Author Topic: "... this is Arabic pure and clear ..."  (Read 4529 times)

Peter

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"... this is Arabic pure and clear ..."
« on: July 27, 2010, 08:15:52 AM »
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=452.0

The following excerpted from the following link. The whole article is very informative. Best to read it there.
http://prophetofdoom.net/Quotes_Overview.aspx

"There are many reasons Islamic clerics are sensitive about having the Qur'an translated into a contemporary language. The most important are that they don't want anyone to know what it actually says or how poorly it's written, but we'll get to that in a moment. Muslims claim that Arabic was Allah's original tongue and that translations are simply paraphrases. But that would make Allah younger than man because Arabic  is one of man's most recent dialects. Its written form didn't emerge until the 7th century. And most every important religious word, concept, and name used in the Qur'an was derived from Syriac, the language of Syrian Christians in the 6th century.

Muslims invest a quarter of their school day learning to recite the Qur'an - not reading it or understanding it. They simply learn to mouth its sounds in the arcane, inadequate, and odd dialect of Religious Arabic. That way they can be fooled into believing that it's "God's Book," and that it's written intelligently. Ignorant, they can be indoctrinated and thus manipulated by clerics and kings. Even turned into human bombs when it serves Islam's interests.

If Muslims were to shed their yoke of ignorance, they would discover that the real reason those who indoctrinate them, control them, suppress them, fleece them, and abuse them want them deceived is that the actual message contained in Allah's Book is horrendous. It is more intolerant, racist, punitive, and violent than Hitler's Mein Kampf. There are one hundred vicious verses for every nice one. The book inspires infinitely more terror than peace.

They would also discover that the Qur'an is poorly written. There are countless meaningless words, foreign words, and missing words which is why translations differ so significantly-everyone is guessing as to what Muhammad thought Allah was trying to say. This is why Gerd Puin, the world's leading specialist in Arabic calligraphy and Qur'anic paleography, studying the oldest manuscripts, speaks with disdain about the willingness of Muslims and non-Muslims alike, to accept Islamic dogma. He says: "The Qur'an claims for itself that it is "mubeen," or clear, but if you just look at it, you will see that every fifth sentence or so simply doesn't make sense. Many Muslims will tell you otherwise, but the fact is that a fifth of the Qur'an is just incomprehensible. This is what has caused the traditional anxiety regarding translation. If the Qur'an is not comprehensible, if it can't even be understood in Arabic, then it's not translatable into any language. That is why Muslims are afraid."

By reading the Qur'an in a language they actually understand, Muslims would find that there is no semblance of order in the central book of Islam either. The Qur'an is a jumbled mess without context, chronology, or rational transitions. It is only by rearranging the Qur'an in the order it was revealed and infusing it with the context of the chronological Hadith narratives, that the book begins to make sense. But by so doing, it becomes obvious that the Qur'an was simply a reflection of Muhammad's demented character and of his misplaced ambition. The more you know, the more you will come to despise the fraud Muhammad perpetrated on his fellow Arabs and they on human kind. To know the Qur'an is to reject Islam.

The documented references in "Muhammad's Own Words" were derived from English translations of ancient Islamic manuscripts. The Sirat Rasul Allah by Ibn Ishaq, circa 750 A.D., was edited and abridged by Ibn Hisham in 830 and translated by Alfred Guillaume under the title, The Life of Muhammad in 1955 by Oxford Press. The History of al-Tabari was written by Muhammad bin al-Tabari between 870 and 920 A.D. His work was translated and published in 1987-97 by S.U.N.Y. Press. I quote from volumes I, II, VI, VII, VIII, and IX. Al-Bukhari's Hadith, titled: Sahih Al-Bukhari-The True Traditions was collected by Imam Bukhari in 850 A.D. I have used the collector's original nomenclature. The following Qur'an translations were blended and amplified: Ahmed Ali, Pikthal, Noble by Muhsin Khan, Yusuf Ali, and Shakir.

This appendix is not designed to replace the book. It is an aid for those who have read the book. Every quotation is presented chronologically in Prophet of Doom within the context of Muhammad's life. They are reviewed in juxtaposition to their adjacent passages. Finding the page upon which a Hadith from Ishaq or Tabari is covered is thus relatively simple since their authors observed a strict chronology. The higher the page number or volume, the later you'll find the reference in Prophet of Doom. But the Qur'an isn't as logical. So if you want to review its surahs within the context of chronology, place, circumstance, and adjacency, you'll have to use the Index and turn to the chapter in which the specific surah is presented.

Some of these quotes have been abridged so that non-topical material doesn't clutter the subject. Most of my explanatory comments have been removed and thus I strongly encourage you to read Prophet of Doom prior to using the appendix."

Peter

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Re: "... this is Arabic pure and clear ..."
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2010, 08:21:54 AM »
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=452.0

Inspiration of the Quran

Amazingly, even some of today's Muslims look upon Mohammed's illiteracy as some sort of miracle. To non-Muslims illiteracy is usually a reflection of someone's mental incapacity or lack of education. Certainly a far cry from the very literate prophets and apostles that wrote the Gospel over 6 centuries earlier.
How those men died:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4rtYAO3UxA
In stark contrast to those men:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG1MiLqH0jc
The Word of God
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/gospel_of_john.htm

But the fact that Mohammed was illiterate certainly didn't mean he was blind and deaf. He traveled a lot in his first wife's business and also with his uncle as a child, so there was no lack of exposure. Later on he was surrounded by many that knew about Judaism and Christianity including wives and concubines.

"From a number of Islamic books we gather that Mohammed was surrounded by many Christians - even if nominal. One of them was Waraqa ibn Naufal, the cousin of Khadija, Mohammed's wife. One of his wives, Umm Habbibah, was formerly the wife of a Christian, Ubaidu'llah ibn Jahsh. Another wife of Mohammed, Miriam, and her sister, Sirin, were Christian slaves given to Muhammad. Biographer Ibn Ishaq records that Abdu'llah ibn Salam (one of the bestt reciters of the Qur'an) was a seasoned Jewish Rabbi before he became a Muslim and personal friend of Muhammad." (Anatomy of the Quran by G.J.O. Moshay)

But perhaps the most valuable source of Mohammed's rehashed Jewish and Arabic fables and pseudo-Christian suras was a friend of his named Jabr. An ex"Christian" that converted to Islam. Indeed so often did Mohammed have a "revelation" after meeting with his friend Jabr that the local nickname in jest for Jabr became "holy spirit". It would seem that so embarrassed was Mohammed, by the ribbing he was taking, that damage control required yet another sura.

"The Jabr Connection

Again quoting Moshay:

Sura 16.103 We know indeed that they say, "It is a man that teaches him." The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is Arabic, pure and clear.

The "man that teaches him" is a young "Christian" friend of Muhammad called Jabr, whom Muhammad always visited at Marwah Quraters, not too far from his house. The allegation was that when Muhammad visited Jabr and heard the stories of the Bible, some were put on record. People believed that Muhammad usually presented these parchments and claimed he had received them hot from heaven through the angel Gabriel.

Muhammad refuted this strong allegation through another "revelation" from "Gabriel." The defense was that since Jabr was of "a foreign tongue" (he was not an Arab by birth), he could not have taught Muhammad anything. But it does not matter if Jabr was a non-Arab. Since he had stayed long in Arabia, he could have known Arabic very well and related his stories to Muhammad in good Arabic. How could Jabr be a close friend of Muhammad (if he did not understand Arabic) since Muhammad did not understand any other language? We must realize too that Muhammad's main Secretary was a Jew. According to Muslim writer Muhammad Haykall, Muhammad...

'...had chosen him (the Secretary) for his capacity to write letters in Hebrew and Syriac as well as Arabic. After the evacuation of Jews from Madinah, the Prophet no longer trusted a non-muslim to write his letters.'

That means, too, that the Jewish background of Jabr could not be a plausible reason why he couldn't have helped Muhammad in his collection of what is now called the Qur'an. If Muhammad's own Secretary was of "a foreign tougue" and yet well versed in Arabic, Syriac and his own Hebrew language, then it is not inconceivable to get Hebrew scriptures and literature interpreted and translated into Arabic by the Secretary. Since the Secretary was such a brilliant fellow and was versatile in these three languages, therefore, the alleged brilliance of the language of the Qur'an is not a necessary and sufficient proof of heavenly authorship. Rather, it can be a reflection of the brilliance of Jabr, since Muhammad is believed to have been illiterate." (Anatomy of the Quran by G.J.O. Moshay)

Regarding Mohammed's claim of "pure Arabic" there are over 100 non-Arabic words in Persian, Syriac, Hebrew, old Egyptian, Assyrian and Greek. So even Mohammed's claimed "proof" in the above sura is untrue. Even the word for "Gospel", Injil, is a Syriac word.
__________________

From a website:
"Ibn Ishaq also provides some detail. (in page180)

"According to my information the apostle used often to sit at al-Marwa at the booth of a young Christian called Jabr (2), a slave of B. al-Hadrami and they used to say "The one who teaches Muhammad most of what he brings is Jabr the Christian, slave of the B. al-Hadrami." Then God revealed in reference to their words "We well know that they say, "Only a mortal teaches him"."

Quran 25:5
And they say: "Tales of the ancients, which he has caused to be written: and they are dictated before him morning and evening." "

Search Sura 16 103 "jabr"

"On Plagiarism

The influences noted above are not just in hearing stories and having them jotted down as revelations. There are hints of outright plagioarism identified by scholars. But, interestingly, we have a serious challenge concerning the sacredness and originality of the Qur'an:

'And if you are in doubt as to which We (allah) have revealed to Our servant (Muhammad), then produce a chapter like it, and call on your helper, besides Allah, if you are truthful.'

Most Arabs were illiterate at that time. Moreover, many of the original works from which Arabs could have discovered the sources of the Qur'an material were in foreign languages. Informed scholars now laugh at such a challenge since clear evidence now exists to establish outright plagiarism in the Qura'an. We will now cite a few of these.

It has been established that verses 1, 29, 31 and 46 of Sura 54 (Surat al-Qamar) were lifted from a poem of a pre-Islamic Arabic poet, Imraul Qais. Even at the time of Muhammad, some sneered at the challenge to 'produce a chapter like it.' For example the poe Imraul Qais' daughter was still alive when Muhammad started his religion. One day this lady was listening to Muhammad reciting the 'revelations' he had just received hot from heaven from his Angel Jubril. She recognized the verses from her father's poems, and stoood aghast and amused, wondering how these could be a revelation written by Alland and preserved in the 'Preserved Tablet' in heaven from before the creation of the world!

Another time, this lady met Fatima, Muhammad's daughter, reciting the first verse of Surat Qamar. Qais' daughter said:

'Oh that is what your father has taken from my father's poems ('Mollaqat') and calls it something that has come down fto him from heaven!'

If the original works of a secular Arab poet could be seen in the Qur'an, then it is scarcely of any use to maintain the claim that the Qur'an is so wonderful that the most learned Arab or even a spirit could not produce it's kind." (Anatomy of the Quran by G.J.O. Moshay)

Sura 19:28 "O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!" 29 But she pointed to the babe. They said: "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?" 30 He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet;

Jesus speaking as an infant was lifted from an Egyptian apocryphal fable written in Egypt titled "First Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ":
"...Jesus spake even when he was in the cradle, and said: 'Mary, I am Jesus the son of God. That word which thou didst bring forth according to the declaration of the angel..."

Portions of the preceding from "Anatomy of the Quran" by G.J.O. Moshay
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=410.0

Peter

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Re: "... this is Arabic pure and clear ..."
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2010, 10:03:22 AM »
http://www.vistawide.com/arabic/arabic.htm
"Arabic, which was originally a minor language of the Arabian Peninsula, began to spread in the 7th century with the rise of Islam. Apart from being the native language of over 200 million speakers located primarily in Northern Africa and throughout the Middle East, Arabic is therefore also the liturgical language of the vast population of Muslims around the world."

http://www.indiana.edu/~arabic/arabic_history.htm
"The rise of Arabic to the status of a major world language is inextricably intertwined with the rise of Islam as a major world religion. Before the appearance of Islam, Arabic was a minor member of the southern branch of the Semitic language family, used by a small number of largely nomadic tribes in the Arabian peninsula, with an extremely poorly documented textual history."

http://www.soyouwanna.com/history-arabic-language-1143.html
"Prior to the revelation to the prophet Mohammad and the subsequent spread of Arabic as the language of the new religion of Islam, Arabic paled as a linguistic power in comparison to Latin, Greek and other languages of the time."

"Like all other Semitic languages, Arabic is the descendant of a so-called "Proto-Semitic" language, which is currently believed to have developed in East Africa and which never evolved in a written form. Arabic and Amharic, the two most recent Semitic languages, both arose in the mid-300s."

http://www.alhewar.com/habeeb_salloum_arabic_language.htm
"The Arabic language is the youngest of Semitic idioms which include Aramaic, the Assyro-Babylonian tongues, Ethiopic, Hebrew and South Arabic like Sabean and Himyaritic."

Simply Google it if you have been deluded into believing that Arabic is an ancient language.


Peter

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Re: "... this is Arabic pure and clear ..."
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2010, 03:01:43 PM »
http://prophetofdoom.net/Prophet_of_Doom_05_Can_Qusayy_Scam.Islam

"Can Qusayy Scam?

"Qusayy purchased the custodianship of the Ka'aba for a skin full of wine and a lute."

"In the greatest story ever told, Abram became Abraham, father of nations. He sired Ishmael at ninety by way of his wife's Egyptian maid and in so doing Abraham gave birth to the seed of Islam. A decade later, the centenarian witnessed the promised miracle birth of Isaac to Sarai, now Sarah. Isaac became the child of destiny, for through him would come all of the prophets and patriarchs: Jacob, Joshua, Moses, David, Solomon, Isaiah, Daniel, Jeremiah, and two millennia later, Yahshua, also known as Jesus of Nazareth. This Biblical story was destined to play out in the crossroads of history, in the most contested land on earth, at the very intersection of continents.

Yet these great dramas depicting the rise of civilizations and faiths simply teased the Arabians. The footprints of culture, science, language, religion, law, and the arts were blown away by the searing winds. The Chaldeans, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans all intertwined their histories with Abraham's descendants through Isaac, but not Ishmael. It was as if the Arabs were on a deserted island, marooned in time. Such was the milieu for Islam, a religion so sterile it could only have taken root in a like mind and place.

Arabs remained illiterate throughout the millennia, which is why we know so little about them. And it is why they knew so little about the world that engulfed them. Their language was derived from Aramaic, the dominant tongue of history's initial millennia. But Arabic found neither stylus nor pen for one hundred generations. By Muhammad's time, less than one in a hundred Arabians could write. Classical Arabic, the language in which the Qur'an would come to be written, was just beginning to evolve in Syria.

The Bedouins of the Syrian steppe were nomadic by necessity. Their land was too poor to support towns of substance. Arabs, (a name derived from the word arid) were tribal peoples; there was never a dominant civilization over them. Most attempts to conquer their Peninsula were foiled by the harsh environmental conditions, further exacerbating the challenge of knowing these people. For three thousand years they were neither conquered nor conquerors, for subduing Bedouins was like herding cats. The Babylonians, Assyrians, Egyptians, Persians, Greeks, and Romans all failed. But it was not because Arabs were savage. They coveted freedom and valued nonviolence. For the first three millennia of recorded history, Arabs were among the world's most peaceful and self-reliant people. It is only during the last 1,400 years that they have been terrorists. The dividing line was Islam. Muhammad corrupted them.

Islamic scholars try valiantly to paint the pre-Islamic period, called Jahiliyyah, or Period of Ignorance, in the worst possible light. They demonize Arabs to make the resulting Islamic society, arguably the most ignorant and brutal in history, look good by comparison. But what little evidence we have of these people, their lives, and customs, indicates that they didn't act foolishly. Unlike their descendants in the twenty-first century, seventh-century Arabs were a free, peace-loving people who cherished family values and honored tribal commitments.

Reliant on springs, most nomadic Bedouins provided sustenance by cultivating date palms, herding sheep, working leather, or running caravans. Their parched land was known for scrub, the hearty camel, and wide-open spaces. With the rain clouds blocked by the ragged mountains of Syria, Israel, Jordan, and western Arabia, more often than not the harbingers of life merely teased the land that became Muhammad's.

It was these very conditions that made it impregnable. The roads that enabled the armies of Babylon, Assyria, Persia, Egypt, Greece, and Rome to conquer and control much of the world were difficult to build and impossible to maintain. And there was no incentive. Virtually nothing of value originated from this barren realm. It only served as a dry ocean to be crossed when carrying goods from producer to consumer. But since the Arabian Peninsula was surrounded by seas and the most vital of rivers, circumnavigating it was always easier than passing through. The land Muhammad coveted was a foreboding wasteland, a place that time had forgotten."

Much, much more
http://prophetofdoom.net/Prophet_of_Doom_05_Can_Qusayy_Scam.Islam