Where is the "temple of God"?

[Peter]

This is perhaps the next most poignant question to ask a futurist (after "who is the false prophet").
Where is the "temple of God"?

[Peter]

Following several day conversation copy and pasted on 3-11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUPrVCBGO40  
If going to video best to start with the last page of comments and work forward.

Shalom to people who creating this video THANKS AND GOD BLESS praise HOLY ETERNAL GOD FATHER SON HOLY SPIRIT!
ergotrof 6 days ago
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Even with 1.5 billion antichrists in Islam alone still stuck in Darby's 19th century eschatology.

lion = babylon

bear = medo-persia

leopard = greece

Those seats occupied today by: Iraq, Iran, Syria/Lebanon.

Revelation 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a LEOPARD, and his feet were as [the feet] of a BEAR, and his mouth as the mouth of a LION: and the dragon gave him his power, and his SEAT, and great authority.

THE False prophet Muhammad's Islamic empire's seat.

watch?v=dJODE7Q2KcM
PeteWaldo 6 days ago
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@PeteWaldo when the rapture happens will you be ready? Don't say it not gonna happen BECAUSE it IS biblically true to those that believe.
MinWilliamJosephWWM 5 days ago
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@MinWilliamJosephWWM Enemy put John Nelson Darby's doctrine in the 20th century church, to blind it to 1.5 billion antichrists in the world today, in Islam alone.

watch?v=grPwQ2obbFA

So busy imaging the future, rendered blind to what is going on all around us, and the commission we have been given.

2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

I'll be humbly honored to remain my brother John's fellow companion in THE tribulation.

watch?v=_KtSpB4Id8I
PeteWaldo 5 days ago
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The rapture is biblical.stop saying is not,because you will  be surprised,get ready it can happen anytime!
yahking07 5 days ago
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_______________________


@PeteWaldo Your opinion about Darby is bias because you deny the pre-trib truth.

Persecution is not necessary martyrdom. We all undergo persecution everyday we stand for Christ. But nowhere in scripture did Christ demand us to suffer martyrdom. Matter of fact He encourage us to pray so we do not have to endure the temptation of life or death for Christ. This temptation or hour of Testing is the Mark of the Beast.

Study

Luke 21:36

Mark 14:38

Matthew 6:13

1 Cor 10:13

Rev 3:10
MinWilliamJosephWWM 4 days ago


@prophecytoday hi I'm a longtime fan Dr. Deyoung however Daniel 7's 4 beasts are 4 stages in the life of the USA. 1st 13colonies 2nd Louisiana purchase 3ribs Ohio, Mississippi, missouri rivers. Arise eat flesh is participate in ww2. 3rd beastly form post ww2 military empire to the four wings/winds of earth 4th beast form 10 FEMA regions consistent with war/disaster of final 7years.
4282011RaptureRepent 4 days ago
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Furthormore, Daniel 8 clearly speaks of the USA. Greek Luke buildings in Capitol flying around the world without touching the ground to strike furiously saddam/Iraq 2003. Physically trampled on saddam as he lay hidden in spider pit found hiding in operation red dawn.
4282011RaptureRepent 4 days ago
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USA is also mentioned in Daniel 11 the Persians Iranians will stir up everyone against us likely leading to Ezekiel 38's war
4282011RaptureRepent 4 days ago
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@MinWilliamJosephWWM Many Christians buy Darby's pop-19th century doctrine (7-year tribulation, rebuilt temple, etc.) without also buying into his pre-trib rapture.

One problem is his doctrine wasn't to be found in the church prior to his pen.

2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
PeteWaldo 4 days ago
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@PeteWaldo OK, what about Ephraim the Syrian? I hear he discussed the rapture way before Darby.

2 Tim 4:3-4 does not refute the pre-trib rapture
MinWilliamJosephWWM 4 days ago
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@MinWilliamJosephWWM From a cushy lazy-boy chair in the U.S. it's hard to see the sufferings of our brothers and sisters around the world. Jesus didn't prescribe Islam's exactly backwards concept of martyrdom, however Christians from the first century, and every day today, suffer torture and death, when it is demanded that they deny Christ, but they refuse to do so.

Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

watch?v=d4rtYAO3UxA
PeteWaldo 4 days ago
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PSEUDO-Ephriam put his pen to paper in the 8th century but the argument that even his paper is post-trib, is stronger than the argument that it is pre-trib.

brotherpete. com/index. php?topic=7.0

Though I don't believe there is is to be a "7 year trib" for it to be "pre".

Where is the "temple of God" brother?

watch?v=_KtSpB4Id8I
PeteWaldo 4 days ago
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______________________


@PeteWaldo So 1st Tim backs up your belief that we are supposed to be martyred? How?

I have heard Ephraim the Syrian quote and it sounds pretty much like a Pre-trib belief to me but even that would not be enough proof to make me believe it. I simply see it in scripture.

I will check the link you gave. In return, visit my channel and view some of the Rapture videos I have done.

Thank you.
MinWilliamJosephWWM 4 days ago


@MinWilliamJosephWWM I removed that comment, because I had confused the two verses that I cited. What you have heard is proof-texted snippets from Pseudo Ephraim in efforts to advance Darby's doctrine.

I indoctrinated myself into Darby's doctrine for perhaps a decade through Jack Van Impe, before I attended a Calvary Chapel for another few years, doing the same. I'm not unfamiliar with it. It was when I began writing about it that my questions arose. Like....
PeteWaldo 4 days ago
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@PeteWaldo .... If all the Christians on earth disappeared and planes fell from the sky and cars crashed into bridge abutments as the silver screen of this fable portrays, then how wouldn't the rest of the world know that they had exactly 7 years to repent and be saved?

Only way we will have a constructive discussion about this is if you log into the forum to defend Darby's doctrine. We can quote each other, post live links, etc. Please come join us.

brotherpete. com/index. php?board=2.0
PeteWaldo 4 days ago
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@MinWilliamJoseph Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation...

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days ...

Matthew 24:30 they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet [a great trumpet, NASB], and they shall gather together his elect...

(1) Great tribulation.

(2) After the tribulation.

(3) Son of man coming

(3) Great trumpet

(5) Gather together elect

brotherpete. com/index. php?topic=8.0
PeteWaldo 4 days ago
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@PeteWaldo Are you familiar with the origins, and original purpose, that the Jesuits created you doctrine for?

brotherpete. com/index. php?topic=499.0
PeteWaldo 4 days ago
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@PeteWaldo OK now prove the "Gather together of the elect" is the rapture (Catching away) of the living gentile christians Here R some rapture verses since you believe Ephraim is fake. The “Rapture” John 14:1-3 1st Cor 15:1-53 1st Thess 4:13-18 Rom 8:19 1 Cor 1:7-8 1 Cor 16:22 Phil 3:20-21 Col 3:4 1st Thess 1:10 1st Thess 2:19 1st Thess 5:9 1st Thess 5:23 2nd Thess 2:1, 3 1st Tim 6:14 2nd Tim 4:1 Titus 2:13 Heb 9:28 James 5:7-9 1st Peter 1:7, 13 1st John 2:28, 3:2 Jude 1:21 Rev 2:25 Rev 3:10
MinWilliamJosephWWM 4 days ago
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@MinWilliamJosephWWM PSEUDO Ephriam is PSEUDO Ephriam. The links that I have already provided have addressed all of the verses you cite. And, for example, I previously asked you where the "temple of God" is, specifically to address Thess, but you failed to answer the question.

Where is the "temple of God"?

watch?v=nMXGmHiNUyU

beholdthebeast. com/great_tribulation. htm

beholdthebeast. com/temple_of_god. htm
PeteWaldo 4 days ago
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The Rapture is Soooon.
rayrod114 3 days ago
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@PeteWaldo the lord does not swell in temples made by man's hands . Our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit. God is Spirit and we must worship him in spirit and inTruth
RONIDC1979 2 days ago
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@RONIDC1979 Hey Jerome, the Lord doesn't Dwell in them either! :-)

I asked the question of our brother MinWill because the next obvious question is "Where then, should we be expecting to find 'that man of sin' to be seated?"

watch?v=nMXGmHiNUyU
PeteWaldo 2 days ago
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____________________


@PeteWaldo In the third Jewish temple, in which is currently about to be built right now. We will be raptured before their is any temple.
rayrod114 2 days ago


@rayrod114 So then we aren't "the temple of God" after all?

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Or are we are THE OTHER "temple of God"?

Jesus failed to rebuild the temple in 3 days, and His work on the cross was incomplete and unfinished?

Since God doesn't dwell in temples, any temple built in the Christian era would obviously be desolate before the first stone was laid. So how could it be desolated?

watch?v=N39msxDcJiE
PeteWaldo 2 days ago
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@PeteWaldo By this same person check his videos and look for location of the jewish temple. Jesus was talking about the Holy Spirit dwelling in the saved in Christ. - We are a temple of God sir. But their will be a third Jewish Temple. - Jesus finished his work on the Cross.
rayrod114 2 days ago
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@rayrod114 You didn't answer the question. How could an already-desolate temple be desolated?

If Jesus sacrifice on the cross is a completed work...

Hbr 8:13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; TO THE JEW FIRST, and also to the Greek.

WHAT IS GOD'S PURPOSE FOR A 3RD TEMPLE?
PeteWaldo 2 days ago
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@PeteWaldo I told you, it's a physcial temple, not a spiritual temple. Jesus sacrifcie on the cross is completed. Jesus died for all people. The AntiChrist will dwell in the new jewis temple for a short time.
rayrod114 2 days ago
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@rayrod114 So then the only purpose of the rebuilt temple is so that "The" "Antichrist" can dwell there?

watch?v=w71CtxLdjio

PeteWaldo 2 days ago
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@PeteWaldo Prophecy must be fullfilled. He will be there for a short time.
rayrod114 1 day ago
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@PeteWaldo it's a trick question :)
MinWilliamJosephWWM 1 day ago
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@rayrod114 So the temple is built for "The" "Antichrist". The reason your view likely doesn't make sense even to you, is because it is a false eschatology penned by a guy named John Nelson Darby in the 19th century. He reworked a doctrine of a guy named Edward Irving, originally penned by a 15th century Roman Catholic Jesuit named Alberto Ribera. He was consigned to invent the eschatology to fool the reformers. It's why you can't even see Muhammad is THE false prophet.

watch?v=grPwQ2obbFA
PeteWaldo 1 day ago
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@MinWilliamJosephWWM You may think that's funny but teachers are going to be judged more critically - particularly those that don't do everything in their power to seek out truth. I believe the enemy put this doctrine in the church not only to blind it to Muhammad being THE false prophet, but to offer the allure of judgment deferred. How many kids put off repenting, figuring that when Christians all disappear, then they will have 7 years to repent? I thought that at 40.

watch?v=nMXGmHiNUyU
PeteWaldo 1 day ago
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____________________________

@MinWilliamJosephWWM The tragedy is that for all those that delayed repentance, betting on a second chance during John Darby's "7 year tribulation", the train will leave the station without them.

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible...

You asked about being "ready" for the "rapture", which demonstrates how you have been distracted, since each one of us could die in the next moment.
PeteWaldo 1 day ago

@PeteWaldo Your faith is in your intellectual finite knoledge an Satan drags you on a leash, you have no freedom. You camn twist scripture all you want heretically but TRUTH is truth. Repent!
rayrod114 1 day ago
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@rayrod114 You were the one left flat-footed and unable to defend John Nelson Darby's 19th century eschatology, then you go on to accuse that somehow I'm the one that twisted the scripture.

Please visit the following web page (copy and paste into the URL window then remove the spaces from after the dots), or click the link to the forum on the video link, and support your accusation that I'm the one that twisted scripture.

beholdthebeast. com/temple_of_god. htm

watch?v=nMXGmHiNUyU
PeteWaldo 1 day ago
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@PeteWaldo My Faith is in Jesus, not human knoledge. After all all knoledge coems from God anyway. I'd rather here the word of God than a false teacher voicing his opinion. I don't folow Religion, I follow Jesus. Is your bible your God? Sometimes it isn't us that owns Doctrine, but our doctrine can own us. We all will answer to God. Repent!
rayrod114 17 hours ago
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@rayrod114 Yet even as you continue to accuse, you're the one owned by John Darby's doctrine, causing you to discount the temple of God that Jesus rebuilt almost 2,000 years ago.

WHERE IN YOUR BIBLE does it tell you that it is in God's plan to rebuild the temple in Jerusalem?

What would be God's purpose for such a temple, since salvation through Jesus Christ is extended to the Jew first, and the old covenant "decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away" 1900+ years ago?

watch?v=nMXGmHiNUyU
PeteWaldo 16 hours ago
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@PeteWaldo

Zechariah 6:12-14 12And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD: 13Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
MinWilliamJosephWWM 15 hours ago
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@rayrod114 Ray the bible is God's words. It is your Sword and you must use it. We all have doctrines but only one of the doctrines is sound. Pre-trib is sound doctrine.

PS: Don't let John William influence you negatively about the bible.

2 Timothy 3:16 (King James Version)

16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
MinWilliamJosephWWM 15 hours ago
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@PeteWaldo

1 Corinthians 1:22

For the Jews require a sign,

My point. God will perform signs to allow people a chance to repent. Your theology of a God that doesn't give second, third, forth, chances is flawed.

If God was so unmerciful and unforgiving as you imply then we would not had a second chance by his sacrifice over 2000 years ago.

If you are not rapture ready then when the rapture happens you will not go in it. Be ye ready always for you know not when the Master of the House cometh
MinWilliamJosephWWM 15 hours ago
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@MinWilliamJosephWWM We likely agree that reference to the "branch" is to the Messiah that was to come in the line of David. So did the Messiah build His temple, just as prophesied in Zechariah, and just as Jesus Himself prophesied He would?

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them...
PeteWaldo 15 hours ago
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@PeteWaldo ....and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

Ephesians 2:19 ...ye are no more strangers ... but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
PeteWaldo 15 hours ago
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______________________

@MinWilliamJosephWWM We've all already been given the sign my friend.

Mat 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and THERE SHALL NO SIGN BE GIVEN TO IT, BUT the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

The rebuilding of the temple that you increasingly seem to want to deny.

watch?v=nMXGmHiNUyU
PeteWaldo 14 hours ago

@PeteWaldo It is apparent that we r simply not going to agree about the Temple. I have sent u an email. Do you deny there was once a Literal Temple?

Zech implies strictly that he will "Sit & rule upon his throne" I must take the plain sense & not seek after any other sense here. The throne is literal so therefore the temple is literal too. Check Daniel 7:9-22 Ancient of Days

Considering the signs. U must remember Matt 24:3, the Apostles ask what will be the sign. Therefore more signs r coming

MinWilliamJosephWWM 14 hours ago
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@MinWilliamJosephWWM You not only missed, but misrepresented my view entirely. You even went on to demonstrate how your doctrine has blinded you from the truth just as I suggested. You actually seem to be promoting a doctrine where folks should bet they can repent at some point in the future.

HOW MANY CHANCES TO REPENT DO WE GET AFTER WE ARE DEAD?

So it should be obvious to EVERY Christian that each of us should live our lives as if we are going to die - and be judged - in the very next moment.
PeteWaldo 14 hours ago
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@PeteWaldo I don't disagree that there is a spiritual temple of believers. That is biblically true. But to say there is no Physical Temple is another story. John describes New Jerusalem is this not a literal structure? Yet it's also called the bride & Lambs wife.

All this is telling us that we r the true building blocks. Just like our flesh is not the true us but the spirit that dwells within us. The temple is the same. Yet there is still an outer literal presence & John describes it's beauty.
MinWilliamJosephWWM 14 hours ago
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@PeteWaldo No chance to repent after we are dead.

I didn't mean to misrepresent you but it seems to me you don't believe in a God of Second chances. But God is merciful and forgiven and not willing any to perish so why not demonstrate a miracle (rapture) as a sign for those that will be left behind.

In reality it's not a sign but a miracle based on our faith. We believe it and God will act on our faith. He can come back any moment. Do you agree?

I believe your doctrine is what's blinding
MinWilliamJosephWWM 14 hours ago
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@MinWilliamJosephWWM You're using your interpretation of figurative language of a prophetic vision, to nullify literal New Testament scriptures that are not open to interpretation.

Even in John's vision re new Jerusalem

Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.

"the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man."
PeteWaldo 14 hours ago
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As I said early in our chat "Only way we will have a constructive discussion about this is if you log into the forum to defend Darby's doctrine. We can quote each other, post live links, etc. Please come join us."

Why not join me in that venue where we can have a truly constructive chat, not limited to this 500 character limitation, or the confusion and limitations of personal messaging. The forum is great and the search function is superb for finding things.

brotherpete. com/index. php
PeteWaldo 14 hours ago
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@PeteWaldo Whatever happens happens. I'm going to continue to serve Jesus my friend...
rayrod114 13 hours ago
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@MinWilliamJosephWWM He never negatively influences me... His doctrine is sound. He is pre trib. Do you even watch his videos bro? He is on the same page as you and me.
rayrod114 12 hours ago
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@rayrod114 I guess im a bit sore about his comment about not trusting the bible. & how so many seem to quickly agree with that. He can't back up his doctrine biblically because the scripture tells us to

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15

But if u r told don't trust what you study then where does that leave you...

Send me a video he's made using scripture to back up the rapture & I'll view it.
MinWilliamJosephWWM 12 hours ago
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______________________


@PeteWaldo My interpretations? I've only showed that scripture can have dual meanings.

Is the New Jerusalem a real Literal City?

Was there a Literal Temple of God?

Is there a literal throne and will the Messiah actually sit on it?

Where will the Abomination STAND? In the Holy Place.

Where is the Holy PLACE?

honestly I can not spiritualize all this as JUST referring to my body being the Temple of God. Yes im a futurist.
MinWilliamJosephWWM 12 hours ago
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@MinWilliamJosephWWM Well, He Meant... Bible knoledge can't save you. - Nothing can save us but Jesus Christ. - He made a video called... - Is King James Your God? He told us to pray before responding, because it is a Holy Spirit driven statement, that we all must think before we say we "know"
rayrod114 11 hours ago
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@rayrod114 What he might've meant is different for what he said. His statement might've done more harm then good. I hear Atheist saying they don't trust the bible. If it's Holy Spirit then John needs to back up his statements with bible scriptures. Right now I have more respect for PeteWaldo a Post Tribber because he is using bible knowledge to defend his case yet he is not entirely accurate. But I'll let it go since you are defending John, if he has a video with scripture & rapture send it.
MinWilliamJosephWWM 8 hours ago
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@MinWilliamJosephWWM I should have said John Darby's interpretations. New Jerusalem is not a literal city any more than the 7 headed 10 horned scarlet beast is a literal animal.

Of course there WAS a literal temple. Jesus replaced the old covenant - the physical temple removed. ONE WAY. His people ARE the temple of God is why the literal temple was removed. Jesus is seated on His throne.

The abomination of desolation stands

beholdthebeast. com/abomination_of_desolation. htm

watch?v=N39msxDcJiE
PeteWaldo 1 hour ago
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@MinWilliamJosephWWM "honestly I can not spiritualize all this as JUST referring to my body being the Temple of God."

That is a stunning self-indictment.

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

But hey, why let scripture get in the way of Darby's 19th century doctrine? Do you really believe that the mid 1800s were in the "time of the end"?

Daniel 12:9 words [are] closed up and sealed till the time of the end

watch?v=ManZPZeROdc
PeteWaldo 1 hour ago
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@rayrod114 Indeed Bible knowledge can't save anyone.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

However Jesus IS TRUTH, so the way to serve Him is by seeking out and following the truth. When someone discounts the importance of scripture it generally indicates they follow a tradition they cannot defend. Does it matter?

1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

watch?v=_KtSpB4Id8I
PeteWaldo 57 minutes ago
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@rayrod114 "He told us to pray before responding, because it is a Holy Spirit driven statement...". Another ploy typical of those who cannot defend their tradition in light of scripture. The most common tool used by heretics in Christian forums. Obviously what he is saying by extension is "if you disagree with me then you must not be led by the Holy Spirit". It's not only UNChristian but he's last person to listen to because he is trying to preempt constructive dialogue.

watch?v=_KtSpB4Id8I
PeteWaldo 47 minutes ago
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@rayrod114 Men are indoctrinated into false doctrine and then indoctrinate others into it. They wind up so invested in doctrine they are the last people that can afford to consider another view. But the truth sets us free. Many such put their effort into "proving" their doctrine through the evening news because they cannot support it through scripture.

An excellent book on what happened to the "church" is "Pagan Christianity" by Frank Viola. Another...

beholdthebeast. com/the_false_prophet. htm
PeteWaldo 22 minutes ago
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Through all that indoctrination late in the life of the church, two eschatologies became popular in the 20th century - partial-preterism and futurism. Each must believe the other to be virtually 100% in error regarding their understanding of the book of Revelation after chapter 3, because a 1900 year gulf divides the two views. Amazingly both doctrines NECESSARILY PRECLUDE even considering that Muhammad could be THE false prophet of that book. And what's wrong with that...

watch?v=_KtSpB4Id8I
PeteWaldo 8 minutes ago
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Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious HAS BEGOTTEN A SON!" 89 INDEED YE HAVE PUT FORTH A THING MOST MONSTROUS!

Surah 4:157 That THEY SAID ... "WE KILLED CHRIST JESUS ... BUT THEY KILLED HIM NOT, NOR CRUCIFIED HIM ... FOR OF A SURETY THEY KILLED HIM NOT

1John 2:22...HE IS ANTICHRIST, THAT DENIETH the Father and THE SON. 23 WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE FATHER:

1.5 billion antichrists - 1/4 of mankind - in Islam alone

2 million killed in the Sudan

watch?v=V9FYYo5EINU
PeteWaldo 3 minutes ago
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Following several day conversation copy and pasted on 3-11

[Peter]

3-11

Toward the end of the chat above I PMd the following

Dear Pastor Joseph,

I would appreciate it if you would take a critical view of the web page at the following link or video, regarding the "temple of God", and share with me what you believe is incorrect about it - through scripture.

http://www.beholdthebeast.com/temple_of_god.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMXGmHiNUyU

[Peter]

3-10

Hello brother Pete.

I have just viewed your video. Very well done. I understood where you were coming from at the beginning. Yes we agree that the Temple of God is not necessary a literal physical building or structure but we ourselves are the Temple of God.

But I in all honestly I can not deny that there will be a literal one in the future as there was one in the past. Even Jesus himself acknowledge the Temple of God as His Father's House.

Now unbelieving Jews will and are in the works or rebuilding the Temple and as you know we believe this is what must be done. How do you explain the abomination that makes the Temple Desolate? Daniel said when you see the abomination standing in the Holy Place.

We must honestly agree that there will be a literal place. The literal Temple is simply a physical structure for his Spiritual Temples to gather.

But the true Temple of God are believers in Christ and a temple is nothing without it's believers and the New Jerusalem that comes down out of Heaven is synonymous to Believers as well.

The way I think about it is that a nation or state is characterized by it's residents. The Residents make up the state and the state is nothing without it's inhabitants. Example the spirit of America lives inside Americans yet there is a physical land we call America

We surely just have different opinion here. You rather spiritualize the temple in Thessalonians based on other scriptures and we rather take it literally based on scriptures that there was one in the past.

I since you sincerity and I urge you to investigate and continue to seek for biblical truths of a pre-trib rapture. I believe it and many more not because we want to but because the scripture forces us too. I will unleash a new batch of videos in the near future about it so stay tuned and you are welcome to comment and even disagree with them.

[Peter]

3-10

Please may I beg you to copy and paste your PM into the forum where we can both do it justice?
A link to the forum is provided on all of my videos. You can use any username you like, so you don't have to compromise your YouTube identity, if that is a concern to you.

Jesus is THE truth, so I believe you would agree that the only way we can serve Him is by seeking out and following the truth - wherever it leads us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KtSpB4Id8I
________________

PS If you like I can keep the chat to between just the 2 of us, though there is likely only one or two brothers that would be inclined to join in.

[Peter]

3-11

One group says the Pope is the Anti-Christ, another says Muhammed's Islam is.

Do you believe the mark of the beast will be forced on muslims, hindus, buddhist as well as christians?

Do you think the muslims will accept the mark willfully?

I guess I should have asked you first do you believe the mark is a literal mark in the right hand or forehead or is it a spiritual thing.

I have thought about all these things before and I actually like the video sent. I will likely share it with some muslims I encounter on my "online journeys" You should allow for comments on the video

As for commenting on a private forum. You can copy and paste what I sent to you via email to your forum. I will not have time to log in and take part in a debate at this time. Perhaps in the future. I have other social networks I have to tend too and they usually consume my time online so I have to delegate a moment for each of them.

I don't mean any disrespect in any of my comments to you. Yes Amen Jesus Yeshua is the Truth and I pray that we all be lead to the absolute truth of His words as time permits.

[Peter]

3-11

[[[[One group says the Pope is the Anti-Christ, .......]]]

SDA, formerly Millerites, is one group that holds this belief. Their false doctrine is easily exposed through the only 4 verses that contain the term "antichrist".

Their's isn't the only cult the 19th century brought us.

The 19th century brought us

Mary Baker Eddy - Christian Science
Joseph Smith - LDS Mormon
Charles Taze Russell - Jehovah's Witness
William Miller - The Millerites
Ellen White - SDA Seventh Day Adventists
Edward Irving - Irvingites
John Nelson Darby - dispensationalism futurism Borrowed from Irving and bequeathed to C.I. Scofield of the Scofield annotated Bible. (Dr. Harry Ironside on futurism)
Westcott and Hort - wrote corrupt 19th century minority Greek text that is the basis of the majority of modern bible versions.
Charles Parham United Oneness Pentecostal Church - a few individuals 19th and 20th century
Pope Pius IX - 1854 dogma of the "immaculate conception"
The 19th century also brought us:
Madame Blavatsky - Theosophical Society - satanist acquaintence of Westcott and Hort

Not restricted to the 19th century the ecclesia also suffered:
Constantine - Roman Catholicism - 3rd-4th century, 13th century dogma of auricular confession, 1950 dogma of the "assumption of Mary", RCC style doctrine of apostolic succession, transubstantiation, infallibility of papal decree, and on and on.

Ribera - futurist doctrine creator and seed for Darby's doctrine 16th century
Alcazar - preterist doctrine 17th century
Jean de Labadie - millennial reign 17th century
Manuel de Lacunza - middle man between Ribera and Darby 18th century

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

http://www.beholdthebeast.com/traditional_framework.htm#cults

[Peter]

3-11

[[[[One group says the Pope is the Anti-Christ, another says Muhammed's Islam is.]]]]

Who could ever imagine that Muhammadan Islam is antichrist? Isn't that silly?

Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 INDEED YE HAVE PUT FORTH A THING MOST MONSTROUS!

1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? HE IS ANTICHRIST, THAT DENIETH the Father and THE SON. 23 WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE FATHER:

1.5 billion antichrists in Islam alone. 1/4 of mankind and growing.

Here's a one minute complete course on Islam for those that have been stumbling around blind in false eschatology and exegeting scripture through the evening news.
http://www.petewaldo.com/

Indeed in the traditional continuous-historic context through which all Jews and Christians under stand Old Testament prophecy, and the reformers applied to New Testament prophecy and the book of Revelation, Muhammad comes sharply into focus as THE false prophet of the book of Revelation.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/traditional_framework.htm

[[[[Do you believe the mark of the beast will be forced on muslims, hindus, buddhist as well as christians?]]]]

The natural result of following a 19th century fable rather than rightly dividing the word using sound principles of hermeneutics.
Islam IS THE BEAST.
John's "whole world" already has the mark.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/islam__quran_and_666.htm#the_trragedy

sent with this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJODE7Q2KcM

[Peter]

3-11

What would you do if you came to an understanding today, that everything you had been teaching about the book of Revelation all these years, has been in error?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N39msxDcJiE

[Peter]

3-11 his reply

This will help you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnMMWWjfRgo
_________________

Followed by
________________

and what group do you fall into?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiV3IK-ly5M

[Peter]

3-12

I asked

"What would you do if you came to an understanding today, that everything you had been teaching about the book of Revelation all these years, has been in error?"

To which you replied with

[[[[This will help you.]]]]

and

[[[and what group do you fall into?]]]]

and included videos that did not answer my question either. This is exactly the kind of response that Muslims reply with when a question is asked of them.

We don't have to wonder why you fear the organization of the forum where we can have a thoughtful conversation over time, coming and going as our time allows, but instead prefer the dark alley of personal messaging, and rapidly disappearing 500 character bits and pieces on YouTube videos. It isn't about a "debate" as you suggested, but about brethren rightly dividing the Word together, in a venue where we can quote each other, post live links etc. and actually accomplish something. I understand that nothing terrifies a futurist more than removing confusion.

I haven't wasted time trying to bring the truth to your eschatologically comatose institutional western "church" for a couple of years, as I have been called to bring the Gospel to 1.5 billion souls deceived by THE false prophet Muhammad, that false 20th century eschatology, has resulted in the "church" being blinded to their responsibility toward. My three channels provide lots of material to help get the Christian community get up to speed by condensing and prioritizing the fruit of 4 years of study and conversation.

Two of my websites distill Islam into a venue palitable for every Christian holding most any church doctrine. The most important understanding in which is the FACT, that Mecca did not exist before the 4th century AD, when pagan immigrants from Yemen settled the area, and built their kaaba in the early 5th century for moon, sun, star and jinn-demon worship

http://www.historyofmecca.com/
http://www.petewaldo.com/

In the years since I uploaded the Islam-Christian Forum not a single person has logged in to defend John Nelson Darby's heresy. The reason is that it cannot be supported in the light of scripture or church history.

Job 8:8  For enquire, I pray thee, of the former age, and prepare thyself to the search of their fathers:  9  (For we [are but of] yesterday, and know nothing, because our days upon earth [are] a shadow:)

Does that suggest following a 19th century doctrine penned by A SINGLE guy named John Darby? By saying you don't have time for the forum, what you are really saying is that you don't have time for truth, and anything that differs from your continuing self-indoctrination. I recommend you revisit the term nicolaitan, as well as scripture indicating that as a teacher you will be judged to a higher standard.

I was in your shoes. I indoctrinated myself into John Darby's doctrine for a decade or so with Jack Van Impe. At the time I didn't even know that any other view existed. Then I started sharing my doctrine by publishing a website, and the more I wrote, the more questions it raised. It was only after this that I opened my eyes, and the Lord helped me overcome Darby's 19th century heresy.

Darby's wasn't the only heresy the 19th century brought us as I wrote in an earlier PM. Yet even as you would point your finger at the cults that emerged from other 19th century false teachers, you can't for a moment imagine that you could be a victim just as those others so sorely deceived, even though your doctrine fails in the light of scripture and history just as theirs does.

You sit back in your soft leather chair believing that somehow you are above the 2,000 year legacy of Christians that have been maimed and killed for standing up for our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, who's deaths, as well as scripture, confirm that Christians ARE ANYTHING but exempt from tribulation. This while even this very day our brothers and sisters in Africa and elsewhere are told that if they don't deny that Jesus Christ is the Son of God they will be killed. 500 fellow saints killed every day of the week. It would help you a lot to take a vacation to the Sudan and count how many Christians you find that are expecting to be "raptured" before John Nelson Darby's FUTURE tribulation.

Christians being maimed and killed ever since Stephen was stoned and you actually believe that somehow you are suffering persecution. What, did someone call you a name? Maybe hurt your feelings?

Bible prophecy is ethnographic. John was to write about what HE saw and was seeing. Look up what is meant by "whole world" in Strong's Definitions and you will find that, with the exception of Israel and small percentages of persecuted Christians in a few other area countries, virtually everyone in John's "whole world" already has the mark of the "beast".
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/the_beast.htm#lbl_map

80% of Egyptians are against the Camp David Accords and recognition of Israel's statehood. The rest of the countries protesting would be much higher percentages. Yet even as the Islamic "beast" is about to shut down the world, you are waiting for some "revived Roman Empire" to make the scene and some FUTURE false prophet. Doesn't that give you even a little pause to wonder?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fbXvq_ZIbw

[Peter]

You see, my friend, I have you at a disadvantage. I pounded your doctrine into myself for a decade. You don't have to try to explain it to me.
Whereas you - A TEACHER - have never even bothered to look at Revelation through an entirely different context - the TRADITIONAL CONTEXT - but instead march blithely on your way adding lace to Darby's heresy while paying short shrift to the fundamentals.

If you are a teacher isn't it your responsibility to continue to learn, rather than simply continuing to indoctrinate yourself? If you don't want to risk being judged as a nicolaitan - which God Himself expresses a personal hatred of - then it is your DUTY to explore other ENTIRE CONTEXTS.

Maybe you've already studies the heresy of preterism and partial-preterism (preterism lite!). If that's the case then there is only one context left for you to explore. The TRADITIONAL continuous historic context that was held by the Reformers and much of the church up until the 20th century.

For a fun free introduction to this context through which ALL Jews and Christians understand Old Testament prophecy was fulfilled it won't take you but a little free time to read "The False Prophet" by Ellis Skolfield. For over 30 years he has written about Islam in prophecy through this traditional context.

It is a brick-by-brick empirical argument so you need to begin at the beginning. You will not get anywhere if you begin by trying to wring it through the filter of your cherished doctrine, because it is an entirely different context that must be considered on it's own merit completely before comparing it with Darby's doctrine.

It's FREE and fun to read.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/the_great_detective.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FXw0qrrsJ0

[Peter]

This certainly wound up being worth the effort. He replied

3-12

The question you should ask is what if YOUR wrong about the rapture.

If you doubt you will be left behind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hUhY5eSSuI
_________________________

And
_______________

actually I have looked at the Post doctrine for years. I've been studying bible prophecy for about 15 years and a Post Trib doctrine leaves too many unanswered questions. See Video

The Pre Trib offers the believer an escape.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHTojvpva6g

[Peter]

I replied on the video on the first link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hUhY5eSSuI

Exalting yourself above the Word & standing as God in judgment - an excellent example.
2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
To my brethren, please note that the corporate body of Christ is the "temple of God" in the Christian era.
watch?v=nMXGmHiNUyU
The futurist "church" is looking in the wrong place for "that man of sin"
watch?v=QR0d1B4FYiM
___________________________

However the comment is "pending approval". This is the first of his videos that I have run into that is pending approval. Unless he has changed them all to that because of serious questions to his doctrine, it is likely because of the shock folks express after seeing the video.
Let's see if he censors my comment and adds nicolaitanism as well!
_______________________

To test the "pending approval" I commented on the other (millennial reign) video he sent which is also "pending approval". I didn't want to waste time in composing a post that would be censored so I only responded with links.
________________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHTojvpva6g

brotherpete. com/index. php?topic=347.0
brotherpete. com/index. php?topic=1591. msg10042#msg10042

[Peter]

To our Christian brethren less familiar with this subject, after watching the subject video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hUhY5eSSuI

Using the false presumption that forms the basis of his shrill proclamations, all a person needs is faith in the tooth fairy, and she will magically come true. Is that basis consistent with what scripture suggests?

1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Consider

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first,....

We don't have to wonder about apostasy in the church with doctrines like "Chrislam", and the ecumenical movement.

2:4 ....and that man of sin[/url] be revealed, the son of perdition...

http://www.beholdthebeast.com/man_of_sin.htm

Who opposeth .....

Consider the proclamations in the video in the light of this verse...
Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable [are] his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

... and exalteth himself above all that is called God,...

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

...or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God,...

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/temple_of_god.htm

....shewing himself that he is God.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/man_of_sin.htm#shewing

[Peter]

I just went to the website link on his YouTube channel. I didn't know that MinJoseph was a self-proclaimed prophet too! Even dressing up his image like an a Greek Orthodox icon of a saint. Based on his "oracles" sets one to pondering the presence of unclean spirits. I wonder if he was raised in a Pentecostal Church.
"The age of Jetson and flying cars is hastily approaching us. LOOK UP, I see it in a dream."



http://www.wiawo.com/WIAWO/Oracles.html

I didn't post this to make fun of him, but to let folks further understand how desperately he misunderstands authority, and further highlight the subject of where "that man of sin" sitteth. It isn't like we weren't warned.

Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

[Mike S]

I watched this video:
Who will be left behind?



and responded with these comments:

Jesus himself said that his followers would suffer persecution. Many would see death because of their faith. How dare you say those who are being martyred in Darfur, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Nigeria, etc, AT THIS MOMENT don't have enough faith? What's coming is not a pretrib rapture, but persecution.

i Cr 15:52: "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed" (KJV)

He replied with this:

@AKDad They would suffer persecution BUT they ARE NOT REQUIRED to be put to death.
Because people don't study the bible they die. Jesus told them to defend themselves. Also see video about LAST TRUMP

Study Luke 22:35-38
Jesus told the apostles that as long as he was with them they didn't need anything but now that he is going away he advised them to take money and buy a sword so that they can defend themselves.

See you do not know the scriptures so you will perish.
You can reply back by visiting the comments page.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hUhY5eSSuI

He missed the reason why Jesus told them to buy a sword, which was in verse 37.  It was so that the Scripture be fulfilled in him: "and he was numbered with the transgressors", and NOT to defend themselves.

[Peter]

I also replied with a second post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hUhY5eSSuI
____________________

2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will  live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
So I guess the Apostles just weren't "worthy to escape" persecution, stoning, beheading and being dragged through the streets, or the entire towns of Christians slaughtered by the Roman Church, or the two million killed by Islam in the Sudan alone - so far.
watch?v=d4rtYAO3UxA
beholdthebeast. com/great_tribulation. htm
_____________________

But I won't waste any more of my time as he likely won't post the posts anyway. Particularly won't after visiting his web page. I picked a few folks who commented on his videos at random and warned them.
Interestingly, searching the KJV I am hard pressed to find a reference to "The age of Jetson".

Titus 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; 11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

You post-tribbers better watch out! "Millions of Dead Fish Die!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfStoavcJgc

[hppav]

Reminds me of William Tapley "Third Eagle of the Apocalypse" and "co-prophet of the End Times."

http://www.youtube.com/user/thirdeaglebooks

The guy has a creepiness about him that makes me think he's more than just a mere false prophet, but something akin to a puppet, something gives him his thoughts.  With the rise of the internet, more and more false prophets have emerged.  It seems every commenter on YouTube is preaching that the Anti-Christ is the Pope and the Roman Catholic Church.  Luckily that's still a fringe group as most people don't comment on YouTube videos due to all the racist comments and fighting that goes on there.

The internet, in my opinion, is probably the most dangerous place to be in the modern world.

[Peter]

Luckily that's still a fringe group ...

Two groups. SDA and Historicist. Also common during the reformation and years when the Roman church was out murdering millions.

That's why it drives me a little nuts when folks label the continuous-historic view Historicist, which as far as I can tell is more like a denomination, or at least school of thought, that agrees generally in regard to Revelation, like futurists would with fellow futurists and preterists with fellow preterists.