In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful , and peace be upon Mohamed Ibn Abdullah, and the rest of the messangers
http://www.youtube.com/embed/Sec_4ChFVbI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB81iSY11V8&feature=related
Allah be praised became A MOON ? let us hear the joke of the century by the pagan worshipers . These pagans says that Allah lord of the world has become nothing but tiny Moon , and they use fake claims to help them with their joke , but truth must be told . Anyone who has mind will laugh at this simple mind of this Pagan crusaders Nazis .
Allah the one and only says :
"And from among His Signs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Do not bow down (prostrate) to the sun nor to the moon, but only bow down (prostrate) to "Allah" Who created them, if you (really) worship Him."
[Noble Quran 41:37]
As you see this pagan believers did not read the holy quran as we do when we are debating such lit children. They claim there was an idol called Allah in the Holy house of Kaabah in Mecca the Kingdom of Heaven . :D Lol what are they ?
Than what is the importance of Moon to muslims ? Do you think you are first to ask such question , those who live in lowlife .
"They ask you about the new moons. Say: These are signs
to mark fixed periods of time for mankind and for the pilgrimage."
[Noble Quran 2:189]
As you see to what marked in red it is used as marks or signs for time of preayer amd pilgrimage , not only the muslims were using it even in the christian and jew used but what happen ? as you know they changed the word of Allah and made fun of the Abrahmic religon for the Athiest . Shame on you
Go to any arab chrisitan and ask him to tell the verse of Gospol according to john Ch13 Ver16 " For god so loved the world" and ask him to read in arabic you hear the word Allah .
As been mentioned since the 20 century that word Elohim (ELOAH without the plural of respect) is the same as Allah , or the Armenine Aalah
"The Aramaic version of the Gospels, which is said to be the language Jesus Christ (Ppuh) spoke, the Aramaic Gospels uses the root "hl0" (read from right to left) in place of the English word "God" used in the English translation. The pronunciation of "hl0" is "AaLaH" or "Alah"*. Jesus Christ (Ppuh) called God, "AaLaH. The BLB (Blue Letter Bible) links the Hebrew word "'eloahh" directly to the Arabic word "Allah", in its root and its meaning as "The True God", it even shows the word "'eloahh" in the Arabic alphabets, which is "Allah", for those of you who read Arabic. As a matter of fact, it also shows the word "'eloahh" in the Aramaic alphabets, which is "AaLaH", and it looks almost the same as in the Arabic alphabets. "(bibleperversion.com)
As you see all of this are semtic lanuage that share the same roots , so Nazis did jesus speak enligsh or Greek ? The answer is No for sure.Romans has transleted alot of names such as Simon and Sual to sound like Nazis (Wesntern) Simon i am sure most of do not know anyrthing about that name , Simon is name that Jesus called his first apostols, the one you call Peter . The word peter came from the word Greek word Peterous which mean Rock . As you see jesus called him once that he is sturbon like rock , so in 4 century the Pagans has changed his name to Peter . And if you do not know this . Know it now YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO TRANSALTED PEOPLE'S NAME AS YOU WANT(Taking from Ahemd deteed God bless him debate agains the pagans). Got memeorized (Axiel)
Sources :
1 - http://godallah.com/moon_god.php
2 - http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/147232
3- http://bibleperversion.com/islam/chapter11.asp?page=1
4- http://www.plim.org/1Allah.html
Hello SalahDin and welcome back. Been a long time.
I would appreciate if you respond to my replies to your post in order so we can keep things organized.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 05, 2011, 02:22:07 AM
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful , and peace be upon Mohamed Ibn Abdullah, and the rest of the messangers
http://www.youtube.com/embed/Sec_4ChFVbI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB81iSY11V8&feature=related
Allah be praised became A MOON ? let us hear the joke of the century by the pagan worshipers . These pagans says that Allah lord of the world has become nothing but tiny Moon , and they use fake claims to help them with their joke , but truth must be told . Anyone who has mind will laugh at this simple mind of this Pagan crusaders Nazis .
Allah the one and only says :
"And from among His Signs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Do not bow down (prostrate) to the sun nor to the moon, but only bow down (prostrate) to "Allah" Who created them, if you (really) worship Him."
[Noble Quran 41:37]
As you see this pagan believers did not read the holy quran as we do when we are debating such lit children. They claim there was an idol called Allah in the Holy house of Kaabah in Mecca the Kingdom of Heaven . :D Lol what are they ?
1. Are you saying that Mohammed's tribe the Quraish did not worship a deity named "Allah" when they worshiped the moon, sun, stars, planets and jinn, around the Kaaba, before Mohammed?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1240.0
2. Are you denying there were 360 idols kept in and around the Kaaba?
3. If you are denying that one of their deities was named "Allah" are you saying that Mohammed invented the name?
4. If one of their deities WAS named "Allah" then which one was it if not the moon?
5. Are you saying they were monotheists?
6. Please tell us who Lat, 'Uzza, and Manat were if not the rest of Allah's family.
7. Since so many of them, including Mohammed's father, were named "Abdullah", or "slave of Allah", then who would you say the Quraish were slaves of?
Please do not add more threads to this forum, or expand the subjects replied to, until we have discussed the ones you already put in.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 05, 2011, 02:22:07 AM
Than what is the importance of Moon to muslims ? Do you think you are first to ask such question , those who live in lowlife .
Everyone understands that Muslims themselves, don't believe that they worship the moon, but rather the one true God.
But why is unreasonable to ask about the importance of the moon in Islam? Let's look at the
evidence.
Since the moon god was considered to be the most powerful deity in Mohammed's Quraish tribe's Arabian Star Family worship it would seem no coincidence that the Islamic calendar is a lunar calendar.
Muslims all over the world prostrate themselves five times a day toward the black stone that the Quraish pagans venerated as representing their moon god.
Crescent moons adorn the tops of mosques.
Crescent moons decorate Islamic State's national flags.
"Fasting" is done during the month which begins and ends with the appearance of the crescent moon in the sky.
Even the favorite shout of Mohammedan suicide murderers - ALLAHU AKBAR - means "Allah is the greatER" or greatEST, which for the Quraish moon god worshipers meant that the moon was the most powerful of all of the Arabian Star Family deities that they worshiped.
Mohammed even mentioned the rest of "Allah"s celestial family.
Sura 53. 19 Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza, 20 And another, the third (goddess), Manat?
The Quraish worshiped their moon, sun, star, and jinn priest and priestess by circumambulating the kaaba 7 times, that they built to house 360 idols (only the black stone of which remains), running back and forth between Safa and Marwah to venerate the most important priest and priestess of their Arabian jinn religion, for which their were idols were on those two hills (Mohammed's father's thing)
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1784.0
They traveled to the other stations of the Hajj, threw stones at Satan, sacrificed animals, and basically did all the things that Muslims still do today.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj_umrah.htm
So how is it you don't understand how we would see the relationship between the Quraish's moon, sun, star and jinn worship, and the rituals that you use to worship, and the name that you use for God?
In fact,
what reason do you have to believe that your rituals are anything other than thinly repackaged pagan star family worship, EXCEPT for ONE MAN in the 7th century declaring he was speaking for "Allah", when he declared it was then OK for Muslims to practice right alongside the pagans?
Asem told us that he said to Uns bin Malek, a companion of Mohammed, “You were hating to encompass around the Safa and Marwa.†He answered, “Yes, because it was one of the pagan rites of Jahiliyah until Allah gave a verse that the Safa and Marwa are the rites of Allah. (Sahih al-Bukhari 2 Book 26 710)
Narrated 'Asim: I asked Anas bin Malik: "
Did you use to dislike to perform Tawaf between Safa and Marwa?" He said, "Yes, as it was of the ceremonies of the days of the Pre-lslamic period of ignorance, till Allah revealed: 'Verily! (The two mountains) As-Safa and Al-Marwa are among the symbols of Allah. It is therefore no sin for him who performs the pilgrimage to the Ka'ba, or performs 'Umra, to perform Tawaf between them.' " (2.158) (Sahih al-Bukhari 2 Book 26 710)
You engage in these rituals 1200 kilometers from THE Holy Land in Mecca Saudi Arabia of all places,
for no other reason, than because Mohammed said it was OK for his followers to engage in these pagan rituals.
A self-proclaimed "prophet" with no fulfilled prophecy, that never performed a single miracle, that not a single person ever witnessed "Allah" or Gabriel give a single revelation to, or witnessed his flying donkey-mule.
Muslims joining the pagans and engaging in these rituals shoulder to shoulder right up until the year before the last Hajj of Mohammed
Sahih Bukhari Volume 2, Book 26, Number 689: Narrated Abu Huraira:
In the year prior to the last Hajj of the Prophet when Allahs Apostle made Abu Bakr the leader of the pilgrims, the latter (Abu Bakr) sent me in the company of a group of people to make a public announcement: '
No pagan is allowed to perform Hajj after this year, and
no naked person is allowed to perform Tawaf of the Kaba.'
The Muslims kicking the pagans out of their own ritual!
Muslims even performing Tawaf naked, since there would have been no need to prohibit nakedness, since the pagans were already thrown out!
You see, my friend, wouldn't it seem this isn't the "joke of the century", but rather the joke of the last 1400 years. A reasonable person can see that Mohammed, rather than ending the "period of ignorance", began a 1400 year period of ignorance in his followers unto today. For a 21st century person to follow Mohammed, and his thinly repackaged Arabian paganism, they must necessarily remain ignorant to scripture, history, archaeology and geography.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=56.0
I can understand that it was one thing for the ignorant and illiterate 7th century reprobates to follow him so they didn't have to work but could be cut in on the 4/5 of the property stolen from others, wives and children prisoners of the vanquished to rape, and old women to sell off into slavery.
But I just can't see what's in it for Mohammed's followers today - except an eternity of suffering.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where
the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=12.0
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 05, 2011, 02:22:07 AM
"They ask you about the new moons. Say: These are signs to mark fixed periods of time for mankind and for the pilgrimage."
[Noble Quran 2:189]
As you see to what marked in red it is used as marks or signs for time of preayer amd pilgrimage , not only the muslims were using it even in the christian and jew used but what happen ?
Millions still go on "pilgimage" to THE Holy Land, though not on the pagan Arabian moon god worshipers calendar, and certainly not as a carnal article of our faith, because YHWH is omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient. We don't have to prostrate to the Quraish moon god idol or to it's black box, for YHWH to hear our prayers.
Here's a Google search of it. (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&expIds=17259,26767,28057&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=pilgrimage+holy+land&cp=13&pf=p&sclient=psy&aq=0sx&aqi=&aql=&oq=pilgimage+hol&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=83f87efc6f926f13)
That is millions go on pilgrimage to
THE Holy Land, to see the history and archaeology regarding the ONE TRUE GOD and His people come alive,
NOT pilgrimage to a place of pagan Arabian star family and jinn worship, 1200 kilometers southeast of the Holy Land, to a town in Arabia called Mecca, that there is no evidence of which it even existed before the 4th century AD.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=56.0
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 05, 2011, 02:22:07 AMas you know they changed the word of Allah and made fun of the Abrahmic religon for the Athiest . Shame on you
Go to any arab chrisitan and ask him to tell the verse of Gospol according to john Ch13 Ver16 " For god so loved the world" and ask him to read in arabic you hear the word Allah .
Indeed it is a tragedy that Arabic speaking Jews and Christians inadvertently blaspheme YHWH by invoking the pagan Arabian name for God, when they wish to express "the God". However I am confident that in this information age they will increasingly understand their error. A shame that the Hebrew names weren't used in the Arabic Bibles.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 05, 2011, 02:22:07 AM
As been mentioned since the 20 century that word Elohim (ELOAH without the plural of respect) is the same as Allah , or the Armenine Aalah
Unfortunately a late doctrine arose in Judaism that suggested that God's
NAME YHWH was too sacred to write or say. God's name is, and will always be
YHWH as it occurs almost 7,000 times in scripture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton#In_later_Judaism
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1728.0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slLBam06iyg
So they SUBSTITUTED with descriptive TITLES in their later scriptures including "Elohim" which is a word that is used for the God, but also for a god, as in pagan gods.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elohim
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 05, 2011, 02:22:07 AM
"The Aramaic version of the Gospels, which is said to be the language Jesus Christ (Ppuh) spoke, the Aramaic Gospels uses the root "hl0" (read from right to left) in place of the English word "God" used in the English translation. The pronunciation of "hl0" is "AaLaH" or "Alah"*. Jesus Christ (Ppuh) called God, "AaLaH. The BLB (Blue Letter Bible) links the Hebrew word "'eloahh" directly to the Arabic word "Allah", in its root and its meaning as "The True God", ..........
But as I already said it is also used in the Old Testament for pagan deities.
"The word Elohim' occurs more than 2500 times in the Hebrew Bible, with meanings ranging from "god" in a general sense (as in Exodus 12:12, where it describes "the gods of Egypt"), to a specific god (e.g., 1 Kings 11:33, where it describes Chemosh "the god of Moab", or the frequent references to Yahweh as the "elohim" of Israel), to demons, seraphim, and other supernatural beings, to the spirits of the dead brought up at the behest of King Saul in 1 Samuel 28:13, and even to kings and prophets (e.g., Exodus 4:16).[8] The phrase bene elohim, usually translated "sons of God", has an exact parallel in Ugaritic and Phoenician texts, referring to the council of the gods.[9]"
"The word Elohim' occurs more than 2500 times [AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR YHWH] in the [LATER] Hebrew Bible....."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elohim#Hebrew_Bible
God's
NAME will always be
YHWH which means "
I AM".
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1728.0
The Messiah's Hebrew name is Yahshua or Yeshua which means "YHWH saves" or rescues or delivers.
So what does the Messiah deliver us from?
What does mankind need rescue from more than our own sin?
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 05, 2011, 02:22:07 AM......... it even shows the word "'eloahh" in the Arabic alphabets, which is "Allah", for those of you who read Arabic. As a matter of fact, it also shows the word "'eloahh" in the Aramaic alphabets, which is "AaLaH", and it looks almost the same as in the Arabic alphabets. "(bibleperversion.com)
As you see all of this are semtic lanuage that share the same roots , so Nazis did jesus speak enligsh or Greek ? The answer is No for sure.Romans has transleted alot of names such as Simon and Sual to sound like Nazis (Wesntern) Simon i am sure most of do not know anyrthing about that name , Simon is name that Jesus called his first apostols, the one you call Peter . The word peter came from the word Greek word Peterous which mean Rock . As you see jesus called him once that he is sturbon like rock , so in 4 century the Pagans has changed his name to Peter . And if you do not know this . Know it now YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO TRANSALTED PEOPLE'S NAME AS YOU WANT(Taking from Ahemd deteed God bless him debate agains the pagans). Got memeorized (Axiel)
Sources :
1 - http://godallah.com/moon_god.php
2 - http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/147232
Poor fellow doesn't even seem to realize that the name YHWH - which occurs nearly 7,000 times in scripture - was LATER substituted by the title Elohim (as well as others).
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 05, 2011, 02:22:07 AM
3- http://bibleperversion.com/islam/chapter11.asp?page=1
4- http://www.plim.org/1Allah.html
Quote from: Peter on January 05, 2011, 07:05:57 AM
Hello SalahDin and welcome back. Been a long time.
I would appreciate if you respond to my replies to your post in order so we can keep things organized.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 05, 2011, 02:22:07 AM
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful , and peace be upon Mohamed Ibn Abdullah, and the rest of the messangers
http://www.youtube.com/embed/Sec_4ChFVbI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB81iSY11V8&feature=related
Allah be praised became A MOON ? let us hear the joke of the century by the pagan worshipers . These pagans says that Allah lord of the world has become nothing but tiny Moon , and they use fake claims to help them with their joke , but truth must be told . Anyone who has mind will laugh at this simple mind of this Pagan crusaders Nazis .
Allah the one and only says :
"And from among His Signs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Do not bow down (prostrate) to the sun nor to the moon, but only bow down (prostrate) to "Allah" Who created them, if you (really) worship Him."
[Noble Quran 41:37]
As you see this pagan believers did not read the holy quran as we do when we are debating such lit children. They claim there was an idol called Allah in the Holy house of Kaabah in Mecca the Kingdom of Heaven . :D Lol what are they ?
1. Are you saying that Mohammed's tribe the Quraish did not worship a deity named "Allah" when they worshiped the moon, sun, stars, planets and jinn, around the Kaaba, before Mohammed?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1240.0
2. Are you denying there were 360 idols kept in and around the Kaaba?
3. If you are denying that one of their deities was named "Allah" are you saying that Mohammed invented the name?
4. If one of their deities WAS named "Allah" then which one was it if not the moon?
5. Are you saying they were monotheists?
6. Please tell us who Lat, 'Uzza, and Manat were if not the rest of Allah's family.
7. Since so many of them, including Mohammed's father, were named "Abdullah", or "slave of Allah", then who would you say the Quraish were slaves of?
Please do not add more threads to this forum, or expand the subjects replied to, until we have discussed the ones you already put in.
1- I am not denying that they worshiped Allah as diety . They worshiped Allah as the Creator , but they worshpied with him other deities as well , The idols around the Kaaba .
2- Mohamed PEACE BE UPON HIM did not invented the name , the name Allah was used long time when Ishamel PEACE BE UPON HIM come to Mecca The Holy site . tribs that where before Qurish was making idols for there God men , as you do now in westerns socity for those of who are Dear . Later generation after generation pased until the man came who said that we need to worship them to make us close to Allah :
"
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
The revelation of the Scripture is from Allah, the Mighty, the Wise. (1) Lo! We have revealed the Scripture unto thee (Muhammad) with truth; so worship Allah, making religion pure for Him (only). (2) Surely pure religion is for Allah only. And those who choose protecting friends beside Him (say): We worship them only that they may bring us near unto Allah. Lo! Allah will judge between them concerning that wherein they differ. Lo! Allah guideth not him who is a liar, an ingrate. (3) "
Lat.Uzza and Manat were Good Woman as said above later after their death people start worshping them , And yes they were Monothesim before it . people believe they were angles , and at that time there people started to believe that angles are female , because of it sound like female name Malaeka , so they were considered as angles go read it no Wikipedia if you want :
"The name was previously used by pagan Meccans as a reference to the
creator deity, possibly the supreme deity in pre-Islamic Arabia"(Wikipedia)
Quote from: Peter on January 05, 2011, 07:28:44 AM
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 05, 2011, 02:22:07 AM
Than what is the importance of Moon to muslims ? Do you think you are first to ask such question , those who live in lowlife .
Everyone understands that Muslims themselves, don't believe that they worship the moon, but rather the one true God.
But why is unreasonable to ask about the importance of the moon in Islam? Let's look at the evidence.
Since the moon god was considered to be the most powerful deity in Mohammed's Quraish tribe's Arabian Star Family worship it would seem no coincidence that the Islamic calendar is a lunar calendar.
Muslims all over the world prostrate themselves five times a day toward the black stone that the Quraish pagans venerated as representing their moon god.
Crescent moons adorn the tops of mosques.
Crescent moons decorate Islamic State's national flags.
"Fasting" is done during the month which begins and ends with the appearance of the crescent moon in the sky.
Even the favorite shout of Mohammedan suicide murderers - ALLAHU AKBAR - means "Allah is the greatER" or greatEST, which for the Quraish moon god worshipers meant that the moon was the most powerful of all of the Arabian Star Family deities that they worshiped.
Mohammed even mentioned the rest of "Allah"s celestial family.
Sura 53. 19 Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza, 20 And another, the third (goddess), Manat?
The Quraish worshiped their moon, sun, star, and jinn priest and priestess by circumambulating the kaaba 7 times, that they built to house 360 idols (only the black stone of which remains), running back and forth between Safa and Marwah to venerate the most important priest and priestess of their Arabian jinn religion, for which their were idols were on those two hills (Mohammed's father's thing)
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1784.0
They traveled to the other stations of the Hajj, threw stones at Satan, sacrificed animals, and basically did all the things that Muslims still do today.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj_umrah.htm
So how is it you don't understand how we would see the relationship between the Quraish's moon, sun, star and jinn worship, and the rituals that you use to worship, and the name that you use for God?
In fact, what reason do you have to believe that your rituals are anything other than thinly repackaged pagan star family worship, EXCEPT for ONE MAN in the 7th century declaring he was speaking for "Allah", when he declared it was then OK for Muslims to practice right alongside the pagans?
Asem told us that he said to Uns bin Malek, a companion of Mohammed, “You were hating to encompass around the Safa and Marwa.†He answered, “Yes, because it was one of the pagan rites of Jahiliyah until Allah gave a verse that the Safa and Marwa are the rites of Allah. (Sahih al-Bukhari 2 Book 26 710)
Narrated 'Asim: I asked Anas bin Malik: "Did you use to dislike to perform Tawaf between Safa and Marwa?" He said, "Yes, as it was of the ceremonies of the days of the Pre-lslamic period of ignorance, till Allah revealed: 'Verily! (The two mountains) As-Safa and Al-Marwa are among the symbols of Allah. It is therefore no sin for him who performs the pilgrimage to the Ka'ba, or performs 'Umra, to perform Tawaf between them.' " (2.158) (Sahih al-Bukhari 2 Book 26 710)
You engage in these rituals 1200 kilometers from THE Holy Land in Mecca Saudi Arabia of all places, for no other reason, than because Mohammed said it was OK for his followers to engage in these pagan rituals.
A self-proclaimed "prophet" with no fulfilled prophecy, that never performed a single miracle, that not a single person ever witnessed "Allah" or Gabriel give a single revelation to, or witnessed his flying donkey-mule.
Muslims joining the pagans and engaging in these rituals shoulder to shoulder right up until the year before the last Hajj of Mohammed
Sahih Bukhari Volume 2, Book 26, Number 689: Narrated Abu Huraira:
In the year prior to the last Hajj of the Prophet when Allahs Apostle made Abu Bakr the leader of the pilgrims, the latter (Abu Bakr) sent me in the company of a group of people to make a public announcement: 'No pagan is allowed to perform Hajj after this year, and no naked person is allowed to perform Tawaf of the Kaba.'
The Muslims kicking the pagans out of their own ritual!
Muslims even performing Tawaf naked, since there would have been no need to prohibit nakedness, since the pagans were already thrown out!
You see, my friend, wouldn't it seem this isn't the "joke of the century", but rather the joke of the last 1400 years. A reasonable person can see that Mohammed, rather than ending the "period of ignorance", began a 1400 year period of ignorance in his followers unto today. For a 21st century person to follow Mohammed, and his thinly repackaged Arabian paganism, they must necessarily remain ignorant to scripture, history, archaeology and geography.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=56.0
I can understand that it was one thing for the ignorant and illiterate 7th century reprobates to follow him so they didn't have to work but could be cut in on the 4/5 of the property stolen from others, wives and children prisoners of the vanquished to rape, and old women to sell off into slavery.
But I just can't see what's in it for Mohammed's followers today - except an eternity of suffering.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=12.0
I never said you do? and the quot above(mine) are for those who think they were the first to ask such question , people were asking before you .
lunar calendar was used by Christian and jews before , not only muslims used it , and that has nothing to do with it, God gave a mind to think about it , if we used the sun ? does the sun become like cresent as so we could Know what is it for , tell who do you think we will now what is the time for sure to fast or pray. As Allah said himself :
l
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
"He it is Who appointed the sun a splendour and the moon a light, and measured for her stages, that ye might know the number of the years, and the reckoning. Allah created not (all) that save in truth. He detaileth the revelations for people who have knowledge. (5) Lo! in the difference of day and night and all that Allah hath created in the heavens and the earth are portents, verily, for folk who ward off (evil). "
"Tracing the origins of ancient gods is often tenuous. If the name Hubal is related to an Aramaic word for spirit, as suggested by Philip K. Hitti,[1] then Hubal may have come from the north of Arabia." (wikipedia )
You speak of the Black stone as something holier than Kaaba , We Faced the Kaaba not for the black stone . Allah Akabr is used in bible , which mean God is the Great :
ehold, God is great, and we know him not; the number of his years is unsearchable. john 36:26
For the LORD is a great God, and a great King above all gods. Psalm 95:3
Behold, God is great, and we know him not - That is, we cannot fully comprehend him; see the notes at Job 11:7-9.
As you see every religon believe that their god is Greator than that of other religon . God is Great was used when these pagan barabrens were Crusading the Holyland , killing , muslims,Orthodox christian, and Burining jews .
It has nothing to do with Hubal .
Kick them , eh? We did not kicked until they kicked us from Mecca to Madian after killing muslms and beat them daily . Secondaly , when Mohamed PEACE BE UPON HIM conqured Mecca they Holy city , he Forgive them and most od them converted .
Joke of 1400 ? Well you are wrong , because it old , and Allah himself answerd it before , not because they said we worship them , because they said why it is important .
Mohamed PEACE BE UPON HIM had enlighted the world with science , not as Church who look to science as infidily and an evil satamn work , when muslim were advancing they said it was from satan works , hhaha funny , . readf about you own dark age and the mystrey of the bible instead of looking to other people "mistakes" ( it is for you not for us ) . I will speak abou this matter later in spereated topic .
And can you please , stop repeating the same answr for the same question , Next week i will post another Topic .
Quote from: Peter on January 05, 2011, 08:27:18 AM
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 05, 2011, 02:22:07 AMas you know they changed the word of Allah and made fun of the Abrahmic religon for the Athiest . Shame on you
Go to any arab chrisitan and ask him to tell the verse of Gospol according to john Ch13 Ver16 " For god so loved the world" and ask him to read in arabic you hear the word Allah .
Indeed it is a tragedy that Arabic speaking Jews and Christians inadvertently blaspheme YHWH by invoking the pagan Arabian name for God, when they wish to express "the God". However I am confident that in this information age they will increasingly understand their error. A shame that the Hebrew names weren't used in the Arabic Bibles.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 05, 2011, 02:22:07 AM
As been mentioned since the 20 century that word Elohim (ELOAH without the plural of respect) is the same as Allah , or the Armenine Aalah
Unfortunately a late doctrine arose in Judaism that suggested that God's NAME YHWH was too sacred to write or say. God's name is, and will always be YHWH as it occurs almost 7,000 times in scripture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton#In_later_Judaism
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1728.0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slLBam06iyg
So they SUBSTITUTED with descriptive TITLES in their later scriptures including "Elohim" which is a word that is used for the God, but also for a god, as in pagan gods.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elohim
AS said above that Allah is not a pagan god , and by the way , those religon , were from mid east not from europe . So they reach them before Mohamed PEACE BE UPON HIM be existed .
a late Doctrine ? as if the one that exist to day is the right one , your religon is nothing but came in jews and the pagan roman .
You understanding about arabic and herbew is lit . Allah can not be translated to God , because it could became like Godess or add S to end to became gods , the word Alah is god in englsih the same for hebrew word Eloh which mean God , so the word Alah in arabic could be used for greeks gods . Aalah is Allah in arabic , if you wan to hear it go watch the moive about jesus PEACE BE UPON HIM , Your version of course , and you will hear him saying when he is on the cross , Aalah .
Quote from: Peter on January 05, 2011, 09:16:02 AM
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 05, 2011, 02:22:07 AM
"The Aramaic version of the Gospels, which is said to be the language Jesus Christ (Ppuh) spoke, the Aramaic Gospels uses the root "hl0" (read from right to left) in place of the English word "God" used in the English translation. The pronunciation of "hl0" is "AaLaH" or "Alah"*. Jesus Christ (Ppuh) called God, "AaLaH. The BLB (Blue Letter Bible) links the Hebrew word "'eloahh" directly to the Arabic word "Allah", in its root and its meaning as "The True God", ..........
But as I already said it is also used in the Old Testament for pagan deities.
"The word Elohim' occurs more than 2500 times in the Hebrew Bible, with meanings ranging from "god" in a general sense (as in Exodus 12:12, where it describes "the gods of Egypt"), to a specific god (e.g., 1 Kings 11:33, where it describes Chemosh "the god of Moab", or the frequent references to Yahweh as the "elohim" of Israel), to demons, seraphim, and other supernatural beings, to the spirits of the dead brought up at the behest of King Saul in 1 Samuel 28:13, and even to kings and prophets (e.g., Exodus 4:16).[8] The phrase bene elohim, usually translated "sons of God", has an exact parallel in Ugaritic and Phoenician texts, referring to the council of the gods.[9]"
"The word Elohim' occurs more than 2500 times [AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR YHWH] in the [LATER] Hebrew Bible....."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elohim#Hebrew_Bible
God's NAME will always be YHWH which means "I AM".
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1728.0
The Messiah's Hebrew name is Yahshua or Yeshua which means "YHWH saves" or rescues or delivers.
So what does the Messiah deliver us from?
What does mankind need rescue from more than our own sin?
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 05, 2011, 02:22:07 AM......... it even shows the word "'eloahh" in the Arabic alphabets, which is "Allah", for those of you who read Arabic. As a matter of fact, it also shows the word "'eloahh" in the Aramaic alphabets, which is "AaLaH", and it looks almost the same as in the Arabic alphabets. "(bibleperversion.com)
As you see all of this are semtic lanuage that share the same roots , so Nazis did jesus speak enligsh or Greek ? The answer is No for sure.Romans has transleted alot of names such as Simon and Sual to sound like Nazis (Wesntern) Simon i am sure most of do not know anyrthing about that name , Simon is name that Jesus called his first apostols, the one you call Peter . The word peter came from the word Greek word Peterous which mean Rock . As you see jesus called him once that he is sturbon like rock , so in 4 century the Pagans has changed his name to Peter . And if you do not know this . Know it now YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO TRANSALTED PEOPLE'S NAME AS YOU WANT(Taking from Ahemd deteed God bless him debate agains the pagans). Got memeorized (Axiel)
Sources :
1 - http://godallah.com/moon_god.php
2 - http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/147232
Poor fellow doesn't even seem to realize that the name YHWH - which occurs nearly 7,000 times in scripture - was LATER substituted by the title Elohim (as well as others).
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 05, 2011, 02:22:07 AM
3- http://bibleperversion.com/islam/chapter11.asp?page=1
4- http://www.plim.org/1Allah.html
I Do not know why you are repeating it many time i have answerd it above .
I think you are the poor for not knowing the history behind you fake sect of religion .
substituted ? which mean changed have not you read bibe when God said :
"Do not add to these words lest He reprove you and you be proved a liar." â€" Proverbs 30.6.
I pray for to be find the light ,
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 06, 2011, 02:05:44 PM
Aalah is Allah in arabic , if you wan to hear it go watch the moive about jesus PEACE BE UPON HIM , Your version of course , and you will hear him saying when he is on the cross , Aalah .
Sorry but if you had watched the special features you would have known that the guy responsible for translating the script used arabic to fill out the Aramaic because first century Aramaic is a dead language. And Jesus said Eli, Eli, on the cross. Eli means "My God". That is why Elijah's name literally means "My God is I Am" or "My God is Yah".
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 06, 2011, 02:12:31 PM
I Do not know why you are repeating it many time i have answerd it above .
You didn't answer anything.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 06, 2011, 02:12:31 PMI think you are the poor for not knowing the history behind you fake sect of religion .
substituted ? which mean changed have not you read bibe when God said :
"Do not add to these words lest He reprove you and you be proved a liar." â€" Proverbs 30.6.
I pray for to be find the light ,
Look at the first reply to your thread again.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 05, 2011, 02:22:07 AM
As you see this pagan believers did not read the holy quran as we do when we are debating such lit children. They claim there was an idol called Allah in the Holy house of Kaabah in Mecca the Kingdom of Heaven . :D Lol what are they ?
Why not respond to each point separately? That's why I numbered them.
1. Are you saying that Mohammed's tribe the Quraish did not worship a deity named "Allah" when they worshiped the moon, sun, stars, planets and jinn, around the Kaaba, before Mohammed?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1240.0
2. Are you denying there were 360 idols kept in and around the Kaaba?
3. If you are denying that one of their deities was named "Allah" are you saying that Mohammed invented the name?
4. If one of their deities WAS named "Allah" then which one was it if not the moon?
5. Are you saying they were monotheists?
6. Please tell us who Lat, 'Uzza, and Manat were if not the rest of Allah's family.
7. Since so many of them, including Mohammed's father, were named "Abdullah", or "slave of Allah", then who would you say the Quraish were slaves of?
Maybe this will help.
Loas Bin Hagar, the Arabian poet of the pre-Islam period, said:
"I swear by Ellat and al-Uzza and all who follow their faith, and in Allah, Allah is greater than they."
That's why the pagans said "Allah Akbar" or "Allah is the greatEST"
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#crying_out
Quote from: resistingrexmundi on January 06, 2011, 02:15:08 PM
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 06, 2011, 02:05:44 PM
Aalah is Allah in arabic , if you wan to hear it go watch the moive about jesus PEACE BE UPON HIM , Your version of course , and you will hear him saying when he is on the cross , Aalah .
Sorry but if you had watched the special features you would have known that the guy responsible for translating the script used arabic to fill out the Aramaic because first century Aramaic is a dead language. And Jesus said Eli, Eli, on the cross. Eli means "My God". That is why Elijah's name literally means "My God is I Am" or "My God is Yah".
I did not need to watch the specialy features , and as i know Allah is not pronounced they way he did it , he said it cleary Aalah , not Allah which is an arabic . I post above already :
"The Aramaic version of the Gospels, which is said to be the language Jesus Christ (Ppuh) spoke, the Aramaic Gospels uses the root "hl0" (read from right to left) in place of the English word "God" used in the English translation. The pronunciation of "hl0" is "AaLaH" or "Alah"*. Jesus Christ (Ppuh) called God, "AaLaH"* "(bibleperversion.com).
But let say , i am wrong , and you are right . What is about when say Ahmed ? lol . Now go and say "he guy responsible for translating the script used arabic to fill out the Aramaic because first century Aramaic is a dead language"
Quote from: Peter on January 07, 2011, 11:31:58 AM
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 06, 2011, 02:12:31 PM
I Do not know why you are repeating it many time i have answerd it above .
You didn't answer anything.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 06, 2011, 02:12:31 PMI think you are the poor for not knowing the history behind you fake sect of religion .
substituted ? which mean changed have not you read bibe when God said :
"Do not add to these words lest He reprove you and you be proved a liar." â€" Proverbs 30.6.
I pray for to be find the light ,
Look at the first reply to your thread again.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 05, 2011, 02:22:07 AM
As you see this pagan believers did not read the holy quran as we do when we are debating such lit children. They claim there was an idol called Allah in the Holy house of Kaabah in Mecca the Kingdom of Heaven . :D Lol what are they ?
Why not respond to each point separately? That's why I numbered them.
1. Are you saying that Mohammed's tribe the Quraish did not worship a deity named "Allah" when they worshiped the moon, sun, stars, planets and jinn, around the Kaaba, before Mohammed?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1240.0
2. Are you denying there were 360 idols kept in and around the Kaaba?
3. If you are denying that one of their deities was named "Allah" are you saying that Mohammed invented the name?
4. If one of their deities WAS named "Allah" then which one was it if not the moon?
5. Are you saying they were monotheists?
6. Please tell us who Lat, 'Uzza, and Manat were if not the rest of Allah's family.
7. Since so many of them, including Mohammed's father, were named "Abdullah", or "slave of Allah", then who would you say the Quraish were slaves of?
Maybe this will help.
Loas Bin Hagar, the Arabian poet of the pre-Islam period, said:
"I swear by Ellat and al-Uzza and all who follow their faith, and in Allah, Allah is greater than they."
That's why the pagans said "Allah Akbar" or "Allah is the greatEST"
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#crying_out
I did not answered anything that good joke of your as you know , all of your answers are linked togather . Here from my 1st reply :
I am not denying that they worshiped Allah as diety . They worshiped Allah as the Creator , but they worshpied with him other deities as well , The idols around the Kaaba .
2- Mohamed PEACE BE UPON HIM did not invented the name , the name Allah was used long time when Ishamel PEACE BE UPON HIM come to Mecca The Holy site . tribs that where before Qurish was making idols for there God(I ment good) men , as you do now in westerns socity for those of who are Dear . Later generation after generation pased until the man came who said that we need to worship them to make us close to Allah .
Lat.Uzza and Manat were Good Woman as said above later after their death people start worshping them , And yes they were Monothesim before it . people believe they were angles , and at that time there people started to believe that angles are female , because of it sound like female name Malaeka , so they were considered as angles go read it no Wikipedia if you want
There is only one that i forgot , which is number 4 : Hubal was the moon Good not Allah .That is you answer
About the poet ? I repeat many time , that they were pagans , not muslims , neither i am defending them . ok . Anyway about Allah Akabar which mean Allah is Great . Everyone belive that there God is Greator than any , as said abvoe , but it seems you did not read any thing . All of the pagans looked to Allah is Creator as said in my posts :
"The name was previously used by pagan Meccans as a reference to the creator deity, possibly the supreme deity in pre-Islamic Arabia"(Wikipedia)
Also i post this in my repelys , which is fromt bible :
ehold, God is great, and we know him not; the number of his years is unsearchable. john 36:26
For the LORD is a great God, and a great King above all gods. Psalm 95:3
Behold, God is great, and we know him not - That is, we cannot fully comprehend him; see the notes at Job 11:7-9.
As Jesus PEACE BE UPON HIM said :
"They have ears, but they hear not; neither is there [any] breath in their mouths " Psalm 135:17
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 07:50:38 AM
Quote from: Peter on January 07, 2011, 11:31:58 AM
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 06, 2011, 02:12:31 PM
I Do not know why you are repeating it many time i have answerd it above .
You didn't answer anything.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 06, 2011, 02:12:31 PMI think you are the poor for not knowing the history behind you fake sect of religion .
substituted ? which mean changed have not you read bibe when God said :
"Do not add to these words lest He reprove you and you be proved a liar." â€" Proverbs 30.6.
I pray for to be find the light ,
Look at the first reply to your thread again.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 05, 2011, 02:22:07 AM
As you see this pagan believers did not read the holy quran as we do when we are debating such lit children. They claim there was an idol called Allah in the Holy house of Kaabah in Mecca the Kingdom of Heaven . :D Lol what are they ?
Why not respond to each point separately? That's why I numbered them.
1. Are you saying that Mohammed's tribe the Quraish did not worship a deity named "Allah" when they worshiped the moon, sun, stars, planets and jinn, around the Kaaba, before Mohammed?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1240.0
2. Are you denying there were 360 idols kept in and around the Kaaba?
3. If you are denying that one of their deities was named "Allah" are you saying that Mohammed invented the name?
4. If one of their deities WAS named "Allah" then which one was it if not the moon?
5. Are you saying they were monotheists?
6. Please tell us who Lat, 'Uzza, and Manat were if not the rest of Allah's family.
7. Since so many of them, including Mohammed's father, were named "Abdullah", or "slave of Allah", then who would you say the Quraish were slaves of?
Maybe this will help.
Loas Bin Hagar, the Arabian poet of the pre-Islam period, said:
"I swear by Ellat and al-Uzza and all who follow their faith, and in Allah, Allah is greater than they."
That's why the pagans said "Allah Akbar" or "Allah is the greatEST"
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#crying_out
I did not answered anything that good joke of your as you know , all of your answers are linked togather . Here from my 1st reply :
I am not denying that they worshiped Allah as diety . They worshiped Allah as the Creator , .......
They did not worship "Allah" as the Creator. All the available evidence suggests that they worshiped "Allah" as the moon god. If you are going to make such a claim you are going to have to produce evidence.
Why would they worship the creator of the world, but then worship His creation? It's absurd to believe that. Like saying they were monotheists and polytheists at the same time.
Please show us the evidence. Simply saying something doesn't magically make it true.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 07:50:38 AM....... but they worshpied with him other deities as well , The idols around the Kaaba .[/color]
Yes. To name a few, Lat the sun godess, and 'Uzza and Manat which were planets, the rest of "Allah" - the most powerful deity - the moon god's family.
According to you they would be worshiping the one creator of the world, along with his wife Lat, and daughters 'Uzza and Manat - all celestial bodies.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 07:34:02 AM
Quote from: resistingrexmundi on January 06, 2011, 02:15:08 PM
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 06, 2011, 02:05:44 PM
Aalah is Allah in arabic , if you wan to hear it go watch the moive about jesus PEACE BE UPON HIM , Your version of course , and you will hear him saying when he is on the cross , Aalah .
Sorry but if you had watched the special features you would have known that the guy responsible for translating the script used arabic to fill out the Aramaic because first century Aramaic is a dead language. And Jesus said Eli, Eli, on the cross. Eli means "My God". That is why Elijah's name literally means "My God is I Am" or "My God is Yah".
I did not need to watch the specialy features , and as i know Allah is not pronounced they way he did it , he said it cleary Aalah , not Allah which is an arabic . I post above already :
"The Aramaic version of the Gospels, which is said to be the language Jesus Christ (Ppuh) spoke, the Aramaic Gospels uses the root "hl0" (read from right to left) in place of the English word "God" used in the English translation. The pronunciation of "hl0" is "AaLaH" or "Alah"*. Jesus Christ (Ppuh) called God, "AaLaH"* "(bibleperversion.com).
But let say , i am wrong , and you are right . What is about when say Ahmed ? lol . Now go and say "he guy responsible for translating the script used arabic to fill out the Aramaic because first century Aramaic is a dead language"
Yes let's say you are wrong because you are. I am not sure exactly what you are talking about in reference to him saying "Ahmed" but as a weak argument for Muhammad. As I said the guy used arabic to fill in where he wasn't sure what the Aramaic word would be so it makes no difference. And at the risk of getting into this endless debate again El, Eloyhim, etc are WORDS for WHAT God is not WHO God is. El, Eloyhim, God is no more a name than person is. Yahweh is God's name. Period.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 07:50:38 AM
2- Mohamed PEACE BE UPON HIM did not invented the name , the name Allah was used long time when Ishamel PEACE BE UPON HIM come to Mecca The Holy site .
Please present the evidence for which you believe that Ishmael, who was never within a thousand kilometers of Mecca, was ever in the place where Mecca was eventually established, and was there about 1500 years before the
historical evidence suggests that Mecca was settled.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 07:50:38 AMtribs that where before Qurish was making idols for there ......
The Quraish made and worshiped idols too.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 07:50:38 AM....... God(I ment good) men , as you do now in westerns socity for those of who are Dear . Later generation after generation pased until the man came who said that we need to worship them to make us close to Allah .
Lat.Uzza and Manat were Good Woman as said above later after their death people start worshping them , ..........
Bring us the evidence that you have that Uzza and Manat were "Good Women" that were worshiped after their death. What kind of nonsense is that? Why would the pagan Quraish worship 2 women?
Women were/are like dirt to Mohammed's followers. The whole notion is ridiculous.
Sura 2:223 your wives are as tilth (farmland) unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 07:50:38 AM........ And yes they were Monothesim before it .
The only monotheists that were ever in Arabia before Mohammed, were Arabs that decided that the planet Venus should be worshiped in monotheism. They were the first monotheists in Arabia.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 07:50:38 AMpeople believe they were angles , and at that time there people started to believe that angles are female , because of it sound like female name Malaeka , so they were considered as angles go read it no Wikipedia if you want[/color]
There is only one that i forgot , which is number 4 : Hubal was the moon Good not Allah .That is you answer
Not to the Quraish based on the archaeological
evidence and the etymology of the word "Al-lah".
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1240.0
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 07:50:38 AM
About the poet ? I repeat many time , that they were pagans , not muslims , neither i am defending them . ok .
So then why did Muslims join the pagans shoulder to shoulder in their Hajj and Umrah?
Why did Mohammed engage in pagan rituals that included their sole surviving idol - the black stone?
Why do you engage in the Quraish's pagan rituals of their moon, sun, star and jinn worship?
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 07:50:38 AMAnyway about Allah Akabar which mean Allah is Great .......
You and I know that is false. Allah Akabar means "Allah is the greatER or greatEST". The Quraish shouted that because they were exhaulting their most powerful pagan deity over THE REST of their pagan deities.
Did you ever go to Arafat and shout "Labeik Allahumma Labeik"?
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 07:50:38 AM........ Everyone belive that there God is Greator than any , as said abvoe , but it seems you did not read any thing . All of the pagans looked to Allah is Creator as said in my posts :
"The name was previously used by pagan Meccans as a reference to the creator deity, possibly the supreme deity in pre-Islamic Arabia"(Wikipedia)
Anybody can write anything in Wikipedia. That doesn't make it fact. Nor does it mean it's all bad. It means you have to apply some discernment. You should see the ridiculous stuff that Mohammed's followers put in Wikipedia. Look at this ridiculous tripe on Alexander the Great.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great_in_the_Qur%27an
On that subject I would like to ask of you. Do you believe Alexander the Great was a prophet of God?
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 07:50:38 AM
Also i post this in my repelys , which is fromt bible :
ehold, God is great, and we know him not; the number of his years is unsearchable. john 36:26
For the LORD is a great God, and a great King above all gods. Psalm 95:3
Behold, God is great, and we know him not - That is, we cannot fully comprehend him; see the notes at Job 11:7-9.
Yet Mohammed's followers insist that the mystery of the Godhead, should be as easy to understand as their next door neighbor, because they limit their understanding of God to that which springs from the child-like mind of an illiterate 7th century SW Arabian desert dweller.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 07:50:38 AM
As Jesus PEACE BE UPON HIM said :
"They have ears, but they hear not; neither is there [any] breath in their mouths " Psalm 135:17
First that is an Old Testament passage condemning the very same kind of idolatry you engage in by prostrating yourself toward the Quraish's black stone idol 5 times a day. You cannot deny that the black stone was a Quraish idol. It is saying that idols had ears carved in them but they couldn't hear or breathe.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Psa&c=135&v=17&t=KJV#17
But let's explore what I think you were trying to ascribe to Jesus through a verse like this
Mat 11:15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
On that basis what do you suppose Jesus meant when he said
"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay [them] before me."
Quote from: Peter on January 08, 2011, 08:07:50 AM
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 07:50:38 AM
Quote from: Peter on January 07, 2011, 11:31:58 AM
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 06, 2011, 02:12:31 PM
I Do not know why you are repeating it many time i have answerd it above .
You didn't answer anything.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 06, 2011, 02:12:31 PMI think you are the poor for not knowing the history behind you fake sect of religion .
substituted ? which mean changed have not you read bibe when God said :
"Do not add to these words lest He reprove you and you be proved a liar." â€" Proverbs 30.6.
I pray for to be find the light ,
Look at the first reply to your thread again.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 05, 2011, 02:22:07 AM
As you see this pagan believers did not read the holy quran as we do when we are debating such lit children. They claim there was an idol called Allah in the Holy house of Kaabah in Mecca the Kingdom of Heaven . :D Lol what are they ?
Why not respond to each point separately? That's why I numbered them.
1. Are you saying that Mohammed's tribe the Quraish did not worship a deity named "Allah" when they worshiped the moon, sun, stars, planets and jinn, around the Kaaba, before Mohammed?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1240.0
2. Are you denying there were 360 idols kept in and around the Kaaba?
3. If you are denying that one of their deities was named "Allah" are you saying that Mohammed invented the name?
4. If one of their deities WAS named "Allah" then which one was it if not the moon?
5. Are you saying they were monotheists?
6. Please tell us who Lat, 'Uzza, and Manat were if not the rest of Allah's family.
7. Since so many of them, including Mohammed's father, were named "Abdullah", or "slave of Allah", then who would you say the Quraish were slaves of?
Maybe this will help.
Loas Bin Hagar, the Arabian poet of the pre-Islam period, said:
"I swear by Ellat and al-Uzza and all who follow their faith, and in Allah, Allah is greater than they."
That's why the pagans said "Allah Akbar" or "Allah is the greatEST"
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#crying_out
I did not answered anything that good joke of your as you know , all of your answers are linked togather . Here from my 1st reply :
I am not denying that they worshiped Allah as diety . They worshiped Allah as the Creator , .......
They did not worship "Allah" as the Creator. All the available evidence suggests that they worshiped "Allah" as the moon god. If you are going to make such a claim you are going to have to produce evidence.
Why would they worship the creator of the world, but then worship His creation? It's absurd to believe that. Like saying they were monotheists and polytheists at the same time.
Please show us the evidence. Simply saying something doesn't magically make it true.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 07:50:38 AM....... but they worshpied with him other deities as well , The idols around the Kaaba .[/color]
Yes. To name a few, Lat the sun godess, and 'Uzza and Manat which were planets, the rest of "Allah" - the most powerful deity - the moon god's family.
According to you they would be worshiping the one creator of the world, along with his wife Lat, and daughters 'Uzza and Manat - all celestial bodies.
First of all you said that i did not answer anything ? so is clear now that i did or not ?
Secondaly, there is nothing call in REAl hisotry that they worshpied Allah as the Moon God as you calim , look to all historical book you will see that Hubal was the moon God . Go search , who is the moon god , you say that its hubal not ALlah . You are right about being unlogical but they did the worshiped Allah as the Creator , but the other idols were Goddes on earth , as thety said it will help to conncet use to Allah , and support us , the same way you divid Heavenly kingdom , and the earth . I never said the ere monothesim at that time , as explain in my repleply that they were originaly were Monothesim , before a man came and told to woshiped Angles and the Good men from Arab trib .
"Hubal (Arabic: هبÙ,,‎) was a moon god worshipped in pre-Islamic Arabia, notably at the Kaaba in Mecca.."(wikipedia.com)
"the moon god's family"!!!!!!!!!!!! Are you sally where in history something called Moon God , only in your dreams boy , there is nothing called Allah as the moon , you just repeating the same thing.
Quote from: resistingrexmundi on January 08, 2011, 08:17:29 AM
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 07:34:02 AM
Quote from: resistingrexmundi on January 06, 2011, 02:15:08 PM
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 06, 2011, 02:05:44 PM
Aalah is Allah in arabic , if you wan to hear it go watch the moive about jesus PEACE BE UPON HIM , Your version of course , and you will hear him saying when he is on the cross , Aalah .
Sorry but if you had watched the special features you would have known that the guy responsible for translating the script used arabic to fill out the Aramaic because first century Aramaic is a dead language. And Jesus said Eli, Eli, on the cross. Eli means "My God". That is why Elijah's name literally means "My God is I Am" or "My God is Yah".
I did not need to watch the specialy features , and as i know Allah is not pronounced they way he did it , he said it cleary Aalah , not Allah which is an arabic . I post above already :
"The Aramaic version of the Gospels, which is said to be the language Jesus Christ (Ppuh) spoke, the Aramaic Gospels uses the root "hl0" (read from right to left) in place of the English word "God" used in the English translation. The pronunciation of "hl0" is "AaLaH" or "Alah"*. Jesus Christ (Ppuh) called God, "AaLaH"* "(bibleperversion.com).
But let say , i am wrong , and you are right . What is about when say Ahmed ? lol . Now go and say "he guy responsible for translating the script used arabic to fill out the Aramaic because first century Aramaic is a dead language"
Yes let's say you are wrong because you are. I am not sure exactly what you are talking about in reference to him saying "Ahmed" but as a weak argument for Muhammad. As I said the guy used arabic to fill in where he wasn't sure what the Aramaic word would be so it makes no difference. And at the risk of getting into this endless debate again El, Eloyhim, etc are WORDS for WHAT God is not WHO God is. El, Eloyhim, God is no more a name than person is. Yahweh is God's name. Period.
Do not act all bossy putting words in my moth , El, Eloyhim is the Alahim the same word we used when we are speaking about God , or Greek Gods , about Yahweh . did i said anything about him ? all the same posting the same thing . I am saying that Aalah is , Elohim , Alah are from semtic language the share the same roots . About Ahmed ? and the weak arugment of yours . He mentioned Ahmed inthe moive and i am going to show the video now :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDcOiqtl8pw
go watch and pretend like you could not hear it
Quote from: Peter on January 08, 2011, 08:24:38 AM
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 07:50:38 AMtribs that where before Qurish was making idols for there ......
The Quraish made and worshiped idols too.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 07:50:38 AM....... God(I ment good) men , as you do now in westerns socity for those of who are Dear . Later generation after generation pased until the man came who said that we need to worship them to make us close to Allah .
Lat.Uzza and Manat were Good Woman as said above later after their death people start worshping them , ..........
Bring us the evidence that you have that Uzza and Manat were "Good Women" that were worshiped after their death. What kind of nonsense is that? Why would the pagan Quraish worship 2 women?
Women were/are like dirt to Mohammed's followers. The whole notion is ridiculous.
Sura 2:223 your wives are as tilth (farmland) unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will.
Of course they did Go search who made Hubal Moon god of yours , you will see that it was Qurish .
Is that true
To understand what does it mean you should read the verse before it whichc says :
They question thee (O Muhammad) concerning menstruation. Say: It is an illness, so let women alone at such times and go not in unto them till they are cleansed. And when they have purified themselves, then go in unto them as Allah hath enjoined upon you. Truly Allah loveth those who turn unto Him, and loveth those who have a care for cleanness. (222) Your women are a tilth for you (to cultivate) so go to your tilth as ye will, and send (good deeds) before you for your souls, and fear Allah, and know that ye will (one day) meet Him. Give glad tidings to believers, (O Muhammad). (223) You say Good telling them Not to jumaaha (sex) when woman are in Menstruation , so you cannot intercourse with womans until they are finished from menstruation , then you can do it this what does it mean .
This what quran says about womans :
Women's Rights
2:228 "(Women) have rights similar to those (of men) over them in kindness, and men are a degree above them."
For Muslim men and women, for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in charity, for men and women who fast, for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in God's praise, for them has God prepared forgiveness and great reward. (33:35)
Interseting Qutos from the bible :
Genesis 3:16
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Isaiah 3:12
As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them.
1 Corinthians 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1 Corinthians 14:34-36
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
Ephesians 5:22-24
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Colossians 3:18
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
1 Timothy 2:11-15
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing.
1 Peter 3:1
Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands.
Quote from: Peter on January 08, 2011, 08:28:39 AM
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 07:50:38 AM........ And yes they were Monothesim before it .
The only monotheists that were ever in Arabia before Mohammed, were Arabs that decided that the planet Venus should be worshiped in monotheism. They were the first monotheists in Arabia.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 07:50:38 AMpeople believe they were angles , and at that time there people started to believe that angles are female , because of it sound like female name Malaeka , so they were considered as angles go read it no Wikipedia if you want[/color]
There is only one that i forgot , which is number 4 : Hubal was the moon Good not Allah .That is you answer
Not to the Quraish based on the archaeological evidence and the etymology of the word "Al-lah".
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1240.0
no you are wrong they were monothesim before , they were worshiping Allah , God Ishamal and ibrahm and Jesus , and Mohamed PEACE BE UPON THEM . Yes they were worship Allah from days of the prophet Ishamal and Ibrahm
Allah was used before by jesus and moso long time ago, and i already said the evidance if you care to read above
Quote from: Peter on January 08, 2011, 08:34:36 AM
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 07:50:38 AMAnyway about Allah Akabar which mean Allah is Great .......
You and I know that is false. Allah Akabar means "Allah is the greatER or greatEST". The Quraish shouted that because they were exhaulting their most powerful pagan deity over THE REST of their pagan deities.
Did you ever go to Arafat and shout "Labeik Allahumma Labeik"?
Of course , did i disagree about . As said ,and I KEEP repeating many times , every religon believes that there God is the Greatest . Excpet if you are DIFFERENT and you believe that Greeks Gods are Greater than The Triniy God . For your information i do not need to go to Arafat to shout " Labeik Allahumma Labeik" i can do it right , and i did it . You just do not understand do not you
Labeik mean that we answered
You can see it in the bible :
"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? Mathew 25 :37
"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' 24 : 44
Have nice day
Quote from: Peter on January 08, 2011, 08:46:06 AM
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 07:50:38 AM
As Jesus PEACE BE UPON HIM said :
"They have ears, but they hear not; neither is there [any] breath in their mouths " Psalm 135:17
First that is an Old Testament passage condemning the very same kind of idolatry you engage in by prostrating yourself toward the Quraish's black stone idol 5 times a day. You cannot deny that the black stone was a Quraish idol. It is saying that idols had ears carved in them but they couldn't hear or breathe.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Psa&c=135&v=17&t=KJV#17
But let's explore what I think you were trying to ascribe to Jesus through a verse like this
Mat 11:15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
On that basis what do you suppose Jesus meant when he said
"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay [them] before me."
And THE HOLY QURAN condemning idolatry too :
21 Al Aniyba :
When he said unto his father and his folk: What are these images unto which ye pay devotion? (52) They said: We found our fathers worshippers of them. (53) He said: Verily ye and your fathers were in plain error. (54) They said: Bringest thou unto us the truth, or art thou some jester? (55) He said: Nay, but your Lord is the Lord of the heavens and the earth, Who created them; and I am of those who testify unto that. (56) And, by Allah, I shall circumvent your idols after ye have gone away and turned your backs. (57) Then he reduced them to fragments, all save the chief of them, that haply they might have recourse to it. (58) They said: Who hath done this to our gods? Surely it must be some evil-doer. (59) They said: We heard a youth make mention of them, who is called Abraham. (60) They said: Then bring him (hither) before the people's eyes that they may testify. (61) They said: Is it thou who hast done this to our gods, O Abraham? (62) He said: But this, their chief hath done it. So question them, if they can speak. (63) Then gathered they apart and said: Lo! ye yourselves are the wrong-doers. (64) And they were utterly confounded, and they said: Well thou knowest that these speak not. (65) He said: Worship ye then instead of Allah that which cannot profit you at all, nor harm you? (66) Fie on you and all that ye worship instead of Allah! Have ye then no sense? (67) They cried: Burn him and stand by your gods, if ye will be doing. (68)
6 Al Anam :
) Say: Shall we cry, instead of unto Allah, unto that which neither profiteth us nor hurteth us, and shall we turn back after Allah hath guided us, like one bewildered whom the devils have infatuated in the earth, who hath companions who invite him to the guidance (saying): Come unto us? Say: Lo! the guidance of Allah is Guidance, and we are ordered to surrender to the Lord of the Worlds, (71) And to establish worship and ward off (evil), and He it is unto Whom ye will be gathered.
37 As Saffat :
And lo! of his persuasion verily was Abraham (83) When he came unto his Lord with a whole heart; (84) When he said unto his father and his folk: What is it that ye worship? (85) Is it a falsehood - gods beside Allah - that ye desire? (86) What then is your opinion of the Lord of the Worlds? (87) And he glanced a glance at the stars (88) Then said: Lo! I feel sick! (89) And they turned their backs and went away from him. (90) Then turned he to their gods and said: Will ye not eat? (91) What aileth you that ye speak not? (92) Then he attacked them, striking with his right hand. (93) And (his people) came toward him, hastening. (94) He said: Worship ye that which ye yourselves do carve (95) When Allah hath created you and what ye make? (96)
WE ARE NOT PRAYING FOR BACLKSTONE . I SAID MANY TIMES THAT WE ARE PRAYING TOWARD THE KAABAH (QBLAH).
What About you , have you gone to a church , did you see the idols in it , or the idols of men in the west for men . Be serious
See you later
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 04:55:56 PM
Do not act all bossy putting words in my moth , El, Eloyhim is the Alahim the same word we used when we are speaking about God , or Greek Gods , about Yahweh . did i said anything about him ? all the same posting the same thing . I am saying that Aalah is , Elohim , Alah are from semtic language the share the same roots . About Ahmed ? and the weak arugment of yours . He mentioned Ahmed inthe moive and i am going to show the video now :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDcOiqtl8pw
go watch and pretend like you could not hear it
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
I thought you were drudging up Deedat's buffoonery. Well there you have it ladies and gentlemen. Because in Syriac Manhma means praised one and is close to Muhammad whose name means 'the most praised'. That clenched it for me. But I still have some doubts. Like the fact that this is a MOVIE that was made in the 21st Century. The guy used arabic to fill in the gaps to the Aramaic so it isn't any wonder that similiar words show up. Furthermore the Scriptures already told WHO the Comforter was and it wasn't Muhammad. It is the Holy Spirit. And I know that El, Eloyhim, and Ileh are from the same roots. But as I pointed out to you they are not NAMES. They are words.
Quote from: resistingrexmundi on January 09, 2011, 08:59:01 AM
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 04:55:56 PM
Do not act all bossy putting words in my moth , El, Eloyhim is the Alahim the same word we used when we are speaking about God , or Greek Gods , about Yahweh . did i said anything about him ? all the same posting the same thing . I am saying that Aalah is , Elohim , Alah are from semtic language the share the same roots . About Ahmed ? and the weak arugment of yours . He mentioned Ahmed inthe moive and i am going to show the video now :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDcOiqtl8pw
go watch and pretend like you could not hear it
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
I thought you were drudging up Deedat's buffoonery. Well there you have it ladies and gentlemen. Because in Syriac Manhma means praised one and is close to Muhammad whose name means 'the most praised'. That clenched it for me. But I still have some doubts. Like the fact that this is a MOVIE that was made in the 21st Century. The guy used arabic to fill in the gaps to the Aramaic so it isn't any wonder that similiar words show up. Furthermore the Scriptures already told WHO the Comforter was and it wasn't Muhammad. It is the Holy Spirit. And I know that El, Eloyhim, and Ileh are from the same roots. But as I pointed out to you they are not NAMES. They are words.
No i am not drudging anyone , Deedat May Allah bless him is Greator than you . And surely i watch his debate with Christians
Lol . The Comoforter is Mohamed PEACE BE UPON HIM and again Caomforter is also an english word , jesus , Peter is Greek , Pual is Greek . I have some doubt too , but still why he will do that , it does not make any difference if Mohamed was said in Armemine , the lanuage if Jesus peace be upon him . if you watch careful you will hear , that he was saying it when was speaking about the "Comforter " . So are you saying the Holy Spirit he name called The most praised when transleted to english . If so, then you solved what Muslims and Christian were aruging about .
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 04:46:56 PM
Quote from: Peter on January 08, 2011, 08:07:50 AM
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 07:50:38 AM
Quote from: Peter on January 07, 2011, 11:31:58 AM
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 06, 2011, 02:12:31 PM
I Do not know why you are repeating it many time i have answerd it above .
You didn't answer anything.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 06, 2011, 02:12:31 PMI think you are the poor for not knowing the history behind you fake sect of religion .
substituted ? which mean changed have not you read bibe when God said :
"Do not add to these words lest He reprove you and you be proved a liar." â€" Proverbs 30.6.
I pray for to be find the light ,
Look at the first reply to your thread again.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 05, 2011, 02:22:07 AM
As you see this pagan believers did not read the holy quran as we do when we are debating such lit children. They claim there was an idol called Allah in the Holy house of Kaabah in Mecca the Kingdom of Heaven . :D Lol what are they ?
Why not respond to each point separately? That's why I numbered them.
1. Are you saying that Mohammed's tribe the Quraish did not worship a deity named "Allah" when they worshiped the moon, sun, stars, planets and jinn, around the Kaaba, before Mohammed?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1240.0
2. Are you denying there were 360 idols kept in and around the Kaaba?
3. If you are denying that one of their deities was named "Allah" are you saying that Mohammed invented the name?
4. If one of their deities WAS named "Allah" then which one was it if not the moon?
5. Are you saying they were monotheists?
6. Please tell us who Lat, 'Uzza, and Manat were if not the rest of Allah's family.
7. Since so many of them, including Mohammed's father, were named "Abdullah", or "slave of Allah", then who would you say the Quraish were slaves of?
Maybe this will help.
Loas Bin Hagar, the Arabian poet of the pre-Islam period, said:
"I swear by Ellat and al-Uzza and all who follow their faith, and in Allah, Allah is greater than they."
That's why the pagans said "Allah Akbar" or "Allah is the greatEST"
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#crying_out
I did not answered anything that good joke of your as you know , all of your answers are linked togather . Here from my 1st reply :
I am not denying that they worshiped Allah as diety . They worshiped Allah as the Creator , .......
They did not worship "Allah" as the Creator. All the available evidence suggests that they worshiped "Allah" as the moon god. If you are going to make such a claim you are going to have to produce evidence.
Why would they worship the creator of the world, but then worship His creation? It's absurd to believe that. Like saying they were monotheists and polytheists at the same time.
Please show us the evidence. Simply saying something doesn't magically make it true.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 07:50:38 AM....... but they worshpied with him other deities as well , The idols around the Kaaba .[/color]
Yes. To name a few, Lat the sun godess, and 'Uzza and Manat which were planets, the rest of "Allah" - the most powerful deity - the moon god's family.
According to you they would be worshiping the one creator of the world, along with his wife Lat, and daughters 'Uzza and Manat - all celestial bodies.
First of all you said that i did not answer anything ? so is clear now that i did or not ?
Yes you did. Sorry my mistake. Maybe I didn't scroll up or something.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 04:46:56 PM
Secondaly, there is nothing call in REAl hisotry that they worshpied Allah as the Moon God as you calim , look to all historical book you will see that Hubal was the moon God . Go search , who is the moon god , you say that its hubal not ALlah .
Hubal was ALSO a name of the moon god that was worshiped in Arabia. Here is the etymology of "Al-lah".
"We know that the term "Allah," as the god of the moon, was derived from the Thamud god of the moon. His name was Hilal, or Hlal, which means "crescent." Later, the name "Hilal" became Hilah, as we see in many inscriptions which were found in Arabia. In the Thamud inscriptions he is found as H-ilah, Ha-ilah and H-alah. We see the same development for "Hilah," the moon deity in Yemen, where Almaqah is called "Halal,' or "Hilal, the Crescent." 15
Safaitic tribes were nomads wandering in many parts of Arabia, especially in the north. The god of the moon was found in their inscriptions as "H-lah." in the Safaitic inscriptions, the letter "H" pronounced as "Ha" is the definite article, "the." It corresponds to the Arabic, "Al."16 This led the Arabians to call him "Al-lah."
More http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1240.0
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 04:46:56 PMYou are right about being unlogical but they did the worshiped Allah as the Creator , but the other idols were Goddes on earth , ......
That's simply untrue. Most of the Kaabas were set up to worship stars and planets. The idols
represented those celestial bodies. Just the way the Quraish's black stone idol still
represents the Mohammedans "Allah".
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 04:46:56 PM....... as thety said it will help to conncet use to Allah , and support us , the same way you divid Heavenly kingdom , and the earth . I never said the ere monothesim at that time , as explain in my repleply that they were originaly were Monothesim , before a man came and told to woshiped Angles and the Good men from Arab trib .
"Hubal (Arabic: هبÙ,,‎) was a moon god worshipped in pre-Islamic Arabia, notably at the Kaaba in Mecca.."(wikipedia.com)
"the moon god's family"!!!!!!!!!!!! Are you sally where in history something called Moon God , only in your dreams boy , there is nothing called Allah as the moon , you just repeating the same thing.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 05:53:07 PM
Quote from: Peter on January 08, 2011, 08:46:06 AM
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 07:50:38 AM
As Jesus PEACE BE UPON HIM said :
"They have ears, but they hear not; neither is there [any] breath in their mouths " Psalm 135:17
First that is an Old Testament passage condemning the very same kind of idolatry you engage in by prostrating yourself toward the Quraish's black stone idol 5 times a day. You cannot deny that the black stone was a Quraish idol. It is saying that idols had ears carved in them but they couldn't hear or breathe.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Psa&c=135&v=17&t=KJV#17
But let's explore what I think you were trying to ascribe to Jesus through a verse like this
Mat 11:15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
On that basis what do you suppose Jesus meant when he said
"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay [them] before me."
And THE HOLY QURAN condemning idolatry too :
That verse isn't about idolatry. You can't be expected to understand it.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 05:53:07 PM
WE ARE NOT PRAYING FOR BACLKSTONE . I SAID MANY TIMES THAT WE ARE PRAYING TOWARD THE KAABAH (QBLAH).
That's right. You prostrate yourself 5 times a day to the Quraish's pagan kaaba that was built to house 360 idols.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 05:53:07 PM
What About you , have you gone to a church, ........
The term "church" comes from a German word that indicates a building. The concept is something that Constantine is credited with starting like so much other error he introduced.
http://www.therealchurch.com/articles/the_word_that_changed_the_world.html
Those that follow the Messiah, Jesus Christ, are what is called the "ecclesia" or "assembly of the called out". We are called out of this world and into the kingdom of God.
The archaeological evidence tells us that in the first century Christians generally assembled in homes, the way much of Christ's true church assembles today. But our "church" can be as simple as two Christians assembled under a shade tree.
Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Yeshua's people
ARE His temple.
John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them,
Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21
But he spake of the temple of his body. 22
When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.You see, Jesus rebuilt the temple in 3 days through His crucifixion, death and resurrection.
1 Corinthians 3:16 Know
ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
We are filled with the Comforter - the Holy Spirit
1Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that
your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
So wherever we assemble IS the church.
Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And
are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; 21
In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22
In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.It's a tragedy that something like 20 billion dollars a year goes to building and maintaining "church" structures. That money could otherwise be used for things like feeding starving Africans, and perhaps even liberating them from their evil Islamic oppressors and murderers.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/great_tribulation.htm
"Once again, women are the targets. In mid-March, rebels (aka true followers of Mohammed) assaulted three women gathering firewood and cut off their ears, lips, and breasts."
"Starting in 2003, Janjaweed Arabs (aka Muslims), a Sudan-backed militia, have driven 2 million villagers from their homes in ethnic-cleansing attacks designed to suppress local rebels."
"Eyewitness accounts detailing the militia attacks are horrifying. "They killed my 3-year-old son right in front of my eyes," one father from West Darfur said. Since last fall, women have reported more than 500 rapes. Three women said five militiamen beat and raped them last August. The women said, "After they abused us, they told us that now we would have Arab babies. And, if they would find any [more] women, they would rape them again to change the color of their children.""
Persecution in Africa (http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=christians+persecuted+africa&aq=&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=83f87efc6f926f13) But of course Christians are persecuted all over the world.
2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
More on the temple of God http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=552.0
More on the home church (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&expIds=17259,26767,27955,28057&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=home+church&cp=3&pf=p&sclient=psy&aq=0c&aqi=&aql=&oq=hom+church&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=83f87efc6f926f13)
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 05:53:07 PM....... did you see the idols in it , or the idols of men in the west for men . Be serious
See you later
The idolatry that you mention is of Constantines Roman church. Same guy that began the concept of a "church" as being a building. Same group that started the Mary worship that Mohammed seems to have appreciated.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=75.msg1679#msg1679
But bowing to and venerating statues is not REQUIRED even in the Roman Church.
So since you are required to prostrate yourself to the Quraish's black stone idol you are far worse shape.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 10, 2011, 02:57:06 AM
No i am not drudging anyone , Deedat May Allah bless him is Greator than you . And surely i watch his debate with Christians
Lol . The Comoforter is Mohamed PEACE BE UPON HIM and again Caomforter is also an english word , jesus , Peter is Greek , Pual is Greek . I have some doubt too , but still why he will do that , it does not make any difference if Mohamed was said in Armemine , the lanuage if Jesus peace be upon him . if you watch careful you will hear , that he was saying it when was speaking about the "Comforter " . So are you saying the Holy Spirit he name called The most praised when transleted to english . If so, then you solved what Muslims and Christian were aruging about .
Your opinion of Deedat is of no relevance to me. He was a liar who made up his own verse by adding words to Scripture to keep his Bible ignorant minions in the dark. And I have already told you it doesn't matter what was said in a MOVIE because that is what it was. A MOVIE.
The translator (Abdul Hamid Siddiqi) of Sahih Muslim notes that this is in reference to the 'Comforter' that Jesus spoke of.
In the Sirat Rasulallah, the earliest extant biography of Muhammad written by Ibn Ishaq, a specific claim is made asserting that Muhammad is the Comforter. On pages 103 and 104 of Guillaume's translation (The Life of Muhammad), the alleged prediction is described. Ishaq's work mis-quotes the New Testament and takes it out of context, and references several non-biblical works in his support as proof. Below is part of the quote from “The Life of Muhammadâ€, pages 103, 104: [4]
Among the things which have reached me about what Jesus the Son of Mary stated in the Gospel which he received from God for the followers of the Gospel, in applying a term to describe the apostle of God, is the following. It is extracted from what John the Apostle set down for them when he wrote the Gospel for them from the Testament of Jesus Son of Mary: ...â€But when the Comforter has come whom God will send to you from the Lord’s presence, and the spirit of truth which will have gone forth form the Lord’s presence he (shall bear) witness of me and ye also, because ye have been with me from the beginning. I have spoken unto you about this that ye should not be in doubt.†The Munahhemana (God bless and preserve him!) in Syriac is Muhammad: in Greek he is the paraclete.
Guillaume notes that,
“The passage quoted is John 15:23ff. It is interesting to note that the citation comes from the Palestinian Syriac Lectionary and not from the ordinary Bible of the Syriac-speaking Churches. …The most interesting word is that rendered “Comforter†which we find in the Palestinian Lectionary, but all other Syriac versions render “paracleteâ€, following the Greek. This word was well established in the Hebrew and Aramaic speaking world. The menahhemana in Syriac means the lifegiver and especially one who raises from the dead. Obviously such a meaning is out of place here and what is meant is one who consoles and comforts people for the loss of one dear to them. This is the meaning in the Talmud and Targum. It ought to be pointed out that by the omission of the words “that is written†before “in the law†quite another meaning is given to the prophecy. The natural rendering would be “the word that concerns the Namus must be fulfilledâ€.
Guillaume is stating that the Ibn Ishaq quote is corrupted, i.e. inaccurate or tampered with. Ibn Ishaq recorded versions of history that he heard from sources he assumed to have some degree of reliability. However, they could have been mistaken or Ibn Ishaq could have altered the material to fit his understanding. Additionally, Ibn Ishaq often records conflicting versions of historical events. He would record historical information that he himself disagreed with, or doubted, in order to record plausible historic options.
First, let the New Testament texts speak for themselves. They clearly state that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit. There is no ambiguity about this. Consequently Muhammad is not the Comforter based upon what the Bible explicitly states.
Second let us take the context of the texts into account. If you are going to understand any passage of Scripture you must understand its context. When Jesus spoke these words in John it was His last ministerial time with His disciples prior to His death, crucifixion, and resurrection. Jesus is being very intimate with them. Understand then, when he speaks to them He is including them â€" these very disciples, specifically. These are the men He knew best and loved; they were His friends. These were His final words to them, and He wanted them to know what was in store.
Therefore, knowing that these passages of John are being spoken intimately between Jesus and His disciples there are several key points we can discover concerning the Comforter and His relationship with Jesus’ disciples.
John 14:16 â€" And I will ask the Father and He will give you another Comforter to be with you forever - the Spirit of Truth.
The Comforter will be with these disciples forever. Jesus promised the Comforter would be with these disciples forever. Muhammad could not be the Comforter because he wasn't born until over 500 years later - following the deaths of these disciples. He was born around 570 and died around 632 AD.
John 14:17 â€" But you know him for he lives with you and will be in you.
The Comforter lives with the disciples already now and will later be 'in' them. The Holy Spirit came to the disciples and indwelt them. Muhammad could not be the Comforter because first he wasn't around at the time when Jesus was speaking to his disciples nor second could he ever be in any of the disciples. The Greek word is 'en', and it means 'right inside'. Jesus is saying that the Comforter will be 'right inside' of the disciples.
John 14:26 â€" The Comforter is specifically described as the Holy Spirit. The Comforter is not a man. Muhammad could not be the Comforter because he was never the Holy Spirit.
John 14:26 â€" The Comforter will be sent in Jesus' name. The Holy Spirit represented the Lord on earth. No Muslim believes that Muhammad was sent by God in Jesus name. Muhammad did not come in Jesus' name, as the apostle of Jesus, rather he came in his own name with his own questionable “revelationsâ€.
John 14:26 â€" But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."
The Comforter will teach these disciples and remind them of what Christ said to them. As the early Christians grew the Holy Spirit taught them. Muhammad is not the Comforter because he never knew the disciples and he didn't teach these disciples, and Muhammad never reminded the disciples of what Christ said.
John 15:26 â€" When the Comforter comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.
The Comforter would be sent to these disciples. These disciples received the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost. Muhammad was never sent to these disciples.
John 16:13 â€" But when he, the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all truth.
The Comforter will guide these disciples into all truth. These disciples (and others) grew in the knowledge of God through the revelations from the Holy Spirit. Muhammad never guided these disciples into any truth.
John 16:13 â€" He will not speak on his own, he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
The Comforter will speak to these disciples. These disciples grew to know the leading of the Holy Spirit, i.e. they knew His voice. Muhammad never spoke to these disciples.
John 16:14 â€" He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.
The Comforter will take from Jesus and make it known to the disciples. Muhammad never knew Jesus and never took from Jesus and made it known to anyone.
The context of these passages shows clearly that Muhammad could not be the Comforter. Jesus was not speaking of another person to come at a later date. Jesus’ precious final words to His disciples were meant for them. Jesus was not merely preaching a sermon to be analyzed and intellectually talked about through the centuries, rather, He was giving His the disciples with Him there His final commands, love, and encouragement.
Here's a question for you to consider: In Islamic theology, Muhammad rendered Jesus’ message fulfilled or ended because Muhammad brought God’s latest message to the people. Muhammad expected that true believers in God would accept Islam. Therefore, if Jesus was foretelling Muhammad, wouldn’t Jesus be prophesying that his ministry will be rendered void by the Paraclete? Read the context of the passages and decide.
Further, to fulfill exactly what Jesus foretold concerning the Comforter and His relationship with the disciples, the New Testament records the fulfillment of the coming of the Holy Spirit and the disciples receiving Him. The disciples received the Comforter - the Holy Spirit, on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:3, 4. The Comforter was now “in†the disciples and He remained “in†them from then on and taught them â€" just as Jesus had said He would.
THE EARLY CHURCH’S VIEW OF THE COMFORTER
The writings of the early Church Fathers also mention the Comforter, or Paraclete. Below are some of their statements on His identity. These early Church Fathers lived during the first 3 centuries of Christianity.
Note: Quotes are taken from “The Ante-Nicene Fathers†edited by Rev. Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, AGES Software, Albany, Oregon© 1996, 1997 [5]
THE EPISTLE OF IGNATIUS TO THE PHILIPPIANS
Page 224
“What is His name, or what His Son’s name, that we may know?†And there is also one Paraclete. For “there is also,†saith [the Scripture], “one Spirit,†since “we have been called in one hope of our calling.†And again, “We have drunk of one Spirit,†with what follows. And it is manifest that all these gifts [possessed by believers] “worketh one and the self-same Spirit.†There are not then either three Fathers, or three Sons, or three Paracletes, but one Father, and one Son, and one Paraclete.
FRAGMENTS OF CLEMENS ALEXANDRINUS
Page 1155
The old things which were done by the prophets and escape the observation of most, are now revealed to you by the evangelists. “For to you,†he says, “they are manifested by the Holy Ghost, who was sent;†that is the Paraclete, of whom the Lord said, “If I go not away, He will not come.â€
TERTULLIAN AGAINST PRAXEAS;
Page 1083
He will come to judge the quick and the dead; who sent also from heaven from the Father, according to His own promise, the Holy Ghost, the Paraclete, the sanctifier of the faith of those who believe in the Father, and in the Son, and in the Holy Ghost.
Page 1094
Happily the Lord Himself employs this expression of the person of the Paraclete, so as to signify not a division or severance, but a disposition (of mutual relations in the Godhead); for He says, “I will pray the Father, and He shall send you another Comforter ... even the Spirit of truth,â€
ORIGEN DE PRINCIPIIS, BOOK 2, CHAPTER 7
ON THE HOLY SPIRIT
It is time, then, that we say a few words to the best of our ability regarding the Holy Spirit, whom our Lord and Savior in the Gospel according to John has named the Paraclete.
We must therefore know that the Paraclete is the Holy Spirit, who teaches truths ...
But the Paraclete, who is called the Holy Spirit, ...
In the case of the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete ...
Above are the statements of 4 of the Ante-Nicene Church Fathers. They state that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit. From the time of Jesus through the history of the early church the early Christians believed that the Comforter was the Holy Spirit. There was no confusion or uncertainty on their part regarding the identity of the Comforter.
QUESTIONS AND ASSERTIONS ABOUT THE COMFORTER
There exist some very good questions concerning the Comforter and these need to be answered. Also, there are some Muslim assertions that bear a closer examination. I will try to answer the questions, and assess the assertions.
1) QUESTION ON WHO JESUS MEANT BY “YOU†WHEN ADDRESSING THE DISCIPLES REGARDING THE COMFORTER
QUESTION:
Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad used to say 'you' to their followers but really it was a general expression for those who follow their teachings. For example, Jesus told his followers that they would see him coming back to the earth and all of them have since died. Couldn't Jesus have meant the disciples in general, specifically the future ones, when speaking about the Comforter?
ANSWER:
Examine John chapters 13 through 17. This was the time when Christ was alone with His disciples. His actions and dialog with them were very personal. He washed their feet, predicted His betrayal, comforted them, foretold the coming of the "Comforter", taught them about 'abiding' in Him, foretold tribulation for them, and said a most intimate prayer (chapter 17) for them and Himself. If you review all of this, you will see that Jesus was not speaking in a general term of 'you', to the possible exclusion of these men, but at the very least He was speaking to those with Him â€" His disciples. And later on they experienced what Jesus foretold â€" they “received†the Comforter.
I encourage all Muslims to read John chapters 13 through 17. Be sincere in your reading, ask God to guide you. You will see that Jesus was speaking very dearly to His disciples.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 10, 2011, 02:57:06 AM
No i am not drudging anyone , Deedat May Allah bless him is Greator than you . And surely i watch his debate with Christians
Deedat was a lying antichrist that fooled his bible ignorant followers into believing they were not antichrists by creating his own verse. Here's an actual verse from the same version he pretended to quote from.
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?
He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and
the Son. 23
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father:...
I expose his lie and how he fooled you here. He repeated the fake bible verse so it was no accident.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=335.0
Here's the video version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDslsWDzPIc
Quote from: Peter on January 10, 2011, 05:59:07 AM
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 04:46:56 PM
Quote from: Peter on January 08, 2011, 08:07:50 AM
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 07:50:38 AM
Quote from: Peter on January 07, 2011, 11:31:58 AM
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 06, 2011, 02:12:31 PM
I Do not know why you are repeating it many time i have answerd it above .
You didn't answer anything.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 06, 2011, 02:12:31 PMI think you are the poor for not knowing the history behind you fake sect of religion .
substituted ? which mean changed have not you read bibe when God said :
"Do not add to these words lest He reprove you and you be proved a liar." â€" Proverbs 30.6.
I pray for to be find the light ,
Look at the first reply to your thread again.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 05, 2011, 02:22:07 AM
As you see this pagan believers did not read the holy quran as we do when we are debating such lit children. They claim there was an idol called Allah in the Holy house of Kaabah in Mecca the Kingdom of Heaven . :D Lol what are they ?
Why not respond to each point separately? That's why I numbered them.
1. Are you saying that Mohammed's tribe the Quraish did not worship a deity named "Allah" when they worshiped the moon, sun, stars, planets and jinn, around the Kaaba, before Mohammed?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1240.0
2. Are you denying there were 360 idols kept in and around the Kaaba?
3. If you are denying that one of their deities was named "Allah" are you saying that Mohammed invented the name?
4. If one of their deities WAS named "Allah" then which one was it if not the moon?
5. Are you saying they were monotheists?
6. Please tell us who Lat, 'Uzza, and Manat were if not the rest of Allah's family.
7. Since so many of them, including Mohammed's father, were named "Abdullah", or "slave of Allah", then who would you say the Quraish were slaves of?
Maybe this will help.
Loas Bin Hagar, the Arabian poet of the pre-Islam period, said:
"I swear by Ellat and al-Uzza and all who follow their faith, and in Allah, Allah is greater than they."
That's why the pagans said "Allah Akbar" or "Allah is the greatEST"
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#crying_out
I did not answered anything that good joke of your as you know , all of your answers are linked togather . Here from my 1st reply :
I am not denying that they worshiped Allah as diety . They worshiped Allah as the Creator , .......
They did not worship "Allah" as the Creator. All the available evidence suggests that they worshiped "Allah" as the moon god. If you are going to make such a claim you are going to have to produce evidence.
Why would they worship the creator of the world, but then worship His creation? It's absurd to believe that. Like saying they were monotheists and polytheists at the same time.
Please show us the evidence. Simply saying something doesn't magically make it true.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 07:50:38 AM....... but they worshpied with him other deities as well , The idols around the Kaaba .[/color]
Yes. To name a few, Lat the sun godess, and 'Uzza and Manat which were planets, the rest of "Allah" - the most powerful deity - the moon god's family.
According to you they would be worshiping the one creator of the world, along with his wife Lat, and daughters 'Uzza and Manat - all celestial bodies.
First of all you said that i did not answer anything ? so is clear now that i did or not ?
Yes you did. Sorry my mistake. Maybe I didn't scroll up or something.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 04:46:56 PM
Secondaly, there is nothing call in REAl hisotry that they worshpied Allah as the Moon God as you calim , look to all historical book you will see that Hubal was the moon God . Go search , who is the moon god , you say that its hubal not ALlah .
Hubal was ALSO a name of the moon god that was worshiped in Arabia. Here is the etymology of "Al-lah".
"We know that the term "Allah," as the god of the moon, was derived from the Thamud god of the moon. His name was Hilal, or Hlal, which means "crescent." Later, the name "Hilal" became Hilah, as we see in many inscriptions which were found in Arabia. In the Thamud inscriptions he is found as H-ilah, Ha-ilah and H-alah. We see the same development for "Hilah," the moon deity in Yemen, where Almaqah is called "Halal,' or "Hilal, the Crescent." 15
Safaitic tribes were nomads wandering in many parts of Arabia, especially in the north. The god of the moon was found in their inscriptions as "H-lah." in the Safaitic inscriptions, the letter "H" pronounced as "Ha" is the definite article, "the." It corresponds to the Arabic, "Al."16 This led the Arabians to call him "Al-lah."
More http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1240.0
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 04:46:56 PMYou are right about being unlogical but they did the worshiped Allah as the Creator , but the other idols were Goddes on earth , ......
That's simply untrue. Most of the Kaabas were set up to worship stars and planets. The idols represented those celestial bodies. Just the way the Quraish's black stone idol still represents the Mohammedans "Allah".
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 04:46:56 PM....... as thety said it will help to conncet use to Allah , and support us , the same way you divid Heavenly kingdom , and the earth . I never said the ere monothesim at that time , as explain in my repleply that they were originaly were Monothesim , before a man came and told to woshiped Angles and the Good men from Arab trib .
"Hubal (Arabic: هبÙ,,‎) was a moon god worshipped in pre-Islamic Arabia, notably at the Kaaba in Mecca.."(wikipedia.com)
"the moon god's family"!!!!!!!!!!!! Are you sally where in history something called Moon God , only in your dreams boy , there is nothing called Allah as the moon , you just repeating the same thing.
You claim they worship common women and you think I am dreaming? Why would they worship a couple of women?
It is true that ISLAMIC HISTORIANS (check the bibliography on the following link) tell us that the Quraish worshiped the most venerated priest and priestess of the Arabian jinn religion, Asaf and Naelah. Their story went that the two of them committed fornication inside the Kaaba and so "Allah" turned them into stone. Mohammed's grandfather Abdel Matlub dug the well of Zamzam and dedicated it to two the idols there were supposed to be Asaf and Naelah. The pagans ran back and forth between Safa and Marwah because Abdel put the idols of them on those two hills. Mohammed's followers run back and forth between safa and Marwah today as the Arabian jinn-demon worshipers did.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1267.0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfWy5KaFvbU
It's a historical fact that the pagans worshiped planets and stars and the sun. It's what the Quraish built their Kaaba for.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1240.0
Quote from: resistingrexmundi on January 10, 2011, 08:14:45 AM
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 10, 2011, 02:57:06 AM
No i am not drudging anyone , Deedat May Allah bless him is Greator than you . And surely i watch his debate with Christians
Lol . The Comoforter is Mohamed PEACE BE UPON HIM and again Caomforter is also an english word , jesus , Peter is Greek , Pual is Greek . I have some doubt too , but still why he will do that , it does not make any difference if Mohamed was said in Armemine , the lanuage if Jesus peace be upon him . if you watch careful you will hear , that he was saying it when was speaking about the "Comforter " . So are you saying the Holy Spirit he name called The most praised when transleted to english . If so, then you solved what Muslims and Christian were aruging about .
Your opinion of Deedat is of no relevance to me. He was a liar who made up his own verse by adding words to Scripture to keep his Bible ignorant minions in the dark. And I have already told you it doesn't matter what was said in a MOVIE because that is what it was. A MOVIE.
The translator (Abdul Hamid Siddiqi) of Sahih Muslim notes that this is in reference to the 'Comforter' that Jesus spoke of.
In the Sirat Rasulallah, the earliest extant biography of Muhammad written by Ibn Ishaq, a specific claim is made asserting that Muhammad is the Comforter. On pages 103 and 104 of Guillaume's translation (The Life of Muhammad), the alleged prediction is described. Ishaq's work mis-quotes the New Testament and takes it out of context, and references several non-biblical works in his support as proof. Below is part of the quote from “The Life of Muhammadâ€, pages 103, 104: [4]
Among the things which have reached me about what Jesus the Son of Mary stated in the Gospel which he received from God for the followers of the Gospel, in applying a term to describe the apostle of God, is the following. It is extracted from what John the Apostle set down for them when he wrote the Gospel for them from the Testament of Jesus Son of Mary: ...â€But when the Comforter has come whom God will send to you from the Lord’s presence, and the spirit of truth which will have gone forth form the Lord’s presence he (shall bear) witness of me and ye also, because ye have been with me from the beginning. I have spoken unto you about this that ye should not be in doubt.†The Munahhemana (God bless and preserve him!) in Syriac is Muhammad: in Greek he is the paraclete.
Guillaume notes that,
“The passage quoted is John 15:23ff. It is interesting to note that the citation comes from the Palestinian Syriac Lectionary and not from the ordinary Bible of the Syriac-speaking Churches. …The most interesting word is that rendered “Comforter†which we find in the Palestinian Lectionary, but all other Syriac versions render “paracleteâ€, following the Greek. This word was well established in the Hebrew and Aramaic speaking world. The menahhemana in Syriac means the lifegiver and especially one who raises from the dead. Obviously such a meaning is out of place here and what is meant is one who consoles and comforts people for the loss of one dear to them. This is the meaning in the Talmud and Targum. It ought to be pointed out that by the omission of the words “that is written†before “in the law†quite another meaning is given to the prophecy. The natural rendering would be “the word that concerns the Namus must be fulfilledâ€.
Guillaume is stating that the Ibn Ishaq quote is corrupted, i.e. inaccurate or tampered with. Ibn Ishaq recorded versions of history that he heard from sources he assumed to have some degree of reliability. However, they could have been mistaken or Ibn Ishaq could have altered the material to fit his understanding. Additionally, Ibn Ishaq often records conflicting versions of historical events. He would record historical information that he himself disagreed with, or doubted, in order to record plausible historic options.
First, let the New Testament texts speak for themselves. They clearly state that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit. There is no ambiguity about this. Consequently Muhammad is not the Comforter based upon what the Bible explicitly states.
Second let us take the context of the texts into account. If you are going to understand any passage of Scripture you must understand its context. When Jesus spoke these words in John it was His last ministerial time with His disciples prior to His death, crucifixion, and resurrection. Jesus is being very intimate with them. Understand then, when he speaks to them He is including them â€" these very disciples, specifically. These are the men He knew best and loved; they were His friends. These were His final words to them, and He wanted them to know what was in store.
Therefore, knowing that these passages of John are being spoken intimately between Jesus and His disciples there are several key points we can discover concerning the Comforter and His relationship with Jesus’ disciples.
John 14:16 â€" And I will ask the Father and He will give you another Comforter to be with you forever - the Spirit of Truth.
The Comforter will be with these disciples forever. Jesus promised the Comforter would be with these disciples forever. Muhammad could not be the Comforter because he wasn't born until over 500 years later - following the deaths of these disciples. He was born around 570 and died around 632 AD.
John 14:17 â€" But you know him for he lives with you and will be in you.
The Comforter lives with the disciples already now and will later be 'in' them. The Holy Spirit came to the disciples and indwelt them. Muhammad could not be the Comforter because first he wasn't around at the time when Jesus was speaking to his disciples nor second could he ever be in any of the disciples. The Greek word is 'en', and it means 'right inside'. Jesus is saying that the Comforter will be 'right inside' of the disciples.
John 14:26 â€" The Comforter is specifically described as the Holy Spirit. The Comforter is not a man. Muhammad could not be the Comforter because he was never the Holy Spirit.
John 14:26 â€" The Comforter will be sent in Jesus' name. The Holy Spirit represented the Lord on earth. No Muslim believes that Muhammad was sent by God in Jesus name. Muhammad did not come in Jesus' name, as the apostle of Jesus, rather he came in his own name with his own questionable “revelationsâ€.
John 14:26 â€" But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."
The Comforter will teach these disciples and remind them of what Christ said to them. As the early Christians grew the Holy Spirit taught them. Muhammad is not the Comforter because he never knew the disciples and he didn't teach these disciples, and Muhammad never reminded the disciples of what Christ said.
John 15:26 â€" When the Comforter comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.
The Comforter would be sent to these disciples. These disciples received the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost. Muhammad was never sent to these disciples.
John 16:13 â€" But when he, the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all truth.
The Comforter will guide these disciples into all truth. These disciples (and others) grew in the knowledge of God through the revelations from the Holy Spirit. Muhammad never guided these disciples into any truth.
John 16:13 â€" He will not speak on his own, he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
The Comforter will speak to these disciples. These disciples grew to know the leading of the Holy Spirit, i.e. they knew His voice. Muhammad never spoke to these disciples.
John 16:14 â€" He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.
The Comforter will take from Jesus and make it known to the disciples. Muhammad never knew Jesus and never took from Jesus and made it known to anyone.
The context of these passages shows clearly that Muhammad could not be the Comforter. Jesus was not speaking of another person to come at a later date. Jesus’ precious final words to His disciples were meant for them. Jesus was not merely preaching a sermon to be analyzed and intellectually talked about through the centuries, rather, He was giving His the disciples with Him there His final commands, love, and encouragement.
Here's a question for you to consider: In Islamic theology, Muhammad rendered Jesus’ message fulfilled or ended because Muhammad brought God’s latest message to the people. Muhammad expected that true believers in God would accept Islam. Therefore, if Jesus was foretelling Muhammad, wouldn’t Jesus be prophesying that his ministry will be rendered void by the Paraclete? Read the context of the passages and decide.
Further, to fulfill exactly what Jesus foretold concerning the Comforter and His relationship with the disciples, the New Testament records the fulfillment of the coming of the Holy Spirit and the disciples receiving Him. The disciples received the Comforter - the Holy Spirit, on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:3, 4. The Comforter was now “in†the disciples and He remained “in†them from then on and taught them â€" just as Jesus had said He would.
THE EARLY CHURCH’S VIEW OF THE COMFORTER
The writings of the early Church Fathers also mention the Comforter, or Paraclete. Below are some of their statements on His identity. These early Church Fathers lived during the first 3 centuries of Christianity.
Note: Quotes are taken from “The Ante-Nicene Fathers†edited by Rev. Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, AGES Software, Albany, Oregon© 1996, 1997 [5]
THE EPISTLE OF IGNATIUS TO THE PHILIPPIANS
Page 224
“What is His name, or what His Son’s name, that we may know?†And there is also one Paraclete. For “there is also,†saith [the Scripture], “one Spirit,†since “we have been called in one hope of our calling.†And again, “We have drunk of one Spirit,†with what follows. And it is manifest that all these gifts [possessed by believers] “worketh one and the self-same Spirit.†There are not then either three Fathers, or three Sons, or three Paracletes, but one Father, and one Son, and one Paraclete.
FRAGMENTS OF CLEMENS ALEXANDRINUS
Page 1155
The old things which were done by the prophets and escape the observation of most, are now revealed to you by the evangelists. “For to you,†he says, “they are manifested by the Holy Ghost, who was sent;†that is the Paraclete, of whom the Lord said, “If I go not away, He will not come.â€
TERTULLIAN AGAINST PRAXEAS;
Page 1083
He will come to judge the quick and the dead; who sent also from heaven from the Father, according to His own promise, the Holy Ghost, the Paraclete, the sanctifier of the faith of those who believe in the Father, and in the Son, and in the Holy Ghost.
Page 1094
Happily the Lord Himself employs this expression of the person of the Paraclete, so as to signify not a division or severance, but a disposition (of mutual relations in the Godhead); for He says, “I will pray the Father, and He shall send you another Comforter ... even the Spirit of truth,â€
ORIGEN DE PRINCIPIIS, BOOK 2, CHAPTER 7
ON THE HOLY SPIRIT
It is time, then, that we say a few words to the best of our ability regarding the Holy Spirit, whom our Lord and Savior in the Gospel according to John has named the Paraclete.
We must therefore know that the Paraclete is the Holy Spirit, who teaches truths ...
But the Paraclete, who is called the Holy Spirit, ...
In the case of the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete ...
Above are the statements of 4 of the Ante-Nicene Church Fathers. They state that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit. From the time of Jesus through the history of the early church the early Christians believed that the Comforter was the Holy Spirit. There was no confusion or uncertainty on their part regarding the identity of the Comforter.
QUESTIONS AND ASSERTIONS ABOUT THE COMFORTER
There exist some very good questions concerning the Comforter and these need to be answered. Also, there are some Muslim assertions that bear a closer examination. I will try to answer the questions, and assess the assertions.
1) QUESTION ON WHO JESUS MEANT BY “YOU†WHEN ADDRESSING THE DISCIPLES REGARDING THE COMFORTER
QUESTION:
Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad used to say 'you' to their followers but really it was a general expression for those who follow their teachings. For example, Jesus told his followers that they would see him coming back to the earth and all of them have since died. Couldn't Jesus have meant the disciples in general, specifically the future ones, when speaking about the Comforter?
ANSWER:
Examine John chapters 13 through 17. This was the time when Christ was alone with His disciples. His actions and dialog with them were very personal. He washed their feet, predicted His betrayal, comforted them, foretold the coming of the "Comforter", taught them about 'abiding' in Him, foretold tribulation for them, and said a most intimate prayer (chapter 17) for them and Himself. If you review all of this, you will see that Jesus was not speaking in a general term of 'you', to the possible exclusion of these men, but at the very least He was speaking to those with Him â€" His disciples. And later on they experienced what Jesus foretold â€" they “received†the Comforter.
I encourage all Muslims to read John chapters 13 through 17. Be sincere in your reading, ask God to guide you. You will see that Jesus was speaking very dearly to His disciples.
You are the only lair here you trash does not have anything to do with Ahamed Deedat . He made the bible for him self ? Always the saem shit , that you keep repeating many times i hope you read this and say it was from Ahamed deedat two , this is what the bible contian :
Women's vaginas taste like "wine"
If only you were to me like a brother, who was nursed at my mother's breasts! Then, if I found you outside, I would kiss you, and no one would despise me. I would lead you and bring you to my mother's house-- she who has taught me. I would give you spiced wine to drink [i.e., her vagina's semen!], the nectar of my pomegranates. His left arm is under my head and his right arm embraces me."
Your two breasts are like two fawns, like twin fawns of a gazelle that browse among the lilies."
"My lover is to me a sachet of myrrh resting between my breasts
"Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth-- for your love is more delightful than wine. Pleasing is the fragrance of your perfumes; your name is like perfume poured out. No wonder the maidens love you! Take me away with you--let us hurry! Let the king bring me into his chambers. We rejoice and delight in you; we will praise your love (i.e., semen) more than wine. How right they are to adore you!"
"How beautiful your sandaled feet, O prince's daughter! Your graceful legs are like jewels, the work of a craftsman's hands. Your navel is a rounded goblet that never lacks blended wine. Your waist is a mound of wheat encircled by lilies. Your breasts are like two fawns, twins of a gazelle. Your neck is like an ivory tower. Your eyes are the pools of Heshbon by the gate of Bath Rabbi.
.......
I said 'I will climb the palm tree; I will take hold of its fruit.' May your breasts be like the clusters of the vine, the fragrance of your breath like apples, and your mouth like the best wine
Tell me if Ahmed Deedat has anything to do with it.
This is in your bible , like it or not :
rophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the Old Testament:
The Qur’an mentions in Surah Al-Araf chapter 7 verse 157:
"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures) in the law and the Gospel".
1.
MUHAMMAD (PBUH) PROPHESISED IN THE BOOK OF DEUTERONOMY:
Almighty God speaks to Moses in Book of Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 18:
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."
The Christians say that this prophecy refers to Jesus (pbuh) because Jesus (pbuh) was like Moses (pbuh). Moses (pbuh) was a Jew, as well as Jesus (pbuh) was a Jew. Moses (pbuh) was a Prophet and Jesus (pbuh) was also a Prophet.
If these two are the only criteria for this prophecy to be fulfilled, then all the Prophets of the Bible who came after
Moses (pbuh) such as Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Malachi, John the Baptist, etc. (pbut) will
fulfill this prophecy since all were Jews as well as prophets.
However, it is Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is like Moses (pbuh):
i)
Both had a father and a mother, while Jesus (pbuh) was born miraculously without any male intervention.
[Mathew 1:18 and Luke 1:35 and also Al-Qur'an 3:42-47]
ii)
Both were married and had children. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not marry nor had children.
iii)
Both died natural deaths. Jesus (pbuh) has been raised up alive. (4:157-158)
Muhammad (pbuh) is from among the brethren of Moses (pbuh). Arabs are brethren of Jews. Abraham (pbuh) had two sons: Ishmail and Isaac (pbut). The Arabs are the descendants of Ishmail (pbuh) and the Jews are the descendants of Isaac (pbuh).
Words in the mouth:
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was unlettered and whatever revelations he received from Almighty God he repeated them verbatim.
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."
[Deuteronomy 18:18]
iv)
Both besides being Prophets were also kings i.e. they could inflict capital punishment. Jesus (pbuh) said, "My kingdom is not of this world." (John 18:36).
v)
Both were accepted as Prophets by their people in their lifetime but Jesus (pbuh) was rejected by his
people. John chapter 1 verse 11 states, "He came unto his own, but his own received him not."
iv)
Both brought new laws and new regulations for their people. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not bring any new laws. (Mathew 5:17-18).
2.
It is Mentioned in the book of Deuteronomy chapter 18:19
"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not harken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him."
3.
Muhammad (pbuh) is prophesised in the book of Isaiah:
It is mentioned in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12:
"And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned."
When Archangel Gabrail commanded Muhammad (pbuh) by saying Iqra - "Read", he replied, "I am not learned".
4.
prophet Muhammad (pbuh) mentioned by name in the old testament:
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomon chapter 5 verse 16:
"Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem."
"His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters
of Jerusalem."
In the Hebrew language im is added for respect. Similarely im is added after the name of Prophet Muhammad
(pbuh) to make it Muhammadim. In English translation they have even translated the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as "altogether lovely", but in the Old Testament in Hebrew, the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is yet present.
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the New Testament:
Al-Qur'an Chapter 61 Verse 6:
"And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said, 'O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me and giving glad tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmed.' But when he came to them with clear signs, they said, 'This is evident sorcery!' "
All the prophecies mentioned in the Old Testament regarding Muhammad (pbuh) besides applying to the Jews also hold good for the Christians.
1.
John chapter 14 verse 16:
"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever."
2.
Gospel of John chapter 15 verse 26:
"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which
proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me."
3.
Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 7:
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".
"Ahmed" or "Muhammad" meaning "the one who praises" or "the praised one" is almost the translation of the
Greek word Periclytos. In the Gospel of John 14:16, 15:26, and 16:7. The word 'Comforter' is used in the English translation for the Greek word Paracletos which means advocate or a kind friend rather than a comforter.
Paracletos is the warped reading for Periclytos. Jesus (pbuh) actually prophesised Ahmed by name. Even the
Greek word Paraclete refers to the Prophet (pbuh) who is a mercy for all creatures.
Some Christians say that the Comforter mentioned in these prophecies refers to the Holy Sprit. They fail to realise
that the prophecy clearly says that only if Jesus (pbuh) departs will the Comforter come. The Bible states that the
Holy Spirit was already present on earth before and during the time of Jesus (pbuh), in the womb of Elizabeth, and again when Jesus (pbuh) was being baptised, etc. Hence this prophecy refers to none other than Prophet
Muhammad (pbuh).
4.
Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 12-14:
"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is
come, he will guide you unto all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me".
The Sprit of Truth, spoken about in this prophecy referes to none other than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
NOTE: All quotations of the Bible are taken from the King James Version.
Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: "This is from God," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. (The Noble Quran, 2:79)"
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 12, 2011, 04:04:03 PM
Quote from: Peter on January 10, 2011, 06:19:08 AM
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 05:53:07 PM
WE ARE NOT PRAYING FOR BACLKSTONE . I SAID MANY TIMES THAT WE ARE PRAYING TOWARD THE KAABAH (QBLAH).
That's right. You prostrate yourself 5 times a day to the Quraish's pagan kaaba that was built to house 360 idols.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 05:53:07 PM
What About you , have you gone to a church, ........
The term "church" comes from a German word that indicates a building. The concept is something that Constantine is credited with starting like so much other error he introduced.
http://www.therealchurch.com/articles/the_word_that_changed_the_world.html
Those that follow the Messiah, Jesus Christ, are what is called the "ecclesia" or "assembly of the called out". We are called out of this world and into the kingdom of God.
The archaeological evidence tells us that in the first century Christians generally assembled in homes, the way much of Christ's true church assembles today. But our "church" can be as simple as two Christians assembled under a shade tree.
Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Yeshua's people ARE His temple.
John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21 But he spake of the temple of his body. 22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
You see, Jesus rebuilt the temple in 3 days through His crucifixion, death and resurrection.
1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
We are filled with the Comforter - the Holy Spirit
1Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
So wherever we assemble IS the church.
Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
It's a tragedy that something like 20 billion dollars a year goes to building and maintaining "church" structures. That money could otherwise be used for things like feeding starving Africans, and perhaps even liberating them from their evil Islamic oppressors and murderers.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/great_tribulation.htm
"Once again, women are the targets. In mid-March, rebels (aka true followers of Mohammed) assaulted three women gathering firewood and cut off their ears, lips, and breasts."
"Starting in 2003, Janjaweed Arabs (aka Muslims), a Sudan-backed militia, have driven 2 million villagers from their homes in ethnic-cleansing attacks designed to suppress local rebels."
"Eyewitness accounts detailing the militia attacks are horrifying. "They killed my 3-year-old son right in front of my eyes," one father from West Darfur said. Since last fall, women have reported more than 500 rapes. Three women said five militiamen beat and raped them last August. The women said, "After they abused us, they told us that now we would have Arab babies. And, if they would find any [more] women, they would rape them again to change the color of their children.""
Persecution in Africa (http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=christians+persecuted+africa&aq=&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=83f87efc6f926f13) But of course Christians are persecuted all over the world.
2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
More on the temple of God http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=552.0
More on the home church (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&expIds=17259,26767,27955,28057&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=home+church&cp=3&pf=p&sclient=psy&aq=0c&aqi=&aql=&oq=hom+church&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=83f87efc6f926f13)
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 05:53:07 PM....... did you see the idols in it , or the idols of men in the west for men . Be serious
See you later
The idolatry that you mention is of Constantines Roman church. Same guy that began the concept of a "church" as being a building. Same group that started the Mary worship that Mohammed seems to have appreciated.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=75.msg1679#msg1679
But bowing to and venerating statues is not REQUIRED even in the Roman Church.
So since you are required to prostrate yourself to the Quraish's black stone idol you are far worse shape.
The idols came later to it , it has nothing to do with , Kaaba ,.....
I see. So then you are saying that Mohammed brought the black stone idol to the Kaaba and that the Quraish pagans didn't venerate it before Mohammed did?
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 12, 2011, 04:04:03 PM,.... the same for your trash , do not throw trash , this thing that is called temple was not rebuilted by anyone ,.....
So then even you believe that your books are nothing but lies. Finally something we agree on.
Sahih Muslim Book 007, Number 3078:
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Messenger may peace be upon him) said to me: Had your people not been unbelievers in the recent past (had they not quite recently accepted Islam), I would have demolished the Ka'ba and would have rebuilt it on the foundation (laid) by Ibrahim;
for when the Quraish had built the Ka'ba, they reduced its (area), and I would also have built (a door) in the rear.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 08, 2011, 05:53:07 PM....... tell me where is you eye witness , do not Quote as Clear prove becasue it nothing but mere shit , who is wrttien by some calling himself Yhwh or Yahoo , you pathetic believers of pagan religon .
It's called the hadith.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 12, 2011, 03:57:04 PM
Quote from: resistingrexmundi on January 10, 2011, 08:14:45 AM
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 10, 2011, 02:57:06 AM
No i am not drudging anyone , Deedat May Allah bless him is Greator than you . And surely i watch his debate with Christians
Lol . The Comoforter is Mohamed PEACE BE UPON HIM and again Caomforter is also an english word , jesus , Peter is Greek , Pual is Greek . I have some doubt too , but still why he will do that , it does not make any difference if Mohamed was said in Armemine , the lanuage if Jesus peace be upon him . if you watch careful you will hear , that he was saying it when was speaking about the "Comforter " . So are you saying the Holy Spirit he name called The most praised when transleted to english . If so, then you solved what Muslims and Christian were aruging about .
Your opinion of Deedat is of no relevance to me. He was a liar who made up his own verse by adding words to Scripture to keep his Bible ignorant minions in the dark. And I have already told you it doesn't matter what was said in a MOVIE because that is what it was. A MOVIE.
The translator (Abdul Hamid Siddiqi) of Sahih Muslim notes that this is in reference to the 'Comforter' that Jesus spoke of.
In the Sirat Rasulallah, the earliest extant biography of Muhammad written by Ibn Ishaq, a specific claim is made asserting that Muhammad is the Comforter. On pages 103 and 104 of Guillaume's translation (The Life of Muhammad), the alleged prediction is described. Ishaq's work mis-quotes the New Testament and takes it out of context, and references several non-biblical works in his support as proof. Below is part of the quote from “The Life of Muhammadâ€, pages 103, 104: [4]
Among the things which have reached me about what Jesus the Son of Mary stated in the Gospel which he received from God for the followers of the Gospel, in applying a term to describe the apostle of God, is the following. It is extracted from what John the Apostle set down for them when he wrote the Gospel for them from the Testament of Jesus Son of Mary: ...â€But when the Comforter has come whom God will send to you from the Lord’s presence, and the spirit of truth which will have gone forth form the Lord’s presence he (shall bear) witness of me and ye also, because ye have been with me from the beginning. I have spoken unto you about this that ye should not be in doubt.†The Munahhemana (God bless and preserve him!) in Syriac is Muhammad: in Greek he is the paraclete.
Guillaume notes that,
“The passage quoted is John 15:23ff. It is interesting to note that the citation comes from the Palestinian Syriac Lectionary and not from the ordinary Bible of the Syriac-speaking Churches. …The most interesting word is that rendered “Comforter†which we find in the Palestinian Lectionary, but all other Syriac versions render “paracleteâ€, following the Greek. This word was well established in the Hebrew and Aramaic speaking world. The menahhemana in Syriac means the lifegiver and especially one who raises from the dead. Obviously such a meaning is out of place here and what is meant is one who consoles and comforts people for the loss of one dear to them. This is the meaning in the Talmud and Targum. It ought to be pointed out that by the omission of the words “that is written†before “in the law†quite another meaning is given to the prophecy. The natural rendering would be “the word that concerns the Namus must be fulfilledâ€.
Guillaume is stating that the Ibn Ishaq quote is corrupted, i.e. inaccurate or tampered with. Ibn Ishaq recorded versions of history that he heard from sources he assumed to have some degree of reliability. However, they could have been mistaken or Ibn Ishaq could have altered the material to fit his understanding. Additionally, Ibn Ishaq often records conflicting versions of historical events. He would record historical information that he himself disagreed with, or doubted, in order to record plausible historic options.
First, let the New Testament texts speak for themselves. They clearly state that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit. There is no ambiguity about this. Consequently Muhammad is not the Comforter based upon what the Bible explicitly states.
Second let us take the context of the texts into account. If you are going to understand any passage of Scripture you must understand its context. When Jesus spoke these words in John it was His last ministerial time with His disciples prior to His death, crucifixion, and resurrection. Jesus is being very intimate with them. Understand then, when he speaks to them He is including them â€" these very disciples, specifically. These are the men He knew best and loved; they were His friends. These were His final words to them, and He wanted them to know what was in store.
Therefore, knowing that these passages of John are being spoken intimately between Jesus and His disciples there are several key points we can discover concerning the Comforter and His relationship with Jesus’ disciples.
John 14:16 â€" And I will ask the Father and He will give you another Comforter to be with you forever - the Spirit of Truth.
The Comforter will be with these disciples forever. Jesus promised the Comforter would be with these disciples forever. Muhammad could not be the Comforter because he wasn't born until over 500 years later - following the deaths of these disciples. He was born around 570 and died around 632 AD.
John 14:17 â€" But you know him for he lives with you and will be in you.
The Comforter lives with the disciples already now and will later be 'in' them. The Holy Spirit came to the disciples and indwelt them. Muhammad could not be the Comforter because first he wasn't around at the time when Jesus was speaking to his disciples nor second could he ever be in any of the disciples. The Greek word is 'en', and it means 'right inside'. Jesus is saying that the Comforter will be 'right inside' of the disciples.
John 14:26 â€" The Comforter is specifically described as the Holy Spirit. The Comforter is not a man. Muhammad could not be the Comforter because he was never the Holy Spirit.
John 14:26 â€" The Comforter will be sent in Jesus' name. The Holy Spirit represented the Lord on earth. No Muslim believes that Muhammad was sent by God in Jesus name. Muhammad did not come in Jesus' name, as the apostle of Jesus, rather he came in his own name with his own questionable “revelationsâ€.
John 14:26 â€" But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."
The Comforter will teach these disciples and remind them of what Christ said to them. As the early Christians grew the Holy Spirit taught them. Muhammad is not the Comforter because he never knew the disciples and he didn't teach these disciples, and Muhammad never reminded the disciples of what Christ said.
John 15:26 â€" When the Comforter comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.
The Comforter would be sent to these disciples. These disciples received the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost. Muhammad was never sent to these disciples.
John 16:13 â€" But when he, the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all truth.
The Comforter will guide these disciples into all truth. These disciples (and others) grew in the knowledge of God through the revelations from the Holy Spirit. Muhammad never guided these disciples into any truth.
John 16:13 â€" He will not speak on his own, he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
The Comforter will speak to these disciples. These disciples grew to know the leading of the Holy Spirit, i.e. they knew His voice. Muhammad never spoke to these disciples.
John 16:14 â€" He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.
The Comforter will take from Jesus and make it known to the disciples. Muhammad never knew Jesus and never took from Jesus and made it known to anyone.
The context of these passages shows clearly that Muhammad could not be the Comforter. Jesus was not speaking of another person to come at a later date. Jesus’ precious final words to His disciples were meant for them. Jesus was not merely preaching a sermon to be analyzed and intellectually talked about through the centuries, rather, He was giving His the disciples with Him there His final commands, love, and encouragement.
Here's a question for you to consider: In Islamic theology, Muhammad rendered Jesus’ message fulfilled or ended because Muhammad brought God’s latest message to the people. Muhammad expected that true believers in God would accept Islam. Therefore, if Jesus was foretelling Muhammad, wouldn’t Jesus be prophesying that his ministry will be rendered void by the Paraclete? Read the context of the passages and decide.
Further, to fulfill exactly what Jesus foretold concerning the Comforter and His relationship with the disciples, the New Testament records the fulfillment of the coming of the Holy Spirit and the disciples receiving Him. The disciples received the Comforter - the Holy Spirit, on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:3, 4. The Comforter was now “in†the disciples and He remained “in†them from then on and taught them â€" just as Jesus had said He would.
THE EARLY CHURCH’S VIEW OF THE COMFORTER
The writings of the early Church Fathers also mention the Comforter, or Paraclete. Below are some of their statements on His identity. These early Church Fathers lived during the first 3 centuries of Christianity.
Note: Quotes are taken from “The Ante-Nicene Fathers†edited by Rev. Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, AGES Software, Albany, Oregon© 1996, 1997 [5]
THE EPISTLE OF IGNATIUS TO THE PHILIPPIANS
Page 224
“What is His name, or what His Son’s name, that we may know?†And there is also one Paraclete. For “there is also,†saith [the Scripture], “one Spirit,†since “we have been called in one hope of our calling.†And again, “We have drunk of one Spirit,†with what follows. And it is manifest that all these gifts [possessed by believers] “worketh one and the self-same Spirit.†There are not then either three Fathers, or three Sons, or three Paracletes, but one Father, and one Son, and one Paraclete.
FRAGMENTS OF CLEMENS ALEXANDRINUS
Page 1155
The old things which were done by the prophets and escape the observation of most, are now revealed to you by the evangelists. “For to you,†he says, “they are manifested by the Holy Ghost, who was sent;†that is the Paraclete, of whom the Lord said, “If I go not away, He will not come.â€
TERTULLIAN AGAINST PRAXEAS;
Page 1083
He will come to judge the quick and the dead; who sent also from heaven from the Father, according to His own promise, the Holy Ghost, the Paraclete, the sanctifier of the faith of those who believe in the Father, and in the Son, and in the Holy Ghost.
Page 1094
Happily the Lord Himself employs this expression of the person of the Paraclete, so as to signify not a division or severance, but a disposition (of mutual relations in the Godhead); for He says, “I will pray the Father, and He shall send you another Comforter ... even the Spirit of truth,â€
ORIGEN DE PRINCIPIIS, BOOK 2, CHAPTER 7
ON THE HOLY SPIRIT
It is time, then, that we say a few words to the best of our ability regarding the Holy Spirit, whom our Lord and Savior in the Gospel according to John has named the Paraclete.
We must therefore know that the Paraclete is the Holy Spirit, who teaches truths ...
But the Paraclete, who is called the Holy Spirit, ...
In the case of the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete ...
Above are the statements of 4 of the Ante-Nicene Church Fathers. They state that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit. From the time of Jesus through the history of the early church the early Christians believed that the Comforter was the Holy Spirit. There was no confusion or uncertainty on their part regarding the identity of the Comforter.
QUESTIONS AND ASSERTIONS ABOUT THE COMFORTER
There exist some very good questions concerning the Comforter and these need to be answered. Also, there are some Muslim assertions that bear a closer examination. I will try to answer the questions, and assess the assertions.
1) QUESTION ON WHO JESUS MEANT BY “YOU†WHEN ADDRESSING THE DISCIPLES REGARDING THE COMFORTER
QUESTION:
Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad used to say 'you' to their followers but really it was a general expression for those who follow their teachings. For example, Jesus told his followers that they would see him coming back to the earth and all of them have since died. Couldn't Jesus have meant the disciples in general, specifically the future ones, when speaking about the Comforter?
ANSWER:
Examine John chapters 13 through 17. This was the time when Christ was alone with His disciples. His actions and dialog with them were very personal. He washed their feet, predicted His betrayal, comforted them, foretold the coming of the "Comforter", taught them about 'abiding' in Him, foretold tribulation for them, and said a most intimate prayer (chapter 17) for them and Himself. If you review all of this, you will see that Jesus was not speaking in a general term of 'you', to the possible exclusion of these men, but at the very least He was speaking to those with Him â€" His disciples. And later on they experienced what Jesus foretold â€" they “received†the Comforter.
I encourage all Muslims to read John chapters 13 through 17. Be sincere in your reading, ask God to guide you. You will see that Jesus was speaking very dearly to His disciples.
You are the only lair here you trash does not have anything to do with Ahamed Deedat . He made the bible for him self ? Always the saem shit , that you keep repeating many times i hope you read this and say it was from Ahamed deedat two , this is what the bible contian :
Women's vaginas taste like "wine"
If only you were to me like a brother, who was nursed at my mother's breasts! Then, if I found you outside, I would kiss you, and no one would despise me. I would lead you and bring you to my mother's house-- she who has taught me. I would give you spiced wine to drink [i.e., her vagina's semen!], the nectar of my pomegranates. His left arm is under my head and his right arm embraces me."
Your two breasts are like two fawns, like twin fawns of a gazelle that browse among the lilies."
"My lover is to me a sachet of myrrh resting between my breasts
"Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth-- for your love is more delightful than wine. Pleasing is the fragrance of your perfumes; your name is like perfume poured out. No wonder the maidens love you! Take me away with you--let us hurry! Let the king bring me into his chambers. We rejoice and delight in you; we will praise your love (i.e., semen) more than wine. How right they are to adore you!"
"How beautiful your sandaled feet, O prince's daughter! Your graceful legs are like jewels, the work of a craftsman's hands. Your navel is a rounded goblet that never lacks blended wine. Your waist is a mound of wheat encircled by lilies. Your breasts are like two fawns, twins of a gazelle. Your neck is like an ivory tower. Your eyes are the pools of Heshbon by the gate of Bath Rabbi.
.......
I said 'I will climb the palm tree; I will take hold of its fruit.' May your breasts be like the clusters of the vine, the fragrance of your breath like apples, and your mouth like the best wine
Tell me if Ahmed Deedat has anything to do with it.
This is in your bible , like it or not :
rophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the Old Testament:
The Qur’an mentions in Surah Al-Araf chapter 7 verse 157:
"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures) in the law and the Gospel".
1.
MUHAMMAD (PBUH) PROPHESISED IN THE BOOK OF DEUTERONOMY:
Almighty God speaks to Moses in Book of Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 18:
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."
The Christians say that this prophecy refers to Jesus (pbuh) because Jesus (pbuh) was like Moses (pbuh). Moses (pbuh) was a Jew, as well as Jesus (pbuh) was a Jew. Moses (pbuh) was a Prophet and Jesus (pbuh) was also a Prophet.
If these two are the only criteria for this prophecy to be fulfilled, then all the Prophets of the Bible who came after
Moses (pbuh) such as Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Malachi, John the Baptist, etc. (pbut) will
fulfill this prophecy since all were Jews as well as prophets.
However, it is Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is like Moses (pbuh):
i)
Both had a father and a mother, while Jesus (pbuh) was born miraculously without any male intervention.
[Mathew 1:18 and Luke 1:35 and also Al-Qur'an 3:42-47]
ii)
Both were married and had children. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not marry nor had children.
iii)
Both died natural deaths. Jesus (pbuh) has been raised up alive. (4:157-158)
Muhammad (pbuh) is from among the brethren of Moses (pbuh). Arabs are brethren of Jews. Abraham (pbuh) had two sons: Ishmail and Isaac (pbut). The Arabs are the descendants of Ishmail (pbuh) and the Jews are the descendants of Isaac (pbuh).
Words in the mouth:
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was unlettered and whatever revelations he received from Almighty God he repeated them verbatim.
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."
[Deuteronomy 18:18]
iv)
Both besides being Prophets were also kings i.e. they could inflict capital punishment. Jesus (pbuh) said, "My kingdom is not of this world." (John 18:36).
v)
Both were accepted as Prophets by their people in their lifetime but Jesus (pbuh) was rejected by his
people. John chapter 1 verse 11 states, "He came unto his own, but his own received him not."
iv)
Both brought new laws and new regulations for their people. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not bring any new laws. (Mathew 5:17-18).
2.
It is Mentioned in the book of Deuteronomy chapter 18:19
"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not harken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him."
3.
Muhammad (pbuh) is prophesised in the book of Isaiah:
It is mentioned in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12:
"And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned."
When Archangel Gabrail commanded Muhammad (pbuh) by saying Iqra - "Read", he replied, "I am not learned".
4.
prophet Muhammad (pbuh) mentioned by name in the old testament:
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomon chapter 5 verse 16:
"Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem."
"His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters
of Jerusalem."
In the Hebrew language im is added for respect. Similarely im is added after the name of Prophet Muhammad
(pbuh) to make it Muhammadim. In English translation they have even translated the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as "altogether lovely", but in the Old Testament in Hebrew, the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is yet present.
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the New Testament:
Al-Qur'an Chapter 61 Verse 6:
"And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said, 'O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me and giving glad tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmed.' But when he came to them with clear signs, they said, 'This is evident sorcery!' "
All the prophecies mentioned in the Old Testament regarding Muhammad (pbuh) besides applying to the Jews also hold good for the Christians.
1.
John chapter 14 verse 16:
"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever."
2.
Gospel of John chapter 15 verse 26:
"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which
proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me."
3.
Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 7:
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".
"Ahmed" or "Muhammad" meaning "the one who praises" or "the praised one" is almost the translation of the
Greek word Periclytos. In the Gospel of John 14:16, 15:26, and 16:7. The word 'Comforter' is used in the English translation for the Greek word Paracletos which means advocate or a kind friend rather than a comforter.
Paracletos is the warped reading for Periclytos. Jesus (pbuh) actually prophesised Ahmed by name. Even the
Greek word Paraclete refers to the Prophet (pbuh) who is a mercy for all creatures.
Some Christians say that the Comforter mentioned in these prophecies refers to the Holy Sprit. They fail to realise
that the prophecy clearly says that only if Jesus (pbuh) departs will the Comforter come. The Bible states that the
Holy Spirit was already present on earth before and during the time of Jesus (pbuh), in the womb of Elizabeth, and again when Jesus (pbuh) was being baptised, etc. Hence this prophecy refers to none other than Prophet
Muhammad (pbuh).
4.
Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 12-14:
"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is
come, he will guide you unto all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me".
The Sprit of Truth, spoken about in this prophecy referes to none other than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
NOTE: All quotations of the Bible are taken from the King James Version.
Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: "This is from God," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. (The Noble Quran, 2:79)"
Perhaps there were too many words for someone who seems to share his prophet's level of literacy. Let's try it in one verse that maybe even Mohammed could have read.
Jhn 14:26 But
the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
A fuller explanation you have already been given and this subject has it's own thread.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=224.0
Beyond the fact that it's preposterous to suggest that Jesus was talking about
a 7th century antichrist to follow him in any but the relevant verses regarding false prophets.
All this nonsense in your head has EVERYTHING to do with Admed Deedat and his foolish lies.
Do not put another post in here that has multiple subjects.
We are used to Mohammedans putting in a one line answer semi-related to what's quoted, and then a long page of unrelated blasphemy. That stops now. I moved the post with the unrelated material to the related thread. If you do it again your post will go to spam until you separate the topics into individual posts.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 12, 2011, 03:57:04 PM
Quote from: resistingrexmundi on January 10, 2011, 08:14:45 AM
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 10, 2011, 02:57:06 AM
No i am not drudging anyone , Deedat May Allah bless him is Greator than you . And surely i watch his debate with Christians
Lol . The Comoforter is Mohamed PEACE BE UPON HIM and again Caomforter is also an english word , jesus , Peter is Greek , Pual is Greek . I have some doubt too , but still why he will do that , it does not make any difference if Mohamed was said in Armemine , the lanuage if Jesus peace be upon him . if you watch careful you will hear , that he was saying it when was speaking about the "Comforter " . So are you saying the Holy Spirit he name called The most praised when transleted to english . If so, then you solved what Muslims and Christian were aruging about .
Your opinion of Deedat is of no relevance to me. He was a liar who made up his own verse by adding words to Scripture to keep his Bible ignorant minions in the dark. And I have already told you it doesn't matter what was said in a MOVIE because that is what it was. A MOVIE.
The translator (Abdul Hamid Siddiqi) of Sahih Muslim notes that this is in reference to the 'Comforter' that Jesus spoke of.
In the Sirat Rasulallah, the earliest extant biography of Muhammad written by Ibn Ishaq, a specific claim is made asserting that Muhammad is the Comforter. On pages 103 and 104 of Guillaume's translation (The Life of Muhammad), the alleged prediction is described. Ishaq's work mis-quotes the New Testament and takes it out of context, and references several non-biblical works in his support as proof. Below is part of the quote from “The Life of Muhammadâ€, pages 103, 104: [4]
Among the things which have reached me about what Jesus the Son of Mary stated in the Gospel which he received from God for the followers of the Gospel, in applying a term to describe the apostle of God, is the following. It is extracted from what John the Apostle set down for them when he wrote the Gospel for them from the Testament of Jesus Son of Mary: ...â€But when the Comforter has come whom God will send to you from the Lord’s presence, and the spirit of truth which will have gone forth form the Lord’s presence he (shall bear) witness of me and ye also, because ye have been with me from the beginning. I have spoken unto you about this that ye should not be in doubt.†The Munahhemana (God bless and preserve him!) in Syriac is Muhammad: in Greek he is the paraclete.
Guillaume notes that,
“The passage quoted is John 15:23ff. It is interesting to note that the citation comes from the Palestinian Syriac Lectionary and not from the ordinary Bible of the Syriac-speaking Churches. …The most interesting word is that rendered “Comforter†which we find in the Palestinian Lectionary, but all other Syriac versions render “paracleteâ€, following the Greek. This word was well established in the Hebrew and Aramaic speaking world. The menahhemana in Syriac means the lifegiver and especially one who raises from the dead. Obviously such a meaning is out of place here and what is meant is one who consoles and comforts people for the loss of one dear to them. This is the meaning in the Talmud and Targum. It ought to be pointed out that by the omission of the words “that is written†before “in the law†quite another meaning is given to the prophecy. The natural rendering would be “the word that concerns the Namus must be fulfilledâ€.
Guillaume is stating that the Ibn Ishaq quote is corrupted, i.e. inaccurate or tampered with. Ibn Ishaq recorded versions of history that he heard from sources he assumed to have some degree of reliability. However, they could have been mistaken or Ibn Ishaq could have altered the material to fit his understanding. Additionally, Ibn Ishaq often records conflicting versions of historical events. He would record historical information that he himself disagreed with, or doubted, in order to record plausible historic options.
First, let the New Testament texts speak for themselves. They clearly state that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit. There is no ambiguity about this. Consequently Muhammad is not the Comforter based upon what the Bible explicitly states.
Second let us take the context of the texts into account. If you are going to understand any passage of Scripture you must understand its context. When Jesus spoke these words in John it was His last ministerial time with His disciples prior to His death, crucifixion, and resurrection. Jesus is being very intimate with them. Understand then, when he speaks to them He is including them â€" these very disciples, specifically. These are the men He knew best and loved; they were His friends. These were His final words to them, and He wanted them to know what was in store.
Therefore, knowing that these passages of John are being spoken intimately between Jesus and His disciples there are several key points we can discover concerning the Comforter and His relationship with Jesus’ disciples.
John 14:16 â€" And I will ask the Father and He will give you another Comforter to be with you forever - the Spirit of Truth.
The Comforter will be with these disciples forever. Jesus promised the Comforter would be with these disciples forever. Muhammad could not be the Comforter because he wasn't born until over 500 years later - following the deaths of these disciples. He was born around 570 and died around 632 AD.
John 14:17 â€" But you know him for he lives with you and will be in you.
The Comforter lives with the disciples already now and will later be 'in' them. The Holy Spirit came to the disciples and indwelt them. Muhammad could not be the Comforter because first he wasn't around at the time when Jesus was speaking to his disciples nor second could he ever be in any of the disciples. The Greek word is 'en', and it means 'right inside'. Jesus is saying that the Comforter will be 'right inside' of the disciples.
John 14:26 â€" The Comforter is specifically described as the Holy Spirit. The Comforter is not a man. Muhammad could not be the Comforter because he was never the Holy Spirit.
John 14:26 â€" The Comforter will be sent in Jesus' name. The Holy Spirit represented the Lord on earth. No Muslim believes that Muhammad was sent by God in Jesus name. Muhammad did not come in Jesus' name, as the apostle of Jesus, rather he came in his own name with his own questionable “revelationsâ€.
John 14:26 â€" But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."
The Comforter will teach these disciples and remind them of what Christ said to them. As the early Christians grew the Holy Spirit taught them. Muhammad is not the Comforter because he never knew the disciples and he didn't teach these disciples, and Muhammad never reminded the disciples of what Christ said.
John 15:26 â€" When the Comforter comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.
The Comforter would be sent to these disciples. These disciples received the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost. Muhammad was never sent to these disciples.
John 16:13 â€" But when he, the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all truth.
The Comforter will guide these disciples into all truth. These disciples (and others) grew in the knowledge of God through the revelations from the Holy Spirit. Muhammad never guided these disciples into any truth.
John 16:13 â€" He will not speak on his own, he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
The Comforter will speak to these disciples. These disciples grew to know the leading of the Holy Spirit, i.e. they knew His voice. Muhammad never spoke to these disciples.
John 16:14 â€" He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.
The Comforter will take from Jesus and make it known to the disciples. Muhammad never knew Jesus and never took from Jesus and made it known to anyone.
The context of these passages shows clearly that Muhammad could not be the Comforter. Jesus was not speaking of another person to come at a later date. Jesus’ precious final words to His disciples were meant for them. Jesus was not merely preaching a sermon to be analyzed and intellectually talked about through the centuries, rather, He was giving His the disciples with Him there His final commands, love, and encouragement.
Here's a question for you to consider: In Islamic theology, Muhammad rendered Jesus’ message fulfilled or ended because Muhammad brought God’s latest message to the people. Muhammad expected that true believers in God would accept Islam. Therefore, if Jesus was foretelling Muhammad, wouldn’t Jesus be prophesying that his ministry will be rendered void by the Paraclete? Read the context of the passages and decide.
Further, to fulfill exactly what Jesus foretold concerning the Comforter and His relationship with the disciples, the New Testament records the fulfillment of the coming of the Holy Spirit and the disciples receiving Him. The disciples received the Comforter - the Holy Spirit, on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:3, 4. The Comforter was now “in†the disciples and He remained “in†them from then on and taught them â€" just as Jesus had said He would.
THE EARLY CHURCH’S VIEW OF THE COMFORTER
The writings of the early Church Fathers also mention the Comforter, or Paraclete. Below are some of their statements on His identity. These early Church Fathers lived during the first 3 centuries of Christianity.
Note: Quotes are taken from “The Ante-Nicene Fathers†edited by Rev. Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, AGES Software, Albany, Oregon© 1996, 1997 [5]
THE EPISTLE OF IGNATIUS TO THE PHILIPPIANS
Page 224
“What is His name, or what His Son’s name, that we may know?†And there is also one Paraclete. For “there is also,†saith [the Scripture], “one Spirit,†since “we have been called in one hope of our calling.†And again, “We have drunk of one Spirit,†with what follows. And it is manifest that all these gifts [possessed by believers] “worketh one and the self-same Spirit.†There are not then either three Fathers, or three Sons, or three Paracletes, but one Father, and one Son, and one Paraclete.
FRAGMENTS OF CLEMENS ALEXANDRINUS
Page 1155
The old things which were done by the prophets and escape the observation of most, are now revealed to you by the evangelists. “For to you,†he says, “they are manifested by the Holy Ghost, who was sent;†that is the Paraclete, of whom the Lord said, “If I go not away, He will not come.â€
TERTULLIAN AGAINST PRAXEAS;
Page 1083
He will come to judge the quick and the dead; who sent also from heaven from the Father, according to His own promise, the Holy Ghost, the Paraclete, the sanctifier of the faith of those who believe in the Father, and in the Son, and in the Holy Ghost.
Page 1094
Happily the Lord Himself employs this expression of the person of the Paraclete, so as to signify not a division or severance, but a disposition (of mutual relations in the Godhead); for He says, “I will pray the Father, and He shall send you another Comforter ... even the Spirit of truth,â€
ORIGEN DE PRINCIPIIS, BOOK 2, CHAPTER 7
ON THE HOLY SPIRIT
It is time, then, that we say a few words to the best of our ability regarding the Holy Spirit, whom our Lord and Savior in the Gospel according to John has named the Paraclete.
We must therefore know that the Paraclete is the Holy Spirit, who teaches truths ...
But the Paraclete, who is called the Holy Spirit, ...
In the case of the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete ...
Above are the statements of 4 of the Ante-Nicene Church Fathers. They state that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit. From the time of Jesus through the history of the early church the early Christians believed that the Comforter was the Holy Spirit. There was no confusion or uncertainty on their part regarding the identity of the Comforter.
QUESTIONS AND ASSERTIONS ABOUT THE COMFORTER
There exist some very good questions concerning the Comforter and these need to be answered. Also, there are some Muslim assertions that bear a closer examination. I will try to answer the questions, and assess the assertions.
1) QUESTION ON WHO JESUS MEANT BY “YOU†WHEN ADDRESSING THE DISCIPLES REGARDING THE COMFORTER
QUESTION:
Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad used to say 'you' to their followers but really it was a general expression for those who follow their teachings. For example, Jesus told his followers that they would see him coming back to the earth and all of them have since died. Couldn't Jesus have meant the disciples in general, specifically the future ones, when speaking about the Comforter?
ANSWER:
Examine John chapters 13 through 17. This was the time when Christ was alone with His disciples. His actions and dialog with them were very personal. He washed their feet, predicted His betrayal, comforted them, foretold the coming of the "Comforter", taught them about 'abiding' in Him, foretold tribulation for them, and said a most intimate prayer (chapter 17) for them and Himself. If you review all of this, you will see that Jesus was not speaking in a general term of 'you', to the possible exclusion of these men, but at the very least He was speaking to those with Him â€" His disciples. And later on they experienced what Jesus foretold â€" they “received†the Comforter.
I encourage all Muslims to read John chapters 13 through 17. Be sincere in your reading, ask God to guide you. You will see that Jesus was speaking very dearly to His disciples.
You are the only lair here you trash does not have anything to do with Ahamed Deedat . He made the bible for him self ? Always the saem shit , that you keep repeating many times i hope you read this and say it was from Ahamed deedat two , this is what the bible contian :
Women's vaginas taste like "wine"
If only you were to me like a brother, who was nursed at my mother's breasts! Then, if I found you outside, I would kiss you, and no one would despise me. I would lead you and bring you to my mother's house-- she who has taught me. I would give you spiced wine to drink [i.e., her vagina's semen!], the nectar of my pomegranates. His left arm is under my head and his right arm embraces me."
Your two breasts are like two fawns, like twin fawns of a gazelle that browse among the lilies."
"My lover is to me a sachet of myrrh resting between my breasts
"Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth-- for your love is more delightful than wine. Pleasing is the fragrance of your perfumes; your name is like perfume poured out. No wonder the maidens love you! Take me away with you--let us hurry! Let the king bring me into his chambers. We rejoice and delight in you; we will praise your love (i.e., semen) more than wine. How right they are to adore you!"
"How beautiful your sandaled feet, O prince's daughter! Your graceful legs are like jewels, the work of a craftsman's hands. Your navel is a rounded goblet that never lacks blended wine. Your waist is a mound of wheat encircled by lilies. Your breasts are like two fawns, twins of a gazelle. Your neck is like an ivory tower. Your eyes are the pools of Heshbon by the gate of Bath Rabbi.
.......
I said 'I will climb the palm tree; I will take hold of its fruit.' May your breasts be like the clusters of the vine, the fragrance of your breath like apples, and your mouth like the best wine
Tell me if Ahmed Deedat has anything to do with it.
This is in your bible , like it or not :
rophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the Old Testament:
The Qur’an mentions in Surah Al-Araf chapter 7 verse 157:
"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures) in the law and the Gospel".
1.
MUHAMMAD (PBUH) PROPHESISED IN THE BOOK OF DEUTERONOMY:
Almighty God speaks to Moses in Book of Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 18:
Blasphemous lie. That is a prophecy of the Messiah covered in the Mohammedan wishful fantasy section.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=219.0
Quote from: Peter on January 12, 2011, 05:04:44 PM
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."
The Christians say that this prophecy refers to Jesus (pbuh) because Jesus (pbuh) was like Moses (pbuh). Moses (pbuh) was a Jew, as well as Jesus (pbuh) was a Jew. Moses (pbuh) was a Prophet and Jesus (pbuh) was also a Prophet.
Christians AND Jews understand it is a prophecy of the Messiah.
Christians understand it better because it was fulfilled in Jesus Christ.
John 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him,
We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
Quote from: Peter on January 12, 2011, 05:04:44 PM
If these two are the only criteria for this prophecy to be fulfilled, then all the Prophets of the Bible who came after
Moses (pbuh) such as Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Malachi, John the Baptist, etc. (pbut) will
fulfill this prophecy since all were Jews as well as prophets.
However, it is Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is like Moses (pbuh):
i)
Both had a father and a mother, while Jesus (pbuh) was born miraculously without any male intervention.
[Mathew 1:18 and Luke 1:35 and also Al-Qur'an 3:42-47]
ii)
Both were married and had children. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not marry nor had children.
iii)
Both died natural deaths. Jesus (pbuh) has been raised up alive. (4:157-158)
Muhammad (pbuh) is from among the brethren of Moses (pbuh). Arabs are brethren of Jews. Abraham (pbuh) had two sons: Ishmail and Isaac (pbut). The Arabs are the descendants of Ishmail (pbuh) .......
That's right! Exactly and specifically cut out of
God's covenant with Isaac.
Quote from: Peter on January 12, 2011, 05:04:44 PM........ and the Jews are the descendants of Isaac (pbuh).
Words in the mouth:
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was unlettered and whatever revelations he received from Almighty God he repeated them verbatim.
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."
[Deuteronomy 18:18]
iv)
Both besides being Prophets were also kings i.e. they could inflict capital punishment. Jesus (pbuh) said, "My kingdom is not of this world." (John 18:36).
v)
Both were accepted as Prophets by their people in their lifetime but Jesus (pbuh) was rejected by his
people. John chapter 1 verse 11 states, "He came unto his own, but his own received him not."
iv)
Both brought new laws and new regulations for their people. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not bring any new laws. (Mathew 5:17-18).
Absolutely preposterous bunch of foolish false presumption.
Act 7:22 And Moses was learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians, and was mighty in words and in deeds.
Yet it seems Mohammed was too mentally challenged to even learn how to read.
Quote from: Peter on January 12, 2011, 05:04:44 PM
2.
It is Mentioned in the book of Deuteronomy chapter 18:19
"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not harken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him."
That's how we can know you are spewing nothing but filthy blasphemous lies.
Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23
And it shall come to pass, [that] every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. 24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. 25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. 26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
So you have been warned regarding your fate for rejecting Jesus Christ to follow a 7th century fraud.
Quote from: Peter on January 12, 2011, 05:04:44 PM3.
Muhammad (pbuh) is prophesised in the book of Isaiah:
It is mentioned in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12:
"And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned."
When Archangel Gabrail commanded Muhammad (pbuh) by saying Iqra - "Read", he replied, "I am not learned".
4.
prophet Muhammad (pbuh) mentioned by name in the old testament:
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomon chapter 5 verse 16:
"Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem."
"His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters
of Jerusalem."
In the Hebrew language im is added for respect. Similarely im is added after the name of Prophet Muhammad
(pbuh) to make it Muhammadim. In English translation they have even translated the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as "altogether lovely", but in the Old Testament in Hebrew, the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is yet present.
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the New Testament:
Al-Qur'an Chapter 61 Verse 6:
"And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said, 'O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me and giving glad tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmed.' But when he came to them with clear signs, they said, 'This is evident sorcery!' "
All the prophecies mentioned in the Old Testament regarding Muhammad (pbuh) besides applying to the Jews also hold good for the Christians.
1.
John chapter 14 verse 16:
"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever."
2.
Gospel of John chapter 15 verse 26:
"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which
proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me."
3.
Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 7:
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".
"Ahmed" or "Muhammad" meaning "the one who praises" or "the praised one" is almost the translation of the
Greek word Periclytos. In the Gospel of John 14:16, 15:26, and 16:7. The word 'Comforter' is used in the English translation for the Greek word Paracletos which means advocate or a kind friend rather than a comforter.
Paracletos is the warped reading for Periclytos. Jesus (pbuh) actually prophesised Ahmed by name. Even the
Greek word Paraclete refers to the Prophet (pbuh) who is a mercy for all creatures.
Some Christians say that the Comforter mentioned in these prophecies refers to the Holy Sprit. They fail to realise
that the prophecy clearly says that only if Jesus (pbuh) departs will the Comforter come. The Bible states that the
Holy Spirit was already present on earth before and during the time of Jesus (pbuh), in the womb of Elizabeth, and again when Jesus (pbuh) was being baptised, etc. Hence this prophecy refers to none other than Prophet
Muhammad (pbuh).
4.
Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 12-14:
"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is
come, he will guide you unto all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me".
The Sprit of Truth, spoken about in this prophecy referes to none other than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
NOTE: All quotations of the Bible are taken from the King James Version.
Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: "This is from God," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. (The Noble Quran, 2:79)"
Perhaps there were too many words for someone who seems to share his prophet's level of literacy. Let's try it in one verse that maybe even Mohammed could have read.
Jhn 14:26 But
the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
A fuller explanation you have already been given and this subject has it's own thread.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=224.0
Beyond the fact that it's preposterous to suggest that Jesus was talking about
a 7th century antichrist to follow him in any but the relevant verses regarding false prophets.
All this nonsense in your head has EVERYTHING to do with Admed Deedat and his foolish lies.
Quote from: Peter on January 12, 2011, 05:04:44 PM
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 12, 2011, 03:57:04 PM
Quote from: resistingrexmundi on January 10, 2011, 08:14:45 AM
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 10, 2011, 02:57:06 AM
No i am not drudging anyone , Deedat May Allah bless him is Greator than you . And surely i watch his debate with Christians
Lol . The Comoforter is Mohamed PEACE BE UPON HIM and again Caomforter is also an english word , jesus , Peter is Greek , Pual is Greek . I have some doubt too , but still why he will do that , it does not make any difference if Mohamed was said in Armemine , the lanuage if Jesus peace be upon him . if you watch careful you will hear , that he was saying it when was speaking about the "Comforter " . So are you saying the Holy Spirit he name called The most praised when transleted to english . If so, then you solved what Muslims and Christian were aruging about .
Your opinion of Deedat is of no relevance to me. He was a liar who made up his own verse by adding words to Scripture to keep his Bible ignorant minions in the dark. And I have already told you it doesn't matter what was said in a MOVIE because that is what it was. A MOVIE.
The translator (Abdul Hamid Siddiqi) of Sahih Muslim notes that this is in reference to the 'Comforter' that Jesus spoke of.
In the Sirat Rasulallah, the earliest extant biography of Muhammad written by Ibn Ishaq, a specific claim is made asserting that Muhammad is the Comforter. On pages 103 and 104 of Guillaume's translation (The Life of Muhammad), the alleged prediction is described. Ishaq's work mis-quotes the New Testament and takes it out of context, and references several non-biblical works in his support as proof. Below is part of the quote from “The Life of Muhammadâ€, pages 103, 104: [4]
Among the things which have reached me about what Jesus the Son of Mary stated in the Gospel which he received from God for the followers of the Gospel, in applying a term to describe the apostle of God, is the following. It is extracted from what John the Apostle set down for them when he wrote the Gospel for them from the Testament of Jesus Son of Mary: ...â€But when the Comforter has come whom God will send to you from the Lord’s presence, and the spirit of truth which will have gone forth form the Lord’s presence he (shall bear) witness of me and ye also, because ye have been with me from the beginning. I have spoken unto you about this that ye should not be in doubt.†The Munahhemana (God bless and preserve him!) in Syriac is Muhammad: in Greek he is the paraclete.
Guillaume notes that,
“The passage quoted is John 15:23ff. It is interesting to note that the citation comes from the Palestinian Syriac Lectionary and not from the ordinary Bible of the Syriac-speaking Churches. …The most interesting word is that rendered “Comforter†which we find in the Palestinian Lectionary, but all other Syriac versions render “paracleteâ€, following the Greek. This word was well established in the Hebrew and Aramaic speaking world. The menahhemana in Syriac means the lifegiver and especially one who raises from the dead. Obviously such a meaning is out of place here and what is meant is one who consoles and comforts people for the loss of one dear to them. This is the meaning in the Talmud and Targum. It ought to be pointed out that by the omission of the words “that is written†before “in the law†quite another meaning is given to the prophecy. The natural rendering would be “the word that concerns the Namus must be fulfilledâ€.
Guillaume is stating that the Ibn Ishaq quote is corrupted, i.e. inaccurate or tampered with. Ibn Ishaq recorded versions of history that he heard from sources he assumed to have some degree of reliability. However, they could have been mistaken or Ibn Ishaq could have altered the material to fit his understanding. Additionally, Ibn Ishaq often records conflicting versions of historical events. He would record historical information that he himself disagreed with, or doubted, in order to record plausible historic options.
First, let the New Testament texts speak for themselves. They clearly state that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit. There is no ambiguity about this. Consequently Muhammad is not the Comforter based upon what the Bible explicitly states.
Second let us take the context of the texts into account. If you are going to understand any passage of Scripture you must understand its context. When Jesus spoke these words in John it was His last ministerial time with His disciples prior to His death, crucifixion, and resurrection. Jesus is being very intimate with them. Understand then, when he speaks to them He is including them â€" these very disciples, specifically. These are the men He knew best and loved; they were His friends. These were His final words to them, and He wanted them to know what was in store.
Therefore, knowing that these passages of John are being spoken intimately between Jesus and His disciples there are several key points we can discover concerning the Comforter and His relationship with Jesus’ disciples.
John 14:16 â€" And I will ask the Father and He will give you another Comforter to be with you forever - the Spirit of Truth.
The Comforter will be with these disciples forever. Jesus promised the Comforter would be with these disciples forever. Muhammad could not be the Comforter because he wasn't born until over 500 years later - following the deaths of these disciples. He was born around 570 and died around 632 AD.
John 14:17 â€" But you know him for he lives with you and will be in you.
The Comforter lives with the disciples already now and will later be 'in' them. The Holy Spirit came to the disciples and indwelt them. Muhammad could not be the Comforter because first he wasn't around at the time when Jesus was speaking to his disciples nor second could he ever be in any of the disciples. The Greek word is 'en', and it means 'right inside'. Jesus is saying that the Comforter will be 'right inside' of the disciples.
John 14:26 â€" The Comforter is specifically described as the Holy Spirit. The Comforter is not a man. Muhammad could not be the Comforter because he was never the Holy Spirit.
John 14:26 â€" The Comforter will be sent in Jesus' name. The Holy Spirit represented the Lord on earth. No Muslim believes that Muhammad was sent by God in Jesus name. Muhammad did not come in Jesus' name, as the apostle of Jesus, rather he came in his own name with his own questionable “revelationsâ€.
John 14:26 â€" But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."
The Comforter will teach these disciples and remind them of what Christ said to them. As the early Christians grew the Holy Spirit taught them. Muhammad is not the Comforter because he never knew the disciples and he didn't teach these disciples, and Muhammad never reminded the disciples of what Christ said.
John 15:26 â€" When the Comforter comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.
The Comforter would be sent to these disciples. These disciples received the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost. Muhammad was never sent to these disciples.
John 16:13 â€" But when he, the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all truth.
The Comforter will guide these disciples into all truth. These disciples (and others) grew in the knowledge of God through the revelations from the Holy Spirit. Muhammad never guided these disciples into any truth.
John 16:13 â€" He will not speak on his own, he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
The Comforter will speak to these disciples. These disciples grew to know the leading of the Holy Spirit, i.e. they knew His voice. Muhammad never spoke to these disciples.
John 16:14 â€" He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.
The Comforter will take from Jesus and make it known to the disciples. Muhammad never knew Jesus and never took from Jesus and made it known to anyone.
The context of these passages shows clearly that Muhammad could not be the Comforter. Jesus was not speaking of another person to come at a later date. Jesus’ precious final words to His disciples were meant for them. Jesus was not merely preaching a sermon to be analyzed and intellectually talked about through the centuries, rather, He was giving His the disciples with Him there His final commands, love, and encouragement.
Here's a question for you to consider: In Islamic theology, Muhammad rendered Jesus’ message fulfilled or ended because Muhammad brought God’s latest message to the people. Muhammad expected that true believers in God would accept Islam. Therefore, if Jesus was foretelling Muhammad, wouldn’t Jesus be prophesying that his ministry will be rendered void by the Paraclete? Read the context of the passages and decide.
Further, to fulfill exactly what Jesus foretold concerning the Comforter and His relationship with the disciples, the New Testament records the fulfillment of the coming of the Holy Spirit and the disciples receiving Him. The disciples received the Comforter - the Holy Spirit, on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:3, 4. The Comforter was now “in†the disciples and He remained “in†them from then on and taught them â€" just as Jesus had said He would.
THE EARLY CHURCH’S VIEW OF THE COMFORTER
The writings of the early Church Fathers also mention the Comforter, or Paraclete. Below are some of their statements on His identity. These early Church Fathers lived during the first 3 centuries of Christianity.
Note: Quotes are taken from “The Ante-Nicene Fathers†edited by Rev. Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, AGES Software, Albany, Oregon© 1996, 1997 [5]
THE EPISTLE OF IGNATIUS TO THE PHILIPPIANS
Page 224
“What is His name, or what His Son’s name, that we may know?†And there is also one Paraclete. For “there is also,†saith [the Scripture], “one Spirit,†since “we have been called in one hope of our calling.†And again, “We have drunk of one Spirit,†with what follows. And it is manifest that all these gifts [possessed by believers] “worketh one and the self-same Spirit.†There are not then either three Fathers, or three Sons, or three Paracletes, but one Father, and one Son, and one Paraclete.
FRAGMENTS OF CLEMENS ALEXANDRINUS
Page 1155
The old things which were done by the prophets and escape the observation of most, are now revealed to you by the evangelists. “For to you,†he says, “they are manifested by the Holy Ghost, who was sent;†that is the Paraclete, of whom the Lord said, “If I go not away, He will not come.â€
TERTULLIAN AGAINST PRAXEAS;
Page 1083
He will come to judge the quick and the dead; who sent also from heaven from the Father, according to His own promise, the Holy Ghost, the Paraclete, the sanctifier of the faith of those who believe in the Father, and in the Son, and in the Holy Ghost.
Page 1094
Happily the Lord Himself employs this expression of the person of the Paraclete, so as to signify not a division or severance, but a disposition (of mutual relations in the Godhead); for He says, “I will pray the Father, and He shall send you another Comforter ... even the Spirit of truth,â€
ORIGEN DE PRINCIPIIS, BOOK 2, CHAPTER 7
ON THE HOLY SPIRIT
It is time, then, that we say a few words to the best of our ability regarding the Holy Spirit, whom our Lord and Savior in the Gospel according to John has named the Paraclete.
We must therefore know that the Paraclete is the Holy Spirit, who teaches truths ...
But the Paraclete, who is called the Holy Spirit, ...
In the case of the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete ...
Above are the statements of 4 of the Ante-Nicene Church Fathers. They state that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit. From the time of Jesus through the history of the early church the early Christians believed that the Comforter was the Holy Spirit. There was no confusion or uncertainty on their part regarding the identity of the Comforter.
QUESTIONS AND ASSERTIONS ABOUT THE COMFORTER
There exist some very good questions concerning the Comforter and these need to be answered. Also, there are some Muslim assertions that bear a closer examination. I will try to answer the questions, and assess the assertions.
1) QUESTION ON WHO JESUS MEANT BY “YOU†WHEN ADDRESSING THE DISCIPLES REGARDING THE COMFORTER
QUESTION:
Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad used to say 'you' to their followers but really it was a general expression for those who follow their teachings. For example, Jesus told his followers that they would see him coming back to the earth and all of them have since died. Couldn't Jesus have meant the disciples in general, specifically the future ones, when speaking about the Comforter?
ANSWER:
Examine John chapters 13 through 17. This was the time when Christ was alone with His disciples. His actions and dialog with them were very personal. He washed their feet, predicted His betrayal, comforted them, foretold the coming of the "Comforter", taught them about 'abiding' in Him, foretold tribulation for them, and said a most intimate prayer (chapter 17) for them and Himself. If you review all of this, you will see that Jesus was not speaking in a general term of 'you', to the possible exclusion of these men, but at the very least He was speaking to those with Him â€" His disciples. And later on they experienced what Jesus foretold â€" they “received†the Comforter.
I encourage all Muslims to read John chapters 13 through 17. Be sincere in your reading, ask God to guide you. You will see that Jesus was speaking very dearly to His disciples.
You are the only lair here you trash does not have anything to do with Ahamed Deedat . He made the bible for him self ? Always the saem shit , that you keep repeating many times i hope you read this and say it was from Ahamed deedat two , this is what the bible contian :
Women's vaginas taste like "wine"
If only you were to me like a brother, who was nursed at my mother's breasts! Then, if I found you outside, I would kiss you, and no one would despise me. I would lead you and bring you to my mother's house-- she who has taught me. I would give you spiced wine to drink [i.e., her vagina's semen!], the nectar of my pomegranates. His left arm is under my head and his right arm embraces me."
Your two breasts are like two fawns, like twin fawns of a gazelle that browse among the lilies."
"My lover is to me a sachet of myrrh resting between my breasts
"Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth-- for your love is more delightful than wine. Pleasing is the fragrance of your perfumes; your name is like perfume poured out. No wonder the maidens love you! Take me away with you--let us hurry! Let the king bring me into his chambers. We rejoice and delight in you; we will praise your love (i.e., semen) more than wine. How right they are to adore you!"
"How beautiful your sandaled feet, O prince's daughter! Your graceful legs are like jewels, the work of a craftsman's hands. Your navel is a rounded goblet that never lacks blended wine. Your waist is a mound of wheat encircled by lilies. Your breasts are like two fawns, twins of a gazelle. Your neck is like an ivory tower. Your eyes are the pools of Heshbon by the gate of Bath Rabbi.
.......
I said 'I will climb the palm tree; I will take hold of its fruit.' May your breasts be like the clusters of the vine, the fragrance of your breath like apples, and your mouth like the best wine
Tell me if Ahmed Deedat has anything to do with it.
This is in your bible , like it or not :
rophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the Old Testament:
The Qur’an mentions in Surah Al-Araf chapter 7 verse 157:
"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures) in the law and the Gospel".
1.
MUHAMMAD (PBUH) PROPHESISED IN THE BOOK OF DEUTERONOMY:
Almighty God speaks to Moses in Book of Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 18:
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."
The Christians say that this prophecy refers to Jesus (pbuh) because Jesus (pbuh) was like Moses (pbuh). Moses (pbuh) was a Jew, as well as Jesus (pbuh) was a Jew. Moses (pbuh) was a Prophet and Jesus (pbuh) was also a Prophet.
If these two are the only criteria for this prophecy to be fulfilled, then all the Prophets of the Bible who came after
Moses (pbuh) such as Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Malachi, John the Baptist, etc. (pbut) will
fulfill this prophecy since all were Jews as well as prophets.
However, it is Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is like Moses (pbuh):
i)
Both had a father and a mother, while Jesus (pbuh) was born miraculously without any male intervention.
[Mathew 1:18 and Luke 1:35 and also Al-Qur'an 3:42-47]
ii)
Both were married and had children. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not marry nor had children.
iii)
Both died natural deaths. Jesus (pbuh) has been raised up alive. (4:157-158)
Muhammad (pbuh) is from among the brethren of Moses (pbuh). Arabs are brethren of Jews. Abraham (pbuh) had two sons: Ishmail and Isaac (pbut). The Arabs are the descendants of Ishmail (pbuh) and the Jews are the descendants of Isaac (pbuh).
Words in the mouth:
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was unlettered and whatever revelations he received from Almighty God he repeated them verbatim.
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."
[Deuteronomy 18:18]
iv)
Both besides being Prophets were also kings i.e. they could inflict capital punishment. Jesus (pbuh) said, "My kingdom is not of this world." (John 18:36).
v)
Both were accepted as Prophets by their people in their lifetime but Jesus (pbuh) was rejected by his
people. John chapter 1 verse 11 states, "He came unto his own, but his own received him not."
iv)
Both brought new laws and new regulations for their people. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not bring any new laws. (Mathew 5:17-18).
2.
It is Mentioned in the book of Deuteronomy chapter 18:19
"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not harken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him."
3.
Muhammad (pbuh) is prophesised in the book of Isaiah:
It is mentioned in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12:
"And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned."
When Archangel Gabrail commanded Muhammad (pbuh) by saying Iqra - "Read", he replied, "I am not learned".
4.
prophet Muhammad (pbuh) mentioned by name in the old testament:
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomon chapter 5 verse 16:
"Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem."
"His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters
of Jerusalem."
In the Hebrew language im is added for respect. Similarely im is added after the name of Prophet Muhammad
(pbuh) to make it Muhammadim. In English translation they have even translated the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as "altogether lovely", but in the Old Testament in Hebrew, the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is yet present.
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the New Testament:
Al-Qur'an Chapter 61 Verse 6:
"And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said, 'O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me and giving glad tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmed.' But when he came to them with clear signs, they said, 'This is evident sorcery!' "
All the prophecies mentioned in the Old Testament regarding Muhammad (pbuh) besides applying to the Jews also hold good for the Christians.
1.
John chapter 14 verse 16:
"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever."
2.
Gospel of John chapter 15 verse 26:
"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which
proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me."
3.
Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 7:
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".
"Ahmed" or "Muhammad" meaning "the one who praises" or "the praised one" is almost the translation of the
Greek word Periclytos. In the Gospel of John 14:16, 15:26, and 16:7. The word 'Comforter' is used in the English translation for the Greek word Paracletos which means advocate or a kind friend rather than a comforter.
Paracletos is the warped reading for Periclytos. Jesus (pbuh) actually prophesised Ahmed by name. Even the
Greek word Paraclete refers to the Prophet (pbuh) who is a mercy for all creatures.
Some Christians say that the Comforter mentioned in these prophecies refers to the Holy Sprit. They fail to realise
that the prophecy clearly says that only if Jesus (pbuh) departs will the Comforter come. The Bible states that the
Holy Spirit was already present on earth before and during the time of Jesus (pbuh), in the womb of Elizabeth, and again when Jesus (pbuh) was being baptised, etc. Hence this prophecy refers to none other than Prophet
Muhammad (pbuh).
4.
Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 12-14:
"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is
come, he will guide you unto all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me".
The Sprit of Truth, spoken about in this prophecy referes to none other than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
NOTE: All quotations of the Bible are taken from the King James Version.
Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: "This is from God," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. (The Noble Quran, 2:79)"
Perhaps there were too many words for someone who seems to share his prophet's level of literacy. Let's try it in one verse that maybe even Mohammed could have read.
Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
A fuller explanation you have already been given and this subject has it's own thread.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=224.0
Beyond the fact that it's preposterous to suggest that Jesus was talking about a 7th century antichrist to follow him in any but the relevant verses regarding false prophets.
All this nonsense in your head has EVERYTHING to do with Admed Deedat and his foolish lies.
The hoyl Ghost was with jesus and the apstols and even in the old testament , how can you lie to the word of satan , sorry i mean God , which seems to be so evil . The only anitchrist is Saul the F***ing lair who lied about everything. Jesus was speaking about Prophet who will come after him , that will gauid us in to all truth , not fabraication as saul , Saul was contrudict what jesus PEACE BE UPON HIM said.
Quote from: Peter on January 12, 2011, 05:31:27 PM
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 12, 2011, 03:57:04 PM
Quote from: resistingrexmundi on January 10, 2011, 08:14:45 AM
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 10, 2011, 02:57:06 AM
No i am not drudging anyone , Deedat May Allah bless him is Greator than you . And surely i watch his debate with Christians
Lol . The Comoforter is Mohamed PEACE BE UPON HIM and again Caomforter is also an english word , jesus , Peter is Greek , Pual is Greek . I have some doubt too , but still why he will do that , it does not make any difference if Mohamed was said in Armemine , the lanuage if Jesus peace be upon him . if you watch careful you will hear , that he was saying it when was speaking about the "Comforter " . So are you saying the Holy Spirit he name called The most praised when transleted to english . If so, then you solved what Muslims and Christian were aruging about .
Your opinion of Deedat is of no relevance to me. He was a liar who made up his own verse by adding words to Scripture to keep his Bible ignorant minions in the dark. And I have already told you it doesn't matter what was said in a MOVIE because that is what it was. A MOVIE.
The translator (Abdul Hamid Siddiqi) of Sahih Muslim notes that this is in reference to the 'Comforter' that Jesus spoke of.
In the Sirat Rasulallah, the earliest extant biography of Muhammad written by Ibn Ishaq, a specific claim is made asserting that Muhammad is the Comforter. On pages 103 and 104 of Guillaume's translation (The Life of Muhammad), the alleged prediction is described. Ishaq's work mis-quotes the New Testament and takes it out of context, and references several non-biblical works in his support as proof. Below is part of the quote from “The Life of Muhammadâ€, pages 103, 104: [4]
Among the things which have reached me about what Jesus the Son of Mary stated in the Gospel which he received from God for the followers of the Gospel, in applying a term to describe the apostle of God, is the following. It is extracted from what John the Apostle set down for them when he wrote the Gospel for them from the Testament of Jesus Son of Mary: ...â€But when the Comforter has come whom God will send to you from the Lord’s presence, and the spirit of truth which will have gone forth form the Lord’s presence he (shall bear) witness of me and ye also, because ye have been with me from the beginning. I have spoken unto you about this that ye should not be in doubt.†The Munahhemana (God bless and preserve him!) in Syriac is Muhammad: in Greek he is the paraclete.
Guillaume notes that,
“The passage quoted is John 15:23ff. It is interesting to note that the citation comes from the Palestinian Syriac Lectionary and not from the ordinary Bible of the Syriac-speaking Churches. …The most interesting word is that rendered “Comforter†which we find in the Palestinian Lectionary, but all other Syriac versions render “paracleteâ€, following the Greek. This word was well established in the Hebrew and Aramaic speaking world. The menahhemana in Syriac means the lifegiver and especially one who raises from the dead. Obviously such a meaning is out of place here and what is meant is one who consoles and comforts people for the loss of one dear to them. This is the meaning in the Talmud and Targum. It ought to be pointed out that by the omission of the words “that is written†before “in the law†quite another meaning is given to the prophecy. The natural rendering would be “the word that concerns the Namus must be fulfilledâ€.
Guillaume is stating that the Ibn Ishaq quote is corrupted, i.e. inaccurate or tampered with. Ibn Ishaq recorded versions of history that he heard from sources he assumed to have some degree of reliability. However, they could have been mistaken or Ibn Ishaq could have altered the material to fit his understanding. Additionally, Ibn Ishaq often records conflicting versions of historical events. He would record historical information that he himself disagreed with, or doubted, in order to record plausible historic options.
First, let the New Testament texts speak for themselves. They clearly state that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit. There is no ambiguity about this. Consequently Muhammad is not the Comforter based upon what the Bible explicitly states.
Second let us take the context of the texts into account. If you are going to understand any passage of Scripture you must understand its context. When Jesus spoke these words in John it was His last ministerial time with His disciples prior to His death, crucifixion, and resurrection. Jesus is being very intimate with them. Understand then, when he speaks to them He is including them â€" these very disciples, specifically. These are the men He knew best and loved; they were His friends. These were His final words to them, and He wanted them to know what was in store.
Therefore, knowing that these passages of John are being spoken intimately between Jesus and His disciples there are several key points we can discover concerning the Comforter and His relationship with Jesus’ disciples.
John 14:16 â€" And I will ask the Father and He will give you another Comforter to be with you forever - the Spirit of Truth.
The Comforter will be with these disciples forever. Jesus promised the Comforter would be with these disciples forever. Muhammad could not be the Comforter because he wasn't born until over 500 years later - following the deaths of these disciples. He was born around 570 and died around 632 AD.
John 14:17 â€" But you know him for he lives with you and will be in you.
The Comforter lives with the disciples already now and will later be 'in' them. The Holy Spirit came to the disciples and indwelt them. Muhammad could not be the Comforter because first he wasn't around at the time when Jesus was speaking to his disciples nor second could he ever be in any of the disciples. The Greek word is 'en', and it means 'right inside'. Jesus is saying that the Comforter will be 'right inside' of the disciples.
John 14:26 â€" The Comforter is specifically described as the Holy Spirit. The Comforter is not a man. Muhammad could not be the Comforter because he was never the Holy Spirit.
John 14:26 â€" The Comforter will be sent in Jesus' name. The Holy Spirit represented the Lord on earth. No Muslim believes that Muhammad was sent by God in Jesus name. Muhammad did not come in Jesus' name, as the apostle of Jesus, rather he came in his own name with his own questionable “revelationsâ€.
John 14:26 â€" But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."
The Comforter will teach these disciples and remind them of what Christ said to them. As the early Christians grew the Holy Spirit taught them. Muhammad is not the Comforter because he never knew the disciples and he didn't teach these disciples, and Muhammad never reminded the disciples of what Christ said.
John 15:26 â€" When the Comforter comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.
The Comforter would be sent to these disciples. These disciples received the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost. Muhammad was never sent to these disciples.
John 16:13 â€" But when he, the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all truth.
The Comforter will guide these disciples into all truth. These disciples (and others) grew in the knowledge of God through the revelations from the Holy Spirit. Muhammad never guided these disciples into any truth.
John 16:13 â€" He will not speak on his own, he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
The Comforter will speak to these disciples. These disciples grew to know the leading of the Holy Spirit, i.e. they knew His voice. Muhammad never spoke to these disciples.
John 16:14 â€" He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.
The Comforter will take from Jesus and make it known to the disciples. Muhammad never knew Jesus and never took from Jesus and made it known to anyone.
The context of these passages shows clearly that Muhammad could not be the Comforter. Jesus was not speaking of another person to come at a later date. Jesus’ precious final words to His disciples were meant for them. Jesus was not merely preaching a sermon to be analyzed and intellectually talked about through the centuries, rather, He was giving His the disciples with Him there His final commands, love, and encouragement.
Here's a question for you to consider: In Islamic theology, Muhammad rendered Jesus’ message fulfilled or ended because Muhammad brought God’s latest message to the people. Muhammad expected that true believers in God would accept Islam. Therefore, if Jesus was foretelling Muhammad, wouldn’t Jesus be prophesying that his ministry will be rendered void by the Paraclete? Read the context of the passages and decide.
Further, to fulfill exactly what Jesus foretold concerning the Comforter and His relationship with the disciples, the New Testament records the fulfillment of the coming of the Holy Spirit and the disciples receiving Him. The disciples received the Comforter - the Holy Spirit, on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:3, 4. The Comforter was now “in†the disciples and He remained “in†them from then on and taught them â€" just as Jesus had said He would.
THE EARLY CHURCH’S VIEW OF THE COMFORTER
The writings of the early Church Fathers also mention the Comforter, or Paraclete. Below are some of their statements on His identity. These early Church Fathers lived during the first 3 centuries of Christianity.
Note: Quotes are taken from “The Ante-Nicene Fathers†edited by Rev. Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, AGES Software, Albany, Oregon© 1996, 1997 [5]
THE EPISTLE OF IGNATIUS TO THE PHILIPPIANS
Page 224
“What is His name, or what His Son’s name, that we may know?†And there is also one Paraclete. For “there is also,†saith [the Scripture], “one Spirit,†since “we have been called in one hope of our calling.†And again, “We have drunk of one Spirit,†with what follows. And it is manifest that all these gifts [possessed by believers] “worketh one and the self-same Spirit.†There are not then either three Fathers, or three Sons, or three Paracletes, but one Father, and one Son, and one Paraclete.
FRAGMENTS OF CLEMENS ALEXANDRINUS
Page 1155
The old things which were done by the prophets and escape the observation of most, are now revealed to you by the evangelists. “For to you,†he says, “they are manifested by the Holy Ghost, who was sent;†that is the Paraclete, of whom the Lord said, “If I go not away, He will not come.â€
TERTULLIAN AGAINST PRAXEAS;
Page 1083
He will come to judge the quick and the dead; who sent also from heaven from the Father, according to His own promise, the Holy Ghost, the Paraclete, the sanctifier of the faith of those who believe in the Father, and in the Son, and in the Holy Ghost.
Page 1094
Happily the Lord Himself employs this expression of the person of the Paraclete, so as to signify not a division or severance, but a disposition (of mutual relations in the Godhead); for He says, “I will pray the Father, and He shall send you another Comforter ... even the Spirit of truth,â€
ORIGEN DE PRINCIPIIS, BOOK 2, CHAPTER 7
ON THE HOLY SPIRIT
It is time, then, that we say a few words to the best of our ability regarding the Holy Spirit, whom our Lord and Savior in the Gospel according to John has named the Paraclete.
We must therefore know that the Paraclete is the Holy Spirit, who teaches truths ...
But the Paraclete, who is called the Holy Spirit, ...
In the case of the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete ...
Above are the statements of 4 of the Ante-Nicene Church Fathers. They state that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit. From the time of Jesus through the history of the early church the early Christians believed that the Comforter was the Holy Spirit. There was no confusion or uncertainty on their part regarding the identity of the Comforter.
QUESTIONS AND ASSERTIONS ABOUT THE COMFORTER
There exist some very good questions concerning the Comforter and these need to be answered. Also, there are some Muslim assertions that bear a closer examination. I will try to answer the questions, and assess the assertions.
1) QUESTION ON WHO JESUS MEANT BY “YOU†WHEN ADDRESSING THE DISCIPLES REGARDING THE COMFORTER
QUESTION:
Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad used to say 'you' to their followers but really it was a general expression for those who follow their teachings. For example, Jesus told his followers that they would see him coming back to the earth and all of them have since died. Couldn't Jesus have meant the disciples in general, specifically the future ones, when speaking about the Comforter?
ANSWER:
Examine John chapters 13 through 17. This was the time when Christ was alone with His disciples. His actions and dialog with them were very personal. He washed their feet, predicted His betrayal, comforted them, foretold the coming of the "Comforter", taught them about 'abiding' in Him, foretold tribulation for them, and said a most intimate prayer (chapter 17) for them and Himself. If you review all of this, you will see that Jesus was not speaking in a general term of 'you', to the possible exclusion of these men, but at the very least He was speaking to those with Him â€" His disciples. And later on they experienced what Jesus foretold â€" they “received†the Comforter.
I encourage all Muslims to read John chapters 13 through 17. Be sincere in your reading, ask God to guide you. You will see that Jesus was speaking very dearly to His disciples.
You are the only lair here you trash does not have anything to do with Ahamed Deedat . He made the bible for him self ? Always the saem shit , that you keep repeating many times i hope you read this and say it was from Ahamed deedat two , this is what the bible contian :
Women's vaginas taste like "wine"
If only you were to me like a brother, who was nursed at my mother's breasts! Then, if I found you outside, I would kiss you, and no one would despise me. I would lead you and bring you to my mother's house-- she who has taught me. I would give you spiced wine to drink [i.e., her vagina's semen!], the nectar of my pomegranates. His left arm is under my head and his right arm embraces me."
Your two breasts are like two fawns, like twin fawns of a gazelle that browse among the lilies."
"My lover is to me a sachet of myrrh resting between my breasts
"Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth-- for your love is more delightful than wine. Pleasing is the fragrance of your perfumes; your name is like perfume poured out. No wonder the maidens love you! Take me away with you--let us hurry! Let the king bring me into his chambers. We rejoice and delight in you; we will praise your love (i.e., semen) more than wine. How right they are to adore you!"
"How beautiful your sandaled feet, O prince's daughter! Your graceful legs are like jewels, the work of a craftsman's hands. Your navel is a rounded goblet that never lacks blended wine. Your waist is a mound of wheat encircled by lilies. Your breasts are like two fawns, twins of a gazelle. Your neck is like an ivory tower. Your eyes are the pools of Heshbon by the gate of Bath Rabbi.
.......
I said 'I will climb the palm tree; I will take hold of its fruit.' May your breasts be like the clusters of the vine, the fragrance of your breath like apples, and your mouth like the best wine
Tell me if Ahmed Deedat has anything to do with it.
This is in your bible , like it or not :
rophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the Old Testament:
The Qur’an mentions in Surah Al-Araf chapter 7 verse 157:
"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures) in the law and the Gospel".
1.
MUHAMMAD (PBUH) PROPHESISED IN THE BOOK OF DEUTERONOMY:
Almighty God speaks to Moses in Book of Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 18:
Blasphemous lie. That is a prophecy of the Messiah covered in the Mohammedan wishful fantasy section.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=219.0
Quote from: Peter on January 12, 2011, 05:04:44 PM
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."
The Christians say that this prophecy refers to Jesus (pbuh) because Jesus (pbuh) was like Moses (pbuh). Moses (pbuh) was a Jew, as well as Jesus (pbuh) was a Jew. Moses (pbuh) was a Prophet and Jesus (pbuh) was also a Prophet.
Christians AND Jews understand it is a prophecy of the Messiah.
Christians understand it better because it was fulfilled in Jesus Christ.
John 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
Quote from: Peter on January 12, 2011, 05:04:44 PM
If these two are the only criteria for this prophecy to be fulfilled, then all the Prophets of the Bible who came after
Moses (pbuh) such as Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Malachi, John the Baptist, etc. (pbut) will
fulfill this prophecy since all were Jews as well as prophets.
However, it is Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is like Moses (pbuh):
i)
Both had a father and a mother, while Jesus (pbuh) was born miraculously without any male intervention.
[Mathew 1:18 and Luke 1:35 and also Al-Qur'an 3:42-47]
ii)
Both were married and had children. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not marry nor had children.
iii)
Both died natural deaths. Jesus (pbuh) has been raised up alive. (4:157-158)
Muhammad (pbuh) is from among the brethren of Moses (pbuh). Arabs are brethren of Jews. Abraham (pbuh) had two sons: Ishmail and Isaac (pbut). The Arabs are the descendants of Ishmail (pbuh) .......
That's right! Exactly and specifically cut out of God's covenant with Isaac.
Quote from: Peter on January 12, 2011, 05:04:44 PM........ and the Jews are the descendants of Isaac (pbuh).
Words in the mouth:
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was unlettered and whatever revelations he received from Almighty God he repeated them verbatim.
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."
[Deuteronomy 18:18]
iv)
Both besides being Prophets were also kings i.e. they could inflict capital punishment. Jesus (pbuh) said, "My kingdom is not of this world." (John 18:36).
v)
Both were accepted as Prophets by their people in their lifetime but Jesus (pbuh) was rejected by his
people. John chapter 1 verse 11 states, "He came unto his own, but his own received him not."
iv)
Both brought new laws and new regulations for their people. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not bring any new laws. (Mathew 5:17-18).
Absolutely preposterous bunch of foolish false presumption.
Act 7:22 And Moses was learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians, and was mighty in words and in deeds.
Yet it seems Mohammed was too mentally challenged to even learn how to read.
Quote from: Peter on January 12, 2011, 05:04:44 PM
2.
It is Mentioned in the book of Deuteronomy chapter 18:19
"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not harken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him."
That's how we can know you are spewing nothing but filthy blasphemous lies.
Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23 And it shall come to pass, [that] every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. 24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. 25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. 26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
So you have been warned regarding your fate for rejecting Jesus Christ to follow a 7th century fraud.
Mohamed PEACE BE UPON HIM was not able to read that is true and that is mrical , who did someone who did not know how read and write was able to say such wisdom, which proves it is from God.
I am follow and beileve in jesus PEACE BE UPON HIM as prophet , but as Mythical son of GOd , no sorry i can not say so . Your mythical Trintiy and pagan corss is nothing but shit that came out of pagan cult and enemy of christ , it has nothing to do with what jesus PEACE BE UPON HIM .
"Christians AND Jews understand it is a prophecy of the Messiah.
Christians understand it better because it was fulfilled in Jesus Christ." funny words boy!!
If jews understood it as you claim why they do not believe in the mythical beggton son of God , who born without sexual intercourse but yet Gospols writer , two of them created to different series of forfathers , and the only two names they agree on is Jamas and David . Funny and it was supposd to be from God .
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 13, 2011, 02:56:22 AM
Quote from: Peter on January 12, 2011, 05:04:44 PM
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 12, 2011, 03:57:04 PM
Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: "This is from God," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. (The Noble Quran, 2:79)"
Perhaps there were too many words for someone who seems to share his prophet's level of literacy. Let's try it in one verse that maybe even Mohammed could have read.
Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
A fuller explanation you have already been given and this subject has it's own thread.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=224.0
Beyond the fact that it's preposterous to suggest that Jesus was talking about a 7th century antichrist to follow him in any but the relevant verses regarding false prophets.
All this nonsense in your head has EVERYTHING to do with Admed Deedat and his foolish lies.
The hoyl Ghost was with jesus and the apstols and even in the old testament , how can you lie to the word of satan , sorry i mean God , which seems to be so evil .
Jesus explained that. It is the Spirit of God when it fills people
through Jesus' name.
Jhn 14:26 But
the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost,
whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
I want to thank you for offering such a good example of how Satan's lying spirit can infect a mind. How what even an 8 year old can read and understand, you declare doesn't say what it says, and to top it off the spirit of antichrist inside you dressed up your preposterous and impossible understanding of that plain language by going on to call the ONLY record we have of YHWH to be of Satan.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 13, 2011, 02:56:22 AMThe only anitchrist is Saul the F***ing lair ........
And look at the tongue of Paul's false accuser. Your own testimony should help those deceived by Satan through his prophet Mohammed better judge who the liar is.
2 Timothy 3:1
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous,
boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3
Without natural affection, trucebreakers,
false accusers, incontinent, fierce,
despisers of those that are good,
And of course because you follow the father of lies - Satan - through his prophet Mohammed you can't control your tongue any better than an adolescent. This is perfectly consistent with the mind of the 7th century SW Arabian desert dwelling illiterates you had to adopt, and void of history, archaeology, geography and knowledge in general, to be able to continue to allow yourself to prostrate your body 5 times a day toward the Quraish's black stone idol. Knowledge has always been the Achilles heel of Mohammed's preposterous stand-alone religion.
But then scripture already informed us as to who the liar is.
1John 5:10 He that BELIEVETH ON THE SON OF GOD hath the witness in himself: HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT GOD HATH MADE HIM A LIAR; because HE BELIEVED NOT THE RECORD that God gave OF HIS SON.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 13, 2011, 02:56:22 AM......... who lied about everything. Jesus was speaking about Prophet who will come after him , ........
NOWHERE does it reference a prophet. It says what it says to anyone who isn't guided by the father of lies. Try it again only this time try moving up to applying the reading comprehension level of an 8 year old
....the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost....Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 13, 2011, 02:56:22 AM.......... that will gauid us in to all truth , .......
That's right. Yet through the father of lies
Mohammed was as opposite of Jesus Christ, as his blasphemous rantings are the opposite of the Gospel. The perfect opposite of the Gospel, and a 600 year come-lately.
Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book,
If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:And you are bound to be suffering right alongside him.
Rev 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where THE BEAST
and THE FALSE PROPHET [are], and
shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 13, 2011, 02:56:22 AM........ not fabraication as saul , Saul was contrudict what jesus PEACE BE UPON HIM said.
Don't be silly. Mohammedans must reject ALL of the prophets and witnesses as revealed in YHWH's record to follow Mohammed.
Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, YIELDED UP THE GHOST.
Mark 15:39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and GAVE UP THE GHOST, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he GAVE UP THE GHOST.
John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and GAVE UP THE GHOST.
Quote from: Peter on January 12, 2011, 05:31:27 PM
The translator (Abdul Hamid Siddiqi) of Sahih Muslim notes that this is in reference to the 'Comforter' that Jesus spoke of.
Poor fellow must not have been much more literate than his false prophet Mohammed as is made obvious in the above. Another desperately wishful antichrist pretending that Mohammed's blasphemy had something to do with YHWH/Yeshua and the Gospel of Jesus Christ. But Mohammed's religion will never be other than that of Mohammed and his self-serving alter-ego "Allah".
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 13, 2011, 03:04:35 AM
Quote from: Peter on January 12, 2011, 05:04:44 PM
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 13, 2011, 03:04:35 AM
2.
It is Mentioned in the book of Deuteronomy chapter 18:19
"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not harken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him."
That's how we can know you are spewing nothing but filthy blasphemous lies.
Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23 And it shall come to pass, [that] every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. 24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. 25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. 26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
So you have been warned regarding your fate for rejecting Jesus Christ to follow a 7th century fraud.
Mohamed PEACE BE UPON HIM was not able to read that is true and that is mrical , who did someone who did not know how read and write was able to say such wisdom, which proves it is from God.
I am follow and beileve in jesus PEACE BE UPON HIM as prophet , but as Mythical son of GOd , no sorry i can not say so . Your mythical Trintiy and pagan corss is nothing but shit that came out of pagan cult and enemy of christ , it has nothing to do with what jesus PEACE BE UPON HIM .
"Christians AND Jews understand it is a prophecy of the Messiah.
Christians understand it better because it was fulfilled in Jesus Christ." funny words boy!!
You may think the fate detailed for you above is funny, but you won't after God's judgment. Perhaps I didn't enlarge enough text from this
New Testament passage regarding the fulfilled prophecy of Moses when I posted it. I will do it in the quoted.
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 13, 2011, 03:04:35 AM
If jews understood it as you .......
The Jews didn't recognize Jesus as their promised Son because they thought he was going to be manifest as a mighty king. They didn't recognize their Messiah and that is why you seek comfort with them.
Old Testament prophecy:
Psalms 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me,
Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.New Testament fulfillment:
Act 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again;
as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=612.0
You don't recognize the promised Son because you are filled with the spirit of antichrist through Satan and his prophet Mohammed.
1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? HE IS ANTICHRIST, THAT DENIETH the Father and THE SON. 23 WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE FATHER:
Quote from: SalahDinThe2nD on January 13, 2011, 03:04:35 AM....... claim why they do not believe in the mythical beggton son of God , who born without sexual intercourse but yet Gospols writer , two of them created to different series of forfathers , and the only two names they agree on is Jamas and David . Funny and it was supposd to be from God .