Author Topic: THE BEAST OF REVELATION 13  (Read 10336 times)

Peter

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THE BEAST OF REVELATION 13
« on: February 18, 2009, 08:56:01 AM »
Updated video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJODE7Q2KcM

THE "BEAST" OF REVELATION 13

Let's begin our investigation by considering what Daniel prophesied about "beasts" around 600 years before the Christian era. In Daniel's chapter 7 prophetic dream we find:

Daniel 7:3  And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

From Revelation we understand 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

Let's see how that definition works out in this case. Daniel describes his "beasts" as....

Daniel 7:4  The first [was] like a lion, and had eagle's wings...
Daniel 7:5  And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear...
Daniel 7:6  After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard...
Daniel 7:7  After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly...

A little later in the chapter we find....

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

So we learn that, at least in the context of the figurative language of a vision or dream in prophecy, a "beast" is defined as a kingdom.

"BEAST" = KINGDOM

Daniel did such a good job of describing the succession of kingdoms that were to unfold in his future, that there is considerable agreement among Jewish and Christian scholars that the kingdoms represented by Daniel's lion, bear and leopard, are the successive ancient kingdoms of Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece, followed by the fourth "terrible" beast, that is understood to be the Roman Empire. A Google search of "Babylon, Medo Persia, Greece" even in quotes nets over 13,000 hits.

These kingdoms are detailed within the traditional continuous-historic context of prophecy. This is simply the view that bible prophecy is fulfilled steadily as the era about which it is written gradually unfolds. This is the context in which virtually all Christians and Jews understand Old Testament prophecy, and the reformers and many Christians prior to the 20th century, applied to the book of Revelation as well.

Each of Daniel's beasts conquered the whole known world in it's turn. Below are rough maps detailing the approximate extent of these successive kingdoms.
 
Daniel 7:4 The first [was] like a lion, and had eagle's wings...
lion = Babylon



Daniel 7:5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear...
bear = Medo-Persia



Daniel 7:6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard...
leopard = Greece



Daniel 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly...
fourth "dreadful" = The Roman Empire



The first three of Daniel's kingdom beasts reappear together in scripture only one more time - in Revelation Chapter 13 - but as a composite beast:  

Revelation 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as [the feet] of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Daniel not only defined the term "beast" for us but he also assigned a gender to it.

Daniel 7:19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth [were of] iron, and his nails [of] brass; [which] devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;

The seats of the ancient successive kingdom beasts of lion, bear and leopard or Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece, are occupied today by the countries of Iraq, Iran and Syria/Lebanon. The dragon in the verse above who gives this beast/kingdom his power, and his seat, and great authority, is Satan.

While the countries in this seat today include various sects of Islam, indeed some with differences that even compel them to target for murder each other's innocent men, women and children, they are all perfectly united spiritually, by their false prophet Mohammed and his Quran. Please see the "666, Quran & Mohammed" video for more.

The kingdoms of this world have been Satan's legal possession ever since Adam's fall. Satan even offered them to Jesus, but Jesus of course refused them.

Luke 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. 6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

Again regarding the beast ...

Revelation 13:2 ... the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

The power that Satan gave to his Islamic kingdom "beast" for this "time of the end" is oil. His people didn't even have to develop the resource themselves. The very kingdoms that Muhammad's followers vow to conquer and subjugate to Muhammad's religion, are the same that developed, and sever, the oil for them. Western kingdoms whoring themselves out at any price for oil to keep economies going and phony money debt flowing. Even at the expense of arming Satan's kingdom against Israel, the only country in the Middle East that shares our western values of freedom, self-determination, and recognition of human rights. Please see the "Gaza" video for more on this subject.


Muslims readily identify with the seed of Ishmael which are the children of the flesh. That's why they lust after conquest and control of Satan's worldly kingdoms while blind to the kingdom of God. Yahweh's covenant is with the seed of Isaac and specifically NOT with the seed of Ishmael.

Genesis 21:10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, [even] with Isaac.

And Abraham did cast out his wife Sarah's bondwoman Hagar and her son Ishmael thereby disowning him. Seems even God Himself no longer recognized Ishmael as a son of Abraham.

Genesis 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only [son] Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

Paul comments on the children of the flesh as well.

Romans 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Muhammad's Mecca based religious rituals are adopted, then adapted, pagan Arabian moon, sun, star and jinn-demon worship rituals. Muhammad's followers even prostrating themselves toward the pagan Quraish's Ka'aba, and their black stone idol, 5 times a day. Please see the videos on the "History of Mecca" and the "Hajj and Umrah" for more.

We find his seed today are as prophesied of Ishmael ...

Genesis 16:12 And he will be a wild man; his hand [will be] against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

John's beast is described as "like unto a leopard" perhaps indicating that this Islamic "beast" kingdom cannot change.

Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? [then] may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

The the Islamic beast's historical record of rape, pillage and plunder of imperialistic conquest all the way up to France and Austria, as well as the evil perpetrated by Muhammad's followers all around the world today with over 16,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks just since 9-11 as meticulously logged by the folks at TheReligionOfPeace.com, by way of confirmation.
 
The following sketch map illustrates the seat Satan gave his Islamic kingdom "beast", and the countries that occupy that seat today.



When a Muslim confesses that Jesus Christ is the Son of God he has committed the most egregious, and only unpardonable, sin in Muhammad's stand-alone 7th century religion. This sin against Muhammad's "Allah" is known as "shirk".
However in the new covenant we understand...

1John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

From the Quran Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

Thus Muhammad's followers are all filled with the spirit of antichrist.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

All Muslims are also required to deny the sacrifice and shed blood of the Messiah, Yahshua ...

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

Thus seven hundred years after the Messiah was revealed through all of his apostles and witnesses, a lone false prophet out of the sands of the southwest Arabian desert 1200 kilometers away from the Holy Land of the prophets and patriarchs, declared the exact opposite of the whole subject of Gospel, and the new covenant ushered in by the Messiah. Satan through his prophet Muhammad filling his followers with complete resolve as to what to DISbelieve, while leaving a complete vacuum as to just who DID die on the cross.

Indeed through Islam's own books Muhammad is revealed as much the direct opposite of the Messiah, the Prince of Peace, the Lamb of God, as Muhammad's stand-alone 7th century religion is to Christianity, and as opposite as his "Allah" was to Yahweh.

Surah 9.30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Muhammad even ordering up his alter-ego "Allah's" curse on Yahweh's people, as if invoking some kind of voodoo incantation. It's obvious that Muhammad's "Allah" and Yahweh - the "I AM" - of scripture, cannot possibly be the same God. Please see the video "Allah Moon God?" for more.

Muslims must even reject the geographically sound scriptural account of Abraham and his family, that is evermore confirmed by archaeology, because they are taught the preposterous notion that somehow Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael wandered their way across 1200 kilometers of harsh desert from Hebron to Mecca, about 900 years before the first caravan was ever able to make the trip, and about 1,500 years before Mecca was ever established. Please see the "Ishmael, Hagar, Paran & Mecca" video for more on that subject.

Here is a map of the greatest tragedy to ever befall mankind detailing the spiritual condition of the composite leopard-bear-lion Islamic "beast" today:



The "beast's" ongoing conquests including the killing of over 2 million innocents in the Sudan alone. Following the father of lies through his prophet they must bend their minds to pretend that the history of Islamic first Jihad imperialistic conquest murder, sexual abuse of prisoners, and theft of the property of others, all the way up to France and Austria never happened. Pretend that the over 16,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks around the world by true followers of Muhammad, just since 9-11, are somehow not perfectly consistent with Islamic history and the goals and behavior of their own prophet. Please see the "Jihad" video for more on that subject.

To my Christian brothers and sisters might it be time to take a fresh look at the book of Revelation, and the identity of the false prophet mentioned therein, through the traditional continuous-historic context? Have latter day eschatologies popularized in the 20th century "church" made Islam invisible, and thus our task at hand obscured regarding not only the plight of Muhammad's sorely deceived followers, but the plight of our own brothers and sisters that the Islamic "beast" is killing and persecuting all around the world today?

To our Muslim friends, please visit the YouTube channel muslims4jesus and watch some testimonials of former Muslims who have come to know the love of the one true God Yahweh, through the Messiah, Yahshua.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Peter

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Re: THE BEAST OF REVELATION 13
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2011, 04:16:02 PM »
Video drop-down menu

http://www.beholdthebeast.com
http://www.israelinbibleprophecy.com
http://www.historyofmecca.com
666, Quran & Muhammad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj2tY3jZL3M
Gaza & Israel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZF93B2iQHA
History of Mecca
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq8VOZbuu-Q
Hajj and Umrah - The Kaaba & Twaf (part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10gvT0AC-cs
Hajj and Umrah - Al-Safa and Al-Marwah (part 2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfWy5KaFvbU
Hajj and Umrah - Arafat Mina (part 3)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj_lLKLjPWE
antichrist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w71CtxLdjio
Ahmed Deedat on antichrist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDslsWDzPIc
The Blood
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK3Rgcw5lDw
The name "Allah" - Moon god?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slLBam06iyg
Ishmael, Hagar, Paran & Mecca
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh5E--IlCKk
Hitler and the Islamic Mufti of Jerusalem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxPDTGvGQqM
Muhammad's Night Journey
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twwVjrhagL0
JIHAD!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9FYYo5EINU
EXTREMELY GRAPHIC video of Muslim on Muslim violence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKWBr2CLFjY
Origins of Fables & Myths - Skolfield
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grPwQ2obbFA
PROOF OF GOD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ManZPZeROdc
God Manifest as a Man (more than once)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cjXj6TMOAM
Quran's Inspiration
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEYbJxylA2s
Where do the Qibla of the oldest mosques point to?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pO4COKGFs8

Matthew 26:28 For this is MY BLOOD of the new testament, which is SHED FOR MANY for the remission of sins.

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation THROUGH FAITH IN HIS BLOOD, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

1John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] HE THAT HATH NOT THE SON OF GOD HATH NOT LIFE.

1John 5:10 He that BELIEVETH ON THE SON OF GOD hath the witness in himself: HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT GOD HATH MADE HIM A LIAR; because HE BELIEVED NOT THE RECORD that God gave OF HIS SON.

1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? HE IS ANTICHRIST, THAT DENIETH the Father and THE SON. 23 WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE FATHER:

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT THE SON SHALL NOT SEE LIFE, BUT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDETH ON HIM.

fernmessagenotgood

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Re: THE BEAST OF REVELATION 13
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2012, 07:30:26 AM »
Regarding the empire of the beast I have some questions. Your video was very informative, and I read the Biblical book of Revelation in light of knowledge of the Mahdi, and it made sense in a weird sort of way. I'm currently neither Muslim nor Christian, but even if I have a slight bias against Islam I did note a potential flaw in the idea of a revived caliphate, or maybe I'm just interpreting the information wrongly.

Are the criteria for an "Empire of the Beast" just that it rules Israel for a period of time or does it actually have to bring down the previous Empire Of The Beast; which criteria needs to be fufiled first? The thing is, I noted there were caliphates before Ottomans, (the Ottoman Empire was the empire that brought down the Byzantines). I'm fine with the Byzantines being the 6th Empire Of The Beast because there are essentially Romans and the "empire that is" in the New Testament. The thing that god me, is that first you have a caliphates from the Arabian peninsula, i.e. Muhammad's successors, and they ruled over Jerusalem too, as the map shows but did not succeed in bringing down the Byzantines, but instead exploited the weakness of the Persians.

I'm not sure if the Ottoman Empire can be classed as one the same because it was founded amongst Turkic peoples rather than Arabs, unless of course one melded into the other. Perhaps I have my history wrong, but I was under the impression that the Ottoman caliphate was a separate entity to the Islamic empires that came before it.  Unless of course the Empire Of The Beast should rule over Jerusalem first and then taken down the previous Empire Of The Beast

The Bible mentions that the 8th beast empire will be a revived 7th beast empire that will come from the area surrounding the Turkey/Persia border (leopard, bear and lion) and the Ottomans meet this criterion as well as that of ruling over Jerusalem and they were the ones who brought down the Byzantines. The Bible also says the Antichrist will murder Jews and Christians, which the Ottomans did too. The Ottomans slaughtered many Eastern Europeans and allowed the Armenian, Assyrian and Greek genocides to take place, and took many Saqaliba as well as being a major player in the  Arab slave trade..

At the moment I'm of the impression the Biblical prophecy has been partly fufiled because the Ottoman Empire seems to meet some of the criteria of the 8th Empire Of The Beast, but at the same time I think this is wrong and I need form clarification because the Rashidun, 632–661, and Umayyads, 7th–8th centuries, and Abbasid Caliphate and Fatimid Caliphates, 8th to 13th century, all rule over Jerusalem. The Muslim Brotherhood seems quite popular at the moment so I could well be wrong with my interpration of the evidence.
I'm not Christian or Muslim.
My name is an anagrammatic reference to the words: "not a messenger of god" because ferns, along with any other living things that breed asexually, such as fungi, viruses, bacteria, coral and many other types of plant, like mosses and even some animals, defy Koran 51:49

Peter

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Re: THE BEAST OF REVELATION 13
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2012, 08:05:57 AM »
Hi fern and welcome to the forum! :)
After YouTube was changed by Google it made things very difficult. Do you mind if I ask how you found the video?
Regarding the empire of the beast I have some questions. Your video was very informative, and I read the Biblical book of Revelation in light of knowledge of the Mahdi, ........
There is no "knowledge" of the Mahdi as that is a prophecy of a one-eyed boogeyman that sprang from Muhammad's imagination. Besides other prophecies that were false, (like the end of the world 500 years after his coming) we can know we can ignore all of his prophecies because, since Islam is the exact opposite of Christianity, either Muhammad was a false prophet, or all of the prophets of the 1600 year record of YHWH to mankind that His people have followed through two covenants for 3500 years, were false prophets. We don't hardly need to seek out a single "The" "Antichrist" when there are 1.5 billion antichrists in Islam alone.
Indeed for Christians that follow doctrines of a single "The" "Antichrist", the similarity between that concept and Muhammad's fantasy should give them pause to seriously consider the veracity of their eschatology.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/antichrist.htm

Peter

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Re: THE BEAST OF REVELATION 13
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2012, 08:15:11 AM »
....... and it made sense in a weird sort of way. I'm currently neither Muslim nor Christian, but even if I have a slight bias against Islam .........
I think we can help with that. Google - history of Mecca - and collect all of the historical and archaeological record you can find on the subject. As stunning as it is, and as you will discover in your search, there is not a shred of historical or archaeological evidence that suggests that Mecca ever existed before the 4th century AD when pagan immigrants from Yemen settled the area, and built their kaaba in the early 5th century for Arabian Star Family and jinn-devil worship.
Yet Islamic so-called "tradition" - that was all created and put to the pen in the 7th to 10th centuries AD without reference to any actual historical record that preceded the 5th century AD - suggests that the history of Mecca dates back to Adam. That Adam actually built the Kaaba!
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=56.0
......... I did note a potential flaw in the idea of a revived caliphate, or maybe I'm just interpreting the information wrongly.

Are the criteria for an "Empire of the Beast" just that it rules Israel for a period of time or does it actually have to bring down the previous Empire Of The Beast; which criteria needs to be fufiled first? The thing is, I noted there were caliphates before Ottomans, (the Ottoman Empire was the empire that brought down the Byzantines). I'm fine with the Byzantines being the 6th Empire Of The Beast because there are essentially Romans and the "empire that is" in the New Testament.
If you understand that the Roman Empire is the kingdom that "is" to John, then it's easy to see that it was conquered by Islam during the First Islamic Jihad as the 7th beast, and the Second Islamic Jihad we witness today is the 8th beast. A collateral part of the 7th beast the "head" that was wounded to death in the Battle of Tours, then healed by western wealth transfer in oil purchase. The power of the beast.
Please visit the thread on John's 8 beasts at the following link. Scroll down to the sketch maps for a quick overview of the succession of kingdoms that ruled John's "whole world". This is a matter of historical record, including the "two horned" beast that ruled in the presence of the Islamic beast for part of the time.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=13.0

Peter

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Re: THE BEAST OF REVELATION 13
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2012, 08:21:59 AM »
The thing that god me, is that first you have a caliphates from the Arabian peninsula, i.e. Muhammad's successors, and they ruled over Jerusalem too, as the map shows but did not succeed in bringing down the Byzantines, but instead exploited the weakness of the Persians.

I'm not sure if the Ottoman Empire can be classed as one the same because it was founded amongst Turkic peoples rather than Arabs, unless of course one melded into the other. Perhaps I have my history wrong, but I was under the impression that the Ottoman caliphate was a separate entity to the Islamic empires that came before it.  Unless of course the Empire Of The Beast should rule over Jerusalem first and then taken down the previous Empire Of The Beast

The Bible mentions that the 8th beast empire will be a revived 7th beast empire that will come from the area surrounding the Turkey/Persia border (leopard, bear and lion) and the Ottomans meet this criterion as well as that of ruling over Jerusalem and they were the ones who brought down the Byzantines. The Bible also says the Antichrist will murder Jews and Christians, which the Ottomans did too. The Ottomans slaughtered many Eastern Europeans and allowed the Armenian, Assyrian and Greek genocides to take place, and took many Saqaliba as well as being a major player in the  Arab slave trade..

At the moment I'm of the impression the Biblical prophecy has been partly fufiled because the Ottoman Empire seems to meet some of the criteria of the 8th Empire Of The Beast, .........
The Ottoman Empire left Israel in a state of physical and spiritual desolation, as well as depopulated by the beginning of the 19th century.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=553.0
.......... but at the same time I think this is wrong and I need form clarification because the Rashidun, 632–661, and Umayyads, 7th–8th centuries, and Abbasid Caliphate and Fatimid Caliphates, 8th to 13th century, all rule over Jerusalem. The Muslim Brotherhood seems quite popular at the moment so I could well be wrong with my interpration of the evidence.
Again, welcome to the forum! :)

fernmessagenotgood

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Re: THE BEAST OF REVELATION 13
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2012, 03:40:03 AM »
....... and it made sense in a weird sort of way. I'm currently neither Muslim nor Christian, but even if I have a slight bias against Islam .........
I think we can help with that. Google - history of Mecca - and collect all of the historical and archaeological record you can find on the subject. As stunning as it is, and as you will discover in your search, there is not a shred of historical or archaeological evidence that suggests that Mecca ever existed before the 4th century AD when pagan immigrants from Yemen settled the area, and built their kaaba in the early 5th century for Arabian Star Family and jinn-devil worship.

Actually I already knew all that. I have written about it here:
http://pastebin.com/2T2JaAZ7
I have a section discussing the various responses I've had to the question of Mecca and its Kaaba. (I'm not Hindu either by the way) but I tell them the ancient Hindu city city of Lord Krishna (Dwarka) can still be found despite being flooded thousands of years ago because some seem to think Mecca was destroyed in a "great sandstorm" but there is no proof of such a sandstorm or Mecca.

In addition, to that in the article I have a section discussing the various similarities between Islam and Hinduism, since Muslims think the Christian trinity is from Hinduism. That could be another video. Also, I was told the language barriers of the New Testament would mean it is corrupted; I'm not sure if you can see where I'm going with this but essentially it was because it was written in Greek and Jesus spoke Aramaic. I don't think you have a video discussing that point, which if you look at history Greek was a very important language of the Roman period so I'm inclined to think the point raised is a non-issue.

The article I have written almost 20,000 words long but I feel there are some things you may find useful, like the idea that the holy Sanskrit letter "OM" (from Hinduism) is on Arabic copies of the Koran as the Arabic for the number 786. This is in spite of fact the Muslims claim Islam to be the least Pagan religion.
I'm not Christian or Muslim.
My name is an anagrammatic reference to the words: "not a messenger of god" because ferns, along with any other living things that breed asexually, such as fungi, viruses, bacteria, coral and many other types of plant, like mosses and even some animals, defy Koran 51:49

fernmessagenotgood

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Re: THE BEAST OF REVELATION 13
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2012, 09:00:44 AM »
Hi fern and welcome to the forum! :)
After YouTube was changed by Google it made things very difficult. Do you mind if I ask how you found the video?
Regarding any videos, I first found the video about Mecca and then I went on tool look at your other ones.
I probably should have posted an introduction first, but oh well. I was also reading this.
I was also wondering how I access the place to edit my forum profile because I can seem to find it anywhere, and there are no links in the questions section. My username is an anagrammatic reference to a certain combination of words because ferns defy a certain verse in the Koran (51:49 because ferns don't need to be in pairs to breed as they breed asexually using spores) and I want to let everyone know.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2012, 09:07:36 AM by fernmessagenotgood »
I'm not Christian or Muslim.
My name is an anagrammatic reference to the words: "not a messenger of god" because ferns, along with any other living things that breed asexually, such as fungi, viruses, bacteria, coral and many other types of plant, like mosses and even some animals, defy Koran 51:49

Peter

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Re: THE BEAST OF REVELATION 13
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2012, 09:35:10 AM »
Hi fern and welcome to the forum! :)
After YouTube was changed by Google it made things very difficult. Do you mind if I ask how you found the video?
Regarding any videos, I first found the video about Mecca and then I went on tool look at your other ones.
I probably should have posted an introduction first, but oh well. I was also reading this.
I was also wondering how I access the place to edit my forum profile because I can seem to find it anywhere, and there are no links in the questions section. My username is an anagrammatic reference to a certain combination of words because ferns defy a certain verse in the Koran (51:49 because ferns don't need to be in pairs to breed as they breed asexually using spores) and I want to let everyone know.
We had some past abuses regarding advertizing, content and size. Since there doesn't seem to be any current threat I think I fixed it so you can. Please let me know if you still can't accomplish what you want to.

Peter

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Re: THE BEAST OF REVELATION 13
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2012, 09:38:04 AM »
....... and it made sense in a weird sort of way. I'm currently neither Muslim nor Christian, but even if I have a slight bias against Islam .........
I think we can help with that. Google - history of Mecca - and collect all of the historical and archaeological record you can find on the subject. As stunning as it is, and as you will discover in your search, there is not a shred of historical or archaeological evidence that suggests that Mecca ever existed before the 4th century AD when pagan immigrants from Yemen settled the area, and built their kaaba in the early 5th century for Arabian Star Family and jinn-devil worship.

Actually I already knew all that. I have written about it here:
http://pastebin.com/2T2JaAZ7
I just started it and will read it when I get more time, however we have a forum section devoted to other religions, and subjects like reincarnation etc.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=13.0

I did notice:
"The reason I use the word Muhammadan extensively over the words Muslim or Islam is explained in section 9b."
I still sometimes use that perhaps more historical term, but some Muslims find it offensive, and I don't think offending them will help win them to Christ (which is my purpose). The substitute I use to isolate them and punctuate that they follow Muhammad alone, is "followers of Muhammad". They cannot complain or argue since that's what Muhammad himself called them. Not a single Muslim has taken issue with me on that (though a Christian did!).
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2656.0

I noticed a bit on 786 in your 9b. Are you familiar with the gematria of "submission" and 666?

"This book is the Quran; and the Quran is '666.'"
"The truth is that This Quran is the 666" "GOD made His Messenger a witness with the letter Qaf and the number 666."
"The sum of sura numbers from Sura 1 to Sura 36 is 666 (Table 7).""
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/islam__quran_and_666.htm

"In the Quran, 666 , the First verse is ; In the Name of GOD, Most Gracious , Most Merciful
This important statement consists of 19 Arabic letters. The G.value of this verse is 786.
666   786       (19x35094)
6:114...Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?
Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully.
You shall not harbor any doubt.
666 + 6 + 114 = 786
In the Qaf table, there is 786 th word of GOD at 786 th verse, in the Quran."
etc. etc.
http://www.petewaldo.com/quran_666.htm
I have a section discussing the various responses I've had to the question of Mecca and its Kaaba. (I'm not Hindu either by the way) but I tell them the ancient Hindu city city of Lord Krishna (Dwarka) can still be found despite being flooded thousands of years ago because some seem to think Mecca was destroyed in a "great sandstorm" but there is no proof of such a sandstorm or Mecca.

In addition, to that in the article I have a section discussing the various similarities between Islam and Hinduism, since Muslims think the Christian trinity is from Hinduism. That could be another video. Also, I was told the language barriers of the New Testament would mean it is corrupted; ......
Actually, the same message, in all of the early manuscripts in all of the various languages is how we can know it's not.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=97.0
....... I'm not sure if you can see where I'm going with this but essentially it was because it was written in Greek and Jesus spoke Aramaic. I don't think you have a video discussing that point, which if you look at history Greek was a very important language of the Roman period so I'm inclined to think the point raised is a non-issue.
Indeed. Jesus addressing a crowd in Aramaic would be akin to a U.S. businessman addressing a conference in Yiddish! More on the textual integrity of scripture in the following forum section.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=68.0
The article I have written almost 20,000 words long but I feel there are some things you may find useful, like the idea that the holy Sanskrit letter "OM" (from Hinduism) is on Arabic copies of the Koran as the Arabic for the number 786. This is in spite of fact the Muslims claim Islam to be the least Pagan religion.

fernmessagenotgood

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Re: THE BEAST OF REVELATION 13
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2012, 10:23:47 AM »
I did notice:
"The reason I use the word Muhammadan extensively over the words Muslim or Islam is explained in section 9b."
I still sometimes use that perhaps more historical term, but some Muslims find it offensive, and I don't think offending them will help win them to Christ (which is my purpose). The substitute I use to isolate them and punctuate that they follow Muhammad alone, is "followers of Muhammad". They cannot complain or argue since that's what Muhammad himself called them. Not a single Muslim has taken issue with me on that (though a Christian did!).
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2656.0
Actually, the same message, in all of the early manuscripts in all of the various languages is how we can know it's not.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=97.0
....... I'm not sure if you can see where I'm going with this but essentially it was because it was written in Greek and Jesus spoke Aramaic. I don't think you have a video discussing that point, which if you look at history Greek was a very important language of the Roman period so I'm inclined to think the point raised is a non-issue.
Indeed. Jesus addressing a crowd in Aramaic would be akin to a U.S. businessman addressing a conference in Yiddish! More on the textual integrity of scripture in the following forum section.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=68.0
I opted to use the word Muhammadan because Muslims need to invoke the name of Muhammad if they want salvation, in a similar fashion to Christians needing to invoke the name of Jesus. No other prophet is mentioned by name in the Shahada for example, and Allah even swore by Muhammad's life in the Koran. Koran (part of 15:72): "By thy life (O Muhammad)..."
However, in terms of trying to win over Muslims, I consider this no worse than citing thereligionofpeace.com as source, as you did because I consider it a propaganda site. This could be my own bias, because terrorism is not the main reason for my dislike of Islam. They didn't give the full picture on the Muslims in Burma, so although a portion of the Muslim community are clear liars (like Zakir Naik and Yusuf Estes) and/or violent, perhaps just deluded, I think the site is too biased. I feel a bit strange saying that because I know Muslims have their own sites which they use to brainwash people. You have to fight fire with fire I guess. This is a minor thing, and I'm not in a position to question any statistics provided by the site, and a lot of what they post is true even if I do have a problem with certain articles.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2012, 10:28:36 AM by fernmessagenotgood »
I'm not Christian or Muslim.
My name is an anagrammatic reference to the words: "not a messenger of god" because ferns, along with any other living things that breed asexually, such as fungi, viruses, bacteria, coral and many other types of plant, like mosses and even some animals, defy Koran 51:49

Peter

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Re: THE BEAST OF REVELATION 13
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2012, 10:36:32 AM »
I did notice:
"The reason I use the word Muhammadan extensively over the words Muslim or Islam is explained in section 9b."
I still sometimes use that perhaps more historical term, but some Muslims find it offensive, and I don't think offending them will help win them to Christ (which is my purpose). The substitute I use to isolate them and punctuate that they follow Muhammad alone, is "followers of Muhammad". They cannot complain or argue since that's what Muhammad himself called them. Not a single Muslim has taken issue with me on that (though a Christian did!).
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2656.0
Actually, the same message, in all of the early manuscripts in all of the various languages is how we can know it's not.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=97.0
....... I'm not sure if you can see where I'm going with this but essentially it was because it was written in Greek and Jesus spoke Aramaic. I don't think you have a video discussing that point, which if you look at history Greek was a very important language of the Roman period so I'm inclined to think the point raised is a non-issue.
Indeed. Jesus addressing a crowd in Aramaic would be akin to a U.S. businessman addressing a conference in Yiddish! More on the textual integrity of scripture in the following forum section.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=68.0
I opted to use the word Muhammadan because Muslims need to invoke the name of Muhammad if they want salvation, in a similar fashion to Christians needing to invoke the name of Jesus. No other prophet is mentioned by name in the Shahada for example, and Allah even swore by Muhammad's life in the Koran. Koran (part of 15:72): "By thy life (O Muhammad)..."
However, in terms of trying to win over Muslims, I consider this no worse than citing thereligionofpeace.com as source, as you did because I consider it a propaganda site. This could be my own bias, because terrorism is not the main reason for my dislike of Islam. They didn't give the full picture on the Muslims in Burma, so although a portion of the Muslim community are clear liars (like Zakir Naik and Yusuf Estes) and/or violent, perhaps just deluded, I think the site is too biased. I feel a bit strange saying that because I know Muslims have their own sites which they use to brainwash people. You have to fight fire with fire I guess. This is a minor thing, and I'm not in a position to question any statistics provided by the site, and a lot of what they post is true even if I do have a problem with certain articles.
I'm glad someone is keeping count. And you can see they do a pretty meticulous job of it if you scrolled down the home page and/or search their archives. Links provided on this thread:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=731.0