Author Topic: Allah, Ar-Rahman or Satan?  (Read 2921 times)

resistingrexmundi

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Allah, Ar-Rahman or Satan?
« on: November 19, 2009, 02:10:05 PM »
Allah, Ar-Rahman, by whatever name is just as impotent. The beauty of the prophets of the Bible is that when God sent them out to declare a message He performed miracles to validate their claims.

A great example of this is with the Prophet Elisha. God gave Elisha the ability to know where the Syrian army would be when they lied in wait for the Israelites. Through Elisha's warnings the Israelites were able to navigate around their enemy every time.

To deal with this issue the Syrian king sent troops to Elisha's hometown of Dothan to deal with him. Elisha's servant awoke to find that they were surrounded. Elisha prayed that God would reveal the reality of the situation to his servant and immediately the servant was aware of the angelic army that stood ready to defend the city.

The story progresses to show the Syrian army being blinded and led to Samaria where God restored their sight. From their Elisha had the Israelites spare their lives and hold a banquet for them. The experience was so humiliating for the Assyrians that they did not attack Israel for a long time.

With stories like this it isn't hard to imagine why someone who believed himself a prophet, or his companions, to also believe God would protect him. It also isn't difficult to see why others would expect miracles from a so-called prophet of God. Then the logical questions that follow are, "Why did Allah not protect Muhammad or his companions?" and "Why did Allah not perform miracles for Muhammad?"



Ishaq:141/Tabari VI:104 "The first to recite the Qur'an aloud in Mecca after the apostle was Abdallah bin Mas'ud. One day the companions of the Prophet were assembled together and remarked, 'The Quraysh have never heard this Qur'an recited aloud to them. Who will make them listen to it?'"

That is odd. If they had never heard it before what was Muhammad doing all this time?


"Abdallah bin Mas'ud said, 'I will.' They said, 'We fear what they will do to you. What we want is a man who has a clan who will protect him against them if they seek to harm him.' He replied, 'Let me do it. Allah will protect me.'"

Again, this would seem a logical position to take if one believed himself to be doing God's will.

Ishaq:141 "The next day Ibn Mas'ud went to the Ka'aba in the late morning when the Quraysh were gathered in groups. He turned toward them as he recited:" Qur'an 55:1 "Ar-Rahman bestowed the Qur'an. He created man. He has taught man eloquent speech (and intelligence). The sun and moon are made punctual, following courses, they revolve to a computation. Ar-Rahman created the herbs (or stars) and the trees all of which prostrate themselves."

Ar-Rahman bestowed the Qur'an. Remember that it is important.


Qur'an 55:19 "He has set the two seas in motion that flow side by side with a barrier between them that they cannot cross. How many favors of your lord will you both deny?"

Odd. I was under the impression God created seven seas that do in fact cross.

Qur'an 55:46 "For him who lives in terror of his Lord are two Gardens containing delights: shade, two fountains flowing, fruits in pairs. Reclining on carpets lined with silk brocade, fruits hanging low. In them virginal females with averted glances (desiring none but you), undeflowered by men or jinn. Is the reward of goodness aught but goodness?"

Why should we live in terror of an all loving God? The answer is that the Islamic God is full of hate.

Ishaq:141/Tabari VI:104 "The Meccans took notice of Mas'ud. 'What on earth is this son of a slave's mother saying.' Then they said, 'He is reciting some of what Muhammad has prayed.'They rose up and began to hit him in the face.He continued to recite as much as Allah willed that he should, and went back to his companions with the marks of their blows on his face. They said, 'This is what we feared would happen to you.' but he replied, 'The enemies of God were never more despicable in my sight than they are now. If you wish, I will do the same thing to them tomorrow.' They replied, 'No, you have done enough.'"

This may seem harsh but you must remember that at this point Muhammad had become quite wearisome for those who just wished to live in peace. They wished it so badly they were willing to give Muhammad everything he wanted to just be at peace. As you will see later. The bigger point here is that Allah, or Ar-Rahman did not protect this fellow.


Tabari VI:103 "Umar bin al-Khattab was a staunch and mighty warrior. He accepted Islam, as had Hamzah before him. The Messenger's Companions began to feel stronger." Ishaq:155 "Umar became a Muslim, he being a strong, stubborn man whose protégés none dare attack. The prophet's companions were so fortified by him and Hamza that they got the upper hand on the Quraysh. 'We could not pray at the Ka'aba until Umar became a Muslim, and then he fought the Quraysh until we could pray there.'"

If ,Allah or Ar-Rahman or whoever their god is, is so powerful why did they need Umar and Hamza to protect them?


Ishaq:156 "Umar said, 'I am making my way to Muhammad, the apostate who has split up the Quraysh and made a mockery of our traditions, to kill him.' 'Your sister, Fatima, has become a Muslim so you had better go and deal with her first.' Umar heard her reciting Khabbab as he came near the house. He said, 'What is this balderdash.' 'You have heard nothing.' she lied. 'By Allah, I have.' Umar said, striking his sister in the face and wounding her. When he saw the blood, he felt sorry and asked to hear what Fatima was reciting. 'You are unclean in your polytheism and only the clean may listen to it.'"

What is interesting is this is but one of MANY times these Pagan arabs invoke the name Allah. So if their was any doubt that Allah was a pre-Islamic pagan deity this confirms it as fact.


Moving on to the meat of the matter. This next part shows the very nature and character of the people Muhammad was dealing with. Contrary to Islamic belief that pagan arabs were uncultured, vile human beings this hadith shines a light on them that can't be understated. All these people wanted from Muhammad was proof of his prophethood and basic needs for all of their people.


Ishaq:134 "'Muhammad if you don't accept our offer then ask your Lord to give us the land and water we lack, for we are shut in by these mountains, we have no river, and none live a harder life than we do."

They gave Muhammad two choices. Either live in peace with them or validate his claim with a miracle that would aleviate their miserable existence.


"If you speak the truth, resurrect Qusayy for us for he was a true shaikh, so that we may ask him whether what you say is accurate."

Qusayy was the one resposible for the major pillars that would be included in Islam by Muhammad.


"If you do this we will believe you and know that God has sent you as an apostle as you claim.'"

"Well then at least ask your god to send an angel to confirm your depictions of paradise and give you the mansions and gold you obviously crave. If not that, then send us the Day of Doom you threaten us with, for we will not believe you until you perform a miracle."

Further proof noone ever saw "Gabriel" give Muhammad so much as a handshake. Let alone a revelation.


"Why doesn't your god help you? Didn't he know that we were going to present you with these opportunities to prove yourself? Listen, Muhammad; we know the truth.

These are the same questions being raised today by people who don't follow Muhammad's insane religion. Questions muslims work hard not to answer.


Information has reached us that you are taught by this fellow in Yemen called al-Rahman. By Allah, we will never believe in Ar-Rahman.'"

Ah-ha. And their you have it folks. Muhammad's god, while he lived in Mecca, was Ar-Rahman. Ar-Rahman was a pagan moon deity that Muhammad had learned of from the hannifs. Ar-Rahman wasn't the only thing Muhammad "borrowed" from the haniffs. He also stole some of their poetry to use as his "revelations".


"'Alright then, our conscience is clear.' When they said this the Prophet got up and left."

They dealt with Muhammad civily and respectfully. What more could have been asked of them?


"Abu Jahl met the Apostle and said, 'By Allah, Muhammad, you will either stop cursing our gods or we will curse the god you serve.' So the Qur'an verse was revealed, 'Do not insult those to whom they pray lest they curse God wrongfully through lack of knowledge.' [Qur'an 6:108] I have been told that the Apostle then refrained from cursing their gods, and began to call them to Allah

This is the part where Muhammad finally accepted their pleas to live in peace. He accepted their gods and they accepted his. It also should be pointed out that once again this pagan is invoking Allah's name. This was but one aspect of the deal, but by far the most damning one to Islam.


Tabari VI:108/Ishaq:165 "The Messenger saw his tribe turn on him. He was pained to see them shunning the message he had brought from Allah. So he longed for something that would reconcile his tribe to him. With his love for his tribe and his anxiety over this it would have delighted him if the obstacle which had made his task so difficult could be removed."

The truth is that Muhammad had been offered wealth, women and power in return for his cooperation. These were the three things he built his whole religion around. So naturally he wanted to pounce on this tempting morsel.


"So Muhammad debated with himself and fervently desired such an outcome. Then Allah revealed: 'By the Star when it sets, your comrade does not err, nor is he deceived; nor does he speak out of his own desire."

As stated above he did speak out of his own desire and by his own admission he was decieved. As you will read below satan decieved him and so this makes Allah out a liar.


And when he came to the words: 'Have you thought about Al-Lat, Al-Uzza and Manat.' Satan, when he was meditating upon it and desiring to bring reconciliation, cast on his tongue, because of his inner longings and what he desired, the words: 'These are exalted high-flying cranes (goddesses). Verily their intercession is accepted with approval."

This is one of the most reviled hadiths in the Islamic world. Because it shows that Muhammad could not distinguish between satan's voice and God's. It also shows that Muhammad was just as much a pagan as the rest of his tribe. I have even seen muslims reject all of the hadith because of this story. The problem is that without the hadith the koran is practically useless. The hadith contain all the practices and context that make Islam what it is. I hope this has helped illuminate the devious nature of Islam for you.

God bless
Doth that man love his Lord who would be willing to see Jesus wearing a crown of thorns, while for himself he craves a chaplet of laurel? Shall Jesus ascend to his throne by the cross, and do we expect to be carried there on the shoulders of applauding crowds? Charles H. Spurgeon

SalahDinThe2nD

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Re: Allah, Ar-Rahman or Satan?
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2009, 09:47:05 AM »
Look to your bible :


1) Capital Punishment Crimes:

 

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

    Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death.  Such evil must be purged from Israel.  (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

 

Kill Witches

    You should not let a sorceress live.  (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

 

Kill Homosexuals
    "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."  (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

 

Kill Fortunetellers

    A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death.  (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

 

Death for Hitting Dad

    Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death.  (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

 

Death for Cursing Parents

    1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness.  (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

    2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death.  They are guilty of a capital offense.  (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

 

Death for Adultery

    If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death.  (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

 

Death for Fornication

    A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death.  (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

 

Death to Followers of Other Religions

    Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed.  (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

 

Kill Nonbelievers

    They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.  (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

 

Kill False Prophets

    If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord."  When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through.  (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

 

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

    Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.  "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."  (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

 

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

    But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house.  Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst.  (Deuteronomy  22:20-21 NAB)

 

Kill Followers of Other Religions.

    1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.  Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you.  You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery.  And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.  (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

 

    2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden.  When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death.  (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

 
Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

He begetteth not, nor is He begotten

And there is none like unto Him

resistingrexmundi

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Re: Allah, Ar-Rahman or Satan?
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2009, 10:04:20 AM »
Again you quote from the OLD TESTAMENT. Laws and ordinances put in place to keep the people of Israel a holy people. This is not a divine mandate from God to impose these laws on the whole world. These were the laws for the JEWS. Furthermore we have the fulfillment of the law in Jesus.

The verses in the koran were left open ended allowing muslims to justify imposing their laws on others that did not agree with them. If you guys wish to live under the yoke of sin that permeates the koran that is your business. I just want you to keep it to your own countries and let that disease fester their.

As I have said before. Only a child when caught doing wrong points his finger at another and justifies his wrong by saying, "Well they did it too."

Besides your post, like most of your other ones, do not address the issue raised in the topic.

Why did Allah not protect muslims as he is said to do? Why could Muhammad not perform miracles as ALL the other prophets could? Why did Muhammad say his god's name was Ar-Rahman in the first part of his ministry and then later change it to Allah? Why could Muhammad not distinguish between satan's voice and God's?

Answer those first before you start spouting off again.
Doth that man love his Lord who would be willing to see Jesus wearing a crown of thorns, while for himself he craves a chaplet of laurel? Shall Jesus ascend to his throne by the cross, and do we expect to be carried there on the shoulders of applauding crowds? Charles H. Spurgeon

SalahDinThe2nD

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Re: Allah, Ar-Rahman or Satan?
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2009, 09:29:54 AM »
Quote
Well they did it too."
interseting how you explained things on your on as the paul did . first you must not speak of what you have alreay in your bible to other people excpet if it been removed .

Quote
Again you quote from the OLD TESTAMENT. Laws and ordinances put in place to keep the people of Israel a holy people. This is not a divine mandate from God to impose these laws on the whole world. These were the laws for the JEWS. Furthermore we have the fulfillment of the law in Jesus.

So you are saying it made by humans !!!!!!! jews messaih isnot a god but human and he didn't came to be killed and murdered for the sins of ther world .


the only reason why christian said that isa(BPUH) was  killed for sins because it was insult that he was kill like joke on the cross , i understand how do early christian ( True christian not pagan ) felt toward that but 325 ad they couldn't except it so  they said that he was kill for thier sins .
Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

He begetteth not, nor is He begotten

And there is none like unto Him

resistingrexmundi

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Re: Allah, Ar-Rahman or Satan?
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2009, 10:16:10 AM »
Quote
So you are saying it made by humans !!!!!!! jews messaih isnot a god but human and he didn't came to be killed and murdered for the sins of ther world

No and if you had carefully read what I posted you would have realized that. What I said was that every action recorded in the Bible is not a divine mandate. Like for instance when David sent one of his subjects to a death trap so that he could have his wife. This was not an order from God. BUT it did happen. These are things we are meant to draw lessons from no necassarily emulate.

Quote
interseting how you explained things on your on as the paul did . first you must not speak of what you have alreay in your bible to other people excpet if it been removed .

Read the rest of what you cropped.

As I have said before. Only a child when caught doing wrong points his finger at another and justifies his wrong by saying, "Well they did it too."

I am saying you have a child like intellect for using this logic. This response has nothing to do with the Bible.

Quote
the only reason why christian said that isa(BPUH) was  killed for sins because it was insult that he was kill like joke on the cross , i understand how do early christian ( True christian not pagan ) felt toward that but 325 ad they couldn't except it so  they said that he was kill for thier sins .
Why did Allah not protect muslims as he is said to do? Why could Muhammad not perform miracles as ALL the other prophets could? Why did Muhammad say his god's name was Ar-Rahman in the first part of his ministry and then later change it to Allah? Why could Muhammad not distinguish between satan's voice and God's?


The reason people say Jesus is God is because that is the way he revealed Himself. The council of Nicea did not decide that. You should stop cribbing notes from fictional books like the DaVinci code and try a history book. It is more enlightening.

Now do not post in this thread again unless you have something to add to the topic of the thread. You could start by answering these questions.

Why did Allah not protect muslims as he is said to do? Why could Muhammad not perform miracles as ALL the other prophets could? Why did Muhammad say his god's name was Ar-Rahman in the first part of his ministry and then later change it to Allah? Why could Muhammad not distinguish between satan's voice and God's?

Doth that man love his Lord who would be willing to see Jesus wearing a crown of thorns, while for himself he craves a chaplet of laurel? Shall Jesus ascend to his throne by the cross, and do we expect to be carried there on the shoulders of applauding crowds? Charles H. Spurgeon