Islam, Muslim / Christian Forum - Welcome All

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Quote from: naliakbar on June 23, 2008, 04:16:29 PM

QuoteNo. It's about Mohammed's good/bad scale. That's why they murder innocent Jews to get their rivers of wine and resealable virgins in heaven.

Who are you fooling man, first of I want to make sure there is a defination here, zionist compared to jews, and the attacks on the zionist state is not all innocent, and you compare the innocent of the zionist state numbers to the innocent of the palenstinian state,

Before I finish up, who was the leader of your so-called Palestinian "state" before Yassar Arafat in 1967?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciUb9wSkbnE

the power of the internet you have to love it...

QuoteThe Territory known today as Occupied Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire Federal State of the Levant or Bilad Al Sham.

At the end of WWI, the war's victors occupied this region and divided it in 1919 in a famous treaty called the Sikes-Picot Treaty. They Divided the Ottoman Federal State of the Levant into 4 Separate Regions which they called Syria, Lebanon, Palestine and Trans-Jordan (Present Day Jordan).

During the period between 1919 and 1948, those sectors were ruthlessly occupied by the British and French armies and anyone who resisted was tortured and brutally killed.

the rest of this can be viewed on  http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=1006031806611

so in short to your answer the Ottoman empire ruled palestine before the zionist state of israel was created.

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Quote from: naliakbar on June 23, 2008, 04:16:29 PM

QuoteIs genocide of God?

Again what was the question we started of with, why are you deflecting the question?  The question is not what activity was christian or not, but if a person is christian or not how can you as a christian say they are not.

It's the bible that measures them:
Mark 12:30  And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment.  31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

I know I am speaking english, I really don't know in what language both of you understand what I am saying... I don't care what a person would be judged by, I care about what gives YOU the ability to say they are christian or not, when did god give you that power, because everything in that verse you qouted I can show you hitler or the likes of him meets it.
He believed and loved one god (actually 3 god's but that you would argue to me is 1)
In his soul and mind he followed this one god (again I say 3 but you would argue 1)
And he loved his neighbor this is why he barbequed some jews to protect his neighbor.

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Quote from: naliakbar on June 23, 2008, 04:16:29 PMBut you ask is genocide of god, well lets see what your bible has to say about genocide and then you tell me if it is from god.

Deuteronomy 20:16-17
16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy [a] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the LORD your God has commanded you. 18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God.

It sounds to me that God of the bible is a promoter of Genocide what do you think?

It is comical that you use the very book that your false prophet lays claim to, against God.

Even more comically you have to go back 3500 years to the beginnings of mankind to justify the reprobate behavior of your 7th century false prophet.

And as long as you ignore the new covenant you will be riding to perdition on the back of your false prophet.

No what is comical is that your own book says things that you don't agree with, and you still believe it to be the works of god.  I don't believe in the bible, but you do, and my reason for showing you what your bible says is simply to show how much of a double standard you have in talking.  We never said muhammad was like jesus(muhammad had a mother and father, jesus had only a mother), we do say he was like moses and from your own records you find that they are very much the same, yet you don't believe in your own book so ofcourse you have issues with islam.

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Quote from: naliakbar on June 23, 2008, 04:16:29 PM

QuoteAre you trying to say that Sunniis and Shiites don't consider each other apostates?

You are catching on, that is absolutely correct.  And now I want to make sure you don't come with the crap about some sect of sunni or shia that started teaching about another prophet or something like that because they are apostates.

Well it's interesting that Sunnis and Shiites murder each other's innocent men, women and children over what ever difference they have. What a peaceful world it would be if ruled by these two antichrist factions. A whole world like Iraq.

What do they murder each other for? Not religion but LAND!!!! And ofcourse the land has nothing to do with islam, the only sacred grounds for muslims is Mecca and Medina, and both sunni and shia meet up in these places for Hajj, so again that is direct proof there is no fight for theology but rather LAND.

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Quote from: naliakbar on June 23, 2008, 04:16:29 PM

QuoteUnequivocally. Nor the black hearted popes that murdered millions of Christians.

Which comes back to the original question, did god give you the authority to know that a person is a christian or not?  And how do you know the heart of the pope was black?  You say because they murdered millions of Christian, it amazes me how you know your history but deny that the chruch changed your teachings.

The papal murder of christians and the Crusades happened during the Christian era. There have been no changes.
That's why Mohammed and his anti-religion religion is such a tragedy.

Really who finalized your bible to determine the scriptures that should be used? The last time I heard it was the "chruch fathers" and who were they? They were the early Roman Catholics.

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Quote from: naliakbar on June 23, 2008, 04:16:29 PM

QuoteGenocide isn't a matter of equivocation. Those I can understand your confusion with the middle eastern Islamic countries sworn to genocide of the Jews.

I forgive your ignorance, Muslims DON'T HATE JEWS,

Don't be silly. This hadith was written long before the restoration of the Jews to their land.
Hadith: Jews will hide behind the rock and tree, and the rock and tree will say: oh servant of Allah, oh Muslim, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!.

Why don't you give the reader your source so they can go and read it themselves? So that they will see that this was specific about a time when the muslims will be fighting the Dajjal (antichrist) and his jewish army.

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Quote from: naliakbar on June 23, 2008, 04:16:29 PMwe hate ZIONISTS, and yeah I know you will bring up that Isreal was promised to the jews so lets address that before you waste another day in my life.  Our brother love to qoute the verse from the bible so lets go there:

GENESIS 17:7-9
7 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. 8 The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God."
9 Then God said to Abraham, "As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come.
You can also read: GENESIS 13:15, EXODUS 32:13
NOW, if you read this the way that I read it as stating that the DECENDANTS OF ABRAHAM and NOT the decendants of Judah, then you must admit that this prophecy is fulfilled with the ARABS living in this place.  The Arabs trace their lineage to Ishmile the SON of ABRAHAM.  So like I said muslims hate the zionists not jews.

Indeed, Ishmael was a problem even from the womb.
The promise is BETWEEN God and Isaac, not Ismael.
Muslims have kept NONE of the covenants. Never followed the law. No circumcision, etc. disqualified on so many counts it's ridiculous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LUUrSuRquo

But you continue not to explain how Zionism is responsible for 2 million dead in the Sudan. It is the evil of Islam and the seed of Ishmael.

Really tell me what covenant did muslims not keep that christians keep?  You talk about circumcision, all muslim men are circumsized, infact just recently one of my friends had his circumcision, your friend pete talks about ahmed deedat, im sure he can point you to the vidoe where he talks about having it done at the age of 8, but tell me do all christians get circumcised? Last time I checked you believe in the heart getting circumsized and NOT the circumcision that god commanded Abraham and his children.  You say we never followed the law, please share which one, and also for each one you list show that christianity follows it.

As for Sudan, that is a country with a ethnic and tribal issue not a religious one.  It amazes me that when we talk about hitler we can diferenterate that he is not christianity, yet you cannot give the same outlook on some muslim that is doing exactly what hitler did.  It is sad that you cant even see how much of a double standard you have for life.

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Quote from: naliakbar on June 23, 2008, 04:16:29 PM

QuoteYour prophet IS false. At every turn. You are making the mistake of judging your false prophet against George Bush. You need to measure him against God's Holy Word and Jesus Christ. You can start here:

So you want to measure prophethood, well no problem, First of I don't believe Muhammad (saw) to be god, so that being the case, I cant compare him to your god.  So lets compare him to a prophet we can both agree on, MOSES.

I am saved by the blood of Jesus Christ. The Old Testament covenants were for the Jews and the law.
I am a Gentile. The only path to salvation for a Gentile is under the new covenant through Jesus Christ.
You deny the blood of Jesus Christ.
That is the only issue that matters in the entirety of this forum.
Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

I do not believe that any man is better than any other man.  If god created us unequal well then we will have to take that up with god.  If you are a believer as I believe you will believe that ALL mankind came from Adam and Eve.  If you believe that then you must know that all men are equal.  Yes god choose the Jews over all Nations to spread his word, but they disobeyed God and jesus mentions that in your book that they preverted the religion of god.  As for what this forum is about, if you are here to convert me, then there is a big problem, because I am not here to convert you but to explain to you what we believe.  So if your attempt is to force you belief on me, then you are talking to the wrong person, god gave me a mind to think, and my mind tells me that an honest person would not blame others for his mistakes, and that being the case, when I talk to the judge I should be honest about my wrong doings, and it is up to the judge on how to punish or pardon me.  And that I believe is the same with god, if mankind can forgive each other, are you telling me god created us better than himself that is rediclious.

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Quote from: naliakbar on June 23, 2008, 04:16:29 PM
Moses fought wars and killed people and took virgins for himself and his men, Muhammad did similar, he didn't kill children except those accidentally killed on the battle field.
Moses brought his people a book, Muhammad(saw) did as well
Moese fled with his people from one place to another, Sdo did Muhammad(Saw)
Moses was raised in a household outside of his parents home, so was Muhammad(saw)
Moses was a part of the ruling family, so was Muhammad(SAW)
Moses had multiple wives, so did Muhammad(saw)
SO when I compare my prophet with a prophet we can both agree is a prophet they match up identically.  But then I guess you reject the teaching and prophethood of moses because he was not a christians?  And if you accept that this is fact then I ask you to open your bible to
Deuteronomy 18:18
18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.
And every muslim will tell you that the Quran was an oral revelation that was given to mankind, and everything that was told to him he commanded to us.  That is from your bible a book you claim you believe in, yet you reject what even your bible teaches you?

The evil of Islam around the world today makes a mockery of your preposterous presumption.

Not all the people that claim to be Jews follow the exact teachings of Moses, should I blame moses?  Come on how stupid is that?  Lets talk about the source, that is where the issue is so proove to me that muhammad(saW) is not a prophet like moses(saw) that would be refuting my presumption, not this bs about what is happening now, just like the jews people divated from the truth of islam the teachings of our prophet tells us this will happen so who the hell cares what those that don't follow the religion are doing I care about the person who teachs me the religion and that is Muhammad(saw)

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Quote from: naliakbar on June 23, 2008, 04:16:29 PM

QuoteIt's not about my mind. If a person truly repents on his death bed, he will be saved. I think even Catholics who are into the Islamic style "works" bit would agree (though I can't answer for them).

We have a different defination of repentance, I know from the story of Pharao when he was drowning he finally accepted that moses was telling the truth about god but it was too late for him.  That is the closest you can get to death bed repentance, that is recorded for both of us to look at and contemplate on.  So tell me what is this defination of repentance in your mind?  For me it is to change your ways, and to get onto the path of truth.  Now does that mean a person in the hospital cannot repent no I am not saying that.  For me death bed is when you are literally minuites from dying, if you are in bed a month before you die that to me is not death bed, because you were preparing to die there.

One can be saved by the shed blood of Jesus Christ even moments from death. And be spared the second death.

You are not talking about repentance man you are talking about belief.  That is NOT repentance.  Also what I find intersting that most christians fail to tell the rest of the crazy people like myself, is that on the day of judgement according to your belief if god the father decided that jesus should not be your sin payer, then you are basically screwed, so you HAVE to depend on the mercy of the Father, and that being the case, if you still have to depend on the mercy of the father to grant you this "get into heaven free" card then why do you need the blood of jesus?  That shows how illogical this belief is. 

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Quote from: naliakbar on June 23, 2008, 04:16:29 PM

QuoteOf course you don't. Your god measures on a good/bad scale. Once one is bad enough, the only way he can get a ticket to heaven is by blowing himself up in a bus load of Jewish school children. That's the prime motivator of homicide bombers.

You are right and I just explained again to you why I don't believe in death bed repentance.  As for the measure of good/bad, yes I believe that for every atom's weight of good a person does and for every atom weight of bad they do they will be rewarded for it on the day of judgement.

Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

You are kidding right?  I know you are not trying to insinuate that this is what god says... this is a prayer of a prophet who is saying to god basically to forgive us  or we would be doom, it is not a doctrine that this is what our deeds are. 

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Quote from: naliakbar on June 23, 2008, 04:16:29 PMAs for suicide

Quit deflecting. Call it homicide. Whether the murder in the Sudan and around the world, or whether a guy happens to blow himself up in the process.
Your false prophet's phony book is a mass of confusion. That's why Islam comes down to the most murderous common denominator/dominator.

Deflecting?  Friend both of you have deflected the first basic question I asked, that I had to restate the question again.  And you tell me I am deflecting... come on I was born but not yesterday.  And I already explained to you and you are more than welcome to search the internet and you will find on non religious websites that it states exactly what I said about sudan, it is about ethnic cleansing not religion.

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Quote from: naliakbar on June 23, 2008, 04:16:29 PMthe quran is clear about this not being something that a person should do:

Quran 4:29-30
004.029
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Eat not up your property among yourselves in vanities: But let there be amongst you Traffic and trade by mutual good-will: Nor kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily Allah hath been to you Most Merciful!
004.030
YUSUFALI: If any do that in rancour and injustice,- soon shall We cast them into the Fire: And easy it is for Allah.

Also from the hadiths it is clear that the prophet forbade the killing of innocent women and children:

Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Book 52:
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 257:
Narrated 'Abdullah:
During some of the Ghazawat of the Prophet a woman was found killed. Allah's Apostle disapproved the killing of women and children.

Translation of Sahih Muslim, Book 19:
Book 019, Number 4320:
It is narrated by Ibn 'Umar that a woman was found killed in one of these battles; so the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) forbade the killing of women and children.

So again islam teaches that killing of innocent women and children are forbidden by the teachings of the prophet.

And as any true Muslim would say consider the context.
In THAT battle. It is a book that serves any amount of reprobate behavior, just as it supported the prophet Mohammed's reprobate behavior. Awarding him wives. Allowing him to steal his step-sons wife. Pimping out slaves for cash. etc.

WOW all of a sudden you know about context, holy shit, I didn't think you even know the word exist, if alcohol was allowed in islam I would have to drink a gallon today to get over the fact that you actually know about something called context.  O wait, yeah you are a christian, context only works for you when it meets your purpose, and it doesn't apply to everything you read.  Good thing I didn't order the brandy yet.  As for the context, what I qouted was the full report as recorded in bukhari and muslim.  Also if you read the Muslim hadith, it says that when the propeht saw women and children killed he forbade it, that means after the war this was seen and he put a stop to it, that would be the context of that hadith, o wait you probably already forgot you know that there is something called context.... Do you need some ginko biloba?

QuoteIs genocide of God?

Again what was the question we started of with, why are you deflecting the question?  The question is not what activity was christian or not, but if a person is christian or not how can you as a christian say they are not.  But you ask is genocide of god, well lets see what your bible has to say about genocide and then you tell me if it is from god.

Deuteronomy 20:16-17
16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy [a] them�the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites�as the LORD your God has commanded you. 18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God.

It sounds to me that God of the bible is a promoter of Genocide what do you think?

QuoteAre you trying to say that Sunniis and Shiites don't consider each other apostates?

You are catching on, that is absolutely correct.  And now I want to make sure you don't come with the crap about some sect of sunni or shia that started teaching about another prophet or something like that because they are apostates.

QuoteUnequivocally. Nor the black hearted popes that murdered millions of Christians.

Which comes back to the original question, did god give you the authority to know that a person is a christian or not?  And how do you know the heart of the pope was black?  You say because they murdered millions of Christian, it amazes me how you know your history but deny that the chruch changed your teachings.

QuoteGenocide isn't a matter of equivocation. Those I can understand your confusion with the middle eastern Islamic countries sworn to genocide of the Jews.

I forgive your ignorance, Muslims DON�T HATE JEWS, we hate ZIONISTS, and yeah I know you will bring up that Isreal was promised to the jews so lets address that before you waste another day in my life.  Our brother love to qoute the verse from the bible so lets go there:

GENESIS 17:7-9
7 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. 8 The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God."
9 Then God said to Abraham, "As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come.
You can also read: GENESIS 13:15, EXODUS 32:13
NOW, if you read this the way that I read it as stating that the DECENDANTS OF ABRAHAM and NOT the decendants of Judah, then you must admit that this prophecy is fulfilled with the ARABS living in this place.  The Arabs trace their lineage to Ishmile the SON of ABRAHAM.  So like I said muslims hate the zionists not jews.

QuoteYour prophet IS false. At every turn. You are making the mistake of judging your false prophet against George Bush. You need to measure him against God's Holy Word and Jesus Christ. You can start here:

So you want to measure prophethood, well no problem, First of I don�t believe Muhammad (saw) to be god, so that being the case, I cant compare him to your god.  So lets compare him to a prophet we can both agree on, MOSES.
Moses fought wars and killed people and took virgins for himself and his men, Muhammad did similar, he didn�t kill children except those accidentally killed on the battle field.
Moses brought his people a book, Muhammad(saw) did as well
Moese fled with his people from one place to another, Sdo did Muhammad(Saw)
Moses was raised in a household outside of his parents home, so was Muhammad(saw)
Moses was a part of the ruling family, so was Muhammad(SAW)
Moses had multiple wives, so did Muhammad(saw)
SO when I compare my prophet with a prophet we can both agree is a prophet they match up identically.  But then I guess you reject the teaching and prophethood of moses because he was not a christians?  And if you accept that this is fact then I ask you to open your bible to
Deuteronomy 18:18
18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.
And every muslim will tell you that the Quran was an oral revelation that was given to mankind, and everything that was told to him he commanded to us.  That is from your bible a book you claim you believe in, yet you reject what even your bible teaches you?

QuoteIt's not about my mind. If a person truly repents on his death bed, he will be saved. I think even Catholics who are into the Islamic style "works" bit would agree (though I can't answer for them).

We have a different defination of repentance, I know from the story of Pharao when he was drowning he finally accepted that moses was telling the truth about god but it was too late for him.  That is the closest you can get to death bed repentance, that is recorded for both of us to look at and contemplate on.  So tell me what is this defination of repentance in your mind?  For me it is to change your ways, and to get onto the path of truth.  Now does that mean a person in the hospital cannot repent no I am not saying that.  For me death bed is when you are literally minuites from dying, if you are in bed a month before you die that to me is not death bed, because you were preparing to die there.

QuoteOf course you don't. Your god measures on a good/bad scale. Once one is bad enough, the only way he can get a ticket to heaven is by blowing himself up in a bus load of Jewish school children. That's the prime motivator of homicide bombers.

You are right and I just explained again to you why I don�t believe in death bed repentance.  As for the measure of good/bad, yes I believe that for every atom's weight of good a person does and for every atom weight of bad they do they will be rewarded for it on the day of judgement.  As for suicide the quran is clear about this not being something that a person should do:

Quran 4:29-30
004.029
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Eat not up your property among yourselves in vanities: But let there be amongst you Traffic and trade by mutual good-will: Nor kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily Allah hath been to you Most Merciful!
004.030
YUSUFALI: If any do that in rancour and injustice,- soon shall We cast them into the Fire: And easy it is for Allah.

Also from the hadiths it is clear that the prophet forbade the killing of innocent women and children:

Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Book 52:
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 257:
Narrated 'Abdullah:
During some of the Ghazawat of the Prophet a woman was found killed. Allah's Apostle disapproved the killing of women and children.

Translation of Sahih Muslim, Book 19:
Book 019, Number 4320:
It is narrated by Ibn 'Umar that a woman was found killed in one of these battles; so the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) forbade the killing of women and children.

So again islam teaches that killing of innocent women and children are forbidden by the teachings of the prophet.

QuoteNo. It's about Mohammed's good/bad scale. That's why they murder innocent Jews to get their rivers of wine and resealable virgins in heaven.

Who are you fooling man, first of I want to make sure there is a defination here, zionist compared to jews, and the attacks on the zionist state is not all innocent, and you compare the innocent of the zionist state numbers to the innocent of the palenstinian state, a person like me is surprised that there are not more attacks on the zionist state.  You see on western media helicopters and tanks ravaging a town killing innocent children and women while they are sleeping and not even a single apology about it.

QuoteSo your big story of kindness is about how the enslaved got a temporary reprieve from the enslaving jizya tax?

Jizya is paid by those that live in muslim land and are not taxed like muslims.  A muslim is taxed Zakaat a religious tax, they are taxed Sadaqah which can happen any time for any instance for the community, and here the non muslim only gets taxed once a year to collect money to run the society and it is not a tax that is high either, and you call this enslavement.  You are seriously kidding yourself.  Tell me which christian nation can we go to where there is absolutly no tax what so ever, if you cant find one then I think you know how stupid you sound to me.  The only country that I know of that does not have tax, the the republic of Korea, and well we know they are not christian.

QuoteYou are indeed the fruit of Islam.
But God gives us our right to be free. Our framers well understood this.
Only a warped mind could construe relief from a satanic tax, to somehow be "kind".

Again tell me what christian nation can we both move to and not have a tax to pay for living in that state?  If you cant find one, you should admit that the jizya is practical.

QuoteAgain, your self-serving confusion regarding the secular world and Christianity.
God was removed from the U.S. government in 1947 through Everson and the "separation of church and state" that somehow was not noticed in the constitution over the prior 180 years.

Man you I know you cant claim that you misunderstood what I said because it was written down for you to read not something I said.  And I did say that muslims don�t blame christianity because of what some crazy christian does, so why do you go to that extreme for muslims?

QuoteIndeed. Presented here for everyone to see. "Freeing" what God considers to be free people to begin with.
Sex slaves. But then you get concubinage too!

What don�t you get about POWs being slaves after a war?  

QuoteThat has been the way of Islam for 1400 years. What you are saying is that if someone doesn't bow down and submit to satan, then they are not innocent. That's why 2 million have been slain in the Sudan alone in this Islamic Second Jihad. That's your stinking context for the "unbelievers" in Satan:
Koran (Sura 8:12) I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

Do you know the difference between civil war and religious war? America went through the same thing every nation that has become great had a civil war of some form, do I agree what is happening with Sudan absolutely not, but that is what happens with nations where people want change, again civil war.
You keep qouting a beautiful verse, but you are worst than an ostridge because you stick your head in the sand when it comes to understanding what is is teaching, it tells us to strike fear on the battle field this is how you win wars.  If your enemy is afraid of you even coming close they will retreat, that is just common sense but as they say common sense is not really common today.

QuoteExactly the role of WOMEN as property - not even slaves - are treated in Islam TODAY:
"Saudi society is based on Masters and slaves....To be more precise masters and maids... masters are the men and slaves are the women.... The ownership of a woman is passed from one man to another.... from the father or the brother, to another man, the husband."

Where in the quran or authentic teaching of the prophet Muhammad (Saw) does it state that a woman is to be passed from one man to another from father to brother to what ever?  That was a jewish custom, when a woman didn�t bear children, which by the way god killed 2 brothers for, so even if this was upheld by islam (which it is not), you would be saying that you are not in agreement with the god of the bible.

QuoteBut smiting of unbelievers - that's a different subject altogether:
Koran (Sura 8:12) I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

Satan's filth as shown in the quoted immediately above.

Do you see how stupid this argument is? If islam commands that you don�t kill innocent people, don�t you think it means innocent people of your enemies? And if it means innoncent people of the enemies, I think that also includes the unbelievers,  like I said in the qoute you qouted, you are sounding like a broken record, because you have no real issues with islam, instead you bring up waste of time arguments. You asked about genocide, I just showed you that god promoted this in your bible.  No where in islam we are told to kill people to the last, we are to kill those on the battle field unless they ask for protection or they surrender.  From your bible it talks about god commanding the killing of everyone in sight.  And you tell me that my quran is satan derived, I wonder what you really feel about your bible?

QuoteAfter all. There must not have been a God before Mohammed's God that was the opposite of the God of the Christians and Jews.

See the reason you think that the god of islam is different from the god of Jews and Christians, is because we don�t accept that god is a trinity, we believe only in what they refer in the christian religion as the Father.  And the jews believe the same.  And when you read the bible you find that the god of the jews (the father) is exactly who Allah of the quran claims to be.  Not only does god set up laws for you to follow, but gives mankind the responsibility to forbid the evil be it by punishiment of death or whipping or what ever else there is in the books.  Ofcourse I have to say this with caution, because I don�t believe that every discription of the bible fits god almightly.  Like for instance is there  a christian or Jew alive that believes that god cannot defeat who ever god wants his people to defeat?  I think the answer is no, but when you  open up your bible you find the following:

JUDGES 1:19 - The LORD was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had iron chariots.[/i]

Can you believe that god is weak against iron chariots?  Yet this is what your bible teaches, so you are very correct if you say that muslims don�t accept god as described in the bible, because there is quality that do not befit god.  

QuoteIndeed. So why not go blow yourself up among the Jews or kafir, in general in accordance with your god, and enjoy your rivers of wine, and resealable virgins? Oh yea, and the rest of what California, otherwise, has to offer of the Islamic heaven.

Why would I condem myself?  I just showed you in this text that god forbade killing of one's self as well as god forbade killing of innocent women and children.  As for the description of heaven, yes god gave mankind a small portion that we can understand what heaven has to offer as compared to hell.  Who would not love to be walking in a garden under which rivers flow, as compared to hell where the least of punishment is a slipper on your feet that causes your brains to boil.  The reason these examples of what heaven has to offer is so that mankind will know what god is talking about.  Imagine that god said that when you get into heaven you will have grenorienwoejkyocipwenru and nweruiabetryseirn  but you have no idea what that is, what gets you to take your faith seriously?  This is why so many people are turning to satanism and athiesm and what ever other isms there are out there the majority of which are former christians.  Because they don�t see what they will receive when life is over with.

Quote
What you do in industry is different. This is how Islamic sophists like Deedat blow smoke around the truth as they march off to perish.
But you are running and hiding, rather than using your own self professed curiosity.
Why were only two swords enough?
Why did one of the swords get used to cut a guy's ear off?
Why did Jesus heal the guy's ear back?
Who got killed with the swords?
Who used the two swords in battle?

You are pretending that the request for swords somehow equated to the 1400 years of bloody imperialistic conquest of the false prophet. But had you honestly asked yourself why, you would see the difference.

I understand you are not in my type of industry so you have no idea how to ask the 5 whys, your whys are separate questions, the 5 whys would be like this

Why did Jesus have his men buy swords? Either to fight or peal bannanas.
Why did Jesus prepare his men to fight? To defend themselves
Why did they want to defend themselves? The wicked jews wanted to capture jesus
Why did they want to capture Jesus? Because they thougth he blasphemed god
Why did they think he blaspheme god? Because they misunderstood his message

What you now need to do is tell me that I am wrong that jesus didn't by swords to fight, and it was for bannanas.

And no I am not pretending that this is like conquest, or wars, but the fact of the matter is jesus did prepare his men to fight, then changed his mind (by the way that is an attribute that does not befit god, god does not change his mind)

QuoteAnd in any matter that is brought to court under sharia law.
That you are blind to inequity you've already expressed through your favor of polygamy.

The claim that there must be 2 women for 1 man as witness in every case is plainly false if you open the quran 24:4 it states that 4 witnesses are needed to accuse a person of fornication, it is not specific of male or female this is something that 1 male is equal to 1 female.
Yes I do favor pologamy, and it is rather simply why, the prophets of your bible were polygamist, and also from a practical stand point, according to the US censor Bureau, there is 143 Million Females to 138 Million Males that is an average of 96 men to 100 women, the question is what happens to these 4 women who don�t get a husband? Do you say it is ok for them to become lesbians?  Islam says no they can marry a man that is already married.
http://factfinder.census.gov/jsp/saff/SAFFInfo.jsp?_pageId=tp3_gender

QuoteSo how could we judge whether an activity is Christian or not?

Why did you change the question, it was not if an activity was christian or not, it was the person is a christian or not.  There is a big difference, because a muslim goes and drinks alcohol that does not give me the right to say he is not a muslim, I have the right to say this action is not that of a muslim, but I have NO rights to say he was not a muslim.  Yet you are there saying Hitler is not a christian, and you are not unique in this to say ok you made a mistake when saying what you said, this is common with every christian that I speak with they love saying someone is nto a christian when that person does something they don�t agree with.

QuoteWhether that dark period of Catholicism, EXACTLY CONTRARY to God's Word, or the perfectly consistent 1400 year slaughter of Islam, that is perfectly consistent with the behavior of the false prophet and and his book.

Really what about the war in iraq, a war that was first of based on a lie, conducted by evangelical christian George Bush, who said that he speaks to God before he made the decision to attack.  O wait I know your excuse George bush is not a christian right?  You follow a man that was a criminal that tricked you into believing that the messenger of god was actually god and then you call my prophet false, you need to wake up.

QuoteI even believe in death bed repentance if it is genuine.

Make your mind up, does a person need the blood of Jesus or to be genuine and repent to god and do what is right? Also i dont believe in death bed repentance, because before pharoa was killed in the ocean he finally believed in the god of moses but it was too late then, so there is a time when that becomes too late.

QuoteAnd that is why they murder each other. Perhaps you don't but at least some of them even consider each other apostate. That's HOW they can murder each other.
Oh yea, and remember the fruit thing?

You blame the deen because a few people that are not knowledgable and have political agendas and say this is islam? Come on man how silly do you really have to be? There are stories upon stories of not our prophet but those that came after him who have been kind to the people and there is one story that shows the fruit of islam best.  One of the Caliphs was walking through the city and saw an old jew man begging, then he asked him why are you begging, he said so that I can pay the Jizya, imediately the caliph announced that no old person should be the Jizya and that they should be given pension.  That is the fruit of islam, that is what islam teaches, to be just in your actions.  But you are here blaming the entire religion for a few that are not following the teachings of the prophet.  I don�t think any muslim sits here and says because some crazy christian leader like george bush is blowing up a country based on a lie, you don�t find us saying that it is christianity, we say it is him.  But you don�t know how to be just, you require justice but you cant give the same.

QuoteIndeed. Then I should say that Sunnis and Shiites murder each other's innocent men, women and children because of their disagreement regarding Islamic leadership? Is that better?

Again I already explained this if you are listening(reading) you wuold understand

QuoteNow that IS preposterous. Islamic Jihad: "OK we are going to take your town over. Just let us steal what we want, and give us your women and girls so we can sexually enslave them in our harems, and nobody will get hurt."
Just like the Imam in England: "England will be ruled under sharia law whether by submission of by force. Those that don't oppose us will live."

What a lie, islamic Jihad is not like this what so ever, first of Jihad means Struggle, you struggle for what is right, so if you were attacked you fight jihad to avenge your people, and if there are those that support your enmies not willing to uphold to treaties you sign with them then you fight them too.  As for slaves captured in war, the prophet taught us to marry the slaves and free them because there is reward in this.
As for the imam in england, I would have to listen to the context of what he said, and also even if this was exactly true with the context you give, that does not make it right in islam.  You don�t kill innocent people that is a direct teaching in islam.

QuoteSo your god assigns them these sex slaves as spoils of war. Unless of course you are going to make the preposterous suggestion that they took these slaves pressed into service as wives and concubines, for doing a little dusting around the tent.

First of what rights to slaves have in your religion? In islam we are told multiple ways to free them.  In the bible it tells you that slaves can be passed of as property in inheritance, and does not give you situations to free them either.  O wait you are going to tell me that that was the OT and you don�t follow the OT you follow the NT, so lets see what we have there. Colossians 3:22, 1 Peter 2:18, and 1 Timothy 6:1 tells you how they should deal with you, so don�t give me the crap about the NT doesn�t promote slavery. And read LEVITICUS 25:46 to see that they are just property like land.  And I would like to know what laws are in your bible for taking care of slaves?

QuoteNot to mention the slaughter of 1400 years of Jiahd.

In Indonesia 3 teenage girls were beheaded on their way to their Christian school and their heads left on the steps of a Church. The note left behind reads: "We will murder 100 more Christian teenagers and their heads will be presented as presents."

"Once again, women are the targets. In mid-March, rebels assaulted three women gathering firewood and cut off their ears, lips, and breasts."
"Starting in 2003, Janjaweed Arabs, a Sudan-backed militia, have driven 2 million villagers from their homes in ethnic-cleansing attacks designed to suppress local rebels."

"Eyewitness accounts detailing the militia attacks are horrifying. "They killed my 3-year-old son right in front of my eyes," one father from West Darfur said. Since last fall, women have reported more than 500 rapes. Three women said five militiamen beat and raped them last August. The women said, "After they abused us, they told us that now we would have Arab babies. And, if they would find any [more] women, they would rape them again to change the color of their children.""

You have become like a broken record now, I already explained to you that killing of innocent people is forbidden in islam, even on the battle field if a person was to ask for aslyum a muslim is to grant it, and not only grant it but to take that person to safety�
009.006
YUSUFALI: If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.

QuoteThe account of Jesus' crucifixion is detailed in the bible and historical record. Again, you are welcome to characterize it any way you choose. That is up to you. It will be Jesus that you face in judgment regarding your choices:

As I said, and if jesus is god I will say exactly the same thing to him, the claim is he came to die for my sins, and was murdered.  He was not sacrificed for my sins, but was killed for blasphemy.  So that logic that he died for my sins falls apart because if his intention was to die for my sins he commited suicide for my sins first of, and according to the book of god suicide is forbidden.

QuoteSee Son of God thread. Yours is a STAND ALONE RELIGION created by a 7th century FALSE PROPHET. It is HE that causes you transgression at every turn.

It is funny you say this, because I believe the religion of god would be stand alone, it would be most unique, because it is not corrupted by men or satan.  So thanks for pointint out, any religion of the devil will have one of the greatest flaw, it will ascribe partners to god, once the devil has done that to any religion, there is nothing more to do, because from there the people will stray to complete disbelief in god.  How great it is that you mention that fact!!!

QuoteThat's the reason I organized the topics separately. That's why you avoid the topics like Son of God.

I don't avoid the topics, look how long it took me just to respond to you in only 2 of the topics, you have a lot of stuff in each of them (some of it looks like copy paste from emails I received) I don�t discuss those topics because I want to get the ones we are discussing closed, but ofcourse within the relm of discussion you keep adding different topics, like I was just looking at the end of this and you are talking about the jannah, this is supposed to be why not Mohammedanism as opposed to islam, what does the jannah have to do with it I have no idea.  What does the holy spirit have to do with it I have no idea.  So you claim to organize the topics but you have added so many more topics within this one discussion that it makes it difficult to get this one finalized and move on.

To answer the question of why not mohammadanism, in Christianity you pray to Christ, it would be expected in mohammadanism the person prays to Muhammad, but we don�t, to pray to THE GOD, ALLAH in Arabic, and that is what ISLAM is, THE SUBMISSION TO THE WILL OF THE GOD.  So that is why we follow islam and not muhammadanism.

But ofcourse you have brought up other topics so if I don�t address them you will say I am running away form the topics so I will answer them but I wont answer other threads until these are closed.

QuoteThere is no point in your even picking up a bible as long as you deny that Jesus died on the Cross.
But you must deny it because your antichrist false prophet directly contraded the reports of the eye witness of the Apostles

It is very correct I deny that jesus died on the cross, the reason I pick up the bible is because Christians come knocking on my door telling me that I need to read the bible and accept Christ, I have never gone knocking on any Christian door so to me I need to defend myself, and as in judo and karate, you use the opponent's strength against them the strength Christians have is the bible, just like the strength muslims have is the quran.  As you have tried to use verses against me so I to can use verses of the bible against you.

QuoteGod manifest Himself in one Spirit. But God manifest Himself to Jews first, then the Gentiles through Jesus shed blood. That is what the New Testament, the new covenant is all about. The very thing that you reject, is a Gentile's only path to salvation.

See this is where I also have a problem, here god waited for so long to come to the world and meet us and save us, yet according to the record of the bible, jesus has been quoted as saying

But he (Jesus) answered and said, I am NOT SENT but unto the lost sheep of the HOUSE OF ISRAEL (the Jews only). "Then came she (the Canaanite woman) and worshipped him, saying Lord, help me (to cure my daughter). "But he answered and said, it is not meet to take the children's bread and CAST IT TO DOGS (the non-Jews). " MATTHEW 15:24-26

And yes I read where he eventually helped her, after she called herself a dog begging for scraps.  But here we have god come to the earth didn�t bother to make contact with the gentiles like myself, and im supposed to believe he died for my sins? Come on man, that makes no sense what so ever.  You will not find in the bible that jesus himself went out and preached to the gentiles, so if god according to you didn�t think I was worthy of being preached to and invited to the truth why should I even bother in believing in him?  Now the Islamic version of the story makes sense to any common man.  Each prophet was sent to a specific people, and Muhammad was sent to mankind, and in muhammad's lifetime he did reach out to many non arabs which proves this point further.

QuoteTypical. Just like you reject the 44 verses that detail Jesus as "the Son of God" so here you reject that "a Son" is given and try to blow smoke up around it. Here's the Tanach:

Tanach - Isaiah 9:5 For a child has been born to us, a son given to us, and the authority is upon his shoulder, and the wondrous adviser, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, called his name, "the prince of peace."

The very passage that allows many Jews to come to realize that Jesus is that promised Son.

Yeah did you  not read the part where it says
Tanach - Isaiah 9:5 For a child HAS BEEN born to us�

Last time I checked this was in the past tense, meaning it happened already.

QuoteWhich, in your western mind that you use for obfuscating from the truth, is more "miraculous", is unimportant. What is important is the purpose that each was sent for. That's what matters.

And I accept the purposes of each, Adam's purpose was the father mankind, Jesus' purpose was to be the messiah to the jews there is no problem with that, the problem comes back to jesus being god. I don�t know how you cant get that into your head.  

QuoteIt sounds like the TRUTH. Because it is.

So you are telling me that god had sex with mary

QuoteYou are suggesting, through your fleshly perverted Muslim eyes then, that this verse says that God had carnal fleshly sexual relations with Mary?
Fleshly Muslim eyes, because, of your stand on polygamy, and also of course, because even your heaven is of the flesh:

If that is not it, tell me man read the verse and tell me what does it sound like to you? Does it sound like god willed him into being or like god had sex with mary I am a man before I am anything else and this verse sounds like god had sex with mary.

As for heaven, the quran says there will be things in heaven that is like what you knew on earth, my wife here on earth will be my wife in heaven etc.. so ofcourse god gave us examples that we can relate to so that we will be willing to give up the worldly pleasures and strive for heaven to be with god and his messengers.

Also just to prove to you that you bible denies what heaven is, when Adam and Eve were created they were in heaven in the Garden of Eden.  (the garden is a description of the muslim heaven).  Eve was the wife of Adam (muslims are told they will have their wives in heaven)  Adam ate from the tree of knowledge in the garden of eden (there has to be fruits in heaven as well if adam had to eat there)

So from just the story of adam and eve your description of heaven is lacking and that is form your own bible.

Quote1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that

Thanks for the verse, I will keep that for my future records.

Quote"Nor thieves like Mohammed.

And what exactly did he steal?  If you are talking about the raids on caravans, im sure if you read with trying to seek the truth you would know that the raids were on caravans that were going to sell the stuff of the muslims that was left in mecca after the people were expelled.  And yes even after these things were retrieved these raids continued because they continued to happen to muslim traiders.

QuoteSure. Bombs went off inside the building and then it just so happened that a bunch of Arab Muslims ran commercial aircraft into the towers at the same moment.
Your false religious indoctrination and propagandizing, is only trumped by your political indoctrination that the false religion requires.
Read a Walid Shoebat book or two. He is a former PLO terrorist that overcame the same twisted stuff that you have been exposed to.

The source I gave was not a muslim source, it was a Christian(atleast that is what I think he is, I could be wrong about that though but he was not a muslim at the time of the film) who questioned the actions of 9-11 so don't give me the crap about arab muslims on the plane, did you know that some of these so called hijackers were found alive days after the hijacking?

QuoteHe even had an outspoken female poet killed. And his hit-men did it as she suckled her child.

I listened to all the video, the person didn�t even give any reference, so we are to take his word for it.  What a waste of time, he talked about the so called 900 jews that were killed the person on the video forgot to mention that it was a jew that presided over them and gave that punishment to them for breaking a treaty.  Why don�t you get me the source of this claim that you have here.

QuoteThe same foolishness to try to justify instruction by a false prophet, that forces you to say most of the New Testament is corrupt, because it disagrees with your false prophet's book.
You actually believe that because Jesus repeated a single prayer, a single time, that it somehow qualifies a Muslim's 495 repetitions daily. But it doesn't. The "BUT" indicates also:
Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.  

This is why you will keep yourself locked out of the things of the Spirit. It's about obedience and understanding, not willful disobedience and intentional MISunderstanding.
The reason for this passage is because once we enter a relationship with Jesus Christ we can talk with Him. Like He is right here with us, because He is.

The verse you quoted said don�t use vain repetitions of prayer, when I say to god, "God is Great", "Praise God", "Thank God" is that a prayer? Or praising god?  If you see me reminding myself that god is great as prayer you are sadly mistaking.  

As for the holy spirit, based on conversations with you and other Christians, I would say he is a fool, here I cannot understand how 3 different people can be one person, the only spirit cannot help me understand until I accept it to me like I said he is a fool.  Ofcourse im talking in the context of what I just said, I don�t believe that the angel is a fool but from your teachings he is.

QuoteNot eating during daylight hours is A DIET, not a fast, as the following video nicely details:
"Ramadan - LAMB A Dinner?"

When a muslim is in fast he is always in remembrance of god, during the fasting month he is striving to prayer more than he would in the normal year to god.  You say it is a diet, I agree part of it is a diet there is actually science behind it.  But like I explained to you before as for fasting it is not that you should feast after you break the fast.  There is meaning behind fasting and for those that rush off to eat and forget to worship god, they are truly lost.  Fasting month is coming up and if there is a mosque close to where you live go and see, you will see there are those that quickly break their fast and get ready for prayer and others that have a meal.  That is just the nature of people.  But the purpose is to gain closeness to god.

QuoteIf you think it is about numbers I would suggest it's not:

Well played, you just skipped over my addressing women rights, and jump to another topic, why don�t you way that the women rights I described is inferior compared to what you have in your faith?  And I am sure in another post that I will soon read after this one you will start to talk about the same women rights thing again.

QuoteParticularly as practiced in the cradle of Mohammedanism, where in Saudi Arabia for example, they send the police to your house if you don't show up for morning prayers. And of course the punishment for apostasy is death, even in Canada as per the following video:

Religion is for god, and for those that force it onto others they will be punished for it, so if the police goes to a person's home to wake them up for salaat, well that is the rule of the land, but there is no justification for this in the quran or hadith to the best of my knowledge.

QuoteI addressed it thoroughly and specifically. That Mohammed didn't have a personal proclivity toward alcohol that he imposed on others is irrelevant. To pretend that not drinking is good fruit that somehow trumps the millions murdered at the hand of Islam is so patently absurd it's laughable.

You ignore that I mention to you that muslims are always worshiping god, that you forget and jump to alcohol that I mentioned as well.  Man this thing is in text it is not like I spoke and you forgot about it, but then what can I expect from a person as yourself who is intent on using deception, as his teacher paul taught him.

QuoteUnity?  Here you go from the absurd to the absolutely ridiculous. Sunni and Shiites blow up each other's innocent men, women and children because of their theological differences. Don't give me this unity crap.
THIS IS WHAT REAL ISLAMIC FRUIT IS - NOT BEING COMPELLED NOT TO DRINK.

When Christians differ they may set up another denomination. They don't murder each other over it

I already explained this to you and you are just plain ignorant and will not listen.  The very first thing wrong with what you are saying is that muslims are not to kill women and children unless it be accidental, so automatically those that do this is not following the teachings of the prophet.  Ofcourse unlike you I don�t say they are not muslim, because god alone knows what is in their heart.  The prophet fortold that a time will come that people in the ummah will fight each other each fighting to defend the same thing.  Like I said before the difference between sunni and shia is leadership.  And as I said I can go to a shia mosque and worship and there will be no issues with that and they can come to a sunni mosque and there is no problem with that.  And yes there is a unity amongst muslims we stand shoulder to shoulder when we worship god, and it doesn�t matter where in the world I go even if I don�t know the language if there is a mosque that the teachings of the quran and sunnah are applied I am more than welcome. (I had to be specific about the teachings because there are false teachings like cadiani and others like this that claim there is another prophet which the sunnah is clear that this will never happen)

QuoteThey have the sign of Jonah and the whale. But more importantly NOT TO SEEKETH A SIGN.
Exactly what Muslims do. Just like the Pharisees did.

Mat 16:1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.

Why did you stop in the quoting, if you continued reading you would find out why I want to know what was the sign. In Mat 16:4

4A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah." Jesus then left them and went away.

This is why I am asking again what was the sign of Jonah, because that is the sign i need to look for?

It is not what he did with the swords it is why the swords were purchased in the first place, here you have a man of peace buying swords what was it for? That is the question was it not for putting up a fight but when he found the roman army was with the priests then jesus changed his mind about what to do with the swords?
If not tell me what was the purpose of the swords? Like I said if it was not to put of a fight was it for pealing banannas?  
It doesn't matter what you use a book for, it matters what was the intent of the book.  The same is true with the swords, especially since jesus commanded his men to sell everything and buy swords, that tells me that there was a purpose for the swords.

QuoteExactly. You have to believe first.

What? If I have to believe something before I understand what I am believing then this same stupid approach can be used for converting to any relgion even the one that believe that a gay fairy comes and blesses you with his farts in your sleep, all you have to do is believe it first then you will understand it, come on what kind of mind job do you have man? God's message should be clear, if god's true intentions is to guide me to truth.  If god wanted me to just have a mind job he would nto give me the ability to think.

QuoteYou believe in and follow a false prophet - not God. You are a Mohammedan.
God has shown you what to believe through His Word.

It is sad when people think you are like them, you are the one who is following a false prophet whos name is paul.  That is who you follow, Jesus never claimed divinity.

QuoteIt's about what Jesus said, and what God's Word says. Jesus was made manifest to reveal God to us. The Word made flesh. What did Jesus say?

Interestingly enough I answered this question in a vidoe, so watch it and you will get a verbal answer to this question from me for these 2 verses.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwjgskYKBcE

QuoteIndeed it does. But who are the signs from? Again you are just as the Pharisees.

I am not like the wicked and adulterous jews of Jesus, because I accept him as the messiah to the jews, I don't accept him as god.  But you bring up an interesting question so answer it for me please:
WHAT WAS THE SIGN OF JONAH?  That would be enough to answer this question of did jesus die for my sins.

QuoteWe will not be brothers until you repent of your evil ways. Of Mohammed's evil ways. Indeed Mohammed's book even prevents you from being allowed to be my friend.

I know you as my brother in humanity, if you don't even  know me as a brother in humanity no wonder you would not even listen to a single word is say, you cant even accept me as a part of your human family, yep this is the power of the holy spirit that makes you forget that we are related from our parents adam and eve.  This is a bunch of bogus BS, I already explained to you this was more specific than friend, when you read the arabic it is more specifically Protecting friend, and the Yusuf Ali translation is the only one that I know of that captured this in his works.  Like I said in my post to your sura 5:51 there is ample proof that I can be not only friends with christians and jews but even marry them.

QuoteThat's absurd bull and you know it. The sword of Islam has for 1400 years been the bloody sword of imperialistic conquest.

It is you who is talking BS and trying to push that off on me.  The quran teaches that there is no compulsion in religion, that truth stands clear from error.  If I were to force you to pray etc, and you do it because you are forced then this according to the teachings of islam your pray will not be accepted and I will be punished for forcing you.  So what you say is crap.  Look how long muslims were in Spain for instance yet when muslims left there were still christians living there, interestingly enough there was not a single muslim alive in spain after the christian conquest.  So which was more tollerant of other religions? Look palestine, today there are christians, jews and muslims who live as neighbors, even in this war thorn country by the zionists, yet this place was ruled by muslims for so long, so as the quran says all you follow is conjecture, you don't know the truth and because of that you give false claims.  Even iran has a jewish polulation so that is enough to proove that what you say is false, yes the muslims controlled the land but the people still practiced their religions.

QuoteI'm sure the women in your audience will be really eager to read on. Particularly when they find that their word is worth 1/2 a man and their inheritance is 1/2. And they are deficient in intelligence:
Sura al-Baqara 2:282 - "The women asked, "What is deficient in our intelligence and religion, Messenger of God?" He answered, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in your intelligence."

Where do you get your stuff? What quran did you copy this from? Surely it could not be the quran that muslims use
Sura 2:282 -
002.282 - http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! When ye deal with each other, in transactions involving future obligations in a fixed period of time, reduce them to writing Let a scribe write down faithfully as between the parties: let not the scribe refuse to write: as Allah Has taught him, so let him write. Let him who incurs the liability dictate, but let him fear His Lord Allah, and not diminish aught of what he owes. If they party liable is mentally deficient, or weak, or unable Himself to dictate, Let his guardian dictate faithfully, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her. The witnesses should not refuse when they are called on (For evidence). Disdain not to reduce to writing (your contract) for a future period, whether it be small or big: it is juster in the sight of Allah, More suitable as evidence, and more convenient to prevent doubts among yourselves but if it be a transaction which ye carry out on the spot among yourselves, there is no blame on you if ye reduce it not to writing. But take witness whenever ye make a commercial contract; and let neither scribe nor witness suffer harm. If ye do (such harm), it would be wickedness in you. So fear Allah; For it is Good that teaches you. And Allah is well acquainted with all things. If ye are on a journey, and cannot find a scribe, a pledge with possession (may serve the purpose). And if one of you deposits a thing on trust with another, let the trustee (faithfully) discharge his trust, and let him Fear his Lord conceal not evidence; for whoever conceals it, - his heart is tainted with sin. And Allah knoweth all that ye do.

And there is a reason why 2 women and the verse is clear as to the reason it says "so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her. " why is that, because god in his infinite wisdom knows women are hormonal, and in a situation where you are talking about wealth distribution, if they are upset with the person who should get more they in spite may say the opposite.  Even with my wife and sister sometimes when they are in their monthly courses they say things that can cause a person to fight, but then you realize that they are on their monthlies, and you leave them alone as the quran instructs.  But you want to talk about the rights of women lets see what your bible has to say about this.
1 CORINTHIANS 14:34-35  -34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. [women are not even allowed to talk in the church]
1 Corinthians 11:3 - 3Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. [you complain about the muslim being told that the man is the head of the woman but here your own bible tells you the same thing]
Deuteronomy 25: 11-12 - 11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity. [if a woman saves the life of her husband and grabs the balls of the other man you are to chop off her hands, this is the love for the wife that saved her husband]
Genesis 3:16 - 16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you." [Again a woman is told that man will rule over her]
Exodus 21:7 - 7 "If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do. [this one takes the cake, a man can sell his daughter as a slave, and you have problem with islam saying that 2 women are equlivilent to 1 man in the recording of inheritance?]

QuoteParticularly when the women find that the one of Islam gave Mohammed a special revelation JUST FOR MOHAMMED so ONLY HE could have as many wives as he wanted.
And another special "revelation" to allow him to take his step-son's wife for himself.

You have problem with the prophet's rights on the wives he had, did you know that after the revelation came for only 4 wives he did not re-marry after that, and he along with all the other men that had more than 4 were allowed to keep their wives but were not allowed to remarry until then ended up with less than 4? Not even he had rights to marry any other woman.  Also you talk about his step son's wife, this was to get the people to understand that an adpoted child is not the same as your own children.  Since we live by his example him doing this clarified this to us so we would not have any questions about this for the future.

According to the quran:
004.048
YUSUFALI: Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed.
The only sin that god will NEVER forgive is ascribing partners to him, yet chistians have set up 3 partners with god and ask that we do the same.  Before it is too late and you spend an eternity in hell change your ways and come to the truth.  The day of judgement alone will be a day that is as 50,000 years can you even think to stand in hell for eternity.  STOP ascribing partners with god it would be better for you.

The quran is a complete message that came to us via the prophet muhammad (saw) it has all truths in it from how to deal with myself to how to deal with enemies and everything between.  The last and final message from god to mankind should be this complete, that it does not leave the guess work into it.  Like for instance the church has the delema of homosexuality, islam doesn't, it says clearly it is wrong.  You would expect the book of truth to be that plain.
As the quran requires me to tell you
004.171
YUSUFALI: O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
And that is what I say to you about this topic of god having a son.

QuoteThe vast majority of Muslims who come to Jesus Christ do it simply by reading God's Word. But they are seeking God. God reveals Himself to them through His Word, then as they understand they become saved and can enjoy the things of the Spirit of God.

The vast number of people that convert to hinduism and buddism have the same experience as well.

QuoteYou put your effort int MISunderstanding.

There is a difference between misunderstanding and questioning, if a person tells me to sell everything and buy swords I expect that I am going to use this sword to save my life that my possessions are not worth anything more than my life that I will be defending.  So when the bible tells me that jesus told his followers to sell everyting and buy swords the question is why? There is something that we use in industry call the 5 whys, if ask why 5 times to any problem you come to the solution, ofcourse that goes with saying if a new problem arises you start asking your 5 whys from there.  That would get you to the solution and cause of the problem.  So take at apporach for every question you have about islam the 5 whys are answered in clearity.  Like for instance you talked about why 2 women = 1 man in withness to inheritance the first why gives you the answer.

QuoteHitler wasn't a Christian either. You have to understand what being a Christian is through God's Word, not through the actions of men like the Crusades, or the papal murder of millions of Christians.

I find this to be a common excuse amongst christians, this is the get out of jail free card, who are you to judge? Did god give you that special power to judge who is a christian and who is not? Are you better than god that you know what was in a person's heart? The blasphemy that you christians protray in condeming others is just redicilius who gave you the rights to judege a person's christianity?  As a mulsim I would not ever say that someone I disagree with is not a muslim, because only 1 mustard seed's worth of faith is enough for them to be a muslim and god alone knows how much that one seed will be worth on the day of judgement, it might be all that is needed to keep that person out of hell.  But here you are stating that because a perosn didn't follow your branch of "truth" they are not a christian� I really would like to know hwere you got the wisdom and knowledge of god to decide that hitler was nto a christian.

You asked what the bible says here is what is says:
Ezekiel 18:19-21 -  21 "But if a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die.

QuoteMany make the claim falsely it's true. But when they disagree they simply form another denomination.
Sunnis and Shiites murder each other's innocent men, women and children because they disagree theologically.

This is a false claim about sunni and shia, the dissagreement is not about theology it is about leadership.  The sunnis believe the leader comes from the people, the shia believes the leader comes from the family of the prophet.  That is the difference, they both follow the same Quran, they both pray the same way, they both make the same pilgrimage the both fast the same way, there is no difference on the theology of islam.  And don�t bring up fatwahs because that is the opinion of a scholar on what it taught by the quran and hadith.  It is the responsibility of every muslim to first go to the quran and then hadith and if it is not there then to the teaching of a scholar who is knowledgable in both to determine what is the path to follow.  So again sunni or shia do not differ theologically so this is a misunderstanding on your behalf.  If you are an honest person I would expect that you wont repeat this lie anymore.

QuoteIslam. Your head is in the sand. The Quran is the sword of Islam? That's preposterous the sword is the sword of Islam and the Islamic imposed fate on "unbelievers".
Koran (Sura 8:12) I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

Sir, did you not read the quran that tells us to first use diplomacy? The sura tells you how to fight a war, like I said in my video what do you do with enemies on the battle field do you have cucumber sandwiches and tea?

And here is what god says about treaties:
009.004
YUSUFALI: (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.

So as a muslim I am to uphold treaties with those that hold their end of the treaty.

QuoteAnd because of the reprobate nature of your prophet, you continue the absurd notion that coming to the defense of the defenseless is somehow equivalent to the reprobate IMPERIALISTIC CONQUEST of Mohammedanism.

In the conquests of islam, when the war was over and peace came back to the lands, the people that were originally there, still had access to their religion.  I already gave you the example of spain, and it is getting annoying talking about the same thing on 3 posts so we will discuss it in one place.

QuoteSure. Taking things to extremes. And what's a little going overboard when your false prophet prescribes the behavior?

Ok I am tired of you lying against my prophet, please produce proof of the prophet condoning the killing of children or women.  There is ample proof that the prophet condemed such things, that the followers of the prophet had to ask what should they do in night raids when there is the possiblity of women and children getting hurt.  So for those that don�t follow the deen(way of life) as it is taught don�t blame my prophet.  So please you make an assusation produce your proof that the prophet gave orders to kill women and children.

QuoteExactly. No. They killed him because He said He is the Messiah and said He is God. Same reason they wanted to stone Him.

YET you will tell me that jesus died for my sins, what he killed or did he die for my sins? And if he died for my sins like I said before that would be characterized as suicide.

QuoteAnd this is what will continue to prevent you from coming into relationship with Him but instead engage in vane repetitions as the heathen do.

Christians are the ones that keep repeating that jesus died for my sins, not me, im asking how did he die for my sins when you are telling me he was murdered, he was not offered as sacrifice from men to god, he was murdered as you claim.  So it is not me that is repeating myself, it is you that claim something that I say required proof for my faith.

QuoteYou will never find God with your head and vain prayer. That's the tragic mistake like the lost sophists like Deedat.

Even I as a muslim would never say something like this to you, because I don�t know the will of god, maybe the week before your death you will finally understand that a man did nto die for your sins and accept islam.  Here you are condeming me as if you have the authority of god.  It amazes me how christians claim to be so god concious  yet they take the power that god has for himself and they use it as if they own it.  You are truly lost, I pray that you find that path of truth.  If my pray and good works are vain god and I will discuss this on the day of reckoning, but you on the other hand are ascribing a partner with god, the only sin that god said he will NEVER forgive, that is something you should fear my friend, STOP ascribing partners to god.

Jesus was clear in what he said, where he said to us:

Mat7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
So from this One good fruit is enough to say that this is nto a corrupt tree.  Ofcourse this goes with the most important of important laws are to remain unaltered, which is that GOD IS ONE!!!

QuoteThe bible prohibits drunkenness too.

Could you please provide the place where this is forbidden in the bible? I would apreciate the verse.

QuoteImperialistic bloody conquest of the First Jihad.

12,000 deadly terror attacks just since 9-11.

There is ample proof that the attacks of 9-11 was an inside job, and this is not from muslim sources but non muslim sources, a good place to start is the movie called loose change, so I question any of these attacks attributed to muslims because of the fact that there is enough proof to show that 9-11 was an inside job.  As for the other claims you have about killing women and children, as I stated before, and I am tired of having the same conversation in multiple posts, the prophet NEVER condoned killing of women and children knowingly.

QuoteWhat does the bible say about Islamic salat?

I do hope that you paid attention to the context of the verse, it was talking about loud prayers, muslims don�t repeat those zikhir loudly it is to be said in a whisper, but even still hhere is the hyprocacy if what you are saying is truth, then this is where you should renounce christianity right now.  Open up Matthew 26:36-50 and read the entire thing and pay special attention to the verses here as you read them especially to 26:44 - 44So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing.
So here Jesus himself is repeating himself and according to you he condemed such actions when worshiping god, so tell me how can you even think about continuing to believe that jesus knows what he is talking about according to your bible?  Unless you misunderstand which I think you did, when I ask god to forgive me that is what I am asking god for, im not saying it out of ritual and those that say it out of ritual do so because they lack knowledge.  And yes we are commanded to remember god atleast 5 times a day because you can die any time of the day and if you remember god he will remember you.

QuoteFasting is not for the sake of God. All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags to Him

Islamic fasting. Get up before daylight, and pig out. Drink water all day, after the sun sets, pig out.

Those that pig out don't know the purpose behind their fast, the quran tells us we fast to gain nearness to god and to teach ourselves self restraint:, so because people forget the purpose of why they do things and pig out does not mean this is what it was intended for.  Me personally I don�t eat any more than I do during the regular months infact I eat less, because I understand the purpose is not to starve myself but for the rememberance of god and to understand what my brothers who are less fortunate has to go through.  So again this is just hog wash from you because it has no validity in islam,  the prophet (Saw) use to start and end his fast on a few dates and water or milk.  It was not a feast.
002.183
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Fasting is prescribed to you as it was prescribed to those before you, that ye may (learn) self-restraint,-
02.185
YUSUFALI: Ramadhan is the (month) in which was sent down the Qur'an, as a guide to mankind, also clear (Signs) for guidance and judgment (Between right and wrong). So every one of you who is present (at his home) during that month should spend it in fasting, but if any one is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed period (Should be made up) by days later. Allah intends every facility for you; He does not want to put to difficulties. (He wants you) to complete the prescribed period, and to glorify Him in that He has guided you; and perchance ye shall be grateful.

QuoteIn Islam a woman's word is half a man's so blow this nonsense elsewhere.

That is because you have no understanding, in islam it is a man's responsibility to take care of his wife, what ever a man works for the woman is entitled to 100% of it, what ever a woman works for the man is entitled to 0% of it.  In islam we know that there is a difference between a man and woman, and as such treat them each differently.  When a woman has her periods she is excused from praying, there is absolutley no excuse for a man to not pray in any normal circumstance.  In this case the woman has more of an advantage than the man, but in all it is balanced.  Your problem is that you don�t recognize that your woman is not the same as you.  And because of that you don�t realize that she should be treated differently than you.  God in his infinite wisdom made us muslim men know this.

QuoteWhat I am doing here is showing the injustice of Mohammed's delusion of 1.5 billion people in the world today. Let alone all the lost that have followed the false prophet for the last 1400 years.

What you are doing is making false allegations on the prophet which I am going to do my best with the limited knowledge I have to answer them all.  You know what is really interesting it is that when you compare the number of practicing muslims to practicing christians the number is even greater and you have over a billion more people than we have in islam.  I wonder why is that?  Could it be that muslims feel that closeness to god that we run to our prayers rather than walk?  

Quote1400 years of murderous evil unleashed against the non-Islamic world.

You have not answered the question because the question is according to jesus no bad tree can bear good fruit, I gave you a few of the good fruits and instead of talking about that, you are talking about something you want to show as a bad fruit, sir, the bible you believe in says no good tree can bear bad fruit and no bad tree can bear good fruit, so you need to show that ALL the fruits of islam is bad and ofcourse you cant, because the unity in islam is enough to show a good fruit, as an indian muslim I feel just as comfortable going to an african mosque or a cocasian mosque, or a chinese mosque where all they speak is chinese, this is a uniting of the world that comes from islam, can you as a christian go to a church where the entire thing is done in a language that is forign to you, and it would be as if you were at home in your regular church?

QuoteI never indicated that the Quran was uninspired. The source of it's inspiration is obvious to anyone in the non-Islamic world that knows anything about Islam.

Mat 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

I asked you this before but you keep posing this over and over again, what is the sign of jonah?

QuoteSent strong delusion that we should believe that God so love the world that He gave His only begotten Son?

I will get into this once we can close off some of these discussions, because I am tired of switching topics with christians in conversation, if we don�t come to a definitive solution then what was the point of wasting almost 4 hours just reading and repling to this the posts that I did reply to.  So lets discuss the 3 topics we are back and forth with until they are closed but do remind me once we have finished this topic about 2 cor 2:11 I promise you I will disucss this with you.

QuoteHere is a verse that mentions both that perhaps suggests that the Spirit of God remains in those Jews that have been sovereignly blinded by God, and the Comforter manifestation of the Spirit that is given to Christians:

So now you have the manifestation of the holy spirit as the comforter, so you have Father, Son, Holy Ghost, Comforter�. You guys are worst than hindus atleast they know what they believe.  Your excuse for this is the same reasoning that hindus give for the manifestation of Durga as Kali. Or any of the other avatars that they have.

QuoteKJV Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

I havent seen this one for a while, it is great that you bring it up.  I first want to make sure that the reading audience understands the language of the jews, because apparently this christian does not.  If we open up the following verse we find:
Psalm 82:6 - "I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'
So for the jews to call someone Mighty God, or ever lasting father to them was not a problem because it is in their tradition to use such terms for themselves.  According to jewish tradition Hezekiah was the person who was given these names and in his life he was addressed as Mighty God.  Also from the verse you qouted from the Tanach it says "For a child has been born to us" meaning that it happened already not in the future so from 2 angles this has been disprooven to say jesus is god.

QuoteMuslims understand that Jesus is a manifestation of God. That the Virgin Mary's conception of Him was miraculous, and unlike any other prophet or apostle. Then amazingly, they deny that Jesus was begotten of God. Consider the term beget:

1. To father; sire.
2. To cause to exist or occur; produce: Violence begets more violence.

If God didn't beget Jesus, then who caused Jesus to exist?

Muslims believe that the virgin Mary became pregnant by God having sent His Spirit to Mary. It's obvious from the term, that if Mary became pregnant by God, then God begat Jesus.

But you have to deny all of the verses that use the term begotten in the bible because of the absurd verse in the Quran that forces you to deny the obvious.

We do not say god begot Jesus, Jesus to us is a creation just like Adam, you and I both agree that Adam was not god, and he was more miraclously created than jesus, jesus required a mother, Adam didn�t.  And you say something that is a lie, we don�t believe god impregnated mary with the holy spirit, the quran says the holy spirit (angel) told mary that she will be pregnant and when she asked how, the spirt told her god only has to will a thing into being and it is.  So don�t misrepresent our teachings to trick other people to believe we believe what you believe that mary was impregnated by the spirit of god.  I deny that the term begotten in the bible can refer to god especailly when we are talking about god having children.

QuoteAnd don't give me that stupid Islamic "Christians believe God had fleshly carnal relations with Mary" stuff.
You understand Mary's conception of Jesus to have been of God too.

I understand that god only has to say BE and it is, so the conception of jesus to mary was only a will of god, that is a powerful god, that is what I expect of god in my minute knowledge of god that god does not have to do antyhing he just says to it be and it will be.

QuoteThat is how God begat Jesus.
You and your false prophet are the only ones that lower God around here.
I follow His Word. You follow the 23 year record of the recitations of the unwitnessed "revelations" of a 7th century false prophet, that run DIRECTLY CONTRARY to the Word of God

Really it doenst sound like this is how mary will concieve when I read the bible, it says
Luke 1:35
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

That does not sound like god just willing it into being it sounds like something else.  And I am not lowering god to sex, tell me when you read this statement from luke do you get any inclination that god willed jesus into being?  I know you will find it hard to be honest but I am giving you the benefit of doubt.

QuoteThis Jesus?

Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Yes the very same Jesus if you open up your bible to Luke 22:35-37 you will find that jesus tells his deciples to sell everything and buy swords:

QuoteLuke 22:36 - 36He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

Like I said in my video what was the swords for? To peal bannanas? 

QuoteFolks without a life in Christ can't expect to understand the things of the Spirit:

How can I accept something I don't believe in? I believe in god, that there is no doubt, now god would manifest signs for me to know what is truth and what is not, I find those signs from the quran not from the bible.  So there is a catch 22 in your faith I first have to believe that jesus is god then it will be clear to me he is god, well DUH!!! If you started of believe Jesus is god you will make that your foundation.  So the question is how do you get there, there is no proof of this, and no proof from Jesus' mouth either.  See this is the beauty of islam, first god gives you signs that you can go out and verify yourself and determine the book is from God.  Then he gives you the rules and regulations to follow, and because you believe in him the rules are easy to follow.  Tell me what sign can I look out and see the father, son and holyghost in from the bible, for every one you give me I will give you 3 from the quran.  The only signs you can even think about pulling out of the bible will point to only one person of the 3 you claim is god, and that is the Father.  So my brother believe in the father, through whom Jesus perfromed many miracles, with who's power jesus did many mighty works.  Who is god to us all including Jesus.

The sword of islam is the quran and I ask everyone reading this to read the quran with an unbaised mind.  Just because the quran says something like you are allowed to marry up to 4 wives don't get turned off continue reading, and then find out why up to 4 etc.

QuoteI have visited over 3,000 videos. Perhaps 95% of those are Christian or Muslim videos. Based on that experience I have found that Muslim censors vastly outcensor Christian censors, as a percentage, in their respective category.

Like I said to me this is a double standard, if you have an issue with sensorship, then have an issue with it period.  Don't have a temporary issue with it because a higher percentage of muslims sensor. First of let me explain to you something, the whole reason I bought a webcam and posted videos on youtube was simply because an evangelical christian sat behind the camera and lied about my religion and then I confronted him about it all he could do was tell me im going to hell etc, so I bought a camera and created a video agaisnt it, you are more than welcome to find the first vidoe I created and see for yourself, maybe you should watch it.
My first video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83rrS0Hd7jM

QuoteNo first and second God. One God as I have shown you repeatedly. If you made an effort to understand the bible (which the natural man can't expect to do) you would understand that the "law" is pressed into the Christian, through the Holy Ghost.

This just takes the cake, if no natural man can ever expect to understand the bible without the holy ghost, and the holy ghost will not come to any man that does not believe that jesus died for his sin, how can we ever expect that I will ever understand the bible since I  refuse to believe god commited suicide for my sins.  Also there are so many christians that claim that the have the holy spirit in them a great example is Swaggart, but then you find that they are commiting adultry etc� what the holy spirit was sleeping that night?  Every single church claims they have the spirit yet many of them don�t agree with each other.  

QuoteIndeed the line is a blur between the truth and taqiyyah, isn't it?
Yes I should indeed have said "homocide bomber".

Blur? Sir I don�t have to lie to you, what do I have to lie to you about?  If I believed it was ok for suicide bombings then I would say so, I have an understanding as to why my brothers have resorted to this action, it is because you have the isrealies who are backed by america and her weapons of distruction from far, that is used to commit genocide on those people of palestine for the sake of land and these people have no choice but to attack in this manner, I don�t agree with it but I say atleast they are not cowards sitting in a black hawk helicopter killing people armed with stones on the streets.  I don�t have the time to search for it now, but I will look for it, there is a hadith that the prophet(Saw) forbad the soldiers form going into the battle with the intention of getting killed, he said they are not matrys, so to me that is the same verdict for a homocide/suicide bomber.

QuoteNothing you could say about Jesus would offend me. It's Jesus Christ you will have to answer to.

First of he is a prophet that is beloved by muslims so we would not degrade any of our prophets.  Secondly if this is the love you have for your god I really don�t know.  If someone offends my wife I would want to fight with that person, and here you are talking about god according to you and you don�t have the least bit care about it.  Back in the 80's there was a cartoon about jesus that basically showed him as gay or something of the sort, and it was muslims not christians that protested, think about the amount of love we have for this prophet. In India in the recent times muslims took to the streets with christians to ban the DaVinchi code http://in.rediff.com/movies/2006/may/17sfa.htm
so to sit there and think that muslims are not offended when jesus is attacked is just ignorance of the truth.  As for burning cars well some people take things to an extreme and unfortunately sometimes you cant help that, it only takes one in a crowd to get caos.

QuoteJesus was killed by men, not by His own hand. You're welcome to blaspheme Jesus all you want.
It's Jesus you will be answering to:

Is it not you that say that jesus came to die for my sins? Come on lets put logic here, when I sacrifice a lamb for my sins, my intentions were to kill the lamb for my sins and thus if god accepts it the sins are forgiven.  You say men killed jesus were their intentions to kill this man for the sins of the world? Answer to that is NO.  So for your statement to be true it would be that the people killing jesus would have wanted him to be an eternal sacrifice.  But if jesus was murdered then he was not murderd for sins of mankind.
See the trick that you will play with this is you will never use one or the other word when you tell me what you believe.  You will never say jesus commited suicide for my sins, nor will you say jesus was murdered for my sins, and I know you may decide to play politics on this one about the murder, so then the follow up question is who murdered him for my sins? Because all I know is the jews killed him for blasphemy.

QuoteMuslims have been deluded into believing they are. Mohammedans follow the false prophet Mohamed.

Of course the bible warned us of such:

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Why don't you read the full context of this verse?

Quote15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Now I ask have you applied this to Muhmamad? Tell me is the forbidding of alcohol which stops many of societies ills which includes fornication is this a bad fruit (if not this is one fruit which according to jesus is enough but lets continue) Muslims are always remembering god that atleast 5 times a day they take the time to pray to god, is this a bad fruit? Muslims are required as a part of faith to take care of the poor, is this a bad fruit? Muslims are required to fast for the sake of god, is this also a bad fruit?  According to islam that if there is anyone who is dealing unjustly with a person I am to do something about it from direct intervention to alteast feel the hurt in my heart, are you telling me that this is a bad fruit and I should see injustice to people and not say or do anything?  
SO go back and read the test that jesus gave you he said "No bad tree can bring good fruits" so what you have to tell the people that all these things are bad and it is good to drink alcohol, that is is good to not worship god, it is good to not care for the poor it is good to let your neighbors be delt with unjustly, etc� you need to tell me that and explain to me why these are bad fruits and then we can talk about Muhammad(Saw)

QuoteEven today you find that Muslims still have not a love of the truth, and prefer instead to believe a lie, even though their access to truth is so much better than those that lived in a 7th century desert.

With the access to more knowledge we can proove islam even more than we could before, like for instance from science we can determine that the universe is expanding any person with a science background just has to look at the infromation out there to know that the universe is expanding as the quran states.  Any person of science will know that the sun has an orbit, the quran tells this as well� so here we have a person who in the 7th century was able to tell us things that we didn�t even know about nor things we could determine from sitting in a cave in the desert, it is proove of it's devine nature as the quran is filled with Ayats(signs) for mankind.  Tell me what signs can I look in the bible and see it and proove to myself that it is completely from god?

It is interesting you bring up 2 Thessalonians 2:11, and I say this if it is true of god is the explaination for the crucifixion, and I will get into that a little later since I saw you said something about blood we can get into that later, but do remember you have a full understanding of this verse when we discuss the crucifixion.

QuoteThen true to form he goes on to suggest that he understands what "you Christians" believe, even though he does not have the ability to understand the things of the Spirit, nor has apparently even bothered to read the bible.

You are correct I have no idea about this spirit christians believe in, because according to jesus the spirit of truth would not come until he left, but the holy spirit was there before jesus even came on earth so this spirit of truth cannot be the holy spirit.

As for Mark 12:29 that is the same thing that Sura 112 tells us.

QuoteYou deny the only begotten Son of God. You are antichrist.

As for begotton Son of god, tell me if we go to the following verse and read it we find
Psalm 2:7 - 7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
And this is in refernce to David.  So Jesus is not the only begotten son of god, because according to your bible David was also begotten by god.  That is the first thing. And I know when I ask you what doe begotton mean you will give me the example of violence begetts violence therefore god begetts god, so I ask was it not Adam came from God? Therefore god begot Adam?  O wait all of a sudden god created adam, a man that came out of nothing and if anything that would be someone that god begot.  But you will start with Jesus was born without a father so god is the father, here lowering god to the animal function of sex.  The Quran says, god willed him into being Be and it is.  This is the power one expects from god.

[post disappeared at some point, then reconstructed from database on 7-4-2011]

My first question is the following:
Was the last name of Jesus, Christ?  The answer ofcourse is NO, so it is known that Jesus Christ really means Jesus is the Christ.  Because what is the Christ? The Christ is (in this case) the Messiah to the Jews. So to say Jesus is the Christ is infact what is ment by Jesus Christ. I agree that Deedat did not qoute the verse word for word as you want it to, but he made what the verse means clear for the listener. Also when I realized you were talking about the word for word I did apologize to you in my vidoe comments. But as I explained to you here Jesus Christ = Jesus is the Christ!
So what I want for you to do is to tell me that Jesus Christ is NOT the same meaning of Jesus is the Christ. And if that is the case tell me what does Jesus Christ translate to, was it Jesus last name?

QuoteThe bible isn't about what we wish it is, though many treat it that way.
By the same token, the Quran isn't about what you wish it is. That's why there have been over 12,000 deadly terror attacks just since 9-11.

You talk about terror attacks since 9-11, I do hope you know that this is from both sides, like for instance the lies that got us fighting in iraq.  So if you want to think of terror you have to add the terrorism of America not only muslims.


You quoted from the various translations, didn't you pay attention in the translations and see that there was a difference in one of them?  According to Yusuf Ali, the word that the others translated as Friend he translated as friends and protectors doesn�t that tell you that there is something else that you should really know?

YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.

Quote
MARRIAGE TO KAFIR is an entirely different thing. That allows the Muslim to get a foot in the door of a Christian community. Through marriage he gains CONTROL, unlike in friendships where there is mutual exchange

You claim that marriage to a woman of the book, is to get into the door of a Christian community, you have this wrong.  When I marry a woman I bring her to my home I don�t move into her house.  SO how can you think this is to get into the community to control them?

You quoted 4:34 did you not read what it is talking about?

004.034
YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

it is not to beat the wife when she is simply not obedient but where there is fear of ill conduct and disloyality so please don�t read one part of the verse and not the entire thing.


You quoted a hadith why didn�t you read the entire hadith? As you read Bukhari  72:715 you find the reason for the fighting was based on her wanting to go back to a previous husband and she also lied about him not being able to produce children.

QuoteVolume 7, Book 72, Number 715: Narrated 'Ikrima:
Rifa'a divorced his wife whereupon 'AbdurRahman bin Az-Zubair Al-Qurazi married her. 'Aisha said that the lady (came), wearing a green veil (and complained to her (Aisha) of her husband and showed her a green spot on her skin caused by beating). It was the habit of ladies to support each other, so when Allah's Apostle came, 'Aisha said, "I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes!" When 'AbdurRahman heard that his wife had gone to the Prophet, he came with his two sons from another wife. She said, "By Allah! I have done no wrong to him but he is impotent and is as useless to me as this," holding and showing the fringe of her garment, 'Abdur-Rahman said, "By Allah, O Allah's Apostle! She has told a lie! I am very strong and can satisfy her but she is disobedient and wants to go back to Rifa'a." Allah's Apostle said, to her, "If that is your intention, then know that it is unlawful for you to remarry Rifa'a unless Abdur-Rahman has had sexual intercourse with you." Then the Prophet saw two boys with 'Abdur-Rahman and asked (him), "Are these your sons?" On that 'AbdurRahman said, "Yes." The Prophet said, "You claim what you claim (i.e.. that he is impotent)? But by Allah, these boys resemble him as a crow resembles a crow,"

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/072.sbt.html
as for Muslim 2:2147 again read the entire context of the hadith yes he hit her no doubt but why did he hit her?

QuoteBook 004, Number 2127:
Muhammad b. Qais said (to the people): Should I not narrate to you (a hadith of the Holy Prophet) on my authority and on the authority of my mother? We thought that he meant the mother who had given him birth. He (Muhammad b. Qais) then reported that it was 'A'isha who had narrated this: Should I not narrate to you about myself and about the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him)? We said: Yes. She said: When it was my turn for Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) to spend the night with me, he turned his side, put on his mantle and took off his shoes and placed them near his feet, and spread the corner of his shawl on his bed and then lay down till he thought that I had gone to sleep. He took hold of his mantle slowly and put on the shoes slowly, and opened the door and went out and then closed it lightly. I covered my head, put on my veil and tightened my waist wrapper, and then went out following his steps till he reached Baqi'. He stood there and he stood for a long time. He then lifted his hands three times, and then returned and I also returned. He hastened his steps and I also hastened my steps. He ran and I too ran. He came (to the house) and I also came (to the house). I, however, preceded him and I entered (the house), and as I lay down in the bed, he (the Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O 'A'isha, that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you? She said: Whatsoever the people conceal, Allah will know it. He said: Gabriel came to me when you saw me. He called me and he concealed it from you. I responded to his call, but I too concealed it from you (for he did not come to you), as you were not fully dressed. I thought that you had gone to sleep, and I did not like to awaken you, fearing that you may be frightened. He (Gabriel) said: Your Lord has commanded you to go to the inhabitants of Baqi' (to those lying in the graves) and beg pardon for them. I said: Messenger of Allah, how should I pray for them (How should I beg forgiveness for them)? He said: Say, Peace be upon the inhabitants of this city (graveyard) from among the Believers and the Muslims, and may Allah have mercy on those who have gone ahead of us, and those who come later on, and we shall, God willing, join you.

It is good that you quoted from some person that took the true word that shows something that we will see later�

The word translated as friend is auliya which translates to friends, protectors, helpers etc so it depends on what is ment here and that is like I said as protecting friend.  Because of the fact that I can marry a woman of the book am I to hate my father in law? That is stupid if you think that way.

The Arabic words have more meanings that the words we have in English.

Like for instance Iqra is a word that means to read, recite and when the verse was revealed to the prophet he thought it ment to read, to which he said he didn�t know to read, but then later realized it ment to recite.  So you cant just take the verse as one translator has it, this is why muslims are so particular of keeping the quran in Arabic because it keeps the original for us to go back to.

As for his claim that muslims came to the west to convert people, im sorry but when my one of my great grandmothers came to the west she was kidnapped so that she can work on the sugar cane fields in the Caribbean.   My ancestors came to the west because of the british rule in India at the time.  So what this person is saying is a bunch of crap stating that we came here just to convert people.  If you want to blame anyone go blame the brittish for me being here.

Quote
Any Muslim who is not violent (secretly or openly) is hardly a real Muslim, at least not in  the Quranic sense.

From what you quoted it says that no muslim can be a practicing muslim who does not hate Christians yet the quran says:

Quote005.082
YUSUFALI: Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.

So from the quran we are told that Christians are the nearest in belief to muslims so from the quran the argument is just crap

As for sura 4:74-77 yes the best amonst the men of god would be those that lay their life down for god.  It is not an easy thing to pick up a sword and start fighting for the sake of god, to that is why god rewards it so much.

i dont know how to read greek, but from what i understand from those that do, including one of my brothers from greece, in JOhn 1:1 they claim that there are 2 words used for god in this verse, and because of it, one of the words that is used is infact a god and not God.

as for saying these verses are what makes islam fall apart how can that be so, islam does not accept the bible being intact.  and here is a simple thing, who put the bible togehter? was it jesus? was it another prophet from god? who put it together? it was the chruch and prior to them putting it together there were no protestants or any of the sorts, they were all roman christians that had a complete bible.

so to me you cant just say well because my bible says xyz it is right, you have to tell me who was the prophet that put that together, because we know jesus didnt.

QuoteYou suggested that I don't believe in the Old Testament, but no Christian would suggest that. The Old Testament began the steady revelation of God to mankind from our beginnings.

Then you must agree that the message in the OT is just as relivant for us today as it was back then when it was revealed, because the revelations of god does not change maybe altered based on certain things happening but not changed.  Like for instance eye for eye, was good in the time of moses because they were roaming but in the time of jesus they were settled so this is why we were told to turn the other cheek that was based on going from roaming to being settled.  Quran says the same thing.

QuoteMany Jews were repeatedly disobedient to God so God extended salvation to THE GENTILES - you and me - through the new covanant in Jesus Christ. That's what the New Testament is about.

I agree with this statement and I take it one step further, I say the jews changed the message of god, because they were to go out to mankind just like the muslims are doing but they made their religion a racial one.

QuoteThough Muslims are fond of proof-texting verses from back in the beginnings of mankind of 3500 years ago, in an effort to justify the imperialistic pillaging and plundering of their 7th century prophet, the Old Testament prophets laid down their swords, and suggestion of using swords in God's service, about 1500 years before Mohammed was born.

Can you show me where they layed down their swords?  You go back to their history they layed down their swords after they were concurred by the romans.

QuoteThis chapter details such things as homosexuality, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,...

As for romans 1:32 why did you start reading at 1:27 and not at 1:25 which says:

Quote25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

QuoteOut of context, there is no justifiable context for this verse at any time in the Christian era. It makes obvious that Islam teaches the opposite of God's will. Not to mention the bigotry. You may be the first Muslim that even hinted that he is not anti-Jew, in all my exchanges with Muslims.

You were able to get the quote go and read the complete context of it and you will find that the talking rocks telling where the jew is hiding is specifically for the end time prophecy.  And the main groups will be the anti Christ and his army of jews, and jesus and his army of muslims.  So go back to where you got the quote from in the original source and read it carefully.  It is specifically in the end time battle.  As for my love for jews, I love them and respect them they are my elder brothers in faith, I do believe they deny the messiah falsely which makes them deny Muhammad as well.  I think you have misunderstood the muslims you spoke to, muslims do not hate JEWS what they hate is ZIONISTS who happen to be mainly jews.  And unfortunately people generalize, just like you did with muslims and the comments.  Every muslim if they are true muslims feel the pain of the Palestinians, so because of this when you are upset you talk in general terms which is wrong but we are human so take that up with god.  So just so this never comes up again, muslims don't hate jews, we hate Zionists..

QuoteMatthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

See the difference?

Yes I see the difference, but what is sura 8 talking about, it is talking about when I a battle, as for matthew, you know full well that as Christians you would not be here today if you followed this, your very life here today depended on someone killing for your sake.  You appreciate what you have why do you forget what was given for you to have it.  Islam is complete in the matters of disputes, first you try to be diplomatic if that does not work then you fight for peace.  And as I said in my video this is talking about in a battle, can you imagine that the American Christian army goes into battle in iraq and instead of fighting go and give tea to the enemy? That is stupid advice if you are fighting for peace (of course I believe the war in iraq was based on a lie and for that bush should be impeached but that is just me)

QuoteBut pretending this is limited to the 7th century ignores the history of Islamic slaughter of Jews and Christians.

You misunderstand me, I know we killed some jews and Christians there is no doubt, but jews and Christians also killed muslims, even today they are, look at the state of iraq, there was peace in that country prior to the invasion of the Christian nations, you have Christians fighting in helicopter and muslims fighting on foot, and still the msulims are being called cowards ok that is off topic and I promised I would keep myself out of politics.  My point is that for a time jews fled to muslim lands and preferred to be ruled by muslims because Christians were killing them for killing their god, so don't forget the entire history.

QuoteHere's an example of Islam being involved in the WW2 genocide up to it's eyeballs:

I have no problem with muslims being involved there, do you kown why? Because England had their hands in muslim lands, so why not be involved in the side that will potentially get your enemy out of your lands?

Quote3 year old calls Jews apes and pigs:

So what? Her perents didn't teach her what is right or they themselves were not taught what was right, you cant sit here and tell me that you don't think what the Zionist jews are doing is completely right.  The fled a genocide in germany and now they are commiting acts of genocide on Palestinians (Christian, muslim and jew palestininas)  if you are ok with this you really need to check your conditioning.

As for the other videos the title were not enough for me to make a comment and I don't have the time at this point to watch them.

You first tell me:

QuoteYou are taking it personally rather than the fact on it's own merit.

Then tell me:

QuoteAnd there are far more Muslim censors than Christian.

Isn't that your personal opinion rather than a fact? Was there a study done on this that prove this is as you say?  So this is in my opinion a double standard like I said before.

QuoteBut you are trying to understand God in human terms. Even Islam teaches that you can't do that.
This is the approach of Muslims almost universally have. I think it is because of sophists like Deedat.
I have to go by the Word of God. I believe what it says.

You can't find God with your head. You have to use your heart, and the wide open eyes of a child:
Luk 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

The outline I gave you on god can you deny this is what you want me to believe? Can you deny that first god set up rules and regulations that define what sins are, can you deny that your belief says god came to die for the sins of men for what ever reason it was? Don�t tell me I am putting it in human terms im putting it in the best logic I can put my finger on.  As for the words of god, I agree we follow them but what are the words of god, you say the bible I say the quran, we will discuss this later

QuoteNo it is the Muslim "martyr" that commits suicide by blowing himself up in a bus load of Jewish school children. Jesus WAS KILLED by men. Crucified.
You are simply making excuses to yourself to continue to allow yourself to deny Him.

First of suicide is forbidden in islam so a muslim that kills himself is not a martyr.  You say jesus was killed, then how can you say that jesus died for the sins of men? He was killed and the intention of his killers were not for our sins.  Your belief says that jesus came into the world to die, is that not what you believe?  Crucified, hang, injected what ever method of death he took is it not that you believe he came on earth to die?  If that is the case what is the distinction of killing him and he just dieing. I am not making excuses for denying him, you are� you believe when it is convenient.  Here is a typical conversion message �
God sent is only son to die for you and my sins, don�t deny him he was crucified on the cross for our sins.  And the son is god as the father is god.

Then when I say he came on earth to commit suicide you get offended, why? Wasn�t it his purpose on earth to die for our sins as you claim?  If jesus� purpose was not to come on earth to die (commit suicide) then it is proof that you believe the wrong thing because he was killed as you said.(I ofcourse don�t believe he died but that is a different topic.)

PS. Thanks for offering to help

See where i have an issue is when i am singled out, as a muslim your video attacks me, not a christian that does the same thing with the comments, like i said i have had teh same thing happen to me, so to attack muslims to say that we are the only ones doing it because our doctrine does not stand up in my opinion is just as sad because your people do the same.

i would apreciate you take that part of the vidoe you create out, or add that christians do the same thing in the video, because you cannot attack us like we are the only ones doing this thing.  fair is fair, i like fair grounds.

as for the death of jesus, you see here is where the problem is,

God defined sin
God holds us against this defination
and you believe this same god decided to kill himself because he didnt like his rules that is where to me your doctrine makes absolutely no sense.

as for the matrs taking 70 people of their choosing to heaven there is no issue with that, because that is a gift god granted them for their acts of courage.

but that is not the same thing with jesus you are telling me that God HAD to commit suicide for my sins to be forgiven.  yet it is believed that a person who commits suicide will go directly to hell.

if you read the passage carefully you see why he curses those people, it is because they ascribe partners to god, that is why god does not like partners being ascribed to him.  it is as plain and simple as that.  there are jews and christians(a small section of them) that do not believe that god has children.

we can chat here no problem, however i need to be leaving now but post your questions and when i get back i will answer them.  i should be back by about 12 or so my time it is now 9:30