Islam, Muslim / Christian Forum - Welcome All

To answer everything you say I would require at least 2 hours and I have not that much time to spare.

I am off for 2 years.

I have school to worry about.

After I am back, Insha Allah I will speak with you again and answer every claim of yours.

Your claims are easy to answer, but require time, which I cannot spare.

Answer all my claims and not just those you can (thou stupidly) answer:

Bats are birds to the your God (Leviticus 11:13, 19).

Science has proven today that bats are mammals and not birds, because they do not have feathers, have fur and do not lay eggs.

The Bible says that the EARTH HAS PILLARS (1 Samuel 2:8, Job 9:6).

The Bible says the EARTH IS FIRMLY ESTABLISHED (Psalm 93:1, 1 Chronicals 16:30).

The Bible says that the EARTH IS FIXED AND THE SUN TRAVELS AROUND IT (Job 9:7).

The Bible says that the EARTH HAS FOUR CORNERS (Revelation 7:1)

I did not say I control the Holy Spirit.

God controls the Holy Spirit.

However I have my own spirit in me.

There are many spirits and one of them is the Holy Spirit.

Why can't you understand a word I say?

What I control is my own spirit, which is me.

The flesh is simply dead meat, made alive by my spirit.

Exodus 31:3 says that God filled Bezaleel with the Holy Spirit.

This means that he sent the Holy Spirit to inspire him.

What does that have to do with anything?

Messengers of God are those who recieve the Holy Spirit.

Tell me:

If Christians have the Holy Spirit in them then why are they the biggest sinners in the world?

I don't deny that I am covered in flesh.

I just said that the flesh is dead.

Where are you heading?

A dead end, I think because nothing you are saying is relevant.

Romans 3:10 is Paul and so is 1 Corinthians 6:19.

If I followed the accursed teachings of Paul I would not marry (1 Corinthians 7:1), would be the head of my wife and boss her around (1 Corinthians 11:3), would have women covered while praying and have their heads shaved if they do not do so (1 Corinthians 11:5-6), would force women to shut up in Church and be submissive (1 Corinthians 14:34-35), would not allow women to teach and force them into silence (1 Timothy 2:11-12) and would have my wife submit to me as if I am the Lord (Ephesians 5:22).

So there goes Paul.

And I do not follow Hebrews 9:22.

Stop giving me false doctrines of the Bible.

Jesus says:

"But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." (Matthew 9:13).

Jesus did not want sacrifice, so he did not want himself to be sacrificed for you.

He wanted sinners, like us to go into repentance.

God will forgive my sins and not some stupid blood money.

Matthew 26:28, I do not follow.

It also contradicts Matthew 9:13, where Jesus says that he does not desire sacrifice.

Jesus says:

"...Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."

What is the Gospel?

Is it the Gospel of Matthew, Mark, Luke or John?

No.

It is the Gospel of Jesus.

Where is this Gospel?

It is vanished.

There was such thing as a Gospel of Jesus, therefore according to Mark 16:15, written during his life.

Then where is it.

If you can find it, I am certain that it will prophesy the advent of Islam and Mohammad, as the seal of Prophets and mercy to mankind.

But it is lost.

You people threw it away.

Don't tell me to follow the Bible.

I follow the Gospel of Jesus, not the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

They are corrupted and man-altered.

Genesis 1:26 is a fabrication, to the scriptures.

It is nothing but a lie.

Why should I ever follow, that God made us in his image?

Did God create us to look like himself?

No, because we do not look like God at all.

So, where did this sick lie come from?

And Mohammad is not a false Prophet, mate.

Your Bible says otherwise:

1 John 4:2:

'This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus is the Christ (Messiah) who has come in the flesh is from God...'

1 John 5:1:

"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ (Messiah) is born of God..."

Surah Ale-Imran 3:45 says that Jesus is the Messiah and therefore we pass the test as spirits of God.

We Muslims and our Prophet are spirits of God and are born of God according to your Bible.

You have never touched on that and never answer it.

Why?

And if you worship one God, as the Bible teaches, then why do you believe in a Trinity.

Both concepts contradict one-another.

You said:

"You choose to follow the 23 year abrogation filled record of a 6th century pillaging, plundering, murdering, sexually enslaving, imperialistic conquering false prophet..."

Actually the Prophets of the Bible are ordered by your God to pillage, plunder, murder, rape and conquer:

Numbers 31:17-18:

"Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man, but save for yourselves the girls who have not slept with a man".

Deuteronomy 20:10-14:

"As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace.  If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor.  But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town.  When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town.  But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder.  You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you."

Our Prophet did not pillage any town.

Our Prophet took the spoils of war, so that the Muslims could use them to improve their nation with 20% of it and give the rest to orphans, poor people, sick people and broken families.

The Muslims only murdered oppressors in acts of self-defense and to stop oppression.

What would you do?

While Hitler is killing 1000s of Jews, would you all sit down and pray to the Lord to stop this oppression or would you get ready to fight them yourselves to stop oppression?

Simple answer.

You must fight to end oppression and that is what our Prophet did.

If you sat down and prayed, God would give you nothing because you are a useless person who can do nothing except sit and pray.

Go out there and join in some action to end oppression instead of sitting on your ass and praying.

That is how you can help.

About sexually enslaving.

Allah ordered us to free captives, if they wanted freedom and to even give them some money so they can make a living.(Surah an-Nur 24:33).

He only allowed us to have sexual relations with them so that we would not fornicate.

We would perform temporary marriage with them, and not be allowed to force them into sex, according to the verse I quoted.

Allah made temporary marriage lawful only in this case, so that we would not fornicate.

And we did not conquer those who were peaceful, did not seek to destroy Islam and did not oppress.

We only conquered those who were oppressive, who sought to destroy Islam and did not make peace.

I deny that blood can save, because I am a Muslim.

If I followed the Bible, I would contradict myself 600 and probably more, times.

Blood cannot save anyone.

God will forgive my sins, not blood.

Blood is created by God.

I seek remission from the creator.

You seek remission from the created.

That is why we are the truth and you are falsehood.

You have to answer this, mate:

According to the Bible, I am born of God, as are all Muslims and as is Prophet Mohammad:

1 John 5:1:

"Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ (Messiah) is born of God..."

I believe Jesus is the Messiah and the Qur'an testifies that Jesus is the Messiah (Surah Ale-Imran 3:45).

We Muslims and our Prophet believe the Qur'an to be the literal word of God and therefore we believe and testify that Jesus is the Messiah.

Therefore according to the Bible we born of God.

If we are born of God, will we go to hell?

I say that I am not born of God, so does that mean I lied?

If I lied, tell me, can a person born of God lie?

If I didn't lie the Bible is lying?

Then it is not the word of God.

I am a spirit.

The flesh covering me is simply dead meat.

It would not be alive without the spirit.

I am one person.

The flesh is no person.

1+0=1

1 person.

But trinity:

1+1+1=3.

3 Gods.

You believe however that God the the Spirit is God and the Father is God.

That means that 2 distinct beings are both God, making God 2 and not 1.

Polytheism.

'Hear O Israel! The Lord our God is ONE LORD (Not 3 LORDS)' (Mark 12:29).

There goes your Holy Satanic Trinity.

To hell.

A polytheistic sick belief formed in 325 AD in Egypt, forged from Egyptian paganism, i.e, Osiris the 3-headed God.

1 John 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? HE IS ANTICHRIST, THAT DENIETH the Father and THE SON. 23 WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE FATHER: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

This verse proves we are not anti-Christ.

It says that he who denies the son is anti-Christ.

The son is Jesus and we do not deny him. We accept him as the Messiah is God.

It says who denies the father is anti-Christ.

The father is God and we do not deny God.

If it said: 'He who denies Jesus is the son of God is anti-Christ', we would be classified as anti-Christ, but it says that if we deny the son we are anti-Christ.

Therefore according to this verse we are not anti-Christ.

We will not go to hell for rejecting the false atonement.

We do eat at sunset, after fasting for 14 hours. What are we supposed to do?

Not eat at all and die.

You Christians don't even fast nor pray.

We always keep away from adultery, fornication and prostitution.

Having sex with slave girls is not prostitution. It is temporary marriage, where you marry her for sometime in order to avoid fornication.

The same rules of marriage apply, meaning that we cannot force them into sex.

Jesus did not even say that he who denies that he died for our sins will go to hell.

You will go to hell for worshiping 3 Gods, Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

And you never dare to touch on 1 John 4:1-3 which says that he who accepts that Jesus is the Messiah come in flesh is a true Spirit from God.

We accept that and thus go are true spirits from God, according to the Bible test.

And Prophet Mohammad passes this test and is therefore a Prophet from God, according to the Bible.

Your Bible is full of scientific errors and I will give you a few examples:

Bats are birds to the your God (Leviticus 11:13, 19).

Science has proven today that bats are mammals and not birds, because they do not have feathers, have fur and do not lay eggs.

The Bible says that the EARTH HAS PILLARS (1 Samuel 2:8, Job 9:6).

The Bible says the EARTH IS FIRMLY ESTABLISHED (Psalm 93:1, 1 Chronicals 16:30).

The Bible says that the EARTH IS FIXED AND THE SUN TRAVELS AROUND IT (Job 9:7).

The Bible says that the EARTH HAS FOUR CORNERS (Revelation 7:1)

These are sufficient proof that the Bible is not the word of God.

Answer these if your religion is true and your Bible is the word of God.

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Quote from: OneMuslimUmmah on September 29, 2008, 01:46:25 AM

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Quote from: Pete on September 27, 2008, 07:05:24 AM

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Quote from: OneMuslimUmmah on September 26, 2008, 11:06:46 PM

<br /><br />Well he is one of the Mightiest Messengers of God.<br /><br />God chooses people as messengers who are aware of what they do and can easily resist sin.<br /><br />This includes Jesus as well as Prophet Mohammad.<br />

<br /><br />That's preposterous. Even Mohammed's words and deeds are full of hate. <br /><br />Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them<br /><br />His words are why Muslims are full of hate today. Especially for Jews. <br /><br />He plundered caravans and murdered. He was a sexual madman. His imperialistic conquest was the very embodiment of sin. To pretend that Mohammed was anything but sinful is absurd.<br /><br />That's why the Islamic Mufti of of Jerusalem conspired shoulder to shoulder with Hitler. That's why middle east Muslims hate Jews and want to &quot;drive them into the sea&quot; and murder them down to the last man.<br /><br />

<br /><br />Surah al-Anfal 8:12 is not why Muslims are full of hate today.<br /><br />The reason Muslims are full of hate today is the injustice done to them by Christians and Zionists.<br />

<br /><br />But even you know this is an invalid and flimsy excuse to deny the second jihad's ambition for global conquest.<br />How does Zionism explain almost 12,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks around the world, just since 9-11? Or two million slain in the Sudan alone. Or:<br /><br />In Indonesia 3 teenage girls were beheaded on their way to their Christian school and one head left on the steps of a Church.&nbsp; The note left behind reads:&nbsp; &quot;We will murder 100 more Christian teenagers and their heads will be presented as presents.&quot;<br /><br />&quot;Once again, women are the targets. In mid-March, rebels assaulted three women gathering firewood and cut off their ears, lips, and breasts.&quot;<br />&quot;Starting in 2003, Janjaweed Arabs, a Sudan-backed militia, have driven 2 million villagers from their homes in ethnic-cleansing attacks designed to suppress local rebels.&quot;<br /><br />&quot;Eyewitness accounts detailing the militia attacks are horrifying. &quot;They killed my 3-year-old son right in front of my eyes,&quot; one father from West Darfur said. Since last fall, women have reported more than 500 rapes. Three women said five militiamen beat and raped them last August. The women said, &quot;After they abused us, they told us that now we would have Arab babies. And, if they would find any [more] women, they would rape them again to change the color of their children.&quot;&quot;<br /><br />&quot;AP - MOGADISHU, Somalia — Residents of a southern Somalia town who do not pray five times a day will be beheaded, an official said Wednesday, adding the edict will be implemented in three days.&quot;<br /><br />http://www.beholdthebeast.com/great_tribulation.htm<br /><br />

Quote from: OneMuslimUmmah on September 29, 2008, 01:46:25 AM

<br />Zionists kill innocent Muslims and illegally blockade the Gaza strip. Over 1 000 000 Muslims have been killed by Jewish terrorism ever since Israel formed.<br /><br />See the pictures of women and children being massacred by Israeli terror attacks. See the pictures of dead and injured victims of Zionist terrorism:<br /><br />authenticsunnah.org/pali_torture.htm<br /><br />Americans have killed over 500 000 Iraqi children, and have deformed 1000s of Iraqi children with chemical weapons, that they literally look like aliens;<br /><br />authenticsunnah.org/iraqi_torture.htm<br />

<br /><br />You can believe your propaganda but the world is witness to the U.S. bringing freedom and the right to self-determination of the Iraqi people. I do understand, however, that few things are more vilified by Islam more than freedom.<br /><br />

Quote from: OneMuslimUmmah on September 29, 2008, 01:46:25 AM

<br />See the pictures and you will be horified more than you have ever been at the cruelty of the American terrorists.<br /><br />That is why Muslims get angry.<br />

<br /><br />They aren't angry. They are just busily conquering the world like their book mandates. You know, &quot;...all the mountaintops...&quot; blah blah blah.<br /><br />

Quote from: OneMuslimUmmah on September 29, 2008, 01:46:25 AM

<br /><br />See the real reasons and see how Muslims suffer everyday.<br />

<br />Muslims suffer every day because Islam has removed their interest in striving and being productive citizens of the world economy. They were ruined by Mohammed:<br /><br />“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live…The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities…but the influence of the religion paralyzes the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa…and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.” - by Sir Winston Churchill - The River War, Vol. II, pp. 248-50, London; Longman, Green &amp; Co., 1899<br /><br />

Quote from: OneMuslimUmmah on September 29, 2008, 01:46:25 AM

<br />This will change your mind very much and reveal why Muslims get angry and the reasons behind their attacks.<br /><br /><br />And about Surah al-Anfal 8:12, it only refers to the diebelievers at the Battle of Bedr.<br /><br />Allah told us to smite their necks and strike their finger tips.<br />

<br /><br />That's why Islam is the opposite of God's work. 5 centuries before we were instructed:<br /><br />Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;<br /><br />Sorry my friend. God didn't flip on us.<br /><br />

Quote from: OneMuslimUmmah on September 29, 2008, 01:46:25 AM

<br />Striking their finger tips would cripple them and make it easier to attack them and smiting their necks would kill them.<br /><br />These were disbelievers who tortured and killed so many innocent Muslims from the start of the Message from God Almighty.<br /><br />Everything has been explained.<br />

<br />Indeed it has. Islam was prophecied in God's Word, long before Mohammed was ever born.<br />http://www.beholdthebeast.com/the_beast.htm<br />

<br /><br />Everything you said is false.<br /><br />USA does not bring any freedom to the world. They kill and mutilate so many innocent children in Iraq.<br /><br />They kill innocent people for fun, but the media hides that.<br /><br />I am not fooled by any propaganda. It is you who are the fool and your ignorance will cost you your soul for eternity in hell.<br /><br />What some Muslims do is not what Islam teaches. There are Christians who do the same thing, yet we do not place that all over the media, because we are fair and not unfair like you people.<br /><br />The west is aiming to destroy Islam so that it can prosper and take control of the land.<br /><br />Did they find any Nukes in Iraq?<br /><br />No.<br /><br />I gave you a link showing so many pictures of innocent children literally mutilated by Americans, yet you have no sympathy or heart.<br /><br />This is what Christianity teaches you.<br /><br />Will we go to hell?<br /><br />Why?<br /><br />Most Muslims (not all) pray, fast, keep away from adultery, avoid divorce, love our neighbours, do righteous behavious, lower our gaze when a woman walks past, shelter orphans, give charity and love our wives, mothers and children, read the Qur'an.<br /><br />This is what Jesus taught in the Bible and yet Muslims follow it and not Chrisitians.<br /><br />Most (not all) Christians never fast, pray, always divorce and commit adultery, perve at women, look at porn, never give alms and do not even read nor look at one word of the Bible.<br /><br />We are more Christians than Christians themselves, so why would we ever go to hell.<br /><br />You people will go to hell, according to what Jesus said in Matthew 5:27-32, for looking at women to lust for them, when you see pornography and all that crap.<br /><br />But we avoid that.<br /><br />And loving your enemies is stupid.<br /><br />If we love Hitler where would we be?<br /><br />We would be his slaves today.<br /><br />We do pray for those who persecute us in accordance with the teachings of Prophet Mohammad, but we never love our enemy.<br /><br />Loving your enemies makes them kill you and overtake you.<br /><br />Where would the world be, if we all loved Hitler rather than taking action?<br /><br />Huh?<br /><br />Exactly.<br /><br />Therefore all you have said is false.<br /><br />The people Prophet Mohammad killed were either those who betrayed oaths and took part in conspiracies, those who killed innocent Muslims and persecuted them for a long time or those who oppressed their own people, by beating the poor, the weak, the slaves, forcing women into marriage and sex and much more.<br /><br />Therefore his actions were righteous and neccessary.<br /><br />Mohammad ressurrected the knowledge, the teachings and the monotheism that Moses and Jesus taught in the Bible to idol-worshipers.<br /><br />He taught what they taught, did what they did and guided as they guided.<br /><br />Plus he passed the Prophetic test in 1 John 4:1-3, which was that whoever accepts that Jesus is the Messiah in flesh is a true spirit.<br /><br />In Surah Ale-Imran 3:45 Jesus is called the Messiah of God and therefore Prophet Mohammad accepted that.<br /><br />Therefore he passes the test, he is a Prophet according to the Bible.<br /><br />That is all I can say and end it.<br /><br />Prove me that 1 John 4:1-3 does not prove Mohammad is a Prophet from God Almighty.<br /><br />You can't and you have never touched on that because you fear it the most.', 'xx'),
   

Quote from: OneMuslimUmmah on September 26, 2008, 11:06:46 PM

Well he is one of the Mightiest Messengers of God.

God chooses people as messengers who are aware of what they do and can easily resist sin.

This includes Jesus as well as Prophet Mohammad.

That's preposterous. Even Mohammed's words and deeds are full of hate.

Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

His words are why Muslims are full of hate today. Especially for Jews.

He plundered caravans and murdered. He was a sexual madman. His imperialistic conquest was the very embodiment of sin. To pretend that Mohammed was anything but sinful is absurd.

That's why the Islamic Mufti of of Jerusalem conspired shoulder to shoulder with Hitler. That's why middle east Muslims hate Jews and want to "drive them into the sea" and murder them down to the last man.

Surah al-Anfal 8:12 is not why Muslims are full of hate today.

The reason Muslims are full of hate today is the injustice done to them by Christians and Zionists.

Zionists kill innocent Muslims and illegally blockade the Gaza strip. Over 1 000 000 Muslims have been killed by Jewish terrorism ever since Israel formed.

See the pictures of women and children being massacred by Israeli terror attacks. See the pictures of dead and injured victims of Zionist terrorism:

authenticsunnah.org/pali_torture.htm

Americans have killed over 500 000 Iraqi children, and have deformed 1000s of Iraqi children with chemical weapons, that they literally look like aliens;

authenticsunnah.org/iraqi_torture.htm

See the pictures and you will be horified more than you have ever been at the cruelty of the American terrorists.

That is why Muslims get angry.

See the real reasons and see how Muslims suffer everyday.

This will change your mind very much and reveal why Muslims get angry and the reasons behind their attacks.





And about Surah al-Anfal 8:12, it only refers to the diebelievers at the Battle of Bedr.

Allah told us to smite their necks and strike their finger tips.

Striking their finger tips would cripple them and make it easier to attack them and smiting their necks would kill them.

These were disbelievers who tortured and killed so many innocent Muslims from the start of the Message from God Almighty.

Everything has been explained.

This article from The American Thinker.
You can Yahoo this stuff. There is no shortage of Hadith reporting.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2006/03/muhammads_dead_poets_society.html

"The assassination of satirical poets

Once Muhammad reached Medina in AD 622 and gradually grew in military power, his tone and outlook changed. The following murders occur after the Hijrah.

    (1) March 624: Al'Nadr bin al'Harith

Before Muhammad's Hijrah, he used to sit in the assembly and invite the Meccans to Allah, citing the Quran and warning them of God's punishment for mocking his prophets. A Meccan named Al'Nadr bin al'Harith would then follow him and speak about heroes and kings of Persia, saying, 'By God, Muhammad cannot tell a better story than I, and his talk is only of old fables which he has copied as I have.' On other days al'Nadr would interrupt Muhammad until the prophet silenced him.

It was Nadr's bad fortune to join Mecca's army, riding north to protect their caravan, which Muhammad attacked at the Battle of Badr in AD 624. It pitted about 320 Muslims against about 1,000 Meccans, near the north�south trade route following the Red Sea. The story=telling polytheist was captured, and on Muhammad's return journey back to Medina, Ali, Muhammad's cousin and son�in�law, at Muhammad's order, beheaded him, instead of getting some possible ransom money. He was one of two prisoners who were executed and not allowed to be ransomed by their clans�all because he harassed Muhammad and wrote poems and told stories critiquing him. [2]

    (2) March 624: Uqbah bin Abu Muayt

A similar story as that of Nadr can be told about Uqba bin Abu Muayt. He too harassed and mocked Muhammad in Mecca and wrote derogatory verses about him. He too was captured during the Battle of Badr, and Muhammad ordered him to be executed. 'But who will look after my children, O Muhammad?' Uqba cried with anguish. 'Hell,' retorted the Prophet coldly. Then the sword of one of his followers cut through Uqba's neck.

After the prophet's victory at Badr, he was not always magnanimous. This passage finds him mocking the enemy dead in the middle of the night, as their bodies lie motionless in a pit:

    . . . The apostle's companions heard him saying in the middle of the night, 'O people of the pit: O Utbah, O Shayba, O Ummayya, O Abu Jahl,' enumerating all who had been thrown in the pit, 'Have you found what God promises you is true? I have found that what my Lord promised me is true.' The Muslims said, 'Are you calling to dead bodies?' He answered: 'you cannot hear what I say better than they, but they cannot answer me. [3]

The reliable hadith collector and editor Bukhari confirms Ibn Ishaq's account.

    These were the battles of Allah's Apostle (which he fought), and while mentioning (the Badr battle) he said, "While the corpses of the pagans were being thrown into the well, Allah's Apostle said (to them), 'Have you found what your Lord promised true?" 'Abdullah said, "Some of the Prophet's companions said, "O Allah's Apostle! You are addressing dead people.' Allah's Apostle replied, 'You do not hear what I am saying, better than they.'  (Bukhari )

In this tradition the prophet is shown taunting the dead in a well, not a pit, and he seems to have done this in broad daylight. Maybe these are two different episodes in Ibn Ishaq and Bukhari; regardless, they convey the same unpleasant message. [4]

    (3) March 624: Asma bint Marwan

She was a poetess who belonged to a tribe of Medinan pagans. She composed a poem blaming them for obeying a stranger (Muhammad) and for not taking the initiative to attack him by surprise. Perhaps in March 624, when the Allah�inspired Prophet heard what she had said, he asked, 'Who will rid me of Marwan's daughter?' A member of her husband's tribe volunteered and crept into her house that night. She had five children, and the youngest was sleeping at her breast. The assassin gently removed the child, drew his sword, and plunged it into her, killing her in her sleep. [5]

    (4) September 624: Kab bin al�Ashraf

Kab b. al�Ashraf had a mixed ancestry. His father came from a nomadic Arab tribe, but his mother was a Jew from the powerful al�Nadir tribe in Medina. He lived as a member of his mother's tribe. He heard about the Muslim victory at the battle of Badr, and he was disgusted, for he thought Muhammad the newcomer to Medina was a trouble�maker and divisive. Kab had the gift of poetry, and after the Battle of Badr he traveled down to Mecca, apparently stopping by Badr, witnessing the aftermath. Arriving in Mecca, he wrote a widely circulated poem, a hostile lament, over the dead of Mecca.

Angered by the poems and now able to strike back after the Battle of Badr, Muhammad had had enough. He asked, 'Who would rid me of [Kab]?' Five Muslims volunteered, one of whom was Kab's foster�brother named Abu Naila. They informed him, 'O apostle of God, we shall have to tell lies.' He answered, 'Say what you like, for you are free in the matter.'

After deceitfully gaining Kab's trust over time, a Muslim yelled to the four other murderers, 'Smite the enemy of God!' Though outnumbered, Kab mounted a strong defense, so their swords were ineffective. Finally, one of the conspirators remembered his dagger, stabbed Kab in the belly, and then bore it down until it reached his genitals, killing him.

They made it back to Muhammad. They saluted the prophet as he stood praying, and he came out to them. They told him that the mission was accomplished. Early Muslim historian Tabari (d. 923) reports that the five Muslim thugs severed Kab's head and brought it to Muhammad. [6]

    (5) July�August 625: A one�eyed, unnamed Bedouin

In revenge for an ambush on some Muslim missionaries, Muhammad sent Amr bin Umayya and a companion to assassinate Abu Sufyan, a leader of the Meccans. This shows that the Prophet could get caught up in the cycle of violence that went on endlessly in seventh�century Arab culture. Umayyah failed in his attempt, and he had to flee under pursuit, hiding in a cave, murdering a man named Ibn Malik along the way. As the pursuit was dying down, a tall, one�eyed, unnamed Bedouin entered the cave, driving some sheep. Umayyah and the Bedouin introduced each other. After they settled down, the shepherd sang a simple two�line song in defiance of Muslims and Islam.

Unfortunately for this Bedouin, he was in the cave with a radical Muslim, who said: 'You will soon see!' The Bedouin fell asleep, snoring. Umayyah recounts what he did: . . .  'I went to him and killed him in the most dreadful way that anybody has ever been killed. I leaned over him, stuck the end of my bow into his good eye, and thrust it down until it came out of the back of his neck.' He fled back to Muhammad, who said, 'Well done!' The account ends: The prophet 'prayed for me [Umayyah] to be blessed.' [7]

    (6) After January 630: One singing�girl

After Muhammad conquered Mecca in early AD 630, a conquest that saw some bloodshed of twenty�eight Meccans, he showed amnesty to the newly conquered.  But on the list of those excluded from amnesty was not only Abdullah b. Katal, collector of legal alms, who had killed his slave for incompetence, apostatized from Islam, and took the money back to Mecca. But his two singing�girls who sang satirical verses about Muhammad, which Abdullah had composed, were also excluded from the list. He was killed, even though he was clinging to the curtain of the Kabah shrine. And one of the girls was killed, but the other ran away until she asked for pardon from Muhammad, who forgave her. [8]

    (7) After February 630: close call for Kab bin Zuhayr

Confident with the victory over Mecca, Muhammad returned to Medina a hero and firmly in charge of the southwest of the Arabian Peninsula. In this context Muhammad nearly murdered another poet who satirized Muhammad and Muslims, Kab bin Zuhayr (here called Zuhayr to distinguish him from Kab bin al�Ashraf, above, no. 4). Zuhayr's brother wrote him that Muhammad had killed a number of satirical poets during his conquest of Mecca, but that the Prophet would forgive a poet who came to him in repentance, which really meant becoming a Muslim. His brother told him that the poets who were left had fled in all directions.

    'If you have any use for your life, then come to the apostle quickly, for he does not kill anyone who comes to him in repentance,' wrote the brother, continuing: 'if you do not do that, then get to a safe place.'

Finding no way out, Zuhayr wrote a letter extolling Muhammad. Soon afterwards, he traveled up to Medina to ask for security as a Muslim. Muhammad was saying his morning prayers, and a friend took Zuhayr into Muhammad's presence. 'Would you accept him as such if he came to you?' his friend asked. The Prophet said he would.

As Zuhayr came into the Prophet's presence, one of the Ansars (helpers or native Medinans who helped Muhammad after his Hijrah) leaped upon Zuhayr and asked Muhammad if he could behead the enemy of God, for some of Zuhayr's verses mocked the Ansars, too. The apostle said to leave him alone, for Zuhayr was breaking free from his past. The implication is clear: if Muhammad had caught Zuhayr before his repentance, Muhammad would have allowed him to be beheaded. Either he converts or he dies�for writing derogatory poetry.

What is remarkable about the anecdote is how the morning prayer provides the setting for a Muslim leaping on a poet and threatening to cut his head off, as if this is an ordinary day and act. [9]

Murder of ordinary mockers

Two examples of murder demonstrate that Muhammad did not like mockery even by non�poets. Any ole insulter is vulnerable in original Islam.

    (1) A blind man murders his slave�wife

Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas:

    A blind man had a slave�mother who used to abuse the Prophet . . . and disparage him. He forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet . . .  and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet was informed about it.

    He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling, the man stood up.

    He sat before the Prophet . . .  and said: Apostle of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.

Thereupon the Prophet . . . said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood. [10]

The last line of this hadith shows Muhammad not allowing even blood�wit (compensation for bloodshed) to be paid on her behalf. Apparently, she was worth nothing, even though she bore the blind man two sons.

    (2) An unnamed man strangles an unnamed Jewish woman.

Narrated Ali ibn Abu Talib:

    A Jewess used to abuse the Prophet . . . and disparage him. A man strangled her till she died. The Apostle of Allah . . .  declared that no recompense was payable for her blood. (Abu Dawud)

This hadith communicates that a Jewish woman is worth nothing. In early Islamic sources, Jews too often appear as extra�bad. Who was killed? Who is a murderer? A Jew? That's no big deal. Of course. That's to be expected. So what else is new?

Is it any wonder why so many Muslims who are educated in their source documents hate Jews? How can Muhammad and his sacred texts tell them to stop?

Regardless, in both murder cases, no one was arrested or executed, like�for�like. No one was even scolded. The murderers were let go on the grounds that insulting the Prophet deserves death. The translator of Abu Dawud informs us that all Jews or any non�Muslims who insult the Prophet should also be killed (vol. 3, note 3800).

Muhammad uses a satirical poet

Muhammad is fresh off a victory against a coalition of 10,000 Meccans and their allies in AD 627. After they depart, the last remaining major tribe of Jews, the Qurayza, is left alone, without allies. During Muhammad's twenty�five�day siege of this tribe, which resulted in the slaughter of the men and pubescent boys and the wholesale enslavement of the women and children, he employed a poet to abuse them.

    The Prophet said to Hassan, 'Abuse them (with your poems), and Gabriel is with you (i.e. supports you).' (Through another group of sub�narrators) Al�Bara bin Azib said, 'On the day of Quraiza's (besiege), Allah's Apostle said to Hassan bin Thabit, 'Abuse them (with your poems), and Gabriel is with you (i.e. supports you).'' (Bukhari)

This shows how valued poetry was in seventh�century Arabia. In the absence of mass media, gathering around and listening to poets was an opportunity to persuade, smear, mock, praise, and otherwise influence large numbers. Now that Muhammad has the power, he employed a satirical poet without fear of reprisal. In fact, he refers to the Jews as brothers of monkeys, citing a legend that he believed, namely, that God turned some disobedient Jews into apes.  (see also Ibn Ishaq pp. 461�62).

Conclusion

While it is true that Muhammad forgave a satirical poet and a singing girl (see no. 7 in 'Assassination of satirical poets,' above), he murdered more than he forgave. Omitting the violent episodes in the Prophet's life, the spokespersons for Islam act irresponsibly in their television appearances. Possibly their strategy is to make Islam and its Prophet seem only peaceful and loving, perhaps so that the uninformed may be drawn to this religion or at least not be turned off by it.

However, aggressive Islam is on the march. The riots over the cartoons are only one symptom. The stakes are high. Thus, the peaceful spokespersons' partial presentation of Islam is misleading at best and dangerous at worse. When or if Islam gets a foothold in a region on the basis of 'peace and love,' what happens when the hard line and traditional (not to mention nonviolent and violent fanatics) Muslims come to the region later and impose all sorts of violent laws and policies and practices in the Quran and hadith? Honesty demands full historical and scriptural disclosure, even if it hurts.

Endnotes:

[1] Go here  for more information, and scroll down to no. 3, looking for a critique of Karen Armstrong. The transcript is available by purchase only. Here is a video clip  of the discussion between Foukara, Rose, and others.

[2] Source: Ibn Ishaq, The Life of Muhammad, (trans. A. Guillaume, Oxford UP, 1955, 2004), pp. 136, 163, 181, 262, 308. Reputable historians today consider Ibn Ishaq to be a reliable source of early Islam, though they may disagree on his chronology and miraculous elements.

[3] Ibn Ishaq, p. 306

[4] Bukhari, Spoils of War (online source); Muslim nos. 4421, 4422, and 4424; These are parallels in Bukhari about taunting the dead: here and here.  Ibn Ishaq, pp. 306�08. Muslim is also a reliable collector and editor of the hadith (records of the words and deeds of Muhammad outside of the Quran).

[5] Ibn Ishaq, pp. 675�76.

[6] Bukhari, Military Expeditions (online sources: here; see also the one below); this one  and this one show Muhammad giving permission to his assassin to say anything, i.e. lie; Muslim no. 4436 ; Ibn Ishaq pp. 364�69 ; Tabari, The History of al�Tabari, Vol. 7, (trans. by M.V. McDonald and annotated by W. Montgomery Watt, SUNYP, 1987), pp. 94�98. Reputable historians today consider Tabari to be a reliable source of data on early Islam, though they may not agree on his chronology or miraculous elements.

[7] Tabari, vol. 7, pp. 149�50; A later editor incorporated some of Tabari's account into Ibn Ishaq's biography, pp. 674�75.

[8] Bukhari, Military Expeditions, (Online source) ; Ibn Ishaq, pp. 550�51.

[9] Ibn Ishaq, pp. 597�602. Some Muslim polemicists consider him to be unreliable mostly because he preserves so many traditions that portray Muhammad as violent. But here the prophet is forgiving, so now Ibn Ishaq's reliability cannot be doubted.

[10] Abu Dawud no. 4348  (he is another reliable hadith collector and editor)

Supplementary material

This article contrasts the reactions of Jesus and Muhammad when they were insulted and threatened.

This short analysis  discusses the similarities between assassinations in early Islam and the ones today.

This analysis  examines the many causes of assassinations of journalists and intellectuals in several Islamic countries, notably Algeria, but the analysis fails to go back to the ultimate source: Muhammad himself.

In November 2004, Theo Van Gogh was assassinated by a Muslim because the descendant of the brother of the famous artist had made a film that depicted a Muslim woman who was forced into an arranged marriage, abused by her husband, and raped by her uncle. These two articles examine the assassination of the filmmaker Theo van Gogh in light of the assassinations in early Islam.

James M. A."

This is all from Sahih al-Bukhari and ibn Ishaq.

Quote the Noble Qur'an.

I am a Shia Muslim and do not accept these as fully authentic.

I believe only 3 books are fully authentic:

1. The Noble Qur'an.
2. Nahj al-Balagha
2. Sahifa as-Sajjad.

That should clear up all the lies and fabrications in ibn Ishaq and Sahih al-Bukhari.

Quote from: OneMuslimUmmah on September 25, 2008, 07:09:33 PM

Jesus had no father and was made like Adam.

Did Jesus say He had no father?
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/god_the_father.htm


The bible does not say Jesus was made like Adam:

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

The Bible does say Adam was the son of God:

In Luke 3:38, it is said:

"the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God."

Adam was also the son of God.

And Jesus was called the son of Joseph in Luke 3:25.

Then what makes Jesus so special.

The Qur'an also says the likeness of Jesus is like that of Adam (Surah Ale Imran 3:59)

Do Muslims believe Jesus led a sinless life while here on earth?

Key:

PBUT = Peace be upon them.
PBUH = Peace be upon him.

Yes Jesus (PBUH) did live a sinless life on Earth.

He made mistakes but made did not sins.

It is the same with all the greatest Messengers of God, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David and Mohammad (PBUT).

Learn the position of Jesus in Islam here:

answering-christianity.com/blessed_jesus.htm

Do Muslims believe Jesus led a sinless life while here on earth?

Yes we do believe he did.

He made some mistakes but no sins.