What does it mean to be saved?

[yonah33]

There are some words that are not well understood but constantly used and frequently interchanged. I'm referring to saved, called and chosen. For starters maybe some would like to take a shot at Paul's statements concerning saved.

1 Corinthians 9:21-22 "To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law.To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some."

Rom 11:25-26 "I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:"

[amos45]

Shalom yonah33,
Interesting topic that I remember discussing recently.

I particularly like the verses at Rom 11:25-26. This tells me that once the full number of the Gentiles are saved for the Heavenly Kingdom, Yahweh will then return His favours to His chosen people Israel.

amos45

[Peter]

Hi Amos45 and welcome to the forum!

[yonah33]

LOL Amos. And what about everybody else that comes and is baptized into Messiah? Are they not also Israel?  

btw - did you notice what he said about being under law? Not free from God's but under Christ's?

[amos45]

LOL Amos. And what about everybody else that comes and is baptized into Messiah? Are they not also Israel?  

btw - did you notice what he said about "being under law?"

Yes, Paul said that he, "became like one not having law."
This clearly shows that "the Law" was still in effect in Pauls day, because he had to become as one "not having law".....the same for us also, we still have the law today!

[amos45]

Thank's for the welcome Peter.

[Peter]

Thank's for the welcome Peter.

Certainly brother, my pleasure.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.    2  Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.    3  For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.    4  Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.    5  For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.    6  For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

[amos45]

LOL Amos. And what about everybody else that comes and is baptized into Messiah? Are they not also Israel?  

This is a good point. Could it be that those chosen for the upward spiritual call, become Israelites by the acceptance of Messiah? I certainly think so.

Paul confirms this thought several times, but I cannot remember the scriptures.

[resistingrexmundi]

LOL Amos. And what about everybody else that comes and is baptized into Messiah? Are they not also Israel?  

This is a good point. Could it be that those chosen for the upward spiritual call, become Israelites by the acceptance of Messiah? I certainly think so.

Paul confirms this thought several times, but I cannot remember the scriptures.

It has been my contention that while the law is still in effect its' nature and how we relate to it have changed. If you look through the Torah there are multiple instances of God's relationship to His people changing. Over time the way in which we approach Him has evolved according to His guidance. One of the main staples of God's Character is his Justness. In His Justice God would never put someone in a posistion that made it impossible for them to be saved from and exact punishment. And the law served one fundamental purpose other than guidance. It highlighted man's need for redemption by throwing light on his iniquity. When His people were in bondage in Babylon they were unable to completely abide by the law. And yet they still possessed the promises and favor of God. Likewise today the priesthood has changed and all the sacradfices have been concluded in Yeshua. So even though the law of God still exists its' nature is fundamentally changed effecting a change in us inwardly that gives us a the ability to be clothed in righteousness.

[amos45]

LOL Amos. And what about everybody else that comes and is baptized into Messiah? Are they not also Israel?  

This is a good point. Could it be that those chosen for the upward spiritual call, become Israelites by the acceptance of Messiah? I certainly think so.

Paul confirms this thought several times, but I cannot remember the scriptures.

It has been my contention that while the law is still in effect its' nature and how we relate to it have changed. If you look through the Torah there are multiple instances of God's relationship to His people changing. Over time the way in which we approach Him has evolved according to His guidance. One of the main staples of God's Character is his Justness. In His Justice God would never put someone in a posistion that made it impossible for them to be saved from and exact punishment. And the law served one fundamental purpose other than guidance. It highlighted man's need for redemption by throwing light on his iniquity. When His people were in bondage in Babylon they were unable to completely abide by the law. And yet they still possessed the promises and favor of God. Likewise today the priesthood has changed and all the sacradfices have been concluded in Yeshua. So even though the law of God still exists its' nature is fundamentally changed effecting a change in us inwardly that gives us a the ability to be clothed in righteousness.

I most certainly agree with you about these things. It has been my contention that the Torah & complete OT was pointing toward Yashua & His fulfillment of the Law. (As the LC was perfect, it did not need to be abolished, it needed to be fulfilled)
I also believe that this then was the basis on which the "church" or "saints" were to be instructed in the new way for them to worship Yahweh, as established by Yashua during His sojourn on earth. To worship in spirit & truth.
This I believe received fulfillment with the establishment of "The New Covenant" following the last supper of Nisan 14.
This I also believe was ratified by the shed blood of our Redeemer, & with the subsequent outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.

As I have often used the statement that, the "New Covenant, by definition, is an extension of the Law Covenant, a modification of the LC, to achive the purpose that Yahweh desires at this time, during the Gospel Age.

[amos45]

LOL Amos. And what about everybody else that comes and is baptized into Messiah? Are they not also Israel?  

This is a good point. Could it be that those chosen for the upward spiritual call, become Israelites by the acceptance of Messiah? I certainly think so.

Paul confirms this thought several times, but I cannot remember the scriptures.

It has been my contention that while the law is still in effect its' nature and how we relate to it have changed. If you look through the Torah there are multiple instances of God's relationship to His people changing. Over time the way in which we approach Him has evolved according to His guidance. One of the main staples of God's Character is his Justness. In His Justice God would never put someone in a posistion that made it impossible for them to be saved from and exact punishment. And the law served one fundamental purpose other than guidance. It highlighted man's need for redemption by throwing light on his iniquity. When His people were in bondage in Babylon they were unable to completely abide by the law. And yet they still possessed the promises and favor of God. Likewise today the priesthood has changed and all the sacradfices have been concluded in Yeshua. So even though the law of God still exists its' nature is fundamentally changed effecting a change in us inwardly that gives us a the ability to be clothed in righteousness.

I most certainly agree with you about these things. It has been my contention that the Torah & complete OT was pointing toward Yashua & His fulfillment of the Law. (As the LC was perfect, it did not need to be abolished, it needed to be fulfilled)
I also believe that this then was the basis on which the "church" or "saints" were to be instructed in the new way for them to worship Yahweh, as established by Yashua during His sojourn on earth. To worship in spirit & truth.
This I believe received fulfillment with the establishment of "The New Covenant" following the last supper of Nisan 14.
This I also believe was ratified by the shed blood of our Redeemer, & with the subsequent outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.

As I have often used the statement that, the "New Covenant, by definition, is an extension of the Law Covenant, a modification of the LC, to achive the purpose that Yahweh desires at this time, during the Gospel Age.

Re-posting to test the sytem.

[Peter]

Re-posting to test the sytem.

We are AOK amos. Good to go. Good morning.

[Peter]

Shalom yonah33,
Interesting topic that I remember discussing recently.

I particularly like the verses at Rom 11:25-26. This tells me that once the full number of the Gentiles are saved for the Heavenly Kingdom, Yahweh will then return His favours to His chosen people Israel.

amos45

So what would you guess has been the disposition of His chosen people in this period before the "... fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

[amos45]

Shalom Peter, do you mean the true followers, or the Israelites?

[amos45]

I believe the true followers are made up of both Jew & Gentile alike. But the favour to Israel as a nation may not be complete until the full number of the true church has been completed, & Yashua has returned to collect His chosen from ALL nations including Israel.

[amos45]

I must go now, but will continue the conversation as I can.

Amos

[yonah33]

In looking thru and highlighting with control F, the word saved is hardly mentioned. Paul stated that "all Israel will be SAVED." So who does that include, and what about the rest? Is baptism and inclusion in Israel only valid for a few, and millions and maybe billions of others in various denominations who have professed Jesus, no better than unbelievers? I agree that being saved FOR is different than saved FROM. And some scriptures definitely point to the former, but there are many others that point towards the later and include all rather than a few. And the NC is to be made with Israel, not Gentiles. So are all who are baptized in Yasha's name, Israel, whether they realize it or not, or what denomination they might be in? Then we get into the question of called and chosen.  I hope I'm saying this right.

[Peter]

I had composed the following yesterday and it didn't post during the last attack. But I had it saved in my word program with tags and all.

There are some words that are not well understood but constantly used and frequently interchanged. I'm referring to saved, called and chosen. For starters maybe some would like to take a shot at Paul's statements concerning saved.

I'm afraid one word that has been somewhat lost in the church over the last 60 years is "repent". The concept was well understood in the first half of that century and before. It was about that long ago that Billy Graham popularized the "alter call" wherein folks say the "sinners prayer". A new concept. But if we look at some scripture we find that salvation follows repentance. Either covenant.

Eze 18:30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn [yourselves] from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mar 6:12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.

Is that what preachers preach today? Some don't because they are well aware that if they did the numbers (which means income) in their institutions would drop.

Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=repent&t=KJV&sf=5

Mar 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=repentance&t=KJV&sf=5

I'm afraid that all too often when folks have unresolved serial sin issues, rather than facing them head-on and repenting from them, they look for alternative ways to buy their way in. Some think that occupying a seat in church once a week does it, others maybe give more money to the church or the poor to compensate, others maybe pouring over the old covenant law to make a failed effort at keeping it, as if these efforts might substitute for the real obedience they owe Jesus Christ through repentance. I'm talking about sin issues from addiction to pilfering music. I believe that these sin issues separate us from the Spirit, whereas when we walk in the spirit, we don't need to even think about the law because it is pressed in our hearts. When we transgress we know it.

Mat 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

[amos45]

Dear Br Peter, I must agree with your sentiments on this topic. I think it's a fine line between legalistic observance of the Law, & a Spirit filled heart that desires with all it's might to observe by faith, the spirit of the law.

The adversary is always looking at ways to overturn the saints, & will stop at nothing in his attempt to break down our faith in Yahushua & Yahweh. I am so thankfull that I have come back to the Lord/Elohim.

Will post more latter if possible.

Amos

[Peter]

Surely our Muslim friends must wonder why the Messiah's Hebrew name "Yahshua" means "YHWH saves".
Saves who, from what?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1728.0

Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

In old covenant prophecy

Jeremiah 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Fulfilled

1Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

2Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.