Islam, Muslim / Christian Forum - Welcome All

This is now a moot point for Abu Bakr al-Baghdad in this life since he has gone to meet the One who truly knows the answer.  Those remaining followers or terrorists who still adhere to the doctrine and methods of the Quran expressed by the Islamic State should now consider their own fate and ask themselves if they believe Mr. al-Baghdadi met with a warm welcome (maybe warm is the wrong term to use here) - whether he met with a hero's welcome or judgment and damnation would be the more appropriate question to consider.

The Holy Bible presents God as Love while the Quran claims to represent God by expressing rage, anger, and hatred toward anyone who does not agree and obey the teachings of Allah as handed down to Muhammad.  But Jesus said a tree is known by its fruit.  Judging by the fruit of the tree of Islam, I would not want to stand before the One True God of Creation and have the fruit of a life lived to hate, murder and destroy as my bouquet of flowers to lay at His feet as representative of what my life produced.

No doubt the historical movement we call the Reformation was a direct rebellion to what the Roman church became after Constantine began the Institutionalizing of the Church.  The primary outcome of the Reformation was the Bible being again available to the masses and freeing them to reject Rome as the overseeing agent that controlled its availability to the people.  Of course, as you say there was no need for a Reformation in the purest sense that God dwells in the believer by the Holy Spirit.  It was also a stripping away of religious traditions as in infant baptism, a need for a priestly intercessor other than Christ and many other things.  As for anti-Semitism, that always depended upon how Church Authorities interpreted Pauls writings and their definition of the Abrahamic Covenants.  Even after the Reformation that has been a sustained feud, primarily among the Calvinists and those who adhere to Replacement Theology where the Church is now Israel. I have a feeling Abraham would have an argument with those folks if he were here.

But I agree totally that there is no way to reform Islam except to leave it.  Muhammad is just one of those who came along and fulfilled the words of Christ about the many false prophets who would come.  Saying 'Allah is God and Muhammad is his prophet' has no more real eternal value than following Elvis Presley.  What would it be reformed to?  A book of stolen prophecies and visions given in a cave by demons to a deranged religious zealot? Saying "There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet" has no more redeeming value than to say Elvis is God and the Jukebox is his prophet.

Considering the idea of Muslim Reform is similar to the idea they used to have of rehabilitating criminals in the penal system other than seeing punishment as the key purpose of sentencing someone to do time in the penitentiary.  To Rehabilitate means "to restore as to one's former estate."  This is also similar to the definition of the word radical which means 'Root'.  Either one would be a bad thing when it comes to the idea of a Muslim Reformation.  The root of Islam is a corrupt and evil distortion of Biblical Revelation and the original practice of Islam was, in essence, the same thing that is considered Radical Islam today.  Who wants either one of those things?

Only in the sense that all things are ruled by God.  If you mean are they ruled by God in the sense of: "Are they Sent by God to do His work?"  there are two primary questions that need to be answered first:

1. Who is God?  If Allah is 'God' the Creator of all things then the answer to your question is 'Yes'.   If the God of the Bible is the Creator of all things the answer is 'No'.
   
2. Does the Quran represent the teaching of God?   Only if Allah is 'God' the Creator of all things.   However, if the God of the Bible is the Creator of all things the answer is 'No'.

If the answer to either of these questions is 'No' than we can assume that Allah may in fact be 'the god of this world' (Isaiah 14:12-14  &  2 Corinthians 4:4) , also known as Satan, the Adversary who opposes all things.  Look at the actions of Abu Bakr and Islamic State.  They oppose all things; they hate the Jews and all followers of the God of the Bible; they hate everything and everyone and everything that disagrees with the teachings of the false prophet Muhammad.  If the concept of Religion is to be understood as a specific deity (or deities) being worshiped, served and obeyed by followers, we can see in the actions and statements of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and Islamic State a clear indication of where they come from and who they obey.

Having known the administrator and moderator of this site since before it's inception I can truthfully say that the author of the email criticism this is in response to has totally misunderstood the purpose of of Brother Pete as well as the purpose of Islam.  While Brother Pete's purpose is to shed light on the darkness, the critics email has the effect of dismissing it altogether.  In truth, the darkness of Islam is nothing more the absence of light. It has no actual content of it's own but instead is nothing more than the echo of the source of spiritual darkness himself, Satan.  Brother Pete is simply offering the Apostle Johns prescription for such darkness: "And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."  John 1:5   Brother Pete is called to shine the Light on the darkness of Islam for those who desire light but are looking in the wrong places.  Islam is certainly darkness and Christians need not fear it, but they must never endorse it in any way.  Light and darkness cannot dwell in the same place.  When the light appears the darkness disappears.  I highly suggest the writer of the critical email spend more time in the light rather than to waste any time defending darkness.  One who truly receives the Light of Life will know the darkness when he sees it.

Naw . . . there's no poison in Zamzam. Drink all you want Achmed. Here . . . have some more. You can't believe what those infidels say.

Muslims believe in Jesus the same way that most agnostics or atheists do. They admit to the existence of the man Jesus Christ but deny any Spiritual connection to Eternal life or to a Creator God. Muslims must admit to a belief in Jesus because Muhammad referred to both he and his followers and they believe everything that came out of the mouth of the false prophet Muhammad. But believing in Jesus' existence has no spiritual value without accepting the offer that attended his visitation to earth: "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me"  (John 10:27) and  "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:'  (John 11:25).

Everyone that saw Jesus when he was on the earth believed in him as a living entity. But that in itself brought no eternal value. In fact it brought eventual condemnation to those who heard his word and did not respond properly. "For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them". (2Pe 2:21)

Believing in Jesus' existence without following Him in The Way is not beneficial but detrimental to ones potential for eternal life .

Islam is the antithesis of what all Truth stands for. It is also the antithesis of Freedom and the enemy of all those who love freedom and cherish the same for their fellow man. Islam is the enemy of all good and all things holy, kind, beautiful and benevolent. Allah is not worthy to be worshiped and one day all will see him bow down before the True King of Kings and Lord of Lords  - Jesus Christ - and be cast into the Lake of Fire with all of his devotees and followers. Only ignorant evil men would follow such an obviously evil system and they have from the beginning of Muhammad's proclamation of this false religion and false god and himself being the false prophet of the Bible in Revelation chapters 16, 19 and 20. We recognize the true origin of Islam by identifying the same traits that were in the great deceiver Satan from the beginning. Through Islam he continues to be a murderer and a liar and the father of lies. (John 8:44) Through Islam he runs to and fro seeking whom he may devour. (1 Peter 5:8) Islam hates all things good. Islam hates women, children and men. Islam hates God. It even hates itself and turns on it's own when it runs out of enemies to hate. This is truly the work of the enemy of God and man.

America must wake up and throw this enemy out and crush Islam under foot wherever it shows it's evil head.

What a shock! Are you trying to say that Muslim men would take advantage of such a loophole as Misyar Marriage. It reminds me of something an airline stewardess who flew regularly to Arab Countries once told me. She said they may have a lot of rules on the ground but once the plane took off it was hard to keep them from hitting on the stewardesses or even grabbing them in the 'derriere'. Sounds to me like the lawyers who write the disclaimers for car dealerships and other questionable loophole practices could learn a lot from Islamic Law. I can just see it now. Muslim Cleric at the wedding-"Do you promise to love and cherish this woman until death do you part?"  "Of course I do. Especially since I control her life and death that's an easy one." Small Print Disclaimer- Husband not responsible for death if she leaves the house without my permission; death is she gets raped by a friend or anyone (or me) and there are not four witnesses willing to testify against the man; Death if she gets seen outside without proper head-covering; death if she tries to disobey me in any way; death is she tries to take my children and leave the country after she discovers that I have had several Misyar Marriages already; death is she dishonors me in any way; death is I become suspicious that she is dishonoring me in any way; death if she doesn't like the marriage arrangement and wants to leave me (even though I am 50 years older than her) . . . other than that  (and anything else that I can come up with if I need to) "I do!"

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 1Jn 4:18  
What a perfect day to start this topic on the eve of Mother's day here in America. When I picture Mary, the mother of Jesus, standing beneath the Cross where her precious Son hung in agony to pay the price for the sin of mankind, I cannot but be reminded of the pain that comes with such great love. Her yielding to the will of God at the announcement of her holy calling saying, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. (Luke 1:38) brings to mind the moment, then yet to come, when the great pain of that commitment would wrench her heart as she stood before her dying Son. Her innocent Son called to be the sacrificial Lamb of God and pay the price for all men.

Isaiah the Prophet wrote, Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. Isaiah 53:4-5 He who had Himself created all things (John 1:3 ; Colossians 1:16) was now being crucified and rejected by those whom He came to save.

The Lamb [of God] slain from the foundation of the world. (Rev. 13:8) By God's great love for us He gave His own Son to die to reconcile the world unto Himself. (2 Cor. 5:19) In light of these things I ask this: "How much does God love you? As much as He loves His Son because that was the price he paid for your redemption.

So receive this perfect love that God has given for you and it will cast fear out of your life and give you Peace with God. (Romans 5:1) To view God through His love is what He intended for all of us. Not to see him through the window of anger, hate and revenge. God is love. That love is expressed in the greatest act of sacrifice: the death of His Son on your behalf. But you must come to Him or you will not know this love that has been poured out for you. (John 14:6) Only through Christ can the atonement for sin be made.

It is not enough just to ask God to forgive you and to stop doing the act for which you seek forgiveness. You must accept His Atonement, Jesus Christ, as the offering to be made. We are made acceptable to God through Christ and there is no other way. (Ephesians 1:6) Just as he covered the sins of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden by shedding of blood, so has He done this for all of us who will come, by the shedding of the Holy Blood of His Son Jesus Christ.

Understanding the Trinity and the virgin birth is not a requirement for believing in the Son of God. Who could understand a God who can create such a universe as ours? God never said "understand me" He said believe! (John 6:29) When we look at the creation we cannot understand how it came to be but we can see in it the nature of our Creator. (Romans 1:19,20) Hebrews 11:3 says, "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which were seen were not made of things which do appear".  The Bible not only presents Jesus as the Only begotten Son but also as in fact the Creator who made all things. (Colossians 1:13-17 and as the Word (Logos) in John 1:3). And as Paul writes in Colossians 2:9, "In him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily". One cannot begin to fathom the Trinity without first believing in the Son of God.

As Peter commented in this forum, Psalm 2:7 is a Messianic revelation and David was speaking prophetically of the coming Messiah Jesus. This is the heartbeat of prophecy: God revealing future events through the prophet. The Psalms are full of Messianic Prophecies that have been fulfilled as is the entire Old Testament and much of the New Testament we see being fulfilled now in this present time. Even the role of Islam has been predicted and is being fulfilled as the Old Testament Prophets wrote that it would. We see no such prophetic clarity in the Qur'an or the teachings of Mohammed. We see teachings, and many are teachings that have been altered to meet the next need of promoting the agenda of Islam. We see a religion that demands blindness and blind obedience. Anyone who opens their eyes to what the Qur'an offers to those who obey it would not see a God of love and hope but only one of cruelty. destruction and anger; confusion, inconsistency and malignity. It is the writings of one who needs to control others in order to hold power. As do those who sit in the places of leadership as teachers of the Qur'an today. If they cannot answer they just demand blind obedience. To disobey is to be punished.

The True God has no such need as He is already in control of all things and all things unfold just a He said they would. Because God is love He has no fear. (1 John 4:18) It is only the free will of man that goes awry which God has ordained and put in place in order to separate those who wish to dwell eternally with Him in love to reveal that desire through obedience to His will. We know that the Truth of God is revealed in His Word, His Son and also it is written in the tablets of the heart of every man. Disobedience is a choice.

God has no obligation to reveal Himself to the fallen creature but He has chosen to do so through His Son Jesus and through His Book, the Bible. I challenge anyone to go to God in the name of Jesus and humble yourself and with an open and sincere heart seek the truth about who God is and who Jesus is and He will reveal the Truth to that person. If you do so and ask the Son of God to come into your life through the Holy Spirit you will know the reality of God's Son, His Holy Spirit and the Father. Then when you pass through this life and eventually stand before God you can ask Jesus yourself if His mother was a virgin.

I guess for me it is a matter of who you are aiming to reach. I agree that in this Forum as well as mid-east specific it would have a likely advantage of being more effective toward Muslims and also possibly to any Jewish persons on the site. For reaching the Western world this type of information always causes me to think about the 'common man' and how he would view such changes to familiar terminologies. Would this cause the uneducated man - who rarely has access to the lesser known materials available from extra biblical resources and/or deeper language studies - to feel a bit hesitant or inferior when attempting to evaluate or assimilate these ideas? I have always rejoiced in the fact that God did not leave His Church in the hands of scholars.

The reality of Islam is based upon such whimsical fiction that it cannot be supported intelligently or even humanely therefore it must be forced through brutality and propagated through lies. Just as Hitler riled up the masses by making the Jewish people out to be the enemies of all righteousness and morality so Islam uses it's hatred of Israel to bring to a fever pitch the emotions of the masses who are told that their suffering and sorrow is the fault of the Jews. Just as God chose Abel over Cain, He chose Isaac over Ishmael and Jacob over Esau. Why? For his own purpose. Because of this the false prophet Mohammed lays claim to the rights of the Ishmael/Esau inheritance and substitutes them in the place of those who received the blessing from God. (Although there is no doubt that Mohammed did not come from the line of Ishmael). It is no wonder that the true muslims hate and revile all goodness. They borrowed the anger of many generations and added it to their own.

The devil always over plays his hand. He can't help it because he is the epitome of arrogance and self centeredness. This is why he is blinded to what really is happening through this effort. Like Hitler and Japan in World War II this event will,I believe, awaken a Sleeping Giant. The biggest event that sparked the massive missionary movement of the 1950's was when several missionaries were killed in Ecuador by native Auca Indians. I believe we will see an awakening of a similar magnitude as Islam continues to arrogantly shove it's lies in the face of the American people. It's not the mosque that befuddles me. It just shows how stupid and weak they think we are. What is really amazing is the Politicians supporting this effort that prove how weak and stupid THEY really are.

What we fail to understand in the West is that these radicals are 'the real muslims'. They do what the Qur'an teaches. It is a book of death, darkness and legalism. If God were like allah He would be mean and cruel and unjust and harsh. The True God of the Bible is able to love us because He has no fear of ever losing his place as God.  (I John 4:18)
Nothing can take away what He alone possesses: All Authority and Power. He is the only Uncreated One and He can never be defeated by the created. In sharp contrast allah is in fact a servant of the anti-God who was cast out of heaven for attempting to overthrow God. Isaiah rightly calls him the "king of babylon" therefore we should not be surprised that he hasn't wandered that far from his lower homeland to gather his vast hord of followers.

This is nothing more than the methodology used also by those who opposed Paul during his day. They were unable to understand his enlightened mind because they relied only upon their training and he had been with Christ to receive the revelations he brought to us through the epistles he wrote. He was not defending himself or his arguments. A man with experience is never at the mercy of those with just an argument. He had met the living God on the road to Damascus and worked from the premise of having once been blind (previously in the camp of those who now stood against him) but now seeing very clearly.

This is a complete misunderstanding of the text. One must look at the parenthesis portion of verse 5 where Paul says (I speak as a man). He is showing the nature of the carnal man to justify even such things as sinning so that God can be glorified in His ability to even use mans sins to show the glory and power of His grace. This is of course an absurd notion that Paul is exposing in order to to show the actual case: that none are righteous and that it is only through God's mercy and grace that anyone can be made acceptable to God. Paul is in no way saying that Christians can reveal God's glory by lying. And of course in Ephesians 1:6-7 Paul reveals the ultimate solution (He made us acceptable IN THE BELOVED-Jesus) and how? "In Him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace" (vv7)

Herein lies a clear difference between the Eternal True God and Allah. Being without beginning and without end there is no need to substitute to cover up for the weaknesses or lack in previous Revelation. It is true that God do can do anything . . . that is anything but be wrong. Speaking of that Jesus never once said, I'm sorry. Why, He never made a mistake (being the Eternal Son of the True and Living God).