In response to the video in the original post I received the following PM. I had been merely attempting to introduce another point of view on a YouTuber's video regarding the Sabbath, but my responses were censored from his videos, channel comments, and video responses. Yesterday I spent
a little time on the subject so I could better respond to the person that PM'd me. I edited a little further for this post:
[[[Hi you commented a while back on a post where I said to check out some forerunner777 videos.
Also you sent a video about sunday worship.
Watching the video now.
Here are some things I have problems with.
1. The video says they worshiped on the Lord's Day and calls this Sunday.
But the Bible says....
Luke 6:4
Then Jesus said to them, "The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.]]]
This PM isn't about what is, or isn't. It's about a few things you might consider. Read the verses you proof-texted in context.
In what context is this first one said?
Luk 6:2 And certain of the Pharisees said unto them, Why do ye that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath days?
It is said in a chapter when Jesus and His disciples are working on the Sabbath. He is demonstrating exception for his breaking of the law. Seems to me He is pointing out the very opposite of what you used the verse to prove.
That is why Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath.
Luk 6:9 Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy [it]?
[[[2. Hard to trust in many of the extra biblical resources shown. But I do believe many did move towareds Sunday because that was the Pegan Holiday .......]]]
So you see what you just said? That if there was a reason that Christians met on Sunday that it was because it was the pagan holiday. Do you think that was THEIR reason?
[[[[.....that many kept to begin with plus it was more a big feast/party day ..........]]]
To my knowledge there was no "party day" of the week until into the 20th century. Folks worked 6 days a week before then.
[[[........while the sabbath was about not working.Still many kept the sabbath.
Acts 15:21 "For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day."]]]
What's the context? Was Moses under the new covenant or old?
The verse you proof text is within the context of a rebuke when someone was trying to reintroduce the law back into the ecclesia. Acting not very dissimilar to the fashion in which you are.
Act 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, [and said], Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
[[[Acts 18:4 "And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks."]]]
So you can see that he went to the synagogue to REASON WITH the Jews and Gentiles. Does this indicate they were all Christians meeting? No.
Do you think he engaged in Christian worship there? Did he break bread and sup with wine in communion with his brethren? Or did he go there to PERSUADE those who still didn't recognize Jesus was their Messiah?
[[[3. The nine points.
1. Does it matter what day he rode the donkey? Do we change the whole system of what day to worship because of this?
2. Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday because the law was to rest on the Sabbath. Jesus is simply going back to work on Sunday. If Sunday is now our day of rest Jesus should have rested that day.]]]
To make a claim as to whether the resurrection qualified as work or rest, or any of what you wrote here, is nothing more than speculation, unsupported by scripture.
[[[3-4 Yes Jesus is again going back to work by appearing to the disciples, still there is nothing about changing the day of worship from saturday to sunday.]]]
Ditto for this claim.
1Th 5:21
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Perhaps if we see that Jesus is Lord OVER the Sabbath it will help introduce a new light. You seem to be trying to prove a doctrine more than get down to the truth - if indeed there is any definitive conclusion that can be drawn to begin with.
[[[5. Pentacost was a yearly holyday not a weekly one. you can't change a weekly holyday because of what happened one day on a yearly one.
6. So the Holy Spirity came down on a yearly holyday and that means we now keep sunday?]]]
But it seems the evidence may be more in favor of Sunday worship for the Ecclesia. You, yourself, quoted the purpose of the Apostles for going into the synagogues. They weren't always met warmly, were they? Take a look at this search for "synagogue" and read each verse in the context of the chapter:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=synagogue&t=KJV(I love doing word and term searches like that!)
So where did the Ecclesia meet to worship God through Jesus Christ? To break bread and sup in communion with each other? Archaeological evidence suggests that they met in homes. I think you would agree that a synagogue would have been a disruptive place for followers of Jesus to meet with each other.
Act 20:7 And upon the first [day] of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
It would seem this is a regular first day of the week time for the disciples to COME TOGETHER to break bread. How could Paul have met with his brethren on Saturdays if that was his day to "persuade" the Jews in the synagogue. Additionally, in the synagogues in which he was received well, he could stay for months, as evidenced in the "synagogue" chapters search above.
[[[7-8. I think your talking about the sermon that was at night that could have easily started earlier when there was still daylight being the end of the sabbath, or maybe it was dark already and it was the first day, either way by meeting on a day does not all of a sudden change a commandment. Plus they were still meeting on sabbath days.]]]
See what you did? You took perhaps the best scriptural evidence regarding either day, and subjected it to your speculation, and then discarded it out of hand. WHO was meeting on sabbath days? Certainly those in the synagogues were. But what about the brethren?
WHAT are the commandments you are suggesting were changed?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
WHERE are the commandments? As you quoted in your second PM they are in our inward parts.
[[[9. Number nine is completly false!! Read Luke 6:4. Jesus is Lord of the SABBATH!!!]]]
Context.
Try thinking Lord OVER the Sabbath. (it doesn't exactly say this but it is undeniable)
[[[That is enough of that video.
Anyone who says the Lords Day is sunday needs to go back and read the Bible.]]]
But you are making your case by proof-texting verses, that don't make a very good case for you to begin with. And the best scriptural evidence, you put your effort into speculating away, and discarded out of hand.
Again I highly recommend "Pagan Christianity" by Frank Viola is you want to read a good study on the paganization of the ecclesia by Constantine and others.
[[[ That is the Catholics Church Lords Day and that is all it is.
Here is theyre own quote.... "Sunday is our MARK of authority"]]]
What the RCC does or does not say it is, is irrelevant. Are we to try to do everything opposite the Roman Catholics? Deny that Jesus is the Son of God? Deny the cross? My sympathies don't lie with the Roman Church, but this isn't an argument.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=7.0What you mean is that is what you have deduced by your understanding of scripture. Yet you brushed aside the first day of the week breaking of bread - the body of Christ - for what you have been taught. If you had really studied those verses in context, and the other evidence regarding the first century ecclesia, I think you might not be quite so sure of yourself.
The reason you like forerunner777's videos is that he confirms what you already want to believe. That's what self-indoctrination is all about.
Anyone who does not allow constructive criticism of his point of view is a nicolaitian. It is usurping authority that belongs to Jesus Christ. Just like his "school" even more disastrously will accomplish.
One of the things God expresses a personal hatred of.
1Pe 5:3 Neither as being lords over [God's] heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.
The first century ecclesia was an every-member-function meeting.
[[[Your folling the tradition of man not the bible by keeping Sunday.]]]
But that is your - extremely minor - opinion, yet you state it as a matter of fact, in the form of a rebuke.
[[[Remember Jesus says in Jn 14:15
If you love Me, you will keep My commandments]]]
And I copy and pasted those commandments above.
Once we have a circumcision of the heart the Holy Spirit guides our actions. You yourself don't believe that whether we meet on Saturday or Sunday is a matter of salvation, yet you are spending your time going around spanking your brethren based on your own personal understanding, dividing the body of Christ.
Meanwhile there are 1.5 billion - 1/4 of mankind - who follow THE false prophet Mohammed, in which the most important fundamental of his stand-alone 7th century religion requires denying that Jesus is the Son of God ("shirk").
Is your time being well spent that way? Is arguing over Saturday or Sunday among brethren what's important?
Besides all of the rebukes in scripture for those trying to reintroduce the law back into the ecclesia you may well be skating on far thinner ice than that:
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Do you really think it's your job to go around telling brethren, what is and isn't, based on your personal understanding of scripture? Particularly since the overwhelming majority of those brethren choose to worship on Sunday? Let alone by the thin evidence you produced above?
Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
May God bless you sis,
Pete