So then your answer is that you can find no historical or archaeological record of Mecca ever existing before the Christian era and so you would rather talk about something else.
I SEEK REFUGE FROM SATAN
I BEGIN IN THE NAME OF ALLAH, THE MOST MERCIFUL THE MOST BENEFICENT
I bear witness that there is no God but ALLAH
I bear witness that Muhammad is the messenger of ALLAH
I ask ALLAH to protect us from myself (NAFS/Desires/Motives) and my actions
ALLAH Guides whom HE wills and leaves to go astray whom he wills
Dear Christians (in particular Pete/Peter)
This is how should have entered this discussion forum in the first place, I humbly apologize for my entries you may send them to spam as I spoke from my Hawa (Opinion based on my Nafs).
It is the night of Leilatul Israa wal Mi'raaj (the travel from Masjidul Haraam (MAkkah) to Masjidul Aqsa (In Palestine) and to ALLAH (one of the greatest Miracles that a Prophet ever performed bringing the gift of five times prayer a day) after meeting with Nabi Adam, Nabi EESA and NABI YAHAYA, Nabi Moosa, Nabi Edries, and Nabi EBRAHEEM (alysalaatuwassalaam).
Do you believe in flying carpets too?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1253.0Did you know that Mohammed and his cousins were up to their eyeballs in the 2nd century occult cult of the Sabians? And guess what. The Sabians prayed 5 times a day and performed ablution. Quite a coincidence eigh?
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj_umrah.htm#ablutionDid you know the fabled prophet of the Zoroastrians was supposed to have commuted on a winged camel to the place where his immortal ancestors lived too?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buraq The lecture I attended by a very learned scholar made me realise that I needed to show you my akhlaak (character as a Muslim) and that I needed to engage with you on a different level as the topics you discuss are side issues and in most cases a distraction from the truth.
Do you really expect an Imam to encourage you to seek out the truth any more than Mohammed did?
"
Allah has hated for you three things: ... 3. And asking too many questions (in disputed religious matters)." (Dr. Khan, Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol. 2, #555)
Certainly a far cry from Scripture.
1Th 5:21
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. It is bickering about issues that have no proof.
That is certainly the case regarding Islam. Not even fulfilled prophecy.
While the scriptures that you must reject because you follow Mohammed, are rich with fulfilled prophecy.
I say Makkah existed because we have the accounts from the Hadith and Quran ........
That's the whole point.
The Quran and Hadith were penned in the 7th and 8th century. History isn't something someone sits down and decides to write thousands of years after the fact. All Mohammedan history regarding events prior to the "year of the elephant" (around Mohammed's birthday) is invalid, because that's when Mohammedans
BEGAN to record their history,
History is that which is recorded by people that lived in or near the times that were written about. Like the historians and geographers cited in the original posts of this thread.
......... and you say the Pagans dont mention it, ........
No, I say the historical and archaeological record doesn't mention Mecca, the way the very same record recorded the other genuinely ancient cities throughout Arabia. That record doesn't mention Mecca, because Mecca did not exist.
Where are the artifacts of Mecca, like over one million artifacts just on display, in Jerusalem?
What you are really saying is that you wish Mohammed had done a more thorough job of destroying all prior actual historical record, so that only the fiction that he and his boys created in the 7th and 8th century was left standing.
........ It is a dead-end for both of us.
I'm sorry my friend but it is a dead end for you. The
archaeological evidence continues to confirm the veracity of scripture as a reliable historical record.
