"A Common Word Between Us and You" - Interfaith Pluralism in the "Falling Away"

[ExMilitary]

It is hard. Look at how stunningly this thread developed, yet was greeted with yawns all around, and will fall in the street because it's against what they believe while at the same time being pretty much inarguable:
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/100577-could-mark-beast-fulfilled-prophecy.html

Or this one:
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/100446-who-will-false-prophet-book-revelation.html#post1716603

You know, I read these threads, and I'm still amazed how people miss the obviousness of this.  It is like something hidden in plain sight.

Something to consider regarding 'looking for the man of lawlessness within the body' (2 Thessalonians 2): 3 things:

1.  The Catholic Catechism Part 1, Section 2, Chapter 3, Paragraph 841: "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

2.  See this and this especially read the 2nd one, it is short, and is probably the one that matters most in my points (essentially the Protestant AND Catholic churches and organizations allowed the Muslims to declare to them that Jesus is NOT the son, and the Christian signatories of the 2nd document -the Christian response document - allowed them to get away with it... the Christian responders -like Rick Warren- even pointed out how much Muhammad and Jesus were alike)

3.  In 2011, Barna concluded that 40% of 'born again' Christians considered Allah and YHWH one and the same.

If you ask me, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 is being fulfilled as we speak.  The man of sin is being placed on the throne in the body.

Check this out, too.

It is all over the place...Catholic and Protestant.

[edit add 2-20-16 that prior link to Breitbart and Muslim prayers at the Vatican stopped working. Choose from the sites on this web search http://www.bing.com/search?q=islamic-prayers-heard-at-vatican&qs=n&form=QBLH&pq=islamic-prayers-heard-at-vatican&sc=0-0&sp=-1&sk=&cvid=69C7064D2BA242E881C1D94A6692A458 [end edit]

[PeteWaldo]

More one-way bridges being built. Those links will make a great addition to the related webpage:
http://www.petewaldo.com/religious_pluralism.htm

I glanced at "The ACW Letter" link on your first link and read: "The basis for this peace and understanding already exists. It is part of the very foundational principles of both faiths: love of the One God, and love of the neighbour. These principles are found over and over again in the sacred texts of Islam and Christianity."

I realized I have done a search of love in the Quran, but had never done a search of loving neighbors and just quick searched - love of neighbor in quran - and found this webpage early on:

"What does Islam and the quran say about loving your neighbor"

I popped into the article and found:

"O mankind! Allah created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know each other (not that you despise each other). Verily the most honored of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things)." Nobel Qur'an (49:13)"
http://pintails7886.hubpages.com/hub/What-Islam-says-about-loving-thy-neighbor

Seems to me it says "know each other", and even the part that says (not to despise each other), apparently had to be added by the translators. Is not despising someone, the same as loving them?! Next it goes on to say that the most honored by Allah is the most righteous, which would obviously exclude all non-Muslims, in "Allah's" judgment between the two groups. The next quote used to convince us is:

"We believe in God, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Ishmai'l, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) Prophets form their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we submit to God." Nobel Qur'an (2:136)

Anything about love in there? Only the repeated blasphemy of putting Jesus on the same level as Muhammad. Which also, as has already been pointed out in another thread, condemns all Muslims like Ahmed Deedat who make such anti-Islam claims as "We believe Jesus was one of the mightiest messengers."

Next:

"O people of the Book! Come to common terms as between us and you: that we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, lords and patrons other than Allah. If they turn back, Say:"Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will)." Nobel Qur'an (3:64)

More castigation of those who pray in Jesus'/Yeshua's name. Anything about loving neighbor in there?

"Of the people of the Book are a portion that stand (for the right); they rehearse the Sings of Allah all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. They believe in Allah and the Last Day; They enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in ranks of the righteous. Of the good that they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for Allah knows well those that do right." Nobel Qur'an (3:113-115)

Hmmmm.... does that describe any Christian denomination? How many churches have room between the pews to prostrate in prayer? How many Christians do that at home? We are to pray without ceasing which is incompatible with Sabian/Harranian styled prostration in prayer. The rest of the entire body of the page is just a bunch of dithering on by the author (very little of which I read - or needed to read if the Quran itself fails to instruct one to love one's neighbors) either in ignorance or in intentional dissimulation/taqiyyah.

[PeteWaldo]

The next one:

"Love your neighbor" in religions"
http://theloveofneighbors.blogspot.com/

Quotes the Bible, but apparently had to resort to the Hadith to find anything of use:

"The Prophet Muhammad said in Bukhari : Book 8 : Volume 73 : Hadith 43

"Gabriel continued to recommend me about treating the neighbors kindly and politely so much so that I thought he would order me to make them as my heirs.”"

While a little closer than the Quran, anything about love in there? Treat "kindly and politely".

[PeteWaldo]

The third result didn't return a page, but the fourth result was an online Quran with the following verse:

4:36 "Worship Allah and associate nothing with Him, and to parents do good, and to relatives, orphans, the needy, the near neighbor, the neighbor farther away, the companion at your side, the traveler, and those whom your right hands possess. Indeed, Allah does not like those who are self-deluding and boastful."

Just more about being doing "good" to people including one's slaves, while in the same breath as the other verses, while rejecting worship of Jesus.
http://quran.com/4/36

[PeteWaldo]

the 5th result:
http://www.answers.com/Q/What_does_the_Qur%27an_say_about_love_thy_neighbor

"What does the Qur'an say about love thy neighbor?"

"And worship Allah and do not ascribe any partner to Him … the neighbor who is near of kin, the neighbor who is a stranger … Indeed Allah does not like anyone who is a swaggering braggart" (Qur'an: Chapter 4, Verse 36).

Allah, the Exalted, says:
"Worship Allah and join none with Him (in worship); and do good to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, Al-Masakin (the poor), the neighbour who is near of kin, the neighbour who is a stranger, the companion by your side, the wayfarer (you meet), and those (slaves) whom your right hands possess.'' (4:36)

For more information on the three types of neighbors: Muslim relative neighbors, Muslim non-relative neighbors, and Non-Muslim neighbors, please see the Related Link below."

Doesn't that say it all? It all depends on what kind of neighbor we are talking about!

In a quick browse of the titles below I found such as: "Why in todays society churches do not follow Jesus' teaching on loving thy neighbor as loving one's self?"

Clicking on the link:

"Perhaps the verse below may answer this. It could also be that the particular persons who you are familiar with are not following who they claim to be following. I personally know of many Christians who are involved in loving service to others.

Matthew 24:12 (King James Version) 12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. An abundance of 'iniquity' can make people distrustful of others, especially if they have been on the receiving end of people who have used them. Christians who are new to the faith may also have issues from their previous life they are working through. But, Christians ought to be known for their love - even if they are an irritant for believing in what some regard as an ignorant superstition. "

[PeteWaldo]

The next from a Christian:
http://understand-islam.com/2010/06/24/understanding-islam-part-41-love-neighbor-as-self/

"I did not find a specific reference in the Quran to love of neighbor as oneself.  I can only conclude that the Bible, as a linkage to the Abrahamic lineage, is thus referenced by Imam Rauf in his claim.  However Sura 4:36 is an approximation."

Now I don't know how much time this person spent in the Quran, but refers to the same verse we already reviewed:

"Worship Allah and associate nothing with Him, and to parents do good, and to relatives, orphans, the needy, the near neighbor, the neighbor farther away, the companion at your side, the traveler, and those whom your right hands possess. Indeed, Allah does not like those who are self-deluding and boastful."

Of course the wealth that Muhammad was sharing was from his 1/5 of the "booty" that he stole, from those innocents that he and his followers had vanquished, through imperialistic conquest.

[PeteWaldo]

But let's cut the camel dung. Who does Muhammad's alter-ego "Allah" truly love?
Well who would Satan truly love?

Quran Surah 61:4 Truly allah loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure.

The 6th from last chapter in order of recitation (replacing or prioritizing it over any prior verses that would seem to contradict it).
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/the_love_of_god.htm

[PeteWaldo]

That letter says:

".....the Prophet Muhammad ( صلى الله عليه وسلم ) said: “None of you has faith until you love for your neighbour what you love for yourself.”"

But when I search it all I seem to get are ecumenical sites parroting.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=+%E2%80%9CNone+of+you+has+faith+until+you+love+for+your+neighbour+what+you+love+for+yourself.%E2%80%9D&go=Submit+Query&qs=bs&form=QBRE

Can anybody find a source for this?

When I search the Quran (Yusuf Ali) for - neighbour - I get this:
http://www.searchtruth.com/search.php?keyword=neighbour&chapter=&translator=2&search=1&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all

(1) Serve Allah, and join not any partners with Him; and do good- to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, those in need, neighbours who are near, neighbours who are strangers, the companion by your side, the wayfarer (ye meet), and what your right hands possess: For Allah loveth not the arrogant, the vainglorious;- (  سورة النساء  , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #36)

(2) It was not fitting for the people of Medina and the Bedouin Arabs of the neighbourhood, to refuse to follow Allah's Messenger, nor to prefer their own lives to his: because nothing could they suffer or do, but was reckoned to their credit as a deed of righteousness,- whether they suffered thirst, or fatigue, or hunger, in the cause of Allah, or trod paths to raise the ire of the Unbelievers, or received any injury whatever from an enemy: for Allah suffereth not the reward to be lost of those who do good;-  (  سورة التوبة  , At-Taubah, Chapter #9, Verse #120)

(3) And in the earth are tracts (diverse though) neighbouring, and gardens of vines and fields sown with corn, and palm trees - growing out of single roots or otherwise: watered with the same water, yet some of them We make more excellent than others to eat. Behold, verily in these things there are signs for those who understand! (  سورة الرعد  , Ar-Rad, Chapter #13, Verse #4)

(4) Truly, if the Hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and those who stir up sedition in the City, desist not, We shall certainly stir thee up against them: Then will they not be able to stay in it as thy neighbours for any length of time: (  سورة الأحزاب  , Al-Ahzab, Chapter #33, Verse #60)

(5) But refuse (to supply) (even) neighbourly needs. (  سورة الماعون  , Al-Maun, Chapter #107, Verse #7)

When I search Bukhari for - neighbour - I get two verses:
http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=neighbour&translator=1&search=1&book=&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all

(1) Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "O Muslim women! None of you should look down upon the gift sent by her she-neighbour even if it were the trotters of the sheep (fleshless part of legs)."  (Book #47, Hadith #740)

(2) Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet used to say, "O Muslim ladies! A neighbouress should not look down upon the present of her neighbouress even it were the hooves of a sheep."  (Book #73, Hadith #46)

[ExMilitary]

That letter says:

".....the Prophet Muhammad ( صلى الله عليه وسلم ) said: “None of you has faith until you love for your neighbour what you love for yourself.”"

But when I search it all I seem to get are ecumenical sites parroting.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=+%E2%80%9CNone+of+you+has+faith+until+you+love+for+your+neighbour+what+you+love+for+yourself.%E2%80%9D&go=Submit+Query&qs=bs&form=QBRE

Can anybody find a source for this?

This website says it comes from Sahih Muslim, Kitab al-Iman, 67-1, Hadith no.45, although I can't find an online text of that Hadith.

This website sources it from a different(?) Hadith?? Imam Nawawi’s Fourty Hadith, n13.

[PeteWaldo]

1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

[PeteWaldo]

http://www.petewaldo.com/religious_pluralism.htm

Dialogue between peace desiring Muslims and Christians is a waste of time, since all Christians are commanded to love our neighbors, and even love our enemies. All that any such misguided dialogue can be expected to accomplish, is for Muslims to advance their goal, of silencing the truth of the Gospel while advancing the lies of Islam. Toward their goal to make honest and open conversation about Muhammad and Islam a violation of international law. Additionally, all any Muslim with a capacity to be honest with themselves has to do, is investigate the absence of a history of Mecca prior to the 4th century AD, the geographical and demographic impossibility of Islamic fables about Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael - or put an honest effort into reading the Gospel - to easily overcome the stand-alone false prophet Muhammad's, stand-alone, counter-Gospel, anti-religion.

The only hope for constructive dialogue in regard to mitigating the murderous violence of imperialistic aggression around the world, must necessarily be a dialogue between Muslims that vainly wish Islam were a religion of peace - which may even include a few of the Muslim signatories of "A Common Word" - and the hundreds of millions of Muslims around the world that consider those peace wishing Muslims to be hypocrites and/or apostates, who fully understand it is Islam's 1400 year mission to conquer all kingdoms through imperialistic aggression and subjugate all people to Muhammad's followers. Those orthodox Muslims who understand that Muslims are to do as Muhammad did and commanded his followers to do.

The Muslims of "A Common Word" need to take their argument to Islamic scholars like the head of the Islamic State, Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi and to other leaders like those of Boco Haram in Nigeria, and to the terrorist scholars of the prestigous Al-azhar University. ".....most of the students at the university, which is located in Cairo, belong to the Muslim Brotherhood, which is designated as a terrorist organization by the Egyptian government." If the Muslims of "A Common Word" fear engaging in dialogue with orthodox Muslims like those listed, then it cannot be argued that the ultimate arbiters of Muhammad's anti-religion, will obviously be those that wield the biggest beheading knives who are supported by the Quran and Hadith. Not that it can be otherwise reasonably argued who the ultimate arbiters of Islam would be. Who the ultimate arbiter within the religion of Islam is, which is obviously the father of lies - Satan himself.

[PeteWaldo]

I'll temporarily lock this until the conversation has been moved to the appropriate forum section.