Re: Split and retitled: Islam on Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael

[Al-Fatihah]

So this game is about to be over right now.

You just said I m ignoring the context in verse 33:1, which implies that there is a statement in verse 33:1 that says:

"NO ONE came from Mount Paran"

That's because, as the verse states, some of the tribes of Israel being discussed came from Paran. I showed you the presumed 2 possible locations on the map. Neither location is within a thousand kilometers of where Mecca was eventually established, and the event predates Muhammadans by thousands of years. All of those locations are up by THE Holy Land of the prophets and patriarchs, and not one of them is within a thousand kilometers of where Mecca was eventually established in the 4th century AD. It's a shame they didn't teach you any geography when they taught you grammar.

Again:



Mt. Paran is located in today's Jordan.

Challenge. Quote these word, or anything synonymous to it from verse 33:1, if you are truthful.

Google the location of Mt. Paran.

Response: This is too funny. You just showed a map and said Mt. Paran is in Jordan. Yet there are THREE Mt. Parans in the world. So your lying, deceitful ways will not work.

Then you continue to claim that the Tribes of Israel being discussed came from Mt. Paran, and show a map of what people call Paran TODAY. What kind of foolishness is that! What is called Paran today has nothing to do with the fact that YOUR OWN BIBLE refers to Paran in Arabia.

Just as pictured in the map labeled as the "alternate location", which discussion is contained in another thread in this forum, or simply web search the location of the wilderness of Paran.

Not the Paran you refer to because Isaiah 21:13-16 says a Calamity will fall on ARABIA .....

So we can assume that you lack the capacity to look and and understand a map. Too bad they didn't teach you how to map read in grammar school either.

..... and the glory of Kedar will fall. In Genesis 25:13 Kedar is mentioned as the Son of Ishmael. In Genesis 21:21 Ishmael is living in the wilderness of Paran.

So to recap. Since Kedar is in Arabia, and Kedar is the son of Ishmael, and Ishmael lives in the wilderness of Paran, then Paran and the descendants of Ishmael were also  in Arabia.

Just as my other map detailed.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4724.msg18134#msg18134
Your cognitive function has gone into outright failure.



Again, the Ishmaelites ranged across the whole region indicated by the bowed line.



What a laughably preposterous conclusion, but no surprise coming from you at this point.
Look at the map again. Neither Ishmael nor any of his sons ranged within 1,000 kilometers of where Mecca was eventually settled in the 4th century AD.



I've done all I can do. Your responses indicate you lack the capacity to to even read a map, let alone scripture.

Response: Again, your redundant use of a Map indicates an impotent approach to logic, thus refuting nothing as usual.

No it is your incapacity to look at the map and understand that is compromised. Perhaps you didn't realize that the modern boundaries of the countries shown on that map, are not the same as the boundaries of Ishmael's day.

Maybe this will help. The Ishmaelites were known for their flocks, which would require pastures, like those that existed in what's known as the "fertile crescent":



South of that crescent is what today we call the Syrian Desert, which was and remains, uninhabitable. That's why the line, representing the range of the Ishmaelites on the graphic map, is bowed.
Here's a picture of the Syrian Desert:

As your Map is not supported by any historical records, .........

The fact of the matter is that it is absolutely supported by the historical record. Didn't you read the verses that are on the map? Perhaps if I make them bigger:

Gen 25:17 And these are the years of the life of Ishmael, an hundred and thirty and seven years: and he gave up the ghost and died; and was gathered unto his people. 18 And they dwelt from Havilah unto Shur, that is before Egypt, as thou goest toward Assyria: and he died in the presence of all his brethren.

Now because of your repeated inability to look at and comprehend the map, you have charged yourself with the responsibility of finding a map with the locations detailed in that verse detailed on them. Here's a map that pins Kedar, Arabia:

http://bibleatlas.org/full/kedar.htm

Unfortunately you can't simply wish that a geographical location could be transported 1200 kilometers south to the area where Mecca was eventually established 2,000 years later in the 4th century AD.

....... and your own Bible refutes you since it clearly states Kedar lived in Arabia (Isaiah 21:13-26), ......

With which I repeatedly agreed and as the maps show, in Arabia, yet still around 1,200 kilometers away from the area in which Mecca was eventually established, over 2,000 years later.

....... who is the son of Ishmael (Gen. 25:13), and Ishmael lived in the Wilderness of Paran (Gen. 21:21).

Yes, exactly. As shown in the location you will find on any map on the internet except for one comically ridiculous Muhammadan map that has no historical or scriptural basis whatsoever, as evidenced by the actual location of the Ishmaelites as described in the scriptures I have posted here.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=wilderness%20of%20paran&FORM=BILH1

This is your own Bible saying this.

Yes, and I gave you the descriptions, and maps, so you have charged yourself with presenting maps that describe a different location if you believe the maps presented here are incorrect.

So you continue to refute yourself as well as expose your Bible.

No I continue to confirm that fact that neither Abraham, Hagar nor Ishmael were ever within 1,000 kilometers of where Mecca was built over 2,000 years later.

Response: And your redundant post of a map only highlights the severe absurdity in your logic, as your map is not supported by any historical documents and your own Bible refutes you, since it clearly states that Mt. Paran is in Arabia, since Kedar lived in Arabia (Isaiah 21:13-16), who is the son of Ishmael (Genesis 25:13), and Ishmael lived in the wilderness of Paran (Genesis 21:21).

[PeteWaldo]

And for those followers of Muhammad that arrive in the future seeking the truth, and review what he quoted and then read his reply, it shouldn't be difficult to see what Muhammadanism and the spirit of antichrist does to a mind that might have otherwise possessed normal cognitive function.
And I'd like to express my appreciation for your help in this, Al-Fatihah.

Few posters have illustrated more than you have, why we finally had to institute forum rules that require members to engage in an exchange. But was answering yes or no to the last question even too embarrassing for you? Perhaps you didn't notice it, so let's try it again:

Here's an account from an Islamic website:
http://www.thekeytoislam.com/en/what-do-you-know-about-zamzam-well.aspx

"Abraham took Hagar and her son, Ishmael to a place near the Kabah; he left them under a tree at the site of Zamzam. No one lived in Makkah back then, yet Abraham made them sit there, leaving them with some dates, and a small water-skin. Thereafter he set out towards home."

Is that what you believe?

[Al-Fatihah]

And for those followers of Muhammad that arrive in the future seeking the truth, and review what he quoted and then read his reply, it shouldn't be difficult to see what Muhammadanism and the spirit of antichrist does to a mind that might have otherwise possessed normal cognitive function.
And I'd like to express my appreciation for your help in this, Al-Fatihah.

Few posters have illustrated more than you have, why we finally had to institute forum rules that require members to engage in an exchange. But was answering yes or no to the last question even too embarrassing for you? Perhaps you didn't notice it, so let's try it again:

Here's an account from an Islamic website:
http://www.thekeytoislam.com/en/what-do-you-know-about-zamzam-well.aspx

"Abraham took Hagar and her son, Ishmael to a place near the Kabah; he left them under a tree at the site of Zamzam. No one lived in Makkah back then, yet Abraham made them sit there, leaving them with some dates, and a small water-skin. Thereafter he set out towards home."

Is that what you believe?

Response: In other words, your arguments were utterly flawed and exposed, as we see from your own Bible that Muhammad (saw) is a Prophet. YOUR Bible says Kedar is in Arabia (Isaiah 21:13-16). YOUR Bible says he is the son of Ishmael (Genesis 25:13) and YOUR Bible says Ishmael lived in the Wilderness of Paran (Genesis 21:21).

So if Kedar is in Arabia and he is the son of Ishmael then Ishmael is ALSO in Arabia. And if Ishmael lived in Paran then Paran is ALSO IN ARABIA.

THIS IS YOUR OWN BIBLE SAYING THIS,

So you continue to expose yourself and sound foolish. Stop embarrassing yourself and quit while you are behind.

[PeteWaldo]

And for those followers of Muhammad that arrive in the future seeking the truth, and review what he quoted and then read his reply, it shouldn't be difficult to see what Muhammadanism and the spirit of antichrist does to a mind that might have otherwise possessed normal cognitive function.
And I'd like to express my appreciation for your help in this, Al-Fatihah.

Few posters have illustrated more than you have, why we finally had to institute forum rules that require members to engage in an exchange. But was answering yes or no to the last question even too embarrassing for you? Perhaps you didn't notice it, so let's try it again:

Here's an account from an Islamic website:
http://www.thekeytoislam.com/en/what-do-you-know-about-zamzam-well.aspx

"Abraham took Hagar and her son, Ishmael to a place near the Kabah; he left them under a tree at the site of Zamzam. No one lived in Makkah back then, yet Abraham made them sit there, leaving them with some dates, and a small water-skin. Thereafter he set out towards home."

Is that what you believe?

Response: In other words, your arguments were utterly flawed and exposed, as we see from your own Bible that Muhammad (saw) is a Prophet. YOUR Bible says Kedar is in Arabia (Isaiah 21:13-16). YOUR Bible says he is the son of Ishmael (Genesis 25:13) and YOUR Bible says Ishmael lived in the Wilderness of Paran (Genesis 21:21).

So if Kedar is in Arabia and he is the son of Ishmael then Ishmael is ALSO in Arabia. And if Ishmael lived in Paran then Paran is ALSO IN ARABIA.

THIS IS YOUR OWN BIBLE SAYING THIS,

So you continue to expose yourself and sound foolish. Stop embarrassing yourself and quit while you are behind.

That wasn't a "Response" at all. All you did was confirm my assertion as to how Muhammadanism has broken your mind, by avoiding the content of what you yourself quoted. Why couldn't you simply anwer the question? Are you really that embarrassed to be a follower of Muhammad? Why not try a yes or no answer?

Again, from an Islamic website:
http://www.thekeytoislam.com/en/what-do-you-know-about-zamzam-well.aspx

"Abraham took Hagar and her son, Ishmael to a place near the Kabah; he left them under a tree at the site of Zamzam. No one lived in Makkah back then, yet Abraham made them sit there, leaving them with some dates, and a small water-skin. Thereafter he set out towards home."

Is that what you believe? A yes or no answer will do fine.

[Al-Fatihah]

That wasn't a "Response" at all. All you did was confirm my assertion as to how Muhammadanism has broken your mind, by avoiding the content of what you quoted. Why couldn't you simply anwer the question? Are you really that embarrassed to be a follower of Muhammad? Why not try a yes or no answer?

Again, from an Islamic website:
http://www.thekeytoislam.com/en/what-do-you-know-about-zamzam-well.aspx

"Abraham took Hagar and her son, Ishmael to a place near the Kabah; he left them under a tree at the site of Zamzam. No one lived in Makkah back then, yet Abraham made them sit there, leaving them with some dates, and a small water-skin. Thereafter he set out towards home."

Is that what you believe? A yes or no answer will do fine.

Response; In other words, you want me to answer your strawman It doesn't work that way. My claim was made on three different verses. So you need to address those verses since it is my claim. Not your pathetic strawman of asking questions on what was never stated. So your weak strawman will continue to be ignored. As stated,
YOUR Bible says Kedar is in Arabia (Isaiah 21:13-16). YOUR Bible says he is the son of Ishmael (Genesis 25:13) and YOUR Bible says Ishmael lived in the Wilderness of Paran (Genesis 21:21).

So if Kedar is in Arabia and he is the son of Ishmael then Ishmael is ALSO in Arabia. And if Ishmael lived in Paran then Paran is ALSO IN ARABIA.

THIS IS YOUR BIBLE.

The fact that everyone is watching you run from this is amusing.

[PeteWaldo]

That wasn't a "Response" at all. All you did was confirm my assertion as to how Muhammadanism has broken your mind, by avoiding the content of what you quoted. Why couldn't you simply anwer the question? Are you really that embarrassed to be a follower of Muhammad? Why not try a yes or no answer?

Again, from an Islamic website:
http://www.thekeytoislam.com/en/what-do-you-know-about-zamzam-well.aspx

"Abraham took Hagar and her son, Ishmael to a place near the Kabah; he left them under a tree at the site of Zamzam. No one lived in Makkah back then, yet Abraham made them sit there, leaving them with some dates, and a small water-skin. Thereafter he set out towards home."

Is that what you believe? A yes or no answer will do fine.

Response; In other words, you want me to answer your strawman

What strawman? I quoted an Islamic site.
So then Itake it we  can safely say that you do not believe that Abraham, Hagar or Ishmael were ever in the area  where Mecca was eventually settled, and that the islamic website I quoted is lying.

[PeteWaldo]

It doesn't work that way. My claim was made on three different verses. So you need to address those verses since it is my claim. Not your pathetic strawman of asking questions on what was never stated. So your weak strawman will continue to be ignored. As stated,
YOUR Bible says Kedar is in Arabia (Isaiah 21:13-16). YOUR Bible says he is the son of Ishmael (Genesis 25:13) and YOUR Bible says Ishmael lived in the Wilderness of Paran (Genesis 21:21).

So if Kedar is in Arabia and he is the son of Ishmael then Ishmael is ALSO in Arabia. And if Ishmael lived in Paran then Paran is ALSO IN ARABIA.

THIS IS YOUR BIBLE.

Which I agreed  with just as it is expressed in the maps I presented. And as repeated ad nauseum.

The fact that everyone is watching you run from this is amusing.

Why not try actually looking at what I presented in all the prior posts, that agrees with what you again repeated here. See what I mean about a broken mind? I've been agreeing with you the whole time, just as the maps I presented do.

[Al-Fatihah]

It doesn't work that way. My claim was made on three different verses. So you need to address those verses since it is my claim. Not your pathetic strawman of asking questions on what was never stated. So your weak strawman will continue to be ignored. As stated,
YOUR Bible says Kedar is in Arabia (Isaiah 21:13-16). YOUR Bible says he is the son of Ishmael (Genesis 25:13) and YOUR Bible says Ishmael lived in the Wilderness of Paran (Genesis 21:21).

So if Kedar is in Arabia and he is the son of Ishmael then Ishmael is ALSO in Arabia. And if Ishmael lived in Paran then Paran is ALSO IN ARABIA.

THIS IS YOUR BIBLE.

Which I agreed  with just as it is expressed in the maps I presented. And as repeated ad nauseum.

The fact that everyone is watching you run from this is amusing.

Why not try actually looking at what I presented in all the prior posts, that agrees with what you again repeated here. See what I mean about a broken mind? I've been agreeing with you the whole time, just as the maps I presented do.

Response: Then if you agree then the discussion is over as I made my point.

[PeteWaldo]

It doesn't work that way. My claim was made on three different verses. So you need to address those verses since it is my claim. Not your pathetic strawman of asking questions on what was never stated. So your weak strawman will continue to be ignored. As stated,
YOUR Bible says Kedar is in Arabia (Isaiah 21:13-16). YOUR Bible says he is the son of Ishmael (Genesis 25:13) and YOUR Bible says Ishmael lived in the Wilderness of Paran (Genesis 21:21).

So if Kedar is in Arabia and he is the son of Ishmael then Ishmael is ALSO in Arabia. And if Ishmael lived in Paran then Paran is ALSO IN ARABIA.

THIS IS YOUR BIBLE.

Which I agreed  with just as it is expressed in the maps I presented. And as repeated ad nauseum.

The fact that everyone is watching you run from this is amusing.

Why not try actually looking at what I presented in all the prior posts, that agrees with what you again repeated here. See what I mean about a broken mind? I've been agreeing with you the whole time, just as the maps I presented do.

Response: Then if you agree then the discussion is over as I made my point.

No, you only confirmed your abject ignorance to geography. While in Arabia, the wilderness of Paran and the Ishmaelites were in northern Arabia, still 1200 kilometers from where Mecca was eventually established nearly 2,000 years later. Let alone that a caravan route was not established from northern Arabia to southern Arabia until over a thousand years after Ishmael romaed the earth.

Now answer the question. Do you believe that Islamic site regarding Abraham taking Hagar and Ishmael to Mecca? Do you believe this Islamic site is lying or not?

http://www.thekeytoislam.com/en/what-do-you-know-about-zamzam-well.aspx

"Abraham took Hagar and her son, Ishmael to a place near the Kabah; he left them under a tree at the site of Zamzam. No one lived in Makkah back then, yet Abraham made them sit there, leaving them with some dates, and a small water-skin. Thereafter he set out towards home."

[Al-Fatihah]

No, you only confirmed your abject ignorance to geography. While in Arabia, the wilderness of Paran and the Ishmaelites were in northern Arabia, still 1200 kilometers from where Mecca was eventually established nearly 2,000 years later. Let alone that a caravan route was not established from northern Arabia to southern Arabia until over a thousand years after Ishmael romaed the earth.

Now answer the question. Do you believe that Islamic site regarding Abraham taking Hagar and Ishmael to Mecca? Do you believe this Islamic site is lying or not?

http://www.thekeytoislam.com/en/what-do-you-know-about-zamzam-well.aspx

"Abraham took Hagar and her son, Ishmael to a place near the Kabah; he left them under a tree at the site of Zamzam. No one lived in Makkah back then, yet Abraham made them sit there, leaving them with some dates, and a small water-skin. Thereafter he set out towards home."

Response: Rather, you just continued to confirm your absurdity, for no historical document supports your view that that Ishmaelites were 1200 kilometers from Mecca. Not one. So you continue to sound foolish with your lies. Furthermore, Muhammad is a descendant of the Ishmaelites so your whole claim is clearly false.

[PeteWaldo]

No, you only confirmed your abject ignorance to geography. While in Arabia, the wilderness of Paran and the Ishmaelites were in northern Arabia, still 1200 kilometers from where Mecca was eventually established nearly 2,000 years later. Let alone that a caravan route was not established from northern Arabia to southern Arabia until over a thousand years after Ishmael romaed the earth.

Now answer the question. Do you believe that Islamic site regarding Abraham taking Hagar and Ishmael to Mecca? Do you believe this Islamic site is lying or not?

http://www.thekeytoislam.com/en/what-do-you-know-about-zamzam-well.aspx

"Abraham took Hagar and her son, Ishmael to a place near the Kabah; he left them under a tree at the site of Zamzam. No one lived in Makkah back then, yet Abraham made them sit there, leaving them with some dates, and a small water-skin. Thereafter he set out towards home."

Response: Rather, you just continued to confirm your absurdity, for no historical document supports your view that that Ishmaelites were 1200 kilometers from Mecca. Not one. So you continue to sound foolish with your lies. Furthermore, Muhammad is a descendant of the Ishmaelites so your whole claim is clearly false.

More thread flushing and repeatd failure to reply, once again breaking the agreement you made when you joined the forum. But then that's the Muhammadan way, isn't it. Expiating oaths and vows.

Sahih Muslim 15:4052 Allah's Messenger (may peace he upon him) said: He who took an oath and (later on) found something better than that should do that, and expiate for (breaking) his vow.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=950.0

I will lock the thread. When you are ready to actually reply let me know and I will reopen the thread for your response.

Do not attempt to post new threads or attempt to reply to others, until you are ready to comply with what you promised when you joined the forum, or the posts will go to spam.

For the 4th or 5th time, is this Islamic site lying, or do you believe what they are saying? You can PM me when you  are ready to reply and I will open the thread for your reply.

http://www.thekeytoislam.com/en/what-do-you-know-about-zamzam-well.aspx

"Abraham took Hagar and her son, Ishmael to a place near the Kabah; he left them under a tree at the site of Zamzam. No one lived in Makkah back then, yet Abraham made them sit there, leaving them with some dates, and a small water-skin. Thereafter he set out towards home."

[Al-Fatihah]

I split off and locked the space you wasted, and forced me to waste in reply, in your efforts to run and hide from the prior question.
When  you joined the forum you agreed to engage in an exchange. If you do not reply to the prior question, but engage in further obfuscation, that reply will also be split off and added to that locked wasted posting.
Better yet I will threaten you with simply discarding it altogether, to prevent you from wasting your own time like that. So stay on topic and engage.

Response: You did what is expected from a bias moderator, which you agreed you would not do. When you see that your responses are being refuted, you create strawman questions that are irrelevant in an attempt to distract from the fact that your arguments have been refuted. Then when someone does not answer your strawman because it is irrelevant, you put on restrictions.

Putting restrictions on opposing views is bad moderation. Period. The purpose of debate is for people to express their DIFFERENT views in their DIFFERENT styles of presentation. So to restrict a person from doing so is not a discussion or a debate.

[PeteWaldo]

I split off and locked the space you wasted, and forced me to waste in reply, in your efforts to run and hide from the prior question.
When  you joined the forum you agreed to engage in an exchange. If you do not reply to the prior question, but engage in further obfuscation, that reply will also be split off and added to that locked wasted posting.
Better yet I will threaten you with simply discarding it altogether, to prevent you from wasting your own time like that. So stay on topic and engage.

Response: You did what is expected from a bias moderator, which you agreed you would not do. When you see that your responses are being refuted, you create strawman questions that are irrelevant in an attempt to distract from the fact that your arguments have been refuted. Then when someone does not answer your strawman because it is irrelevant, you put on restrictions.

Putting restrictions on opposing views is bad moderation. Period. The purpose of debate is for people to express their DIFFERENT views in their DIFFERENT styles of presentation. So to restrict a person from doing so is not a discussion or a debate.

Ignoring a question 4 times is to specifically avoid "a discussion or a debate", nor is running and hiding from that discussion a "different style of presentation" but rather is rude, bad forum citizenship, and a violation of the rules you agreed to abide by when you joined the forum. It is exactly this kind of inconsiderate, rude behavior typical of Muslims running and hiding from truth, that prompted the rules to be made some years after the forum began.

[Al-Fatihah]

Since the cat's got your tongue because perhaps even you saw the inevitability of the answer, let me help you get over this hump as well.
According to that Islamic site Abraham took Hagar and Ishmael, to a place in the Arabian desert where there was only the Kaaba, and then went back home.
Sounds simple enough doesn't it?
But considering the actual, physical, demographic and geographical impossibility of that claim, the only thing that would seem simple is the mind of someone that would believe that specifically counter-scriptural and thus anti-God hogwash.

Abraham lived in Hebron, where even Muslims visit his grave today.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1306.0
Hebron is not that many miles north of the Wilderness of Beersheba, where Hagar wandered with Ishmael, after Abraham kicked them out of his house at his wife Sarah's request. The approximate locations are pinned on this graphic:
(and no my friend, in case you become tempted again, it is no more physically possible to move the locations of Jerusalem, Hebron or Beersheba, 1200 kilometers south to Mecca, than it would be to move Sinai, Assyria, Egypt, Paran, Havilah or Shur over 1000 kilometers south to Mecca):



So for the claim in that website to be true - for all of the Islamic so-called "tradition" that masquerades as thousands of years of pre-4th century history of Mecca, that was all created and put to the pen in the 8th to 10th centuries AD without reference to any actual historical record that dates before about the 6th century AD, to be true - Abraham would have had to have abandoned his wife Sarah, to wander across 1200 kilometers of harsh, barren, unexplored, uncharted desert with his wife Sarah's slave Hagar and son, to dump them off in an empty spot where Mecca was eventually built. Then according to that website he simply turned around and would have had to wander the 1200 kilometers back home to Hebron alone.
Even more comically, he would have been doing this well over a thousand years before the historical record informs us that overland travel was possible along the Red Sea in Arabia (the advent of which was around the 8th-6th century AD).

Wouldn't you agree that a person would have to be in appallingly abject ignorance to scripture, history, archaeology and particularly the demographic and geographical impossibility of that ridiculous counter-scriptural nonsense, in order to believe it?

Again I ask you my friend, do you believe any version of the impossible tale told in that Islamic website?

Response: Yet your Bible shows otherwise, As kedar lives in Arabia (Isaiah 21:13-6), who is also the son of Ishmael (Genesis 25:13), which means Ishmael is in Arabia. And since Ishmael dwelt in the Wilderness of Paran (Genesis 21:21), then Mt. Paran is also in Arabia.

Therefore, the person coming from Mt. Paran in Arabia  with 10,000 followers and a law in (Deuteronomy 33:2) refers to Muhammad (saw) as he is the only person documented in history to do so.

Once again, your own Bible proves Muhammad (saw) is a Prophet.

[PeteWaldo]

Already replied to over and over ad nauseum. The spirit of antichrist has apparently broken your mind to such an extent that it has rendered you as functionally as illiterate as the fale prophet you follow.
Yes the Ishmaelitesw lived in northern Arabia.
Yes the event written about happened before Moses' day, just as indicated in the passage.
Yes Moses was writing about the tribes of Israel, just as he listed in the passage.
Yes Ishmael and his tribes lived in northern Arabia, and tended their flocks in the "fertile crescent" over 1,000 kilometers from where Mecca was eventually settled in the 4th century AD.
Yes it would have been impossible for them to find  their way to the barren desert in SW Arabia ,where Mecca was eventually settled 2,000 years later, because the caravan route was not established until around the 8th-6th century AD.
Yes it would have been demographically and geographically impossible for the Ishmaellites to have ever been near where Mecca was eventually established 2,000 years later.
Grow up.

Now post a substantive answer the question I asked on that thread.

[Al-Fatihah]

Maybe this will help. Here's an account from an Islamic website:
http://www.thekeytoislam.com/en/what-do-you-know-about-zamzam-well.aspx

"Abraham took Hagar and her son, Ishmael to a place near the Kabah; he left them under a tree at the site of Zamzam. No one lived in Makkah back then, yet Abraham made them sit there, leaving them with some dates, and a small water-skin. Thereafter he set out towards home."

Is that what you believe?

Since the cat's got your tongue because perhaps even you saw the inevitability of the answer, let me help you get over this hump as well.
According to that Islamic site Abraham took Hagar and Ishmael, to a place in the Arabian desert where there was only the Kaaba, and then went back home.
Sounds simple enough doesn't it?
But considering the actual, physical, demographic and geographical impossibility of that claim, the only thing that would seem simple is the mind of someone that would believe that specifically counter-scriptural and thus anti-God hogwash.

Abraham lived in Hebron, where even Muslims visit his grave today.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1306.0
Hebron is not that many miles north of the Wilderness of Beersheba, where Hagar wandered with Ishmael, after Abraham kicked them out of his house at his wife Sarah's request. The approximate locations are pinned on this graphic:
(and no my friend, in case you become tempted again, it is no more physically possible to move the locations of Jerusalem, Hebron or Beersheba, 1200 kilometers south to Mecca, than it would be to move Sinai, Assyria, Egypt, Paran, Havilah or Shur over 1000 kilometers south to Mecca):



So for the claim in that website to be true - for all of the Islamic so-called "tradition" that masquerades as thousands of years of pre-4th century history of Mecca, that was all created and put to the pen in the 8th to 10th centuries AD without reference to any actual historical record that dates before about the 6th century AD, to be true - Abraham would have had to have abandoned his wife Sarah, to wander across 1200 kilometers of harsh, barren, unexplored, uncharted desert with his wife Sarah's slave Hagar and son, to dump them off in an empty spot where Mecca was eventually built. Then according to that website he simply turned around and would have had to wander the 1200 kilometers back home to Hebron alone.
Even more comically, he would have been doing this well over a thousand years before the historical record informs us that overland travel was possible along the Red Sea in Arabia (the advent of which was around the 8th-6th century AD).

Wouldn't you agree that a person would have to be in appallingly abject ignorance to scripture, history, archaeology and particularly the demographic and geographical impossibility of that ridiculous counter-scriptural nonsense, in order to believe it?

Again I ask you my friend, do you believe any version of the impossible tale told in that Islamic website?

Response: I believe what your Bible confirms, which is Kedar is in Arabia (Isaiah 21:13-16), who is also the son of Ishmael (Genesis 25:13), which means Ishmael is in Arabia. And since Ishmael dwelt in the wilderness of Paran (Genesis 21:21), then Mt. Paran mentioned in Deuteronomy 33:2 is also in Arabia. And in Deuteronomy 33:2, it says someone from Mt. Paran, which is in Arabia, came with 10,000 followers and a law and the only person in history to do so is Muhammad in the battle of the trench.

Thus your own Bible confirms that Muhammad (saw) is a true Prophet.

[Al-Fatihah]

Maybe this will help. Here's an account from an Islamic website:
http://www.thekeytoislam.com/en/what-do-you-know-about-zamzam-well.aspx

"Abraham took Hagar and her son, Ishmael to a place near the Kabah; he left them under a tree at the site of Zamzam. No one lived in Makkah back then, yet Abraham made them sit there, leaving them with some dates, and a small water-skin. Thereafter he set out towards home."

Is that what you believe?

Response: I believe what your own Bible says, which is Kedar is from Arabia (Isaiah 21:13-16), who is also the son of Ishmael (Genesis 25:13), which means Ishmael is also in Arabia. Additionally, since he also dwelt in the wilderness of Paran (Genesis 21:21), than means Mt. Paran is also in Arabia.

That means that the person mentioned in Deuteronomy 33:2 that comes from Mt. Paran with 10,000 followers and a law is Muhammad (saw) as he is the only person in history who is documented in doing so as mentioned in the Battle of the Trench.

So your own Bible confirms Muhammad is a true Prophet. Debunked as usual.