Muhammad and Safiyah (Saffiya, Safiyya)

[PeteWaldo]

For those that didn't drill down into the thread from which the following quote is taken, I thought that this forum member's defense of Muhammad's relationship with Safiyah, would make a good separate subject to help Muhammad's followers better see the nature of the man they follow and are thus stuck constantly having to make excuses for. Either that or this thread if offered as an opportunity for them to help their brother defend Muhammad's behavior:

All that excuse making, as directly opposed to absolutely no need for the same, by those of us that follow the sinless Messiah, Jesus Christ:
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/jesus_or_muhammad.htm

The only thing he denounced was not completing the sex act when they raped the captives.

This is made patently obvious since he engaged in the very same, with Safiyah, as one example. Muhammad had ".....killed her father, her husband and many of her relatives....." yet Muhammad took poor Safiyah very shortly thereafter.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2829.0
http://www.inthenameofallah.org/Safiyyah's%20RAPE%20by%20Muhammad.html

His marriage to Safiyah has nothing to do with rape nor enslavement. There was no objection from Safiyah nor anyone else about marrying the Prophet (peace be upon him) when this happened.

See this, if you want to learn something:

http://www.letmeturnthetables.com/2009/11/slanders-regarding-holy-prophets-pbuh.html

"Taking together all the narrations above we come to know that Sayyidah Safiya (RA) had a feeling of affection for the Prophet (pbuh) before they met (Tabarani 19667). When her father and husband were killed in the battle she developed some feeling of hatred for the Prophet (PBUH) for natural reasons but when the Prophet (PBUH) explained to her what all her father did to him (Tabarani 19668) she realized that her father met such an end because of his own deeds (Ibn Saad 8/123) and so her ill feelings for the Prophet (PBUH) completely vanished and she was left with the feelings of love for the Prophet (pbuh) that the All-Wise and Almighty had put in her heart through a dream (Tabarani 19667 & 19668)."

I see. You seem to be suggesting that you believe that the women and little girls of the literate, peaceful, faithful, Jewish date farming community of the Banu Qurayza, whose little brothers, sons, husbands, fathers and grandpas were beheaded at Muhammad's behest for denying him, would then desire to have sex with the men that beheaded their husbands and young sons and sold their littler brothers, sisters, moms, and grandmothers into slavery (while also stealing their property and the fruit of their labor of generations). Do I understand you correctly?

Yes, just like in the example that I mentioned above. They were aware of the hostile actions that their own family members were taking against the Prophet and his followers. Gradually, some of them even started to love the Prophet and his followers, and naturally enough, then they were willing to marry them. There is nothing shocking to that.

Moreover, it was a common practice at that time that the Muslims would marry women who were widowed in order to protect them and to support them, as long as they were willing. Is that unethical? No. Is that rape? No. Is that enslavement? No.

Muhammad slaughtered the Jews because they refused to accept him as a prophet of our great God Yahweh, knowing they would have to abandon our Torah in order to do so.
http://www.petewaldo.com/banu_qurayza_massacre.htm#jews_torah
Let alone that since Muhammad and his boys didn't work for their livings, but lived by stealing the fruit of the labor of others, along with their insatiable lusts that drove them to sexually abuse and enslave the women and little girls of those they vanquished.

Followed by:

The only thing he denounced was not completing the sex act when they raped the captives.

This is made patently obvious since he engaged in the very same, with Safiyah, as one example. Muhammad had ".....killed her father, her husband and many of her relatives....." yet Muhammad took poor Safiyah very shortly thereafter.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2829.0
http://www.inthenameofallah.org/Safiyyah's%20RAPE%20by%20Muhammad.html

His marriage to Safiyah has nothing to do with rape nor enslavement. There was no objection from Safiyah nor anyone else about marrying the Prophet (peace be upon him) when this happened.

So then we can presume that you now believe that having sex with captives and slaves is of God, rather than Satan?

See this, if you want to learn something:

http://www.letmeturnthetables.com/2009/11/slanders-regarding-holy-prophets-pbuh.html

"Taking together all the narrations above we come to know that Sayyidah Safiya (RA) had a feeling of affection for the Prophet (pbuh) before they met (Tabarani 19667). When her father and husband were killed in the battle she developed some feeling of hatred for the Prophet (PBUH) for natural reasons but when the Prophet (PBUH) explained to her what all her father did to him (Tabarani 19668).........

I see a word and number but coming up somewhat short on an excuse for mass murder.

.......she realized that her father met such an end because of his own deeds (Ibn Saad 8/123) and so her ill feelings for the Prophet (PBUH) completely vanished and she was left with the feelings of love for the Prophet (pbuh) that the All-Wise and Almighty had put in her heart through a dream (Tabarani 19667 & 19668)."

So then we're to believe that she acquired such an instant and burning love and desire for Muhammad, that she didn't mind that besides her father, Muhammad slaughtered ".....her husband and many of her relatives"?

And then by:

I see. You seem to be suggesting that you believe that the women and little girls of the literate, peaceful, faithful, Jewish date farming community of the Banu Qurayza, whose little brothers, sons, husbands, fathers and grandpas were beheaded at Muhammad's behest for denying him, would then desire to have sex with the men that beheaded their husbands and young sons and sold their littler brothers, sisters, moms, and grandmothers into slavery (while also stealing their property and the fruit of their labor of generations). Do I understand you correctly?

Yes, just like in the example that I mentioned above. They were aware of the hostile actions that their own family members were taking against the Prophet and his followers.

Did you notice how you shifted from your obligation to explain how women whose husbands, sons and fathers were beheaded, would desire to have sex with the men responsible for murdering them, to instead justifying the rape and sexual slavery of those women and little girls?

We realize it would be convenient for you to believe, that what you suggest would constitute justification for the mass-murder beheading of little post-pubescent farm boys and their peaceful, faithful, date-farming dads and grandpas, but you need to present some evidence from the Quran or Ishaq, Tabari, Bukhari or Muslim, that suggests that the Quraish were the betrayers rather than as is far more obvious, the ones that were betrayed.

Gradually, some of them even started to love the Prophet and his followers, and naturally enough, then they were willing to marry them. There is nothing shocking to that.

Moreover, it was a common practice at that time that the Muslims would marry women who were widowed in order to protect them and to support them, as long as they were willing. Is that unethical? No. Is that rape? No. Is that enslavement? No.

[edited later for emphasis] I appreciate the transparent effort, but we are discussing rape of captives and slaves, by the very men that made them widows. [end edit]

And so rather than your earlier belief, you now seem to have been converted into believing that having sex with captives and slaves would be of God and not Satan. So why would you fault The Islamic State for doing as Muhammad and his follower's did? Isn't Muhammad supposed to be the example you Muslims are supposed to follow?

Let's continue. Do you believe that The Islamic State's theft of the property of others is of God or of Satan?

http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4981.msg19174#msg19174

[PeteWaldo]

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Safiyah

[PeteWaldo]

For those followers of Muhammad that are  tired of always having to make excuses for his behavior, why not come to know the love of the one true God, as He revealed Himself through the scriptures of Jews and Christians?
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/the_love_of_god.htm

[PeteWaldo]

When her father and husband were killed in the battle she developed some feeling of hatred for the Prophet (PBUH) for natural reasons but when the Prophet (PBUH) explained to her what all her father did to him (Tabarani 19668) she realized that her father met such an end because of his own deeds (Ibn Saad 8/123) and so her ill feelings for the Prophet (PBUH) completely vanished and she was left with the feelings of love for the Prophet

Perhaps someone can enlighten me further, but besides Muhammad being known in the neighborhood by this time as a murderous caravan plundering hostage ransomer on an imperialistic slaughtering rampage - after all what reason would that give someone to recognize him as an enemy of humanity - from what I have been able to find online about the great treachery of Safiyah's father Huyayy ibn Akhtab would seem to have been to recognize that Muhammad was a false prophet and thus an enemy of our great God Yahweh.

Saffiyah says, "I was my father's and my uncle's favorite child. When the Messenger of Allah came to Madinah and stayed at Quba, my parents went to him at night and when they looked disconcerted and worn out. I received them cheerfully but to my surprise no one of them turned to me. They were so grieved that they did not feel my presence. I heard my uncle, Abu Yasir, saying to my father, 'Is it really him?' He said, 'Yes, by Allah'. My uncle said: 'Can you recognize him and confirm this?' He said, 'Yes'. My uncle said, 'How do you feel towards him?' He said, 'By Allah I shall be his enemy as long as I live.'" (Ibn Hisham, As-Sirah an-Nabawiyyah, vol. 2, pp. 257-258, Cited in Muhammad Fathi Mus'ad, The Wives of the Prophet Muhammad: Their Strives and Their Lives, p.162)

Now I would imagine a Jew would have said "'By Yahweh (or Jehovah or even Adonai) I shall be his enemy as long as I live." But let's set that commentary on the veracity of Islam's books aside and consider Huyayy's transgression:

"At first Huyayy's opposition simply took the form of public debates. On one occasion, he had a discussion with Muhammad upon the mystical letters beginning some of the Surahs in the Quran.[2] When a prominent rabbi, Abdullah ibn Salam, became a Muslim, Huyayy was one of those who said to him: "There are no prophets among the Arabs, but your master is an ordinary human king."[3]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huyayy_ibn_Akhtab#After_the_hijrah_.E2.80.94_622_CE

So Huyayy obviously knew the score. Huyayy shared the same recognition that Muhammad was a false prophet, as all the other faithful Torah-believing Jews easily recognized and concluded, and as they of course continue to recognize and conclude to this day. Indeed Huyayy remained a champion of our great God Yahweh, even in the face of his imminent martyrdom:

Tabari VIII:35/Ishaq:464 "Huyayy, the enemy of Allah, was brought out. He was wearing a rose-colored suit of clothes that he had torn all over with fingertip-sized holes so that it would not be taken as booty. His hands were bound to his neck with a rope. When he looked at Muhammad he said, 'I do not regret opposing you. Whoever forsakes God will be damned.' He sat down and was beheaded."

In other words Huyayy was guilty of the same "crime", that the Banu Qurayza farmers were slaughtered for, who never raised a hand against Muhammad:

Ishaq:461 "After the siege exhausted and terrorized them, the Jews felt certain that the Apostle would not leave them until he had exterminated them. So they decided to talk to Ka'b Asad. He said, 'People of the Jews, you see what has befallen you. I shall propose three alternatives. Take whichever one you please.' He said, 'Swear allegiance to this man and accept him; for, by Allah, it has become clear to you that he is a prophet sent from Allah. It is he that you used to find mentioned in your scripture book. Then you will be secure in your lives, your property, your children, and your wives.'"

But of course the Jews knew full well through the Torah that Muhammad couldn't possibly be a prophet of our great God Yahweh, and so they preferred to have their heads cut off for remaining faithful to our great God, rather than to save their lives by rejecting our God and thereby following Muhammad to Hell. Above we also see Muhammad conveniently labeled as the terrorist that he was. So.....

Ishaq:462/Tabari VIII:30 "The Jews said, 'We will never abandon the Torah or exchange it for the Qur'an.' Asad said, 'Since you reject this proposal of mine, then kill your children and your wives and go out to Muhammad and his Companions as men who brandish swords, leaving behind no impediments to worry you. If you die, you shall have left nothing behind; if you win you shall find other women and children.' The Jews replied, 'Why would we kill these poor ones? What would be the good of living after them?'"

Ishaq:463/Tabari VIII:34 "When Sa'd reached the Messenger of Allah and the Muslims, the Prophet said, 'Arise and go to your master and help him dismount.' Then Muhammad said, 'Pass judgment on them.' Sa'd replied, 'I pass judgment that their men shall be killed, their women and children made captives, and their property divided.' Allah's Apostle proclaimed, 'You have passed judgment on the Jews with the judgment of Allah and the judgment of His Messenger.'"

And so it was then as it continues today with the Islamic State, while it is perhaps even easier for Christians to recognize Muhammad as a false prophet, through the New Testament:
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/muslim_persecution_of_christians.htm

Christian children were beheaded by the Islamic State for refusing to denounce Jesus Christ. Canon Andrew White - the “Vicar of Baghdad” - who fled to Israel recounts:
“ISIS turned up and said to the children, ‘You say the words that you will follow Mohammed,’ ”
“The children, all under 15, four of them, they said, ‘No, we love Yeshua [Jesus], we have always loved Yeshua.’
They chopped all their heads off.
How do you respond to that? You just cry.”
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/the_islamic_state.htm#christian_children_beheaded