Author Topic: DID HAGAR FLEE TO MECCA? (Hajar, Makkah)  (Read 9243 times)

Peter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 8702
  • the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God
    • View Profile
    • False Prophet Muhammad
DID HAGAR FLEE TO MECCA? (Hajar, Makkah)
« on: March 16, 2010, 03:11:46 PM »
As mentioned frequently in here Abraham threw Hagar and Ishmael out at Sarah's request because of Ishmael's mocking of Isaac.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=534.msg2100#msg2100

New web page http://www.petewaldo.com/hagar_ishmael.htm

(map locating the wilderness of Paran) http://www.bible.ca/archeology/bible-archeology-exodus-route-wilderness-of-paran.htm

Bolding in text below is Pete's

DID HAGAR FLEE TO MECCA?

By Dr. Rafat Amari - "Islam in the Light of History" page 97-100

Hagar went with Ishmael to live in the Wilderness of Paran, but was the city of Mecca even in Paran as Muslims claim?

Muslims claim that the temple at Mecca was built by Abraham and Ishmael. They also claim that from the time of Abraham, Mecca has been a famous center of monotheistic Arabian religion which continued throughout history until Mohammed was born. We want to discuss these claims in light of the Bible and of history.

When Ishmael was a child, Abraham sent away Ishmael and his mother, Hagar. The bible says Ishmael and Hagar, Abraham's Egyptian servant, went to the wilderness. The Bible doesn't say they went to the heart of Arabia. Here's what we read about Ishmael in Chapter 21, verse 20, of the book of Genesis

Gen 21:20 And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer.

We are told the name of the wilderness in the following verse.

21 And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt.

Paran is close to the border of Egypt. Numbers 10.12 refers to that location as it describes the journey Moses and the people of Israel took as they wandered in the wilderness after God delivered them from Egypt:

Numbers 10:12 And the children of Israel took their journeys out of the wilderness of Sinai; and the cloud rested in the wilderness of Paran.

It is clear from this verse that Paran is part of Sinai. It's the closest wilderness to the Mount of Sinai. When some Islamic writers read in the Bible that Ishmael lived in the Wilderness of Paran, they try to convince their followers, called Muslims, that Paran is Mecca. But the bible is clear. It identifies Paran as part of Sinai, close to Mount Sinai.
_______________________

Pete map addition. I believe the consensus today is that Mt. Sinai is where pictured on the maps below, rather than the southern Sinai peninsula as was formerly believed.
(map) http://www.bible.ca/archeology/bible-archeology-exodus-route-wilderness-of-paran.htm





More traditional location puts Paran in northern Sinai
http://bibleatlas.org/regional/paran.htm



end Pete addition
____________________

The book of Numbers specifies the location of the Wilderness of Paran. It is not south of Mount Sinai, but north of it, and very close to the border of South Palestine. When Moses sent spies into the Promised Land, he had his men depart on their journey from the Wilderness of Paran, because it was the closest part of Sinai to the cities of Palestine. In the first three verses of the thirteenth chapter of the book of Numbers, we read:

Numbers 13:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Send thou men, that they may search the land of Canaan, which I give unto the children of Israel: of every tribe of their fathers shall ye send a man, every one a ruler among them. 3 And Moses by the commandment of the LORD sent them from the wilderness of Paran: all those men [were] heads of the children of Israel.

In verse 22 of the same Chapter, the spies entered Hebron, the main city of South Canaan. This demonstrates clearly that Paran was part of Sinai, which is on the border of South Canaan. Not only in Numbers, but other verses from the bible confirm the location of Paran.

In the first verse of the book of Deuteronomy we read

Deu 1:1 These [be] the words which Moses spake unto all Israel on this side Jordan in the wilderness, in the plain over against the Red [sea], between Paran, and Tophel, and Laban, and Hazeroth, and Dizahab.

This shows that Paran is between the River of Jordan and the south border of Canaan. Its proximity to the south of Israel made it a refuge place for those persecuted by the kings of Israel. In fact, because Paran is on the border of Israel, closer to Hebron and to other southern cities of Israel, David went to Paran when Samuel died, as we read in 1Samuel 25.1.

Because of Paran's location, it is no wonder Ishmael could easily participate with Isaac in the funeral of their father, Abraham, as we are told in Genesis 25.9

Gen 25:9 And his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, which [is] before Mamre;

The cave of Machpelah is in Hebron, located about 1,000 miles from the place where Mecca was built in the 4th century A.D. If Paran were in the heart of Arabia, as Muslims claim, it would have taken Ishmael four months to reach Hebron. Burial laws and weather conditions required Abraham to be buried the same day as his death. To make it in time for the funeral, it is clear that Ishmael must have been living in Paran near Hebron, which was indeed at the border of Canaan.

However, Muslim tradition found a way to explain the travel problem. Aware of the huge distance between Mecca and the area where Abraham lived in Canaan, Tradition says that a Baraq, which is a camel with two wings, carried Abraham from Hebron to Mecca. There, they say, Abraham visited Ishmael. It is interesting to me that Islamic tradition tries to resolve this huge distance problem with a winged camel. This mythological creature is not new to literature. The winged camel was used in Persian mythology before the time of Mohammed...Previously, I mentioned the winged camel. We find it in Persian Zoroastrian mythology. The Pahlavi Texts of the book of Dinkard are Zoroastrian canonical comments on the Avesta, considered part of the Zoroastrian scriptures. It mentioned KaiKhusrois, a mythological prophet who transformed Vae, the god of the air, into the shape of a camel. He then mounted him and went where the immortal mythological Persians dwelt. According to the same chapter of Dinkard, the Kai-Khusrois would return to revive and establish the Zoroastrian religion over all the earth.1 So we can see that the winged camel is the glorious transportation vehicle to carry and ensure the movements of the champion prophets of Zoroastrianism, as they moved toward heaven and other places hidden in the extremity of the earth and the universe. Later, Mohammed claimed he mounted the same Persian mythological Baraq to go to heaven. Islamic tradition, as we saw previously, used the winged camel to bring Abraham from Canaan to this unknown desert place. Many other events in the Bible show that Ishmael continued to live out his entire life in Paran."

http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=paran&t=KJV

Peter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 8702
  • the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God
    • View Profile
    • False Prophet Muhammad
Re: DID HAGAR FLEE TO MECCA?
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2010, 07:23:58 AM »
According to many hadith writers, Mohammed himself prohibited any tracing of his genealogy past the 17th generation. This is one reason that Ibn-Ishak was considered by the Muslim scholars of his time as being guilty of forgery and fabricating false genealogies.

"Long before Ibn Ishak (8th century), Muslims who lived in Mohammed's own time also fabricated genealogies in an attempt to connect Mohammed to the descendants of Ishmael. Mohammed, himself rejected all of those false genealogies, and he put limits regarding the genealogy of his ancesters. Regarding Mohammed's own rejection of the false genealogies, Amru bin al-As wrote

'Mohammed genealogized himself regarding his ancestors until he reached al-Nather bin Kinaneh, then he said "anyone who claimed otherwise or added further ancestors, HAS LIED.'"

So their own prophet calls Muslims liars for trying to trace Mohammed's roots back farther than al-Nather bin Kinaneh.

Peter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 8702
  • the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God
    • View Profile
    • False Prophet Muhammad
Re: DID HAGAR FLEE TO MECCA?
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2010, 02:00:56 PM »
bump