Censorship at Wikipedia - "Bakkah" example via Tiamut

[Peter]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakkah

Wikipedia has become a propaganda tool for anti-Israeli and Jew hating individuals as well as Muhammad's followers, at the obvious expense of the truth, let alone the time and trouble others invest in helping with Wikipedia articles. One example is a "Palestinian" (i.e. Jordanian or some other actual nationality) that goes by the name "Tiamut" who removed my entire, several point, contribution to a Wikipedia article without listing specifics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bakkah#Putting_this_here_for_now

This, in order to advance the preposterous suggestion that the Valley of Baca in the Old Testament - regarding a place that Yahweh's people passed through while on a pilgrimage to the temple He had them build on the temple mount in Zion/Jerusalem - has something to do with Mecca that was settled in the 4th century AD, and the unsymmetrical kaaba rock pile the Quraish pagans cobbled together in the early 5th century AD, for Arabian moon, sun, star and jinn devil worship.
http://www.petewaldo.com/baca_mecca.htm
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj_umrah.htm

The ruse Tiamut used to remove my contribution is
"The subsections below were in the article but I removed them because they are primary sourced OR. Some of it might be saved if secondary sources can be found. But its not clearly written anyway and should probably be redone from scratch. Tiamuttalk 18:34, 21 August 2011 (UTC)"

Just as Muslims cannot converse in specifics, neither can they be specific when they censor the work of others, because their lies are so easily exposed. The claim...

"...are primary sourced OR. Some of it might be saved if secondary sources can be found."

...is an outright lie since the bibliography to the sources I used all contain footnotes, to the secondary sources that were used by the authors I quoted. The rest were from scripture (KJV), which the original article pretended to use to support it's foolish nonsense.

The lie became even more apparent when Tiamut chose to remove my labor because in his personal opinion "....its not clearly written anyway and should probably be redone from scratch." Which, even if he wasn't lying, personal opinion is not an acceptable reason to censor content from Wikipedia, let alone remove a whole section with multiple parts, without a single specific.

As many times as I would bother to replace the material, it would be removed again by this antichrist censor.
Typical of the whole of Muhammadan so-called "tradition" the article pretends to be about history from hundreds of years before the Christian era, yet the only historical reference in the whole article from that period, is the scripture they partially quoted, while removing the most germane verse!
Most of the rest is from the preposterous Muhammadan 7th century CREATED historical FICTION that they are stuck labeling "tradition", that was all manufactured and put to the pen in the 7th and 8th centuries AD by a bunch of semi-literate SW Arabian desert dwellers, that masquerades as thousands of years of pre-6th century Muhammadan history.

This is the censoring "Palestinian's" home page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Tiamut

Yet Wikipedia allows the likes of a propagandist like Tiamut free reign to post any amount of falsehood that they please, while censoring the truth posted by others, within the pages of Wikipedia.

I decided that since Google and Yahoo searches put the truth closely behind the Wikipedia lie in a search of - baca - leaving the Wikipedia nonsense may be constructive for showing Muhammadans, and others, the ridiculous lies and preposterous lengths that Muhammad's followers will go through, in order to pretend Muhammadanism has something to do with the God of the Bible. This as well as so clearly demonstrating, that Wikipedia itself, is steadily becoming the lie of Islam.

There used to be rafts of YouTubes uploaded by Muhammad's followers with this same ridiculous Baca=Mecca claim, but most of those parrots had the good sense to take them down after suffering the personal embarrassment, of having just a comment or two on their video expose the Muhammadan lie, while revealing the truth of the scriptures.

Muhammad's bible-ignorant followers picked this nonsense up from their famous Greek sophist styled entertainer, and consummate lying antichrist, Ahmed Deedat, who played on their ignorance of scripture.
___________________________________

I replaced the material that was removed without specifics and posted the reason in "discussion".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bakkah#Censorship

Censorship

As a reason to remove the majority of this Wikipedia article Tiamut said: "The subsections below were in the article but I removed them because they are primary sourced OR. Some of it might be saved if secondary sources can be found. But its not clearly written anyway and should probably be redone from scratch. Tiamut 18:34, 21 August 2011 (UTC)"

If people are allowed to remove giant sections of Wikipedia articles under spurious pretenses, without listing individual specifics, Wikipedia will be left as little more than a propaganda machine for folks who wish to censor content simply because they don't like it.

In this case, an article with a concept that suggests it is occurs in scripture, cannot then ban footnote references to the scripture it claims as support for being "primary sources", simply because that scripture happens to invalidate the notion that the Baca in scripture is a reference to Mecca located 1200 kilometers away.

If Tiamut had visited just one of the links he removed to Dr. Rafat Amari's articles, and had scrolled to the bottom, he would have found 82 footnotes to secondary sources in the "The History and Archaeology of Arabia Show That Mecca Did Not Exist Before the Advent of Christianity" article, as well similar extensive footnoting in the article "Studies by Classical Writers Show That Mecca Could Not Have Been Built Before the 4th Century".

After offering the first unsupported reason, Tiamut then went on to suggest that he should remove content because, in his personal opinion, "But its not clearly written anyway...", again without specifics. Is this the way the Wikipedia community wants articles edited? Large chunks of Wikipedia articles removed simply because someone personally doesn't care for the way something is written? Why not allow removal articles entirely, any time a person personally doesn't understand the subject? Tiamut's changes exhibit, more than anything, thoughtless and reckless disregard for the work of others.

Tiamut, please list your specifics for each item you desire to remove, and then enter it in the discussion section. (PeterWaldo (talk) 15:10, 7 September 2011 (UTC)) — Preceding unsigned comment added by PeterWaldo (talk • contribs) 14:46, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

To which he replied. I will exegete his spurious reply using the quote function.

Please read WP:V, WP:RS, WP:OR, and WP:SYNTH.

None of which supported his accusations against my posts.

All of the information I removed either relies solely only a primary source (the Bible or the Qur'an), or cites a secondary source,

Here the guy contradicts himself by falsely claiming I relied "solely" on a primary source, while at the same time he admits that I also included secondary sources. Which I did, of course to reinforce my point.

like Dr. Rafat Amari, who is not even discussing Bakkah or Baca, but instead is discussing Mecca and its history.

But the history of Mecca IS THE SUBJECT of the article, with it even making the preposterous suggestion that Mecca was mentioned in the historical account of Pslams 84.

He is cited to make a synthesized argument that Mecca cannot be Baca because it did not exist before the 4th century (i.e. he does not make this conclusion as he is not discussing this subject).

Not synthesizing but presenting HISTORICAL EVIDENCE that FURTHER supported my view that the article is ridiculous. Since there is not a shred of EVIDENCE that suggests Mecca existed before the 4th century AD, it sure as heck didn't exist over a thousand years before, when Psalm 84 was penned. Nothing could be more on topic and relevant, other than the verse that was censored in the Wikipedia article, in the passage itself which exposes the whole preposterous lie that is being advanced.

I am going to remove the information once again, PeterWaldo. When you decide you want to reintroduce it, please do so item by item citing reliable secondary sources that actually say what you are writing down. Thanks. Tiamuttalk 17:09, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

But of course the real reason he removed the truth is quite conspicuously because he is a censoring Islamist antichrist.

[Peter]

Let's exegete the article here since that's not possible at Wikipedia without Muhammadans censoring the truth.

"Bakkah (Arabic: بكة‎) is an ancient name for Mecca,

While many ancient Arabian towns are well attested in the historical and archaeological records, there is no historical record that suggests that Mecca ever existed before the 4th century AD, so it can hardly have an "ancient name" since the term "ancient" is generally understood to mean prior to the Christian era.

the most holy city of Islam.[1]

Since Muhammad declared the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel, and Mecca was a center of Arabian moon, sun, star and jinn devil worship located 1200 kilometers away from THE Holy Land of the prophets and patriarchs, from a Christian perspective, the adjective "holy" applied here for Mecca is a conspicuous oxymoron.

Most people believe they are synonyms, but to Muslim scholars there is a distinction: Bakkah refers to the Kaaba and the sacred site immediately surrounding it, while Mecca is the name of the city in which they are both located.[2]

Bakkah is mentioned in sura 3 (Al-i-Imran), ayah 96 of the Qur'an, where it is said to be the site of the first place of worship.[3][4] Others also identify it with the Biblical "valley of Baca" from Psalms 84 (Hebrew: בך‎).[5][6]

This is utterly ridiculous, as is easily revealed by the very passage referenced, that pins it's own location. Thus any relationship the article attempts to draw with the God of the scirptures goes right out the window.

Psalms 84:6 [Who] passing through the valley of Baca make it a well; the rain also filleth the pools. 7 They go from strength to strength, [every one of them] in Zion appeareth before God.

Contents
[hide]

    1 Bakkah and Mecca
    2 Valley of Baca
    3 References
    4 External links

Bakkah and Mecca

Bakkah (also transliterated Baca, Baka, Bakah, Bakka, Becca, Bekka, etc.) is the ancient name for the site of Mecca.[1][3][7][8] An Arabic language word, its etymology, like that of Mecca, is obscure.[9] One meaning ascribed to it is "narrow," seen as descriptive of the area in which the valley of the holy places and the city of Mecca are located, pressed in upon as they are by mountains.[3] Widely believed to be a synonym for Mecca, it is said to be more specifically the early name for the valley located therein, while Muslim scholars generally use it to refer to the sacred area of the city that immediately surrounds and includes the Kaaba.[2][5][10]

This nonsense begs to have the "scholarship" exposed for what it is by bolding and enlarging the font of germane phrases.

The form Bakkah is used for the name Mecca in the Quran in 3:96, while the form Mecca is used in 48:24.[9][11] In South Arabic, the language in use in the southern portion of the Arabian Peninsula at the time of Muhammad, the b and m were interchangeable.[11] The Quranic passage using the form Bakkah says: "The first sanctuary appointed for mankind was that at Bakkah, a blessed place, a guidance for the peoples."[3][4] Other references to Mecca in the Quran (6:92, 42:5) call it Umm al-Qura, meaning "mother of all settlements."[11]

In Islamic tradition, Bakkah is where Hagar and Ishmael (Ismā'īl) settled after being taken by Abraham (Ibrāhīm) to the wilderness, a story related in the Bible's Book of Genesis (21:14-21).[7][12] Genesis tells of how after Hagar and Ishmael ran out of water to drink.[7] In Arab tradition, Hagar runs back and forth between two elevated points seven times to search for help before sitting down in despair, at which point the angel speaks as recorded in Genesis 21:17-19:

    God heard the cry of the boy, and an angel of God called to Hagar from heaven and said to her, 'What troubles you, Hagar? Fear not, for God has heeded the cry of the boy where he is. Come, lift up the boy and hold him by the hand, for I will make a great nation of him.' Then God opened her eyes and she saw a well of water. She went and filled the skin with water and let the boy drink.[5]

Here, the tradition holds that a spring gushed forth from the spot where Hagar had laid Ishmael, and this spring came to be known as the Well of Zamzam.[5][7] When Muslims on hajj run between the hills of Safa and Marwah seven times, it is to commemorate Hagar's search for help and the resulting revelation of the well of Zamzam.[5]

This is what happens when people believe Satan's lies at face value instead of investigating the true history of the tradition. The historical FACT of the matter is, that Muhammad's father Abdul (which means slave of the Quraish pagan deity "Allah") established a Hajj around the hills of Safa and Marwah on which he placed idols of the most venerated priest and priestess of the Arabian jinn religion. The pagans ran back and forth between Safa and Marwah 7 times because Abdel had placed idols of Asaf and Nielah on those hills. Muhammad adopted and then thinly repackaged the pagan ritual to fit his own religious invention. Even some of Muhammad's closest followers hated to run back and forth between Safa and Marwah because they knew all too well it was the same pagan ritual - sans idols.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah

It is also believed that Hagar and Ishamel settled in Bakkah, and the Quran relates that Abraham came to Mecca to help his son Ishmael build the Kaaba

Which is even more ridiculous since the historical and archaeological records tell us where Abraham traveled, and he was never within 1,000 kilometers, of where Mecca was eventually established in the 4th century AD.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hagar_ishmael.htm
Besides which Abraham lived about 900 years before the first caravan route was ever established along the Red Sea.

adjacent to the well of Zamzam.[5][7]

Which was dug by Muhammad's grandfather to establish Hajj around Asaf and Neilah.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2463.msg10207#msg10207
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1168.msg4562#msg4562
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2026.msg8524#msg8524

Ibn Ishaq, the 8th century Arab Muslim historian,

Here is what Muslims write of this phony "historian", and the fantasies he created, like that cited in this Wikipedia article.
http://www.answering-christian-claims.com/The-Problems-With-Ibn-Ishaq.html
"There are about 600 Hadiths in Ibn Ishaq's book "Sirat Rasullah" and most of them have what appears to be questionable (at best) isnads (chains of transmissions)."

Yet Ibn Ishak was the earliest source, from which all the latter collectors had to copy and edit.

Even worse, Ishaq's record was lost except for having been "preserved" (edited) by ibn Hisham who died in 833. Hisham admitted Ishaq: 691 "I am omitting things which Ishaq recorded in this book. I have omitted things which are disgraceful to discuss and matters which would distress certain people."
http://www.petewaldo.com/banu_qurayza_massacre.htm

relates that during the renovation of Kaaba undertaken by Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, in 605 CE, the Quraysh found an inscription in one of the corners of the foundation of the building that mentions Bakkah.

Ishak also created the phony genealogy for Muhammad, against Muhammad's prohibitions against creating genealogies for him.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1214.0

But hey, why couldn't he believe he could get away with writing any kind of fiction, in light of Muhammad's followers believing he rode on a flying donkey-mule!
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1253.0

[/quote]Composed in Syriac, it was incomprehensible to the Quraysh until a Jew translated it for them as follows: "I am Allah, the Lord of Bakka. I created it on the day I created heaven and earth and formed the sun and the moon, and I surrounded it with seven pious angels. It will stand while its two mountains stand, a blessing to its people with milk and water."[13][/quote]

There is no such thing as a Muslim historian as their job can only consist of sifting through the CREATED 7th and 8th century Muhammadan demonstrable FICTION that they can only label "tradition". Tradition from where? From whom? since there were nothing but pagans that preceded Muhammad and his boys in Mecca? Indeed they had all grown up as pagan moon, sun, star and jinn devil worshipers. That's the only tradition they had.

The name Bakkah is woven into the kiswa, the cloth covering the Kaaba that is replaced each year before the Hajj.[14]
Valley of Baca

The Valley of Baca is mentioned in Psalm 84 of the Bible in the following passage:

    How lovely is Your dwelling-place, O Lord of Hosts. I long, I yearn for the courts of the Lord; my body and soul shout for joy to the living God ... Happy are those who dwell in Your house; they forever praise You. Happy is the man who finds refuge in You, whose mind is on the [pilgrim] highways. They pass through the Valley of Baca, regarding it as a place of springs, as if the early rain had covered it with blessing ... Better one day in Your courts than a thousand [anywhere else]; I would rather stand at the threshold of God's house than dwell in the tents of the wicked[5]

So the source of the above passage from the Wikipedia article (from a bible version I cannot find) is listed as
5. Daniel C. Peterson (2007). Muhammad, prophet of God

Then the "writer" of the Wikipedia article tries to create a false relationship between his quote from (the Mormon) Peterson's book, and the KJV, by listing number 6 as
6. Psalms 84:6, King James Version
Which link only includes the single verse of Psalms 84:6, absent the following verse that pins the location as being in ZION!

This practice is what's known as "taqiyyah", or Islamic subterfuge, that is, lying in the way of Allah.
Let's look at the passage in the KJV. I bolded the portions that were replaced with ... in the Wikipedia article.

(KJV) Psalms 84:1 How amiable [are] thy tabernacles, O LORD of hosts! 2 My soul longeth, yea, even fainteth for the courts of the LORD: my heart and my flesh crieth out for the living God. 3 Yea, the sparrow hath found an house, and the swallow a nest for herself, where she may lay her young, [even] thine altars, O LORD of hosts, my King, and my God. 4 Blessed [are] they that dwell in thy house: they will be still praising thee. Selah.   5 Blessed [is] the man whose strength [is] in thee; in whose heart [are] the ways [of them].   6 [Who] passing through the valley of Baca make it a well; the rain also filleth the pools. 7 They go from strength to strength, [every one of them] in Zion appeareth before God. 8 O LORD God of hosts, hear my prayer: give ear, O God of Jacob. Selah.   9 Behold, O God our shield, and look upon the face of thine anointed.   10 For a day in thy courts [is] better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness.

Thus we can see that the dotted line, indicating a portion skipped in the Wikipedia article, was the only portion of the passage that mattered. It was the portion of the passage that PINNED THE LOCATION OF THE PILGRIMAGE!!!
Why would they lie for Satan? So they can join THE false prophet Muhammad after they die.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The original Hebrew language phrase for the Valley of Baca is emeq ha-Baka.[15][16][17] It can be translated as "Valley of the Balsam Tree" or "Valley of the Weeper".[15][16] This otherwise unidentified valley has been connected to Bakkah by Islamic writers.[5]"

That is by Islamic liars, like the "writer" that vomited the preposterous Muhammadan nonsense into the Wikipedia article, pretending that the pilgrimage referenced in Psalms that Yahweh's people went on, to the temple that Yahweh had them build on the temple mount in ZION - in Jerusalem - "Islamic writers" lied about it instead being a pagan Arabian Hajj to the pagan's kaaba in mecca, located 1200 kilometers away from THE Holy Land, of the prophets and patriarchs and temple that Yahweh's people built.
That is, of course, why the lying author of the absurd article did not include the location pin of the very passage that he cited in efforts to write Muhammad into scripture (in other than the verses that warn of false prophets and THE false prohet).
"Psalms 84:7 They go from strength to strength, [every one of them] in Zion appeareth before God.

Also notice that footnote 17 also stops short of the only verse in the passage that matters regarding the location of the pilgrimage

"17. ^ Psalms 84:1-84:6 of the King James Version reads:

    How amiable are thy tabernacles, O LORD of hosts!
    My soul longeth, yea, even fainteth for the courts of the LORD: my heart and my flesh crieth out for the living God.
    Yea, the sparrow hath found an house, and the swallow a nest for herself, where she may lay her young, even thine altars, O LORD of hosts, my King, and my God.
    Blessed are they that dwell in thy house: they will be still praising thee. Selah.
    Blessed is the man whose strength is in thee; in whose heart are the ways of them.
    Who passing through the valley of Baca make it a well; the rain also filleth the pools."
_______________

But it isn't only his words that made him a liar.

1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

[annazakiya]

This is the censoring "Palestinian's" home page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Tiamut

This user is a member of WikiProject Christianity"

Of course they are

[Peter]

I added the following to the "discussion" section of the Wikipedia "Bakkah" thread.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bakkah#Germane_Scripture

== Germane Scripture ==

Removed the following passage, that was credited to an individual Mormon author, that also has the most germane verse in the passage censored out of it while including verses that are unnecessary:

How lovely is Your dwelling-place, O Lord of Hosts. I long, I yearn for the courts of the Lord; my body and soul shout for joy to the living God ... Happy are those who dwell in Your house; they forever praise You. Happy is the man who finds refuge in You, whose mind is on the [pilgrim] highways. They pass through the Valley of Baca, regarding it as a place of springs, as if the early rain had covered it with blessing ... Better one day in Your courts than a thousand [anywhere else]; I would rather stand at the threshold of God's house than dwell in the tents of the wicked[5]

Replaced it with verses from the actual passage in the most widely read and respected King James version - including the censored verse - that pins the destination of the pilgrimage referenced in Psalms 84 as being IN ZION (Jerusalem) - [http://bible.cc/psalms/84-7.htm as do all bible versions.]
w/ref http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Psa&c=84&v=7&t=KJV#7

Psalms 84:6 [Who] passing through the valley of Baca make it a well; the rain also filleth the pools. 7 They go from strength to strength, [every one of them] in Zion appeareth before God.

Reverence #17 also stops short of including the very next - and only germane - verse, regarding the destination of the pilgrimage this Psalms passage refers to.

I also added the following after

“This otherwise unidentified valley has been connected to Bakkah by Islamic writers.[5]”

However the Hebrew author of the Old Testament Psalm pinned the location of the pilgrimage as being in Zion which is the easternmost hill in, and synonymous with, Jerusalem, and is referenced 153 times in the King James version of the Holy Bible.
w/ref http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=zion&t=KJV

Also balanced the Islamic “external link” with a Christian “external link”[[User:PeterWaldo|PeterWaldo]] ([[User talk:PeterWaldo|talk]]) 12:12, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
________________________

That announced the following changes I put in these two article sections.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakkah#Valley_of_Baca

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakkah#External_links

How long do you figure the changes will last? My bet is you better look quick if you want to see the changes before they are removed.

[Peter]

This is the closest version I could find to that quoted from in the Wikipedia article.

http://www.biblestudytools.com/csb/psalms/84.html

Psalms 84:1 How lovely is Your dwelling place, Lord of Hosts. 2 I long and yearn for the courts of the Lord; my heart and flesh cry out for the living God. 3 Even a sparrow finds a home, and a swallow, a nest for herself where she places her young- near Your altars, Lord of Hosts, my King and my God. 4 How happy are those who reside in Your house, who praise You continually. Selah 5 Happy are the people whose strength is in You, whose hearts are set on pilgrimage. 6 As they pass through the Valley of Baca, they make it a source of springwater; even the autumn rain will cover it with blessings. 7 They go from strength to strength; each appears before God in Zion. 8 Lord God of Hosts, hear my prayer; listen, God of Jacob. Selah 9 Consider our shield, God; look on the face of Your anointed one. 10 Better a day in Your courts than a thousand [anywhere else]. I would rather be at the door of the house of my God than to live in the tents of the wicked.

Compare that with the censored version in the Wikipedia article. I'll bold the omitted parts in the above complete quote.

How lovely is Your dwelling-place, O Lord of Hosts. I long, I yearn for the courts of the Lord; my body and soul shout for joy to the living God ... Happy are those who dwell in Your house; they forever praise You. Happy is the man who finds refuge in You, whose mind is on the [pilgrim] highways. They pass through the Valley of Baca, regarding it as a place of springs, as if the early rain had covered it with blessing ... Better one day in Your courts than a thousand [anywhere else]; I would rather stand at the threshold of God's house than dwell in the tents of the wicked[5]