Author Topic: man of sin & son of perdition  (Read 2962 times)

Martin

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man of sin & son of perdition
« on: October 09, 2013, 02:37:39 PM »
Very little attention is given to this vital part of Scripture:

2Th 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Please allow me to give an explanation in some strict sense. I wrote the following over a period of time. The whole writing is aimed at my own heart and does not judge any other person than myself, so please read with an open mind.

I shriek at the sight of Christians declaring: “we, the Church must first be raptured out of the way then the Anti-Christ will be revealed, because it is us who holds him back”. Oh! How deceived!
For clarity: The ‘man of sin, the son of perdition is NOT the false prophet but is an anti-christ spirit, a counterfeit to the real Christ; an angel of light. (‘anti’ from the Greek means “in place of” AND “against”).
NOTE: the falling away (from THE faith) occurs simultaneously (and) when the man of sin is revealed. The revealing of this spirit is found in the same process as the falling away. It is thus a result of the falling away. Falling away from what? From 1. Grace and 2. The faith (not a faith).

Allow me to re-write this verse to make clear the fact that both are in the same process:
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and THEN SHALL that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Now look here:

2Th 2:8  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

o 4:5  Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

The ‘man of sin’ is a direct result of the ‘falling away’ and can be clearly observed by anyone who is not in this process of falling away. One who is in this process is blind and deaf but does not think so, but believe otherwise, and that is why the nakedness remains and the falling away going on even further and deeper. It’s a sad sight indeed, and there are many many many trapped in this process. Here is where it ends:
Amo_5:19  As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.
It’s one mean vicious circle with the most utmost of dire consequences. “Depart from Me, I know you not”
Dear saint of God: you cannot worship idols your whole life and expect God to just accept you in love. It does not work this way! Get away from your sports channels and soap operas! God’s son will not marry a harlot.
There are videos out there on the internet where the claim is made that only 1% of all Christians go to heaven. I watched it to see if it can perhaps be.
Here’s the link:  http://adf.ly/XFU8e
Decide for yourself.

Falling away: (referring to Christians only):
Meaning of ‘Falling away’:  not holding on to THE Christian faith, not believing THE truth of God [anymore]
Many think that this falling away consists of all religions being grafted into one by the Interfaith Movement. In part it is so because of the Ecumenical Movement that joins the Interfaith Movement as directed by the Papacy or Church of Rome right now.
This falling away refers strictly to:
1Ti_4:1  Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
It’s so easy to say that “oh, I don’t believe in the devil, I know the tricks of the devil…”
Believe me: if you do not LOVE THE TRUTH you will be deceived by the craftiness of the devil no matter how good or holy you perceive yourself or are perceived by others.
We think we’re good people and that is where we deceive ourselves; that is where deception starts. We think once saved, always saved, and we think we are the elect and cannot be deceived and we accept anything anyone teaches from the Bible as truth. Christianity is a PERSONAL relationship with Jesus Christ. He is your intercessor and teacher and master and high priest and king.  You cannot have a relationship with Him through someone else. It must be direct. No pastors in between, no Billy Graham’s, no Benny Hinn’s, no mother Theresa’s no Virgin Mary’s!

1Ti_2:5  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

We think only good people go to heaven. Well then according to God no one will qualify:
Psa 14:1  The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Isa_64:6  But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

What comes first? Doubt or deception? And which of the two is the more dangerous?
Mat 14:28  And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water.
Mat 14:29  And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus.
Mat 14:30  But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.
Mat 14:31  And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?

Could doubt be a questioning of faith? Does it originate in fear?
Could the state of being deceived be an acceptance of doubt?

Let’s find out:

Falling away:
is equal to disobedience
is equal to sin
is equal to iniquity
is equal to unrighteousness
is equal to not believing the truth
is equal to not having faith in Jesus Christ
is equal to having a form of godliness but having denied the power thereof
is equal to not denying self
is equal to denying Christ
…which results in the wicked one sitting inside YOU, enthroned in the temple of God, ruling you as a Christian.
…which results in being in a state of being wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked (while thinking you have it all, once saved, always saved)
and worse: resulting in given over to strong delusion (by God) if there is no repentance. Damnation (yes, this means going to where the son of perdition goes, the man of sin goes, to the lake of fire, to hell!)
Rev 3:17  Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

Mar_13:13  And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

If you do not love the truth you will have an automatic lean to having pleasure in unrighteousness (meaning not standing against the lie when it appears). If you do not have faith in THE TRUTH on an every day basis then you are not saved! (Not an opinion, but biblical fact! which will become clear, and proven, just read on)

Mat_22:14  For many are called, but few are chosen.

We think that because God called us we automatically qualify to go into the kingdom of God. But we forget this:
Luk_9:62  And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

Mat_7:14  Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Rev 17:14  These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

You are called to repentance by grace unto salvation, denying self to have the mind of Christ.  It is a process and you do not have it all instantly.
Power has been given to you to renew your thoughts, to have the ability to start thinking and acting like your Saviour, Christ Jesus.
You are chosen according to faithfulness in Jesus Christ; to let Him rule through you, not just believe he exists and making up your own ideas about Him.
You need to learn the words he wrote. He is the Word that became flesh. The Bible contains His mind; make it part of you.
This process can be reversed: no faith, no repentance, fall from grace, fall away from the faith, following the son of perdition, going to hell!

NOTE:
The Falling Away is PART of the Interfaith Movement. It is not solely the Interfaith Movement by itself…and is also not necessarily part of the Ecumenical Movement.
“Oh, but my church is not involved with that movement, I don’t even know what it is”!
The Falling Away is in its most deceptive form a personal falling away from the grace of God; falling away from the faith that was once delivered unto the saints. True born again Christians departing from the faith…and not even realizing it! Worshipping Lucifer while thinking they are worshipping Jesus! This is how Satan gets the whole world to worship him while we wait for the pre-tribulation rapture and the poor left behind people and the poor Jews in Israel to face the great tribulation. What a deception! All these false teachings are getting clearer by the day, just as this man of sin is being revealed.
A metaphor for sin in the Bible is ‘nakedness’ or being naked
Remember Adam and Eve?
Gen 3:10  And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

…that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear;
Rev 3:17  Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
You either see or you’re blind, you either see the nakedness or you don’t.
You either see the son of perdition revealed or you don’t.
If the light in you is darkness then you cannot see this man of sin because you are him! Light rejected is darkness accepted! This is serious!

You worship God by studying His Word! (“…and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.”)
By searching for His unfathomable riches and truths and relying solely on His Holy Spirit to reval to you the true meaning. This is a two way relationship!
By watching your behaviour and repenting daily before Him in prayer and supplication so as to grow in grace, so as to be able to eat meat and not crying as a baby when persecution comes! That’s Christianity in a nutshell. Seeking your Saviour every second of the day in your thinking and your doing! That’s how you serve the God of the Bible! That’s how you put Him first in anything you do. That’s how you show love to Him, your future Bridegroom with whom you’ll spend eternity with! Your church won’t save you, your pastor won’t save you, and the songs you sing won’t save you. Your external acts of circumcision and trying to keep Old Testament statutes (all 600+ of them) won’t save you. Your seeking the fulness of the Holy Spirit won’t save you. When you seek the Holy Spirit, you deny that He was given to you at conversion. Reading Benny Hinn, T.D. Jakes, Joyce Meyer, Joel Osteen, and a host of other false teachings will poison you! Then what will save? You won’t be able to see the falseness in these wicked teachers posing as an angel of light if the light in you is darkness!
Jud 1:10  But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
Jud 1:11  Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
Jud 1:12  These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
Jud 1:13  Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Mat_26:41  Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
Mar_13:33  Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

Watch TV, watch the news, and watch events in the Middle East, Israel, and America? No!
Watch your thoughts, watch your actions! (Mark on forehead; mark on right hand)
Watch:
•   that you do not sin wilfully
•   that you obey the Word
•   that you do not give heed to false doctrine
•   that no one deceives you
•   that you do not come into bondage
•   that you do not fall away
We don’t keep watch and this is how the enemy infiltrates and conquers.
Jas_1:22  But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
How can you pray effectively if you don’t watch, repent, and do? They go hand in hand.
Eph_6:18  Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Supplication = to ask of the Father things that only He can give you. He already knows what you need, he just want you to ask for it so that when you receive it from him you will appreciate it. Personally I ask the Lord for knowledge and wisdom; things that are worth more than gold or silver. Heavenly riches, not earthly here and now stuff. He provides you automatically with it. Here’s why:
Mat 6:32  (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
Mat 6:33  But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Mat 6:34  Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
These prayers are simple, child like prayers, not long elaborate fancy words, trying to impress the Jones’.
Praying in the Spirit means that when you are not able to speak up in prayer, God’s Holy Spirit does the praying for you without you bursting out in tears and tongues and rolling around uncontrollably. No: the God of the Bible is a God of order! Self-control is one of the fruits of the Spirit.

God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit has a perfect relationship.
As a reborned Christian you are welcome to enter into that perfect relationship where you start out as a baby, drinking milk and growing up until you can start eating meat…

Here is proof:

Mat_11:25  At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Who were these babes? They were reborned [Christians] disciples who heard Jesus speak and believed what He said was truth.
Was Judas Iscariot reborned? Yes, but he fell into temptation by thievery, and in this way opened himself up to satanic possession.

Joh_17:12  While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Mat_10:22  And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

But what do we do daily? We fuss and fight and seek pleasure and idolize ourselves and others…watch the latest entertainment on television and sports and hobbies and everything else we so love to do except worshipping Him that loved us so much He died for us! We put Him in a prison cell when we don’t love Him!
We say “oh, look at the Dalai Lama kissing the Pope” …”oh! Look at them…look at them…”…”oh no that doesn’t apply to me, that’s for the Jews”!
Have you ever questioned the teachings of Billy Graham? Well, he acted as a leader in this ecumenical movement. Do you know what it is? It means Protestants and Catholics together as one. One with what? One with all other belief systems; with all other false religions and philosophies so as to worship all one god, the god of this world, Satan.  Having problems believing this? Check out this link:
http://adf.ly/XFU8f

“Oh, but wait! I’m not a Satanist! I’m in the Full Gospel Church, I was born a New Apostolic, I’m in the Reformed Church…been a member for 45 years now! I’m a good Christian, I have a clean criminal record, and I’ve never harmed anyone”!
What do you do with your leisure time? Watch television or finding pleasure in reading God’s Word and immersing your mind into it? Meditating on it constantly above anything else you do, practicing praying and watching. Ask yourself: “is the love of God in me”? “Why do I only care about myself”?
Do you love anyone else more than you love Jesus?
Mat 10:37  He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:38  And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:39  He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

We brush aside the true meaning of “taking up the cross”. It is of vital importance! It is at the nucleus of the gospel. Without this element there is no gospel!
If you don’t understand what it means to take up your cross then you will fall away!

Have you lost your life for Jesus Christ or are you worshipping SELF? You cannot find your life in Christ if you have not lost it for Him!

Look at how important it is: It is mentioned 4 times!

Mat_16:25  For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
Mar_8:35  For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
Luk_9:24  For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.
Luk_17:33  Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

This is not saying the sinner’s prayer, it is the daily process following this act of humility. Lose your SELF!

Forgotten about this?

Deu_6:5  And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.


You are lost dear saint if you think once saved always saved! It’s not my opinion but the Bible proves it!
God called you, you listened to His voice and fell on your knees and said “Jesus come into my heart”. He did and then God gives you His Holy Spirit to guide you into ALL TRUTH. You receive THE faith of Jesus which is the only power to overcome sin, the power of love.

What have you done to His Spirit? Have you grieved him perhaps?
Have you opened your gift?
Rom_6:23  For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

If your own child do not listen to you, don’t you grieve and become upset? Well, the same here.
We disobey God and expect Him to give us His riches. It does not work like that!

Once in your heart, God will never forsake or leave you. But what do you do to Him? How do you treat Him in your body which is the temple of God? Does He call the shots or do you?

Reminder: “a fool says in his heart there is no God”. In other words: “no God, not your way, MY way! I’ll choose the truth, not you. I will not go through the effort to see if my pastor is preaching the truth or if that TV evangelist teaches error…I will not test the spirits to see if they are from you. Oh no, Oh no God, not your way, MY way”!
Such a faith CANNOT save! It’s from the soul; it’s outright rebellion!

Luk 18:8  I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

“Oh yeah! Look at that! Yeah, we will have been raptured long before that! That is for all these other people who never went to Church and all of them who were left behind!”

You want to grieve God’s Holy Spirit? Then go to church and sing a song to a tune like this: “Come Holy Spirit fall on me now I need Your anointing come in Your power I love You Holy ...”
Now what’s wrong with that?
Let me tell you what’s wrong with that:
When you sing that song you openly confess that you never received the Holy Spirit at conversion …when you were saved that very moment, (whenever it was) God gave you His Holy Spirit (this is what the Bible teaches). This is heresy in the church! This is SELF worship. If you do not repent of this action you lose your salvation on the spot! You have been deceived. How? Because if you love the truth you will not sing this song! You will know the truth, and the truth shall set you free, free to see the error. But we have been blinded but we think we see. We have accepted the lie and think it to be truth.

“Oh, but no one can take me out of His hand”! I agree 100%. But who can? Only you can!

We look for the enemy outside, but that’s not where he is. He is inside looking out. Make sure you have the mind of Christ when looking out, otherwise you won’t see the enemy. Here’s the proof:
Luk_11:34  The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.
These sayings of Christ are for believers, disciples, Christians, not just for the lost world out there.

Same as this:

Joh 9:39  And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
Joh 9:40  And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
Joh 9:41  Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

“Oh no that doesn’t apply to me, that’s for the Pharisees”:
Then look at this again:

Mat_6:23  But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
Luk_11:34  The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.
Luk_11:35  Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness.

Mat 24:4  And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

These verses were not written solely for the lost; for the world. No, they were written for disciples, reborned Christians, saints, brothers and sisters in Christ! Why does Jesus go through so much effort to warn us of these impending dangers? Because if you don’t take heed and take Him serious and take what He says here at face value, you will be deceived and the light in you can and will become darkness while you think in your vanity that it is of God but meantime the enemy has tricked you, the angel of light fooled you. This is serious! Your soul must be kept in subjection of your spirit which gets its nourishment from the Word and from the Spirit. In this way you worship God in spirit and in truth. Your soul stays in rebellion to God.

Gal_5:17  For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Joh_4:24  God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

This doesn’t mean walking with your hands in the air and worshipping, no: it means obeying the truth by doing it as lead by the Holy Spirit of God and not following your soulish ambitions.

1Jn_1:7  But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Do not ever, and I repeat, ever, blindly plead the blood of Jesus over your soul! There is a condition: you need to walk in the light. You need to walk on the narrow road, the WAY. You need to know the TRUTH to be able to see, guided by the LIGHT. If you do this then you are obedient to your Master, and you will be cleansed just by fellowshipping with Him. This takes humility; a subjection of the flesh to the spirit; and the spirit to the Holy Spirit.

Luk_9:23  And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
Luk_14:27  And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

Rom 8:18  For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
Remember the other side, the wicked side?

2Th 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


We break fellowship with Almighty God when we accept lies that come to us in the form of truth!

“Oh no, I have accepted Jesus as my saviour and the devil can’t touch me: the devil can’t touch my spirit”! Oh really? Examine yourself by asking God’s Holy Spirit to show you your sins. He will do that with pleasure! He will flood your brain with thoughts, things you have forgotton of by now! Then repent in sackcloth and ashes and cry out in shame that you disappointed Him. Guess what? He WILL forgive you! We serve a God of love and compassion who hates sin but loves the sinner! He so much wants you to grow the real YOU, the inner man, the spirit man, the part of you who was originally created in the image of God! This inner man wants meat to eat to be able to grow in stature. He needs water and clothes to wear. This process does not happen automatically! God does not form us into the image of His Son if we do not allow it! The choice is yours! The Holy Spirit imparts wisdom or teaches your spirit the knowledge of God. This wisdom cannot be obtained any other way. Your spirit must be part of this perfect relationship. Disobedience ruins this relationship. Few there are who find it and keep it by faith.
Mat 7:13  Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14  Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mat 7:15  Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16  Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17  Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18  A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19  Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20  Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21  Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.



PeteWaldo

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Re: man of sin & son of perdition
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2013, 03:22:55 PM »
Hi Martin, and welcome to the forum! :)

Very little attention is given to this vital part of Scripture:

Speaking for the folks in this forum, we have spent quite a bit of time on these subjects.

2Th 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, ..........

I, like you, see Satan's deception to have blinded the church both to "that man of sin" and that we would seem to be full blown into the prophesied apostasy, though I believe it was primarily blinded by unsound 19th-20th century eschatology, causing the futurist church to believe these elements are yet to come, while preterists suggest it was over and done with in the first century.
http://www.christianeschatology.com/falling_away_apostasy.htm

Perhaps just as was prophesied:

2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4  And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD: 12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find [it].

.......... and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

We also agree that pop-concepts like the "sinner's prayer" supplanted the preaching repentance, as you suggest, and that pop-eschatology also kept the "church" from recognizing that the place we should be on the lookout for "that man of sin", is exactly where scripture instructs we may find him seated, right there in the "temple of God".
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=552.0
and
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/man_of_sin.htm

2Thess 2 forum thread
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=415.0

falling away specifically
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3462.0

The forum search function works very well for locating subjects that may already have threads running on them.

Again, welcome to the forum, Martin!