THE TRUE STORY OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE OF MECCA (Kaaba)

[Peter]

Let me clear up the Black stone story for you.
I for one don't venerate it, ...........

That's the problem with having no firm convictions from being set adrift, rudderless, in a sea of falsehood.
Just a few posts ago you wrote
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1079.msg6398#msg6398

Dear Peter, well actually thank you Peter
You have been inspirational, I started to ask questions and found very interesting answers
Yes the stone is venerated by all Muslims and I have to ask why and the reason is that the pagans did it and where did they get it from, well apparently the Indians have the answer,

[Peter]

YOU have not once prayed for me in this FORUM, shows ho little you care for the advice of Jesus.

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

I've prayed for you over and over. What you are really asking is why don't I pray so that I may be seen of men the way the Pharisees loved to do, and Muslims love to do as well. In other words, why don't I put on a show for you.

Mat 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites [are]: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of  men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Islam - always the EXACT OPPOSITE.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=148.0

AP - December 06, 2006 MOGADISHU, Somalia - "Residents of a southern Somalia town who do not pray five times a day will be beheaded, an Islamic courts official said Wednesday, adding the edict will be implemented in three days."

[Peter]

No more distractions. You have a task before you AnnaMuslim. You made several accusations. Now it's time to back them up beginning with this one.

Dear Peter

Everything I type is relevant and not spam, you have so little understanding that I have to begin at the basics in order for you to grasp simple Religious concepts, before you are able to understand your role as a human being.You are not a person that listens to logic, you only listen to European and Americanized logic and that makes you a racist, you refute evidence from Hindus and Arabs and Persians that the Ka'aba existed long before Christianity, you present opinions as evidence. Most disturbing is that you quote from the Quran and Hadith out context and verses you have no knowledge of, you act out of ignorance, and your disrespect is not dialogue.  

http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1079.msg6416#msg6416

Where did I "refute" the "evidence" that you claim I refuted? How can one refute something that one hasn't seen?

Where is the evidence from the Hindus, Arabs and Persians to which you refer?
Please bring the EVIDENCE, and post it at the following thread link so we can compare the EVIDENCE.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1138.0

I of course mean historical evidence. Not that 7th and 8th century created Islamic historical fiction penned by those like Ishak and Tabari, but the actual historical record, recorded by those living in or near the times during which it is recorded.

[Peter]

The historians cannot find evidence for Makkah because they are believing the wrong people, any evidence would be destroyed, not preserved .....

Or are you here later saying that you built your false accusation against me on a purely fabricated lie, regarding the "evidence from Hindus and Arabs and Persians" that you claimed I "refuted"?
In this quote here you seem to suggest that you yourself actually agree there is no historical or archaeological record of Mecca, ever having existed prior to the 4th century AD.

Was your false accusation against me taqiyyah intended to fool onlookers gullible enough to buy into your fabrication?
Simply admit that it was a false accusation against me, based on a lie, and we can move on to your false accusation of racism.
Were you just duped into believing somebody else's lie that you then based your false accusation on? If so please provide the source.
Otherwise you are under obligation to present the "....evidence from Hindus and Arabs and Persians that the Ka'aba existed long before Christianity ...." that you claimed I "refuted".

[Peter]

At long last AnnaMuslim finally posts his heathen Hindu "proof" of his heathen Islamic religion. Moved to the thread I had requested it be posted in.
Absent a single shred of historical, archaeological, or geographical evidence.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1138.msg6476#msg6476

Ever unable to bring himself to answer simple questions like this one, posed in this thread, because the implications are so horrific.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1079.msg6355#msg6355

[Peter]

So when you fail to support, much less admit to, let alone apologize for, this false accusation .....

..... you refute evidence from Hindus and Arabs and Persians that the Ka'aba existed long before Christianity ...

In the end, instead of bringing the evidence to support your false accusatioin, you change the subject and announce that you don't want to pursue the subject of the history of Islam - of course for obvious reasons - because there isn't any that isn't pure 7th and 8th century fiction.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1138.msg6526#msg6526

Further demonstrating that Muslim men become sociopathic from following Mohammed.
Demonstrated here as well
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=466.msg6417#msg6417

One would think that just Mohammed's carnal "paradise" of wine, chicken and multiple virgins to defile, would be enough to turn any intelligent 21st century man away from Mohammed's phony and reprobate "religion".
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=264.0
Mohammed's promise of virgins to defile not only in heaven, but also innocent children of the vanquished here on earth to defile, to keep his reprobate murderous, prisoner rapist, thieving thugs in Mohammed's service.  
What do Mohammedan's wives think about their husbands longing to defile virgins in "paradise", with some even killing themselves in murderous attacks against innocent people, to advance the prospects.
What do Mohammedan women get in heaven? To cook the chicken?

"..... you only listen to European and Americanized logic and that makes you a racist,...."

Another false accusation. You yourself know I have had to suffer at least your failed "logic" for some time now.
To what European "logic" do you refer?
To what American "logic" do you refer?
What "race" is Islam?

[Peter]

The worship you talk about is not of the Black Stone....

Was the black stone one of the 360 idols that the pagans venerated at the kaaba before Mohammed?

Yes or no?

I seek refuge in ALLAH from satan
I begin in the name of ALLAH the most merciful the most benefcent
All praise is due to ALLAH the creator of the entire Univerese


Dear peter
I obviously dont know how to answer you,....

That's right, you don't know how to answer because the ugly truth is apparent. You have no love of truth but rather a love of lies, because you follow the father of lies - Satan - through his prophet Mohammed.

The answer, of course, is a simple and undeniable "YES"!
You VENERATE, by bowing toward and circumambulating, the very same black stone idol that was one of the 360 idols that the pagans venerated and circumambulated before Mohammed.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1050.15

How is it that you seem to believe that simply repeating false nonsense, that you copy and pasted again, will somehow magically make it come true?
Even repeat posting Gibbon's misunderstanding of the very historical record that you denigrated!

.....regarding historical and archeological evidence from pagans, it is obviously a test of my emaan (faith) and a clear indication of your (Kufr) you do not present evidence that Makkah did not exist othre than the speculations of Dr Amari that he gets from pagan greek and Roman writers, and many scholars differ from his opinion and contradict everything he says:

Next AnnaMuslim goes on to quote the 7th century Quran of all things!

I am moving your repeat post to spam where you can revisit it.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1562.0
Please copy and paste, ONE AT A TIME, any points that were not already addressed the last times you posted it.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1132.msg6464#msg6464
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1138.15
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1539.msg6488#msg6488

You invited questions about Islam, but then you don't answer them. Why do you suppose that is?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1138.msg6529#msg6529

Otherwise you are under obligation to present the "....evidence from Hindus and Arabs and Persians that the Ka'aba existed long before Christianity ...." that you claimed I "refuted".

DID YOU READ THE HINDU ACCOUNTS OF HOW THEY BELIEVE THE KA'ABA TO BE A HINDU TEMPLE FROM ABOUT 7000 YEARS AGO, THAT ARABIA ONCE WAS PART OF THE HINDUSTAN EMPIRE?

So far, AFTER you made your false accusation against me, all you presented was a 1990 MUSLIM'S false exegesis of Hindu scriptures and litany of false presumptions that followed.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1138.msg6476#msg6476
Just like the false exegesis that you engaged in
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1138.msg6366#msg6366

Before bringing it you suggested that I "refuted" "evidence". Of course you had not presented evidence, nor to my knowledge does such evidence exist. So how could I have "refuted" it?
A late 20th century pop-paper spun by a Muslim on Hindu scripture - without historical reference - is no more historical than the Islamic history creators of the 7th and 8th century Hadith fiction, before him.

Like the Islamic "Gee even though they were written over a thousand years apart, the HEBREW name Baca, is kinda like the ARABIC name Bakka, so well, if we suggest that the name Bakka really means Mecca, then, golly that must mean the the Old Testament is referring to the temple Mecca that is 1200 miles from the temple in Jerusalem! Yea like dat! Let's ignore the rest of the context and present our "proof"!"
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1313.0

[AnnaMuslim]

Re: THE TRUE STORY OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE OF MECCA - Reply #44 on: July 06, 2010, 09:29:24 AM � Quote Quote from: AnnaMuslim on July 05, 2010, 04:28:34 PM ... you only listen to European and Americanized logic and that makes you a racist, you refute evidence from Hindus and Arabs and Persians that the Ka'aba existed long before Christianity... Two points I would like to address. 1. At what point does disagreeing with someone make them a racist? 2. You haven't presented any evidence. You have just shared opinion and presupposition. When confronted with verses from the koran and hadith that have consistently shown Muhammad to be immoral and his religion a pagan rip-off you obfuscate instead of actually answering questions. In the future keep personal attacks to yourself or at least be prepared to give evidence of their validity.

MY POINT WITH MY COPYING AND PASTING IS THAT MANY SY MANY THINGS WITHOUT MERIT LIKE DR RAFAT< IW ASTED MY TIME READING HIS OPINION OF GREEK AND ROMAN WRITERS THAT HAVE BOOKS FRO CHURCH SCOLARS THAT HAS HAD TIME TO ALTER COPIES OF DOMENTS THAT ARE NOT EXISTENCE. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE Required, Your word can hardly standup against the word of the MAN that has the tilte of ALAMEEN.

Reading Dr Rafat Amari's highly opinionated (he says that he comes to conclusions) based on inconclusive evidence of pagan Greek and roman writers work that has been copied by scholars and translated by others,edited and in many cases interpretted (phrases like we assume that the writer means this or that place) with no cklarity wahtso, ever, DR RAFAT makes his assumptions as easily as one would say that the sea is blue and the earth is blue therefore it must be same thing, BRING ME EVIDENCE THAT THE SKY IS NOT THE SAME AS THE BLUE OCEAN)

WELL PETER AND DR RAFAT YOUR LOGIC IN MOST CASES would appeal TO THE IGNORANT, the DISBELIEVER OR PEOPLE THAT DESIRE TO ASCRIBE PARTNERS TO ALLAH (MUSHRIHK)

COMPLETE YOUR INVESTIGATION BEFORE YOU MAKE FALSE ALLEGATIONS< SPEAK TO THE PEOPLE AT THE TOPKAPI MUSEUM< SPEAK TO PEOPLE IN SAUDI ARABIA< AND PRESENT THE ARGUMENT FULLY NOT READ A COUPLE OF ALTERED DOCUMENTS AND MAKE A FALSE CLAIM BASED ON YOUR EMOTIONAL COPNDITIONING!!!!!

OR DONT YOU CONSIDER THAT THE TRUTH CAN COME FROM PERSION AND INDIAN SCHOLARS??

DONT ASK LAYMEN TO BRING EVIDENCE IF YOU SUCH A CELEBRATED SCHOLAR>

YOU DID NOT CONTACT THE SOURCE<THE HOLDERS OF ISLAMIC RELICS AND ARTIFACTS< I BELIEVE THAT TOPKAPI HOLDS ABOUT 650.

THEN PRESENT YOUR ARGUMENT.

[Peter]

Re: THE TRUE STORY OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE OF MECCA - Reply #44 on: July 06, 2010, 09:29:24 AM � Quote Quote from: AnnaMuslim on July 05, 2010, 04:28:34 PM ... you only listen to European and Americanized logic and that makes you a racist, you refute evidence from Hindus and Arabs and Persians that the Ka'aba existed long before Christianity... Two points I would like to address. 1. At what point does disagreeing with someone make them a racist? 2. You haven't presented any evidence. You have just shared opinion and presupposition. When confronted with verses from the koran and hadith that have consistently shown Muhammad to be immoral and his religion a pagan rip-off you obfuscate instead of actually answering questions. In the future keep personal attacks to yourself or at least be prepared to give evidence of their validity.

MY POINT WITH MY COPYING AND PASTING IS THAT MANY SY MANY THINGS WITHOUT MERIT LIKE DR RAFAT< IW ASTED MY TIME READING HIS OPINION OF GREEK AND ROMAN WRITERS THAT HAVE BOOKS FRO CHURCH SCOLARS THAT HAS HAD TIME TO ALTER COPIES OF DOMENTS THAT ARE NOT EXISTENCE. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE Required, Your word can hardly standup against the word of the MAN that has the tilte of ALAMEEN.

Reading Dr Rafat Amari's highly opinionated (he says that he comes to conclusions) based on inconclusive evidence of pagan Greek and roman writers work that has been copied by scholars and translated by others,edited and in many cases interpretted (phrases like we assume that the writer means this or that place) with no cklarity wahtso, ever,....

That's the difficulty when a person is adrift without a rudder in a sea of falsehood. Truth has to be declared lies, and lies have to be declared truth.
Not long ago you were delighted to quote some of the very same historians you now condemn, in a ridiculous effort to suggest that they made reference the Meccan Ka'aba prior to the 4th century AD.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1132.msg6464#msg6464

But now you reject the very same historians, along with the rest of recorded history, because you are compelled to believe the 7th and 8th century created Mohammedan historical fiction, which is, of course absolutely incompatible with the actual historical record.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1121.0

But since then maybe you've finally learned that in order to follow Mohammed's STAND-ALONE thinly repackaged paganism, it is necessary to devoid one's mind of history, archaeology, geography and scripture, until one's mind matches that of a 7th century illiterate. But unfortunately for you Muslims failed in their effort to destroy prior recorded history.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1121.0

[Peter]

I am moving your post to spam until you segregate the portion related to this thread, from the portion that engages in gratuitous and unrelated bashing of God's 1600 year record.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1562.msg6610#msg6610

You can copy and paste the related portion back into this thread, and you can copy and paste and post the Scripture bashing on the related thread at this link.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=97.0

[Peter]

Baseless slander of the Quran and the Hadith does not make you scholar it makes you a slanderer and a liar.

But that's simply not true, and the truth is very simple. The BASIS of the whole point is that the Quran and Hadith were written in the 7th and 8th century AD, but Mohammed and his boys pretended it to be a historical record of times long before, with no foundation in any actual historical record whatsoever.

History isn't something that men sit down and decide to CREATE thousands of years AFTER THE FACT. History is recorded by those that live in or near the times that are written about.
Islamic "history" is provably nothing more than fiction - a fantasy - because nothing about it regards any actual record from before the "year of the elephant" (around Mohammed's birthday) when Muslims BEGAN recording Islamic history.

[PeteWaldo]

bump (22,000 views!)

[PeteWaldo]

Here's yet another Kaaba fable I was unfamiliar with:
http://sfbasic.org/site/true_islam/kaaba/yemeni_corner_of_kaaba.php