Conversation between PeteWaldo and believergod3

[Pete]

It is requested that this thread be reserved to Pete and believer only. If you have a question for either as regards the subjects covered in this thread please post it as a "new topic" in a new thread, but please be civil and do not heckle for an answer.

The following was copy and pasted from PMs between PeteWaldo and believergod3.
It begins with believergod3 quoting Pete.

Pete Said:

Jesus is A PART of God. Just like His Spirit is. These are two ways that God chose to manifest Himself to us. He also manifest Himself as a burning bush in the Old Testament. He also manifest Himself directly to Abraham and many others. What you are saying is that even if God wanted to, He doesn't have to power to send a part of Himself, to be a sacrifice, to save us from our sins. Even though you know that Jesus was uniquely created. watch?v=GZvFvObWF7I Does God have the power to do that?

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believergod3 said:

Ex 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
dear that's not meaning that god is manifest Himself( that's just a sign from him to Moses)
god manifest Himself in every thing in life to everybody not just for prophets.

if you believe that god don't like anyone or any thing in this life ,because he who create you ,me,Jesus,Mohamed,Abraham and everything ,and he couldn't indivisible that's because he not a material like any material,you can't see him or touching him or smell him ,he don't have any adjective like what we know ,in our life ,his adjective is more greater than all that's because( he is god he don't like anything we ever know it before) he wasn't have any human adjective and he won't.
(he don't befit to his greater to have)because he how create all humans.
he is not marriage,not feel pain,not eating ,not sleeping (he is god)he is god alone,is you mind refuse this facts?if you accept it so how could you think that god have a son!!!!

God can do all something , but with retained a great position type , without prejudice to something of great value , would apologize me for what I will say ? without shame down to the ground and insulted and crucified , and other so you know , Ibrahim don't see god.
in bible:
Ge 17:9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

Ge 18:33 And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.
is god have a legs like a human to walk ??? we tell th is don't like anyone .
anyway it even don't say clearly that Abraham see him !!!
(the words of god couldn't be a conclusion it must be clear)
i want to ask dear if you see god .... oh .. see my god !!!than you will tell i just talking with god?

no i think then you will be mad ,so if Abraham see him he will tell i just talk with him !!! please thinking
god talk with all behind insulator,by angel of the LORD jeprial ,
the only one how talk with god directly was Moses.

in Quran
When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his
Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself)
to me, that I may look upon thee." God said: "By no means
canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it
abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord
manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And
Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he
said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am
the first to believe."
Surah 7 (AL-ARAF) Verse 143


in Bible
Ex 3:4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
Ex 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

do you think that Moses must be how controlled the situation now? god appearing to him but Moses don't won't or afraid to look upon ?please thinking about it,is it logically?? no if god want to appearing to someone then he will made him qualified for for this.


in Quran:
Behold! Abraham said: "My Lord! Show me how Thou givest
life to the dead." He said: "Dost thou not then believe?
" He said: "Yea! but to satisfy My own undertaking." He said:
"Take four birds; Tame them to turn to thee; put a portion of
them on every hill and call to them: They will come to thee (Flying)
with speed. Then know that God is Exalted in Power, Wise."
Surah 2 (AL-BAQARA) Verse 260


finally we must ask ourself ,why god don't appear to us or manifest Himself as a human being???
the answering is...
to be stay the greater ever one to us ,in our hearts, our minds, our eyes and our self,
we are worshiping the god by our spirit, not by eyes and that's more powerful ,

so what happened when Christians make a photo for god (Jesus) as a man ???
they make him very cheap,some people make a comedy films for him,
( like this)
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-vSg7LLOHpw
and others painting a bad and gay portrait for him
http://gayspirituality.typepad.com/blog/2007/12/sex-and-spirit.html
and more and more.........isn't this insult for god?
are you agree with this?
no? you are how make this happened when you say that Jesus is a god or Jesus is A PART of God.
all this happened because you are make him ranking as human being in some ways,
and you are divest him from his greatness (when you saying he has a son)and he possible marriage and beget.
but Muslims know that god(Allah) haven't ever like any human being, and he will be a greatness in our hearts .

god saying about him self in Quoran:


Surah 112 (AL-IKHLAS) Verse 4
Say: He is God, the One and Only;
God, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
And there is none like unto Him.
is this logically? because he is how create all the world ??!!!
think about all what i say to you ,i know really how much difficult to you to leaving your religion which you are grow up with it,but if you discovering the truth then why you didn't follow it?! god bless you.

[believergod3]

i know that Jesus was uniquely created,and believe that mary was a great and uniquely women too,and all Muslims know that and believe it,
in Quran
Surah 3 (AL-IMRAN) Verse 42
Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! God hath chosen thee and purified thee- chosen thee above the women of all nations.


Surah 3 (AL-IMRAN) Verse 45
Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to God;

but all this don't let us consider him a god,he was prophet from Allah and he was a great man and his mother was a best women god was create ,do you know what Muslims believe about Jesus too?
we are believe in the end of the life that Jesus how will send from allah to pray with as (not Mohamed)we are respect Jesus in Islam more than you ,because we don't injustice him by saying that he is son of god ,but we say he was a great prophet and uniquely man'
we are respect and love Mohamed but we didn't ever call him god ,that's because god is only god.
and do you know too what the Quran say too about Jesus ??


Surah 5 (AL-MAEDA) Verse 110
Then will God say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'
yes we believe that Jesus do all this ,but with leave of god.

you don't tell this about him in your bible.
but with all this miracles he stay prophet of god,god give him all
miracles to proof to people that how send from god.

we are respect and honor Jesus more than you ,because we don't make a photo for him and let the foolish play by him,we are the first people will defend him if someone cursing him or mary ,we are really love them,
but we don't call them gods.
because the god is only one god.

[Pete]

The following was copy and pasted from PMs between PeteWaldo and believergod3. It begins with believergod3 quoting Pete.

Pete Said:

Jesus is A PART of God. Just like His Spirit is. These are two ways that God chose to manifest Himself to us. He also manifest Himself as a burning bush in the Old Testament. He also manifest Himself directly to Abraham and many others. What you are saying is that even if God wanted to, He doesn't have to power to send a part of Himself, to be a sacrifice, to save us from our sins. Even though you know that Jesus was uniquely created. watch?v=GZvFvObWF7I Does God have the power to do that?

----------------------------------------------------------------
believergod3 said:

Ex 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
dear that's not meaning that god is manifest Himself( that's just a sign from him to Moses)
god manifest Himself in every thing in life to everybody not just for prophets.

Let's start with the Greek word that is translated as "manifest" in the KJV. From Strong's definitions:
Strong's
  was manifest
New Testament Greek Definition:
5319 phaneroo {fan-er-o'-o}
from 5318; TDNT - 9:3,1244; v
AV - make manifest 19, appear 12, manifest 9, show 3, be manifest 2, show (one's) self 2, manifestly declare 1, manifest forth 1; 49
1) to make manifest or visible or known what has been hidden or unknown, to manifest, whether by words, or deeds, or in any other way
1a) make actual and visible, realised
1b) to make known by teaching
1c) to become manifest, be made known
1d) of a person
1d1) expose to view, make manifest, to show one's self, appear
1e) to become known, to be plainly recognised, thoroughly understood
1e1) who and what one is
For Synonyms see entry 5812
http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm

A bush is just a bush and a tree is just a tree.
If God hadn't made known to you that these were created by Him through the written word, how would you know that He created them?
You would see them as an atheist does. Simply as a bush and tree.

Don't you agree?

So can we separate the instances where God ACTUALLY revealed Himself, from the others?
That is, can we make a distinction between the average bush, and the burning bush, for example?
That which is being exposed that would otherwise be hidden?

How would we ever have known that God exists, if He had not manifest, or shown Himself, to us?

[Pete]

if you believe that god don't like anyone or any thing in this life ,because he who create you ,me,Jesus,Mohamed,Abraham and everything ,and he couldn't indivisible that's because he not a material like any material,you can't see him or touching him or smell him ,he don't have any adjective like what we know ,in our life ,his adjective is more greater than all that's because( he is god he don't like anything we ever know it before) he wasn't have any human adjective and he won't.
(he don't befit to his greater to have)because he how create all humans.
he is not marriage,not feel pain,not eating ,not sleeping (he is god)he is god alone,is you mind refuse this facts?if you accept it so how could you think that god have a son!!!!

You are trying to understand and explain the very nature of God Himself, as if you can figure Him out with your mind. Even the Quran says you can't know the ways of God, doesn't it?

The bible says: Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable [are] his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

So we can't guess about the nature of God with our heads. We especially cannot limit what He can and can't do, the way that you do.
That's also the mistake of Islamic sophists like Deedat. It would be like saying that only someone smart enough to figure out God could enter the kingdom of God.

That's also how Christianity came to have so many cults, denominations, and Roman paganism sneaking in. Trusting in the minds and traditions of men, rather than the Word of God.

Mar 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Here is what the bible says: Luke 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

So all of the Islamic sophism and calculation actually takes one further away from the kingdom of God.

The only way we can understand God is by how He chose to reveal Himself to us, by simply reading and trusting in His Word.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/#gospel_of_john

But nobody can understand His Word if their effort is put into MISunderstanding:
1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUc_9pVUiI4


Now your Quran says that God doesn't have a Son. Indeed shirk is the most important fundamental of Islam. THE OPPOSITE OF CHRISTIANITY AND THE NEW TESTAMENT.
Indeed Mohammed demonizes Christians for believing in THE Son of God.
But the entirety of the New Testament is about Jesus, birth, ministry, death and resurrection. There are over a hundred verses that declare Jesus to be THE Son of God, listed here: http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=56.msg148#msg148

So 6 centuries after the bible was closed, Mohammed came along and rejected all of the prophets and apostles of the New Testament, and denied that Jesus died on the Cross, even while admitting to the historical event of the Cross.

In other words, you are putting your trust in the 23 year record of the recitations of a single 6th century illiterate, and rejecting all of the prophets of the bible that walked with Jesus and told us about Him.

You can see that Islam IS THE OPPOSITE of what all of the prophets and apostles of the bible reveal about Jesus.
Can you see how that looks from where I stand?
Particularly in light of the textual history of the Quran burnings, and even requiring a doctrine of abrogation to even sort it out what was left.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=116.0


You and I were indoctrinated into, and continue to indoctrinate ourselves into, Islam and Christianity, as revealed through our two books. Mohammed and the Quran stand alone, and apart from God's Holy Word.

Based on the above, which do you suppose is more likely to be correct? All of the prophets and apostles of the bible or the single come-lately prophet of the Quran that taught THE DIRECT OPPOSITE?
It should be painfully obvious that one can't have it both ways. These differences ARE NOT RELATIVE. They are polar opposites.

[believergod3]

god  manifest himself to us by his prophets ,he give them what's his period need to believe him,all The prophets come miracles superstar, an indication of the sincerity of their words, they are by God, and god is God exists.

 The Miracles of the Prophets of their time as required, for example:

 Moses (PBUH) sent in times when magic and Alcabzh, and sorcerers Mullah ropes and sticks mercury placed in the sun move those wires and sticks move mercury within them, saying to people: Look how we created the ropes and sticks lives and the lives of mobile adj.

 So Moses came  with real magic, but with the fact not fantasy, so if he stick to his hand, became alive great swallow line, wizards, and then stick as it was due, without increasing the magnitude of something ..   
 So what security wizards felt it was not magic.

 The Jesus (PBUH), was in a time when much of medicine, doctors and professional, somewhat surprisingly, came Jesus unspeakable including medicine, it is discharged blind and healing Brs and revive the dead.

 Any doctor estimated at these things, whatever they reached Highness in medicine?

 Therefore, the security of the people of the art of medicine and the dexterity of whom Christ, and said: that he does outside the scope of medicine, which is special in God Almighty, who sent him.

Islam and the Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him and handed god) sent in times stronger when the rhetoric, and Oratory, so that the expression and tribes, who were holding the market, to match rhetoric and literature, poetry and Oratory, a market (Okaz) and others.

 Came the Prophet MOHAMED (Peace be upon him and handed god) WITH great Koran, which is above the people talk, the highest level of the greatest Rhetoricians, and then someone, saying: (Bring suora like it).

 But they turn and were unable, and confessed that he not talk like humans, and thus proved their argument and that the come from god (Allah)

all this was miracles was from allah to his prophets ,to proof for people that se is exists,Jesus was like all prophets ,he was reach message from allah to the people, and he did not say that he is a god ,he was a great messenger from god,all this not enough to people to know that god is God exists?

[Pete]

...all this not enough to people to know that god is God exists?

It is. We agree. Just a simple bush could not tell us that God exists, if He hadn't otherwise made Himself manifest to us. Through prophets, miracles, and even speaking directly from Heaven to people throughout scripture and unto today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUc_9pVUiI4

[believergod3]

dear , I do not try to explain the nature of God , on the contrary, I say that any different from something we knew before , is the logic that says this , see around you , whether you to all those who created this world , that resembles something human beings in any? Can Why create mosquito ?  God is different from all something , not like something , Well, if not satisfied by my words about God ,You explained to me How do you see God in your head? ( You waited for this )
What is your  problem with Muhammad? Mohammed did not come by anything from  his haid , everything he has said  is inspired from God , and what is the problem that he was illiterate ?  Are all the Apostles were graduates of universities? illiterate word you paste it
because the Quran is the miracle  The need to be very eloquently ,and his,
his illiterate was a good proofing for his trueness,after he come to us the the miracle of Quran

this by what all the greatest professors say about him.

Thomas Carlyle
Whenever I read the Koran I felt that my soul being shaken inside my body


Koran is the book say (faith)

 
Goethe
Koran did not undergo any replacement or distortion, and when the mandates will take you defibrillator admiration and love, and after penetrating study in the spirit of the legislation when you can not only magnify this book upper and holy.




Ernest Renan
The law of the Koran will prevail the world of their compatibility and harmony with reason and wisdom.

· ... I understand ... ... We have realized ...  ? . What humanity needs is a divine law entitled the right and wrong are lost.




 ToUotolstoy
 No messages in the history book characters remained unaltered only fully quoted by the Koran Mohammed.



 American Michael Hart

 Book the Koran books, and I think this also believe every Muslim.



 Goethe
 Astronomer heard (James jeans) Muslim world (Inayatullah bright) recite Koranic verse (but fear of God cult scholars) screaming, saying: strange and amazing! ! It was revealed by the study continued after fifty years! ?   From your child by Muhammad? 
Is this verse in the Koran fact exist?!  If so, I see that the book inspired by the Koran from God.



James jeans
 As promised conservation, saying the messenger of Allah (God, Ismat people) exchange Prophet guard, and one can not deny himself, if this were a source other than the Koran sky to Muhammad Ali retained custody!



Mark Bartelmi Heller
There is no doubt that the Koran from God, no doubt prove a message Mohammed.



Dr. Aernberg professor at the University of Oslo
I find no difficulty in accepting the Koran the word of God, the descriptions of the fetus in the Koran can not be built on scientific knowledge of the seventh century, the only reasonable conclusion is that these descriptions might suggest to Mohammed by God.


 Professor Yoshiodi Ozawa - Director of the Observatory Tokyo

. The greatest event in my life is that I examined the lives of the Messenger of Allah Muhammad thoroughly studied, and I realized what the greatness of the immortality.


 The French poet Lamartine

. Any man realized the greatness of humanity as recognized Muhammad, and any man hit the perfect grades such as the hit, has demolished the false prophet beliefs, which is a medium-Khaliq and creature.

 Lamar
. Mohammad Nabi real sense of the word, yet we can not deny that Muhammad is the leader guide to the path of escape.

 Swiss d, a theologian. Hans KONG


. Examined in history on this ideal of rights, and I found him in the Arab Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.


 German poet Goethe


· . Addressing the poet Goethe, Professor of the great spiritual poet Hafiz Shirazi says: "(It maintained that Ghana is stillness you ... I am an immigrant races human shattered, I plead with all of them to take us in the way of migration to the immigrant Azam Mohammad bin Abdullah).


. The legislation in the West minus for the Islamic teachings, and we have all our Europe have not yet reached the conclusion reached by an Mohammed, and will not make it one.


 Goethe
 Goethe when he reached the age of seventy, it was announced publicly that he intended to celebrate the humble those holy night, which revealed the Quran to the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.

 Goethe
. I am one of them to the Prophet Muhammad chosen by God to serve one another messages on his hands, but that is also the last of prophets.


To Uotolstoy
 But Mohamed Shihab had lighted the world, so Fadlallah two categories of cattle.



 Thomas Carlyle
 I read the life of the Prophet of Islam good times and times, but did not find where the creatures as it should be, how much is hoped that Islam is the way the world.
 We have examined Muhammad as a man astonished, Ryan away from quarreling with Christ, but must be called the saviour of humanity, and Europe in the current era began Tahq doctrine of unification, and perhaps gone beyond that recognizes the ability of this doctrine to solve their problems, in this spirit that we must understand prophecy .



 George Bernadasho
It is all a mind to recognize that a prophet and messenger from heaven to Earth.


 Karl Marx
 This Prophet opened his era of science and enlightenment, knowledge, the freedom to record the sayings and deeds special scientific manner, and that these teachings are inspired by it had to erase what was accumulated from previous messages from the switch and modification.


 Karl Marx
 The greatest greats Muhammad world, and religion, which was completed by religions.

[believergod3]

good Pete' so we are agreed that god don't need to let us see him to conviction  us that he is existing,and about this video what you post link of it,i don't know what i tell you???!!!do you think is it GOOD,powerfully proof ,that Jesus is god because one muslim be a Christian?


ok if you please see this link
Yusuf Estes  is not a normal man like how you sent me his link Noooo , he was Former and Priests Christian Preacher,he is a man how understanding the
Christianity very well .
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=E6K0627FiCk&feature=related


and here is the other one (Jewish become Muslim too)
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gFwFf0bVK2Y
This is not the only , but also he designed  website , to inviting for Islam.
http://www.jews-for-allah.org/
dear pete ,believe me Islam is the real and last religion from allah ,that's not meaning bible and Torah was not from allah,no it was from god too, but all religion come to correct what's come before it,
but Muslims believe in all religion and all prophets and respect them all.
as god recommended us in Quran:
 Surah 2 (AL-BAQARA) Verse 285
The Apostle believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in God, His angels, His books, and His apostles. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His apostles." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys."

when Jesus  come Jews refuse him,and when Mohamed come Christian refuse him too,but Islam the last religion,and Mohamed the last prophets,GOD DON'T WANT TO LEAD us ON ONE STEEP TO ALL WHAT HE WANT,BECAUSE THE world WAS sunken in dark,AND IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT  TO ANY PROPHET change ALL THIS habits BY ONE STEEP,try to understand the real Islam without any hate or racism,and i am  sure that you will find it the religion how accept it all minds , hears and soul too .
God bless you my friend.

[Pete]

(disappeared then restored manually from database)

dear , I do not try to explain the nature of God , on the contrary, I say that any different from something we knew before , is the logic that says this , see around you , whether you to all those who created this world , that resembles something human beings in any? Can Why create mosquito ? God is different from all something , not like something , Well, if not satisfied by my words about God ,You explained to me How do you see God in your head? ( You waited for this )

Then you agree that since nothing is impossible for God, that if He wanted to, He COULD send a part of Himself to earth, that could be manifest in the flesh, in the person of Jesus Christ.
I know He can because the bible tells me that is just what He did.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.  2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4& In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name [was] John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all [men] through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but [was sent] to bear witness of that Light. 9 [That] was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

What is your problem with Muhammad?

Mohammed is the false prophet. His life, and book are the DIRECT OPPOSITE of what God revealed to us through His Holy Word.

Mohammed did not come by anything from his haid , everything he has said is inspired from God ,....

Even he admitted that part of it was inspired by Satan. He just didn't understand the extent, which was complete.

.... and what is the problem that he was illiterate ?

He surrounded himself with a couple of literate people which is likely where the Jewish fables and such came in: http://www.beholdthebeast.com/islam_and_fables.htm

Are all the Apostles were graduates of universities? illiterate word you paste it because the Quran is the miracle

The only miracle is that so many people have been so deceived, for so long, by the 23 year record of the verbal recitations of a single person that came along, 6 centuries after the 1600 year record of the revelation of God through his prophets and legions of witnesses was complete.
A single person that was the very embodiment of the opposite of Jesus in word and deed.

The need to be very eloquently ,and his, his illiterate was a good proofing for his trueness,after he come to us the the miracle of Quran

this by what all the greatest professors say about him.

Thomas Carlyle
Whenever I read the Koran I felt that my soul being shaken inside my body

Koran is the book say (faith)

Goethe
Koran did not undergo any replacement or distortion, and when the mandates will take you defibrillator admiration and love, and after penetrating study in the spirit of the legislation when you can not only magnify this book upper and holy.

Ernest Renan
The law of the Koran will prevail the world of their compatibility and harmony with reason and wisdom.

· ... I understand ... ... We have realized ... ? . What humanity needs is a divine law entitled the right and wrong are lost.

ToUotolstoy
 No messages in the history book characters remained unaltered only fully quoted by the Koran Mohammed.

 American Michael Hart
 Book the Koran books, and I think this also believe every Muslim.

Goethe
 Astronomer heard (James jeans) Muslim world (Inayatullah bright) recite Koranic verse (but fear of God cult scholars) screaming, saying: strange and amazing! ! It was revealed by the study continued after fifty years! ?  From your child by Muhammad?

Is this verse in the Koran fact exist?! If so, I see that the book inspired by the Koran from God.

James jeans
 As promised conservation, saying the messenger of Allah (God, Ismat people) exchange Prophet guard, and one can not deny himself, if this were a source other than the Koran sky to Muhammad Ali retained custody!

Mark Bartelmi Heller
There is no doubt that the Koran from God, no doubt prove a message Mohammed.

Dr. Aernberg professor at the University of Oslo
I find no difficulty in accepting the Koran the word of God, the descriptions of the fetus in the Koran can not be built on scientific knowledge of the seventh century, the only reasonable conclusion is that these descriptions might suggest to Mohammed by God.

Professor Yoshiodi Ozawa - Director of the Observatory Tokyo
. The greatest event in my life is that I examined the lives of the Messenger of Allah Muhammad thoroughly studied, and I realized what the greatness of the immortality.

The French poet Lamartine
. Any man realized the greatness of humanity as recognized Muhammad, and any man hit the perfect grades such as the hit, has demolished the false prophet beliefs, which is a medium-Khaliq and creature.

Lamar
. Mohammad Nabi real sense of the word, yet we can not deny that Muhammad is the leader guide to the path of escape.

Swiss d, a theologian. Hans KONG
. Examined in history on this ideal of rights, and I found him in the Arab Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.

German poet Goethe

· . Addressing the poet Goethe, Professor of the great spiritual poet Hafiz Shirazi says: (It maintained that Ghana is stillness you ... I am an immigrant races human shattered, I plead with all of them to take us in the way of migration to the immigrant Azam Mohammad bin Abdullah).

The legislation in the West minus for the Islamic teachings, and we have all our Europe have not yet reached the conclusion reached by an Mohammed, and will not make it one.

Goethe
Goethe when he reached the age of seventy, it was announced publicly that he intended to celebrate the humble those holy night, which revealed the Quran to the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.

Goethe
 I am one of them to the Prophet Muhammad chosen by God to serve one another messages on his hands, but that is also the last of prophets.

To Uotolstoy
 But Mohamed Shihab had lighted the world, so Fadlallah two categories of cattle.

Thomas Carlyle
 I read the life of the Prophet of Islam good times and times, but did not find where the creatures as it should be, how much is hoped that Islam is the way the world.
 We have examined Muhammad as a man astonished, Ryan away from quarreling with Christ, but must be called the saviour of humanity, and Europe in the current era began Tahq doctrine of unification, and perhaps gone beyond that recognizes the ability of this doctrine to solve their problems, in this spirit that we must understand prophecy .

 George Bernadasho
It is all a mind to recognize that a prophet and messenger from heaven to Earth.

Karl Marx
This Prophet opened his era of science and enlightenment, knowledge, the freedom to record the sayings and deeds special scientific manner, and that these teachings are inspired by it had to erase what was accumulated from previous messages from the switch and modification.

Karl Marx
The greatest greats Muhammad world, and religion, which was completed by religions.

That is a silly exercise. Even more telling by quoting Marx. The Soviet Union clearly demonstrated Marx intelligence.
Do you even realize that you are quoting the words of atheists to promote Mohammedanism?
Go on YouTube and you can find people pouring accolades on Hitler too. In fact no shortage of Muslims do.

Here is a far more accurate, and historically FULFILLED observation if you want to measure in the words of men:

Sir Winston Churchill expounded in 1899:
“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live…The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities…but the influence of the religion paralyzes the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa…and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.” - by Sir Winston Churchill - The River War, Vol. II, pp. 248-50, London; Longman, Green & Co., 1899

And we see that over the last 100 years, the secularization of Europe has prepared the way for it's imminent fall to the Mohammedans. Canada is the biggest secular target in the western hemisphere.
   

[Pete]

good Pete' so we are agreed that god don't need to let us see him to conviction  us that he is existing,and about this video what you post link of it,i don't know what i tell you???!!!do you think is it GOOD,powerfully proof ,that Jesus is god because one muslim be a Christian?

You took it out of context. I posted that as an example of God speaking directly to someone in the world today. He certainly isn't alone. Over 6 million Muslims convert to Christianity every year in Africa alone. Over 40% of them do it as a result of seeing Jesus in a dream, vision, or being directly spoken to by Him: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdVnILalpeo

ok if you please see this link
Yusuf Estes  is not a normal man like how you sent me his link Noooo , he was Former and Priests Christian Preacher,he is a man how understanding the
Christianity very well .
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=E6K0627FiCk&feature=related

But I couldn't comment on a video of his because he has no interest in truth whatsoever. Just another Islamic sophist like Deedat.
The important thing to understand is that anyone who claims to be a Christian converted to Islam, was never a Christian to begin with. Lots of folks think they become Christian simply because a priest sprinkled water on their head when they were infants. Adolf Hitler claimed to be a Christian but, of course, he was driven by satan, as was the Mufti of Jerusalem that joined hands with Hitler in genocide of Jews.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZHWhsc7wvg

and here is the other one (Jewish become Muslim too)
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gFwFf0bVK2Y
This is not the only , but also he designed  website , to inviting for Islam.
http://www.jews-for-allah.org/

Here in the U.S. where it's not usually a death sentence to leave Islam, 75% of them leave Islam within a few years.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8EC8-aVlrE

But do you think that big numbers are where we can expect to find truth?

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

dear pete ,believe me Islam is the real and last religion from allah ,....

But in order to believe this one must deny the 1600 year record that God gave us through His Holy Word, and accept the 23 year record of a 6th century individual THAT IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE. Here is what the bible says about it:

2 Thessalonians 2:8-12  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Who do you suppose THE false prophet is? The tooth fairy?

...that's not meaning bible and Torah was not from allah,no it was from god too, but all religion come to correct what's come before it,
but Muslims believe in all religion and all prophets and respect them all.
as god recommended us in Quran:
 Surah 2 (AL-BAQARA) Verse 285
The Apostle believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in God, His angels, His books, and His apostles. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His apostles." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys."

Satan revealed the opposite of God's Word to Mohammed. That's why his book calls for pillage, plunder, rape and imperialistic conquest. The opposite of the God of the bible as we are shown in the new covenant of the New Testament:

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

Over 11,800 deadly Islamic terror attacks around the world, just since 9-11.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Even Mohammed admitted to being inspired by Satan. He just didn't understand the extent.

when Jesus  come Jews refuse him,and when Mohamed come Christian refuse him too,but Islam the last religion,and Mohamed the last prophets,GOD DON'T WANT TO LEAD us ON ONE STEEP TO ALL WHAT HE WANT,BECAUSE THE world WAS sunken in dark,AND IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT  TO ANY PROPHET change ALL THIS habits BY ONE STEEP,try to understand the real Islam without any hate or racism,and i am  sure that you will find it the religion how accept it all minds , hears and soul too .
God bless you my friend.

You believe in the miracles performed by the prophets and apostles, yet believe them all to be liars.
Doesn't that seem odd to you. You deny the Son of God:

Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

1John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Forever is a long time to burn, my friend. Even the Quran tells you that you have to pay hell a visit before going to heaven (unless you blow yourself up in a bus load of Jewish school children of course).
How long do you figure your visit by hell will take?

Your resignation to visiting hell is Satan's trap. Here's why:

Luke 16:23-29 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that [would come] from thence. 27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.


NO COMMUTING. There is a "great gulf fixed". Once you are at hell, you are there forever. Separated from God forever.

[Pete]

Did you even realize that you quoted the words of atheists to promote Mohammedanism?

That's the difficulty we face when we depart from critical thinking and instead, simply turn to collecting things around us that provide us comfort, by supporting our pre-conceived notions, rather than investing in a little critical thought and study.

I'm familiar with the process. I used to do the same when I held futurist eschatology.