Islam, Muslim / Christian Forum - Welcome All

Clear proof that Islam holds woman higher than Christianity:

http://www.themodernreligion.com/women/w_comparison_full.htm

And as for the woman with her nose cut off, the Taliban condemned that act, and meanwhile Christian US bombs rip women and children to shreds in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and previously in Iraq.

And let us not forget the US soldiers who raped and killed the teenage Iraqi girl, dragged her family out of their house and slaughtered them.
Hardly mentioned in the US media.

There is clearly an attempt to distort Islam and create hatred against Islam and spread ignorance about Islam whereas in reality, Islam holds women much higher and better.

It appears to me that the parable was quite finished when Jesus stated to bring his enemies before him and to slay them.
The parable ended in Luke 19:25.
During the parable, there were many statements such as "and he said  .. ." which indicate that it is part of the parable.
And then in 19:26 Jesus says, "And I say unto you . . . " Now Jesus is talking to the audience. The parable is over.
So, when Jesus commands to bring forth his enemies and slay them, that is no longer part of the parable, but a command of Jesus himself.


St. John Chrysostom of Antioch who lived some 400 AD stated, “I know that many people hold a high regard for the Jews and consider their way of life worthy of respect at the present time... This is why I am hurrying to pull up this fatal notion by the roots ... A place where a whore stands on display is a whorehouse. What is more, the synagogue is not only a whorehouse and a theater; it is also a den of thieves and a haunt of wild animals ... not the cave of a wild animal merely, but of an unclean wild animal ... When animals are unfit for work, they are marked for slaughter, and this is the very thing which the Jews have experienced. By making themselves unfit for work, they have become ready for slaughter. This is why Christ said: “as for my enemies, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them and slay them before me’ (Luke 19.27).”
http://www.christianity-revealed.com/cr/files/antisemitisminthenewtestament_1.html

So, even early Christians hold that verse to be, not a part of the parable, but a command from Jesus himself (and apparently one that references the Jews).


As far as Jesus never "or recommending using a sword against anyone"
Actually, he tells his disciples who do not have swords to sell their garments and buy swords.
This was clearly not a spiritual sword since it involves actual purchasing with money.
And it was only when Jesus realized that they were outnumbered in the garden of Gethsemene that he told Peter, "Those who live by the sword, die by the sword."

You say, "You paint Jesus Christ and the God of the bible as evil. "
Well, that is because the Bible is the word of God then altered by man, and so no longer the real word of God, and the Jesus of the Bible is not the real Jesus who was  but a slave of God and a prophet.


The oldest known fragment of the New Testament is from the first half of the 2nd century.
"This photo shows a papyrus fragment from the Gospel of John, discovered in Egypt, the oldest known fragment from any part of the New Testament, dated from the first half of the 2nd century C.E."
http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible2.htm

"Muslims overturned thousands of cars because an artist drew a cartoon of Mohammed. "
Christians in Afghanistan put Bible verses on their rifle scopes.
Bush said that God told him to invade Iraq. How many hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have died from that? (see the Lancet report).
General Boykin said that he fought in the name of Jesus.
Christians bomb abortion clinics.

"That's why Islam is an imperialistic blood thirsty cult, ever since Mohammed plundered his first caravan."
The caravan was holding property stolen from the Muslims, and the caravan was manned by pagans who had persecuted Muslims, tortured them, murdered them, attempted to murder Muhammad, and were already at war against the Muslims. The idea that Islam is "blood thirst" or imperialistic is just old fashioned ignorant Islam bashing.

"I don't misunderstand Islam. It is the OPPOSITE of Christianity."
Actually, you misunderstand Islam greatly, and Islam is merely the continuation of real Christianity and Judaism.

"Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them"
Actually, that evinces that you do misunderstand Islam since that verse was revealed in the historical context of a war that Muslims were already engaged in, and refers specifically to those unbelievers who have initiated war against the Muslims.

"Hadith: Jews will hide behind the rock and tree, and the rock and tree will say: oh servant of Allah, oh Muslim, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!"
This is further evidence that you don't understand Islam. That hadith is a reference to end times when Jews have retaken Palestine and are being led by the Dajjal (similar to the anti-Christ). It is referring to those Jews specifically that were aligned with the Dajjal.

"That's what made the Islamic Mufti of Jerusalem the perfect compliment to Hitler."
Palestine was being overrun by European Jews who had the intent of ridding Palestine of Palestinians. The Nazis were sending thousands of Jews to Palestine and the mufti (a great man) went to Hitler to ask him to stop.
By the way, Hitler was a Christian.
Meanwhile, Christians like Anne Coulter call for invading Muslim lands and forcing Muslims to convert to Christianity.

"My friend, it is you that doesn't understand Islam"
No Pete, it is you who understands neither Islam or the true Jesus or the true God Almighty.

"Christians don't believe that God had sexual relations with Mary. "
Begetting means to sire, which means to have sex.

"for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost."
For the Holy Ghost to "conceive" into Mary is for the Holy Ghost to have sex with her. And since you believe that the Holy Ghost is part of God, then you blaspheme against God with this unholy accusation of God having sex.

And is Jesus the only Begotten son of God according to the Bible?
Psalms 2:7
"I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. "
And that is not David talking about Jesus, that is David talking about himself, "said unto me," with David speaking.

And if you insist that the verse is talking about Jesus, though from the context it is clearly not, then you have later in the verse:
'You shall break them with a rod of iron,
You shall shatter them like earthenware.'"
Which would mean that Jesus will "break them with a rod of iron, etc"

But the verse does refer to David, and so Jesus is not the only begotten according to the Bible.

"The Quran wasn't written until hundreds of years after Mohammed's death."
No, history records that it was written while Muhammad was alive and had time to make sure of its authenticity.

"It was also collected up, and various copies burned, on two separate occassions:"
That is so that no one could rightly accuse it of corruption. Since no official version had been made, the Caliphs destroyed all copies that were unofficial (put to scrutiny), and not because anything was found lacking in them. They merely were not officially sanctioned.

"That's why it needs a rule of abrogation."
Abrogation was merely to reveal God's word gradually such as gradual restrictions on alcohol. And the later verses did not contradict the previous ones. For example, the later command of never drinking does not contradict the command to not drink before praying since when you never drink, you also don't drink before praying.

"No, it comes from the Word of God:"
No, the idea of a god having a son with a mortal woman is very common in pagan myths, as is the trinity also common in paganism.

"Mohammedans are stuck trying to justify the reprobate behavior of their 7th century false prophet, by going back 1200 years in the history of mankind to find anything even close."
What "reprobate" behavior? Never in history has one been found who was so merciful, compassionate, honest, kind, generous, and excellent in all manners. You sound like those Jews who tried to demonize Jesus and other prophets.
And the reason Muslims point out the violent verses of the Bible is to show the hypocrisy of the Christians, and to reveal the truly misled religion, the one that attempts to set equals and partners to God.

"The Father and Son are ONE: "
Ok, they are in the same mission. Whoever plucks someone out of Jesus hand has plucked them from the fathers hand. Read it in context. It does not mean that Jesus is God.

"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."
God glorifies many. That does not make them God. And just because Jesus existed before the world does not make him God. The angels also existed before the world.
And "with thee" clearly it is talking about two distinct beings.

"Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them."
Ok, people get to God through Jesus. That doesn't make Jesus God. In fact, that shows them to be two seperate beings.

So, you still haven't shown where Jesus says the words, "I am God."

"And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission."
Well, that contradicts the old testament verses which have repentance through grain when no animal sacrifice is present.

And according to the New Testament, good deeds are required:

"Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 7:21.

"And behold one came and said to him: Good master, what good shall I do that I may have life everlasting? Who said to him: Why asketh thou me concerning good? One is good, God. But if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." Matthew 19:16-17.

"But Peter said to them: Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Oh look, that doesn't require blood.

""And God indeed having winked at the times of this ignorance, now declareth unto men, that all should every where do penance."
No need for blood there. Penance is required, not blood.

"Confess therefore your sins one to another: and pray one for another, that you may be saved. For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much." James 5:16.
Yep, no blood there.

And oh yes, James does mention that faith without good deeds is dead.

Hmmmm, looks like some contradictions in the Bible there.

"Behold, the man is become as one of us"
Wait! To know good from evil is to become Godlike? That's ignorance to the extreme. How low do Christians think God is such that merely knowing good from evil makes one like God?

"And God said, Let us make man in our image"
"us" is a plural of majesty.
You think that God has an image? Your Bible says that God has an image? God is far transcendent beyond mere images. What ignorance this Bible is!

"after our likeness: "
You think that humans are "like" God? How very primitive! God is unique and perfect.

"for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world."
So what? That doesn't make Jesus God. It just means that he was around before the world. And if God loves Jesus, then they are two separate beings.

"but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself."
God doesn't accept human sacrifice.

Who died on the cross? Was it a man or a god?
If it was God, then God cannot die. He is indestructible.  If he was a man, then human sacrifice is forbidden.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,"
Of course, God said, "Be!" and Jesus existed. Jesus came into existence through the command (the Word) of God. Muslims already know that. Big Deal.
God created everything with a command word. Adam was created by God's command: "Be" and Adam was. The universe was created by God's word. The command was with God in the beginning. God commanded Jesus to come into existence, and then put flesh on him.

""...shall be called the Son of God."
Many were called the Son of God. So what? That's not a big deal. It is used so frequently that it is clearly just a figure of speech.

"But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking."
It is not vain when you pay attention to what you pray. And when God has commanded that prayer, of course it is heard.

"You realize now that Mohammedanism is a stand-alone religion. That it is the opposite of the revelation of God through His Word."
Actually, it is becoming even more clear that Christianity is a distortion of Jesus' true teachings with all of the Bible's many contradictions and Christianities pagan like beliefs. No, Islam is clearly the true revelation of God, though you, Pete, may hate the truth.

"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him]."
People saw Jesus, so clearly Jesus is not God according to your own pseudo-scriptures.

"Mohammed was illiterate so how could he have understood except through ill advice? "
But when he debated with the Jews, he knew their scripture better than them. That is recorded hadith. That was one of Muhammad's miracles and proof of divine guidance from God Almighty.

"Worse than that filth, he caused you to deny Jesus shed blood, that would save you"
Muhammad was only conveying God's word. Too bad you don't like God's true word, and instead prefer the distortions of misled humans.

"Christians don't convert to Islam."
I've seen quite a few. They were very devout and knowledgeable Christians too.

Ok, that's enough debunking of falsehood for tonight.