Copy and Pasted Conversation with Preterist

[Pete]

6-8

[ personal note regarding an evangelized ]


To my experience, anti-Zionist preterist churches are the deadest churches. How many converted Jews do you count among your flock?

Pret, the only way Islam will be beaten is by the Sword of the Spirit brother, but we will walk naked into battle without putting EFFORT into opening our hearts and eyes, and seeking out the TRUTH.

I would encourage you to, rather than simply peddling a doctrine, as if it were a yardstick to measure others against, without having a clue as to what others believe, that rather you make an effort to look through other people's eyes and try to get a full understanding of what they believe, from inside their head, before comment.

The most concise and brick by brick way to see through mine is to read "The False Prophet", by Ellis Skolfield. He is a dear sweet 80 year old saint, that was raised in the scriptures on his mother's knee as missionaries in the Philippines. He has written about the central role of Islam in prophecy for over 27 years through FULFILLED prophecy.

The book is free online or in free PDF.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/contents_tfp.htm

You will NEVER be able to understand an entire CONTEXT of study - traditional continuous historic - by trying to wring it through the tiny window of a verse, and the filter of your doctrine.

The reformers obviously did not hold preterist doctrine since most, likely believed themselves to be living in the end times, doing what they could to implicate the pope as "The" "Antichrist".

May God bless and lead us all in ALL truth,
Pete

[Pete]

6-9

[[[so...
I answered your quesion on Rev 13 - the Beast. You have nothing to say about the interptretation?]]]]


I ignored your emails because I had already wasted too much of my time with you picking and choosing which parts of mine you chose to answer. I don't have time for that.


[[[[Yes God is using you to win souls among Muslims. Hallelujah!.]]]]


Your doctrine puts you shoulder to shoulder with them against the Jews. Preterist leaders even met with Hezbollah. The pope is going around kissing the Quran, bowing in mosques, sending millions more of those poor souls to perdition. Doctrine not that dissimilar to yours in regard to Jews.
So whose using your doctrine? Who pens ALL unsound doctrine?


[[[[[In fairness I will try to read your book and get back to you.]]]]


Don't bother. It is evermore obvious that you will be trying to wring it through the filter of your pre-conceived notion and doctrine. You don't have the eyes for it.


[[[[But have you nothing to say about Rev 13 as I presented it?]]]


Your premise - for openers (and closer). Non starter.


[[[First, the beasts/kingdoms in Dan 7 are the same kingdoms in Dan 2.
They are successively Babylon; Persia; Greece and Rome. In both visions the 4th kingdom is associated with 10 - toes, or horns. The same is in Revelation13.]]]

NOT THE SAME as Rev 13. You could only make that stretch through doctrinal necessity - but you can't see that. The beast of Rev 13 is described as the FIRST 3. Without the fourth.

Revelation 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as [the feet] of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

LEOPARD-BEAR-LION. PERIOD.

It is ADORNED with the 10 horns as the Roman empire scattered into about 10 western nations, AFTER IT WAS CONQUERED BY ISLAM.

world
New Testament Greek Definition:
3625 oikoumene {oy-kou-men'-ay}
feminine participle present passive of 3611 (as noun, by
implication of 1093); TDNT - 5:157,674; n f
AV - world 14, earth 1; 15
1) the inhabited earth
1a) the portion of the earth inhabited by the Greeks, in
distinction from the lands of the barbarians
1b) the Roman empire, all the subjects of the empire

You keep abandoning the ethnographic hermeneutic and ignoring that the kingdoms of John's whole "world", went in this order AS A MATTER OF HISTORICAL FACT.

Egypt
Assyria
Babylon
Medo-Persia
Greece - five "fallen"
Rome - beast that "one is" to John ruling as he wrote.
Islam - empire "not yet come"

THAT'S IT. THAT'S ALL OF THEM UNTO TODAY

Islamic empire two "beasts" first jihad (7 headed beast. Head wounded to death in Battle of Tours)

Islam interrupted by 2 horned beast that was "in the presence of" the LBL beast - Islam.
Two horns Crusades, British mandate and western powers unto today. Gave the LBL beast it's restored power. "healed" the beast. http://www.beholdthebeast.com/leopard_bear_lion_beast.htm

The beast that "was" to John (historical composite of 5 fallen, or final fallen, as Greece) and "is not" (to John, so the 8th cannot be about Roman Empire), additionally the 8th is of the 7 or 7th. Second Jihad in the image of the First Jihad.

As I remember you expressed hostility toward the maps, but they would help someone - with open eyes - considerably, to clarify the geographical matters of historical FACT.
Click on this link for a quick review:
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/johns_eight_beasts.htm#maps_8_beasts


You continue to ignore also that your view requires changing history. Throw it out. It won't work. It doesn't need trimming around the margins.

SDAs and Historicist's need the papacy or catholic church to be antichrist. They can throw it out on that single element.

Futurists need a rebuilt temple that cannot be found in scripture. They can throw it out on that single element.

Make no mistake. Satan is the author of all unsound doctrine.


You ignored several times when pressed as to HOW exactly you explain away Daniel's "times" problems, or any of the other math works out. Daniel's are 2 parallel problems that confirm each other over a span of 2500 years.

Would you explain this away as some sort of accident? If so you would be the first in 2-1/2 years of my having pressed people with that question.
Can you imagine that there is a reason you ignored it?

You also fail to realize that you hold continuous historic view of Old Testament prophecy, then throw it away for New Testament prophecy. What gives you license to do this?

But carelessness, and having to spiritualize away that which you cannot explain, characterized the majority of your view that you showed me.

I don't have time for this. Sorry.
Go back through and consider all the questions I asked you in those emails that you ignored. Better yet. Read a book.



How many saved Jews are there in your church? This is the reason that I have no patience for you and your anti-semitic view that would do nothing but turn a Jew away even IF you felt to bring them to the Lord. But you're too busy pointing the finger and condemning them - like the Pope.
The Lord pressed me into service when I simply asked Him what my responsibility was toward my Jewish friends whose lives revolve around their temples. He picked me up, led me out of doctrine, and I haven't looked back. I AM FAR MORE CONCERNED FOR MY CATHOLIC FRIENDS today than I am my Jewish friends. And all that abandon the reformation, such as yourself.

I have not had a plan for a day ever since I asked the Lord that question. For over 2 years. 10 - 14 hour days. The Lord puts people in my path that I LEARN FROM. You have nothing to teach me. I have been around that block several times. I have spent months in preterist forums, geting banned even though posting in all civility. Banned for truth. The same questions that you had to ignore.

[Pete]

6-9

"Because you asked, there are quite a few converted Jews in my church. I am one also."

Geanoligical Jew? Full or half?
Could you share a little testimony in what brought you to Jesus, when in your life, and when in time? I would sure appreciate it.
I still don't believe you have shared your denomination.
Thanks.

[Pete]

6-9

1. I think that the view that says "Jews have a special covenant with God , and therefore don't need the Gospel, don't need to repent of worshipping a false god of their traditions, " is anti-semetic hatred. Jews must turn to Christ or they are condemned. time and again the Jews in the OT turned to idols and eventually God detroyed them - 10 tribes gone forever... Judah and Benjamin taken to Babylon. Once Jesus appeared and called the elect the rest were condemned for refusing to repent - "this generation".
Like the story of Noah, this AD70 Judgement of Jesus should be the example to all generations to fear Christ and repent. But no, people like you want to believe Jews still have salvation without Christ.

2. Rev cannot apply to Islam because Islam didn't exist until 610 A.D. about the time of the first Pope. (I have heard Historicists say they are both two sides of the same coin. One is spiriitual and the other is the "black locusts" -tormentors.)
Rev 1:1 &3 and 22:7, 10 12 & 20 put the book in the first century - pre-Fall-of-Jerusalem. The things in the book must take place shortly after the writing of it. That is the problem with the "Continuous Historic " system - it doesn't acknowledge the time texts that bracket the prophecies.

3. As for your math, Dispy's do the same thing. They get some mathmatician to contrive all these complicated dates and days, and it confuses most people to the point that no-one feels qualified to even question it. But there is the problem again, that it is contrived. There is no indication in the text that "days mean years" . Are you not open to re-examining your interpretation? Do you not read outside of your view - to at least compare notes?
God did not mean 70 x 360 (days means years) of captivity in Babylon - He meant 70 literal years.
(Not withstanding even after the decree to go back, 75% rebelled and decided to stay in Babylon, which had become Persia -Book of Esther- Even at the time Daniel wrote the prophecy of the Beasts and the Statue it had begun to unfold...)

Because you asked, there are quite a few converted Jews in my church. I am one also.

[Pete]

The above was the last post before this entire conversation was moved into this public setting. Good time to review unanswered questions from the top starting with dating of the book of Revelation.