Islam, Muslim / Christian Forum - Welcome All

LOL your not exposing anything other than your ignorance! It is amazing to me how you call me a racist yet you do not see the issue of humanity AND in particular the Christian Suffering of the Palestinians that are Christians! I have ask several Times to explain WHO John was talking about when he said "even now are there many antichrists" you ignore this because you don't want to admit it. There were no such thing as Muslim then. AND they were there in Judea. So he must have been talking about Jews, to deny this shows your blatant ignorance. Now I say these scribes are not of Judah you say they are! That is a dilemma. Jesus told us in many places what I am saying is true. If you can't see it that is your problem.
Now to expose you false prophet Ellis Skolfeild!
Have you ever heard of Iraneus? You two talked about the early church so much I thought I would dig some of this up. Here is what he said about the Anti-Christ. aka boogieman!
Chapter XXV.—The fraud, pride, and tyrannical kingdom of Antichrist, as described by Daniel and Paul.

1. And not only by the particulars already mentioned, but also by means of the events which shall occur in the time of Antichrist is it shown that he, being an apostate and a robber, is anxious to be adored as God; and that, although a mere slave, he wishes himself to be proclaimed as a king. For he (Antichrist) being endued with all the power of the devil, shall come, not as a righteous king, nor as a legitimate king, [i.e., one] in subjection to God, but an impious, unjust, and lawless one; as an apostate, iniquitous and murderous; as a robber, concentrating in himself [all] satanic apostasy, and setting aside idols to persuade [men] that he himself is God, raising up himself as the only idol, having in himself the multifarious errors of the other idols. This he does, in order that they who do [now] worship the devil by means of many abominations, may serve himself by this one idol, of whom the apostle thus speaks in the second Epistle to the Thessalonians: “Unless there shall come a failing away first, and the man of sin shall be revealed, the son of perdition, who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself as if he were God.” The apostle therefore clearly points out his apostasy, and that he is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped—that is, above every idol —for these are indeed so called by men, but are not [really] gods; and that he will endeavour in a tyrannical manner to set himself forth as God.

2. Moreover, he (the apostle) has also pointed out this which I have shown in many ways, that the temple in Jerusalem was made by the direction of the true God. For the apostle himself, speaking in his own person, distinctly called it the temple of God. Now I have shown in the third book, that no one is termed God by the apostles when speaking for themselves, except Him who truly is God, the Father of our Lord, by whose directions the temple which is at Jerusalem was constructed for those purposes which I have already mentioned; in which [temple] the enemy shall sit, endeavouring to show himself as Christ, as the Lord also declares: “But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, which has been spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that readeth understand), then let those who are in Judea flee into the mountains; and he who is upon the house-top, let him not come down to take anything out of his house: for there shall then be great hardship, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall be.”4664

3. Daniel too, looking forward to the end of the last kingdom, i.e., the ten last kings, amongst whom the kingdom of those men shall be partitioned, and upon whom the son of perdition shall come, declares that ten horns shall spring from the beast, and that another little horn shall arise in the midst of them, and that three of the former shall be rooted up before his face. He says: “And, behold, eyes were in this horn as the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things, and his look was more stout than his fellows. I was looking, and this horn made war against the saints, and prevailed against them, until the Ancient of days came and gave judgment to the saints of the most high God, and the time came, and the saints obtained the kingdom.”4665 Then, further on, in the interpretation of the vision, there was said to him: “The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall excel all other kingdoms, and devour the whole earth, and tread it down, and cut it in pieces. And its ten horns are ten kings which shall arise; and after them shall arise another, who shall surpass in evil deeds all that were before 554 him, and shall overthrow three kings; and he shall speak words against the most high God, and wear out the saints of the most high God, and shall purpose to change times and laws; and [everything] shall be given into his hand until a time of times and a half time,”4666 that is, for three years and six months, during which time, when he comes, he shall reign over the earth. Of whom also the Apostle Paul again, speaking in the second [Epistle] to the Thessalonians, and at the same time proclaiming the cause of his advent, thus says: “And then shall the wicked one be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus shall slay with the spirit of His mouth, and destroy by the presence of His coming; whose coming [i.e., the wicked one’s] is after the working of Satan, in all power, and signs, and portents of lies, and with all deceivableness of wickedness for those who perish; because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And therefore God will send them the working of error, that they may believe a lie; that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but gave consent to iniquity,”4667

4. The Lord also spoke as follows to those who did not believe in Him: “I have come in my Father’s name, and ye have not received Me: when another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive,”4668 calling Antichrist “the other,” because he is alienated from the Lord. This is also the unjust judge, whom the Lord mentioned as one “who feared not God, neither regarded man,”4669 to whom the widow fled in her forgetfulness of God,—that is, the earthly Jerusalem,—to be avenged of her adversary. Which also he shall do in the time of his kingdom: he shall remove his kingdom into that [city], and shall sit in the temple of God, leading astray those who worship him, as if he were Christ. To this purpose Daniel says again: “And he shall desolate the holy place; and sin has been given for a sacrifice,4670 and righteousness been cast away in the earth, and he has been active (fecit), and gone on prosperously.”4671 And the angel Gabriel, when explaining his vision, states with regard to this person: “And towards the end of their kingdom a king of a most fierce countenance shall arise, one understanding [dark] questions, and exceedingly powerful, full of wonders; and he shall corrupt, direct, influence (faciet), and put strong men down, the holy people likewise; and his yoke shall be directed as a wreath [round their neck]; deceit shall be in his hand, and he shall be lifted up in his heart: he shall also ruin many by deceit, and lead many to perdition, bruising them in his hand like eggs.”4672 And then he points out the time that his tyranny shall last, during which the saints shall be put to flight, they who offer a pure sacrifice unto God: “And in the midst of the week,” he says, “the sacrifice and the libation shall be taken away, and the abomination of desolation [shall be brought] into the temple: even unto the consummation of the time shall the desolation be complete.”4673 Now three years and six months constitute the half-week.

5. From all these passages are revealed to us, not merely the particulars of the apostasy, and [the doings] of him who concentrates in himself every satanic error, but also, that there is one and the same God the Father, who was declared by the prophets, but made manifest by Christ. For if what Daniel prophesied concerning the end has been confirmed by the Lord, when He said, “When ye shall see the abomination of desolation, which has been spoken of by Daniel the prophet”4674 (and the angel Gabriel gave the interpretation of the visions to Daniel, and he is the archangel of the Creator (Demiurgi), who also proclaimed to Mary the visible coming and the incarnation of Christ), then one and the same God is most manifestly pointed out, who sent the prophets, and made promise4675 of the Son, and called us into His knowledge.

Before you tell me it is gnostic understand this! Iraneus was the student of Polycarp, who was the student of the Apostle John. Do you understand? He is from the first fruits. He knows what he is talking about!

This on top of ALL of the word of God which you WILL NOT accept makes Skolfeild and YOUR doctrine New and FALSE. Your a fraud. While the right thing to do would be do dismantle your websites and rebuild them with truth (Bible)  I am sure you will not do that. That would be to much work.
So I will visit you again sometime in the future I may check in time to time. Because there is one thing I am certain of and that is this. History will prove you to be the heretic that you are!

If this don't sound familiar your not paying attention. Here is some more truth.

youtube.com/watch?v=xw2FhXZ9tiw

The very same thing today in America. This is the four hidden Dynasties at there very BEST!

Here is some more of that smut for you. Those "Jews" you speak so fondly of!

youtube.com/watch?v=IX9Tk2TMA6Q

This was broadcast on tv israelienne  youtube.com/watch?v=qtVpHUjwQSA

And this is even worse. Our "Muslim Enemies" even Condemn jewish blasphemy Against Jesus
youtube.com/watch?v=C7IzvywgeX0
She called Jesus a Nazi like you have called me a thousand times.

You say I am racist because you don't understand. Actually political Zionism is the most dangerous thing for real Judah there has ever been. And once again I love our brother Judah. I just don't happen to think the people that make stuff like what is above could be real Judah.

Brothers we can see that Michael2 consistently had trouble with truth, as even in his last effort to excuse away the very negative internet press on his false prophet Arnold Murray with.....

Quote from: Michael2 on March 24, 2012, 10:58:05 PM

Google is the filth and trash, people like you use to gossip about teachers of Gods word. As I said before you can google King James and read all the smut people put out there and it is lies. Just like what they put out there about Murray.

Yet his suggestion couldn't be more verifiable false. All one has to do is Google - king james version - to find millions of sites that endorse it, promote it, and pour the accolades onto the King James Version, with descriptions like "beloved" and "favorite". This even though the King James Version is in the public domain, so nobody stands to make royalties from it's sale, like Rupert Murdoch's NIV and other pop-versions that spring from Westcott and Hort.

I can sympathize as I remember back when I was a futurist too, and the first time I did a I did a web search of my doctrine, and was introduced to the truth. I thought "Woah, the internet isn't the kind of place to learn more about my doctrine!". The search I did must have produced results that looked something like this.

LOL That depends on whos truth you are talking about! None of which you have! And yes KJ does get accolades from people like ME but there are MANY who speak falsely of it. You boys talk a lot about being indoctrinated for people who have taken the word of a Man verses Scripture. Which YOU have. I study the word for my self which is more than I can say about you. Pete seeing all the documentation you have from Skolfeild it appears that you agree with ONLY what this MAN says. That is cultic if I have ever seen it.

Marturion Do you have any Idea how hard it is to disprove ones lies to the ONE that is lying? You are SO indoctrinated you can't see the forest for the trees. I don't want you to believe anything I say nor am I hear to prove a point. My goal for everyone is to read the word of God for their self. The point being made about After tribulation. Is That tribulation happens Right before Christ returns. You two make out like all of the things Christ warned about has already happened. Some have, but most, and in-particularly the things that happen just before his return have NOT. You talk badly about men like Scofield Darby and the like, because they teach a pre-trib and future antichrist. Yet you are in fact saying the VERY SAME thing about the return of Christ except for the antichrist, and that is the only difference I see between you two and them. It is ridiculous. If you would think for you self half a second you would see this. You think you are in tribulation now. Did you read the description of what Jesus and the prophets said it would be like during that time. LOL Have you seen one make fire come from heaven? What about giving life to the image of the beast? What about world peace? Of course it is fake peace. Have you seen ANY of these things? If so educate me! Show me in the word of God and History when and where these things happened! We could go on for a while as to what it is going to be like during that time but you have already read it. Right? So put these things into Historic reference for me. I am curious how it is you can claim and show all these things have already happened.

Quote from: Michael2 on March 24, 2012, 09:53:59 PM

Quote

For starters Jesus referred us to Daniel for understanding on the abomination of desolation not Paul. Yes "it" can refer to a person when the sex is unkown, are you implying you don't know the sex of a man? Also the temple of God is not a man made temple in Jerusalem but the body of a believer or the corporate body. Can you show where Paul said the temple of God is a man made building? Wasn't Paul the one who told us about the man of sin, the same Paul who told us the body of the believer or the corporate body is the temple of God? Why do you ignore what Paul says to stand by the teachings of a false prophet who predicted Armagedon in 1985 and as we can all see that didn't happen. Do you really trust the teachings of a false prophet?

Do you have a Bible?? Did you read Daniel 9:27? HE HE It DOES refer to what ever is being discussed. CONTEXT is King. The temple can be physical OR spiritual we have been over this! No I do not ignore what Paul teaches you do! Murray knows more Bible than you two will ever know! AGAIN, I hate redundancy, Occams Razor. MANY stand in line to try and destroy teachers of God's word. You wouldn't be the first that has failed at this.

The he in Dan9:27 is not the abomination that makes desolate. He is the one that sets it up. Where did Paul, the one who wrote the verse in question tell us the temple of God was? How can a building the Jews build be the temple of God when Christ Himself declared their temple desolate approximately 2000 years ago, you know 40 or so years before it was destroyed? No ones trying to destroy teachers of God's word but we have already proven Arnold Murray to be a false prophet/teacher.

You haven't proven anything nor do I think you can! And how you get your interpretation of Dan 9:27 is beyond me that is not how that reads. And when Jesus refers to Daniel. This IS what he is referring to!
As to Paul. Once again he knew the difference between physical and spiritual. This is kinda like when Paul wrote to the Thes. The first time. I don't think for one second that he thought they would be confused by this, but they were. After writing the second letter there was NO confusion to the learned. He wrote that one as plain as any could have written it. As far as the temple of God, when Paul wrote this the temple was still standing. I think I have already pointed this out. I know what Paul said (once again) about the temple being the body of Christ I think everyone understands and is in agreeance with this. But you have to realize he is speaking spiritually! If you don't understand that I can't help you.

Quote from: Michael2 on March 24, 2012, 09:46:48 PM

Quote from: Peter on March 24, 2012, 09:39:36 PM

Quote from: Michael2 on March 24, 2012, 09:12:28 PM

Quote from: Marturion on March 24, 2012, 08:59:04 PM

Quote from: Michael2 on March 24, 2012, 08:52:09 PM

Quote from: Marturion on March 24, 2012, 08:29:46 PM

Quote from: Michael2 on March 24, 2012, 07:18:33 PM

Quote from: Marturion on March 19, 2012, 09:20:44 PM

Michael2

1Jn 2:18  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7  For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Maybe you could show us which one of the only 4 verses that use the term antichrist or antichrists tell us about your boogeyman antichrist that is still in our future?

Why do you disagree with what/where Paul told us the temple of God is?
Who are the elect that are enemies of the gospel?
What is the difference  between the spirit of slumber and the spirit of antichrist?

Well if I can only pick of the four then it is OBVIOUS!
1Jn 2:18  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

that antichrist shall COME. even now are there many!! See John knew the scripture teaches that there is a coming antichrist that is THE antichrist. But what he is saying in this verse is that there are NOW many that deny the Christ. John defines this for us in 1 John 2:22 so there is no guessing as to what his definition is. I pointed this out in another post to Pete that since there where no Muslim when this was written WHO do you think he is talking about. Which by the way Pete you didn't answer. I think you don't like the hard Questions. Anyway.. If we go into other scripture like Mat 24 and Mark 13 Luke 21 2 Thes 2 and then we can go into the minor and major prophets. This is what the word of God teaches us and I really don't see with all the explanation of scripture I have given you don't see it.

So you don't believe what John told us when he said "this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world"?  If the one we heard should come isn't the one we heard shall come maybe you could show us where it was they heard about this one?

1Jn 2:18  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

The reason you can only pick from these 4 is simple they are the only 4 verses that speak of antichrist. 

I also asked you about the temple of God, Where did Paul tell us it was? Why do you ignore what he told us and believe some man made building can be the temple of God?
Heb 8:1 - 2  Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

No I agree with John 100%. You don't understand what John was saying!

If Jihn was not referring to the antichrist from 1John2:18 when he said "this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. " in 1John4:3 Then where is it we heard this one shall come? Book chapter and verse please?

This is getting redundant! Dan 9:27 Mat 24:15 2 Thes 2:3
Watch REAL close

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

If you can't understand the son of Perdition IS SATAN then you are already deceived. If you can't see that Jesus HIMSELF will destroy this one you are deceived. Understand? Guys this stuff is pretty simple if you will listen to the word of God. Quit listening to men and trust the Lord. He has foretold us all things. Just like God told Noah exactly what would happen in his day here Paul is telling us and Jesus told us in the Olivet Discourse!

You are jumping into futurist doctrine rather than addressing his point. Piling another of Darby's futurist false presumptions onto an earlier misunderstanding doesn't make it right. Maybe this will help:

"ye have heard that antichrist shall come"
"this is that [spirit] of antichrist, ye have heard that it should come"

All of those verses talk about "that spirit of antichrist"

I absolutely DID address his point. But because it don't fit your way of thinking you reject it.
Ellis Skolfeild was asked about the son of perdition once! His answer? I don't know! Fact.
Also I have asked Both of you. WHO was John referring to as Anti Christ in that day? Go ahead and say it. I know you know the answer. LOL That don't really fit your way of thinking either does it?

As I have already pointed out parrotting the same old doctrinally based argument does not prove your point. Where does Scripture say the man of sin is your boogieman aka the antichrist? Where does Paul tell us the temple of God is? Why do you ignore what Paul tells us yet believe a known false prophet?

speaking of parroting!!! Here is a fact for you. YOU in fact deny the word of God. You can't take what fits you or makes your way of thinking work! I have already told you that Temple is physical or spiritual. I think you just run out of things to say didn't you? Daniel refers to the "boogieman" LOL as HE. POint Blank. May be you can read that different some how. I see it as Satan. Also are you saying that Paul's writing is not inspired?? That is dangerous ground. Do you think he is a false prophet as well?? If NO. Then what he said must be correct then RIGHT? HE said the "boogieman" will be destroyed with the brightness of Jesus Coming? Seems pretty simple to me. Now if you would rather how about Mark 13
14But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet (Dan 9:27), standing where it ( here along with Dan 9:27 should be HE and Dr. Moffit does translate this HE!) ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: 15And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house: 16And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
These verses refer to how urgent the situation is. What Jesus is saying is when you see this, The abomination from Dan, the end is that close. i.e. Jesus return.
17But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
this reference is lets you know for a fact that the abomination is a HE. He is warning you not to play the harlot spiritually with "IT".
 18And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. 19For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. 20And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days. 21And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: 22For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. 23But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

24But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
do you see that? after that tribulation the tribulation of "IT" then Jesus will return like Paul said. Jesus will consume HIM (the abomination, the one sitting in the temple claiming to be God) with the brightness of his coming.
27And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
There is sound doctrine. You make this harder than it is. One more thing prophecy is NOT of private interpretation. The word of God is pretty plain about this.

Quote from: Michael2 on March 24, 2012, 09:12:28 PM

Quote from: Marturion on March 24, 2012, 08:59:04 PM

Quote from: Michael2 on March 24, 2012, 08:52:09 PM

Quote from: Marturion on March 24, 2012, 08:29:46 PM

Quote from: Michael2 on March 24, 2012, 07:18:33 PM

Quote from: Marturion on March 19, 2012, 09:20:44 PM

Michael2

1Jn 2:18  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7  For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Maybe you could show us which one of the only 4 verses that use the term antichrist or antichrists tell us about your boogeyman antichrist that is still in our future?

Why do you disagree with what/where Paul told us the temple of God is?
Who are the elect that are enemies of the gospel?
What is the difference  between the spirit of slumber and the spirit of antichrist?

Well if I can only pick of the four then it is OBVIOUS!
1Jn 2:18  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

that antichrist shall COME. even now are there many!! See John knew the scripture teaches that there is a coming antichrist that is THE antichrist. But what he is saying in this verse is that there are NOW many that deny the Christ. John defines this for us in 1 John 2:22 so there is no guessing as to what his definition is. I pointed this out in another post to Pete that since there where no Muslim when this was written WHO do you think he is talking about. Which by the way Pete you didn't answer. I think you don't like the hard Questions. Anyway.. If we go into other scripture like Mat 24 and Mark 13 Luke 21 2 Thes 2 and then we can go into the minor and major prophets. This is what the word of God teaches us and I really don't see with all the explanation of scripture I have given you don't see it.

So you don't believe what John told us when he said "this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world"?  If the one we heard should come isn't the one we heard shall come maybe you could show us where it was they heard about this one?

1Jn 2:18  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

The reason you can only pick from these 4 is simple they are the only 4 verses that speak of antichrist. 

I also asked you about the temple of God, Where did Paul tell us it was? Why do you ignore what he told us and believe some man made building can be the temple of God?
Heb 8:1 - 2  Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

No I agree with John 100%. You don't understand what John was saying!

If Jihn was not referring to the antichrist from 1John2:18 when he said "this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. " in 1John4:3 Then where is it we heard this one shall come? Book chapter and verse please?

This is getting redundant! Dan 9:27 Mat 24:15 2 Thes 2:3
Watch REAL close

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

If you can't understand the son of Perdition IS SATAN then you are already deceived. If you can't see that Jesus HIMSELF will destroy this one you are deceived. Understand? Guys this stuff is pretty simple if you will listen to the word of God. Quit listening to men and trust the Lord. He has foretold us all things. Just like God told Noah exactly what would happen in his day here Paul is telling us and Jesus told us in the Olivet Discourse!

You are jumping into futurist doctrine rather than addressing his point. Piling another of Darby's futurist false presumptions onto an earlier misunderstanding doesn't make it right. Maybe this will help:

"ye have heard that antichrist shall come"
"this is that [spirit] of antichrist, ye have heard that it should come"

All of those verses talk about "that spirit of antichrist"

I absolutely DID address his point. But because it don't fit your way of thinking you reject it.
Ellis Skolfeild was asked about the son of perdition once! His answer? I don't know! Fact.
Also I have asked Both of you. WHO was John referring to as Anti Christ in that day? Go ahead and say it. I know you know the answer. LOL That don't really fit your way of thinking either does it?

Quote from: Michael2 on March 24, 2012, 08:52:09 PM

Quote from: Marturion on March 24, 2012, 08:29:46 PM

Quote from: Michael2 on March 24, 2012, 07:18:33 PM

Quote from: Marturion on March 19, 2012, 09:20:44 PM

Michael2

1Jn 2:18  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7  For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Maybe you could show us which one of the only 4 verses that use the term antichrist or antichrists tell us about your boogeyman antichrist that is still in our future?

Why do you disagree with what/where Paul told us the temple of God is?
Who are the elect that are enemies of the gospel?
What is the difference  between the spirit of slumber and the spirit of antichrist?

Well if I can only pick of the four then it is OBVIOUS!
1Jn 2:18  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

that antichrist shall COME. even now are there many!! See John knew the scripture teaches that there is a coming antichrist that is THE antichrist. But what he is saying in this verse is that there are NOW many that deny the Christ. John defines this for us in 1 John 2:22 so there is no guessing as to what his definition is. I pointed this out in another post to Pete that since there where no Muslim when this was written WHO do you think he is talking about. Which by the way Pete you didn't answer. I think you don't like the hard Questions. Anyway.. If we go into other scripture like Mat 24 and Mark 13 Luke 21 2 Thes 2 and then we can go into the minor and major prophets. This is what the word of God teaches us and I really don't see with all the explanation of scripture I have given you don't see it.

So you don't believe what John told us when he said "this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world"?  If the one we heard should come isn't the one we heard shall come maybe you could show us where it was they heard about this one?

1Jn 2:18  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

The reason you can only pick from these 4 is simple they are the only 4 verses that speak of antichrist. 

I also asked you about the temple of God, Where did Paul tell us it was? Why do you ignore what he told us and believe some man made building can be the temple of God?
Heb 8:1 - 2  Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

No I agree with John 100%. You don't understand what John was saying!

If Jihn was not referring to the antichrist from 1John2:18 when he said "this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. " in 1John4:3 Then where is it we heard this one shall come? Book chapter and verse please?

This is getting redundant! Dan 9:27 Mat 24:15 2 Thes 2:3
Watch REAL close

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

If you can't understand the son of Perdition IS SATAN then you are already deceived. If you can't see that Jesus HIMSELF will destroy this one you are deceived. Understand? Guys this stuff is pretty simple if you will listen to the word of God. Quit listening to men and trust the Lord. He has foretold us all things. Just like God told Noah exactly what would happen in his day here Paul is telling us and Jesus told us in the Olivet Discourse!

Quote from: Michael2 on March 24, 2012, 07:56:31 PM

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What portions of the book of Revelation - after chapter 3 - do you believe have been fulfilled?

Why do you ask like this? What happens in Rev 3. Are you one of those that think John represents the Church. And when told to come up hither, that it is the rapture of the Church?

Seems you are so scripted by the false prophet you follow you are rendered incapable of simply answering questions.
Most Christians understand the first 3 chapters of Revelation are John addressing the church, while chapter 4 is the beginning of John's prophetic vision.
So what portions of Revelation, from chapter 4 until the end, do you believe have been fulfilled?

False Prophet. That is FUNNY. Again Occams Razor! It is not wise to speak bad of real teachers of Gods word.  Speaking Of answering Questions you disregard MANY yourself. So again do YOU believe that John represents the Church. Yes NO will sufice! As to timeline we are in the fifth seal! and It appears the 1st beast of Rev 13 is rising.

What portions of the book of Revelation - after chapter 3 - do you believe have been fulfilled?

Why do you ask like this? What happens in Rev 3. Are you one of those that think John represents the Church. And when told to come up hither, that it is the rapture of the Church?

Quote from: Michael2 on March 24, 2012, 07:05:25 PM

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I have MANY MANY passages to prove what I KNOW to be fact, however this is something even after YEARS of study I still didn't understand until God showed me.

What I meant by this is, WHO these sons of Cain are today! I have known about the Sons of Cain for years, but just came into full understanding about a year and a half ago about who they are today! Go check out 1 Chron 2:55. Also they were with Israel when Baalam was hired to curse the children. We know this prophet-for-hire was not allowed to curse Israel, but look at his description of the future of the Kenites ( in the Hebrew this is Ben Kajin which literally translated means sons of Cain!) that accompanied them!
Numbers 24:21 21 And he looked on the Kenites, and took up his parable, and said, Strong is thy dwellingplace, and thou puttest thy nest in a ROCK. 22 Nevertheless the Kenite shall be wasted, until Asshur shall carry thee away captive. 23 And he took up his parable, and said, Alas, who shall live when God doeth this!

If you don't understand this then that is your problem.

See, your reference to a single tribe of Jews gave you/Murray away. Your reference to the Kenites confirmed it.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3150.0

LOL! So? Did I deny this?

Quote from: Michael2 on March 23, 2012, 07:49:30 PM

I have MANY MANY passages to prove what I KNOW to be fact, however this is something even after YEARS of study I still didn't understand until God showed me.

Did He? Let's see. Have you ever heard of a man named Arnold Murray?

YES HE DID! And yes I do know Pastor Murray.

I have MANY MANY passages to prove what I KNOW to be fact, however this is something even after YEARS of study I still didn't understand until God showed me.

What I meant by this is, WHO these sons of Cain are today! I have known about the Sons of Cain for years, but just came into full understanding about a year and a half ago about who they are today! Go check out 1 Chron 2:55. Also they were with Israel when Baalam was hired to curse the children. We know this prophet-for-hire was not allowed to curse Israel, but look at his description of the future of the Kenites ( in the Hebrew this is Ben Kajin which literally translated means sons of Cain!) that accompanied them!
Numbers 24:21 21 And he looked on the Kenites, and took up his parable, and said, Strong is thy dwellingplace, and thou puttest thy nest in a ROCK. 22 Nevertheless the Kenite shall be wasted, until Asshur shall carry thee away captive. 23 And he took up his parable, and said, Alas, who shall live when God doeth this!

If you don't understand this then that is your problem.