If Allah leads astray whom he wills....?

[resistingrexmundi]

Surah 14:4

And We never sent a messenger save with the language of his folk, that he might make (the message) clear for them. Then Allah sendeth whom He will astray, and guideth whom He will. He is the Mighty, the Wise.

It has always perplexed me that Islam has such an aggressive prosylitizing policy given the above verse. If Allah is the only one who determines whether someone will be saved or not why bother prosylitizing to start with? More than one muslim on this forum and other places I've seen has said something to the effect of "...you will become a muslim if you seek truth and Allah wills it..." If my salvation is completely dependent on whether Allah makes it so whether I seek it or not then no muslim should have to prosylitize. Anyone care to explain this baffling phenomenom?

[Mujaheed]

Surah 14:4

And We never sent a messenger save with the language of his folk, that he might make (the message) clear for them. Then Allah sendeth whom He will astray, and guideth whom He will. He is the Mighty, the Wise.

It has always perplexed me that Islam has such an aggressive prosylitizing policy given the above verse. If Allah is the only one who determines whether someone will be saved or not why bother prosylitizing to start with? More than one muslim on this forum and other places I've seen has said something to the effect of "...you will become a muslim if you seek truth and Allah wills it..." If my salvation is completely dependent on whether Allah makes it so whether I seek it or not then no muslim should have to prosylitize. Anyone care to explain this baffling phenomenom?

Muslims are told this as it is in complete harmony with all scripture, God sends his messengers to the Earth to guide mankind to the worship of One GOD THE GOD (THE-AL ielaah GOD) those who accept the prophet, law giver, warner (noah) Messenger and Messiah is saved (guided by ALLAH) Guidance can only come from ALLAH, it only comes from GOD and whomsoever accepted it has accepted GOD and whomever rejects it rejects GOD. I CAN SHOW YOU THE SCRIPTURE I CANNOT MAKE YOU READ IT, UNDERSTAND IT, BELIEVE IT OR FOLLOW IT that is in the hands of GOD that will Guide you to the truth and the light.

We have no authority over each others hearts, we can love but we cannot compel others to love we can merely point out the benefits and necessity.

[resistingrexmundi]

Surah 14:4

And We never sent a messenger save with the language of his folk, that he might make (the message) clear for them. Then Allah sendeth whom He will astray, and guideth whom He will. He is the Mighty, the Wise.

It has always perplexed me that Islam has such an aggressive prosylitizing policy given the above verse. If Allah is the only one who determines whether someone will be saved or not why bother prosylitizing to start with? More than one muslim on this forum and other places I've seen has said something to the effect of "...you will become a muslim if you seek truth and Allah wills it..." If my salvation is completely dependent on whether Allah makes it so whether I seek it or not then no muslim should have to prosylitize. Anyone care to explain this baffling phenomenom?

Muslims are told this as it is in complete harmony with all scripture, God sends his messengers to the Earth to guide mankind to the worship of One GOD THE GOD (THE-AL ielaah GOD) those who accept the prophet, law giver, warner (noah) Messenger and Messiah is saved (guided by ALLAH) Guidance can only come from ALLAH, it only comes from GOD and whomsoever accepted it has accepted GOD and whomever rejects it rejects GOD. I CAN SHOW YOU THE SCRIPTURE I CANNOT MAKE YOU READ IT, UNDERSTAND IT, BELIEVE IT OR FOLLOW IT that is in the hands of GOD that will Guide you to the truth and the light.

We have no authority over each others hearts, we can love but we cannot compel others to love we can merely point out the benefits and necessity.

Yes but you misunderstand me. It is said in Islam that a person's destiny is determined while yet in the womb. If God decides this then why should there be any need for prosylitization. If God has determined one should be saved then can anything prevent that? Conversly if God decides anyone should not be saved can anyone change that? If not then why is any prosylitization needed?

[Mujaheed]

Yes but you misunderstand me. It is said in Islam that a person's destiny is determined while yet in the womb. If God decides this then why should there be any need for prosylitization. If God has determined one should be saved then can anything prevent that? Conversly if God decides anyone should not be saved can anyone change that? If not then why is any prosylitization needed?

Yes it can, while no one has control over the heart of another or his destiny, Muslims share their knowledge and faith with everyone, If I beleive that it is good for me and I swear I love my brother then I have to share the good with him. ACCEPTING OR REJECTING IS DETERMINED BY HIS HEART. THE POWER OF PRAYER CHANGES DESTINY.
ALLAH guides whom he wills means that you must want guidance (only and arrogant person thinks he is guided or that he guide himself. Muslims pray for guidance everyday!

QUESTION:
DID YOU CHOOSE WHO YOU ARE OR DID GOD CHOOSE?
DID ADAM CREATE HIMSELF OR WAS HE DETERMINED BY GOD,
IS GOD IN CONTROL OF HEAVEN AND EARTH and everything in it?

WHO FASHIONS THINGS AND BRING THINGS INTO EXISTENCE?
DID YOU CHOOSE YOUR HEIGHT AND HAIR COLOR AND YOUR PARENTS AND LOCATION AND RELIGION AND THE WAY YOU THINK? WHAT DID YOU HAVE CONTROL OVER IN YOUR MOTHERS WOMB? OR DO YOU BELIEVE IT IS RANDOM SELECTION (LIKE THE EVOLUTIONISTS) Chance?

WHAT DO UNDERSTAND BY DESTINY?

THE ONLY TWO THINGS YOU HAVE CONTROL OVER IS WHAT YOU BELIEVE AND YOUR INTENTIONS and BOTH COMES FROM WITHIN YOUR HEART, EVERYTHING ELSE HAS BEEN PREDETERMINED> GOD GAVE ADAM CHOICE, ABSTAIN FROM THE TREE. GOD GAVE ADAM KNOWLEDGE.
THE INTELLECT AND THE CHOICE, THE BELIEF AND THE INTENT (PRECEDES YOUR ACTIONS). WHEN YOU OPEN YOUR HEART TO GOD AND ACCEPT ALL THE REVEALED SCRIPTURE YOU WILL BE RIGHTLY GUIDED> YOUR DESTINY REMAINS as it is but your final abode will be with GOD

WHEN THE HEART GUIDES ONE TO PRAYER AND A RELATIONSHIP WITH ONES CREATOR (ALLAH) YOU WILL BE AT PEACE WITH THE WILL OF ALLAH (MUSLIM)

YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT, THAT EVERYTHING HAS BEEN PREDESTINED AND COME TO TERMS WITH IT AND UNDERSTAND IT IN RELATION TO REVEALED SCRIPTURE, TO KNOW GOD AND ACCEPT YOUR DESTINY AS A HUMAN BEING WHICH IS TO BE AT PEACE WITH THE WILL OF THE GOD (AL-THE IELAAH GOD)

[resistingrexmundi]

Yes but you misunderstand me. It is said in Islam that a person's destiny is determined while yet in the womb. If God decides this then why should there be any need for prosylitization. If God has determined one should be saved then can anything prevent that? Conversly if God decides anyone should not be saved can anyone change that? If not then why is any prosylitization needed?

Yes it can, while no one has control over the heart of another or his destiny, Muslims share their knowledge and faith with everyone, If I beleive that it is good for me and I swear I love my brother then I have to share the good with him. ACCEPTING OR REJECTING IS DETERMINED BY HIS HEART. THE POWER OF PRAYER CHANGES DESTINY.
ALLAH guides whom he wills means that you must want guidance (only and arrogant person thinks he is guided or that he guide himself. Muslims pray for guidance everyday!

QUESTION:
DID YOU CHOOSE WHO YOU ARE OR DID GOD CHOOSE?
DID ADAM CREATE HIMSELF OR WAS HE DETERMINED BY GOD,
IS GOD IN CONTROL OF HEAVEN AND EARTH and everything in it?

WHO FASHIONS THINGS AND BRING THINGS INTO EXISTENCE?
DID YOU CHOOSE YOUR HEIGHT AND HAIR COLOR AND YOUR PARENTS AND LOCATION AND RELIGION AND THE WAY YOU THINK? WHAT DID YOU HAVE CONTROL OVER IN YOUR MOTHERS WOMB? OR DO YOU BELIEVE IT IS RANDOM SELECTION (LIKE THE EVOLUTIONISTS) Chance?

WHAT DO UNDERSTAND BY DESTINY?

THE ONLY TWO THINGS YOU HAVE CONTROL OVER IS WHAT YOU BELIEVE AND YOUR INTENTIONS and BOTH COMES FROM WITHIN YOUR HEART, EVERYTHING ELSE HAS BEEN PREDETERMINED> GOD GAVE ADAM CHOICE, ABSTAIN FROM THE TREE. GOD GAVE ADAM KNOWLEDGE.
THE INTELLECT AND THE CHOICE, THE BELIEF AND THE INTENT (PRECEDES YOUR ACTIONS). WHEN YOU OPEN YOUR HEART TO GOD AND ACCEPT ALL THE REVEALED SCRIPTURE YOU WILL BE RIGHTLY GUIDED> YOUR DESTINY REMAINS as it is but your final abode will be with GOD

WHEN THE HEART GUIDES ONE TO PRAYER AND A RELATIONSHIP WITH ONES CREATOR (ALLAH) YOU WILL BE AT PEACE WITH THE WILL OF ALLAH (MUSLIM)

YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT, THAT EVERYTHING HAS BEEN PREDESTINED AND COME TO TERMS WITH IT AND UNDERSTAND IT IN RELATION TO REVEALED SCRIPTURE, TO KNOW GOD AND ACCEPT YOUR DESTINY AS A HUMAN BEING WHICH IS TO BE AT PEACE WITH THE WILL OF THE GOD (AL-THE IELAAH GOD)

All of your examples simply make my point. God gave us the gift of reason so that we can decide to follow Him willingly. What kind of love is it if a person is forced to love? But Islam teaches that a persons salvation is determined the moment he/she is concieved so what would be the point in creating creatures for the sole purpose of damnation. If it is in God's purview to save everyone He wishes why not save everyone? The Bible teaches that God gives man an opportunity to accept salvation but does not twist his arm to accept it nor does God make anyone reject it.

Jhn 3:16   For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

whosoever-1) individually

a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything

2) collectively

a) some of all types

PS. Why do you use caps so much? My eyesight is fine.

[Peter]

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

The love of the one true God again revealed, as the EXACT OPPOSITE, of Mohammed's sadistic torturer "Allah".

[Peter]

From the satanic verses thread and Craig Winn
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2274.msg9690#msg9690

The fact that Muhammad admitted to having been inspired by Satan has caused many to say that Islam is Satanic, and not without just cause; the evidence is overwhelming. The symbols used throughout the Islamic scriptures are from the Occult. A snake, the personification of Satan, led Abraham to the Ka'aba and revealed its foundations. A snake is the only creature said to have lived in the Ka'aba. The darkened or crescent moon, another Satanic symbol representing counterfeit light, is the religion's logo. Allah was a moon god. He swore by the moon. His stone was black. The darkness of night was the best time to worship him and recite his message. The Qur'an was endorsed by jinn, demons from Satan’s tribe. Muhammad listened to soothsayers. He believed in magic spells. An occultist saved his father's life; another wanted to lay with him. Even the seal of prophethood on Muhammad’s back was said to look like an apple - the image of Satanic temptation. And Satan played a starring role in the Qur'an, being named ten times more often than Muhammad.

Then there's the Qur'an's depiction of Allah. He spends time in Satan’s realm, tormenting the inmates of hell. He is never shown playing with the virgins in paradise. Allah, like Satan, is sadistic. He leads men astray, shackles them, and drags them into hell, where he's personally involved, using their bodies as fagots for his fires. He turns men on a spit, makes them eat thorns, and pours boiling water on them for what he calls "their entertainment."

Some will protest that the same book and prophet call Allah merciful, and that they claim Satan to be their foe. But that is the greatest proof of all. Satan never identifies himself; he is the master of camouflage. The Qur'anic orders to "crucify unbelievers" and "wipe infidels out to the last," followed by "Allah is merciful and kind," is perfectly transparent. It’s exactly what the Devil would do - appear divine while inspiring devilish behavior. In fact, the behavior in Allah’s heaven would lead men to the Biblical hell. Satan is the master of deceit. Black is white, the lie becomes true, and everything leads away from a relationship with the one true God.

There are but three differences between Satan and Allah. And those differences cause me to believe that Islam wasn't wholly Satanic. Satan is real. He is powerful and brilliant. Allah was imagined. He was impotent and foolish. Much of Islam was Muhammad’s doing. He is to be despised, not pitied. He, like the demonic spirit that inspired him, must be exposed and rebuked.

The Hadith claims that Qur'anic remedy for Muhammad’s Satanic indulgence is in the 53rd surah. Let's see if Team Islam gets itself out of trouble or if it digs itself in deeper. "The Star" is named after Lucifer. Qur'an 53:1 "I call to witness the Star when it dips [a.k.a., the "Morning Star"]. Your Companion (Muhammad) is neither confused, deceived, nor misled. Nor does he speak out of (his own) desire [unless he is tempted with money, sex, and power]. It is a revelation revealed, He was taught (this Qur'an) by the Supreme Intellect (Gabriel [actually Lucifer]), One free from any defect in body or mind: for he (Gabriel) rose and became stable (in stately form), clear to view. While he was in the highest part of the horizon, then he approached and came closer, then he prostrated. He was at a distance of but two bow-lengths or (even) nearer."[/color] The claim that he bowed is telling. Neither Gabriel nor Lucifer would have bowed to any man so Muhammad is adlibbing here.

Since the Hadith says Gabriel was the source of Qur'anic inspiration, Islam has tumbled into the abyss no matter how this verse is interpreted. Bukhari:V1B1N4-5 "Allah’s Apostle used to listen to Gabriel whenever he came, and after his departure he used to recite the Qur'an as Gabriel had recited it." "Gabriel used to meet him every night to teach him the Qur'an." But we have been told that Allah was the "Supreme Intellect," that he was "Most Wise, All Knowing," and that he had no partners. Since Allah’s Gabriel would never claim a superior position to Allah, this cannot be Gabriel. So who might it be?

Here are some clues. The surah is named after Lucifer, and it's presented in conjunction with the Satanic Verses. By way of witness, the "Star" is calling himself the "Supreme Intellect, one free from any defect in body or mind." The only angel who considered himself to be superior to God was Lucifer. For such blasphemy, Lucifer was thrown out of heaven. So now he says that he not only landed on his feet in perfect stately form, he has risen. As clearly as words allow, he has just told us that he has fulfilled Biblical prophecy and transformed himself into an angel of light to deceive a gentile messenger with a new "gospel" and prostration. (You'll find a complete analysis of Isaiah's and Paul's prophecies and their Islamic fulfillment in the "Mein Kampf" chapter.)

The Satanic Verse goes on to say: Qur'an 53:10 "So He did reveal to His slave whatever He revealed. The (Prophet's) heart did not falsify what he perceived he saw. Will you then dispute with him about what he saw? For indeed he saw him [him who] at a second descent. [Oops. A "descent" is a journey down.] Near the Lote Tree beyond which none may pass. Near it is the Garden of Abode (the Seventh Haven). [Therefore, Muhammad’s heaven is down, not up.] When that covered the Lote Tree which did cover it. [Say what?] The sight turned not aside, nor did it go wrong! ["At least I perceived I saw him. Why don't you believe me?"] Indeed he did see of the greater signs of his Lord!" Methinks - no, meknows - he doth protest too much - especially since we are about to enter the realm of the Satanic Verses and pagan gods.

Qur'an 53:19 "Have you then seen or thought upon Al-Lat and Al-Uzza (two idols of the pagan Arabs), and considered another, the third (goddess), Manat (of the pagan deities)?" Manat was an afterthought because she was not part of the Quraysh Bargain.

Now, for Allah’s copy-edits: "What! for you sons, the male sex, and for Him, daughters, the female? Are yours the males and His the females? Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair!" Muhammad just jumped from the Devil's frying pan into the hell fires of sexism and discrimination. He is saying that Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat can't be Allah’s daughters nor goddesses because they are girls. In plain English: "It would be an injustice for men to have sons and gods to have daughters because women are worthless." It’s little wonder that the Islamic politicians and clerics who depend on Islam for their status, power, and wealth threaten to kill anyone willing to expose this nonsense.

Qur'an 53:23 "These are nothing but names which you have invented, you and your fathers, for which Allah has sent down no authority." Yes they are names, names given to them by Muhammad’s forefathers - just like Allah’s name.

Projecting one's flaws onto an opponent is standard political fare: "They follow nothing but conjecture and what they themselves desire! Whereas guidance has come to them from their Lord! Nay, shall man have anything he hankers after, whatever he covets?" It seemed to work for Muhammad. The career move from prophet to profiteer would satiate his every craving. For example, when Muhammad wanted more women, Allah said: Qur'an 33:51 "You may have whomever you desire; there is no blame."

Fortunately, we have ratted him out. This surah is as transparent as it is incriminating. Qur'an 53:26 "And there are many angels in heaven whose intercession does not avail except after Allah has given permission to whom He pleases and chooses. Those who believe not name the angels with female names." This is Qur'anic waffling. Muhammad is trying to please both Meccan and Muslim. He's saying that the female goddesses could be angels, and that Allah might consider allowing them to be intercessors after all.

The next eight verses can be summarized by: "The Meccans know nothing and want everything and Muhammad knows all and wants nothing." Then Qur'an 53:36 "Nay, is he not acquainted with what is in the Pages (of the Books) of Moses - and of Abraham who fulfilled all that?" Muhammad is admitting that the Torah was the source of his "inspiration," but he doesn't know much about "all that."

A dozen verses ramble nowhere with lines like: "It is He who makes you happy and morose," before heading back into the world of pagan astrology and mythological people. Qur'an 53:49 "He is the Lord of Sirius (the Mighty Star the pagan Arabs used to worship). It is He Who destroyed the (powerful) ancient Ad (people) [who never existed], and (the tribe of) Thamud He spared not; And before them, the folk of Noah, for that they were (all) most unjust and rebellious; and He destroyed the Overthrown Cities (of Sodom and Gomorrah). [Allah didn't know their names but the translator did, so he helped god out.] So there covered them that that which did cover (making them ruins unknown)." The writing quality is as impoverished as the message.

The Bible says that the ruins of Sodom and Gomorrah will serve as visual confirmation of Yahweh's judgment and salvation. The Qur'an says that the ruins are unknown. Since archeologists have found Sodom and Gomorrah, their brimstone should serve as a visual confirmation that Allah is a liar. And please don't be troubled by the slur. Now that we know that Allah was modeled after Satan, it's a compliment.

Qur'an 53:56 "This is a Warner, of the Warners of old! The threatened Hour is nigh. None besides Allah can remove it. Do you then wonder at this recital? And will you laugh at it and not weep, wasting your time in amusements? [That's a hoot. With countless wives, sex slaves, and child concubines, Islam’s prophet was the king of frivolity.] So fall you down in prostration to Allah, and serve [me]!"

Since neither the 53rd nor 22nd surah redeemed Muhammad, we are left with the Profitable Prophet Plan being the only viable explanation for Islam. Tabari VI:110 "When Muhammad brought a revelation from Allah canceling what Satan had cast on the tongue of His Prophet, the Quraysh said, 'Muhammad has repented of [actually, reneged on] what he said concerning the position of our gods with Allah. He has altered [the bargain] and brought something else.' Those two phrases which Satan had cast on Muhammad’s tongue were in the mouth of every polytheist. They became even more ill-disposed and more violent in their persecution of those of them who had accepted Islam and followed the Messenger." The pagans had the prophet on the ropes and they knew it. Not only had he lied and broken a promise for personal gain, he had destroyed his credibility and abandoned the central pillar of his "doctrine" - the oneness of a spirit that only spoke to him.

"The Muslims who had left Abyssinia [Ethiopia] upon hearing that the Quraysh had prostrated themselves with the Prophet, now approached. When they neared Mecca, they learned that the rumor of the Meccan people accepting Islam was false. They returned to their families and said, 'You are more dear to us [than Islam, is the implication].' The people reversed their decision...." Considering the distances, and the speed upon which news and people traveled, Muhammad may have gone as long as a year before he bailed out on the Quraysh Bargain and Allah’s little girls. The indulgence cost him most of his converts.

This admission of failure is followed by a second variant of the Satanic Verses. It ends with this admission: "The Messenger said, 'I have fabricated things against Allah and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken.'"

The Quraysh Bargain and Satanic Verses conclude my case against the religion of Islam. As I promised to demonstrate, the doctrine has completely destroyed itself. Yet the rest of the story is both entertaining and foreboding. While these confessions from Muhammad and Allah enable us to close the books on the religious scam, accepting their guilty pleas, a new scam is about to unfold. This one is political, and this one prevailed.