2 - Re: Apostasy in Islam and Christianity

[Pete]

Here's a YouTube by a Canadian X-Muslim who converted to Christianity, whose own mother then put a hit on him.
It resulted in his being pushed over a 4th floor Mall railing, and miraculously his only having become a paraplegic.
http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=88d267dba53d454cb1ed

naliakbar video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpgRIGRbF8s&watch_response
You suggested that I don't believe in the Old Testament, but no Christian would suggest that. The Old Testament began the steady revelation of God to mankind from our beginnings.
The New Testament is the fulfillment of the Old Testament.
The Old Testament detailed the everlasting covenants God had with THE JEWS including their land.
Many Jews were repeatedly disobedient to God so God extended salvation to THE GENTILES - you and me - through the new covanant in Jesus Christ. That's what the New Testament is about.

Though Muslims are fond of proof-texting verses from back in the beginnings of mankind of 3500 years ago, in an effort to justify the imperialistic pillaging and plundering of their 7th century prophet, the Old Testament prophets laid down their swords, and suggestion of using swords in God's service, about 1500 years before Mohammed was born.



Regarding your suggestion that Romans 1:32 calls men to kill one another for apostasy:

Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

This chapter details such things as homosexuality, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,...

Worthy of death in the context of this verse means that for them, after this life is death and they are worthy of it. Here's the verse in context (let's stick with the King James Version since that's what Deedat used):
http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rom/Rom001.html#32

Rom 1:27  And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28  And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29  Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30  Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31  Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32  Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

[naliakbar]

You suggested that I don't believe in the Old Testament, but no Christian would suggest that. The Old Testament began the steady revelation of God to mankind from our beginnings.

Then you must agree that the message in the OT is just as relivant for us today as it was back then when it was revealed, because the revelations of god does not change maybe altered based on certain things happening but not changed.  Like for instance eye for eye, was good in the time of moses because they were roaming but in the time of jesus they were settled so this is why we were told to turn the other cheek that was based on going from roaming to being settled.  Quran says the same thing.

Many Jews were repeatedly disobedient to God so God extended salvation to THE GENTILES - you and me - through the new covanant in Jesus Christ. That's what the New Testament is about.

I agree with this statement and I take it one step further, I say the jews changed the message of god, because they were to go out to mankind just like the muslims are doing but they made their religion a racial one.

Though Muslims are fond of proof-texting verses from back in the beginnings of mankind of 3500 years ago, in an effort to justify the imperialistic pillaging and plundering of their 7th century prophet, the Old Testament prophets laid down their swords, and suggestion of using swords in God's service, about 1500 years before Mohammed was born.

Can you show me where they layed down their swords?  You go back to their history they layed down their swords after they were concurred by the romans.

This chapter details such things as homosexuality, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,...

As for romans 1:32 why did you start reading at 1:27 and not at 1:25 which says:
 

25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

[Pete]

You suggested that I don't believe in the Old Testament, but no Christian would suggest that. The Old Testament began the steady revelation of God to mankind from our beginnings.

Then you must agree that the message in the OT is just as relivant for us today as it was back then when it was revealed, because the revelations of god does not change

Of course I wouldn't agree with this. This is the Islamic ruse to excuse away the reprobate behavior of a 7th century false prophet by comparing it with how God chose to begin to reveal Himself to mankind 3500 years ago.

Additionally, Old Testament prophets had laid down swords, or any suggestion of their use in God's service, 1500 years before Mohammed was born.

Then when God decided to extend salvation to Gentiles, like you and I, He gave us a NEW COVENANT through Jesus Christ.
Hbr 8:13  In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.

maybe altered based on certain things happening but not changed.  Like for instance eye for eye, was good in the time of moses because they were roaming but in the time of jesus they were settled so this is why we were told to turn the other cheek that was based on going from roaming to being settled.  Quran says the same thing.

The Quran says to smite the unbelievers at the neck. That's why Islam has slaughtered 2 million, in today's world, in the Sudan alone. It is the Africans that are being slaughtered that are turning the other cheek.
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=african+genocide+2+million+islam&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8

Many Jews were repeatedly disobedient to God so God extended salvation to THE GENTILES - you and me - through the new covanant in Jesus Christ. That's what the New Testament is about.

I agree with this statement and I take it one step further, I say the jews changed the message of god, because they were to go out to mankind just like the muslims are doing

Muslims are "going out to mankind" in rape, pillage, plunder and imperialistic conquest.
The Jews do not. Nor have they. Even their revolts were reaction to their oppression.
Just as their actions in Israel today regard their self-defense. If they had been imperialistic like Islam, there wouldn't be an Islamic country left in the Middle East. If Israel had the black heart of the leaders of her neighboring Islamic countries, they would have all been literal toast. Smoking wasteland.

but they made their religion a racial one.

Though Muslims are fond of proof-texting verses from back in the beginnings of mankind of 3500 years ago, in an effort to justify the imperialistic pillaging and plundering of their 7th century prophet, the Old Testament prophets laid down their swords, and suggestion of using swords in God's service, about 1500 years before Mohammed was born.

Can you show me where they layed down their swords?
You go back to their history they layed down their swords after they were concurred by the romans.

This chapter details such things as homosexuality, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,...

As for romans 1:32 why did you start reading at 1:27 and not at 1:25 which says:
 

25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

I added the additional verses to show your ridiculous proof texted earlier mischaracterization, that Romans 1:32 was about men killing other men for apostasy, like is prescribed in Islam.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/apostasy.htm

The verse you, in turn, extended it into regards idol worship, and that is particularly applicable to today with a western culture that is into "earth worship" and "green" lies, for truth, and our Creator.

Here's some blasphemy and worship of creeping things for you. The Greenies Arc of Hope - mockup of God's Arc of the Covenant.

"The Earth Charter and the Arc of Gaia Covenant."
U.N. and Satan hand in hand, just like Islam and U.N.

NEW WORLD RELIGION
http://www.thenewamerican.com/node/185