QURAN'S CONFUSION "REPAIRED" BY ABROGATION - NASKH

[Peter]

Thread locked to avoid redundant posting. To comment on an identical copy please click here: http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=116.0

Out of only 114 suras in the Quran, a whopping 71 are subject to abrogation. Also see thread textual history of the Quran.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Kox5XNuyb8
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=96.0

The bible spans a period from Moses to Jesus over 16 centuries. Over that period mankind changed from desert dwelling nomads, to advanced nations that could follow religious laws from the Sanhedrin and the civil law of kings and emperors.
The Qur'an's 71 abrogated suras out of only 114 total, occurring within the brief period of 23 years demonstrates not divine revelation, but the changing whims of it's author.

For more on progressive revelation please visit this link
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=935.0

"Gerd Puin, the world's leading specialist in Arabic calligraphy and Qur'anic paleography, studying the oldest manuscripts, speaks with disdain about the willingness of Muslims and non-Muslims alike, to accept Islamic dogma. He says: "The Qur'an claims for itself that it is 'mubeen,' or clear, but if you just look at it, you will see that every fifth sentence or so simply doesn't make sense. Many Muslims will tell you otherwise, but the fact is that a fifth of the Qur'an is just incomprehensible. This is what has caused the traditional anxiety regarding translation. If the Qur'an is not comprehensible, if it can't even be understood in Arabic, then it's not translatable into any language. That is why Muslims are afraid."

Al-Nasikh wal-Mansoukh is the Arabic language book that details all of the abrogated verses, and what they have been abrogated by. Good videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Kox5XNuyb8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z2R-KVLCeg&NR=1

In Mohammed's own words:

(Yusuf Ali) Quran 2:106 None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?

2:106 (Asad) Any message which, We annul or consign to oblivion We replace with a better or a similar one. Dost thou not know that God has the power to will anything?

Hmmm.....not abrogated.....just........substituted.......for something better!
Does anyone really believe God to be that confused?

Like the sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

as a better substitute for the verse waaaay back in sura 2:256 Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

Or:
Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Or the declaration regarding discrepancy of 4.82 Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy.
Contradicted by the declaration of throwing out earlier suras for later ones that contradict them!!! Even his sura on contradiction is contradicted!

Even Mohammed seems to have known how he would be viewed by those not indoctrinated into Islam:

Surah 16:101 When We substitute one revelation for another, and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages), they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not.

Perhaps part of the reason there are 73 Islamic sects by some counts: http://www.islamonline.net/discussione/thread.jspa?threadID=4989&tstart=0

http://www.islamreview.com/articles/quransdoctrine.shtml

"In an attempt to polish Islam's image, Muslim activists usually quote verses from the Quran that were written in the early days of the Islamic movement while Mohammed lived in Mecca. Those passages make Islam appear loving and harmless because they call for love, peace and patience. Such is a deception. The activists fail to tell gullible people that such verses, though still in the Quran, were nullified, abrogated, rendered void by later passages that incite killing, decapitations, maiming, terrorism and religious intolerance. The latter verses were penned while Mohammed's headquarters was based in Medina.

When speaking with people of Christianized/Western societies, Muslim activists deliberately hide a major Islamic doctrine called "al-Nasikh wal-Mansoukh" (the Abrogator and the Abrogated). This simply means that in situations wherein verses contradict one another, the early verses are overridden by the latter verses. The chronological timing in which a verse was written determines its authority to establish policies within Islam. Non-Muslims cannot afford to be ignorant about the full implications of the Abrogator and the Abrogated Doctrine (al-Nasikh wal-Mansoukh). When Islamic spokesmen say that Islam is a religion of peace and that the Quran does not support such things as human rights infractions, gender bias and terrorism, they are lying. This means that the Western politicians and liberal journalists, who continually spout that Islam is a noble religion of peace, are in reality propagating a deception that they have been deceived into parroting."

Much more:
http://www.islamreview.com/articles/quransdoctrine.shtml

Another video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye5pPXrBl7g

A video detailing some specific verses: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtUhb_9rp9A

Islam is it's own worst enemy. That's the problem with the opposite of truth. The tangled web of deception.
The Quran, of course, could never be "repaired". It is the repetitive record of the ramblings of a 7th century illiterate false prophet that is the opposite of what the God of the bible prescribes. Islam is antichrist. It is the only anti-another-religion religion.

Naskh - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mvbkzewoyao

In depth:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/abrogatedverses.html

Evidences of the Bible - video playlist
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=6B907B1E2434DE4C

Thread locked to avoid redundant posting. To comment on an identical copy please click here: http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=116.0

[Peter]

Another excellent illustration from Dazednconfused

[[[[[Brotherjw YT PROFILE Part 04


××× 12). Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and WITHOUT SHEDDING OF BLOOD IS NO REMISSION.

>>> To prove the credibility of Pauls account, first answer point 03 above !]]]]]

That's easy. Pauls accounts are confirmed throughout the Gospel by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John's accounts.

Jhn 3:16      For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[[[[[[[[[[××× 13). Rom 6:23 For the WAGES OF SIN [is] DEATH; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

>>> see above


××× 14). MAKE NO MISTAKE ISLAM IS THE DIRECT OPPOSITE OF CHRISTIANITY. THE ONLY ANTI-ANOTHER-RELIGION, RELIGION, ON EARTH.

>>> FIRST Bible Lesson for Brotherjw !

Deuteronomy 17:3-5...

"And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, .....and

YOU MUST STONE SUCH ONE WITH STONES

AND SUCH ONE MUST DIE."


Exodus 22:20.

He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only,

HE SHALL BE UTTERLY DESTROYED.]]]]]]]]]]

The hatred and evil you are filled with through the spirit of antichrist prevents you from reading past the way God revealed Himself to His chosen people - the Jews - a few thousand years ago, when the Jews were desert dwelling nomads.

The reason Jeremiah prophesied a new covenant, and Jesus fulfilled that new covenant, was so that Gentiles like you and I could repent, so we don't have to have our hearts filled with hatred any more. Hatred for Jews or any other kuffaar.
Like Walid Shoebat. A former PLO terrorist, that loves Jews today, instead of throwing rocks at them as before.

John 8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.    5  Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?  
7  So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=877.0

[[[[[>>> Now compare with the Religion of ISLAM.


"LET THERE BE NO COMPULSION (FORCING OTHERS) IN RELIGION:

Truth stands out clear from error...

(Noble Quran 2:256)


"If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum,

GRANT IT TO HIM,

so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then

ESCORT HIM TO WHERE HE CAN BE SECURE

that is because they are men without knowledge."

( Al-Qur'an 9:6 )]]]]]

Surely you can't be that ignorant to your own religion. Because Muslim scholars understand that Mohammed's book is in such a mess, they have to understand it as a progressive revelation (even though that progression only lasted 23 years, which obviously indicates not divine revelation, but the changing whims of the author). Earlier more peaceful verses in the Quran from Mohammed's Mecca days, ARE ABROGATED by the later violent suras of Mohammed's Medina days. The Arabic term is "naskh".
Even Mohammed knew what a mess he made of his foolish religion

Quran 2:106 None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?

Here's a more honest version from Asad

2:106 (Asad) Any message which, We annul or consign to oblivion We replace with a better or a similar one. Dost thou not know that God has the power to will anything?

Do you see what you have done? You have taken the bible and REVERSED the progressive revelation of the 1600 years over which God revealed Himself to His people through ALL of His prophets and witnesses, to demonize God.

At the same time you wrongly REVERSED the progressive revelation of Mohammed's 23 year 7th century record. THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT MUSLIM SCHOLARS DO and what Mohammed indicated you do!

That's why Mohammed's final message winds up being

Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Mohammed comically even wishing his phony god "Allah"s curse on Christians and Jews!
Can you see how transparent your foolishness is Dazed? You got the books BACKWARDS and BACKWARDS. The EXACT OPPOSITE of the way God's people, and Mohammed's followers scholars, understand our respective books.

That's why it's no mystery that Muslims THAT GET ISLAM have been responsible for over 14,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks since 9-11.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
The same reason that GOOD MUSLIMS raped, pillaged and plundered all the way up to France and Austria during the Islamic First Jihad. They were simply following the mold of their sex crazed, pillaging, plundering, murdering, thief prophet.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=52.0

Indeed by the time they got to France, they were so laiden with the property they had stolen from others, that it impeded their escape from the Battle of Poitiers and the hand of Charles "Martel".
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/mathematical_precision_of_prophecy.htm#daniel_1335_days

I will include this as a post under the abrogation thread as you provided yet another great example of the hopelessness embodied in Mohammed's religion.

http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=116.msg3648#msg3648