then you can ask him whether his "lord" used the word "MOOUZZI?" Surely not, because Arabic was not his language. Did Jesus (pbuh) prophesy "uMthokozisi?" (Comforter in Zulu) or "Trooster" from the Afrikaans Bible? The answer again is a definite NO!"
The Christians are rightfully boasting that they now have translated the complete Bible into hundreds of different languages, and the New Testament (in which this prophecy abounds) into more than two thousand different languages and dialects. So the Christian genius has invented more than 2000 different names in 2000 different languages for this one candidate — Comforter!
Quote
You must reject the prophets and witnesses as revealed in the Gospel to follow Mohammed, who was and taught, the exact opposite.
So please show us a prophecy of your "prophet" that was fulfilled.
Brother what is Gospel and what is Bible, 250000 approximately version of Bible u have, All are corrupted by the people to change the law of Allah,
Muhammad was the last messenger of Allah, and jesus had tell his people about Muhammad, that's how the prophecy fullfilled, I explained it very clear above???
We don't know who is Gospel or who is peter
We know Jesus and his prophecy are fullfilled,
Do u believe in the word of Jesus???????/
Quote from: punisher on June 16, 2010, 11:57:23 AM
Quote from: Peter on June 16, 2010, 07:37:26 AM
Again, Please show us a prophecy of your "prophet" that was fulfilled.
(And I'm not asking for nonsense like this)
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=564.msg2278#msg2278
Prophecies Made by The Prophet Jesus(pbuh) about Muhammad
I have explained it in below posts
I'm not asking for Deedat's lies and foolishness. His fraud is exposed repeatedly in this forum.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=33.0
I'm asking
what prophecies in the Quran, that Mohammed himself prophesied were fulfilled?
Let me partially summarize. You follow a single 7th century man because he claimed to be a prophet, yet not a single prophecy he made in the Quran, has ever been fulfilled.
Even though there is no evidence that this man was a prophet, you believe his claims that his "Allah" and Gabriel gave him "revelations", even though not a single person ever heard Allah's or Gabriel's voice speak to him. This even though Mohammed himself believed it was a demon that met him in that cave. There can be no question in a true Christian's mind, because Mohammed was and taught the exact opposite of Jesus Christ.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=148.0
Mohammed's "Allah" was so confused over the brief 23 year record of Mohammed's "revelations" that Mohammed even had to write suras to excuse away all his contradictions and resulting changes. A whopping 71 out of only 114 chapters are subject to abrogation - naskh.
Mohammed had to explain how all of the later verses that call for violence against non-Muslims, relegate to oblivion, his earlier more peaceful suras from his Mecca days.
Do you really believe the one true God would be that confused?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=116.0
A bunch of preposterous nonsense laced with poorly remembered Arabic and Hebrew fables that he learned from wives, concubines, Jabr, Tubba and his tri-lingual Jewish secretary.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=452.0
An phony history of his religion alllegedly since Adam, that was A FICTION CREATED IN IT'S ENTIRETY in the 7th and 8th century by guys like Ishak and Tabari, without A SINGLE REFERENCE TO ACTUAL HISTORICAL RECORD.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=56.0
Do you really believe that a true God would give Mohammed all the wives he wanted, but only for him?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=466.0
Do you really believe that a good God would give Mohammed a revelation to allow him to steal his step-son's only wife?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=134.0
Do you really believe that a good God would encourage capturing and raping women as "spoils of war - booty"?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=456.0
A man whose "Allah's" heaven, as conceived through the child-like mind of a 7th century illiterate man, that walked purely in the flesh, is an all-U-can-eat chicken and wine joint, with boy servants and multiple virgins to defile.
And a regional heaven at that, offering relief from cold desert nights, and hot desert days.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=264.0
Jesus healed the lame so they could walk.
Mohammed brought lameness to the walking. "...they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off."
Jesus brought sight to the blind.
Mohammed brought blindness to the seeing. "...he ordered for nails which were heated and passed over their eyes..."
Jesus brought the dead back to life.
Mohammed murdered the living.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=127.0
You reject the record that contains the accounts of Jesus' and the Apostles miracles, to follow the phony record of a single 7th century individual, that never performed a single miracle.
________________
What you largely posted so far in this thread demonstrates that you find comfort in the words of men with false beliefs and personal opinions, because they help encourage you to blaspheme the God of the Bible and reject His record. You may think that's fun. Here's what God makes you.
1John 5:10 He that BELIEVETH ON THE SON OF GOD hath the witness in himself: HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT GOD HATH MADE HIM A LIAR; because HE BELIEVED NOT THE RECORD that God gave OF HIS SON.
And the result?
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT THE SON SHALL NOT SEE LIFE, BUT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDETH ON HIM.
Whether the Jehovah's Witness cult that must reject the Bible to follow their false prophet Charles Taze Russell, or the Church of England that is heading so apostate they are trying to play footsie with antichrist Islam.
I agree that modern versions of the Bible got worse and worse, just as men have. Men will be men.
Virtually all of those versions spring from a corrupt Greek version written by two 19th century spiritualists.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=81.0
But God's Word has been preserved.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=97.0
And the Quran? "Preserved" in the minds of men! That is the few that were left after that battle. And even after all of Mohammed's blundering, all of the variant copies except a selected preferred version, were collected up and burned, on two separate occasions, under Uthman and Bakr. Shiites claim that 25% of the Quran is still missing.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=96.0
For pity's sakes, Aisha claimed that goats went in her room and ate part of it. Do you really believe that is the way God would preserve His Word?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1067.0
You criticize differing views that Christians hold about portions of the Bible that leave room for interpretation, that result in various denominations, even as Sunnis and Shiites murder each others innocent men, women and children over their differences. Particularly Sunni on Shiite murder.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=54.0
You reject all of the witnesses of Jesus Christ as revealed in the Gospel, who you yourself believe is the only person in human history to be born of a virgin, who Muslims also believe to be sinless, to follow a man whose personal behavior, as revealed through your own books, displayed one of the blackest hearts in human history.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=336.0
We have over 5300 partial or complete manuscripts of the New Testament that were penned prior to fourth century A.D., many of those much earlier.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=97.0
By Mohammed's 7th century it had been copied tens of thousands of times, in every popular language that was known to man, and was being read all over the known world.
Please show me in the Quran where even your phony prophet Mohammed teaches you that the Gospel is corrupt.
Please show me where Mohammed instructs you or me to reject the Gospel.
Sura 5:47 Let the PEOPLE OF THE GOSPEL JUDGE BY WHAT ALLAH HATH REVEALED THEREIN. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.
Was Mohammed's "Allah" simply suffering more confusion and delusion when he inspired that surah IN THE 7TH CENTURY? Didn't he know the Bible had been corrupted?
Prophecies Made by The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
"When a prophet speaks in the Name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word which the Lord has not spoken, the prophet has spoken it presumptuously, you need not be afraid of him.".(Deuteronomy 18:21-22)
Introduction
Very often Christians reject the prophetic mission of the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) under the delusion that he made no prophecies. This claim was recently exemplified by a member of the answering-islam.org team called Andrew Vargo, who claimed that:-
"Muhammad fancied himself a Prophet like Jesus and the Prophets of the Old Testament. The problem with Muhammad's claim is that a Prophet must give prophecies (detailed predictions of future events which must come true) in order to be called a Prophet. One does not bestow the title on himself as Muhammad did. Muhammad failed the Bible's test and, therefore, cannot be considered a Prophet" (Andrew Vargo, http://www.answering-islam.org/responses/badawi/radio/RA200K63.htm)
However, this shows a serious lack of understanding. Muhammad (pbuh) was the seal of the Prophets and he probably made more prophecies than any other prophet. In this article we will discuss the Prophecies made by Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), under three separate sections: Prophecies from the Qur'an; Prophecies from the Hadeeths; Prophecies concerning the last days.
This article will (insh'allah) not only refute the ideas of those evangelists who try to deny the mission of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) but also provide further evidence that Muhammad (pbuh) was a genuine prophet who was sent to call humanity back to true monotheism as practiced by all previous prophets and the worship of the one and true God.
Prophecies from the Qur'an
The triumph of the Byzantines over the Persians
1. The Byzantine and Persian Empires were the super-powers of the time. It was during the years when the few believers were severely persecuted in Makka that the Persians utterly defeated the Byzantines. They had sweeping victories, and conquered Aleppo, Antioch, and the chief Syrian provinces, including Damascus. Jerusalem fell to their arms in 614-615. The Christians were massacred and their churches burnt. The Persian flood of conquest went on to Egypt, and reached as far as Tripoli in North Africa. Another Persian army ravaged Asia Minor and reached right up to the gates of Constantinople. The Makkan pagans rejoiced greatly, and redoubled their taunts and persecution against the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, whose Message was a renewal of the Message of Jesus preached in Palestine. The following Qur'anic verses, which were revealed just at that time, gave certain tidings of a very near victory of the Romans over the Perisans:
The Romans have been defeated in a land close by, but they, after their defeat, will be victorious, within nine years. God's is the command in the former case and in the latter, and on that day believers will rejoice, with the help of God. He helps to victory whom He wills. He is the All-Mighty, the All-Compassionate. (al-Rum, 30.1-5)
No one at that time could make such a prediction. But the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, conveyed these Divine Revelations to his followers. They confirmed him without hesitation and Abu Bakr bet the Makkan polytheists that the Romans would be victorious in nine years. Heraclius, the Roman Emperor attacked the Persians initially by sea in 622 (the year of the Hijra), and after decisive battles and three successive campaigns, put them to rout in a few years. His victories happened at the same time as the believers won the victory of Badr over the Makkan polytheists. Thus the verses above contained two predictions, both of which came true in nine years.
The Qur'an gave the news of the conquest of Makka two years before
2. It was only six years after the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, had emigrated to Madina that he left for Makka for a minor pilgrimage. However, the Makkans stopped him at Hudaybiya and a peaceful treaty was concluded after negotiations. Some articles of the Treaty were objected to by the believers but the Qur'anic verses which were revealed following the conclusion of the Treaty described it as a manifest victory and gave the believers the decisive glad tiding, which is as follows:
In truth, God fulfilled the vision of His Messenger: You will surely enter the Sacred Mosque, if God wills, in full security; you will have your heads shaved, your hair shortened, and you will have nothing to fear. He knew what you knew not, and He granted, besides this, a near victory. He it is Who has sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth, that He may cause it to prevail over all religion. God is enough for a witness. (al-Fath, 48.27-8)
One year later the Muslims performed the minor pilgrimage and the year after they conquered Makka. Also, Islam has been prevalent over all other religions for centuries and, if God wills, it will have a world-wide superiority in a near future.
The Qur'an gave the news that the dead body of Pharaoh would one day be discovered
3. In ancient Egypt, Pharaoh used to torture the Children of Israel. God sent Moses to him with the mission of inviting him to believe in One God and allow the Israelites to leave Egypt with Moses. Pharaoh refused and the struggle between them continued for a long time. However, one night Moses succeeded in marching towards the frontier with his people but Pharaoh, becoming aware of his attempt, set out to follow him. When Moses reached the Red Sea, he touched it with his staff, and a furrow opened across the sea. Pharaoh attempted to follow him, but was engulfed with his legions. While narrating this event, The Qur'an makes a very interesting prediction:
Today We shall preserve your body that you may be a sign to those after you: although most men give no heed to Our signs. (Yunus, 10.92)
The dead body of Pharaoh was later found floating on the Western shores of the Sinai peninsula. The native residents can still show you to this land, which is now known as Jabal Firawn (Hill of Pharaoh). A few miles from this hill is a hot spring called Hammam Firawn (the Bath of Pharaoh).
Promise of Victory
4.The Qur'an says:"Allah has promised to those of you who believe, and do good deeds, that He will surely grant them in the land inheritance of power as He granted it to those before them; that He will establish in authority their religion which He has chosen for them. And that He will change their state after fear to one of security and peace. They will worship Me alone and not associate aught with Me." (24:55) And also: "Say to those who deny faith, soon you will be vanquished." (3:12) and "When comes the help of Allah and Victory, and you see the people enter Allah's religion in multitudes . . ." (110:1-2)
The first verse was revealed at a time of the Muslim's weakness, promising the righteous victory, and the second predicting the peoples entering into Islam in crowds, and so it came to pass, after the capture of Mecca, and in the time of the Caliphs Abu Bakr, 'Umar, 'Uthman and 'Ali, who were from the most pious companions of the Prophet, were established by Allah in the land, defeating the Persian and Roman empires, so that Islam was established from Spain to parts of China in a mere twenty years. This, in part, fulfills another prophecy of the Qur'an: "It is He who has sent the Messenger with guidance, and the religion of truth, to make it triumphant over all religions." (9:32) Christianity, Judaism, paganism have never regained any lasting dominance, physically and intellectually since the coming of Islam. The secular philosophies of communism and capitalism are in the process of being dealt death blows. At the present rate of growth Islam will over take Christianity by 2025 in terms of numbers. See also Qur'an 48:18-21 and 1:13, which promise victory.
Tidings of the Last Day
5. A considerable part of the Qur'an is about the events of the Last Day. The Qur'an describes how the world will be destroyed and re-built again and how the dead will be raised, assembled in the Place of Mustering, and, after being judged, will go to either Paradise or Hell. The Qur'an also gives a vivid description of Paradise and Hell and the life in them.
Examples of the Prophet's predictions which exist in books of Tradition (hadeeths)
1 "Umar reports in a narration recorded in Sahih al-Muslim:
"Before the Battle of Badr started, God's Messenger, upon him be peace and blessings, walked around the battlefield and pointed to some locations, saying, Abu Jahl will be killed here, 'Utba here, Shayba here, Walid here, and so on. By God, we found, after the battle, the dead bodies of all those men in the exact places that God's Messenger had pointed out."
While in Makka under great tortures, the Prophet predicted the future victories of Islam
2. Bukhari and Abu Dawud quote Habbab ibn Arat, who said:
Once, during the days of trouble and torture in Makka, I went to God's Messenger, who was sitting in the shade of the Ka'ba. I was still a slave in the hands of the Makkans then. They inflicted on me severe tortures. Unable to endure those tortures any more, I requested God's Messenger to pray to God for help and salvation. But he turned towards me and said:
By God, previous communities had to endure more pitiless tortures. Some of them were made to lie in ditches and cut in two with saws but this did not make them forsake their faith. They were skinned alive but they never became weak against the enemy. Surely God will perfect this religion, but you display undue haste. A day will come when a woman will travel alone by herself from San'a to Hadramawt fearing nothing but wild beasts. However, you show impatience.
Habbab concluded:
By God, what God's Messenger predicted that day, have all come true. I have personally witnessed it all.
The Messenger predicted 'Ammar's martyrdom in a civil war
3. Bukhari, Muslim and Ahmad ibn Hanbal record:
During the construction of the Prophet's Mosque in Madina, God's Messenger, upon him be peace and blessings, told 'Ammar:
What a pity O 'Ammar, a rebellious group will kill you.
'Ammar was killed in the Battle of Siffin by the supporters of Mu'awiya, who rebelled against Caliph 'Ali.
The Prophet foretold that Fatima would join him first of all after his death
4. Before his death, the Messenger called his daughter Fatima to his bedside and informed her that she would be the first among his family to join him after his death. Fatima joined her father, the pride of mankind, six months later.
The Prophet predicted the Mongol invasion
5. The Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, predicted the Mongol invasion, saying:
The Hour will not come before you fight against a people with red faces, small, slant eyes and flat noses. They wear hairy leather boots.
The Messenger predicted the caliphate of Abu Bakr and 'Umar
6. As related by Hakim, Tirmidhi, Ibn Hanbal and Ibn Maja, by repeatedly declaring, You should, after my death, follow the way of Abu Bakr and 'Umar, the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, meant that Abu Bakr and 'Umar would succeed him as caliphs. He also predicted that Abu Bakr's reign would be short, whereas 'Umar would remain longer to be able to make many conquests.
The Prophet predicted the conquest of many important cities
7. According to authentic narrations, the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, gave his community the glad tidings that they would conquer Damascus, Jerusalem, Iraq, Persia, Istanbul (Constantinople) and Cyprus, and that the religion of Islam would reach as far as the remotest corners of the world in the east and west.
The Prophet predicted the forms of government after him
8. The Prophet declared:
This affair began with Prophethood and as a mercy; then it will be mercy and Caliphate; afterwards it will change into a cruel monarchy, and finally into an iniquity and tyranny. He also prophesied: Surely, the Caliphate after me will last thirty years; afterwards it will a cruel monarchy.
Whatever the noble Prophet predicted came true.
The Prophet predicted the caliphate and martyrdom of 'Uthman
9. According to an authentic narration, the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, declared:
'Uthman will be killed while reading the Qur'an. God will dress him in a shirt but they will desire to remove it from him.
By this saying, he meant that 'Uthman would become Caliph but his deposition would be sought, and finally he would be martyred while reading the Qur'an. This happened exactly as he predicted.
The Prophet foretold the future victories of Sa'd
10. As narrated in a authentic Tradition, the noble Prophet of God, upon him be peace and blessings, said to Sa'd ibn Abi Waqqas when the latter was gravely ill:
It is hoped that you will be spared so that some people may benefit through you and some others be harmed through you.
By this, he suggested that Sa'd would be a great commander and make many conquests, and while many peoples would benefit from him by converting to Islam, many others would be harmed through him as a result of the collapse of their states.
Sa'd, just as predicted by the holy Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, took the command of the Muslim armies and destroyed the Persian Sassanid Empire, bringing many peoples within the guidance of Islam.
The Prophet predicted the conquest of Cyprus
11. Once, when the Prophet woke up in the house of Umm Haram, the aunt of Anas ibn Malik, who served the Messenger for ten years in Madina, he smilingly said:
I dreamt that my community would be waging war in the sea sitting on thrones like kings.
Umm Haram asked: "Pray that I too may be with them". He said firmly: You shall be.
All this came true forty years later when Umm Haram accompanied her husband 'Ubada ibn Samit, on the conquest of Cyprus. She died there, and her tomb has since been a visited place.
The Prophet predicted the appearance of Mukhtar and Hajjaj
12. According to an authentic narration, the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, declared:
From the tribe of Thaqif will appear a liar who claims Prophethood and a blood-thirsty tyrant.
By this, he gave tidings of the notorious Mukhtar, who claimed Prophethood, and the criminal Hajjaj, who killed tens of thousands of people.
The Prophet predicted the conquest of Istanbul
13. Again, according to an authentic narration, the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, declared:
Surely, Constantinople (Istanbul) will be conquered (by my community); how blessed the commander who will conquer it, and how blessed his army.
He thus foretold the conquest of Istanbul by Muslims, and indicated the high spiritual rank of Sultan Mehmed, the Conqueror, and the virtuousness of his army. What he foretold took place centuries later.
The Prophet mentioned that there would be signs forewarning the approach of the last day.
a. The barefooted bedouins competing in building tall buildings. Today we find in the Arabian Peninsula, the Arabs who used to be impoverished herders of camels and sheep, are competing in building the tallest tower blocks. Two of the latest examples are Kingdom Center in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia and Al Faisaliah Center in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia (see http://skyscraperpage.com/new/kingdomcenter.htm, http://skyscraperpage.com/new/alfaisaliahcenter.htm)
b. The Mosques would be like palaces. This is clearly the case, even though the Prophet ordered simplicity in the houses of Allah, the mosques have become more and more fantastic, with golden domes, marbled floors, lavish carpets and chandeliers. (see http://home.mweb.co.za/ka/kayef/images/masjinabi.jpg)
c. Disappearance of trustworthiness, so much so that one would only be able to say: "I know a trustworthy person in such-and-such town."
d. The increase in killing, so that the one who kills does not know why he killed, and the one killed does not know why he was killed. I was recently sent an article from the Washington Post about the rise of gang warfare. Part of the initiation ceremony was for a new gang member(some times as young as eleven) to shoot someone. The second highest cause of death from fifteen to thirty five in the US are gun related. The massacre of civilians in the Vietnam War by American troops who had little idea why they were there, and the increase of such conflicts, is further illustration of the fulfillment of this prophecy. As are the rise of insane mass murders, of children killing children, such as Jamie Bulger.
e. The increase of the use of riba (usury/interest) so that no one will able to escape being tainted by it. This clearly the state of the world economy today.
f. The enemies of the Muslims dividing the Muslim's wealth and lands between them, the Muslims abandoning jihad, and concerning themselves only with the worldly matters. We have already mentioned this.
g. The increase of literacy.
h. The decrease of religious knowledge due to the disappearance of scholars.
i. The increase of musical instruments, and the Muslims making it lawful even though the Prophet has forbidden them.
j. The increase of sexual promiscuity, and new diseases that people had not herd of before spreading amongst them as a consequence of that. This is clear, with the arrival of AIDS, and other previously unheard of viruses.
k. Appearance of Dajjals (liars), each claiming to be a Messenger of Allah, while Muhammad is the last messenger. There are numerous examples of this, starting with Musailima, who arose in the time of the Prophet, just before his death, to more modern liars such as Elija Muhammad, founder of the Black American racist movement "The Nation of Islam", and India's pretender Gulam Ahmed of Qadian.
l. Nakedness of women while still being dressed and people copulating like donkeys in public. Obviously a direct reference to soft and hard-core pornography, which has become a dark stain on our society in recent times.
m. The drinking of wine becoming common, and the Muslims making it lawful by calling it another name.
n. Shouting in the mosques and lack of unity.
o. The worst and most ignorant will become leaders and they will be oppressors. Bill Clinton, saddam Hussain and majority of worlds Leaders are prime examples.
p. A man will obey his wife and disobey his mother, and treat his friends kindly and shun his father.
q. Men will wear silk and gold, and the making of it lawful by the Muslims even though the Prophet had forbidden it for the men of his 'Ummah (nation).
r. People will abandon the religion for a small worldly gain, and keeping to the religion will be like holding two hot coals.
Conclusion
How is it that even though the Prophet made all these prophecies, Christian missionaries are still trying to reject the prophetic mission of Muhammad (pbuh). Ever since the advent of Islam, Christians have been unable to challenge the teachings of Islam, therefore they have had to try and resort to lies and distortions of the Holy Qur'an in order to support their claims. They have fabricated lies against the Prophet, claimed he was epileptic, claimed he was conspiring with Jew/
Christians and some have even claimed he was the devil in disguise. We would like to ask those so-called missionaries, aren't these the exact claims the Jews made against the prophet Jesus (pbuh). However, they seem to be in a state of ignorance fuelled by pride and prejudice, adamant of repeating the same mistakes the Jews made by refusing to open their hearts to the beauty of Islam. As Allah informs us in the Qur'an:
And say: "Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood
is (by its nature) bound to perish." (Qur'an 17.81)
Allah knows best!
References
Proofs of the Divine Origins of the Qur'an by 'Abdur-Raheem Green (http://www.muslim-answers.org/proofs-t.htm)
Understanding and Belief - The Essentials of Islamic Faith I, By Fethullah gullen (http://www.fethullahgulen.org/)
Quote from: Peter on June 16, 2010, 10:02:27 PM
Let me partially summarize. You follow a single 7th century man because he claimed to be a prophet, yet not a single prophecy he made in the Quran, has ever been fulfilled.
I think i have made it very clear?????????????
QuoteEven though there is no evidence that this man was a prophet, you believe his claims that his "Allah" and Gabriel gave him "revelations", even though not a single person ever heard Allah's or Gabriel's voice speak to him. This even though Mohammed himself believed it was a demon that met him in that cave. There can be no question in a true Christian's mind, because Mohammed was and taught the exact opposite of Jesus Christ.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=148.0
Infact u r rejecting the prophecies of Jesus Christ. Becuase Jesus himself gave glad tiding of Prophet??
Ur Bible is so corrupted by the thoughts of people that the original text is always missing??
What do u believe in comrade???
QuoteMohammed's "Allah" was so confused over the brief 23 year record of Mohammed's "revelations" that Mohammed even had to write suras to excuse away all his contradictions and resulting changes. A whopping 71 out of only 114 chapters are subject to abrogation - naskh.
Mohammed had to explain how all of the later verses that call for violence against non-Muslims, relegate to oblivion, his earlier more peaceful suras from his Mecca days.
Do you really believe the one true God would be that confused?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=116.0
Allah is not confused u r confused becuase ur Bible is so corrupted by 32 Scholar of Highest imminence, that only on the day of Judgment everyone will find the truth???
Brother everything is very Clear in Quran
ok can u please tell me do u believe Jesus was last Prophet???
Where in Bible it is written that Jesus was Last Prophet
and after him no more Prophets??
Infact Jesus himself told his people that after me a prophet is coming, his name is Ahmed????
QuoteBy Mohammed's 7th century it had been copied tens of thousands of times, in every popular language that was known to man, and was being read all over the known world.
Was Mohammed's "Allah" simply suffering more confusion and delusion when he inspired that surah IN THE 7TH CENTURY? Didn't he know the Bible had been corrupted?
Muhammad was an illiterate man, He didn't know how to read and write and didn't know howto copy paste
unless Allah made him teach????
(http://www.jesussonofjohn.com/Quran/096_files/image001.gif)
Transliteration 1. IQRA' BI- ISM RABB -KA 'ALLADHE KHALAQA
Yusuf Ali 1. Proclaim! (or Read!) in the name of thy Lord and Cherisher Who created
Pickthall 1. Read: In the name of thy Lord who createth,
Shakir 1 . Read in the name of your Lord Who created.
Comments The first thing revealed to the Messenger to mankind was a command to Read and that we must do so in his name, he that created.
(http://www.jesussonofjohn.com/Quran/096_files/image002.gif)
Transliteration 2. KHALAQA AL- 'INSAAN MIN cALAQ
Yusuf Ali 2. Created man out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood:
Pickthall 2. Createth man from a clot.
Shakir 2 . He created man from a clot.
Comments The second mention by our Lord is that He created man (insaan) from Alaq. A statement without exclusion, that man (all) is created from Alaq.
(http://www.jesussonofjohn.com/Quran/096_files/image003.gif)
Transliteration 3. IQRA' WA- RABB -KA AL- AKRAM
Yusuf Ali 3. Proclaim! And thy Lord is Most Bountiful
Pickthall 3. Read: And thy Lord is the Most Bounteous,
Shakir 3 . Read and your Lord is Most Honorable,
(http://www.jesussonofjohn.com/Quran/096_files/image004.gif)
Transliteration 4. 'ALLADHE cALLAMA BI- AL- QALAM
Yusuf Ali 4. He Who taught (the use of) the Pen
Pickthall 4. Who teacheth by the pen,
Shakir 4 . Who taught (to write) with the pen
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:46:24 AM
Quote from: Peter on June 16, 2010, 10:02:27 PM
Let me partially summarize. You follow a single 7th century man because he claimed to be a prophet, yet not a single prophecy he made in the Quran, has ever been fulfilled.
I think i have made it very clear?????????????
QuoteEven though there is no evidence that this man was a prophet, you believe his claims that his "Allah" and Gabriel gave him "revelations", even though not a single person ever heard Allah's or Gabriel's voice speak to him. This even though Mohammed himself believed it was a demon that met him in that cave. There can be no question in a true Christian's mind, because Mohammed was and taught the exact opposite of Jesus Christ.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=148.0
Infact u r rejecting the prophecies of Jesus Christ. Becuase Jesus himself gave glad tiding of Prophet??
Without question Jesus did prophesy Mohammed's coming.
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
But Mohammed came as a ravening wolf.
The PERFECT OPPOSITE of Jesus Christ.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=336.0
And John prophesied ...
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where THE BEAST and THE FALSE PROPHET [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:55:55 AM
QuoteBy Mohammed's 7th century it had been copied tens of thousands of times, in every popular language that was known to man, and was being read all over the known world.
Was Mohammed's "Allah" simply suffering more confusion and delusion when he inspired that surah IN THE 7TH CENTURY? Didn't he know the Bible had been corrupted?
Muhammad was an illiterate man, He didn't know how to read and write and didn't know howto copy paste
unless Allah made him teach????
For some reason the verse was excluded from your quote.
You seem to be suggesting that the reason Mohammed recited this surah .........
Sura 5:47
Let the PEOPLE OF THE GOSPEL JUDGE BY WHAT ALLAH HATH REVEALED THEREIN. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.
..... is because he was too mentally challenged to learn how to read?
Allah says of the Christians: "And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear God. Let the people of the Gospel judge by what God hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel".(2)
In this divine verse, the Qur'an condemns some of the People of the Book, Jews and Christians who ignored the teachings of the Torah and the Bible and the truth that is so manifest in them: "If only the People of the Book had believed and been righteous, We should indeed have blotted out their iniquities and admitted them to gardens of bliss. If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is from among them a party on the right course: but many of them follow a course that is evil".(3)
Addressing the People of the Book, the Qur'an emphasised that their straying from the right path was the result of their carelessness vis-à-vis the books of their prophets, and that all the People of the Book who abided by the rules set out in the revelations made to their prophets were considered as believers given the fact that the messages revealed to all these prophets were in essence one and the same.
This point is highlighted in more verses of the same Surah: "Say: O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over (these) people without Faith. Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. We took the covenant of the Children of Israel and sent them apostles, every time, there came to them an apostle with what they themselves desired not - some (of these) they called impostors, and some they (go so far as to) slay"(1).
While calling the people of the Book to embrace Islam, the Qur'an is also stressing that it is at the same time a call to embrace all divine messages as Allah says: "O ye People of the Book! Believe in what We have (now) revealed, confirming what was (already) with you, before We change the face and fame of some (of you) beyond all recognition, and turn them hindwards, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbath-breakers, for the decision of God Must be carried out".(2)
Brother this is exact Background of Verse, I think by choosing a single verse u can't understand what is the real meaning
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 06:45:00 AM
In this divine verse, the Qur'an condemns some of the People of the Book, Jews and Christians who ignored the teachings of the Torah and the Bible and the truth that is so manifest in them: .....
Mohammed
condemned people for not following the Gospel (even though he taught
the exact opposite of the Gospel).
Not a word of what you wrote suggests that Mohammed taught the Gospel is corrupt. Only men who don't follow it. So how do you come off knowing better than Mohammed and his "Allah"?
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 06:45:00 AM..... "If only the People of the Book had believed and been righteous, We should indeed have blotted out their iniquities and admitted them to gardens of bliss. If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is from among them a party on the right course: but many of them follow a course that is evil".(3)
Addressing the People of the Book, the Qur'an emphasised that their straying from the right path was the result of their carelessness vis-à-vis the books of their prophets, and that all the People of the Book who abided by the rules set out in the revelations made to their prophets were considered as believers given the fact that the messages revealed to all these prophets were in essence one and the same.
This point is highlighted in more verses of the same Surah: "Say: O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over (these) people without Faith. Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians .......
The Sabians were a 2nd century occult cult (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=sabians+occult&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=CahQg9AEaTPOCBaPuzASp-aifAwAAAKoEBU_QbVVn), that Mohammed and 4 of his cousins were into up to their eyeballs.
"The Honafa', or Ahnaf, was a small group started when four Sabians at Mecca agreed. Those four were Zayd bin Amru bin Nafil, Waraqa bin Naufal, Ubaydullah bin Jahsh, and Uthman Bin al-Huwayrith.[xxxi][31]
The four founders of Ahnaf were all related to Mohammed. They were descendants of Loayy, one of Mohammed's ancestors. Furthermore, Waraqa bin Naufal and Uthman Bin al-Huwayrith were cousins of Khadijah. We know this from Mohammed's genealogy presented by Ibn Hisham.[xxxii][32] Ubaydullah Bin Jahsh was a maternal cousin to Mohammed. Mohammed married his widow, Um Habibeh. All this reveals the close connection between Mohammed and the founders of the group."
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1173.0
It is from the Sabians that Mohammed copied the customs of praying 5 times a day and performing ablution - not from taking a fanciful ride on a flying camel to Jerusalem, heaven and back, as he pretended - and Muslims actually believe.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1252.0
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 06:45:00 AM....... and the Christians,- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. We took the covenant of the Children of Israel and sent them apostles, every time, there came to them an apostle with what they themselves desired not - some (of these) they called impostors, and some they (go so far as to) slay"(1).
While calling the people of the Book to embrace Islam,.......
But of course the Jews chose to be slaughtered rather than to abandon the one true God that they had been following for 2,000 years, in favor of Mohammed's repackaged Arabian moon, sun, planet and demon worship.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1263.0
Quote from: Peter on June 17, 2010, 07:14:43 AM....... the Qur'an is also stressing that it is at the same time a call to embrace all divine messages as Allah says: "O ye People of the Book! Believe in what We have (now) revealed, confirming what was (already) with you, before We change the face and fame of some (of you) beyond all recognition, and turn them hindwards, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbath-breakers, for the decision of God Must be carried out".(2)
Brother this is exact Background of Verse, I think by choosing a single verse u can't understand what is the real meaning
So then you are stuck. Try it again.
WHERE DID MOHAMMED SAY THE GOSPEL IS CORRUPT?What did Mohammed instruct even those who believe in Mohammed?
Surah 4:136
O ye who believe! Believe in Allah and His Messenger, and the scripture which He hath sent to His Messenger and
the scripture which He sent to those before (him). Any who denieth Allah, His angels,
His Books, His Messengers, and the Day of Judgment,
hath gone far, far astray.So where does Mohammed confirm your claim that the Gospel has been corrupted?
Why we Muslim don't believe in Gospel
The Gospel of Mark:
"Although there is no direct internal evidence of authorship, it was the unanimous testimony of the early church that this Gospel was written by John Mark. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 1488)"
So, in reality, we don't really know whether Mark was the sole author of this Gospel or not. And since The New Testament wasn't even documented on paper until 150-300 years (depending on what Christian you talk to) after Jesus, then how are we to know for sure that the current "Gospel of Mark" wasn't written by some pro of Mark?
I hope you see the real danger in making these assumptions when you are willing to DIE for the fact that such Gospel is the actual True Word of GOD Almighty!
Further regarding this Gospel, we read the following commentary about Mark 16:9-20:
"Serious doubts exists as to whether these verses belong to the Gospel of Mark. They are absent from important early manuscripts and display certain peculiarities of vocabulary, style and theological content that are unlike the rest of Mark. His Gospel probably ended at 16:8, or its original ending has been lost. (From the NIV Bible Foot Notes, page 1528)"
This quote raises a very serious issue here. First of all, as we've seen above in the first quote, we have no evidence that proves that John Mark was the sole author of this so called "Gospel". Second of all, we see that this Gospel has some serious problems/suspicions in it. The issue of Mark 16:9-20 is a scary one, because many Christian cults today use poisonous snakes in their worship and end up dying.
Removing Mark 16:9-20 is quite appreciated by me personally (to be quite honest with you), because it prevents people from dying from snake bites. But however, the serious issue of man's corruption of the Bible remains.
We can be absolutely certain now that the above quotes prove without a doubt that the Bible is doubtful. The quote "or its original ending has been lost" proves that what we call today "Gospels" were not written by their original authors such as Mark, John, Matthew, etc... It proves that the Gospel had been tampered with by man. Let alone considering it as the True Living Words of GOD Almighty.
If John Mark wasn't the one who wrote Mark 16:9-20, then who did? And how can you prove the ownership of the other person? Let alone proving that it was GOD Almighty's Revelation. And as we saw in the first quote above, we don't even know that John Mark was indeed the one who wrote the so called "Gospel of Mark".
To say the least in our case here, we now have enough evidence to discard the entire Gospel of Mark from the Bible, because you can't take bits and pieces of it and say some of it belongs to him and some of it doesn't! Let alone considering the entire corrupted Gospel as the True Living Word of GOD Almighty, which is a complete blasphemy.
Allah Almighty Said:
"Do they not ponder on the Qur'an? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy. (The Noble Quran, 4:82)"
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
Prophecies from the Qur'an
The triumph of the Byzantines over the Persians
1. The Byzantine and Persian Empires were the super-powers of the time. It was during the years when the few believers were severely persecuted in Makka that the Persians utterly defeated the Byzantines. They had sweeping victories, and conquered Aleppo, Antioch, and the chief Syrian provinces, including Damascus. Jerusalem fell to their arms in 614-615. The Christians were massacred and their churches burnt. The Persian flood of conquest went on to Egypt, and reached as far as Tripoli in North Africa. Another Persian army ravaged Asia Minor and reached right up to the gates of Constantinople. The Makkan pagans rejoiced greatly, and redoubled their taunts and persecution against the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, whose Message was a renewal of the Message of Jesus preached in Palestine. The following Qur'anic verses, which were revealed just at that time, gave certain tidings of a very near victory of the Romans over the Perisans:
The Romans have been defeated in a land close by, but they, after their defeat, will be victorious, within nine years. God's is the command in the former case and in the latter, and on that day believers will rejoice, with the help of God. He helps to victory whom He wills. He is the All-Mighty, the All-Compassionate. (al-Rum, 30.1-5)
First of all this is ridiculous. Given the close proximity of fulfillment to prophecy such "predictions" are easy to make. Biblical prophecies give exact time frames and are given far enough in advance to eliminate the possiblility of informed guess work. Also the verse above is rendered incorrectly. It actually reads,
S. 30:2-4:
"The Roman Empire has been defeated - in a land close by: But they, (even) after (this) defeat of theirs, will soon be victorious - within a few years."
The deviation is likely due to the hadith where Muhammad corrected Abu Bakr on how long the event would be to its' fulfillment.
"This passage refers to the defeat of the Byzantines in Syria by the Persians under Khusran Parvis. (A.D. 615 - 6 years before the Hegira). However, the defeat of the Persians should take place soon 'in a small number of years'. In the light of this prediction, Abu-Bakr undertook a bet with Ubai-ibn-Khalaf that this prediction would be fulfilled within three years, but he was corrected by Mohammed who stated that the 'small number' is between three and nine years (Al-Baizawi).
Interestingly enough Muhammad still wasn't sure when this was to happen and gave himself what he must have thought to be plenty of wiggle room.
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
No one at that time could make such a prediction. But the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, conveyed these Divine Revelations to his followers. They confirmed him without hesitation and Abu Bakr bet the Makkan polytheists that the Romans would be victorious in nine years. Heraclius, the Roman Emperor attacked the Persians initially by sea in 622 (the year of the Hijra), and after decisive battles and three successive campaigns, put them to rout in a few years. His victories happened at the same time as the believers won the victory of Badr over the Makkan polytheists. Thus the verses above contained two predictions, both of which came true in nine years.
What is even more damning in this prophecy is the fact that the victory did NOT come within nine years on 622 but rather 628.
The Persians defeated the Byzantines and captured Jerusalem at about A.D. 614 or 615. The Byzantine counter-offensive did not begin until A.D. 622 and the victory was not complete until A.D. 628, making it a period between thirteen to fourteen years, not "a few years" alluded to in the Quran.
And to further support this...
Renowned historian and Muslim commentator, al-Tabari, places the Roman victory in 628 A.D. (6 A.H.), right after the signing of Hudaiybiya:
According to Ibn Humayd- Salamah- Muhammad b. Ishaq- Ibn Shihab al-Zuhri- 'Ubaydallah b. 'Abdullah b. 'Utbah b. Mas'ud- 'Abdullah b. 'Abbas- Abu Sufyan b. Harb, who said: We were merchant folk. The warfare between us and the Messenger of God had prevented us from journeying, so that our wealth became depleted. After the truce between us and the Messenger of God, we feared that we might not encounter security. I set out for Syria with a group of merchants of Quraysh. Our specific destination was Gaza, and we arrived at the time of Heraclius' VICTORY over the Persians who were in his land - he expelled them and regained from them his Great Cross, which they had carried off. Having accomplished this against them and having received word that his cross had been rescued from them (he was staying at Hims), he set out from there on foot in thanksgiving to God for restoring it to him, to pray in Jerusalem. Carpets were spread out for him, and fragrant herbs were strewn on them. When he reached Jerusalem and performed his worship - with him were his military commanders and the nobles of the Romans - he arose troubled one morning, turning his gaze to the sky ... (The History of Al-Tabari: The Victory of Islam, translated by Michael Fishbein [State University of New York Press, Albany 1997], Volume VIII, pp. 100-101; bold and capital emphasis ours)
Then comes the particularly sordid part of the fact that when this verse was written there were no vowel points in the verse.
"The original Quranic text had no vowel marks. Thus, the Arabic word Sayaghlibuna, "they shall defeat," could easily have been rendered, with the change of two vowels, Sayughlabuna, "they (i.e. Romans) shall be defeated." Since vowel points were not added until some time after this event, it could have been quite possible for a scribe to deliberately tamper with the text, forcing it to become a prophetic statement.
This fact is solidified by Muslim commentator al-Baidawi. C.G. Pfander mentions Baidawi's comments on the variant readings surrounding this passage:
"But Al Baizawi shatters the whole argument of the Muslims by informing us of certain varied readings in these verses of Suratu'r Rum. He tells us that some read (Arabic text appears here) instead of the usual (Arabic text appears here) and (Arabic text appears here) instead of (Arabic text appears here). The rendering will then be: 'The Byzantines have conquered in the nearest part of the land, and they shall be defeated in a small number of years'. If this be the correct reading, the whole story about Abu Bakr's bet with Ubai must be a fable, since Ubai was dead long before the Muslims began to defeat the Byzantines, and even long before the victories which Heraclius won over the Persians. This shows how unreliable such Traditions are. The explanation which Al Baizawi gives is, that the Byzantines became conquerors of 'the well-watered land of Syria' (Arabic text appears here) and that the passage predicted that the Muslims would soon overcome them. If this is the meaning, the Tradition which records the 'descent' of the verses about six years before the Hijrah must be wrong, and the passage must belong to A.H. 6 at earliest. It is clear that, as the vowel points were not used when the Qur-an was first written down in Cufic letters, no one can be certain which of the two readings is right. We have seen that there is so much uncertainty about (1) the date at which the verses were 'sent down', (2) the correct reading, and (3) the meaning, that it is quite impossible to show that the passage contains a prophecy which was fulfilled. Hence, it cannot be considered to be a proof of Muhammad's prophetic office." (C. G. Pfander, Mizan-ul-Haqq - The Balance of Truth, revised and enlarged by W. St. Clair Tisdall [Light of Life P.O. Box 18, A-9503, Villach Austria], 279-280)"
Either way you slice it this is a false prophecy.
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 10:02:44 AM
Why we Muslim don't believe in Gospel
So then Mohammed's Allah was acting through ignorance when he instructed Muslims
Sura 4:136
O ye who believe! BELIEVE IN Allah and His Messenger, and the scripture which He hath sent to His Messenger and
THE SCRIPTURE WHICH HE SENT TO THOSE BEFORE (HIM). ANY WHO DENIETH Allah, His angels, HIS BOOKS, HIS MESSENGERS, and the Day of Judgment, HATH GONE FAR, FAR ASTRAY.
And to Christians
Sura 5:47
Let the PEOPLE OF THE GOSPEL JUDGE BY WHAT ALLAH HATH REVEALED THEREIN. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 10:02:44 AM
To say the least in our case here, we now have enough evidence to discard the entire Gospel of Mark from the Bible, because you can't take bits and pieces of it and say some of it belongs to him and some of it doesn't! Let alone considering the entire corrupted Gospel as the True Living Word of GOD Almighty, which is a complete blasphemy.
Finally! This is what has been pointed out to Muslims over and over. Yet you keep insisting on taking bits and pieces of the Bible as if it supports Mohammedanism, and rejecting the parts that don't, when
you must necessarily reject ALL of the prophets and apostles as they are revealed in the Bible. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1175.0
Thus you are left with NOTHING more than Mohammed's 23 YEAR 7TH CENTURY RECORD and his STAND-ALONE 7TH CENTURY RELIGION that is the THE EXACT OPPOSITE. Oh yea, and the addition of the
Islamic historical fiction that was created in the 7th and 8th centuries.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1483.0
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 10:02:44 AMAllah Almighty Said:
"Do they not ponder on the Qur'an? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy. (The Noble Quran, 4:82)"
And the very same massively confused "Allah" also said
2:106 (Asad)
Any message which, We annul or consign to oblivion We replace with a better or a similar one. Dost thou not know that God has the power to will anything?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=116.0
QuoteSura 4:136 O ye who believe! BELIEVE IN Allah and His Messenger, and the scripture which He hath sent to His Messenger and THE SCRIPTURE WHICH HE SENT TO THOSE BEFORE (HIM). ANY WHO DENIETH Allah, His angels, HIS BOOKS, HIS MESSENGERS, and the Day of Judgment, HATH GONE FAR, FAR ASTRAY.
Brother Peter is Clearly written
THE SCRIPTURE WHICH HE SENT TO THOSE BEFORE (HIM)I already to told the we Believe in Original InjeeL (Bible) which was revealed on Prophet Jesus (PBUH)
we believe in original Torah (Old Testament) which was revealed on Moses (PBUH)
We believe all previous scripture but not the scripture changed by the people after the Jesus???
and Quran is Final Scripture by Allah
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
The Qur'an gave the news of the conquest of Makka two years before
2. It was only six years after the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, had emigrated to Madina that he left for Makka for a minor pilgrimage. However, the Makkans stopped him at Hudaybiya and a peaceful treaty was concluded after negotiations. Some articles of the Treaty were objected to by the believers but the Qur'anic verses which were revealed following the conclusion of the Treaty described it as a manifest victory and gave the believers the decisive glad tiding, which is as follows:
In truth, God fulfilled the vision of His Messenger: You will surely enter the Sacred Mosque, if God wills, in full security; you will have your heads shaved, your hair shortened, and you will have nothing to fear. He knew what you knew not, and He granted, besides this, a near victory. He it is Who has sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth, that He may cause it to prevail over all religion. God is enough for a witness. (al-Fath, 48.27-8)
One year later the Muslims performed the minor pilgrimage and the year after they conquered Makka. Also, Islam has been prevalent over all other religions for centuries and, if God wills, it will have a world-wide superiority in a near future.
This is again ridiculous as the verse in question was given to appease the Muslims and tell them in UNCERTAIN terms, hence the "if Allah wills", that they would be allowed to perform the tawaf. They were on their way to do that when stopped by the Mekkan envoy and were not allowed to perform the tawaf. The deal that Muhammad brokered involved returning muslim converts to the Mekkan polytheists and revising Muhammad's title to "son of Abdullah" from "apostle of Allah". Now I ask you what prophet in the Bible ever compromised truth for convenience. In fact that is one of the hallmarks of a true prophet. No prophet from Moses to Jesus ever renounced, for any reason, his apostleship or return converts to satisfy pagans. Here is the hadith entry for this event.
Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 50, Number 891:
"When Suhail bin Amr came, the Prophet said, "Now the matter has become easy.' Suhail said to the Prophet 'Please conclude a peace treaty with us.' So, the Prophet called the clerk and said to him, 'Write: By the Name of Allah, the most Beneficent, the most Merciful." Suhail said, 'As for "Beneficent," by Allah, I do not know what it means. So write: By Your Name O Allah, as you used to write previously.' The Muslims said, 'By Allah, we will not write except: By the Name of Allah, the most Beneficent, the most Merciful.' The Prophet said, 'Write: By Your Name O Allah.' Then he dictated, 'This is the peace treaty which Muhammad, Allah's Apostle has concluded.' Suhail said, 'By Allah, if we knew that you are Allah's Apostle we would not prevent you from visiting the Kaba, and would not fight with you. So, write: 'Muhammad bin Abdullah.' The Prophet said, 'By Allah! I am Apostle of Allah even if you people do not believe me. Write: Muhammad bin Abdullah.' (Az-Zuhri said, 'The Prophet accepted all those things, as he had already said that he would accept everything they would demand if it respects the ordinance of Allah, (i.e. by letting him and his companions perform 'Umra.)') The Prophet said to Suhail, 'On the condition that you allow us to visit the House (i.e. Ka'ba) so that we may perform Tawaf around it.' Suhail said, 'By Allah, we will not (allow you this year) so as not to give chance to the Arabs to say that we have yielded to you, but we will allow you next year.' SO, THE PROPHET GOT THAT WRITTEN.
Notice too that the pagans in this hadith also invoke the name of Allah. Also notice that they insisted that they would have been fine with Muhammad claiming apostleship IF he had been able to prove it. Also note that Muhammad secured the muslim's entry into Mekka through a peace treaty. This is what is called a self-fulfilling prophecy and holds absoultely no weight as a proof.
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
The Qur'an gave the news that the dead body of Pharaoh would one day be discovered
3. In ancient Egypt, Pharaoh used to torture the Children of Israel. God sent Moses to him with the mission of inviting him to believe in One God and allow the Israelites to leave Egypt with Moses. Pharaoh refused and the struggle between them continued for a long time. However, one night Moses succeeded in marching towards the frontier with his people but Pharaoh, becoming aware of his attempt, set out to follow him. When Moses reached the Red Sea, he touched it with his staff, and a furrow opened across the sea. Pharaoh attempted to follow him, but was engulfed with his legions. While narrating this event, The Qur'an makes a very interesting prediction:
Today We shall preserve your body that you may be a sign to those after you: although most men give no heed to Our signs. (Yunus, 10.92)
The dead body of Pharaoh was later found floating on the Western shores of the Sinai peninsula. The native residents can still show you to this land, which is now known as Jabal Firawn (Hill of Pharaoh). A few miles from this hill is a hot spring called Hammam Firawn (the Bath of Pharaoh).
First of all the koran gives at least two different endings to the story of the Pharoah. And the verse that you erroneously ascribe to his body being perserved is actually a verse stating that Allah would save his life due to his conversion and let him live as a sign to other pagans.
Here it says Pharoah was saved because he converted.
"We took the Children of Israel across the sea: Pharaoh and his hosts followed them in insolence and spite. At length, when overwhelmed with the flood, he said: "I believe that there is no god except Him Whom the Children of Israel believe in: I am of those who submit (to Allah in Islam). (It was said to him): "Ah now!- But a little while before, wast thou in rebellion!- and thou didst mischief (and violence)! This day shall We save thee in the body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! but verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!" (10:90-92).
Here it says Pharoah was drowned with the rest of his forces.
Moses said, "Thou knowest well that these things have been sent down by none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth as eye-opening evidence: and I consider thee indeed, O Pharaoh, to be one doomed to destruction!" So he resolved to remove them from the face of the earth: but We did drown him and all who were with him," (17:102-103).
Secondly if what you suggest above is true, that there is actually a town that is named after the finding of the body, need I remind you that would mean it was an event that happened BEFORE Muhammad showed up on the scene, and therefore is NOT a prophecy?
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
Promise of Victory
4.The Qur'an says:"Allah has promised to those of you who believe, and do good deeds, that He will surely grant them in the land inheritance of power as He granted it to those before them; that He will establish in authority their religion which He has chosen for them. And that He will change their state after fear to one of security and peace. They will worship Me alone and not associate aught with Me." (24:55) And also: "Say to those who deny faith, soon you will be vanquished." (3:12) and "When comes the help of Allah and Victory, and you see the people enter Allah's religion in multitudes . . ." (110:1-2)
The first verse was revealed at a time of the Muslim's weakness, promising the righteous victory, and the second predicting the peoples entering into Islam in crowds, and so it came to pass, after the capture of Mecca, and in the time of the Caliphs Abu Bakr, 'Umar, 'Uthman and 'Ali, who were from the most pious companions of the Prophet, were established by Allah in the land, defeating the Persian and Roman empires, so that Islam was established from Spain to parts of China in a mere twenty years. This, in part, fulfills another prophecy of the Qur'an: "It is He who has sent the Messenger with guidance, and the religion of truth, to make it triumphant over all religions." (9:32) Christianity, Judaism, paganism have never regained any lasting dominance, physically and intellectually since the coming of Islam. The secular philosophies of communism and capitalism are in the process of being dealt death blows. At the present rate of growth Islam will over take Christianity by 2025 in terms of numbers. See also Qur'an 48:18-21 and 1:13, which promise victory.
First of all this isn't a prophecy. This was Muhammad showing confidence that his plan of pillage, murder, rape, extortion, and all around dishonesty had worked to further his goals and that the this formula would continue to be effective. Also if 3:12 were true then why does the west still deny your faith. It has been 1400 years and while the apostasy of the Church has occured, JUST AS JESUS SAID IT WOULD, Islam is far from conquering the world. I would also add the Hitler promised victory over his enemies all throughout WW2 using the same tactics as Muhammad. And I am sure that had he dressed it up as a religion as Muhammad did he would have been even more successful.
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
Tidings of the Last Day
5. A considerable part of the Qur'an is about the events of the Last Day. The Qur�an describes how the world will be destroyed and re-built again and how the dead will be raised, assembled in the Place of Mustering, and, after being judged, will go to either Paradise or Hell. The Qur�an also gives a vivid description of Paradise and Hell and the life in them.
Such traditions exist in many religions, Judaism and Christianity being prime among them. Borrowed prophecies does not a prophet make.
Before I go any further you were asked to show from the koran any prophecies, which you failed to do, NOT the hadith. Since they were written far after the life of Muhammad.
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
Examples of the Prophet�s predictions which exist in books of Tradition (hadeeths)
1 �Umar reports in a narration recorded in Sahih al-Muslim:
�Before the Battle of Badr started, God�s Messenger, upon him be peace and blessings, walked around the battlefield and pointed to some locations, saying, Abu Jahl will be killed here, �Utba here, Shayba here, Walid here, and so on. By God, we found, after the battle, the dead bodies of all those men in the exact places that God�s Messenger had pointed out.�
Irrelevant as these things were recorded LOOOOOONNG after Muhammad's life and were likely made up since they do NOT exist in the koran.
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
While in Makka under great tortures, the Prophet predicted the future victories of Islam
2. Bukhari and Abu Dawud quote Habbab ibn Arat, who said:
Once, during the days of trouble and torture in Makka, I went to God�s Messenger, who was sitting in the shade of the Ka�ba. I was still a slave in the hands of the Makkans then. They inflicted on me severe tortures. Unable to endure those tortures any more, I requested God�s Messenger to pray to God for help and salvation. But he turned towards me and said:
By God, previous communities had to endure more pitiless tortures. Some of them were made to lie in ditches and cut in two with saws but this did not make them forsake their faith. They were skinned alive but they never became weak against the enemy. Surely God will perfect this religion, but you display undue haste. A day will come when a woman will travel alone by herself from San�a to Hadramawt fearing nothing but wild beasts. However, you show impatience.
The funny thing is this shows Muhammad's god's ineptitude. Had Muhammad truly been in contact with the divine he could have at least made the request on behalf of this man but could not and so did not. Muhammad's god was just as powerless then as he is now.
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
Habbab concluded:
By God, what God�s Messenger predicted that day, have all come true. I have personally witnessed it all.
As stated above none of this has any bearing on prophecy in the koran as these hadith were all written a long time after the koran. And it isn't a prophecy if you have to actively achieve the goal. That is called self fulfilling prophecy. Also I would like to point out that according to the hadith the "torture" that Muhammad and his comrades underwent cannot truly be classified as torture given the testimony of the hadith themselves and the fact these individuals were given free reign to travel as they wished and were asked many times to simply not be rude in the conduct of their religion. Since when does a torturer make requests of the ones being tortured?
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
The Messenger predicted �Ammar�s martyrdom in a civil war
3. Bukhari, Muslim and Ahmad ibn Hanbal record:
During the construction of the Prophet�s Mosque in Madina, God�s Messenger, upon him be peace and blessings, told �Ammar:
What a pity O �Ammar, a rebellious group will kill you.
�Ammar was killed in the Battle of Siffin by the supporters of Mu�awiya, who rebelled against Caliph �Ali.
This so-called prophecy is even weaker than the others. It is so vague that so long as someone that Ammar considered an enemy killed him it would be considered fulfilled. Since muslims of this time, just as many today, were constantly engaged in war it isn't that surprising that he would have died at the hands of an enemy.
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
The Prophet foretold that Fatima would join him first of all after his death
4. Before his death, the Messenger called his daughter Fatima to his bedside and informed her that she would be the first among his family to join him after his death. Fatima joined her father, the pride of mankind, six months later.
Again all of these were written much later than the events and so are irrelevant as a means of proving prophecy. Not to mention that Muhammad's followers were so steadfast in their obedience to him they would have willingly obliged to fulfill this prophecy if he had foretold of it's occurence.
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
The Prophet predicted the Mongol invasion
5. The Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, predicted the Mongol invasion, saying:
The Hour will not come before you fight against a people with red faces, small, slant eyes and flat noses. They wear hairy leather boots.
Given that these hadiths were written once the mongols had already become a threat this is merely reflecting current events into the past.
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
The Messenger predicted the caliphate of Abu Bakr and �Umar
6. As related by Hakim, Tirmidhi, Ibn Hanbal and Ibn Maja, by repeatedly declaring, You should, after my death, follow the way of Abu Bakr and �Umar, the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, meant that Abu Bakr and �Umar would succeed him as caliphs. He also predicted that Abu Bakr�s reign would be short, whereas �Umar would remain longer to be able to make many conquests.
This hadith contains no indication of the length of any of the caliph's and this was likely cobbled up as a support against the Sunni claim that these men should have succeeded him as it was written during the caliphate of one of the "rightly guided caliphs".
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
The Prophet predicted the conquest of many important cities
7. According to authentic narrations, the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, gave his community the glad tidings that they would conquer Damascus, Jerusalem, Iraq, Persia, Istanbul (Constantinople) and Cyprus, and that the religion of Islam would reach as far as the remotest corners of the world in the east and west.
Would you care to actually cite these hadith. Not that it matters as they were written after the fact. And plans for conquering are not prophecies. Unless the plans are successful and then they become "prophecy". Furthermore does it not strike you as odd that all of these hadith were written after the fact?
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
The Prophet predicted the forms of government after him
8. The Prophet declared:
This affair began with Prophethood and as a mercy; then it will be mercy and Caliphate; afterwards it will change into a cruel monarchy, and finally into an iniquity and tyranny. He also prophesied: Surely, the Caliphate after me will last thirty years; afterwards it will a cruel monarchy.
Whatever the noble Prophet predicted came true.
But have you not been remarking on how those same caliphates were prophesied by Muhammad? That those were to be his successors? And Islam had already instituted a cruel monarchy with Muhammad as its' head.
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
The Prophet predicted the caliphate and martyrdom of 'Uthman
9. According to an authentic narration, the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, declared:
'Uthman will be killed while reading the Qur'an. God will dress him in a shirt but they will desire to remove it from him.
By this saying, he meant that 'Uthman would become Caliph but his deposition would be sought, and finally he would be martyred while reading the Qur'an. This happened exactly as he predicted.
Same as points cited above. Written after the fact. And Uthman died reading his version of the koran instead of the others that had been made by men Muhammad considered more adept at remembering the koran. Just thought I would throw that fun fact in there for you.
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
The Prophet foretold the future victories of Sa'd
10. As narrated in a authentic Tradition, the noble Prophet of God, upon him be peace and blessings, said to Sa'd ibn Abi Waqqas when the latter was gravely ill:
It is hoped that you will be spared so that some people may benefit through you and some others be harmed through you.
By this, he suggested that Sa'd would be a great commander and make many conquests, and while many peoples would benefit from him by converting to Islam, many others would be harmed through him as a result of the collapse of their states.
Sa'd, just as predicted by the holy Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, took the command of the Muslim armies and destroyed the Persian Sassanid Empire, bringing many peoples within the guidance of Islam.
The Prophet predicted the conquest of Cyprus
11. Once, when the Prophet woke up in the house of Umm Haram, the aunt of Anas ibn Malik, who served the Messenger for ten years in Madina, he smilingly said:
I dreamt that my community would be waging war in the sea sitting on thrones like kings.
Umm Haram asked: "Pray that I too may be with them". He said firmly: You shall be.
All this came true forty years later when Umm Haram accompanied her husband 'Ubada ibn Samit, on the conquest of Cyprus. She died there, and her tomb has since been a visited place.
The Prophet predicted the appearance of Mukhtar and Hajjaj
12. According to an authentic narration, the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, declared:
From the tribe of Thaqif will appear a liar who claims Prophethood and a blood-thirsty tyrant.
By this, he gave tidings of the notorious Mukhtar, who claimed Prophethood, and the criminal Hajjaj, who killed tens of thousands of people.
The Prophet predicted the conquest of Istanbul
13. Again, according to an authentic narration, the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, declared:
Surely, Constantinople (Istanbul) will be conquered (by my community); how blessed the commander who will conquer it, and how blessed his army.
He thus foretold the conquest of Istanbul by Muslims, and indicated the high spiritual rank of Sultan Mehmed, the Conqueror, and the virtuousness of his army. What he foretold took place centuries later.
I will expedite the matter by citing the same points as above. These things were written AFTER they had already occured. If Muhammad had actually made any of these predictions then he certainly would have given them as proof of prophethood when the Mekkans asked him. He did not and so they make NO appearance in the koran. Furthermore if you review them you can see how the Caliph at the time used these later penned traditions to authorize his military conquests. This is nothing more than political propaganda. The USSR and Nazi Germany used similiar tactics to help instill support in their populations.
Quote from: punisher on June 18, 2010, 03:06:52 AM
QuoteSura 4:136 O ye who believe! BELIEVE IN Allah and His Messenger, and the scripture which He hath sent to His Messenger and THE SCRIPTURE WHICH HE SENT TO THOSE BEFORE (HIM). ANY WHO DENIETH Allah, His angels, HIS BOOKS, HIS MESSENGERS, and the Day of Judgment, HATH GONE FAR, FAR ASTRAY.
Brother Peter is Clearly written THE SCRIPTURE WHICH HE SENT TO THOSE BEFORE (HIM)
I already to told the we Believe in Original InjeeL (Bible) which was revealed on Prophet Jesus (PBUH)
That's a lie that you have been taught by the jealous fallen angel Satan, through the 7th century false prophet Mohammed. You reject all of the prophets and witnesses of Jesus Christ, as revealed in the Gospel, to follow Satan through the false prophet Mohammed and his repackaged star and demon worship.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=56.0
As I pointed out before, you reject the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel, to follow Mohammed's lies.
Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=54.0
Quote from: punisher on June 18, 2010, 03:06:52 AM
we believe in original Torah (Old Testament) which was revealed on Moses (PBUH)
That's a lie. You don't even observe the Sabbath, because Mohammed's holy day is Friday.
Quote from: punisher on June 18, 2010, 03:06:52 AM
We believe all previous scripture but not the scripture changed by the people after the Jesus???
and Quran is Final Scripture by Allah
The Quran is nothing but satanic deception, and 7th century created historical fiction.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1483.0
Peddled by a 7th century murdering, prisoner raping, fornicating, thief, as revealed through your own books, as you have been shown.
If you believe you can deny a single one of those characterizations please return to that thread to do so.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=951.0
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
The Prophet mentioned that there would be signs forewarning the approach of the last day.
Many of which he stole from his dealings with Jews and Christians.
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
a. The barefooted bedouins competing in building tall buildings. Today we find in the Arabian Peninsula, the Arabs who used to be impoverished herders of camels and sheep, are competing in building the tallest tower blocks. Two of the latest examples are Kingdom Center in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia and Al Faisaliah Center in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia (see http://skyscraperpage.com/new/kingdomcenter.htm, http://skyscraperpage.com/new/alfaisaliahcenter.htm)
Tall buildings were already apart of the growing populations of the world and news of glorious ones carried far and wide. This is not a prediction but rather an observation.
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
b. The Mosques would be like palaces. This is clearly the case, even though the Prophet ordered simplicity in the houses of Allah, the mosques have become more and more fantastic, with golden domes, marbled floors, lavish carpets and chandeliers. (see http://home.mweb.co.za/ka/kayef/images/masjinabi.jpg)
Again these are self fulfilling prophecies. It is easy to make these simplistic "predictions" come true.
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
c. Disappearance of trustworthiness, so much so that one would only be able to say: "I know a trustworthy person in such-and-such town."
Well with Islam making it impossible to trust in the areas it is influential this isn't surprising. But an increase in dishonesty is foretold in the Bible. So Muhammad was beat to this one by some six hundred years.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
d. The increase in killing, so that the one who kills does not know why he killed, and the one killed does not know why he was killed. I was recently sent an article from the Washington Post about the rise of gang warfare. Part of the initiation ceremony was for a new gang member(some times as young as eleven) to shoot someone. The second highest cause of death from fifteen to thirty five in the US are gun related. The massacre of civilians in the Vietnam War by American troops who had little idea why they were there, and the increase of such conflicts, is further illustration of the fulfillment of this prophecy. As are the rise of insane mass murders, of children killing children, such as Jamie Bulger.
Again with murder being prescribed in Islam this should come as no surprise to someone living in an Islamic controlled area, but much more to the point this again is something that the Bible foretold before Muhammad uttered his first lie.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
What a vivid description of the legacy that Muhammad left behind. Being cheif among them.
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
e. The increase of the use of riba (usury/interest) so that no one will able to escape being tainted by it. This clearly the state of the world economy today.
That was a problem already persistent then and had been for some time among the Jews. Muhammad only concerned himself with interest laws because he thought it would appease the Jews and convince them of his prophethood. It didn't but he was still stuck with the interest laws. However it did not keep him from charging a hefty 20% on all ill gotten goods.
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
f. The enemies of the Muslims dividing the Muslim's wealth and lands between them, the Muslims abandoning jihad, and concerning themselves only with the worldly matters. We have already mentioned this.
Then are YOU ready to conduct jihad? Are you the first of many muslims up here to admit it is nothing more than military conquest? And undoubtedly Muhammad was aware that at some point people would strike back at his pervasive religion.
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
g. The increase of literacy.
Just not Muhammad's. And literacy was already on the rise due to the need for transcontinental business transactions. And this again was already foretold in the Bible.
Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
h. The decrease of religious knowledge due to the disappearance of scholars.
Correct me if I am wrong but it would seem the world abounds with such scholars. Especially in the Muslim world. So is this then false?
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
i. The increase of musical instruments, and the Muslims making it lawful even though the Prophet has forbidden them.
Purely subjective given one's idea of music. And there is no way to know this for sure as most of the instruments we currently have already existed at the time of Muhammad and many we no longer have existed before him.
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
j. The increase of sexual promiscuity, and new diseases that people had not herd of before spreading amongst them as a consequence of that. This is clear, with the arrival of AIDS, and other previously unheard of viruses.
Given Muhammad's sanction of rape, polygamy, and concubines would this surprise you? Besides the Bible already condemned such immoral sexual conduct and warned of punishment for such unrepented sin.
1Cr 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
1Cr 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
k. Appearance of Dajjals (liars), each claiming to be a Messenger of Allah, while Muhammad is the last messenger. There are numerous examples of this, starting with Musailima, who arose in the time of the Prophet, just before his death, to more modern liars such as Elija Muhammad, founder of the Black American racist movement "The Nation of Islam", and India's pretender Gulam Ahmed of Qadian.
Jesus already warned us of false prophets including Muhammad.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if [it were] possible, even the elect.
Luk 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Muhammad is among a very long list of false prophets. He taught and did the exact opposite of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
l. Nakedness of women while still being dressed and people copulating like donkeys in public. Obviously a direct reference to soft and hard-core pornography, which has become a dark stain on our society in recent times.
Not as obvious as you state given that such lewdness has been a staple of civilization since ancient times. The appeal of sexual promiscuity is so alluring that Muhammad granted it as permissible to muslim men by allowing him numerous wives, concubines, etc. Then to cap it off he promised them eternity in a heaven filled with such debauchary.
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
m. The drinking of wine becoming common, and the Muslims making it lawful by calling it another name.
Well why wouldn't they given that Muhammad promised plenty of it in heaven? Furthermore this is yet another case like all of the above of reading into history what was occuring in the present.
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
n. Shouting in the mosques and lack of unity.
I wouldn't know about that personally but if you look at many of the youtube videos that show such behaviour it is usually anti-Jewish, anti-Christian, anti-Israel, anti-american rhetoric they are shouting. Supported no less than by verses recited by Muhammad.
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
o. The worst and most ignorant will become leaders and they will be oppressors. Bill Clinton, saddam Hussain and majority of worlds Leaders are prime examples.
Purely subjective. Besides Muhammad had already fulfilled that one the moment he became a leader. Bad leaders are also staples all throughout history.
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
p. A man will obey his wife and disobey his mother, and treat his friends kindly and shun his father.
Poor renditions of Biblical truths.
Mar 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
Mar 13:11 But when they shall lead [you], and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
Mar 13:12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against [their] parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
Mar 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
q. Men will wear silk and gold, and the making of it lawful by the Muslims even though the Prophet had forbidden it for the men of his 'Ummah (nation).
Given the general greed that is engrafted in the religion of Islam it should not come as a surprise that after Muhammad died that his followers would continue to grow in their greed. These like most of the ones on this list though are poor signs and purely subjective or impossible to observe. Jesus gave specific signs of His return. For instance, the Jews regaining Israel and Jerusalem, increase in earthquakes, famine, wars, and a great apostasy of the faith He instituted. Those are observable signs and can be quantified.
Quote from: punisher on June 17, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
r. People will abandon the religion for a small worldly gain, and keeping to the religion will be like holding two hot coals.
Once conquest stopped and the wealth stopped flowing it is natural for natural minded men to return to their lusts.
Jhn 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
History shows that the minute Islamic expansion was halted a stagnation began to creep in to the Caliphates. That is the reason that technology had ceased as an enterprise for so long. All the glory that Islam heeps to itself, medicine, algebra, philosophy, etc. were stolen concepts from subjugated people. Islam itself supresses genuine inquiry and as a result the moment they were unable to steal what they needed to progress they regressed. That is the issue they face today. If it had not been for western nations showing them how to drill those oil fields in the middle east they would have remained untapped to this day.
QuoteSuch traditions exist in many religions, Judaism and Christianity being prime among them. Borrowed prophecies does not a prophet make.
Before I go any further you were asked to show from the koran any prophecies, which you failed to do, NOT the hadith. Since they were written far after the life of Muhammad
what is Judaism and Christianity,
Believe me they never existed on Earth, Infact Moses was True Muslim, and Jesus was true muslim,
it's the people after the Jesus who changed the teaching of Jesus and make a new religion Christianity .
Prophecies in Quran
In The Quran itself, within some of its chapters, it foretells events in the future that have come true; these are more commonly known as "prophecies�.
It tells the story of the Exodus from Egypt, in which Moses and the Hebrews enslaved to the Pharaoh of the time escape -
�We delivered the Children of Israel across the sea. Pharaoh and his troops pursued them, aggressively and sinfully. When drowning became a reality for him, he said, �I believe there is no god except in the One whom the Children of Israel have believed; I am a submitter. Too late! For you have rebelled already, and chose to be a transgressor. Today, we will preserve your body, to set you up as a lesson for future generations. Verily, many among mankind are totally oblivious to our signs.� (Holy Quran, from 10:90 to 10:92)
As you can see from the above passage, The Quran prophesises that the body of the Pharaoh will be preserved for future generations.
This was proved correct when the mummy of Merneptah (the Pharaoh of the Exodus) was discovered well preserved in 1898, and it can be seen on display in the Royal Mummies Room of the Egyptian Museum, Cairo.
Even though, this event occurred over 3000 years ago (more than 1600 years before Muhammad) according to both archaeological and Biblical data, the author of The Quran predicted that the body of the Pharaoh would be preserved as a sign for future generations, which is nowhere to be found in the Biblical version.
---------------------------------------------------------------
A more general prophecy is given in Chapter 41 about God�s promise to show the unbelievers that The Quran is the word of God �
�We will show them our proofs in the horizons, and within themselves, until they realise that this is the truth. Is your Lord not sufficient as a witness of all things?� (The Quran, 41:53)
Today, scientific discoveries in every field are giving more and more evidence to the truth of this statement, as I have shown previously. See http://www.islamawareness.net/Science/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------The author of The Quran also prophesised that The Quran itself would remain intact (unaltered) through time �
�Absolutely, we have revealed the reminder (The Quran), and, absolutely, we will preserve it.� (The Quran, 15:9)
- since its revelation more than 1400 years ago, the original Quran is still fully preserved and intact as it was when it was first revealed (as I have discussed in the Introduction).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
�Why do they not study The Quran carefully? If it were from other than God, they would have found in it numerous contradictions.� (The Quran, 4:82)
- The Quran deals with hundreds of issues, and reiterates many stories of the past nations. Yet, no one can show any incongruity or contradictions among the more than 6000 verses of The Quran. Many have tried but all of their apparent contradictions stem from misinterpreting the original Arabic and thus producing two or more statements, which seem to conflict with each other, when in truth, this is not the case.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some prophecies occurred during the lifetime of Muhammad, such as the following references �
�Surely, He Who ordained The Quran for thee, will bring thee home again.� (The Quran, 28:85)
- this verse was revealed when Muhammad�s situation was dire, due to the hostility from the people of Mecca (which was his home). The hostility was due to the chiefs/leaders of the time, who rejected his message and thus rejected him and his followers. It was a hopeless situation, most of his followers had already migrated to Madinah (a nearby city), now it was his turn. He migrated as a refugee and then returned several years later as a conqueror, fulfilling yet another prophecy.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Prophecy of Pagan Defeat
The Quran predicted the defeat of unbelievers in Mecca while Prophet Muhammad and his followers were still being persecuted by them:
�Or do they (the Meccan disbelievers) say: �We are a great multitude, and we shall be victorious?� Their multitude will be defeated, , and they shall turn their backs [in flight]!� (Quran 54:45)
The prophecy was revealed in Mecca, but was fulfilled at the Battle of Badr, two years after the Prophet�s migration to the city of Medina.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
�Condemned are the works of Abu Lahab, and he is condemned. His money and whatever he has accomplished will never help him. He has incurred the blazing Hell.� (The Quran, 111:1 to 111:3)
Abu Lahab was the most bitter enemy of Muhammad, and opposed the establishment of Islam to the utmost of his power. In this verse it explicitly states that Abu Lahab, would be condemned to Hell (because he would never accept Islam and thus die a disbeliever).
Even after 11 years after this Quranic revelation, Abu Lahab never accepted Islam and thus died a disbeliever. In view of the fact that he was Muhammad�s bitterest enemy, logic and experience suggest that it is unwise to make such a declaration, for Abu Lahab could have very easily disproved The Quran by pretending to believe. Why did Abu Lahab waste this golden opportunity? What made Muhammad so certain that even in ten years Abu Lahab would not exploit this tempting opportunity? At any rate past experience does not include knowledge of the future.
Once again, consider how many people could predict future events, some of which are quite remarkable, without producing an error? In my opinion, even if you disregard every prophecy and consider the Pharaoh prophecy alone, the probability of predicting this event (taking into account the time span involved) would be low.
Overall, taking into account all of the above prophecies, the probability of someone achieving the above feat (using a safe estimate) would be about �1 in 1 million� (which means that 6000 people in the world today could accomplish this task theoretically). Once again, if you think my value is too high, please choose your own realistic probability and write it down.
Conclusion for Prophecies Within The Quran, probability = �
1 in 1 million�-----------------------------------------------------------------
QuoteThat's a lie that you have been taught by the jealous fallen angel Satan, through the 7th century false prophet Mohammed. You reject all of the prophets and witnesses of Jesus Christ, as revealed in the Gospel, to follow Satan through the false prophet Mohammed and his repackaged star and demon worship.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=56.0
As I pointed out before, you reject the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel, to follow Mohammed's lies.
Do u believe Satan as Angel how shameful, he is not Angel, Angel don't disobey Allah,
49 Questions About Christianity 1.If Jesus's mission was to the lost sheep of
Israel,why was it confined to Palestine where only
two of the original tribes had settled? Did that
mean that Jesus had failed in his mission?
2.Why should Jesus specifically forbid, on the one
hand, preaching the Gospel to the Gentiles Matthew
7:6,15:24,26) and yet on the other, tell the
disciples to teach all the nations, baptizing them
in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy
Ghost? (Matthew 28:19)
3.Why did Jesus prohibit the Gospel from being preached
to the Gentiles during his ministry (Matthew 10:5,
7:6,15:24-26) but after his 'resurrection' tell them
to preach the Gospel to the whole world? (Mark
16:15)
If Jesus really had made the latter statement, why
was there such a fierce debate within the early
Church (and particularly between Peter and Paul) as
to whether the Gospel should be preached to the
Gentiles? (Acts 15:6-30)
4.Out of all the signs that Jesus could have given
about himself, he chose to give the sign of Jonah:
This generation is an evil generation; it seeks a
sign but no sign shall be given to it except the
sign of Jonah. (Luke 11:29, Matthew 12:39, Matthew
16) Jonah was swallowed alive by a whale and
remained in its belly alive for three days. For
Jesus to have properly fulfilled the prophecy, he
would need to enter the tomb alive and come out
alive. Why should Jesus give this, of all signs, if
he was to die and be resurrected?
5.If Jesus's message was for the whole of mankind,
why did he forbid his disciples to preach to the
Gentiles? (Matthew 10:5-6)
6.When Jesus was asked what the only way was to true
salvation,he replied: keep the Commandments (Matthew
19:17).
The first of the Commandments was to believe in the
Oneness of God (Exodus 20:3). Why did Jesus answer
so if he believed in and was part of the Trinity?
Why did he not refer to the Father, the Son, and the
Holy Ghost?
7.Jesus said that he had not come to change the Law of
Moses (Matthew 5:17). The Law of Moses teaches that
there is one God (Exodus 20:3). If Jesus was
introducing the concept of Trinity, why did he not
say that he was changing the Law of Moses or
introducing a different
8.Jesus prophesied that men of his generation would not
pass away without witnessing his second coming and
the falling of stars (Mark 9:1, 13:30). Why was this
prophecy unfulfilled? Why was it that Jesus did not
return within the lifetime of his generation?
9.Why did Jesus forbid the disciples from calling
people fools yet called the Jewish leaders with
names like vipers and children of adultery? Is it
conceivable that a Divine Being would behave in this
way?
10.According to Luke, when the Jews tried Jesus they
asked him Are you the son of God? Jesus replied you
say that I am (Luke 22:70) which could mean: you say
that I am but I do not. If his divinity was
something he came to tell the world, why did he not
plainly say yes instead of couching his answer in
ambiguous terms?
11.In the Old Testament, the term Son of God was
applied to David (Psalms 89:27), the nation of
Israel (Exodus 4:22), the children of Israel
(Psalms 82:6), and Solomon (1 Chronicles 22:10).
Jesus also used it for the peacemakers (Matthew
5:9). If Jesus was referring to himself as the Son
of God in the literal sense, why did he not make it
clear that he was differentiating between a
symbolic reference and a literal meaning of the
term?
12.Jesus was the Messiah, the fulfillment of Old
Testament prophecies. He frequently made reference
to himself as the suffering servant foretold in the
Book of Isaiah (Matthew 8:17 & Isaiah 53:4; Luke
2:30 & Isaiah 52:10; Luke 22:37 & Isaiah 53:12). The
Messiah of the Old Testament was, however, promised
by God that he would not be killed (Psalms 34:19,
Isaiah 53:10). How was it, therefore, that the Jews
had succeeded in killing the Messiah if Jesus died
on the cross?
13.If Jesus knew that Judas was going to betray him,
why did he continue to permit him as a disciple? Why
did he not tell the other disciples so that Judas
could be excluded from his closest circle of
followers?
14.If Jesus knew that one of his disciples would betray
him, why should he say that all twelve disciples
would sit upon twelve thrones? (Matthew 19:28)
15.If Jesus knew that he was to die on the cross, why
did he spend all night praying in the Garden of
Gethsemane seeking deliverance: Father if it is
possible may this cup be taken from me? (Matthew
26:39)
16.Jesus had taught that man's prayers are answered
the Garden of Gethsemane? What effect would this
incident have on the faith of his disciples and
followers to see that a prayer had not been answered
contrary to what Jesus had taught?
17.If Jesus believed that his prayer in the Garden of
Gethsemane would not be heard, why did he tell his
disciples earlier that prayers are answered?: Would
any of you who are fathers give your son a stone
when he asked for bread (Matthew 7:9-10) which means
that God hears the prayers of man more than a
father answers the wishes of his children and Ask
and it will be given to you; seek and you will find;
knock and it will be openedtoyou. And whatever you
ask in your prayers, you will receive, if you have
faith. (Matthew 21:22; John 11:41,42)
18.If Jesus's prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane was
not to be heard, why was it something that he wanted
the disciples to witness? If the prayer was not to
be heard, what useful purpose does this story serve?
19.Why should Matthew, Mark and Luke all report
(Matthew 26:39, Mark 14:36, Luke 22:42) that Jesus
asked for the cup of suffering to be passed if
possible yet John (John 18:11) reports that Jesus
hastened for the crucifixion saying shall I not
drink the cup the Father hath given me?
20.Why did Pontius Pilate just simply ignore his wife's
plea to have nothing to do with Jesus on account of
her bad dream? (Matthew 27:19) If the very mission
of Jesus was to suffer death, why should God
Almighty show a dream to Pilate's wife which would
cause her to try and persuade her husband to release
Jesus? Would not that appear to counter God's own
plan?
21.If Pilate really wanted Jesus to die on the cross,
why would he fix the crucifixion on a Friday evening
knowing that the Jews would have to take him down
before Sabbath and that such a little time on the
cross was insufficient for him to die?
22.If Jesus knew all along that he was destined to be
crucified to death (indeed if that was his purpose
in life), why did he exclaim on the cross Eli, Eli
Lama Sabachthani meaning my God my God why hast thou
forsaken me? (Matthew 27:46)
23.If Jesus was about to die, how was he able to say in
a clear loud and audible voice that he was thirsty?
(John 19:28)
Sabachthani (Matthew 27:46) reported in their
original Aramaic form? Could it be that Jesus's
helpless cry left such a vivid impression of a man
seemingly bereft of hope that anyone who heard them
would remember the exact words?
25.Vinegar is often considered to have a stimulating
effect,rather similar to smelling salts. Why, in
Jesus's case, did it suddenly lead to his death?
(John 19:29,
26.How could an onlooker tell the difference between a
man on the cross who had died and a man who had
fainted (Mark 15:39) particularly when it is
reported that it was dark at that time? (Mark 15:33,
Matthew 27:45, Luke 23:44)
27.If Jesus was dead when he was removed from the
cross, why did his body release blood and water,
since blood does not flow at all from a dead body?
(John 19:34)
28.Why did Jesus die before the other two who were
crucified with him even though the legs of the other
two were broken to hasten death? (John 19:32)
29.It is reported that dead saints came out of their
graves and made themselves known to many (Matthew
27:52). When the Jews saw this, why did they not
immediately profess faith in Jesus? Where did these
saints go? Who did they see? Why is there no account
of this story elsewhere other than in Matthew's
Gospel?
30.If the above story of saints rising from the dead is
not based on an actual historical event, what other
statements there in the Gospels which are not baon
actual historical facts?
31.Jesus said that the killing of prophets ended with
the killing of Zacharias (Matthew 23:35-36). How was
it, therefore, that the Jews had succeeded in
killing another prophet?
32.Crucifixion was meant to be an accursed death
(Deuteronomy 21:23). If Jesus was crucified, did
that mean he also suffered an accursed death?
33.Why was it that a Roman soldier was so readily
prepared to allow Joseph (a subjected citizen) to
take down Jesus's body from the cross without
checking and without Joseph having any apparent
lawful authority?
34.Why is there is no direct account by Joseph of
Arimathea or Nicodemus that Jesus was dead when he
was account would have settled the matter beyond
dispute?
35.Why should Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus take so
much trouble to recover the body of Jesus when this
would have been the duty of the nearest relative?
36.Why did Pilate agree to release the 'body' to Joseph
of Arimathea (a known Jew and follower of Jesus) if
he was not sympathetic to Jesus?
37.Crucifixion was a slow death. It usually lasted
several days. Death followed from exhaustion,
inability to respire property as a result of being
in an upright position or attacks by wild animals.
Why did Jesus, who was a fit and healthy man used to
walking the countryside for long distances, die so
quickly in only a matter of a few hours?
38.If Jesus really was expected to die in such a short
time, why did Pilate express surprise at Jesus's
death? (Mark 15:42-44)
39.Why would the Jews bribe the soldiers to say that
Jesus's disciples had stolen the corpse whilst they
(the soldiers) were asleep? If the soldiers had
truly related this story, they might have been asked
how they knew that the disciples had stolen the
corpse if they were asleep?
40.Why did the Jews not go and check the tomb
themselves? They had put much effort into getting
Jesus crucified. A friend of Jesus had been allowed
to take the body away. Why did they not visit the
tomb before Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of
Jesus did?
41.Why did Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus not stay
with Jesus in the tomb after taking down his body
from the cross to witness the resurrection? Jesus
had apparently told his followers that he would die
and rise after three days. (Matthew 16:21, 17:23,
20:17-19) This report had even reached the Jews
(Matthew 27:63). Why did not Joseph and Nicodemus
remain with Jesus to witness the event?
42.Did the Jews really believe that Jesus had died? If
so, why did they ask the Romans for a guard to be
placed outside the sepulcher? Matthew says the Jews
explained this by saying that Jesus's disciples
could spread false rumors about him rising from the
dead. However, if the Jews really believed this to
be the reason for the request, why could they not
have asked the disciples to produce the risen Christ
as proof? If the disciples had then done so, the
Jews could then presumably rearrest Jesus.
43.Why were the Roman authorities so disinterested
about the apparent removal of the body if this is
what the Jews were claiming?
44.Why was the stone moved from the tomb (Matthew28:2)
if it was a supernatural rising?
45.When Mary Magdalene and Mary the Mother of Jesus saw
him, he was wearing gardener's clothing (John
20:15). Where did Jesus get these clothes from? His
own clothes had been taken by the soldiers who had
divided them drawing lots (John 19:23). It was not
through Joseph of Arimathea or Nicodemus because
they are only reported of having taken in herbs,
aloes and a linen shroud (John 19:39, 40). What was
the significance of Jesus wearing gardener's
clothing (as opposed to normal clothing)? Was it
meant to be a disguise? If so, for what purpose?
46.Why were the women who visited the tomb terrified if
Jesus was dead (Mark 16:8)? What did they have to be
terrified of if the Jews had succeeded in killing
Jesus?
47.If Jesus could conquer death and rise from thedead,
why did he fear seeing the Jews afterthe
crucifixion? particularly as death had no more power
over him? (Romans 6:9)
48.Why did Jesus disguise himself afterthe
resurrection and appear only to the disciples?
Surely, this was the great manifestation of his
power and the fulfillment of the purpose of his
creation. What was the purpose in keeping it all a
secret now?
49.If Jesus was the risen Christ, why did he meet his
disciples behind closed doors and not in the open as
he used to? (John 20:19)