Author Topic: Historicism - Traditional Continuous-Historic View of Jews & Christians  (Read 7623 times)

Peter

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicism_%28Christian_eschatology%29
"Historicism is a method of interpretation in Christian eschatology which attempts to associate biblical prophecies with actual historical events and identify symbolic beings with historical persons or societies. The main texts of interest are apocalyptic literature, such as the Book of Daniel and the Book of Revelation....."

Jews and Christians all hold the traditional approach of historicism to Old Testament prophecy, as evidenced in the vast majority of us recognizing Daniel's four "beasts" as being four successive kingdoms that came to pass over hundreds of years in Daniel's future. So what reason have we been given to expect New Testament prophecy would be fulfilled in a different fashion? We haven't, since the evidence suggests that the church did hold the traditional historicist approach right up until the last two centuries, when the doctrines of preterism and futurism were popularized.

The continuouis-historic view of prophecy is traditional, because it is the view of virtually ALL Christians and Jews for Old Testament prophecy. That is, that prophecy is fulfilled steadily, as the era about which it is written gradually unfolds.   An example is all of our understanding that Daniel's lion, bear, leopard, and forth beast, were successive kingdoms that came to pass over hundreds of years in Daniel's future.

If our studies are to remain consistent then we should expect New Testament prophecy to be fulfilled in the same manner in which we understand Old Testament prophecy was fulfilled. To switch, and become inconsistent in our method, would require a very compelling reason.

This continuous historic view was held by the reformers and much of the church throughout the Christian era in regard to New Testament prophecy.  This is reinforced - indeed was required for - their understanding of the "language" of prophecy of "each day for a year", that was well recognized by so many that we discover when we look to the former age and search their fathers:   
Job 8:8  For enquire, I pray thee, of the former age, and prepare thyself to the search of their fathers:  9  (For we [are but of] yesterday, and know nothing, because our days upon earth [are] a shadow:)
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=558.0

The most stunning observation in regard to the two most popular eschatologies in the 19th-20th century church - futurism and partial-preterism - is that these doctrines necessarily preclude consideration that Mohammed could be THE false prophet mentioned in the book of Revelation! This in spite of Mohammed's 1400 year record of success, with another 1/4 of mankind following Mohammed as I write, following him in a 7th century religion where the single most important fundamental requires denying that God has a Son (shirk). The exact opposite of Christianity. Denying even the secular historical recognition of Jesus' crucifixion on the cross as perhaps the second most important fundamental. The whole subject of the New Testament. It shouldn't come as a surprise then, that those who follow these two eschatologies must each consider the other to be virtually 100% wrong in regard to their understanding of the book of Revelation (after chapter 3) because a 1900 year gulf divides the two views.

While many Christians don't hesitate for a moment to use this day = year language of prophecy for at least 69 of Daniel's 70 weeks, they then don't hesitate to discard this language in regard to other days, weeks, and months problems assigned to us by prophecy, when this language doesn't suit their doctrine.  The application of sound principles of hermeneutics require a consistent approach rather than picking and choosing that which suits our pre-conceived notions, while discarding verses that appear to contradict them.

interpreter

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Re: The Traditional Continuous Historic View
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2010, 04:05:40 PM »
Yes, Mohammed was a false prophet, or an antiChrist, who said Jesus was not the Son of God. And his followers are the 7th head of the beast to conquer Jerusalem, and they trampled the Holy City underfoot for 1260 years as prophesied. Now their time is up, but they want to rule Jerusalem again, and are hell-bent on starting the Battle of Ar Mageddon (which Muslims call the Mother of All Battles). It began on 9/11 when the Euphrates was dry. And they erected the abomination of desolation standing in the Holy Spot exactly when Daniel said they would, 1290 years from the taking away of the daily sacrifice (by Nebuchadnezzar).

Peter

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Re: The Traditional Continuous Historic View
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2010, 04:52:19 PM »
Amen brother and welcome to the Forum! :)
Indeed, 1.5 billion antichrists in Islam alone - 1/4 of mankind. And that number doesn't even include atheists and other antichrists.

Peter

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Re: The Traditional Continuous Historic View
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2012, 05:23:51 AM »
bump

ExMilitary

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Re: Historicism - Traditional Continuous-Historic View of Jews & Christians
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2013, 04:34:00 PM »
This part of the thread begins in the middle of a private message between ExMilitary and PeteWaldo

Quote
When 'accused' of being 'historicist', I did respond with the point that everyone interprets prophecy that way until it conflicts with what they want to believe.  The response to that was to ignore my point and end the conversation.

This portion of the Presbyterian denomination was not at the 'liberal' end of the spectrum, but really focused on the Reformation and people like Calvin, Foxe, Owen, etc... I heard it mentioned many times that they were a 'reformed' church.

I was a little surprised so I binged - john calvin historicist - and the first site was titled (copy and pasted): THE ANTI-PRETERIST HISTORICISM OF
JOHN CALVIN AND THE WESTMINSTER STANDARDS
http://www.historicism.net/readingmaterials/antipret.pdf

Foxe was an amillennial historicist just as we are:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Foxe%27s_apocalyptic_thought#Foxe.27s_amillennialism

If you scroll to the bottom of this page you will also find someone arguing that Owen was historist (doesn't say on what basis).
http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=Owen+historicist&d=4880252257699849&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=rFgnVSeGn0-rSFOKxM3cI0a8zOuTJR-2

To my knowledge the Reformers were, at least by and large, historicist.
The problem comes from folks making an assumption that if someone is amillennial they are automatically preterist. A common red herring I discuss here:
http://www.christianeschatology.com/index.htm#red_herrings

I really dislike having chats like this in PM as they could perhaps benefit a forum read-only participant.


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