If God decided to manifest Himself in the flesh of a human being - as a person - and buy the house next door to you and move in, and become your neighbor, and appear to you just like any other neighbor, could He?
If He chose to do the very same thing, next door to a Chinese person, an Indian, and a European, all at the same time that He was living next door to you, and carry on 4 simultaneous conversations with the 4 of you, in 4 different languages all at the same time, could He?
If God wanted to do that, would God be able to do that?
[edit addition on 1-23-2015: God not only manifest Himself as a man in the person of Jesus Christ, but God also manifest Himself as a man to Abraham. Even took Abraham up on his offer to fetch water to wash His feet with as well as Abraham's offer of food:
Genesis 18:1 And the LORD {Yehovah} appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day.....
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/god_manifest_flesh.htm [end edit]
Quote from: Peter on October 26, 2010, 03:16:00 PM
Mujaheed (I'll remove this personalization after you reply), If God decided that he wanted to create a human being, in order for Him to personally dwell on the earth in the flesh of that human being - as that person - and then buy the house next door to you and move in, and become your neighbor, and appear to you just like any other neighbor, could He?
If He chose to do the very same thing, next door to a Chinese person, an Indian, and a European, all at the same time that He was living next door to you, and carry on 4 simultaneous conversations with the 4 of you, in 4 different languages, could He?
If God wanted to do that, would God be able to do that?
NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR GOD right? so why become a man to talk to you, would you know that it is GOD talking to you? IF GOD TELLS YOU HE IS GOD then there is absolutely no need for faith or belief as we would now know there is a god like we know there is a sun.
The very notion of faith and trust in god disappears immediately. What would be left? absolute obedience, you would have absolutely no excuse to break a single law of god, only Satan would say after that that there is no more laws. THE LAWS GIVE YOU A STANDARD, does it not?
THE COMMAND OF GOD LIVES INSIDE OF YOU ALREADY, THE RUH (spirit is a mistranslation/ or bad one) IS THE COMAND OF GOD. We choose to nurture or neglect that command by folowing or rejecting the commands of THE GOD.
everything comes into existence through "be and it is done" (a very crude translation from the arabic) you call it the word and "the word was made flesh", in real term it makes more sense if it is "the word was made to dwell in the flesh", that is why THE GOD sent the scripture to guide that very Ruh (SPIRIT) as it will return one day to its creator.
THE FIRST COMMAND FOR THE RUH IS THE RECOGNITION OF THE CREATOR. HEAR YE O ISRAEL YOUR LORD GOD IS ONE.
It is absurd to think that THE GOD needs to inhabit? beget ? become a man? (would that make the man a god or does it make god a man, either way it is a very roman/greek pagan pholosophy)
It is an absurdity to suggest that GOD came to earth to live next door to man when the THE GOD already has power over all things and why interfere with your freewill? that means THE GOD is unfair! why select who to engage with and who not to, it would be every human beings right to meet the man-god would it not?
I would feel very cheated if God appears before a select few and offer them his love and offers me a ghost, bad deal favoring whores and sinners and adulterers and appearing before your own killers, and not me a believer?
I don't want the SPIRIT PART for ALL SPIRITS ARE NOT OF GOD THE BIBLE SAYS!!!
YOU NOW HAVE A MAJOR DILEMA. don't you Peter
Quote from: Peter on October 26, 2010, 03:16:00 PM
NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR GOD right?
I agree.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 26, 2010, 05:05:05 PM
It is absurd to think that THE GOD needs to inhabit?
No it is absurd for a man to think that God
NEEDS anything.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 26, 2010, 05:05:05 PMbeget ? become a man? (would that make the man a god or does it make god a man, either way it is a very roman/greek pagan pholosophy)
If God chose to manifest Himself as your next door neighbor, would that make Him any less God?
Quote from: Peter on October 26, 2010, 05:15:53 PM
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 26, 2010, 05:05:05 PM
It is absurd to think that THE GOD needs to inhabit?
No it is absurd for a man to think that God NEEDS anything.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 26, 2010, 05:05:05 PMbeget ? become a man? (would that make the man a god or does it make god a man, either way it is a very roman/greek pagan pholosophy)
If God chose to manifest Himself as your next door neighbor, would that make Him any less God?
More importantly to me is would he tell me he is god?
If God, in the person of your next door neighbor, simply told you that He was God, do you think you would believe Him?
Quote from: Peter on October 26, 2010, 05:21:37 PM
If God, as your next door neighbor, simply told you He was God, do you think you would believe Him?
Definitely not, NO MAN HATH SEEN GOD....and besides that I have been warned that the GOD OF THIS WORLD IS SATAN.
Matthew 4:8-9
The devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and
sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee.
Luke 4:5-7
And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee.
John 12:31
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
John 14:30
Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh.
John 16:11
Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
2 Corinthians 4:4
The god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not.AND I DONT WANT TO CHASTISED OR HURT
Hebrews
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. (12:6)
"Whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth."
Do bad things happen to good people?
12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. (12:8)
"If ye be without chastisement ... then are ye bastards."
God always hurts the ones he loves. And if God doesn't hurt you, you are a bastard, not a son.12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 26, 2010, 06:06:15 PM
Quote from: Peter on October 26, 2010, 05:21:37 PM
If God, as your next door neighbor, simply told you He was God, do you think you would believe Him?
Definitely not, NO MAN HATH SEEN GOD....
That's the whole point. You would be seeing God
manifest, or revealed, through the person of your next door neighbor. Some Jews reacted just the same way you would have.
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him:
Quote from: Peter on October 26, 2010, 06:37:47 PM
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 26, 2010, 06:06:15 PM
Quote from: Peter on October 26, 2010, 05:21:37 PM
If God, as your next door neighbor, simply told you He was God, do you think you would believe Him?
Definitely not, NO MAN HATH SEEN GOD....
That's the whole point. You would be seeing God manifest, or revealed, through the person of your next door neighbor. Some Jews reacted just the same way you would have.
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I
am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him:
I WOULD NOT STONE HIM, THE JEW KILLS EVERYONE, SO ITS NOT REALLY GOD IS IT IF IT IS ONLY MANIFESTATION (DONT YOU MEAN CREATION OF GOD?) THE NOTION IS ABSURD AND YOU KNOW IT.
SO WHAT ARE YOU SAYING, ITS NOT GOD IN THE REAL SENSE OF THE WORD, ITS A MANIFESTATION, IN THAT CASE WE ARE ALL LIKE JESUS ACCORDING TO YOU WE ALL HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT IN US, SO WHATS THE DIFFERENCE? WE ARE ALL GODS? HOW ARROGANT CAN YOU BE!!
CAN GOD NOT SEE ME FROM HEAVEN< CAN GOD NOT HEAR ME< CAN GOD NOT COMMUNICATE WITH ME FROM HEAVEN AND DOES GOD NOT KNOW EXACTLY HOW I FEEL, DID GOD NOT SEND THOUSANDS OF PROPHETS WITH HIS WORD, SO WHY YOUR ABSURD NEED FOR A MANIFESTATION, LIKE A SIGN OR A PROOF OF GODS EXISTENCE
YOU WOULD DESTROY FAITH AND BELIEF AND EVERYTHING THAT IS NEEDED BY A HUMAN BEING FOR HIS OWN SALVATION,
THERE WOULD BE NO BELIEF, IF ONE KNOWS THERE IS A GOD LIKE YOU KNOW THERE IS A SUN, YOU SEE IT OR THE VERY PROOF OF IT, THEN BELIEF IS NULLIFIED. THEN ONLY THE LAW WOULD BE LEFT.
1. How could Jesus proclaim in the 1st century, that He was before Abraham?
2. Why did those Jews want to stone Him for His proclamation?
Quote from: Peter on October 26, 2010, 07:42:07 PM
1. How could Jesus proclaim in the 1st century, that He was before Abraham?
2. Why did those Jews want to stone Him for His proclamation?
yes where does he make and unambiguous statement? tell me what does I AM mean?
DOES IT MEAN :I EXISTED or does it mean I am GOD
DID JEWISH SCRIBES NOT LEAVE OUT THE NAME OF GOD AS IT COULD NOT BE PRONOUNCE BY COMMON FOLK?
So "I AM" means what?
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 27, 2010, 03:31:48 AM
Quote from: Peter on October 26, 2010, 07:42:07 PM
1. How could Jesus proclaim in the 1st century, that He was before Abraham?
2. Why did those Jews want to stone Him for His proclamation?
yes where does he make and unambiguous statement? tell me what does I AM mean?
DOES IT MEAN :I EXISTED or does it mean I am GOD
DID JEWISH SCRIBES NOT LEAVE OUT THE NAME OF GOD AS IT COULD NOT BE PRONOUNCE BY COMMON FOLK?
So "I AM" means what?
"I AM" is God's name.
Exd 3:13 ¶ And Moses said unto God, Behold, [when] I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me,
What [is] his name? what shall I say unto them?
Exd 3:14 And God said unto Moses,
I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel,
I AM hath sent me unto you. Exd 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you:
this [is] my name for ever, and this [is] my memorial unto all generations. Unfortunately the Jews were so afraid of blaspheming God's name by uttering it with their human tongues they replaced His name with YHWH and later it was rendered LORD. Anytime you see LORD in all caps like that in the Bible it is a place marker for Yahweh or IAMTHATIAM. God, El, Elohym are words for WHAT God is. Yahweh is the name of God or WHO HE is.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 27, 2010, 03:31:48 AM
Quote from: Peter on October 26, 2010, 07:42:07 PM
1. How could Jesus proclaim in the 1st century, that He was before Abraham?
2. Why did those Jews want to stone Him for His proclamation?
yes where does he make and unambiguous statement? tell me what does I AM mean?
DOES IT MEAN :I EXISTED or does it mean I am GOD
DID JEWISH SCRIBES NOT LEAVE OUT THE NAME OF GOD AS IT COULD NOT BE PRONOUNCE BY COMMON FOLK?
So "I AM" means what?
No more obfuscating Mujaheed please answer directly and succinctly to that which you quote. Stay on topic.
1. How could Jesus proclaim in the 1st century, that He was before Abraham?
2. Why did those Jews want to stone Him for His proclamation?
Quote from: Peter on October 27, 2010, 08:40:58 AM
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 27, 2010, 03:31:48 AM
Quote from: Peter on October 26, 2010, 07:42:07 PM
1. How could Jesus proclaim in the 1st century, that He was before Abraham?
2. Why did those Jews want to stone Him for His proclamation?
yes where does he make and unambiguous statement? tell me what does I AM mean?
DOES IT MEAN :I EXISTED or does it mean I am GOD
DID JEWISH SCRIBES NOT LEAVE OUT THE NAME OF GOD AS IT COULD NOT BE PRONOUNCE BY COMMON FOLK?
So "I AM" means what?
No more obfuscating Mujaheed please answer directly and succinctly to that which you quote. Stay on topic.
1. How could Jesus proclaim in the 1st century, that He was before Abraham?
2. Why did those Jews want to stone Him for His proclamation?
I AM ASKING YOU WHAT IT MEANS,
DOES IT MEAN I AM? OR DOES IT MEAN GOD?
MY Understanding is that I AM am standing before Abraham, or by Abraham's words that GOD IS ONE! the line does not say I WAS BORN OR I EXISTED BEFORE ABRAHAM, DOES IT.
WHAT DOES before everything I AM WHAT I AM MEAN? THAT I EXISTED BFORE EVRYTHING ELSE OR THAT it could mean in front of ABRAHAM I exist as a Prophet like him. I am in front of (before) Abraham, OR I SWEAR BY ABRAHAM I AM A PROPHET OF GOD, I did not get to finish my sentence as you started to misunderstand and stone me?
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 27, 2010, 09:04:57 AM
Quote from: Peter on October 27, 2010, 08:40:58 AM
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 27, 2010, 03:31:48 AM
Quote from: Peter on October 26, 2010, 07:42:07 PM
1. How could Jesus proclaim in the 1st century, that He was before Abraham?
2. Why did those Jews want to stone Him for His proclamation?
yes where does he make and unambiguous statement? tell me what does I AM mean?
DOES IT MEAN :I EXISTED or does it mean I am GOD
DID JEWISH SCRIBES NOT LEAVE OUT THE NAME OF GOD AS IT COULD NOT BE PRONOUNCE BY COMMON FOLK?
So "I AM" means what?
No more obfuscating Mujaheed please answer directly and succinctly to that which you quote. Stay on topic.
1. How could Jesus proclaim in the 1st century, that He was before Abraham?
2. Why did those Jews want to stone Him for His proclamation?
I AM ASKING YOU WHAT IT MEANS,
DOES IT MEAN I AM? OR DOES IT MEAN GOD?
MY Understanding is that I AM am standing before Abraham, or by Abraham's words that GOD IS ONE! the line does not say I WAS BORN OR I EXISTED BEFORE ABRAHAM, DOES IT.
WHAT DOES before everything I AM WHAT I AM MEAN? THAT I EXISTED BFORE EVRYTHING ELSE OR THAT it could mean in front of ABRAHAM I exist as a Prophet like him. I am in front of (before) Abraham, OR I SWEAR BY ABRAHAM I AM A PROPHET OF GOD, I did not get to finish my sentence as you started to misunderstand and stone me?
"I AM" implies self-existence and sustanance. That He exists of His own will. Not created. More importantly though to the Jews refering to yourself as "I AM" would be an overt claim to being the One True Living God. Since the Pharisees were asking how Jesus knew things about Abraham they did not Jesus told them because He existed before Abraham and by using that specific name claimed to be the Creator.
"I AM" implies self-existence and sustanance. That He exists of His own will. Not created. More importantly though to the Jews refering to yourself as "I AM" would be an overt claim to being the One True Living God. Since the Pharisees were asking how Jesus knew things about Abraham they did not Jesus told them because He existed before Abraham and by using that specific name claimed to be the Creator.
[/quote]
SO ACCORDING TO YOU JESUS IS GOD? and he did not need any sustenance (he never ate food) he brought himself into the world by his own accord with no Mother or Spirit? Was not sustained in the womb by natural consequence of pregnancy?
DID NOT ENDURE INSULTS AND PERSECUTION AND STONING? WHAT DO THINK THE PENALTY IS FOR STONING "I AM"?
The only one that uttered I AM and was cursed by ALLAH (THE GOD) is SATAN, Satan uttered those words to THE GOD " I AM better than man and GOD cursed him for his pride and ignorance as MAN WAS MADE IN THE BEST OF MOULDS "THE IMAGE OF THE GOD".
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 27, 2010, 09:04:57 AM
Quote from: Peter on October 27, 2010, 08:40:58 AM
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 27, 2010, 03:31:48 AM
Quote from: Peter on October 26, 2010, 07:42:07 PM
1. How could Jesus proclaim in the 1st century, that He was before Abraham?
2. Why did those Jews want to stone Him for His proclamation?
yes where does he make and unambiguous statement? tell me what does I AM mean?
DOES IT MEAN :I EXISTED or does it mean I am GOD
DID JEWISH SCRIBES NOT LEAVE OUT THE NAME OF GOD AS IT COULD NOT BE PRONOUNCE BY COMMON FOLK?
So "I AM" means what?
No more obfuscating Mujaheed please answer directly and succinctly to that which you quote. Stay on topic.
1. How could Jesus proclaim in the 1st century, that He was before Abraham?
2. Why did those Jews want to stone Him for His proclamation?
I AM ASKING YOU WHAT IT MEANS,
DOES IT MEAN I AM? OR DOES IT MEAN GOD?
MY Understanding is that I AM am standing before Abraham, or by Abraham's words that GOD IS ONE! the line does not say I WAS BORN OR I EXISTED BEFORE ABRAHAM, DOES IT.
WHAT DOES before everything I AM WHAT I AM MEAN?
It is a declaration of Jesus' divinity. Otherwise there could be no other way that He could have been before Abraham. That's why the Jews wanted to stone Him. You stone Him yourself, just as the Jews desired, and crucify Him all over again by rejecting the Gospel to follow Mohammed.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 27, 2010, 09:04:57 AMTHAT I EXISTED BFORE EVRYTHING ELSE OR THAT it could mean in front of ABRAHAM I exist as a Prophet like him. I am in front of (before) Abraham, OR I SWEAR BY ABRAHAM I AM A PROPHET OF GOD, I did not get to finish my sentence as you started to misunderstand and stone me?
John 10:30 I and [my] Father are
one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
That "one" in the Koine Greek neuter gender means of one essence. That's why the Jews wanted to stone Him again. There is a whole section devoted to Jesus' divinity. If you have a genuine interest in learning about it I recommend you thoroughly explore it since your post indicates complete unfamiliarity with it. There is no need to repeat those threads here.
The purpose of this thread was to open your eyes to the fact that God is without limitation. While at the same time your view of Him is limited to what could be conceived by the child-like mind, of a single, 7th century desert dwelling illiterate.
Quote from: Peter on October 27, 2010, 09:30:36 AM
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 27, 2010, 09:04:57 AM
Quote from: Peter on October 27, 2010, 08:40:58 AM
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 27, 2010, 03:31:48 AM
Quote from: Peter on October 26, 2010, 07:42:07 PM
1. How could Jesus proclaim in the 1st century, that He was before Abraham?
2. Why did those Jews want to stone Him for His proclamation?
yes where does he make and unambiguous statement? tell me what does I AM mean?
DOES IT MEAN :I EXISTED or does it mean I am GOD
DID JEWISH SCRIBES NOT LEAVE OUT THE NAME OF GOD AS IT COULD NOT BE PRONOUNCE BY COMMON FOLK?
So "I AM" means what?
No more obfuscating Mujaheed please answer directly and succinctly to that which you quote. Stay on topic.
1. How could Jesus proclaim in the 1st century, that He was before Abraham?
2. Why did those Jews want to stone Him for His proclamation?
I AM ASKING YOU WHAT IT MEANS,
DOES IT MEAN I AM? OR DOES IT MEAN GOD?
MY Understanding is that I AM am standing before Abraham, or by Abraham's words that GOD IS ONE! the line does not say I WAS BORN OR I EXISTED BEFORE ABRAHAM, DOES IT.
WHAT DOES before everything I AM WHAT I AM MEAN?
It is a declaration of Jesus' divinity. Otherwise there could be no other way that He could have been before Abraham. That's why the Jews wanted to stone Him. You stone Him yourself, just as the Jews desired, and crucify Him all over again.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 27, 2010, 09:04:57 AMTHAT I EXISTED BFORE EVRYTHING ELSE OR THAT it could mean in front of ABRAHAM I exist as a Prophet like him. I am in front of (before) Abraham, OR I SWEAR BY ABRAHAM I AM A PROPHET OF GOD, I did not get to finish my sentence as you started to misunderstand and stone me?
John 10:30 I and [my] Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
That "one" in the Koine Greek neuter gender means of one essence. That's why the Jews wanted to stone Him again. There is a whole section devoted to Jesus' divinity. If you have a genuine interest in learning about it I recommend you thoroughly explore it since your post indicates complete unfamiliarity with it. There is no need to repeat those threads here.
The purpose of this thread was to open your eyes to the fact that God is without limitation. While at the same time your view of Him is limited to what could be conceived by the child-like mind, of a single, 7th century desert dwelling illiterate.
I am not unfamiliar with it I attended a school that compelled BIBLE STUDIES from the age of 7, and the priests could not answer any questions more than you can in this forum. Your speculation is not even your own.
I have been looking at the subject for almost 49 years and the more I look at it the more the evidence mounts up to the fact that It was nothing but conjecture on the part of Scholars of the BIBLE who wrote from their own opinions in Rome at a time that the needed a political solution to a religious problem.
RELIGION of ISIS was favored by the woman (VIRGIN BIRTH AND chastity)
Religion of Mithra (favored by the Roman soldiers coming from Persia. (MITHRA was born on the 25 of December)
Combine these religions and you have the NT.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 27, 2010, 09:37:55 AM
I am not unfamiliar with it I attended a school that compelled BIBLE STUDIES from the age of 7, and the priests could not answer any questions.........
If that's a reference to Roman Catholic priests it's no wonder and perhaps helps us understand how you got where you are. Please browse the Roman Catholic section. There are lots of parallels between Roman Catholicism and Islam.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 27, 2010, 09:37:55 AM....... more than you can in this forum. Your speculation is not even your own.
I have been looking at the subject for almost 49 years and the more I look at it the more the evidence mounts up to the fact that It was nothing but conjecture on the part of Scholars of the BIBLE who wrote from their own opinions in Rome at a time that the needed a political solution to a religious problem.
You can't pretend that you have an interest in
other than conjecture, when you believe 7th and 8th century created, Mohammedan historical fiction.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1912.0
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 27, 2010, 09:37:55 AM
RELIGION of ISIS was favored by the woman (VIRGIN BIRTH AND chastity)
Religion of Mithra (favored by the Roman soldiers coming from Persia. (MITHRA was born on the 25 of December)
Combine these religions and you have the NT.
Mohammed lifted Jesus' virgin birth from Scripture. So if you are announcing that you are turning atheist or agnostic, then perhaps it's a step in the right direction. No shortage of Mohammed's followers stop off there before seeking the love of Yeshua.
Regarding pagaism that was brought into the institutional "church" - particularly the extra/non scriptural heresies that were brought into Roman Catholicism - I highly recommend the book "Pagan Christianity" by Frank Viola. Doesn't go all that easy on the protestant "church" either.
I have some things to take care of so I will be back later. If you try another blizzard of non-responsive posts they will wind up with the rest. Don't you find this chat preferable?
QuoteRELIGION of ISIS was favored by the woman (VIRGIN BIRTH AND chastity)
Religion of Mithra (favored by the Roman soldiers coming from Persia. (MITHRA was born on the 25 of December)
Combine these religions and you have the NT.
Sorry but the centrality of Mary is an RCC doctrine not scriptural. Secondly the Religion of Mithra did not include any set date for his birth and even if it did the Bible does not give the date of Jesus' birth and it isn't required to celebrate it. Furthermore your assertion would seem that you are doubting Jesus' virgin birth. Is this the case?
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 27, 2010, 09:28:28 AM
SO ACCORDING TO YOU JESUS IS GOD? and he did not need any sustenance (he never ate food) he brought himself into the world by his own accord with no Mother or Spirit? Was not sustained in the womb by natural consequence of pregnancy?
DID NOT ENDURE INSULTS AND PERSECUTION AND STONING? WHAT DO THINK THE PENALTY IS FOR STONING "I AM"?
The only one that uttered I AM and was cursed by ALLAH (THE GOD) is SATAN, Satan uttered those words to THE GOD " I AM better than man and GOD cursed him for his pride and ignorance as MAN WAS MADE IN THE BEST OF MOULDS "THE IMAGE OF THE GOD".
Did his body need sustenace? Certainly but as He showed on Calvary morning He had authority over death and did not need anything to sustain His being? Are you not more than flesh and blood? Your soul needs sustenace from God to exist but Jesus was the very Spirit of God in flesh and His Spirit needs no sustenace as He demonstrated when He raised His body from the dead.
Quote from: resistingrexmundi on October 27, 2010, 10:13:08 AM
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 27, 2010, 09:28:28 AM
Did his body need sustenace? Certainly but as He showed on Calvary morning He had authority over death and did not need anything to sustain His being? Are you not more than flesh and blood? Your soul needs sustenace from God to exist but Jesus was the very Spirit of God in flesh and His Spirit needs no sustenace as He demonstrated when He raised His body from the dead.
you did say self sustaining? so what is he either needed food like everyone else which implies he needed the bathroom like everyone else
I know I am holding a Spirit inside of me, my spirit (RUH) came through the union of a mother and father, Prophet Adam's (PBUH) Spirit was place there directly by God and The Prophet Jesus (PBUH) spirit was sent with the Angel Gabriel. These are signs for believing men and women not debating points for Pagan worshipping or confusion for those prone to conjecture and opinions. It is in conformity with the entire BIBLE. The scribes and pharisees dont say anything clearly they let you draw conclusions by upper and lower case use that did not exist, in the language of the Scriptures.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 27, 2010, 10:30:33 AM
Quote from: resistingrexmundi on October 27, 2010, 10:13:08 AM
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 27, 2010, 09:28:28 AM
Did his body need sustenace? Certainly but as He showed on Calvary morning He had authority over death and did not need anything to sustain His being? Are you not more than flesh and blood? Your soul needs sustenace from God to exist but Jesus was the very Spirit of God in flesh and His Spirit needs no sustenace as He demonstrated when He raised His body from the dead.
you did say self sustaining? so what is he either needed food like everyone else which implies he needed the bathroom like everyone else
I know I am holding a Spirit inside of me, my spirit (RUH) came through the union of a mother and father, Prophet Adam's (PBUH) Spirit was place there directly by God and The Prophet Jesus (PBUH) spirit was sent with the Angel Gabriel. These are signs for believing men and women not debating points for Pagan worshipping or confusion for those prone to conjecture and opinions. It is in conformity with the entire BIBLE. The scribes and pharisees dont say anything clearly they let you draw conclusions by upper and lower case use that did not exist, in the language of the Scriptures.
Everyone's spirit came from God. Noone but He can create a spirit. Which is just my point. Jesus' Spirit is the very Spirit of God. It sustains itself. If God should choose to dwell in flesh He can. simple as that. Furthermore Jesus' sacrafice would have meant little if He had not allowed the limitations of the flesh to have affected him. If you cannot feel hunger does fasting really mean anything? So if Jesus' body could not feel pain or death then what would His sacrafice have meant to us?
Quote from: resistingrexmundi on October 27, 2010, 10:08:47 AM
QuoteRELIGION of ISIS was favored by the woman (VIRGIN BIRTH AND chastity)
Religion of Mithra (favored by the Roman soldiers coming from Persia. (MITHRA was born on the 25 of December)
Combine these religions and you have the NT.
Sorry but the centrality of Mary is an RCC doctrine not scriptural. Secondly the Religion of Mithra did not include any set date for his birth and even if it did the Bible does not give the date of Jesus' birth and it isn't required to celebrate it. Furthermore your assertion would seem that you are doubting Jesus' virgin birth. Is this the case?
Mohammed branded his own style of Marianism lifted from the Roman Church. Another parallel.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=512.0
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 26, 2010, 06:06:15 PM
Quote from: Peter on October 26, 2010, 05:21:37 PM
If God, as your next door neighbor, simply told you He was God, do you think you would believe Him?
Definitely not, NO MAN HATH SEEN GOD....
You wouldn't be seeing God, but seeing God as he chose to reveal Himself to you, as your next door neighbor.
You would be seeing that neighbor.
In the Old Testament God revealed Himself to Moses speaking through a burning bush (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&expIds=17259,26637,26767,27113,27164,27182,27284&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=god+revealed+himself+to+moses+as+burning+bush&cp=45&pf=p&sclient=psy&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=god+spoke+to+moses+through+burning+bush&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=499faa430ac3503f), for example.
Another time God manifest Himself alongside 3 guys in an oven.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=615.0
So if God wanted to inhabit the flesh of a man, and move in next door to you, God would be without limit to do that, wouldn't He?
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 26, 2010, 06:06:15 PM....and besides that I have been warned that the GOD OF THIS WORLD IS SATAN.
Quote from: Peter on October 27, 2010, 04:13:05 PM
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 26, 2010, 06:06:15 PM
Quote from: Peter on October 26, 2010, 05:21:37 PM
If God, as your next door neighbor, simply told you He was God, do you think you would believe Him?
Definitely not, NO MAN HATH SEEN GOD....
You wouldn't be seeing God, but seeing God as he chose to reveal Himself to you, as your next door neighbor.
You would be seeing that neighbor.
In the Old Testament God revealed Himself to Moses speaking through a burning bush (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&expIds=17259,26637,26767,27113,27164,27182,27284&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=god+revealed+himself+to+moses+as+burning+bush&cp=45&pf=p&sclient=psy&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=god+spoke+to+moses+through+burning+bush&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=499faa430ac3503f), for example.
Another time God manifest Himself alongside 3 guys in an oven.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=615.0
So if God wanted to inhabit the flesh of a man, and move in next door to you, God would be without limit to do that, wouldn't He?
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 26, 2010, 06:06:15 PM....and besides that I have been warned that the GOD OF THIS WORLD IS SATAN.
You seem to have the basic principle correct but you on the wrong path, the philosophy is Hindu based where humans become the manifestation of GOD
The Hinduism is well known for the multiplicity of the Gods. It doesn't advocate the worship of any particular deity. In this context, the Hindu concept of God can be misinterpreted. The fact is that, all these gods and goddesses represent different aspects of the absolute supreme called Brahman. One should understand the fact that
each deity is a manifestation of Brahman. It symbolizes one particular aspect of Brahman, or ultimately Brahman itself.
The religion of Abraham is the worship of THE ONE TRUE GOD, and the scriptures is the criteria for worship in the manner that is required from us. WHEN A RELIGION DEVIATES FROM THIS A NEW PROPHET IS SENT, SO GOD SENT PROPHETS TO RECONFIRM THIS PRINCIPLE, Moses, The burning bush is not a manifestation,its a burning bush, the bush did not SPEAK to Moses GOD DID,
The bush is not a manifestation its a creation of God in Obedience to GOD.
THE SEA THAT PARTED IS NOT A MANIFESTATION it is nature in obedience to God, The whale is not a manifestation of God it is In obedience when It did not digest Jonah, GOD commands we obey with Love and kindness.
The spirit (SOUL-RUH) is not a manifestation it is the command of God, Remove it and the body is no longer able to function.
WHEN PEOPLE FALL INTO IGNORANCE THEY START TO WORSHIP MANIFESTATIONS AND EVENTUALLY IDOLS. HISTORY BEARS WITNESS TO IT, ALL THE ARCHEOLOGY OF SUMER, EGYPT AND MAYA SPEAKS OG GODS, DEIFYING HUMANS approximately 4000-5000 years ago and they were all destroyed. THEY ALL WORSHIPPED MAN OR IDOLS.
Don't junk it up or you are headed off to spam again. We already covered "PEOPLE FALL INTO IGNORANCE .... AND EVENTUALLY IDOLS" and the subject of Mohammedan veneration (not worship, so don't start) of the Quraish's black stone idol.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1906.msg8066#msg8066
I asked
"So if God wanted to inhabit the flesh of a man, and move in next door to you, God would be without limit to do that, wouldn't He?"
Simple yes or no will do fine.
Quote from: Peter on October 27, 2010, 04:48:54 PM
Don't junk it up or you are headed off to spam again. We already covered "PEOPLE FALL INTO IGNORANCE .... AND EVENTUALLY IDOLS" and the subject of Mohammedan veneration (not worship, so don't start) of the Quraish's black stone idol.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1906.msg8066#msg8066
I asked
"So if God wanted to inhabit the flesh of a man, and move in next door to you, God would be without limit to do that, wouldn't He?"
Simple yes or no will do fine.
A SIMPLE ANSWER WILL NOT DO AS YOU HAVE AN ENTIRE LINE DESCRIBING THE QUESTION!
IT DOES NOT BEFIT THE MAJESTY OF GOD TO INVADE, MANIFEST, INHABIT A HUMAN Because the bible confesses THAT IT IS THE work OF DEMONS AND SPIRITS (EVIL ONES)
Mark 5:1-20 (web)
They came to the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.
When he had come out of the boat,
immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
who had his dwelling in the tombs.
Nobody could bind him any more, not even with chains,
because he had been often bound with fetters and chains,
and the chains had been torn apart by him, and the fetters broken in pieces.
Nobody had the strength to tame him.
Always, night and day, in the tombs and in the mountains,
he was crying out, and cutting himself with stones.
When he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and bowed down to him,
and crying out with a loud voice, he said,
"What have I to do with you, Jesus, you Son of the Most High God?
I adjure you by God, don’t torment me."
For he said to him, "Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!"
He asked him, "What is your name?"
He said to him, "My name is Legion, for we are many."
He begged him much that he would not send them away out of the country.
Now there was on the mountainside a great herd of pigs feeding.
All the demons begged him, saying,
"Send us into the pigs, that we may enter into them."
At once Jesus gave them permission.
The unclean spirits came out and entered into the pigs.
The herd of about two thousand rushed down the steep bank into the sea,
and they were drowned in the sea.
BIBLE DOES NOT LIKE PIGS!
All eyes can see why you avoid simple questions like the plague.
"God would be without limit to do that, wouldn't He?"
The answer regarding YHWH, of the Jews and Christians is an unequivocal "Yes God can do anything He wants to do without limitation". Even light-years beyond what human minds can conceive. Simply put, God IS. That's why He devised ways to reveal Himself to us, in terms that our human minds could comprehend.
I guess I should have recognized that you were thinking in terms of the limits of Mohammed's "Allah". After all he did arrange to have his sacred Kaaba built on a flood plain!
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1906.msg8076#msg8076
Quote from: Peter on October 27, 2010, 05:41:05 PM
All eyes can see why you avoid simple questions like the plague.
"God would be without limit to do that, wouldn't He?"
The answer regarding YHWH, of the Jews and Christians is an unequivocal "Yes God can do anything He wants to do without limitation". Even light-years beyond what human minds can conceive. Simply put, God IS. That's why He devised ways to reveal Himself to us, in terms that our human minds could comprehend.
I guess I should have recognized that you were thinking in terms of the limits of Mohammed's "Allah". After all he did arrange to have his sacred Kaaba built on a flood plain!
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1906.msg8076#msg8076
HIGHLY FLAWED LOGIC, BUT THEN AGAIN PAGAN LOGIC HAS ALWAYS BEEN HIGHLY FLAWED
HOW COME YOU THE ONLY ONE THAT WANTS QUESTIONS ANSWERED AND WHEN YOU CANT ANSWER T+YOU HURL FALSE RHETORIC AGAINST ISLAM!!!
YOU WANT TO BELIEVE AS APAGAN THAT GOD CAN BE A MAN, THAT IS COMPLETELY AGAINST THE ENTIRE SCRIPTURE AND WOULD NEGATE THE ENTIRE REASON FOR OUR EXISTENCE, DOES IT NOT. WHY NOT LEAVE US IN HEAVEN IF GOD WANTS US TO GET TO KNOW HIM A LITTLE A BETTER,
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 27, 2010, 06:01:55 PM
Quote from: Peter on October 27, 2010, 05:41:05 PM
All eyes can see why you avoid simple questions like the plague.
"God would be without limit to do that, wouldn't He?"
The answer regarding YHWH, of the Jews and Christians is an unequivocal "Yes God can do anything He wants to do without limitation". Even light-years beyond what human minds can conceive. Simply put, God IS. That's why He devised ways to reveal Himself to us, in terms that our human minds could comprehend.
I guess I should have recognized that you were thinking in terms of the limits of Mohammed's "Allah". After all he did arrange to have his sacred Kaaba built on a flood plain!
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1906.msg8076#msg8076
HIGHLY FLAWED LOGIC, BUT THEN AGAIN PAGAN LOGIC HAS ALWAYS BEEN HIGHLY FLAWED
HOW COME YOU THE ONLY ONE THAT WANTS QUESTIONS ANSWERED AND WHEN YOU CANT ANSWER T+YOU HURL FALSE RHETORIC AGAINST ISLAM!!!
YOU WANT TO BELIEVE AS APAGAN THAT GOD CAN BE A MAN, THAT IS COMPLETELY AGAINST THE ENTIRE SCRIPTURE AND WOULD NEGATE THE ENTIRE REASON FOR OUR EXISTENCE, DOES IT NOT. WHY NOT LEAVE US IN HEAVEN IF GOD WANTS US TO GET TO KNOW HIM A LITTLE A BETTER,
I see. So...
"The answer regarding YHWH, of the Jews and Christians is an unequivocal "Yes God can do anything He wants to do without limitation". Even light-years beyond what human minds can conceive."
Is "HIGHLY FLAWED" "PAGAN LOGIC"
but believing Mohammed's "Allah" placed his Quraish 360 idol worshiping kaaba, on a flood plain where it could be "washed" by sewage laden floodwater, that Mohammed's followers would in tern would bow toward, and travel to and circumambulate just like the pagan Arabians did, is not "pagan logic".
Quote from: Peter on October 28, 2010, 07:25:47 AM
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 27, 2010, 06:01:55 PM
Quote from: Peter on October 27, 2010, 05:41:05 PM
All eyes can see why you avoid simple questions like the plague.
"God would be without limit to do that, wouldn't He?"
The answer regarding YHWH, of the Jews and Christians is an unequivocal "Yes God can do anything He wants to do without limitation". Even light-years beyond what human minds can conceive. Simply put, God IS. That's why He devised ways to reveal Himself to us, in terms that our human minds could comprehend.
I guess I should have recognized that you were thinking in terms of the limits of Mohammed's "Allah". After all he did arrange to have his sacred Kaaba built on a flood plain!
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1906.msg8076#msg8076
HIGHLY FLAWED LOGIC, BUT THEN AGAIN PAGAN LOGIC HAS ALWAYS BEEN HIGHLY FLAWED
HOW COME YOU THE ONLY ONE THAT WANTS QUESTIONS ANSWERED AND WHEN YOU CANT ANSWER T+YOU HURL FALSE RHETORIC AGAINST ISLAM!!!
YOU WANT TO BELIEVE AS APAGAN THAT GOD CAN BE A MAN, THAT IS COMPLETELY AGAINST THE ENTIRE SCRIPTURE AND WOULD NEGATE THE ENTIRE REASON FOR OUR EXISTENCE, DOES IT NOT. WHY NOT LEAVE US IN HEAVEN IF GOD WANTS US TO GET TO KNOW HIM A LITTLE A BETTER,
I see. So...
"The answer regarding YHWH, of the Jews and Christians is an unequivocal "Yes God can do anything He wants to do without limitation". Even light-years beyond what human minds can conceive."
Is "HIGHLY FLAWED" "PAGAN LOGIC"
but believing Mohammed's "Allah" placed his Quraish 360 idol worshiping kaaba, on a flood plain where it could be "washed" by sewage laden floodwater, that Mohammed's followers would in tern would bow toward, and travel to and circumambulate just like the pagan Arabians did, is not "pagan logic".
Isn't this whole thread hypothetical and a hypothetical question you posed? (CONJECTURE ON YOUR PART?)
YES CAN GOD CAN DO AS HE PLEASES, YOUR CONJECTURE EXCLUDED, as IT DOES NOT BEFIT THAT MAJESTY OF THE GOD, IT IS MERELY CONJECTURE AND HAS NO BASIS IN BELIEF.
We can discuss Muhammad (May ALLAH Bestow peace upon him) if you wish, the essence of clarity of worshipping the one GOD of the Universe, showing us how to worship correctly as man had once again reverted to the pagan forms of worship and deifying human beings, just like many civilizations that were given a little knowledge and culture and prosperity after the Prophets of God had been sent to them.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 28, 2010, 11:10:31 AM
Isn't this whole thread hypothetical and a hypothetical question you posed? (CONJECTURE ON YOUR PART?)
YES CAN GOD CAN DO AS HE PLEASES, YOUR CONJECTURE EXCLUDED, as IT DOES NOT BEFIT THAT MAJESTY OF THE GOD, IT IS MERELY CONJECTURE AND HAS NO BASIS IN BELIEF.
We can discuss Muhammad (May ALLAH Bestow peace upon him) if you wish, the essence of clarity of worshipping the one GOD of the Universe, showing us how to worship correctly as man had once again reverted to the pagan forms of worship and deifying human beings, just like many civilizations that were given a little knowledge and culture and prosperity after the Prophets of God had been sent to them.
You say it isn't befitting that God should do something. Who decides that? You? If we are made in His image and are the crown jewel of His creation why would He feel demeaned in any way by cohabitating with us as He saw fit? And just to head you off with more of your ambiguous mystery religion allusions the vast majority of those pagan religions that deified men began doing so AFTER Christianity.
Quote from: resistingrexmundi on October 28, 2010, 11:41:38 AM
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 28, 2010, 11:10:31 AM
Isn't this whole thread hypothetical and a hypothetical question you posed? (CONJECTURE ON YOUR PART?)
YES CAN GOD CAN DO AS HE PLEASES, YOUR CONJECTURE EXCLUDED, as IT DOES NOT BEFIT THAT MAJESTY OF THE GOD, IT IS MERELY CONJECTURE AND HAS NO BASIS IN BELIEF.
We can discuss Muhammad (May ALLAH Bestow peace upon him) if you wish, the essence of clarity of worshipping the one GOD of the Universe, showing us how to worship correctly as man had once again reverted to the pagan forms of worship and deifying human beings, just like many civilizations that were given a little knowledge and culture and prosperity after the Prophets of God had been sent to them.
You say it isn't befitting that God should do something. Who decides that? You? If we are made in His image and are the crown jewel of His creation why would He feel demeaned in any way by cohabitating with us as He saw fit? And just to head you off with more of your ambiguous mystery religion allusions the vast majority of those pagan religions that deified men began doing so AFTER Christianity.
NO I SAID IT DOES NOT BEFIT THE MAJESTY OF THE GOD, YOu cannot assign to GOD what he can and cannot do, you should not speculate or raise and opinion and nothing but conjecture about GOD, IS GOD ETERNAL AND CAN A GOD DIE OR ANY PART OF A MANIFESTATION OF GOD, Answer a real question will you and stop with your conjecturing.
ALL THE RELIGIONS I WAS REFERRING TO PREDATES CHRISTIANITY
Mithra
Mithraism was emphatically a soldier religion: Mithra, its hero, was especially a divinity of fidelity, manliness, and bravery; the stress it laid on good fellowship and brotherliness, its exclusion of women, and the secret bond amongst its members have suggested the idea that Mithraism was Masonry amongst the Roman soldiery. At the same time Eastern slaves and foreign tradesmen maintained its propaganda in the cities.
Greeks
The Greek pantheon of gods included
mortal-born heroes and heroines who were elevated to godhood through a process which the Greeks termed apotheosis. Some of these received the privilege as a reward for their benefactions to mankind--e.g. Heracles, Asclepius and Aristaeus--, others through marriage to gods--e.g. Ariadne, Tithonus and Psyche--, and some by luck or pure chance--i.e. Glaucus.SUMERIANS plus minus 3000BC
There are references in the oral traditions, drawings and cuneiform tablets of the Dogons, to human looking beings who have feet but who are portrayed as having a large fish skin running down their bodies.
The Dogon people are an indigeous tribe who occupy a region in Mali, south of the Sahara Desert in Africa. There are about 100,000 members in the tribe.
They are a reclusive tribe of cave and hillside-dwelling farming people inhabiting a sparse, rocky plateau in southeastern Mali, West Africa. They live in the Homburi Mountains near Timbuktu. Isolated topographically and culturally from the outside world for countless centuries, they may well appear on first sight to be exceedingly unlikely receptacles of highly advanced astronomical knowledge which only goes to show just how easily we can be deceived by outward appearances.
They are believed to be of Egyptian descent. After living in Libya for a time, they settled in Mali, West Africa, bringing with them astronomy legends dating from before
3200 BCE.
Read more: http://meta-religion.com/World_Religions/Ancient_religions/Africa/dogon_theory_of_creation.htm#ixzz13gzAR9eR
The Nommos were more fishlike than human, and had to live in water. They were saviors and spiritual guardians: "The Nommo divided his body among men to feed them; that is why it is also said that as the universe "had drunk of his body," the Nommo also made men drink. He gave all his life principles to human beings."
The Nommo was crucified and resurrected and in the future will again visit the Earth, this time in human form. Later he will assume his amphibious form and will rule the world from the waters.Read more: http://meta-religion.com/World_Religions/Ancient_religions/Africa/dogon_theory_of_creation.htm#ixzz13gyrslCy
Hindus 3.2 Million Manifestations of GOD
There are Thousands more stories that run along similar lines, Virgin Birth, death and ressurection and a second coming
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 28, 2010, 05:45:46 PM
Quote from: resistingrexmundi on October 28, 2010, 11:41:38 AM
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 28, 2010, 11:10:31 AM
Isn't this whole thread hypothetical and a hypothetical question you posed? (CONJECTURE ON YOUR PART?)
YES CAN GOD CAN DO AS HE PLEASES, YOUR CONJECTURE EXCLUDED, as IT DOES NOT BEFIT THAT MAJESTY OF THE GOD, IT IS MERELY CONJECTURE AND HAS NO BASIS IN BELIEF.
We can discuss Muhammad (May ALLAH Bestow peace upon him) if you wish, the essence of clarity of worshipping the one GOD of the Universe, showing us how to worship correctly as man had once again reverted to the pagan forms of worship and deifying human beings, just like many civilizations that were given a little knowledge and culture and prosperity after the Prophets of God had been sent to them.
You say it isn't befitting that God should do something. Who decides that? You? If we are made in His image and are the crown jewel of His creation why would He feel demeaned in any way by cohabitating with us as He saw fit? And just to head you off with more of your ambiguous mystery religion allusions the vast majority of those pagan religions that deified men began doing so AFTER Christianity.
NO I SAID IT DOES NOT BEFIT THE MAJESTY OF THE GOD....
You ignored his point. Pay attention now.
If God didn't speak to you personally and tell you what does or does not "befit" Him, then how do you support your claim, through other than
Mohammed's 7th century law (http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1930.msg8247#msg8247)?
QuoteALL THE RELIGIONS I WAS REFERRING TO PREDATES CHRISTIANITY
Allow me to be more precise. First Christianity is simply Judaism fulfilled. So no they do not. Some of those religions do predate the NT but as they are in a constant state of flux it would have been more accurate to say that their dying/ressurection themes came AFTER Christianity. If you are interested and willing "The Case for the Real Jesus" by Lee Strobel goes into detail on that very subject. Besides as I said before if you were to agree that Christianity was a rip-off of those other mystery religions then you must also reject the virgin birth. But you have said you do not. It might be best for you to drop that line of argument. And if you want to get into a finger pointing contest I would ask you to show me why Muhammad borrowed the Buraq from Zoastrism, or the multiple rituals from the pre-existing pagan culture in Mecca, which itself did not exist prior to the 4th century A.D.
But the main question my post posed was summarized by Pete. Namely this...
QuoteIf God didn't speak to you personally and tell you what does or does not "befit" Him, then how do you support your claim, through other than Mohammed's 7th century law?
Who are you to say what befits the Almighty? If He chooses to do something does He need anyone's permission?
Quote from: resistingrexmundi on October 29, 2010, 08:54:12 AM
QuoteALL THE RELIGIONS I WAS REFERRING TO PREDATES CHRISTIANITY
Allow me to be more precise. First Christianity is simply Judaism fulfilled. So no they do not. Some of those religions do predate the NT but as they are in a constant state of flux it would have been more accurate to say that their dying/ressurection themes came AFTER Christianity. If you are interested and willing "The Case for the Real Jesus" by Lee Strobel goes into detail on that very subject. Besides as I said before if you were to agree that Christianity was a rip-off of those other mystery religions then you must also reject the virgin birth. But you have said you do not. It might be best for you to drop that line of argument. And if you want to get into a finger pointing contest I would ask you to show me why Muhammad borrowed the Buraq from Zoastrism, or the multiple rituals from the pre-existing pagan culture in Mecca, which itself did not exist prior to the 4th century A.D.
But the main question my post posed was summarized by Pete. Namely this...
QuoteIf God didn't speak to you personally and tell you what does or does not "befit" Him, then how do you support your claim, through other than Mohammed's 7th century law?
Who are you to say what befits the Almighty? If He chooses to do something does He need anyone's permission?
I have a copy of Lee Strobels investigations and it contains many inaccuracies and his personal conjecture as well as interpretations from his own opinion. I will check my notes (yes I make notes) and post them, as I read the Book more than a year ago.
King James Bible, Numbers 23:19
God [is] not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do [it]? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
Genesis
8:20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I
will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth ; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.So we are nor born in sin? but our imagination is evil from our youth?
8:22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
DOES
SHALL NOT CEASE MEAN THAT THE EARTH WILL REMAIN FOREVER? THE SUN IS GOING TO LAST FOREVER?
DID Strobel address all the absurdities and contradictions and murder and fornication in the BIBLE?
He also mainly argues in the line of going from an Atheist to believing somehow is enough, that Just by saying you now believe miraculously transform into a goody two shoes that does not harm. JESUS DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUR SLAVERY, but if you become a christian you automatically not Racist and a bigot and a slave owner, I am wondering about millions of Christians.
In Islam belief in THE GOD is only the first rung of a ladder and Christians do not understand this. Accepting there is a GOD THAT IS ONE IS STEP NUMBER ONE TO BEING A GOOD PERSON. (INCLUDES ALL FORMS OF KINDNESS AND HONORING PARENTS,setting slaves free, peaceful living. ETC.
STEP TWO FALL ON YOUR FACE AND PRAY AS THE PROPHETS DID
STEP THREE GIVE CHARITY (COMPULSORY AND VOLUNTARILY)
STEP FOUR FAST LIKE THE {PROPHETS DID)
STEP FIVE MAKE A SACRIFICE OF SOME OF YOUR WEALTH AND TIME FOR THE GOD, (pilgrimage) If you by the means.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 29, 2010, 09:39:39 AM
I have a copy of Lee Strobels investigations and it contains many inaccuracies and his personal conjecture as well as interpretations from his own opinion. I will check my notes (yes I make notes) and post them, as I read the Book more than a year ago.
I have noticed a pattern with you. Anyone who doesn't arrive at the same conclusion as you is either lying, using conjecture or opinion. But the problem still remains that the book is not Strobel's opinions but the results of interviews conducted with the top specialists in their field. I have no doubt though that you will find some criticism on the web about the book and build on that because while you level these accusations you never substantiate them.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 29, 2010, 09:39:39 AM
King James Bible, Numbers 23:19
God [is] not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do [it]? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
This verse has been answered plenty on this forum. Notice the last part. It doesn't say that God cannot manifest as a man. It says that He doesn't lie like a man. It is contrasting His character with man's. It also is indicative of His everlasting presence.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 29, 2010, 09:39:39 AM
Genesis
8:20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth ; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
So we are nor born in sin? but our imagination is evil from our youth?
Are you not born capable of committing sin?
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 29, 2010, 09:39:39 AM
8:22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
DOES SHALL NOT CEASE MEAN THAT THE EARTH WILL REMAIN FOREVER? THE SUN IS GOING TO LAST FOREVER?
DID Strobel address all the absurdities and contradictions and murder and fornication in the BIBLE?
Well if you had actually read it you would know the subject of his book was to discount the various gnostic and mystery religion myths that are being spread as fact. And again we can get into the finger pointing game all day, but the fact remains you are purposely avoiding the point of the original post.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 29, 2010, 09:39:39 AM
He also mainly argues in the line of going from an Atheist to believing somehow is enough, that Just by saying you now believe miraculously transform into a goody two shoes that does not harm. JESUS DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUR SLAVERY, but if you become a christian you automatically not Racist and a bigot and a slave owner, I am wondering about millions of Christians.
Loving one another as you love yourself and doing unto others as you would have them do unto you would tell you where the Bible stands on slavery. If you do not like the idea of being enslaved then do not enslave. Duh. Furthermore the only countries that come to mind that still practice slavery are Islamic.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 29, 2010, 09:39:39 AM
In Islam belief in THE GOD is only the first rung of a ladder and Christians do not understand this. Accepting there is a GOD THAT IS ONE IS STEP NUMBER ONE TO BEING A GOOD PERSON. (INCLUDES ALL FORMS OF KINDNESS AND HONORING PARENTS,setting slaves free, peaceful living. ETC.
STEP TWO FALL ON YOUR FACE AND PRAY AS THE PROPHETS DID
STEP THREE GIVE CHARITY (COMPULSORY AND VOLUNTARILY)
STEP FOUR FAST LIKE THE {PROPHETS DID)
STEP FIVE MAKE A SACRIFICE OF SOME OF YOUR WEALTH AND TIME FOR THE GOD, (pilgrimage) If you by the means.
And you fail to understand that Christians do good works because they love others. Not as a way to buy themselves into heaven.
Now that all of your off topic obfuscating has been addressed answer the question.
If God didn't speak to you personally and tell you what does or does not "befit" Him, then how do you support your claim, through other than Mohammed's 7th century law?
Why couldn't God manifest as He wished?
Quote from: resistingrexmundi on October 29, 2010, 11:49:06 AM
And you fail to understand that Christians do good works because they love others. Not as a way to buy themselves into heaven.
Now that all of your off topic obfuscating has been addressed answer the question.
If God didn't speak to you personally and tell you what does or does not "befit" Him, then how do you support your claim, through other than Mohammed's 7th century law?
Why couldn't God manifest as He wished?
I read Lee Strobels BOOK over a year ago and it is the same rhetoric but written in an entertaining style for individuals who are somewhat ignorant of the facts. CONJECTURE AND OPINION IS THE STYLE OF A CHRISTIAN!! But we can set up a new post for that discussion.
FIRSTLY WHAT IS LOVE? DEFINE LOVE ACCORDING TO JESUS.
GOD SPOKE TO THE PROPHETS AND TO US THROUGH SCRIPTURE REVEALED TO THE PROPHETS. WE HAVE TO FOLLOW WHAT THE SCRIPTURE SAYS AS GIVEN TO US BY THE PROPHETS (NOT THE CONJECTURE OF THOSE THAT CLAIM TO FOLLOW THEM)
SAYING GOD CAME TO EARTH AND CLIMBED INSIDE A BODY TO MAKE HIMSELF KNOWN NULLIFIES ALL THE EFFORTS AND SACRIFICES OF THE PROPHETS!!
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 29, 2010, 06:04:06 PM
I read Lee Strobels BOOK over a year ago and it is the same rhetoric but written in an entertaining style for individuals who are somewhat ignorant of the facts. CONJECTURE AND OPINION IS THE STYLE OF A CHRISTIAN!! But we can set up a new post for that discussion.
Not until you show that you can actually do more than level accusations with no facts to back them up. You claim people are ignorant or liars without showing how they lied or how they are ignorant. You have been extremely rude to me in this way. So until you calm down and stick to the topic of this thread then a thread on Strobel can wait.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 29, 2010, 06:04:06 PM
FIRSTLY WHAT IS LOVE? DEFINE LOVE ACCORDING TO JESUS.
I will gladly explain that the moment you answer questions. In the meantime let me give you a hint.
Jhn 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 29, 2010, 06:04:06 PM
GOD SPOKE TO THE PROPHETS AND TO US THROUGH SCRIPTURE REVEALED TO THE PROPHETS. WE HAVE TO FOLLOW WHAT THE SCRIPTURE SAYS AS GIVEN TO US BY THE PROPHETS (NOT THE CONJECTURE OF THOSE THAT CLAIM TO FOLLOW THEM)
I do follow scripture. And that scripture tells me that God loves me so much He was willing to take the burden of sin on Himself so that I could satisfy His justice.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 29, 2010, 06:04:06 PM
SAYING GOD CAME TO EARTH AND CLIMBED INSIDE A BODY TO MAKE HIMSELF KNOWN NULLIFIES ALL THE EFFORTS AND SACRIFICES OF THE PROPHETS!!
Who is better suited to make God known. Intermediaries or God Himself? Now all of your conjectures aside. Answer the question that has been the whole point of this thread. If God wanted to manifest in the flesh and cohabitate with His creation could He do it? Yes or No?
Quote from: resistingrexmundi on October 30, 2010, 07:58:49 AM
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 29, 2010, 06:04:06 PM
I read Lee Strobels BOOK over a year ago and it is the same rhetoric but written in an entertaining style for individuals who are somewhat ignorant of the facts. CONJECTURE AND OPINION IS THE STYLE OF A CHRISTIAN!! But we can set up a new post for that discussion.
Not until you show that you can actually do more than level accusations with no facts to back them up. You claim people are ignorant or liars without showing how they lied or how they are ignorant. You have been extremely rude to me in this way. So until you calm down and stick to the topic of this thread then a thread on Strobel can wait.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 29, 2010, 06:04:06 PM
FIRSTLY WHAT IS LOVE? DEFINE LOVE ACCORDING TO JESUS.
I will gladly explain that the moment you answer questions. In the meantime let me give you a hint.
Jhn 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 29, 2010, 06:04:06 PM
GOD SPOKE TO THE PROPHETS AND TO US THROUGH SCRIPTURE REVEALED TO THE PROPHETS. WE HAVE TO FOLLOW WHAT THE SCRIPTURE SAYS AS GIVEN TO US BY THE PROPHETS (NOT THE CONJECTURE OF THOSE THAT CLAIM TO FOLLOW THEM)
I do follow scripture. And that scripture tells me that God loves me so much He was willing to take the burden of sin on Himself so that I could satisfy His justice.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 29, 2010, 06:04:06 PM
SAYING GOD CAME TO EARTH AND CLIMBED INSIDE A BODY TO MAKE HIMSELF KNOWN NULLIFIES ALL THE EFFORTS AND SACRIFICES OF THE PROPHETS!!
Who is better suited to make God known. Intermediaries or God Himself? Now all of your conjectures aside. Answer the question that has been the whole point of this thread. If God wanted to manifest in the flesh and cohabitate with His creation could He do it? Yes or No?
I have answered that Question, GOD COHABITING WITH HUMANS IS A QUESTION OF =THE GOD's DIVINITY< and NOT A QUESTION OF GOD"S ABILITY.
IT is an act that goes against everything that God has created us for. We are the manifestation of God, The Prophets made GOD known to us. We are to obey and serve THE GOD of the Universe, the one the only ALLAH.
The Prophets, from Adam, who met and spoke to THE GOD, Abraham who befriended THE GOD, Moses -Whom God spoke directly, Jesus- sent as a prophet by THE GOD as a sign and to deliver us from dajjal (THE SIN/Evil you refer to is not the sin in man) and finally the Prophet Muhammad (comforter and mercy unto all mankind, combining the faith of Abraham, the law of Moses the Love of Jesus in the way in which THE GOD WANTS us to worship him.
YOUR QUESTION IS LIKE YOUR CONJECTURE (faith based on absurd assumptions about GOD) and is not a dignified question.
TELL ME SOMETHING, CAN YOOU COMMIT MURDER (ARE YOU CAPABLE OF COMMITTING A MURDER?)
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 30, 2010, 10:17:18 AM
I have answered that Question, GOD COHABITING WITH HUMANS IS A QUESTION OF =THE GOD's DIVINITY< and NOT A QUESTION OF GOD"S ABILITY.
IT is an act that goes against everything that God has created us for. We are the manifestation of God, The Prophets made GOD known to us. We are to obey and serve THE GOD of the Universe, the one the only ALLAH.
It is a question of His ability. Why would God manifesting in the flesh bring His divinity into question? You have sidestepped the question again my friend.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 30, 2010, 10:17:18 AM
The Prophets, from Adam, who met and spoke to THE GOD, Abraham who befriended THE GOD, Moses -Whom God spoke directly, Jesus- sent as a prophet by THE GOD as a sign and to deliver us from dajjal (THE SIN/Evil you refer to is not the sin in man) and finally the Prophet Muhammad (comforter and mercy unto all mankind, combining the faith of Abraham, the law of Moses the Love of Jesus in the way in which THE GOD WANTS us to worship him.
God wishes more from us than worship. If worship was all He wanted He could have created us simply for that function. God expresses a desire for a loving relationship with those who willingly obey Him and return His affection. And Muhammad was anything but a comforter. He brought misery to countless and managed to foist his idea of God on others who were all to eager to join in his reprobate behaviour. He promised his fellow Meccans slaughter and he kept his promise.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 30, 2010, 10:17:18 AM
YOUR QUESTION IS LIKE YOUR CONJECTURE (faith based on absurd assumptions about GOD) and is not a dignified question.
You know I keep forgetting your god HATES when people ask too many questions concerning faith. Which might explain why you hate answering questions let alone considering them. Mine loves it. Truth doesn't need to be afraid of scrutiny.
Qur'an 5:101
"Believers, ask not questions about things which if made plain to you may cause you trouble when the Qur'an is revealed. Some people before you asked questions, and on that account lost their faith."
So we have to take Muhammad's word that Muhammad's word is true. Noone ever witnessed Allah speaking to him nor heard it. This is circular reasoning.
Maududi, in his commentary, The Meaning of the Qur'an, explains: "The Prophet forbade people to ask questions or to pry into such things."
Volume 2, Book 24, Number 555:
Narrated Ash-sha'bi:
The clerk of Al-Mughira bin Shu'ba narrated, "Muawiya wrote to Al-Mughira bin Shu'ba: Write to me something which you have heard from the Prophet (p.b.u.h) ." So Al-Mughira wrote: I heard the Prophet saying, "Allah has hated for you three things:
1. Vain talks, (useless talk) that you talk too much or about others.
2. Wasting of wealth (by extravagance)
3.
And asking too many questions (in disputed religious matters) or asking others for something (except in great need).
As opposed to...
Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
and...
1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 30, 2010, 10:17:18 AM
TELL ME SOMETHING, CAN YOOU COMMIT MURDER (ARE YOU CAPABLE OF COMMITTING A MURDER?)
Am I physically capable. Sure. My body possesses the necessary strength to facilitate the deed. But I am commanded not to. If you are trying to say God can do that but will not I will come back to my original point. Who says? Who commands God? Who tells God He cannot do what He wishes? He never said He wouldn't or couldn't manifest in the flesh. He manifested as a pillar of fire by night and a cloud by day in the Exodus. Yet we do not worship clouds or fire. Likewise we do not worship man or flesh but rather the Spirit that dwelt within that flesh giving it life and identity.
Quote from: resistingrexmundi on October 30, 2010, 12:30:51 PM
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 30, 2010, 10:17:18 AM
I have answered that Question, GOD COHABITING WITH HUMANS IS A QUESTION OF =THE GOD's DIVINITY< and NOT A QUESTION OF GOD"S ABILITY.
IT is an act that goes against everything that God has created us for. We are the manifestation of God, The Prophets made GOD known to us. We are to obey and serve THE GOD of the Universe, the one the only ALLAH.
It is a question of His ability. Why would God manifesting in the flesh bring His divinity into question? You have sidestepped the question again my friend.
QuoteHOW WOULD GOD DO THAT ? BECOME A HUMAN BEING? ENTER A HUMAN BEING LIKE A DEMON? CREATE HIMSELF AS A HUMAN? WOULD GOD NOT KNOW EXACTLY WHAT A HUMAN IS LIKE? DIVINITY IS THE QUESTION, YOU EITHER ONE AND A GOD OR YOU A HUMAN BEING, ONLY A PAGAN WISHES FOR EARTHLY GODS.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 30, 2010, 10:17:18 AM
The Prophets, from Adam, who met and spoke to THE GOD, Abraham who befriended THE GOD, Moses -Whom God spoke directly, Jesus- sent as a prophet by THE GOD as a sign and to deliver us from dajjal (THE SIN/Evil you refer to is not the sin in man) and finally the Prophet Muhammad (comforter and mercy unto all mankind, combining the faith of Abraham, the law of Moses the Love of Jesus in the way in which THE GOD WANTS us to worship him.
God wishes more from us than worship. If worship was all He wanted He could have created us simply for that function. God expresses a desire for a loving relationship with those who willingly obey Him and return His affection. And Muhammad was anything but a comforter. He brought misery to countless and managed to foist his idea of God on others who were all to eager to join in his reprobate behaviour. He promised his fellow Meccans slaughter and he kept his promise.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 30, 2010, 10:17:18 AM
QuoteAGAIN NOTHING BUT YOU UNQUALIFIED OPINION, OUR RELATIONSHIP IS OUR WORSHIP, THE DEGREE TO WHICH WE ABLE TO FOLLOW THE COMMANDS OF GOD OUT OF OUR LOVE FOR GOD. YOU LOVE YOUR MOTHER AND FATHER? AND WIFE AND CHILDREN AND WORLDLY POSSESSIONS? do you leave them to do what they want to or do you give them instructions as to how to live? WHAT IS THE FIRST COMMAND AND HAVE YOU BROKEN IT. OR YOU DONT HAVE TO FOLLOW IT ? IS YOUR LORD THE GOD NOT ONE?
YOUR QUESTION IS LIKE YOUR CONJECTURE (faith based on absurd assumptions about GOD) and is not a dignified question.
You know I keep forgetting your god HATES when people ask too many questions concerning faith. Which might explain why you hate answering questions let alone considering them. Mine loves it. Truth doesn't need to be afraid of scrutiny.
Qur'an 5:101 "Believers, ask not questions about things which if made plain to you may cause you trouble when the Qur'an is revealed. Some people before you asked questions, and on that account lost their faith."
So we have to take Muhammad's word that Muhammad's word is true. Noone ever witnessed Allah speaking to him nor heard it. This is circular reasoning.
Maududi, in his commentary, The Meaning of the Qur'an, explains: "The Prophet forbade people to ask questions or to pry into such things."
Volume 2, Book 24, Number 555:
Narrated Ash-sha'bi:
The clerk of Al-Mughira bin Shu'ba narrated, "Muawiya wrote to Al-Mughira bin Shu'ba: Write to me something which you have heard from the Prophet (p.b.u.h) ." So Al-Mughira wrote: I heard the Prophet saying, "Allah has hated for you three things:
1. Vain talks, (useless talk) that you talk too much or about others.
2. Wasting of wealth (by extravagance)
3. And asking too many questions (in disputed religious matters) or asking others for something (except in great need).
As opposed to...
Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
and...
1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 30, 2010, 10:17:18 AM
TELL ME SOMETHING, CAN YOOU COMMIT MURDER (ARE YOU CAPABLE OF COMMITTING A MURDER?)
Am I physically capable. Sure. My body possesses the necessary strength to facilitate the deed. But I am commanded not to. If you are trying to say God can do that but will not I will come back to my original point. Who says? Who commands God? Who tells God He cannot do what He wishes? He never said He wouldn't or couldn't manifest in the flesh. He manifested as a pillar of fire by night and a cloud by day in the Exodus. Yet we do not worship clouds or fire. Likewise we do not worship man or flesh but rather the Spirit that dwelt within that flesh giving it life and identity.
QuoteWhat I am saying is that you a potential murderer are you not? It is the command of GOD that Stops you from MURDER?UNLIKE YOU I DONT ASCRIBE THINGS TO GOD< I LOOK AT WHAT GOD SAYS AND FOLLOW HIS COMMAND WHY DONT YOU TRY TO DO THE SAME INSTEAD OF SAYING MY GOD AND YOUR GOD AS IF THEY ARE DIFFERENT GODS YOU ARROGANT MORON
QuoteWhat I am saying is that you a potential murderer are you not? It is the command of GOD that Stops you from MURDER?UNLIKE YOU I DONT ASCRIBE THINGS TO GOD< I LOOK AT WHAT GOD SAYS AND FOLLOW HIS COMMAND WHY DONT YOU TRY TO DO THE SAME INSTEAD OF SAYING MY GOD AND YOUR GOD AS IF THEY ARE DIFFERENT GODS YOU ARROGANT MORON
I do not murder for many reasons. First I wish to obey God. Second I do not WANT to. Third I do not want to put my family and friends through the angst of the ordeal. I could go on but since I try to love others as God loves me there are a lot of things I do not do that I am physically capable of. But once again you brilliantly missed the point.
Who says God can't or will not do something? No command holds Him back. So it is not ascribing anything to God when He Himself said He did these things. And furthermore you still did not answer the first two points.
Why could God not manifest in the flesh?
Why is it unbefitting for Him to do so and how do you know?
Now this will be the last time I ask you to keep a civil tongue. I am not sure if you are young and lack the temperment of age but mudslinging is not befitting someone who claims to worship God. If you slander me once more I will ban you for a while and give you time to think about being more careful with your words. Furthermore you and I do not worship the same God because the God of the Bible is not the god of the Qur'an.
Quote from: resistingrexmundi on October 31, 2010, 08:34:01 AM
QuoteWhat I am saying is that you a potential murderer are you not? It is the command of GOD that Stops you from MURDER?UNLIKE YOU I DONT ASCRIBE THINGS TO GOD< I LOOK AT WHAT GOD SAYS AND FOLLOW HIS COMMAND WHY DONT YOU TRY TO DO THE SAME INSTEAD OF SAYING MY GOD AND YOUR GOD AS IF THEY ARE DIFFERENT GODS YOU ARROGANT MORON
I do not murder for many reasons. First I wish to obey God. Second I do not WANT to. Third I do not want to put my family and friends through the angst of the ordeal. I could go on but since I try to love others as God loves me there are a lot of things I do not do that I am physically capable of. But once again you brilliantly missed the point.
Who says God can't or will not do something? No command holds Him back. So it is not ascribing anything to God when He Himself said He did these things. And furthermore you still did not answer the first two points.
Why could God not manifest in the flesh?
Why is it unbefitting for Him to do so and how do you know?
Now this will be the last time I ask you to keep a civil tongue. I am not sure if you are young and lack the temperment of age but mudslinging is not befitting someone who claims to worship God. If you slander me once more I will ban you for a while and give you time to think about being more careful with your words. Furthermore you and I do not worship the same God because the God of the Bible is not the god of the Qur'an.
MY DEAR RESISTINREXMUNDI
We already established that you a potential murderer but unwilling to enter into the act. (do see how conjecture works ? and if I take that line further I would ask. How do we know for sure you did not murder someone before.) DO WE HAVE THE PROOF OTHER THAN YOUR WORD THAT YOU NEVER MURDERED ANYONE OR SILENTLY REJOICED WHEN SOMEONE IS MURDERED?
THAT is the nature of the conjecturer to ask questions until he convinces himself of the incorrect hypothetical truth of a matter that in no way relates to the original idea or belief.
HEAR YE O ISRAEL YOUR LORD GOD IS ONE. IT DOES NOR ADD THAT THE ONE IS THREE IN ONE OR THAT THE ONE OCCASIONALLY BECOMES A MAN OR PART OF A MAN, IS GOD A SPIRIT? IS GOD A MAN? IS GOD A THE GOD? all of the above is nullifies all the bible verses that says GOD IS ONE.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 31, 2010, 12:29:13 PM
Quote from: resistingrexmundi on October 31, 2010, 08:34:01 AM
QuoteWhat I am saying is that you a potential murderer are you not? It is the command of GOD that Stops you from MURDER?UNLIKE YOU I DONT ASCRIBE THINGS TO GOD< I LOOK AT WHAT GOD SAYS AND FOLLOW HIS COMMAND WHY DONT YOU TRY TO DO THE SAME INSTEAD OF SAYING MY GOD AND YOUR GOD AS IF THEY ARE DIFFERENT GODS YOU ARROGANT MORON
I do not murder for many reasons. First I wish to obey God. Second I do not WANT to. Third I do not want to put my family and friends through the angst of the ordeal. I could go on but since I try to love others as God loves me there are a lot of things I do not do that I am physically capable of. But once again you brilliantly missed the point.
Who says God can't or will not do something? No command holds Him back. So it is not ascribing anything to God when He Himself said He did these things. And furthermore you still did not answer the first two points.
Why could God not manifest in the flesh?
Why is it unbefitting for Him to do so and how do you know?
Now this will be the last time I ask you to keep a civil tongue. I am not sure if you are young and lack the temperment of age but mudslinging is not befitting someone who claims to worship God. If you slander me once more I will ban you for a while and give you time to think about being more careful with your words. Furthermore you and I do not worship the same God because the God of the Bible is not the god of the Qur'an.
MY DEAR RESISTINREXMUNDI
We already established that you a potential murderer but unwilling to enter into the act.
You have offered ample evidence in this regard to your own character through your approval of the murder of Mohammedan imperialism.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1934.msg8288#msg8288
However
you are now obligated to post a link to the post(s) that "....already established that you a potential murderer...." in regard to resistingrexmundi.
NOWNO OBFUSCATING. Failure to support your accusation will result in a 2 day suspension of your posting privileges.
A URL to the post can be acquired by clicking on the title at the top of the post. You are required to explain exactly how you drew your conclusion based on the content of the post(s) to which you allude.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 31, 2010, 12:29:13 PM(do see how conjecture works ? and if I take that line further I would ask. How do we know for sure you did not murder someone before.) DO WE HAVE THE PROOF OTHER THAN YOUR WORD THAT YOU NEVER MURDERED ANYONE OR SILENTLY REJOICED WHEN SOMEONE IS MURDERED?
THAT is the nature of the conjecturer to ask questions until he convinces himself of the incorrect hypothetical truth of a matter that in no way relates to the original idea or belief.
HEAR YE O ISRAEL YOUR LORD GOD IS ONE. IT DOES NOR ADD THAT THE ONE IS THREE IN ONE OR THAT THE ONE OCCASIONALLY BECOMES A MAN OR PART OF A MAN, IS GOD A SPIRIT? IS GOD A MAN? IS GOD A THE GOD? all of the above is nullifies all the bible verses that says GOD IS ONE.
You have a 2 day ban on posting Mujaheed per instructions in the following link
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1912.msg8429#msg8429
This thread, and your accusation, will be the first thread you address on your return.
Either support your accusation or admit it was contrived and false.
If you fail to do either one, but instead obfuscate, you will be banned for another 2 days.
Do not post on any other threads until you are given the go ahead.
Then after you get the go ahead, it will be per the instructions at the link above.
Quote from: Peter on November 02, 2010, 01:07:00 PM
You have a 2 day ban on posting Mujaheed per instructions in the following link
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1912.msg8429#msg8429
This thread, and your accusation, will be the first thread you address on your return.
Either support your accusation or admit it was contrived and false.
If you fail to do either one, but instead obfuscate, you will be banned for another 2 days.
Do not post on any other threads until you are given the go ahead.
Then after you get the go ahead, it will be per the instructions at the link above.
from an earlier post1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 30, 2010, 07:17:18 AM
TELL ME SOMETHING, CAN YOU COMMIT MURDER (ARE YOU CAPABLE OF COMMITTING A MURDER?)
Answer from Resistingrexmundi
Am I physically capable. Sure. My body possesses the necessary strength to facilitate the deed. But I am commanded not to. If you are trying to say God can do that but will not I will come back to my original point. Who says? Who commands God? Who tells God He cannot do what He wishes? He never said He wouldn't or couldn't manifest in the flesh. He manifested as a pillar of fire by night and a cloud by day in the Exodus. Yet we do not worship clouds or fire. Likewise we do not worship man or flesh but rather the Spirit that dwelt within that flesh giving it life and identity.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 04, 2010, 11:39:48 AM
Quote from: Peter on November 02, 2010, 01:07:00 PM
You have a 2 day ban on posting Mujaheed per instructions in the following link
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1912.msg8429#msg8429
This thread, and your accusation, will be the first thread you address on your return.
Either support your accusation or admit it was contrived and false.
If you fail to do either one, but instead obfuscate, you will be banned for another 2 days.
Do not post on any other threads until you are given the go ahead.
Then after you get the go ahead, it will be per the instructions at the link above.
from an earlier post1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 30, 2010, 07:17:18 AM
TELL ME SOMETHING, CAN YOU COMMIT MURDER (ARE YOU CAPABLE OF COMMITTING A MURDER?)
Answer from Resistingrexmundi
Am I physically capable. Sure. My body possesses the necessary strength to facilitate the deed. But I am commanded not to. If you are trying to say God can do that but will not I will come back to my original point. Who says? Who commands God? Who tells God He cannot do what He wishes? He never said He wouldn't or couldn't manifest in the flesh. He manifested as a pillar of fire by night and a cloud by day in the Exodus. Yet we do not worship clouds or fire. Likewise we do not worship man or flesh but rather the Spirit that dwelt within that flesh giving it life and identity.
And you said
"We already established that you a potential murderer but unwilling to enter into the act."
Proclaiming him a potential murderer was patently false since he said
"I do not murder for many reasons.
First I wish to obey God. Second I do not WANT to. Third I do not want to put my family and friends through the angst of the ordeal.
I could go on but since I try to love others as God loves me there are a lot of things I do not do that I am physically capable of."
All he confirmed is he has the PHYSICAL ability to. So who doesn't?
That does not make him a "potential murderer". He is Christian and thus is of the Spirit of God so that makes him the
exact opposite of being a potential murderer.
Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
As an aside, for a killing to be considered murder, requires malice.
Exactly like Mohammed's having innocent Jewish farm boys beheaded. Or the Arabian poets Mohammed had murdered, also with malice. Mohammed is the quintessential example of a murderer.
Yet you don't even "...SILENTLY REJOICED WHEN SOMEONE IS MURDERED..." but proclaim Mohammed's 7th century - Christian era - murdering as a good thing and of God.
Quote from: Peter on November 04, 2010, 01:24:34 PM
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 04, 2010, 11:39:48 AM
Quote from: Peter on November 02, 2010, 01:07:00 PM
You have a 2 day ban on posting Mujaheed per instructions in the following link
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1912.msg8429#msg8429
This thread, and your accusation, will be the first thread you address on your return.
Either support your accusation or admit it was contrived and false.
If you fail to do either one, but instead obfuscate, you will be banned for another 2 days.
Do not post on any other threads until you are given the go ahead.
Then after you get the go ahead, it will be per the instructions at the link above.
from an earlier post1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 30, 2010, 07:17:18 AM
TELL ME SOMETHING, CAN YOU COMMIT MURDER (ARE YOU CAPABLE OF COMMITTING A MURDER?)
Answer from Resistingrexmundi
Am I physically capable. Sure. My body possesses the necessary strength to facilitate the deed. But I am commanded not to. If you are trying to say God can do that but will not I will come back to my original point. Who says? Who commands God? Who tells God He cannot do what He wishes? He never said He wouldn't or couldn't manifest in the flesh. He manifested as a pillar of fire by night and a cloud by day in the Exodus. Yet we do not worship clouds or fire. Likewise we do not worship man or flesh but rather the Spirit that dwelt within that flesh giving it life and identity.
And you said
"We already established that you a potential murderer but unwilling to enter into the act."
Proclaiming him a potential murderer was patently false since he said
"I do not murder for many reasons. First I wish to obey God. Second I do not WANT to. Third I do not want to put my family and friends through the angst of the ordeal. I could go on but since I try to love others as God loves me there are a lot of things I do not do that I am physically capable of."
All he confirmed is he has the PHYSICAL ability to. So who doesn't?
That does not make him a "potential murderer".
He is Christian and thus is of the Spirit of God so that makes him the exact opposite of being a potential murderer.
Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
As an aside, for a killing to be considered murder, requires malice.
Exactly like Mohammed's having innocent Jewish farm boys beheaded. Or the Arabian poets Mohammed had murdered, also with malice. Mohammed is the quintessential example of a murderer.
Yet you don't even "...SILENTLY REJOICED WHEN SOMEONE IS MURDERED..." but proclaim Mohammed's 7th century - Christian era - murdering as a good thing and of God.
As is the case most of the time you missed the point I was trying to demonstrate, that the conjecture leads to further unfounded accusations based on the way the question is posed in the first place. We end up in a futile argument over a hypothetical question. You do realize that it all started as a hypothetical question and not an interogation of resistingrexmundi's character.
The reason I did this and in most of the thread is to demonstrate the danger of conjecture, speculation based on absurd statements and allegations.
The prophet Muhammad is not a liar, nor did he retain a pagan idol, nor did he instruct reverence for the black stone nor do we worship like the kafir (DISBELIEVERS) it is your own lack of understanding that leads you to these assumptions based on deviant scholars as I have proven over and over and over again.
I am not differing with the Book only where the book contradicts itself and I understand it to be scholars writing in there time for there time according to limited knowledge they had and subsequent translators interpreting the Bookaccording to their beliefs.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 04, 2010, 04:52:11 PM
Quote from: Peter on November 04, 2010, 01:24:34 PM
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 04, 2010, 11:39:48 AM
Quote from: Peter on November 02, 2010, 01:07:00 PM
You have a 2 day ban on posting Mujaheed per instructions in the following link
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1912.msg8429#msg8429
This thread, and your accusation, will be the first thread you address on your return.
Either support your accusation or admit it was contrived and false.
If you fail to do either one, but instead obfuscate, you will be banned for another 2 days.
Do not post on any other threads until you are given the go ahead.
Then after you get the go ahead, it will be per the instructions at the link above.
from an earlier post1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 30, 2010, 07:17:18 AM
TELL ME SOMETHING, CAN YOU COMMIT MURDER (ARE YOU CAPABLE OF COMMITTING A MURDER?)
Answer from Resistingrexmundi
Am I physically capable. Sure. My body possesses the necessary strength to facilitate the deed. But I am commanded not to. If you are trying to say God can do that but will not I will come back to my original point. Who says? Who commands God? Who tells God He cannot do what He wishes? He never said He wouldn't or couldn't manifest in the flesh. He manifested as a pillar of fire by night and a cloud by day in the Exodus. Yet we do not worship clouds or fire. Likewise we do not worship man or flesh but rather the Spirit that dwelt within that flesh giving it life and identity.
And you said
"We already established that you a potential murderer but unwilling to enter into the act."
Proclaiming him a potential murderer was patently false since he said
"I do not murder for many reasons. First I wish to obey God. Second I do not WANT to. Third I do not want to put my family and friends through the angst of the ordeal. I could go on but since I try to love others as God loves me there are a lot of things I do not do that I am physically capable of."
All he confirmed is he has the PHYSICAL ability to. So who doesn't?
That does not make him a "potential murderer".
He is Christian and thus is of the Spirit of God so that makes him the exact opposite of being a potential murderer.
Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
As an aside, for a killing to be considered murder, requires malice.
Exactly like Mohammed's having innocent Jewish farm boys beheaded. Or the Arabian poets Mohammed had murdered, also with malice. Mohammed is the quintessential example of a murderer.
Yet you don't even "...SILENTLY REJOICED WHEN SOMEONE IS MURDERED..." but proclaim Mohammed's 7th century - Christian era - murdering as a good thing and of God.
As is the case most of the time you missed the point I was trying to demonstrate, that the conjecture leads to further unfounded accusations based on the way the question is posed in the first place.
What you made was an unsupportable accusation that Resistingrexmundi was a potential murderer when he is the exact opposite. That isn't making a point.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 04, 2010, 04:52:11 PMWe end up in a futile argument over a hypothetical question. You do realize that it all started as a hypothetical question and not an interogation of resistingrexmundi's character.
Then I'll defer to him to correct me as well, if he is of the same opinion.
Your posting privileges HAVE NOT been restored. You are going to engage in some single-thread linear exchanges first. Do not post elsewhere.
I moved the remainder of our chat to "extensions of chats" because I realized you started back in doing the same thing as you have been doing. Adding a bunch of unrelated drivel that has already been thoroughly addressed.
I will leave your charge against resistingrexmundi to being between you and he.
Stick to the topic and do not embellish with more unrelated subjects or additional accusations.
While you are waiting for resisting to engage on this thread, you can post on the thread you were banned for 2 days on, for your continued obfuscation.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1912.msg8429#msg8429
You can reply to my last 2 posts on your unrelated topics on this thread, at this link.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1955.msg8489#msg8489
But please learn to how to quote posts in this forum at the following thread link, before you do anything else. Practice at that thread until you learn it. When you goof up quoting, then every time someone tries to quote you after that, their post gets goofed up. Please exercise a little good forum citizenship and responsibility.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=39.0
Muslims often make that same spurious argument that Yahweh wouldn't make the Messiah suffer and die, as if their emotion driven opinions somehow negate the scriptural and secular record of the event. But this is going not only contrary to the record but directly against the Muslims own books. The hadith tells them that prophets were unjustly killed.
And (remember) when you said, "O Musa (Moses)! We cannot endure one kind of food. So invoke your Lord for us to bring forth for us of what the earth grows, its herbs, its cucumbers, its Fum (wheat or garlic), its lentils and its onions." He said, "Would you exchange that which is better for that which is lower? Go you down to any town and you shall find what you want!" And they were covered with humiliation and misery, and they drew on themselves the Wrath of Allah. That was because they used to disbelieve the Ayat (proofs, evidence, verses, lessons, signs, revelations etc.) of Allah and killed the prophets wrongfully. That was because they disobeyed and used to transgress the bounds (in their disobedience to Allah, i.e. commit crimes and sins).
( سورة اÙ,,بÙ,رة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #61)
Indignity is put over them wherever they may be, except when under a covenant (of protection) from Allah, and from men; they have drawn on themselves the Wrath of Allah, and destruction is put over them. This is because they disbelieved in the Ayat (proofs, evidence, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allah and killed the prophets without right. This is because they disobeyed (Allah) and used to transgress beyond bounds (in Allah's disobedience, crimes and sins).
( سورة Ø¢Ù,, عÙ...ران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #112)
http://www.searchtruth.com/search.php?keyword=prophet+killed&chapter=&translator=5&search=1&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all
Yet they are prohibited from making distinctions between prophets.
And those who believe in Allah and His Messengers and make no distinction between any of them (Messengers), We shall give them their rewards; and Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
( سورة اÙ,,نساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #152)
http://www.searchtruth.com/search.php?keyword=make+no+distinction&chapter=&translator=5&search=1&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all
So why wouldn't they expect Jesus to meet the same fate as so many other prophets, as well as those who followed Jesus in the first century, and as Jesus' followers have throughout the Christian era?
Could Yahweh manifest Himself in the flesh of a man? Yes He can and did long before He manifest Himself as Jesus Christ. Yahweh appeared as a man in the flesh to Abraham and Abraham brought Him water to wash His feet, which He did, and Abraham brought Him some food and drink, in which Yahweh partook.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2358.0
The straw man argument that Mohammed's followers often make to contradict most any truth found in the Scriptures is that "God doesn't need ...." as if anyone would suggest that He does. Isn't that funny? Everyone knows that God doesn't need anything. The fact that Yahweh doesn't need food, does not preclude Him manifesting Himself as a man and eating some food, just as He did with Abraham.