chat with an anti-Zionist

[Peter]

(disappeared then restored from database)

[[[Well maybe because i am not willig to support the jews?]]]

I guess you can see the racism of your broad brush. Do you think all Jews are the same, just like all Gentiles are the same? Are you the same as an atheist?

The Jews sat there for years with literally thousands of rockets from Gaza raining down on them. They finally decided to put a stop to it. Is it their fault that the Palestinians shield their rocket launches with women and children?

But why would your anti-semitism prevent you from bringing the truth of the Gospels to Muslims? To show them that they are antichrist and their religion is the EXACT OPPOSITE of Christianity.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/islam_the_opposite.htm

[[[And maybe because there is a reason why? There is one: Jewish aren't Israel only, they are sons of Israel! Abraham Isaac Yahkub weren't Jews!!! The Land of Israel, specially Galiläa wasn't from the Jews, but from the Christians!!!]]]

Indeed it is. So why have Arabs like Arafat, and Ahmadenejhad and Hamas THE GOVERNMENT of the so-called Palestinians, and the rest of Muslim Arabs, sworn to kill all the Jews and drive them into the sea?

Tell me. What were Israel and Jerusalem like between 1800 and 1825?
Can you help me with some links to some of this history?

[[[So there is also another Thing: Israel is not a Land, is Gods People!!! ]]]

I am somewhat familiar with replacement theology. But what does God's Word say?

Genesis 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an EVERLASTING POSSESSION; and I will be their God.

I believe when my everlasting God makes an everlasting covenant He means it. Please consider the following video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdi8PzPWrb8

[[[So is only Gods people when they accept Jesus as theyr Lord and the son of God!!!]]]

So are you saying that branches of the good olive tree are grafted into the wild olive tree? Who partakes WITH whom?
http://www.israelinbibleprophecy.com/spirit_of_slumber.htm

[[[ At that time also the Ismaelites lived in Israel!!! ]]]

Indeed. Abraham's bastard son with Hagar, in perfect prophecy:

Genesis 16:11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou [art] with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction. 12 And he will be a wild man; his hand [will be] against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

[[[So i am against killig jews and that what hitler done was bad,....]]]

But the Muslims were up to their eyeballs in it. The Mufti of Jerusalem was hand in hand with Hitler, along with 2 Islamic pazer divisions in Hitler's army. Specifically BECAUSE he was exterminating the Jews.
Please watch the attached video

[[[....... but....]]]

See what you did? "what hitler don was bad....BUT.
For me, stripping women, children and men naked and marching these innocents into a gas chamber is bad period. No buts about it.

[[[...... this what now Jews are doing, is also bad!]]]

The Jews have had Gaza rockets raining down on them almost from the first moment that they made the mistake of allowing that evil into Gaza. They finally decided to defend themselves against these thousands of rockets, and you are suggesting that has some sort of equivalence with Hitler's genocide of Jews.

[[[ Also that what Arabs do, is bad!!!]]]

Again, those Arabs, JUST LIKE HITLER TARGET INNOCENTS and it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with self-defense.
You seem to be under the impression that Muslim misdeeds are related to Zionism but it is going on all around the world. Over 12,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks around the world, just since 9-11. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
Wherever you find murder, mayhem and misery around the world, you will find Islam. India, Indonesia, it doesn' matter.

For heaven's sakes, The imperialistic murder and theft of Mohamed's maniacal first Islamic jihad conquered nearly the whole known world until being stopped in Tour France. If it hadn't been, you and I might be bowing to a black rock and speaking Arabic today as all Christan books and records would have been destroyed just the way they ban them in Muslim countries today.
There is a whole sura devoted to the spoils of imperialistic conquest titled "spoils of war - booty"

[[[I see in one side, protecting the Jews is a good thing,....]]]

Protecting the innocent is always a good thing.

[[[[..... especially to make good, what christians had done to them on the second war mondial.]]]

There is only one way to know what a Christian is:

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment. 31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. There is none other commandment greater than these. 32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:

The Catholic church murder of Jews, Muslims AND CHRISTIANS speaks loudly for that church from it's fruit.
Obviously unchristian behavior.

[[[[ On other part i see in the jewish nation a nation like the germans. Ok also the Islamites arround the jews are more this is true, this do pain me also. But wee need deeper discussion about the things happen before islam came to be!]]]

The Arabs have broken every "peace" treaty that has been brokered between them and the Jews. The reason for this is because they are determined to have their actions follow their words. Complete destruction of the Jewish people and driving them from their land.

[[[ Why and how was this! But i think, you want not know why, so i wish you a nice time, greets]]]

Again, you could help me greatly with some history of the area around 1800. Was it a bustling metropolis?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sk3fKY9PhY

[Peter]

[[[Well actual this map is the correct one:

http://www.bible.ca/maps/maps-ministry-of-jesus.jpg

So now look well Judea were it is, there are jewis from, the rest is not jewish!!!The rest is part of other tribes and people like the father abram(abo aram, father aram)!!!Like aslo king of salem, whas not a jew!!!But if you really wannah know he was syro-phoenician(syriac)!!! ]]]

You missed my point. The area was basically a barren wasteland with a bunch of desert nomads until the enterprising Jews were restored to their land. Just like Gaza was 50 years ago before they were forced to give their homes to Hamas and had their synagogues burned in Hamas celebration on entry.

For example:

In "A History of the Jews" - Paul Johnson - page 321: "Between 1827 and 1839, largely through British efforts, the population of Jerusalem rose from 550 to 5,500 and in all Palestine it topped 10,000 - the real beginning of the Jewish return to the Promised Land. In 1838 Palmerston appointed the first western vice-consul in Jerusalem, W.T. Young, and told him 'to afford protection to the Jews generally'."

In 1867 Mark Twain described it thus: ...[a] desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds-a silent mournful expanse....A desolation is here that not even imagination can grace with the pomp of life and action....We never saw a human being on the whole route....There was hardly a tree or a shrub anywhere. Even the olive and the cactus, those fast friends of the worthless soil, had almost deserted the country.

Jerusalem was desolated by 1200 years of Islamization. That beast that is "as a leopard" will never change it's spots.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/the_beast.htm

[[[So jewish just toke his religion, nothing more!!According to this, christianity is even older, is the real israel! I am with you, muslims even does not have right on this land and here was not the problem!!!]]]

You liked the good old days when Jews had to pay the jizya tax of the enslaved.
Do you know that it was a custom that when you would stand in line to pay the jizya, and after you handed the Muslims your money, they would slap you across the face to make sure you knew who you were submitted to?

[[[ But acctually the murders of the jews wan't the catolic chirch at all, they olny convert for protection!!!]]]

The Crusades slaughtered Jews throughout Europe on their way to the Holy Land.

[[[[ The murder of jews witch was with hitler, hitler was his fan, what martin luther from the protestant church, may i show yoiu what he said?ok:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_and_the_Jews]]]

I don't follow Martin Luther. The head of my church is Jesus Christ. Not the pope, not the pastor. The inquisitions demonstrated what happens when men like the pope believe themselves to be the authority.
Good book for you: "Pagan Christianity" by 100 year old Frank Viola.

[[[Read this and don't speak bulls**tt!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_Their_Lies

Here also,
so go kiss your bastard protestant church instead of the son of abraham!!!

Greets]]]

There's that good old love of God shining through you my friend.

Genesis 12:2 And I will make of thee [Abram] a great nation [Israel], and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: 3 And I WILL BLESS THEM THAT BLESS THEE, AND CURSE HIM THAT CURSETH THEE: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

So I take it then that you approve of the Roman Catholic church slaughter of Jews and Muslims of the Crusades, the crusaders cannibalism, and the murder of Christians through inquisitions and persecutions of the reformation. Did you ever read these accounts?

http://www.biblebelievers.com/foxes/findex.htm
http://www.homecomers.org/mirror/

http://www.beholdthebeast.com/great_tribulation.htm

Your friends:

In Indonesia 3 teenage girls were beheaded on their way to their Christian school and one head left on the steps of a Church. The note left behind reads: "We will murder 100 more Christian teenagers and their heads will be presented as presents."

This reads like a headline, doesn't it?

Zechariah 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V22qDQqMPL0

[Peter]

[[[Well actually i am not a friend of muslim, but also not a friend of jewish. As i said, i am against both acts they are doing!!!]]]

By this I guess you mean you are in favor of 9-11, but against the Israelis defending themselves against Hamas rocket attacks.

Does your church recognize the papacy at any headship of the church?

[Peter]

[[[Well actually i am not a friend of muslim, but also not a friend of jewish. As i said, i am against both acts they are doing!!!

Second, you speak about the roman church, but i speak about my church, the universal(catholic) nazarene church of east!!! Pagan? Well we whas all pagans!!! Even the YHWH has ASHTAROT as his wife and ADONAI was ADONIS! This is not the problem!!! Neither Jesus was a Jew nor Malech Zendik was a Jew!!! U speak only about arabs, well there are also christian arabs!!! But this is not the Problem. Jewish treathed us christians same way before long time. We Guyim doesn't even had right to enter in special places because of the Jews, and spook in our face. Don't tell me my Story, i know my Story well. From my Peoples Pen... Jewish came out as Arabs too!! And don't speak about anti semitism refering to jewish, for anti semitism is a false word in a matter of understanding!!! I am a real shemaye, older than Jews can be!!! If you want think, i hate Jew, you should call it antijew or antimuslim! Yes somehow i am both. Because m,y christianity say i shouldn't mix inside, and stay neutral. I other hands i should protect the weak!!! The problem is you can't stop the will of god and we don't know the will of god! I respect your saying about what they are doing in america and in other lands, i m with you and i am fighting also against that. Just you call this all muslim? You think is not a little beat esagerated? All christian communities have done bad once, but can you call all christian bad? I don't think so! What the roman catolic done to musli was theyr right, for the muslim maybe stole something what was from the jewish? Roman catolic crussades against jewish? You know at that time was a big fanatism too, don't compare it with today!!! Jewish doing the same thing what german has done with money of germany if you really wannah know!! The askenazi from Germani doing well sending milliards of dollars to them just because they had put them in kz, but in reallity its abnother story, jews protecting jews!!! Whats about the armenian killed by the turkish osmanic empire with help of ashkenazi jews from germani? What is osmanic? Well also many jews converted to islam there. So i am not saying Jews are bad. I am sure there are good people in the middle of them, must of them even does not know what politics matter!!! But there are fanatic also, i bring you many people of mine tribe, they will tell you the same thing: a jewish will never love you! Because when christianity became, they was very concerning about and done everything against!!! Islam? Well who made islam? I will tell you: Islam have been made by a disqualified assyrian nestorian monk named serkis bakhira alias ibn ben nawfal. How he made? I will tell you: He was a fan of arius and nestorius, mixed them and influenced by jewish, cause also jewish had many interest to make christianity week. So that false monk was a good gift to them. But there was a problem: This monk has the idea to create a new religion only in his way, so he do weakened the christianity, but also the jewish, he wrote a syriac book named quran and he had a scholar, named mohammad, a poor analphabeth, a shepard. He said unto him: Come my son, i will make from you a prophet!!!Muhammad recognize his fortune. So here was the start: When he been to mekka there was a fountain, he said to mohammad, listen, i will give you a clear book, nothing wrotten inside. I will enter in that fontain, and you will say, god is powerfull and if he want he can give you a wrotten book by trohwing your unwritten book inside this fontain. They did so, and many people believeth, then mohammad commanded shott now stones over the fonain and cover it, they killed the monk. And till today, this covered fontain they hold as a holy place. This is the story about quran, believe it or not. They try after by new alphabeth to ttanslate the quran into new arabic, but there was problems, because arabs cant understand syriac, so they do here also more errors again. Believe it or not, this is the true story, bye bye]]]

[Peter]

[[[So now this is my viewpoint. My poeple suffered alot from islams punishmend, but you know why?Because bastard westeners entered in muslim land and don't has protected us,......]]]

I guess Sadam should have simply been allowed to own Kuwait, and then Saudi Arabia, and then....
Hitler was an imperialist murderer too.
Mohammed was an imperialistic murderer too.
What the U.S. should have done is kick Sadam's butt the first time, when he went into Kuwait, and assign the Iraqis a constitution the way we did the Japanese, rather than letting 2 factions of antichrist form their government.

[[[........ just wanted the oil.]]]

Not question it is oil related rather than purely humanitarian. If it had been humanitarian we would have gone into the Sudan and tried to stop the Islamic slaughter of 2 million there.

[[[ On other side we .......]]]

Who's we? I thought you lived in Switzerland.

[[[......suffer till today but more than on the saddams regime!!!]]]

But you weren't among the Kurds that Sadam gassed and killed over 100,000 at Anfal. Or among the Iranians killed in battle over all those years between the two countries. Saddam was a filthy, reprobate mass murdering thug, yet your hatred of Jews is so intense that you actually long for the days in which Saddam was in charge.

[[[[Because of this bastardig plan of jewish oil lovers!!!]]]

Jews compose less than 1/4 of 1% of the world's population.
And they're the oil lovers? Jewish consumption of world oil is the problem?
Jews are defending themselves from Gaza rockets because they want Gaza oil?
The whole world runs on oil my friend. Switzerland too.

[[[ So don't tell me that those are christians!!!]]]

Generalization is how you come to hate persons, as whole groups.

[[[A christian never let his brother in danger!!! But Protestant does!!! And almost all protestant church in germany are jewish!!!]]]

Do you mean Jews that recognize that Jesus is their Messiah, or Jews in synagogues? Either way I'm glad they were able to stand up for God better than the rest of the church. The Christian church has otherwise been dead throughout Europe for a very long time. And particularly in Switzerland from what I understand, though witchcraft is big.
Perhaps Islam is God's punishment for turning away from Him.
But then apostasy was prophesied for our times.

[[[ How can they attack our eney without protecting us?]]]

How would you have suggested the Jews go about stopping the rockets that have been raining down on them over the years since they left Gaza? Since they left their homes farms and greenhouses that they carved out of that desert wasteland over the last 50 years.
(which, of course, they gave up for peace with terrorists. With animals. Look at the Hamas charter. The same as Hitler's playbook.)
What if it had been your town, and the town next door had been lobbing rockets indiscriminately into your homes? Would you just sit back and let them kill your children and destroy your property at their pleasure?

[[[ No sorry i don't like the jewish, but i also don't like the muslims,........]]]

Jhn 13:35 By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

I love Muslims and Jews and everybody else. That's why my life is devoted to bringing the Gospels to Muslims. Their religion is straight from satan, through a Christian perspective, specifically denying the blood that would save them as Gentiles.

Mark 12:31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

[[[[........ i don't like both and i know why the war in israel is, it will be till the comeing of the lord jesus,......]]]

Then I recommend you find your way to the right side of the matter before it's too late.
Who did God's Word suggest would be the bane of mankind?

Genesis 16:11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou [art] with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction. 12 And he will be a wild man; his hand [will be] against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

And who are we to bless, who have also blessed us so, through the arts, science, technology, and agricultural innovation?

Genesis 12:2 And I will make of thee [Abram] a great nation [Israel], and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: 3 And I WILL BLESS THEM THAT BLESS THEE, AND CURSE HIM THAT CURSETH THEE: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Zechariah 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

[[[....... because both have the blosd of jesus inside theyr hands, bye]]]

Jews didn't kill Jesus. It was the sinful nature of mankind. It was you and I that killed Jesus, my friend.

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of THE LAMB SLAIN FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.

Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have SUFFERED SINCE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

I'll pray for Jesus to touch your heart.

[Peter]

Was Abraham a Jew?

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

Are you a Jew?

Why is it that gentile Christians and Jews cohabitate readily in Israel but Muslims don't?

Genesis 16:11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou [art] with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction. 12 And he will be a wild man; his hand [will be] against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

[Peter]

[[[I guess you are a jew!!!And am sure you are, stay blind, because nothing what you say is truth, neither related with this what you include, thats why i said, remain blind...]]]

Though Gentile, through the Word of God it would seem that I am more Jew, than a genealogical Jew, that is atheist or agnostic.

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

What does it say about Christian posers, who behave the way the Roman Catholic papacy did in the crusades or inquisitions or reformation, for example?

What does it say about someone who says: "No sorry i don't like the jewish, but i also don't like the muslims,..."

Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment. 31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. There is none other commandment greater than these.

And Christian posers?

Revelation 2:9 ...[I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ_26AE0G_8

[Peter]

[[[Well because paulos was a jew too;)hehehe, thats why remain blind..]]]

Indeed. My blindness prevents me from sharing the same disdain for my fellow man, that a stand-up Christian such as yourself, harbors.

[Peter]

[[[I know that you are a christian, me am too a christian, nothing against this! God may prevet me from haveing something against! But God knows!!! I know that spiritualy be a jew is spiritualy be an israel!! You don't have to teach me, i know this, but....

Not the jew today, witch not accepting Jesus as the Muslims too, are Holy, because both are antichrist!!!!]

And for both is written:

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].]]

But Jews believe in the Son of God and some are still expecting Him to come:

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us A SON is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

So Jews believe in the Son of God, they just haven't recognized that Jesus is that promised Son. Why are they blind to the Gospels?

Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

Some were sovereignly blinded. Why would God blind some if He want that none should perish? So they couldn't sin against the Gospel?

Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes.

http://www.israelinbibleprophecy.com/spirit_of_slumber.htm

[[[Islam has start by the jews, thaks the jew:)]]]

Islam, on the other hand specifically blasphemes the Son of God:

Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

Surah 9.30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

They blaspheme the blood that would save them. Jews understand blood sacrifice from their old covenant.

I'd take a little advice from God's Word regarding this MYSTERY:

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

http://www.israelinbibleprophecy.com/spirit_of_slumber.htm

[[[Of course you have to protect the american, i am also against 11... but you should protect christianity from both sides!!

Thats why stay blind:)greetz hihi]]]

Jews, Christians and Muslims live peaceably, side by side in Jerusalem. In fact Arabs in Israel enjoy more freedom than in any Arab country in the region. They are even employed by Jews.
Israel has to defend herself from Hamas animals that are sworn to kill them all, and drive them into the sea, and so border security is required.

[Peter]

[[And on otherside, i know that not all JEWS are BAD, there are SURE alot good people and kind and respetfull!!!

As also some muslims:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTw87hGztwE

Listen to this and please read what he sing!

It could have had singing also a good Christian or a good Jew, because it was from heart!

Greetz]]]

And some Christian sects believe God smiles down on ordination of homosexuals as bishops as they sing their songs too.

Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death.

You and I both know you can't be singing to God on one hand and blaspheming Him on the other. You and I know that God isn't about what we make Him but how He revealed Himself through His 1600 year record. Some Christians doctrines likely have placed some men in the synagogue of satan.

We can't know God's judgments, but we can know what He expects because He gave us a record and it is filled with verses warning specifically about FALSE PROPHETS. Yet even the church is steeped in them. Just look at the mess the 19th century brought the church:

http://www.beholdthebeast.com/traditional_framework.htm#cults

We can't show Muslims the truth by having the pope kiss the Quran, pretending theirs is an Abrahamic faith when it is THE EXACT OPPOSITE. The very book he kissed says:

Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

We can show them the truth by.........showing them the truth!

Why not print a few of these on two sides, and Z fold them vertically, and then horizontally, and leave them in places where a Muslim might find them, to help them overcome the satanic delusion that they suffer, as did their false prophet? THE false prophet.

http://www.islamandthetruth.com/m15a.pdf

About half of African pastors today are former Muslim imams.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dcaLQa97PA