Speaking in Tongues

[Peter]

Thanks Peter, I am so glad I sensed the tongues stuff wasn't right,

then I also learned what was the reason for it, ie to teach foreign people the gospel when they were in Jerusalem and as a warning to the coming destruction of Jerusalem, this is what I was taught.

Thanks for the welcome too, I am going to keep reading and putting things together.

There is nothing wrong with speaking in tongues. It's a gift of the Spirit. But what language is being spoken, who is interpreting, and for whose benefit? Bruce Olson ("Bruchko") saved a whole tribe of South American jungle dwellers. He left for a short time and while he was gone, that tribe had saved another whole tribe, even though not a single person from either tribe knew the language of the other.

Talking in tongues is a gift of the Spirit. But when we find churches that hold doctrine, that claims it is some sort of proof of salvation, and so they engage in a peep and mutter show among the brethren every Sunday, there is a good chance they are channeling tongues of unclean spirits. To suggest that everybody should be talking in tongues is to suggest that the body of Christ is all eyes, or all hands.

(KJV) 1 Corinthians 12:1 Now concerning spiritual [gifts], brethren, I would not have you ignorant.    2  Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.    3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.    4  Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.    5  And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.    6  And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.    7  But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.    8  For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;    9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;    10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another [divers] kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:    11  But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.    12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also [is] Christ.    13  For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.    14  For the body is not one member, but many.    15  If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?    16  And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?    17  If the whole body [were] an eye, where [were] the hearing? If the whole [were] hearing, where [were] the smelling?    18  But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.    19  And if they were all one member, where [were] the body? 

Does that read like everyone in church should be speaking in tongues?
Excellent book, "Demons in the Church" by Ellis Skolfield.

20  But now [are they] many members, yet but one body.    21  And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.    22  Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:    23 And those [members] of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely [parts] have more abundant comeliness.    24  For our comely [parts] have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that [part] which lacked:    25  That there should be no schism in the body; but [that] the members should have the same care one for another.    26  And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.    27  Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.    28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

That is the order of importance God seems to assign to it. Is everyone expected to prophesy too? What happens when an 8 year old kid comes to understand that the only way he can know that he is saved is if he speaks in tongues? He is going to do everything in his power to invite unclean spirits, and his fellow parishioners are going to be more than sufficient to help impart them to him by laying on hands and such.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCcGaTRwG_4
Children indoctrinated
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnlEkRGl81M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LACyLTsH4ac

   29  [Are] all apostles? [are] all prophets? [are] all teachers? [are] all workers of miracles?    30  Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?    31  But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

The answer is apparent.

1Cr 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying [serveth] not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

1Cr 14:6      Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

The important thing is to try the spirits that are giving utterance to know whether they are of God.

Good video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3cLChnG_mE
Rest of the videos on his channel here (in reverse order):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emMlK84G1OY
If that is removed try this search - Jesus Camp ''Highlights''

http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=634.msg2654#msg2654

A good read on this subject is Demons in the Church by Ellis Skolfield available free at this link.
http://www.israelinbibleprophecy.com/demons_in_the_church.htm

[Peter]

    KUNDALINI WARNING - Urgent
    -by Andrew Strom.

    Now I am a tongues-speaking Pentecostal myself - but can I ask
    a simple question here please? What kind of "spirit" was it
    operating in the Lakeland revival - when the leader and main focal-
    point of the meetings (Todd Bentley) was having an adulterous
    affair behind the scenes? Was it truly the "Holy" Spirit that was
    anointing something so sensual and unholy? And now that Todd
    divorced his wife and married his mistress - are we supposed to
    welcome him back and this "anointing" with him? What is going
    on here? Rick Joyner has been warned very specifically by high-
    level ministries not to do what he is doing now - bringing Todd
    Bentley back into the limelight. And yet it seems he does not
    care. Apparently the "manifestations" are all that matter.

    So what exactly are these 'manifestations' if they are seemingly
    at home in such an unholy environment? Are they from God at
    all? (I am talking here about the violent "jerking", uncontrollable
    laughter, bodily contortions, drunkenness, 'portals', strange "angel"
    encounters, etc.) Why do we not see such an 'anointing' in the
    Bible? Why aren't Jesus or the apostles promoting these
    manifestations if they really are true Revival? Why instead do we
    see these things all the way through the New Age and Hinduism,
    etc? Do we not realize that many false religions have their own
    version of "laying on of hands" that results in these very types of
    manifestations? This 'spirit' is not in the Bible - but it is all the
    way through Kundalini-type Hinduism! Don't you think this should
    alarm us?

    WHAT is KUNDALINI?

    If you search for Kundalini and Shakti on the Internet, you will find
    that multitudes of people in the New Age and Eastern religions
    still experience these powerful manifestations. Often this is with
    the help of a Guru, who touches them on the forehead so that
    they can experience a "Kundalini Awakening".

    As researcher Robert Walker wrote in 1995:

    "The meetings which mystic Hindu gurus hold are called 'Darshan'.
    At these meetings devotees go forward to receive spiritual experience
    from a touch by the open palm of the hand, often to the forehead,
    by the guru in what is known as the Shakti Pat or divine touch.
    The raising of the spiritual experience is called raising Kundalini"
    After a period when the devotee has reached a certain spiritual
    elevation they begin to shake, jerk, or hop or squirm uncontrollably,
    sometimes breaking into uncontrolled animal noises or laughter
    as they reach an ecstatic high. These manifestations are called
    'Kriyas'. Devotees sometimes roar like lions and show all kinds
    of physical signs during this period. Often devotees move on to
    higher states of spiritual consciousness and become inert
    physically and appear to slip into an unconsciousness..."

    And as the guru Shri Yog-nandji Mah'r'ja wrote:
    "When Your body begins trembling, hair stands on roots, you laugh
    or begin to weep without your wishing, your tongue begins to utter
    deformed sounds, you are filled with fear or see frightening visions'
    the Kundalini Shakti has become active."

    In China there is a popular Kundalini-type movement called 'Qigong'.
    When a Chinese Qigong spiritual master spoke in the USA in
    1991, the San Francisco Chronicle reported that many in the crowd
    began to experience "spontaneous movements". The master told
    his audience, "Those who are sensitive might start having some
    strong physical sensations - or start laughing or crying. Don't worry.
    This is quite normal."

    When you see videos of these "kriyas" or other Kundalini-type
    manifestations, you would often swear that you are watching a
    modern "Impartation"-type church meeting. (And I say this as
    someone who believes strongly in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I just
    don't believe in "alien" anointings infiltrating the Body of Christ!
    There is a big difference between Kundalini and the real Holy Spirit).

    Since 1993-4, I believe a foreign spirit has been allowed to invade
    the church - first through Rodney Howard-Browne's ministry - then
    Toronto, then the Prophetic movement (which I was part of at the
    time) and on into Lakeland and many other ministries and
    movements. I urge people now to "test the spirits" just as we are
    commanded to in Scripture. Do not let just anyone lay hands on
    you. This is a powerful spirit and it has the backing of a lot of
    big-name ministries. In fact, these men and women are the very
    ones responsible for allowing it to spread right through the body
    of Christ. And one day they will be answerable to God for doing so.

    We are specifically warned in the Bible that the Last Days will be
    a time of "seducing spirits," false prophets, 'lying signs and
    wonders,' and that we always need to watch for "angels of light"
    masquerading as the real thing. Why does the modern church
    not take these warnings seriously? Aren't we living in the very
    days that the Bible warns about?

    Right now I need to do something that I have never done in such
    a way before. I have never before published a list of ministries or
    movements to watch out for. But this time I have to. This sickness
    has gone on long enough. I urge you to cut yourself off from
    the following ministries and their tainted "anointings" my friends.
    Even though some of these people say "good things" at times, it
    is simply not worth having any involvement with them due to the
    tainted anointing that they endorse or minister in themselves. Here
    is the list-

    (1) Todd Bentley.
    (2) Rodney Howard Browne - the so-called "Holy Ghost Bartender."
    (2) Rick Joyner or anyone connected with Morningstar Ministries.
    (3) John Arnott & any connected with TACF (The "Toronto Blessing").
    (4) Peter Wagner of the 'New Apostolic Reformation' who claims
    to be head of a worldwide network of 'apostles' - who publicly
    endorsed Lakeland and will soon preach at Toronto TACF alongside
    other "false anointing" advocates.
    (5) Mike Bickle and IHOP Kansas City (-I lived nearby for over
    two years - and know how much they are into all this stuff. Mike
    Bickle promotes it in his book).
    (6) Bob Jones - the Kansas City prophet whose ministry is utterly
    tainted by it all.
    (7) Patricia King and anyone else from 'Extreme Prophetic.'
    (8) John Crowder & anyone connected with "Sloshfest."
    (9) Bill Johnson of Bethel church, Redding - who says some good
    things but publicly endorsed Lakeland and promotes the "false
    anointing" very strongly behind the scenes.
    (10) Heidi & Rolland Baker of IRIS Ministries - who do good work
    amongst the poor in Mozambique - but who have also carried
    and promoted this tainted anointing for years.
    (11) Randy Clark, Wes & Stacey Campbell, and other key
    figures from the "Toronto blessing."
    (12) The Elijah List - and almost anyone featured on it.

    Of course there are a huge number of lesser-known preachers
    and ministries who carry or endorse this Kundalini-type "anointing"
    around the world. But I have concentrated here on the most
    influential that I know of. It really is an enormous issue in the
    church. I urge anyone who is a supporter of any of the above
    ministries to really check them out thoroughly. If you find (as I have)
    that they carry or endorse this false Kundalini spirit in the church,
    then please stop supporting them in any way - and whatever you
    do, don't let them "lay hands" on you!

    I am putting everything on the line to be "naming names" like this.
    But I believe it is that serious. How on earth did we get to the point
    where "kriyas" just like Hinduism are spreading through the church?

    Please forward this email to everyone you know, blogs and boards,
    etc. These people are trying to "relaunch" this whole thing right
    now. Help us get this warning out.

[Peter]

Hi brethren,
 
The Lord spoke this through Solomon, "it's the little foxes that spoil the vines."
 
As I wrote in a previous e-mail, a little false doctrine goes along way. Unfortunately, false doctrine is cumulative; it may start out small; then some "filled with the Spirit" church leader adds a little creative theology, another well-meaning soul adds a verse out of context, a third declares that certain scriptures are only for the 1st Century Corinthians, etc. etc., ad infinitum. . . and almost before you know it, the church is so far from biblical truth that what it teaches can no longer be recognized as biblical Christianity.
 
About twenty years ago, I attended an Assembly of God for a year and a half. The pastor was so eloquent, his messages so uplifting, that it it was a while before I realized that in his zeal to have everyone speaking in "tongues," he had totally forgotten the Cross. Women all over the church, with heads uncovered, were holding forth in "tongues," in open disobedience to "let women remain silent in the church." Women were preaching from the pulpit in open disobedience to, "I do not allow a woman to teacher or hold authority over a man." There was little concerned for repentance and even less for obedience.
 
So let me ask you, will the Holy Spirit of God give spiritual gifts in opposition to what scripture commands, enabling people to be in disobedience to God's written word? Of course not or God would cease to be holy. But it's just as I wrote earlier, false doctrine starts out with a little error. . . but it grows and grows until we eventually have Kundalini demons in the church, whose appearance is probably a harbinger of the spiritual death of one of the two witnesses . . .
 
Revelation 11:3-4, 7:  "And I will give power unto my two witnesses (the Church and the Jewish people), and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days (from 688 to 1948), clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees (Rom11:24-25), and the two candlesticks (Rev 1:20) standing before the God of the earth. And when they shall have finished their testimony (1948-1967), the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit (Satan) shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and (spiritually) kill them."
 
Nevertheless, the church will continue in its "little" disobediences, never recognizing that these "little" disobediences give Satan access to attack the church and are the real source of the problem.
 
God help us!
 
Ellis Skolfield
 
P. S. if you don't remember how Revelation 11:3-4, 7 can be understood in the way described within the quote, please go to http://www.ellisskolfield.net/books and Download the free Teaching Outline CD or the free e-book, "Islam in the End Times."

[PeteWaldo]

Assemblies of God

"Is tongues the only evidence of the infilling of the Holy Spirit? Will there be any significant changes in one's attitudes and actions after being baptized in the Spirit?

The first physical sign of the infilling of the Spirit is speaking in tongues."

http://ag.org/top/Beliefs/baptmhs_faq_tongues.cfm#onlyevidence

[PeteWaldo]

A note on the only type of "tongues" I have heard. Also from that site:

"glossolalia consists of strings of meaningless syllables made up of sounds taken from those familiar to the speaker and put together more or less haphazardly .... Glossolalia is language-like because the speaker unconsciously wants it to be language-like. Yet in spite of superficial similarities, glossolalia fundamentally is not language

When spoken by schizophrenics, glossolalia are recognized as gibberish. In charismatic Christian communities glossolalia is sacred and referred to as "speaking in tongues" or having "the gift of tongues." In Acts of the Apostles, tongues of fire are described as alighting on the Apostles, filling them with the Holy Spirit. Allegedly, this allowed the Apostles to speak in their own language but be understood by foreigners from several nations
Glossolalics behave in various ways, depending on the social expectations of their community. Some go into convulsions or lose consciousness; others are less dramatic. Some seem to go into a trance; some claim to have amnesia of their speaking in tongues. All believe they are possessed by the Holy Spirit and the gibberish they utter is meaningful. However, only one with faith and the gift of interpretation is capable of figuring out the meaning of the meaningless utterances. Of course, this belief gives the interpreter unchecked leeway in "translating" the meaningless utterances. Nicholas Spanos notes: "Typically, the interpretation supports the central tenets of the religious community" (Spanos, 147).

Uttering gibberish that is interpreted as profound mystical insight by holy men is an ancient practice. In Greece, even the priest of Apollo, god of light, engaged in prophetic babbling.
Source(s):
There is evidence that while speaking in tongues people experience a sharp decrease in frontal lobe function, the area of the brain that enables reason and self-control."