Author Topic: chat with ranam  (Read 6917 times)

Peter

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chat with ranam
« on: December 14, 2010, 03:19:02 PM »
YouTube Muslim sent me this video titling his PM.

"Please watch this video. I am sure you will find it useful"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPm-CJJqDFc

To which I replied

The video was filled with the words of the false prophet Mohammed. How would I find that useful? I'm a follower of Jesus Christ the Messiah. The false prophet Mohammed WAS and taught the EXACT OPPOSITE of Jesus Christ and the Gospel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9Rdej28pP4

Peter

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Re: chat with ranam
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2010, 03:19:42 PM »
To which he replied

Sorry to hear you views. May God have mercy on you. May he give you some common sense. May he bless you with a bit of logic.
I have also read logic. The first thing people like you do is to challenge the personal life of the opponent to shut him up. This approach is totally illogical. Try to challenge the argument in the Quran rationally. But whatever you say or do. You can never challenge the Quran itself. Just try it. Many people who challenged the Quran converted themselves. Are you any better? How hard can it be. Just 500 pages.
One more thing. In case you are not of Jewish origin, you should have no reason whatsoever to follow Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ PBUH was a Jew by birth. He was sent among the Jews. Then how come he was different to the previous Prophets of the Jews? Perhaps he was meant for the Jews only. I am curious to see a document originating from the life of Jesus PBUH that proves that Jesus Christ claimed divinity or that he even made an open invitation to humanity to follow him. Consult a Jew who is an expert in Jewish history. The Jews only misguide people and Christianity is possibly their best trick. (BTW Shia Islam is another such trick).

You said in your message that Muhammad PBUH wrote the Quran. Just suppose he did. Then he must have been the smartest person in entire history to have taken out only correct arguments from the sacred books, to have left out all verses that would eventually be proven wrong and then even add more of his words that make sense even till this day. The bible says that God created the heavens in six days and on the seventh day He "rested". Is this the way you respect the Almighty. Whereas the Quran says that He created the heavens and the earth in six days and then he sat on his throne. So who is more respectful? Your books or the Quran? And how can a person write such a wonderful book without adding the names of those who helped and aided him or even not to mention his personal life in it? And how can you explain 69:45 and 69:46? Is this the work of an ordinary human being? Want to learn a bit about science from a person like me who has been following the discovery channel and similar for the past several years?

And a sincere piece of advice. Islam and Muslims are not such a threat to your establishment at the moment. Muslims firmly believe in God and in all the Messengers. The minds behind movies like Zeitgeist are the real threat. Go concentrate on this challenge. The biggest challenge to Christianity is not from the Muslims at the moment. It comes from within Israel.

Atif

Peter

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Re: chat with ranam
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2010, 03:33:05 PM »
To which I replied in parts

[[[Sorry to hear you views. May God have mercy on you. May he give you some common sense.]]]]]

This from a guy that bows toward the Quraish black stone idol 5 times a day and even squanders his hard earned money to go march around the Quraish's kaaba 7 times, just like the pagan moon, sun, star and jinn-demon worshipers did before Mohammed?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt5cWcaT65A

Peter

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Re: chat with ranam
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2010, 03:34:44 PM »
[[[May he bless you with a bit of logic.]]]]]

This from a guy that believes Mohammed's UNWITNESSED tale of his fanciful ride on a flying donkey-mule from Mecca, to Jerusalem to heaven and back to Mecca by morning?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e_MzCUa1nU

Peter

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Re: chat with ranam
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2010, 03:35:19 PM »
[[[[[I have also read logic. The first thing people like you do is to challenge the personal life of the opponent to shut him up. This approach is totally illogical. ]]]]]]

The first thing someone like me does is recognize that Islam is the EXACT OPPOSITE of the Gospel, since I am a Christian.
Then as the layers of the onion get peeled back, one finds that there is NOT A SHRED of scriptural, historical, or archaeological EVIDENCE that suggests that Mecca ever existed before about the 4th century AD, or it's kaaba before about the 5th century AD, when pagan immigrants from Yemen built it.
Then it all makes sense. The rituals that you practice are nothing more than adopted, and then adapted, pagan Arabian moon, sun, star and jinn-demon worship rituals. Just as some of Mohammed's closest followers recognized them to be.

Narrated 'Asim: I asked Anas bin Malik: "Did you use to dislike to perform Tawaf between Safa and Marwa?" He said, "Yes, as it was of the ceremonies of the days of the Pre-lslamic period of ignorance...." (2.158) (Sahih al-Bukhari 2 Book 26 710)
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyMliwaBFHg

Peter

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Re: chat with ranam
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2010, 04:04:52 PM »
[[[[One more thing. In case you are not of Jewish origin, you should have no reason whatsoever to follow Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ PBUH was a Jew by birth. He was sent among the Jews. Then how come he was different to the previous Prophets of the Jews?]]]]]

Because He was the prophesied Messiah.

[[[[[Perhaps he was meant for the Jews only.]]]]

YHWH/Yeshua isn't about what you wishfully believe He is so you can follow Mohammed. He is about the way He is revealed in the 1600 year record of YHWH to mankind that His people have followed through 2 covenants for 3500 years.

Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

[[[[ I am curious to see a document originating from the life of Jesus PBUH that proves that Jesus Christ claimed divinity .......]]]]]

http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=40.0

[[[[[...... or that he even made an open invitation to humanity to follow him.]]]]]

This is an invitation

Mat 26:28 For this is MY BLOOD of the new testament, which is SHED FOR MANY for the remission of sins.

Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

This is an admonition.

Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: NO MAN cometh unto the Father, but by me

This is a result of disobedience.

1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] HE THAT HATH NOT THE SON OF GOD HATH NOT LIFE.

This is the consequence.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT THE SON SHALL NOT SEE LIFE, BUT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDETH ON HIM.

[[[[[ Consult a Jew who is an expert in Jewish history.]]]]

Are you surprised that you seek out and find comfort in some Jews that have not yet recognized Yeshua as their Messiah?
Of course not. You have to REJECT ALL of the prophets and witnesses of YHWH as revealed in His record to follow Mohammed.

[[[[[ The Jews only misguide people and Christianity is possibly their best trick. (BTW Shia Islam is another such trick).]]]]]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmbvtuW4ZFE

Peter

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Re: chat with ranam
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2010, 04:29:35 PM »
[[[[You said in your message that Muhammad PBUH wrote the Quran.]]]]]

Maybe I'm getting tired. Poor fellow was illiterate. No he RECITED bits and pieces of Arabic and Hebrew fables, though really mangled them, as well as learning from wives, concubines and slaves with Christian and Jewish backgounds, a tri-lingual Jewish secretary, Tubba, and of course Jabr. So often did he get a "revelation" after a long sit down with his friend Jabr, that the Quraish nickname for Jabr became "holy ghost". Mohammed even had to create another "revelation" in a feeble attempt at damage control.

Sura 16.103 We know indeed that they say, "It is a man that teaches him." The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is Arabic, pure and clear.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=452.0

[[[[[ Just suppose he did. Then he must have been the smartest person in entire history to have taken out only correct arguments from the sacred books, .......]]]]

See how foolish? If they were sacred books, then why did they need correcting?

[[[[...... to have left out all verses that would eventually be proven wrong and then even add more of his words that make sense even till this day.]]]]]

About 1/5 of the Quran is completely unintelligible.

[[[[[ The bible says that God created the heavens in six days and on the seventh day He "rested". Is this the way you respect the Almighty. Whereas the Quran says that He created the heavens and the earth in six days and then he sat on his throne. So who is more respectful? Your books or the Quran?]]]]

My friend, is this some sort of a joke? Why don't you rewrite the scriptures and make them even more respectful than Mohammed did?

[[[[[ And how can a person write such a wonderful book .......]]]]

Come on my friend, Mohammed was perhaps the most consummate terrorist in the history of the world.

Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

Tabari VIII:35/Ishaq:464 "The Jews were made to come down, and Allah's Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina (it is still its marketplace today), and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men."

Bukhari:V5B59N459 "I entered the Mosque, saw Abu, sat beside him and asked about sex. Abu Said said, 'We went out with Allah's Apostle and we received female slaves from among the captives. We desired women and we loved to do coitus interruptus.'"

Ishaq:465 "Then the Apostle divided the property, wives, and children of the Qurayza among the Muslims. Allah's Messenger took his fifth of the booty. He made known on that day the extra shares for horses and their riders - giving the horse two shares and the rider one. A Muslim without a horse got one share of the spoil. It was the first booty in which lots were cast."

Tabari VIII:38 "The Prophet selected for himself from among the Jewish women of the Qurayza, Rayhanah bt. Amr. She became his concubine. When he predeceased her, she was still in his possession. When the Messenger of Allah took her as a captive, she showed herself averse to Islam and insisted on Judaism."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sk3fKY9PhY

Peter

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Re: chat with ranam
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2010, 04:30:10 PM »
[[[[......... without adding the names of those who helped and aided him or even not to mention his personal life in it? And how can you explain 69:45 and 69:46? Is this the work of an ordinary human being?]]]]

Of course it is. Mohammed is pretending that his alter-ego "Allah" (formerly the name of the Arabian moon god) is saying that if he is lyin' he is dyin'. Haven't you ever heard a heretic challenge God to strike him dead if he is lying?
If anything this is a sure sign of a liar, who recognizes that he has no credibility, trying to build credibility from nothing.
Not a single person ever heard the voice of Mohammed's "Allah" or Gabriel, give a single "revelation" to him, a so-called "prophet" with no fulfilled prophecy, that never performed a single miracle. A STAND-ALONE 7th century prophet with a STAND-ALONE 7th century religion.

[[[[Want to learn a bit about science from a person like me who has been following the discovery channel and similar for the past several years?]]]]]

What are you going to tell me now? That the sun sets in a pool of murky water?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_4_tbN-b_A

Peter

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Re: chat with ranam
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2010, 04:53:29 PM »
[[[[[And a sincere piece of advice. Islam and Muslims are not such a threat to your establishment at the moment.]]]]]

Islam and Muslims could never be a threat to Christianity. As shown over the last 1400 years, they are only a thread to the flesh, of YHWH's people.

The threat is your eternal torment for following THE false prophet Mohammed.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where THE BEAST and THE FALSE PROPHET [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

[[[[[ Muslims firmly believe in God and in all the Messengers.]]]]

That's false. You must necessarily REJECT ALL of the "messengers" - as revealed in the 1600 year record of YHWH - to follow Mohammed. That's who you believe in.

He who obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah. Sura An-Nisa 4:80

[[[[ The minds behind movies like Zeitgeist are the real threat.]]]]

No the threat is Satan and the path he has you on through his false prophet Mohammed. Filling you with complete conviction as to what to DISbelieve.

Surah 4:157  That THEY SAID (in boast), "WE KILLED CHRIST JESUS the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- BUT THEY KILLED HIM NOT, NOR CRUCIFIED HIM, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, FOR OF A SURETY THEY KILLED HIM NOT:-

While leaving a complete vacuum as to who you are to believe DID die on the cross.
The PERFECT OPPOSITE of the Gospel.

[[[[Go concentrate on this challenge. The biggest challenge to Christianity is not from the Muslims at the moment. It comes from within Israel.]]]]]

Almost everywhere we find murder, mayhem and misery in the world today, we find Islam. With over 16,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks around the world, just since 9-11. Perpetrated by Mohammed true followers, who are doing what they can to behave like ......... Mohammed.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Peter

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Re: chat with ranam
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2010, 04:54:01 PM »
In his next PM he wrote

You just gave the most illogical answer.
OK lets just suppose for a moment that all that you say about early and about the Prophet is true. Still try to dismiss the Quran. Argue a argument on reason and not by attacking the opponent. Got it blockhead?

To which I replied.

[[[[You just gave the most illogical answer.]]]]

Answer to what?
Why don't you quote what you are referring to.
The absence of a history for Mecca? Why don't you investigate it for yourself. You can start at my site here. Lots of links for Google searches to save you the time of typing them.
http://www.historyofmecca.com/

[[[[OK lets just suppose for a moment that all that you say about early and about the Prophet is true. Still try to dismiss the Quran.]]]]

It automatically PROVES the Quran is dissed and dismissed.
Since Mecca didn't exist before the 4th century AD then all the hogwash that Muslims are brainwashed into believing about Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael is necessarily nothing but the pure malarkey that it obviously is. If you disagree, then please bring me the historical and archaeological record that supports the 7th and 8th century fiction that was created by Mohammed's followers.

[[[[ Argue a argument on reason and not by attacking the opponent. Got it blockhead?]]]]

Reason is EXACTLY what I have been appealing for. Why don't you try using some?


My attack on Arabian pagan moon, sun, star and jinn-demon worship rituals?
Do you bow toward the Quraish's black stone idol 5 times a day or not?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FJcq88t608

Peter

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Re: chat with ranam
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2010, 05:34:11 AM »
To which he replied

Sorry I was and still am caught up in a family matter. But glad that I did manage to get you to show me how biased and how dumb you are. For now you made a mistake about the history of Makkah. You went to far. I would have taken your argument seriously if you said that Makkah could not be traced before the birth of Christ, But you had to show your bias. This is just one thing you got wrong. You even got it wrong about the Kaaba. Go get an education. You cannot challenge established facts. Ask your elders. So go back to your seminary and confront me when you learn more. And please change your mentors. Guess what I'm not a preacher like you. If you can't argue with an average Muslim you can imagine your chances against an expert. Sorry to dissonant you now. I will come back to you. And trust me I don't even need any help to confront someone like you. I will Inshallah answer all questions.

To which I replied

[[[[Sorry I was and still am caught up in a family matter. But glad that I did manage to get you to show me how biased and how dumb you are. For now you made a mistake about the history of Makkah. You went to far. I would have taken your argument seriously if you said that Makkah could not be traced before the birth of Christ, But you had to show your bias. This is just one thing you got wrong.]]]]]

Please show me where. I have been begging Muslims for nearly a year now to show me evidence that suggests that Mecca existed before the Christian era. I don't want to be wrong about anything so important.

[[[[[ You even got it wrong about the Kaaba. Go get an education.]]]]

That's how I learned that Mecca did not exist before the Christian era.

[[[[[ You cannot challenge established facts. Ask your elders. So go back to your seminary and confront me when you learn more.]]]]]

Simply saying something doesn't make it so. Please show me the evidence.
But more importantly is the fact that Mohammed's 7th century religion is the EXACT OPPOSITE of Christianity. Mohammed makes you deny the very blood that would save you.

Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

[[[[And please change your mentors. Guess what I'm not a preacher like you. If you can't argue with an average Muslim you can imagine your chances against an expert.]]]]

Please start at the beginning and address it point by point.

[[[[[[ Sorry to dissonant you now. I will come back to you. And trust me I don't even need any help to confront someone like you. I will Inshallah answer all questions.]]]]]

Thank you. I will look forward to it. Particularly of the record of a history of Mecca from before the Christian era.
http://www.historyofmecca.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ8cnOoXBhA

Peter

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Re: chat with ranam
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2010, 05:36:49 AM »
[[[[So go back to your seminary and confront me when you learn more.]]]]]

Sorry, no seminary. I didn't even finish college. I'm just an average guy with an interest in truth, that's been called to help you poor folks overcome THE false prophet Mohammed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLIlBRUzBcs

Peter

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Re: chat with ranam
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2010, 08:06:34 AM »
12-15

[[[[And how can a person write such a wonderful book without adding the names of those who helped and aided him .....]]]]

On review I noticed your above quoted suggestion. The proper term is plagiarism for his neglecting to mention the names of all the players involved.

The fact that Mohammed was illiterate certainly didn't mean he was blind and deaf. He traveled a lot in his first wife's business and also with his uncle as a child, so there was no lack of exposure. Later on he was surrounded by many that knew about Judaism and Christianity including wives and concubines.

"From a number of Islamic books we gather that Mohammed was surrounded by many Christians - even if nominal. One of them was Waraqa ibn Naufal, the cousin of Khadija, Mohammed's wife. One of his wives, Umm Habbibah, was formerly the wife of a Christian, Ubaidu'llah ibn Jahsh. Another wife of Mohammed, Miriam, and her sister, Sirin, were Christian slaves given to Muhammad. Biographer Ibn Ishaq records that Abdu'llah ibn Salam (one of the bestt reciters of the Qur'an) was a seasoned Jewish Rabbi before he became a Muslim and personal friend of Muhammad." (Anatomy of the Quran by G.J.O. Moshay)

But perhaps the most valuable source of Mohammed's rehashed Jewish and Arabic fables and pseudo-Christian suras was a friend of his named Jabr. An ex"Christian" that converted to Islam. Indeed so often did Mohammed have a "revelation" after meeting with his friend Jabr that the local nickname in jest for Jabr became "holy spirit". It would seem that so embarrassed was Mohammed, by the ribbing he was taking, that damage control required yet another sura.

Sura 16.103 We know indeed that they say, "It is a man that teaches him." The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is Arabic, pure and clear.

More here.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=452.0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=324A-S75PTU

Peter

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Re: chat with ranam
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2010, 01:35:18 PM »
[[[[ I would have taken your argument seriously if you said that Makkah could not be traced before the birth of Christ, But you had to show your bias.]]]]]

I just noticed that I may have misread this. Are you saying that there would be a difference whether Mecca didn't exist before the Christian era, or whether it didn't exist before the 4th century AD?

Being settled after Christ would still put Mecca almost a thousand years after Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael. In other words it an impossibility that they ever had anything to do with it.
This, besides the foolish notion of their wandering across 1200 KM of harsh Arabian desert from Hebron and the wilderness of Beersheba on a single skin of water, as well as their having lived many hundreds of years before the first caravan route was ever established along the Red Sea in Arabia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6igSRiZF0eM

Peter

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Re: chat with ranam
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2010, 05:12:00 AM »
You went to far. I would have taken your argument seriously if you said that Makkah could not be traced before the birth of Christ......

I found this to be a stunning admission for a Muslim currently living in Pakistan. I doubt he had thought through the ramifications of his admission.
I hope he responds further after his family matters are taken care of.