Chat on Sin/Salvation split from The ONLY UNFORGIVABLE sin in Islam - "shirk"

[Mujaheed]

AND GOD CHOSE LETS SEE < PAUL (SAUL) WHO NEVER MET JESUS< WHO MURDERED OTHER CHRISTIANS, A LIGHT CAME TO HIM AND ITS REVELATION??

You regular hypocrite aren't you?  I indulged you because I thought you were a childish hypocrite, turns out you a special kind of hypocrite.

When Paul received the light, he stopped murdering. (gospel received)

When Muhammad received the 'light' he did the exact opposite... he justified his murders. (anti-gospel received)

Really, how insightful, and what happened to Paul when he did that? What did Paul base his action on? The fact that Christianity was not invented yet and it did not have an army? How long after Paul did the killing amongst christians start? You get my point of Hypocrisy, You reading snippets of Scripture in solution, you dividing Gospel into what you like and can use and deliberately ignoring the big picture. SO PAUL MURDERED PEOPLE? HE WILL ANSWER FOR THAT ON JUDGEMENT DAY, WE BELIEVE HE IS FORGIVEN BUT THERE IS A DAY OF RECKONING.

You an Ex Military person, have you adopted the religion and practices of Buddha or Ghandi, (non violent passive resistance?) both has proven that it will ultimately lead to huge human suffering in both cases at the hand of KAAFIR, disbelievers (people who don't believe in GOD)

Tell me: Did DAVID SLAY Goliath? Did samson kill 1000 men? Are their Armies of God?

Did Prophet Muhammad preach for 10 years in Makkah under very harsh conditions before going to Madina, was war declared on the Prophet day one of the Revelation? Did the Kuffaar of Makkah come to Madina or were they attacked in Makkah by the Prophet Muhammad? If you don't know the Answers then your Question is out of ignorance!!!!!

I don't know who is indoctrinating you but they are idiots, as big as MR Ellis Skollfield, The same arguments (unfounded baseless and absurd arguments) are put forth every time. Most Muslims shrug it off to Kufr (disbelief out of choice). I however choose to educate you.

The Prophet Muhammad did not murder anyone before or after his receiving revelation. Self Defense is not murder, basic human right to defend yourself against an enemy for the sake of God. It is Biblical, scriptural and divine decree given to all the prophets of the Past including Jesus.

[Mujaheed]

WAS PAUL A PROPHET OF GOD?

WAS JOHN of PATMOS A PROPHET OF GOD? HE WROTE REVELATIONS/ APOCALYPSE (assumed Title)

WHAT IS YOUR DEFINITION OF A PROPHET? WHAT IS A MESSENGER AND WHAT IS YOUR DEFINITION OF A MESSENGER?

[ExMilitary]

Really, how insightful, and what happened to Paul when he did that? What did Paul base his action on? The fact that Christianity was not invented yet and it did not have an army? How long after Paul did the killing amongst christians start?

If you think I'm going to claim the actions of the Roman Catholic church as my own, you are sadly mistaken.  Roman Catholicism is full of idolatry, sexual deviancy, murder, and witch craft... and Jesus condemned the religion in the book of Revelation.  Paul NEVER taught to kill after receiving light.  Jesus taught that HIS kingdom was not of this world.  He never intended us to take it with the sword.

And my being ExMilitary has given me the ability to see that patriotism is a religion.  I pledge my allegiance to God, not a flag or a country.  I will do my best to prosper my neighbors (as Israel was commanded to do in Babylon), but I am very sad that my country has murdered thousands of people all over the planet.

Stick to scripture.  Murder is the antithesis of the gospel.

Fact of the matter is that the Quran (Muhammad's rule book) clearly instructs the killing of Jews, apostates, and unbelievers that will not submit to jizya.

The difference is that the GOSPEL IS LIFE.  People are commanded to repent from murders, idolatry, strife, envy, etc.

The Quran is death... People are commanded to make rules to justify their fleshly desires (temporary marriages, killing of Jews, taking of lands, etc).  It reminds me of the Pharisees who made up rules to get around "Honor your father and mother" because they wanted to be greedy and keep their own money.

Look, I've been in Saudi Arabia during Ramadan.  I've never seen a more hypocritical "fasting" in my life.  Fasting during the day, but gorging yourselves at night?  It is amazing, they can't even keep the shops closed throughout the night.  The fasting comes during the day, but the people are inwardly groaning, "When will this honoring of Allah end so that we may open our shops and resume business as usual?"

Tell me: Did DAVID SLAY Goliath? Did samson kill 1000 men? Are their Armies of God?

Muj, these were FORESHADOWING  what would be true after Jesus was revealed.  These things are happening today, spiritually.  They will happen, both spiritually and physically, one final time in the future.  Israel was a preview, if you will, a historical guidebook that foreshadows the spiritual truths of the Kingdom of God.  One of these spiritual truths is, if you do not believe God as he has been revealed in the nation of Israel, then you have no part in the Kingdom.

There is a reason, Muj, that Jesus commanded Joshua to use trumpets to bring down Jericho... he showed John what that reason was on the isle of Patmos.

Jesus said that his kingdom is not of this world.  His kingdom is the heavenly kingdom... over which HE is king.  "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places".  One of these high places, Muj, is in your heart and mind.

The Prophet Muhammad did not murder anyone before or after his receiving revelation. Self Defense is not murder, basic human right to defend yourself against an enemy for the sake of God. It is Biblical, scriptural and divine decree given to all the prophets of the Past including Jesus.

Again, you can not deny that the Quran teaches killing those that will not submit to Islam (in some way, shape, or form).  Many Muslims say that the passages are only referring to specific battles, or a very finite group of people at a specific time in history.  But that is a load of crud, and you know it.  The Quran clearly teaches murder is okay against those that won't submit to Islam because they were going to be killed anyway.  Be they Jews, apostates, unbelievers that will not submit to jizya...  Even the women of Islam are not safe.  I've got a book, right here in my hands.  It contains first-hand stories of people that have escaped Islam... true converts that found out what Islam was really all about.

Bottom line, the true gospel results in repentance and a new life... Islam results in justification of the same old deeds.

[PeteWaldo]

You will be responsible for answering to each of the points that are presented in this post, Muj.

AND GOD CHOSE LETS SEE < PAUL (SAUL) WHO NEVER MET JESUS< WHO MURDERED OTHER CHRISTIANS, A LIGHT CAME TO HIM AND ITS REVELATION??

You regular hypocrite aren't you?  I indulged you because I thought you were a childish hypocrite, turns out you a special kind of hypocrite.

When Paul received the light, he stopped murdering. (gospel received)

When Muhammad received the 'light' he did the exact opposite... he justified his murders. (anti-gospel received)

For obvious reasons:

2Cr 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3909.0

Really, how insightful, and what happened to Paul when he did that? What did Paul base his action on? The fact that Christianity was not invented yet.........

Followers of the Messiah - the Christ (THE anointed one) - have been around, ever since the Messiah that we follow was made manifest to the world. The term "CHRISTian" was coined at Antioch (derogatory term for those that believed that Jesus is the Christ).

Act 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

So it is only expected that you, an antichrist, would seek to denigrate us, just as the Godless did back then. Would seek to persecute us for our faith, just as the Godless have for nearly 2,000 years, and all around the world today:
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/muslim_persecution_of_christians.htm

2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will  live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

........ and it did not have an army?

We have been a standing army ever since Jesus  Christ was made manifest to the world. In websites and this forum we continue to slice and dice the false prophet Muhammad and his anti-religion, with the armor and weapons that God gave us.

Eph 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; 15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

How long after Paul did the killing amongst christians start? You get my point of Hypocrisy, .........

Not at all. Paul was lost, just like you. Then he was saved and filled with the Spirit of our great God.

........ You reading snippets of Scripture ........

Says the guy that ignores the hundreds of verses in scripture that describe the Father and His Son.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/god_the_father.htm
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/jesus_the_son_of_god.htm

......in solution, you dividing Gospel into what you like and can use and deliberately ignoring the big picture.

You again described yourself my friend. Who has all power over heaven and earth?

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Who is the alpha and omega?

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

SO PAUL MURDERED PEOPLE?

He did indeed, before he was saved and born again and filled with the Spirit of God.

HE WILL ANSWER FOR THAT ON JUDGEMENT DAY, ...........

No, because His sins were washed away, because they were atoned for on the cross by the precious blood  of the sacrifice of the Lamb of God.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/the_lamb_slain.htm

You are choosing to stand before the very Son of God that you reject in judgment, while wearing a lifetime of accumulated sin for a wardrobe, actually believing that is your pass into paradise.

.......... WE BELIEVE HE IS FORGIVEN BUT THERE IS A DAY OF RECKONING.

There perhaps will be for antichrists, that reject the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel, and deny and blaspheme the Son of God.

You an Ex Military person, have you adopted the religion and practices of Buddha or Ghandi, (non violent passive resistance?) both has proven that it will ultimately lead to huge human suffering in both cases at the hand of KAAFIR, disbelievers (people who don't believe in GOD)

Sure Muj. Peace and love have always lead to war.

John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

That must be absolutely horrifying to a Muhammadan!

Tell me: Did DAVID SLAY Goliath? Did samson kill 1000 men? Are their Armies of God?

Indeed they were. But the scriptures didn't end with the historical record of David and Samson. Please address that on the other thread on which you raised the subject:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4019.msg16227#msg16227

Did Prophet Muhammad ............

First of all, Muhamamd was a conspicuously false prophet, with only false prophecy to his credit.

........... preach for 10 years in Makkah under very harsh conditions ............

What should he have expected but to be laughed out of town after telling his preposterous tale about riding around on an entirely unwitnessed flying donkey-mule?

........ before going to Madina, .....

Where the Muhammadans mass murdered the Jews, raped their little girls and wives, and stole the fruit of the labor of generations.

...... was war declared on the Prophet ......

No it was Muhammad that was the imperialistic conquerer, just like other reprobates before him like Genghis khan, and those after him, that emulated him, like Adolph Hitler.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/islam_and_jews.htm

....... day one of the Revelation? Did the Kuffaar of Makkah come to Madina or were they attacked in Makkah by the Prophet Muhammad?

They were attacked in Mecca just like peaceful peoples were throughout the Arabian peninsula during Muhammad's lifetime, and as perpetrated by the reprobates that followed Muhammad all the way up into France and Austria after Muhammad's lifetime.

If you don't know the Answers then your Question is out of ignorance!!!!!

The answers are to be found throughout this forum.

I don't know who is indoctrinating you but they are idiots, as big as MR Ellis Skollfield, ........

Many hundreds of years ago those great men of God of the Reformation recognized the evil of Islam in Bible prophecy.
http://www.christianeschatology.com/historicism.htm#reformers_on_islam

Of Revelation chapter 9:  John Foxe who authored Foxe’s Book of Martyrs wrote that it is “clearer than light itself” as being a prophecy of the Muslim conquests.

Albert Barnes: “With surprising unanimity, commentators have agreed in regarding this to the empire of the Saracens (Muslims), or to the rise and the progress of the religion and the empire set up by Muhammed.”

W.B. Godbey: “This chapter is a thrilling description of the rise and progress of the Mohammedan wars.”

Of the locusts of Revelation 9:  Adam Clarke: “certainly agrees better with the Saracens than with any other people or nation” and “agrees very well with the troops of Mohammed.”

Matthew Henry: “the armies of the Mohamedan empire.”

John Wesley: “All this agrees with the slaughter which the Saracens made for a long time after Mahomet’s death.”

........ The same arguments (unfounded baseless and absurd arguments) are put forth every time.

The arguments are hermeneutically sound.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/the_beast.htm

Most Muslims shrug it off to Kufr (disbelief out of choice).

That's right, because ALL MUSLIMS are ANTICHRIST.

I however choose to educate you.

No, you choose to blaspheme the very Son of God that you will stand before in judgment:

Jhn 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

The Prophet Muhammad did not murder anyone before or after his receiving revelation.

That is a filthy lie. He started out by having poets that pointed out his nonsense murdered, and wound murdering innocent folks throughout the Arabian peninsula. Like the literate, peaceful, faithful, productive Jewish tribes of Medina, who were everything that Muhammad was not.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/jesus_or_muhammad.htm

Self Defense is not murder, basic human right to defend yourself against an enemy for the sake of God.

Only a foolish liar could characterize Islamic imperialistic aggression all the way up to Tours France and Vienna Austria as "self defense".

It is Biblical, scriptural and divine decree given to all the prophets of the Past including Jesus.

7th century Muhammadan imperialistic murder - just like today - is a morally reprobate activity of Muhammadanism alone. At least you finally admit that you approve of Muhammadan murder of innocents, in your failed attempt to justify it through the scriptures.

http://petewaldo.com/old_testament_violence.htm
"By Muhammad's day, 1,500 years had passed since any Hebrew prophet was described in the Old Testament as using a sword in the service of God. Neither Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Micah, Amos, Malachi nor any other later Hebrew prophet is described as using the sword or prescribing its use."

[PeteWaldo]

So let's start with your attempt to parrot the Muhammadan BIG LIE regarding Islam's so-called "defensive" imperialistic conquest and subjugation of all of the peaceful people in their path. Almost the entire Arabian peninsula was conquered during Muhammad's lifetime, with his followers in his model of slicing and dicing their way all the way up to Tours France and Vienna Austria, through the power of the sword.
As prophesied:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1Nhx-bf44Q

And Fulfilled:
".... according to one unidentified Arab, 'That army went through all places like a desolating storm.' sacking and capturing the city of Bordeaux, and then defeating the army of Duke Odo of Aquitaine at the Battle of the River Garonne — where the western chroniclers state, 'God alone knows the number of the slain'—[3] and Odo fled to Charles Martel, seeking help." 
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/mathematical_precision_of_prophecy.htm#battle_of_tours

Is there some part of Islam's imperialism you are unable to understand Muj?

The Prophet Muhammad did not murder anyone before or after his receiving revelation.

That is a ridiculous lie. He started out by having poets that pointed out his nonsense murdered, and wound up murdering folks throughout the Arabian peninsula.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/jesus_or_muhammad.htm

Self Defense is not murder, basic human right to defend yourself against an enemy for the sake of God.

Only a foolish liar could characterize Islamic imperialistic aggression all the way up to Tours France and Vienna Austria as "self defense". That makes you a filthy liar for Satan.

http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/jihad_islamic_terrorism.htm#islamic_first_jihad

From Islam's most highly regarded Hadith: Bukhari V4 B52 #73: Narrated 'Abdullah bin Abi Aufa: Allah's Apostle said, "Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords." (also #210 & #266)

Sahih Muslim B 20 #4681 The tradition has been narrated on the authority of 'Abdullah b. Qais. He heard it from his father who, while facing the enemy, reported that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Surely, the gates of paradise are under the shadows of the swords. A man in a shabby condition got up and said; Abu Musa, did you hear the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say this? He said: Yes. (The narrator said): He returned to his friends and said: I greet you (a farewell greeting). Then he broke the sheath of his sword, threw it away, advanced with his (naked) sword towards the enemy and fought (them) with it until he was slain. (also B 19 #4314)

No surprise then that young Muslim men travel to engage in foreign wars, and are so willing to blow themselves up in Islamic suicide bombings for the same reason suggested by the surviving Boston Marathon bomber, who actually believes his murderous brother is a "martyr" in "paradise". Lavished in Muhammad's promise of multiple virgins to defile, in the carnal chicken and wine serving bordello of Muhammad's overactive imagination, that he called paradise.

From several sources: "The Sword is the key of heaven and hell; a drop of blood shed in the cause of Allah, a night spent in arms, is of more avail than two months of fasting and prayer; whoever falls in battle, his sins are forgiven, and at the day of judgment his limbs shall be supplied by the wings of angels and cherubim."

The Power of the Sword:

623 - Battle of Waddan
623 - Battle of Safwan
623 - Battle of Dul-Ashir
624 - Muhammad and converts begin raids on caravans to fund the movement.
624 - Zakat becomes mandatory
624 - Battle of Badr
624 - Battle of Bani Salim
624 - Battle of Eid-ul-Fitr and Zakat-ul-Fitr
624 - Battle of Bani Qainuqa
624 - Battle of Sawiq
624 - Battle of Ghatfan
624 - Battle of Bahran
625 - Battle of Uhud. 70 Muslims are killed.
625 - Battle of Humra-ul-Asad
625 - Battle of Banu Nudair
625 - Battle of Dhatur-Riqa
626 - Battle of Badru-Ukhra
626 - Battle of Dumatul-Jandal
626 - Battle of Banu Mustalaq Nikah
627 - Battle of the Trench
627 - Battle of Ahzab
627 - Battle of Bani Quraiza
627 - Battle of Bani Lahyan
627 - Battle of Ghaiba
627 - Battle of Khaibar
628 - Muhammad signs treaty with Quraish.
630 - Muhammad conquers Mecca.
630 - Battle of Hunsin.
630 - Battle of Tabuk
632 - Muhammad dies.
632 - Abu-Bakr, Muhammads father-in-law, along with Umar, begin a military move to enforce Islam in Arabia.
633 - Battle at Oman
633 - Battle at Hadramaut.
633 - Battle of Kazima
633 - Battle of Walaja
633 - Battle of Ulleis
633 - Battle of Anbar
634 - Battle of Basra,
634 - Battle of Damascus
634 - Battle of Ajnadin.
634 - Death of Hadrat Abu Bakr. Hadrat Umar Farooq becomes the Caliph.
634 - Battle of Namaraq
634 - Battle of Saqatia.
635 - Battle of Bridge.
635 - Battle of Buwaib.
635 - Conquest of Damascus.
635 - Battle of Fahl.
636 - Battle of Yermuk.
636 - Battle of Qadsiyia.
636 - Conquest of Madain.
637 - Battle of Jalula.
638 - Battle of Yarmouk.
638 - The Muslims defeat the Romans and enter Jerusalem.
638 - Conquest of Jazirah.
639 - Conquest of Khuizistan and movement into Egypt.
641 - Battle of Nihawand
642 - Battle of Ray in Persia
643 - Conquest of Azarbaijan
644 - Conquest of Fars
644 - Conquest of Kharan.
644 - Umar is murdered. Othman becomes the Caliph.
647 - Conquest of the island of Cypress
644 - Uman dies and is succeeded by Caliph Uthman.
648 - Campaign against the Byzantines.
651 - Naval battle against the Byzantines.
654 - Islam spreads into North Africa
656 - Uthman is murdered. Ali become Caliph.
658 - Battle of Nahrawan.
659 - Conquest of Egypt
661 - Ali is murdered.
662 - Egypt falls to Islam rule.
666 - Sicily is attacked by Muslims
677 - Siege of Constantinople
687 - Battle of Kufa
691 - Battle of Deir ul Jaliq
700 - Sufism takes root as a sect of Islam
700 - Military campaigns in North Africa
702 - Battle of Deir ul Jamira
711 - Muslims invade Gibraltar
711 - Conquest of Spain
713 - Conquest of Multan
716 - Invasion of Constantinople
732 - Battle of Tours in France.
740 - Battle of the Nobles.
741 - Battle of Bagdoura in North Africa
744 - Battle of Ain al Jurr.
746 - Battle of Rupar Thutha
748 - Battle of Rayy.
749 - Battle of lsfahan
749 - Battle of Nihawand
750 - Battle of Zab
772 - Battle of Janbi in North Africa
777 - Battle of Saragossa in Spain

The anti-religion of Islam has not changed over 1400 years, because the Quran cannot be changed. The world war of today is the same, Dar Al-Salaam or "house of peace" VS the Dar Al-Harb or "house of war", as it has been throughout Islamic history. If you are a Muslim you are in the house of peace, but if you are a non-Muslim you are in the house of war, and while you may not be at war against Islam, Islam has been at war against you for 1400 years.

[PeteWaldo]

After we exhaust the previous subject we will work on the following, in light of your earlier false proclamation that Islam's battles were defensive, when in fact they were imperialistic aggression:

It is Biblical, scriptural and divine decree given to all the prophets of the Past........

Historical record of individual incidents do not constitute ordinances. Nor was any open license ever granted to God's people to go out conquer and subjugate others to themselves. There were only specific instances of specific events.

Let alone that the 7th century AD Muhammadan murder through imperialistic conquest, and subjugation of others - just like today - is a morally bankrupt reprobate activity, of Muhammadanism alone. At least you finally admit that you approve of Muhammadan murder of innocents.

http://petewaldo.com/old_testament_violence.htm
"By Muhammad's day, 1,500 years had passed since any Hebrew prophet was described in the Old Testament as using a sword in the service of God. Neither Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Micah, Amos, Malachi nor any other later Hebrew prophet is described as using the sword or prescribing its use."

......... including Jesus.

Please explain.