Arabs are Decendents of Ishmael (split off "Joke of Century" retitled by Pete)

[SalahDinThe2nD]

2- Mohamed PEACE BE UPON HIM did not invented the name , the name Allah was used long time when Ishamel PEACE BE UPON HIM come to Mecca The Holy site .

Please present the evidence for which you believe that Ishmael, who was never within a thousand kilometers of Mecca, was ever in the place where Mecca was eventually established, and was there about 1500 years before the historical evidence suggests that Mecca was settled.

Histoical prove ? i have something more than prove , we Arabs are thr biggest example for yours , we are desendent of Ishamel . Tell me your prove about him living in Desert of Paran

[Peter]

2- Mohamed PEACE BE UPON HIM did not invented the name , the name Allah was used long time when Ishamel PEACE BE UPON HIM come to Mecca The Holy site .

Please present the evidence for which you believe that Ishmael, who was never within a thousand kilometers of Mecca, was ever in the place where Mecca was eventually established, and was there about 1500 years before the historical evidence suggests that Mecca was settled.

Histoical prove ? i have something more than prove , we Arabs are thr biggest example for yours , we are desendent of Ishamel . Tell me your prove about him living in Desert of Paran

I have been at it 12 hours so I will just begin this one point so you have some material to consider by tomorrow. Let me start by quoting Mohammed.

"Long before Ibn Ishak, Muslims who lived in Mohammed's own time also fabricated genealogies in an attempt to connect Mohammed to the descendants of Ishmael. Mohammed, himself rejected all of those false genealogies, and he put limits regarding the genealogy of his ancestors. Amru bin al-As wrote:

'Mohammed genealogized himself regarding his ancestors until he reached al-Nather bin Kinaneh, then he said 'anyone who claimed otherwise or added further ancestors, has lied.'"
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1214.0

However it wouldn't be anything to boast about anyway since God approved of Abraham throwing out Hagar and Ishmael and had his covenant pass from Abraham to ISAAC.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1210.0

None of the 12 tribes of Ishmael were ever within 1,000 kilometers of Mecca. You see, the first caravan route was never even established along the Red Sea in Saudi Arabia until most of a thousand years after Ishmael lived. They ranged across the northern Sinai and across into northern Arabia by the transJordan border.

Because of the absence of connection of southern and northern Arabia, contrary to popular belief, Mohammed's tribe the Quraish are likely from people who crossed the strait from Ethiopia which would make them hamites, descended from the tribe of Ham.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1216.0

Now why don't you tell me just how you believe Ishmael was able to arrive waaaay down where Mecca was eventually established in the 4th century AD, almost a thousand years before the first caravan traveled there from northern Arabia to southern Arabia.
Then please tell me how Ishmael traveled to Hebron in time to attend his father Abraham's funeral with Isaac.
Most importantly please tell me when the sources of your information were written.

[SalahDinThe2nD]

2- Mohamed PEACE BE UPON HIM did not invented the name , the name Allah was used long time when Ishamel PEACE BE UPON HIM come to Mecca The Holy site .

Please present the evidence for which you believe that Ishmael, who was never within a thousand kilometers of Mecca, was ever in the place where Mecca was eventually established, and was there about 1500 years before the historical evidence suggests that Mecca was settled.

Histoical prove ? i have something more than prove , we Arabs are thr biggest example for yours , we are desendent of Ishamel . Tell me your prove about him living in Desert of Paran

I have been at it 12 hours so I will just begin this one point so you have some material to consider by tomorrow. Let me start by quoting Mohammed.

"Long before Ibn Ishak, Muslims who lived in Mohammed's own time also fabricated genealogies in an attempt to connect Mohammed to the descendants of Ishmael. Mohammed, himself rejected all of those false genealogies, and he put limits regarding the genealogy of his ancestors. Amru bin al-As wrote:

'Mohammed genealogized himself regarding his ancestors until he reached al-Nather bin Kinaneh, then he said 'anyone who claimed otherwise or added further ancestors, has lied.'"
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1214.0

However it wouldn't be anything to boast about anyway since God approved of Abraham throwing out Hagar and Ishmael and had his covenant pass from Abraham to ISAAC.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1210.0

None of the 12 tribes of Ishmael were ever within 1,000 kilometers of Mecca. You see, the first caravan route was never even established along the Red Sea in Saudi Arabia until most of a thousand years after Ishmael lived. They ranged across the northern Sinai and across into northern Arabia by the transJordan border.

Because of the absence of connection of southern and northern Arabia, contrary to popular belief, Mohammed's tribe the Quraish are likely from people who crossed the strait from Ethiopia which would make them hamites, descended from the tribe of Ham.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1216.0

Now why don't you tell me just how you believe Ishmael was able to arrive waaaay down where Mecca was eventually established in the 4th century AD, almost a thousand years before the first caravan traveled there from northern Arabia to southern Arabia.
Then please tell me how Ishmael traveled to Hebron in time to attend his father Abraham's funeral with Isaac.
Most importantly please tell me when the sources of your information were written.

Well I will repley now why waiting ?
 
First Mohamed PEACE BE UPON HIM never said what  you said ,  we muslims are desendent from Ishamal , like it or not here is the tree :

Kinanah ibn ("son of") Khuzaimah ibn Madrakah ibn Ilyas ( Elijah) ibn Madher ibn Nazar ibn Ma'ad ibn Adnan ibn Add ibn Send [5] ibn Napyot [6] ibn Ishmael [7][7][8] ibn Abraham [9][10][11] ibn Azar [12][13][14] (Terah) ibn Nahoor [15] ibn Srooj [16] ibn Ra'o [17] ibn Phaleg [18] ibn Aber [19] ibn Shaleh [20][21][22] ibn Arpheckshad [23] ibn Sam [24] ibn Noah ibn Lamek [25] ibn Motoshaleh ibn Edres (Enoch) ibn Yared ibn Mehlaiel ibn Qenan ibn Anosh ibn Sheeth ibn Adam(wikipedia )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_tree_of_Muhammad

All Historians call  islam Abrahmic religoon and now you the Great peter comes from now where , and say No he is not !!!

Can you prove that jesus  is dendent of David ? did you see who the two gospol who wrote about the subjects all use different father s to say so . Go search for it for youself . Can you prove that Jew are desdendet of Abrahm . The only thing you can give is something said by peopel . If you want go ask jews about they will tell who are we desendet of . No jews have ever said such thing , the look to us as children of the servent woman refereing to Hugar our Great mother may Allah blesss her .  Sleep well For next day

[Peter]

2- Mohamed PEACE BE UPON HIM did not invented the name , the name Allah was used long time when Ishamel PEACE BE UPON HIM come to Mecca The Holy site .

Please present the evidence for which you believe that Ishmael, who was never within a thousand kilometers of Mecca, was ever in the place where Mecca was eventually established, and was there about 1500 years before the historical evidence suggests that Mecca was settled.

Histoical prove ? i have something more than prove , we Arabs are thr biggest example for yours , we are desendent of Ishamel . Tell me your prove about him living in Desert of Paran

I have been at it 12 hours so I will just begin this one point so you have some material to consider by tomorrow. Let me start by quoting Mohammed.

"Long before Ibn Ishak, Muslims who lived in Mohammed's own time also fabricated genealogies in an attempt to connect Mohammed to the descendants of Ishmael. Mohammed, himself rejected all of those false genealogies, and he put limits regarding the genealogy of his ancestors. Amru bin al-As wrote:

'Mohammed genealogized himself regarding his ancestors until he reached al-Nather bin Kinaneh, then he said 'anyone who claimed otherwise or added further ancestors, has lied.'"
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1214.0

However it wouldn't be anything to boast about anyway since God approved of Abraham throwing out Hagar and Ishmael and had his covenant pass from Abraham to ISAAC.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1210.0

None of the 12 tribes of Ishmael were ever within 1,000 kilometers of Mecca. You see, the first caravan route was never even established along the Red Sea in Saudi Arabia until most of a thousand years after Ishmael lived. They ranged across the northern Sinai and across into northern Arabia by the transJordan border.

Because of the absence of connection of southern and northern Arabia, contrary to popular belief, Mohammed's tribe the Quraish are likely from people who crossed the strait from Ethiopia which would make them hamites, descended from the tribe of Ham.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1216.0

Now why don't you tell me just how you believe Ishmael was able to arrive waaaay down where Mecca was eventually established in the 4th century AD, almost a thousand years before the first caravan traveled there from northern Arabia to southern Arabia.
Then please tell me how Ishmael traveled to Hebron in time to attend his father Abraham's funeral with Isaac.
Most importantly please tell me when the sources of your information were written.

Well I will repley now why waiting ?
 
First Mohamed PEACE BE UPON HIM never said what  you said ,....

So then you are calling Amru bin al-As a liar, for calling you a liar, for genealogizing Mohammed back past al-Nather bin Kinaneh.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Amr_ibn_al-%27As

"ʻAmr ibn al-ʻĀs (Arabic: عمرو بن العاص‎) (c. 573 – January 6, 664) was an Arab military commander who is most noted for leading the Muslim conquest of Egypt in 640. A contemporary of Muhammad, and one of the Sahaba ("Companions"), who rose quickly through the Muslim hierarchy following his conversion to Islam in the year 8 AH (629)."

..... we muslims are desendent from Ishamal , like it or not here is the tree :

Kinanah ibn ("son of") Khuzaimah ibn Madrakah ibn Ilyas ( Elijah) ibn Madher ibn Nazar ibn Ma'ad ibn Adnan ibn Add ibn Send [5] ibn Napyot [6] ibn Ishmael [7][7][8] ibn Abraham [9][10][11] ibn Azar [12][13][14] (Terah) ibn Nahoor [15] ibn Srooj [16] ibn Ra'o [17] ibn Phaleg [18] ibn Aber [19] ibn Shaleh [20][21][22] ibn Arpheckshad [23] ibn Sam [24] ibn Noah ibn Lamek [25] ibn Motoshaleh ibn Edres (Enoch) ibn Yared ibn Mehlaiel ibn Qenan ibn Anosh ibn Sheeth ibn Adam(wikipedia )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_tree_of_Muhammad

Well, looks to me like that family tree goes all the way back to Mohammed's grandfather's, father, or around the early 6th century AD.

However I do understand that Muslims have been taught the preposterous fiction of Mohammed's 7th and 8th century "tradition" CREATORS http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1176.0 whose own genealogy makes an Arabian generation 66 years long! And this when even your own prophet was doing a 9 year old.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1214.0

There are 2,670 years between Ishmael and Mohammed, divided by 20 year generations, would have required over 133 Arabic generations between Ishmael and Mohammed. So Ishak not only invented characters of a couple thousand years before, and ascribed 8th century styled Arabic names to them, but he also spanned 2,670 years with only 40 generations.

Please explain to us why you believe there are 66 years in an Arabian generation.

[Peter]

All Historians call  islam Abrahmic religoon .........

Not likely historians, since they know history, but no shortage of folks agree with you because that is simply what they were told too. While Mohammed's religion has nothing to do with Abraham (except through Mohammedan fiction penned in the 7th and 8th centuries AD by Mohammed's followers), I do agree that scripture suggests that Abraham's son Ishmael is the ancestor, of many of those that follow Mohammed's stand-alone 7th century religion. It does have everything to do with the flesh, and borrowed Quraish pagan rituals. Look how Ishmael's followers were prophesied to be. Just the way we see them today.

Gen 16:11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou [art] with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction. 12 And he will be a wild man; his hand [will be] against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

Abraham's wife Sarah thought herself too advanced in age to bear a child so she encouraged Abraham to have a child with her bondwoman (slave) Hagar, that Abraham and Sarah could then raise as their own. This wasn't an unusual thing to do back then to carry a man's name forward.

We can also see that Ishmael was to "dwell in the presence of all his brethren" so unless you are going to move the Holy Land to Mecca, and Isaac in particular, then Ishmael never traveled the 1200 kilometers of unexplored, untraveled, uncharted desert to where Mecca was eventually built about 1500 years later.

[Peter]

........ and now you the Great peter comes from now where , and say No he is not !!!

Ishmael and his subsequent 12 tribes inhabited the upper Sinai and area around the transJordan border. They were eventually absorbed into the northern Arabian tribes and migrated up into the fertile crescent. If your ancestry is from that part of the world, being Jordan, Iran, Iraq, Syria etc. then you likely have more of Ishmael in you than your Muslim brethren that live down in Yemen. It is unlikely that Mohammed was descended from Ishmael since Ishmael lived almost a thousand years before the Spice Route was established and overland travel along the Red Sea in Arabia was possible. Since about a thousand years had passed between then and Mohammed, some of Ishmael's ancestors may have mixed in with the Quraish.
However Saudi officials report that marriage among blood relatives "ranges from 55 to 70 percent in the southern part of Arabia" so back in Mohammed's day it was surely worse. So we can conclude that if there was any Ishmael in him it would have been little and late, since Ishmael was never within a thousand kilometers of where Mecca was eventually settled in the 4th century AD.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1844.msg7612#msg7612

[Peter]

Can you prove that jesus  is dendent of David?

This is a Hebraism. Jesus was manifest in the lineage of David, just like it was prophesied in the Old Testament.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Psa&c=110&t=KJV#1
Confirmed in the New
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=david&t=KJV&page=38
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=david&t=KJV&page=39

did you see who the two gospol who wrote about the subjects all use different father s to say so .

Why don't you start by looking at Old Testament prophecy of the crucifixion of the Messiah that was written about 600 years before the event, and about 400 years before crucifixion was even invented.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1007.0

Go search for it for youself . Can you prove that Jew are desdendet of Abrahm . The only thing you can give is something said by peopel .

The term is WITNESSES!!!!
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is MY BELOVED SON , in whom I am well pleased.
Mar 1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, [saying], Thou art MY BELOVED SON, in whom I am well pleased.
Luk 3:22 ...and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art MY BELOVED SON; in thee I am well pleased.
2Pe 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is MY BELOVED SON, in whom I am well pleased.

Now why don't you tell me how many people attest to WITNESSING Mohammed's ride on his flying donkey-mule, or even WITNESSED the animal itself? You take ONE MAN'S SOLE WORD and ONLY because he said he did.
You believe he's a prophet SOLELY because he declared himself a prophet that has no fulfilled prophecy to his credit.
How many prophets in the Bible had to keep trying to convince people they were prophets by saying they were?

2Cr 13:1 This [is] the third [time] I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

[Peter]

If you want go ask jews about they will tell who are we desendet of . No jews have ever said such thing , the look to us as children of the servent woman refereing to Hugar our Great mother may Allah blesss her .  Sleep well For next day

Thank you for wishing me to sleep well.
I agree that Sarah's Egyptian bondwoman Hagar is the mother of most of Mohammed's middle-eastern followers. The problem for you is that YHWH has no covenant with Ishmael, but rather with Isaac. After Abraham made the mistake of taking his wife Sarah's advice and having a child with her bondwoman, God allowed Sarah to bear their son Isaac, in spite of her advanced age.

Gen 17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, [and] with his seed after him.

Gen 21:8 And the child grew, and was weaned: and Abraham made a great feast the [same] day that Isaac was weaned. 9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking. 10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, [even] with Isaac. 11 And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son. 12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called. 13 And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he [is] thy seed. 14 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave [it] unto Hagar, putting [it] on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba. 15 And the water was spent in the bottle, and she cast the child under one of the shrubs. 16 And she went, and sat her down over against [him] a good way off, as it were a bowshot: for she said, Let me not see the death of the child. And she sat over against [him], and lift up her voice, and wept. 17 And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he [is]. 18 Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thine hand; for I will make him a great nation. 19 And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink.

You see? Abraham threw Ishmael out for mocking out Isaac, along with his mother Hagar, Sarah's Egyptian bondwoman. At the same time God promised to, and did, make a large and numerous nation of Ishmael's offspring as is later confirmed in the Old Testament. The 12 tribes from Ishmael's 12 offspring. Though the Ishmaelites were absorbed and disappeared within other peoples of the area, and mention of them ceased in the Old Testament.

By the time God chose to test Abraham's faith and ask him to sacrifice Isaac it would seem God no longer even recognized Ishmael as a son of Abraham.

Gen 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only [son] Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

[Peter]

2- Mohamed PEACE BE UPON HIM did not invented the name , the name Allah was used long time when Ishamel PEACE BE UPON HIM come to Mecca The Holy site .

Please present the evidence for which you believe that Ishmael, who was never within a thousand kilometers of Mecca, was ever in the place where Mecca was eventually established, and was there about 1500 years before the historical evidence suggests that Mecca was settled.

Histoical prove ? i have something more than prove , we Arabs are thr biggest example for yours , we are desendent of Ishamel . Tell me your prove about him living in Desert of Paran

Now bear in mind that Jews, Christians and Muslims visit Abraham's burial spot near Hebron where he lived.
http://www.bibleplaces.com/hebron.htm
A little history
http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/abraham.html

So. How about you start by you telling me how Hagar and Ishmael wandered 1200 kilometers from Beersheba, to Mecca, on a single skin of water, about 800 years before the first caravan ever made the trip.

As you can see by the map provided earlier, and archaeology in the link above, it makes perfect sense that the Wilderness of Beersheba is right where Bible scholars believe it is, and thus the account in scripture makes perfect geographical sense.

[Peter]

Then after you are done with all those questions why don't you look at the map and tell me how Hagar fetched Ishmael a wife out of Egypt.

Gen 21:21 And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt.

Did Hagar wander back up a thousand kilometers to Egypt, and back to Mecca with Ishmael's wife, 800 years before the first caravans ever made the trip?

[Peter]

Then answer me this. How did Ishmael make it to Hebron in time to join Isaac at their father's burial?

Gen 25:9 And his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, which [is] before Mamre;

How did he do the 1200 kilometers in a couple days, before anybody else ever did? A flying camel?

Now look at the map again and you will see that the Bible paints a perfectly reasonable picture, that is also supported by archaeology and geography.
http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/abraham.html

All you've been fed is lies by Mohammed's 7th century so-called "tradition" creators. Writing thousands of years of history of Mecca without a single reference to any actual historical or archaeological record that preceded the 4th century AD.

More on Mohammed's genealogy.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1174.0

[Peter]

A little more on the seed of Abraham.

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Children of the flesh that pray in vain repetitions.

Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Children of the flesh that prostrate themselves to the Quraish's black stone idol 5 times a day.
Children of the flesh that believe that "paradise" is a chicken and wine serving bordello.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=264.0

[SalahDinThe2nD]

2- Mohamed PEACE BE UPON HIM did not invented the name , the name Allah was used long time when Ishamel PEACE BE UPON HIM come to Mecca The Holy site .

Please present the evidence for which you believe that Ishmael, who was never within a thousand kilometers of Mecca, was ever in the place where Mecca was eventually established, and was there about 1500 years before the historical evidence suggests that Mecca was settled.

Histoical prove ? i have something more than prove , we Arabs are thr biggest example for yours , we are desendent of Ishamel . Tell me your prove about him living in Desert of Paran

I have been at it 12 hours so I will just begin this one point so you have some material to consider by tomorrow. Let me start by quoting Mohammed.

"Long before Ibn Ishak, Muslims who lived in Mohammed's own time also fabricated genealogies in an attempt to connect Mohammed to the descendants of Ishmael. Mohammed, himself rejected all of those false genealogies, and he put limits regarding the genealogy of his ancestors. Amru bin al-As wrote:

'Mohammed genealogized himself regarding his ancestors until he reached al-Nather bin Kinaneh, then he said 'anyone who claimed otherwise or added further ancestors, has lied.'"
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1214.0

However it wouldn't be anything to boast about anyway since God approved of Abraham throwing out Hagar and Ishmael and had his covenant pass from Abraham to ISAAC.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1210.0

None of the 12 tribes of Ishmael were ever within 1,000 kilometers of Mecca. You see, the first caravan route was never even established along the Red Sea in Saudi Arabia until most of a thousand years after Ishmael lived. They ranged across the northern Sinai and across into northern Arabia by the transJordan border.

Because of the absence of connection of southern and northern Arabia, contrary to popular belief, Mohammed's tribe the Quraish are likely from people who crossed the strait from Ethiopia which would make them hamites, descended from the tribe of Ham.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1216.0

Now why don't you tell me just how you believe Ishmael was able to arrive waaaay down where Mecca was eventually established in the 4th century AD, almost a thousand years before the first caravan traveled there from northern Arabia to southern Arabia.
Then please tell me how Ishmael traveled to Hebron in time to attend his father Abraham's funeral with Isaac.
Most importantly please tell me when the sources of your information were written.

Well I will repley now why waiting ?
 
First Mohamed PEACE BE UPON HIM never said what  you said ,....

So then you are calling Amru bin al-As a liar, for calling you a liar, for genealogizing Mohammed back past al-Nather bin Kinaneh.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Amr_ibn_al-%27As

"ʻAmr ibn al-ʻĀs (Arabic: عمرو بن العاص‎) (c. 573 – January 6, 664) was an Arab military commander who is most noted for leading the Muslim conquest of Egypt in 640. A contemporary of Muhammad, and one of the Sahaba ("Companions"), who rose quickly through the Muslim hierarchy following his conversion to Islam in the year 8 AH (629)."

..... we muslims are desendent from Ishamal , like it or not here is the tree :

Kinanah ibn ("son of") Khuzaimah ibn Madrakah ibn Ilyas ( Elijah) ibn Madher ibn Nazar ibn Ma'ad ibn Adnan ibn Add ibn Send [5] ibn Napyot [6] ibn Ishmael [7][7][8] ibn Abraham [9][10][11] ibn Azar [12][13][14] (Terah) ibn Nahoor [15] ibn Srooj [16] ibn Ra'o [17] ibn Phaleg [18] ibn Aber [19] ibn Shaleh [20][21][22] ibn Arpheckshad [23] ibn Sam [24] ibn Noah ibn Lamek [25] ibn Motoshaleh ibn Edres (Enoch) ibn Yared ibn Mehlaiel ibn Qenan ibn Anosh ibn Sheeth ibn Adam(wikipedia )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_tree_of_Muhammad

Well, looks to me like that family tree goes all the way back to Mohammed's grandfather's, father, or around the early 6th century AD.

However I do understand that Muslims have been taught the preposterous fiction of Mohammed's 7th and 8th century "tradition" CREATORS http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1176.0 whose own genealogy makes an Arabian generation 66 years long! And this when even your own prophet was doing a 9 year old.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1214.0

There are 2,670 years between Ishmael and Mohammed, divided by 20 year generations, would have required over 133 Arabic generations between Ishmael and Mohammed. So Ishak not only invented characters of a couple thousand years before, and ascribed 8th century styled Arabic names to them, but he also spanned 2,670 years with only 40 generations.

Please explain to us why you believe there are 66 years in an Arabian generation.

I am not calling him lair , he is a great man , but the thing you are  putting it on his mouth is wrong , the same way you change the word of god . Pagan Worshipers

Do you mean that the tree was written by Moahamed PEACE BE UPON HIM or his Grand  Grandfather ? if you mean so . you are wrong . Arab people memorize their their tree  from young age , So it  was known to us long time before mohamed Peace BE UPON HIM , But before i began responding to you tell where is Ishmaelites  ? Or what we are Arab from telll me ?

About your calucaltion ? "2,670 years between Ishmael and Mohammed" Are you saying the Moso PEACE BE UPON HIM him was before IShmael PEACE BE UPON HIM . Prophet Mosos PEACE BE UPON HIM was 1526 BC - 1406 BC so according to he was before he is older than his grandfather Isaac PEACE BE UPON HIM becasue Isaac came after Ishmael PEACE BE UPON THEM ALL . Can you do the gene test and prove that we are not desendent of Ishmael . Even jews did not say that to Mohamed PEACE BE UPON HIM and now , have you forgot that they look to us like those who are from the Servent woman referening to our belssed Mother Hugur . who is know in paradise . can you prove scientifcally that jews are desdendent of Isaac too can you . If this topic was true , all of the western world was going to be ready to prove it using Gene test  . Neither the so called Pop , did not say so .

[SalahDinThe2nD]

All Historians call  islam Abrahmic religoon .........

Not likely historians, since they know history, but no shortage of folks agree with you because that is simply what they were told too. While Mohammed's religion has nothing to do with Abraham (except through Mohammedan fiction penned in the 7th and 8th centuries AD by Mohammed's followers), I do agree that scripture suggests that Abraham's son Ishmael is the ancestor, of many of those that follow Mohammed's stand-alone 7th century religion. It does have everything to do with the flesh, and borrowed Quraish pagan rituals. Look how Ishmael's followers were prophesied to be. Just the way we see them today.

Gen 16:11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou [art] with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction. 12 And he will be a wild man; his hand [will be] against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

Abraham's wife Sarah thought herself too advanced in age to bear a child so she encouraged Abraham to have a child with her bondwoman (slave) Hagar, that Abraham and Sarah could then raise as their own. This wasn't an unusual thing to do back then to carry a man's name forward.

We can also see that Ishmael was to "dwell in the presence of all his brethren" so unless you are going to move the Holy Land to Mecca, and Isaac in particular, then Ishmael never traveled the 1200 kilometers of unexplored, untraveled, uncharted desert to where Mecca was eventually built about 1500 years later.

Mohamed PEACE BE UPON HIM  Fiction ? Another joke of Saint Peter .  if historian esp. Western historian did not agree about they will never Called Islam an Abrahmic Religon . Go search for Abrahmic and you know . Funny it is like saying Scientist disagree about the existence of  Dinosaurs billions of years ago .

Hagur may Allah bless her and Sarah too . The Story you mentioned ? did said that i disagre about it or you just brought that up . Never , Never , Never...... It is liem you are the one who knows everything prove to me that Ishmael did not Gone to Mecca and Abrahm . What makes you sure did so called  Pual  said it never happened.

[SalahDinThe2nD]

........ and now you the Great peter comes from now where , and say No he is not !!!

Ishmael and his subsequent 12 tribes inhabited the upper Sinai and area around the transJordan border. They were eventually absorbed into the northern Arabian tribes and migrated up into the fertile crescent. If your ancestry is from that part of the world, being Jordan, Iran, Iraq, Syria etc. then you likely have more of Ishmael in you than your Muslim brethren that live down in Yemen. It is unlikely that Mohammed was descended from Ishmael since Ishmael lived almost a thousand years before the Spice Route was established and overland travel along the Red Sea in Arabia was possible. Since about a thousand years had passed between then and Mohammed, some of Ishmael's ancestors may have mixed in with the Quraish.
However Saudi officials report that marriage among blood relatives "ranges from 55 to 70 percent in the southern part of Arabia" so back in Mohammed's day it was surely worse. So we can conclude that if there was any Ishmael in him it would have been little and late, since Ishmael was never within a thousand kilometers of where Mecca was eventually settled in the 4th century AD.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1844.msg7612#msg7612

Yamen arab are different than Mohamed PEACE BE UPON HM . Arabized ? have you heard of it the term used to those who are desendent of Ishmael NOT from Yamen . And Qursih are From the Arabized . No they are not mixed . in the past arab peopel were isolated , before islam . Have not you seen that relative marriage in arab is very common . Yeah your old joke again ? Saint Peter let me tell you something , jews say that they are desndendent of Abrahim througth their Holy books , the same for muslims  it is written in the Holy Quran and the hadith.

[Peter]

Try answering the questions this time. The questions are in bold font in the original posts.
Please visit each link and answer on those posts, at those links, not on this post.

1. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2286.msg9474#msg9474
How many people attested to WITNESSING Mohammed's ride on his flying animal (baraq), or even WITNESSED seeing the animal itself?

2. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2286.msg9476#msg9476
How did Hagar and Ishmael wander 1200 kilometers from Beersheba (near Jerusalem), to Mecca, on a single skin of water, about 800 years before the first caravan ever made the trip?

3. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2286.msg9479#msg9479
How did Hagar wander back up a thousand kilometers to Egypt, and back to Mecca with Ishmael's wife, 800 years before the first caravans ever did?

4. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2286.msg9480#msg9480 How did Ishmael make it 1200 kilometers up to Hebron, from Mecca, in time to join Isaac at their father's burial?

[Peter]

After you are done answering those 4 questions, on those 4 individual posts, please answer this.

What were Abraham's WIFE Sarah and son Isaac (who God made His covenant with) doing the whole time Abraham is supposed to have been wandering the 1200 kilometers to Mecca on a single skin of water, with Sarah's slave Hagar and her son Ishmael.

[SalahDinThe2nD]

Can you prove that jesus  is dendent of David?

This is a Hebraism. Jesus was manifest in the lineage of David, just like it was prophesied in the Old Testament.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Psa&c=110&t=KJV#1
Confirmed in the New
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=david&t=KJV&page=38
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=david&t=KJV&page=39

did you see who the two gospol who wrote about the subjects all use different father s to say so .

Why don't you start by looking at Old Testament prophecy of the crucifixion of the Messiah that was written about 600 years before the event, and about 400 years before crucifixion was even invented.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1007.0

Go search for it for youself . Can you prove that Jew are desdendet of Abrahm . The only thing you can give is something said by peopel .

The term is WITNESSES!!!!
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is MY BELOVED SON , in whom I am well pleased.
Mar 1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, [saying], Thou art MY BELOVED SON, in whom I am well pleased.
Luk 3:22 ...and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art MY BELOVED SON; in thee I am well pleased.
2Pe 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is MY BELOVED SON, in whom I am well pleased.

Now why don't you tell me how many people attest to WITNESSING Mohammed's ride on his flying donkey-mule, or even WITNESSED the animal itself? You take ONE MAN'S SOLE WORD and ONLY because he said he did.
You believe he's a prophet SOLELY because he declared himself a prophet that has no fulfilled prophecy to his credit.
How many prophets in the Bible had to keep trying to convince people they were prophets by saying they were?

2Cr 13:1 This [is] the third [time] I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

Donkey !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! where did you heard such trash  . It was an animel looks like Horse winges . The prophets did , Abrahm , Jesus , Moso ..... PEACE BE UPON THEM ALL  And the Angels and God . Are not they enough . Or you are saying  that Normal peopel are better than prophets. What the moon that been split Many people have seen that From  Qurish .


The old testament does not support what said . You are justing say so . What about Unfulfilled Prophecies in the Bible as you . Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:3-4:said the it was prophecy that jesus will be raised from the DEAD NOT to Heaven . Where was it in the old testament the same for him going to hell , which we know from the bible that God cannot be hell , and if so , it is No longer hell .
hen was fulfilled that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was priced, whom certain of the children of Israel did price; and they gave them for the potter's field as the Lord appointed me" (27:9-10). did you know that Jeremiah did not wrote anything simlilar to that .
Ezekiel, Chapter No 26 said . ‘Nebuchader, he will destroyed Tyre.’ We come to know that Alexander the great   destroyed Tyre  .

[SalahDinThe2nD]

If you want go ask jews about they will tell who are we desendet of . No jews have ever said such thing , the look to us as children of the servent woman refereing to Hugar our Great mother may Allah blesss her .  Sleep well For next day

Thank you for wishing me to sleep well.
I agree that Sarah's Egyptian bondwoman Hagar is the mother of most of Mohammed's middle-eastern followers. The problem for you is that YHWH has no covenant with Ishmael, but rather with Isaac. After Abraham made the mistake of taking his wife Sarah's advice and having a child with her bondwoman, God allowed Sarah to bear their son Isaac, in spite of her advanced age.

Gen 17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, [and] with his seed after him.

Gen 21:8 And the child grew, and was weaned: and Abraham made a great feast the [same] day that Isaac was weaned. 9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking. 10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, [even] with Isaac. 11 And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son. 12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called. 13 And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he [is] thy seed. 14 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave [it] unto Hagar, putting [it] on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba. 15 And the water was spent in the bottle, and she cast the child under one of the shrubs. 16 And she went, and sat her down over against [him] a good way off, as it were a bowshot: for she said, Let me not see the death of the child. And she sat over against [him], and lift up her voice, and wept. 17 And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he [is]. 18 Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thine hand; for I will make him a great nation. 19 And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink.

You see? Abraham threw Ishmael out for mocking out Isaac, along with his mother Hagar, Sarah's Egyptian bondwoman. At the same time God promised to, and did, make a large and numerous nation of Ishmael's offspring as is later confirmed in the Old Testament. The 12 tribes from Ishmael's 12 offspring. Though the Ishmaelites were absorbed and disappeared within other peoples of the area, and mention of them ceased in the Old Testament.

By the time God chose to test Abraham's faith and ask him to sacrifice Isaac it would seem God no longer even recognized Ishmael as a son of Abraham.

Gen 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only [son] Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

Prophets to christian do not make mistakes , and now you see Abrahm PEACE BE UPON HIM did it . As you know the old testament was written by Jews so do not expact to be Accurate .

How many time they the Day of Judgment and it did not simply unfullfilled prophecy .

Igonre My Question about That Ishmael Desendent are Alive or Did ? I asked before i read this repely . Are you saying that God is Lairs who is saying that He will make him a Gread Nation :

And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. But my covenant will I establish with Isaac� - (Genesis 17:20-21).

You see A GREAD NATION  and Blessed so who can be disappread that easily , A blessing from God Shall Not be Broken or God will become human who changes what he says . Not only that , if it is not true according to it will be unfullfilled prophecy

[SalahDinThe2nD]

2- Mohamed PEACE BE UPON HIM did not invented the name , the name Allah was used long time when Ishamel PEACE BE UPON HIM come to Mecca The Holy site .

Please present the evidence for which you believe that Ishmael, who was never within a thousand kilometers of Mecca, was ever in the place where Mecca was eventually established, and was there about 1500 years before the historical evidence suggests that Mecca was settled.

Histoical prove ? i have something more than prove , we Arabs are thr biggest example for yours , we are desendent of Ishamel . Tell me your prove about him living in Desert of Paran

Now bear in mind that Jews, Christians and Muslims visit Abraham's burial spot near Hebron where he lived.
http://www.bibleplaces.com/hebron.htm
A little history
http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/abraham.html

So. How about you start by you telling me how Hagar and Ishmael wandered 1200 kilometers from Beersheba, to Mecca, on a single skin of water, about 800 years before the first caravan ever made the trip.

As you can see by the map provided earlier, and archaeology in the link above, it makes perfect sense that the Wilderness of Beersheba is right where Bible scholars believe it is, and thus the account in scripture makes perfect geographical sense.

 Using Camal accrdoing to the bible or Horses , plus he do not need to pass the water .

A multitude of camels shall cover you, the young camels of Midian and Ephah; all those from Sheba shall come. They shall bring gold and frankincense, and shall bring good news, the praises of the LORD. Isaiah 60:6  Also ((Gen 37:25, 28; 39:1).)

Do not try to draw on maps , according to bible the earth has four corners  which can not be proven  now .


Oh and About the Sacrifice : IN THE NAME OF ALLAH the MOST MERCIFUL

    99. He said: "I will go to my Lord! He will surely guide me
    100. "O my Lord! Grant me a righteous (son)!"
    101. So We gave him the good news of a forbearing son.
    102. Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: "O my son! I have seen in a vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: now see what is thy view!" (The son) said: "O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if Allah so wills, one of the steadfast!"
    103. So when they had both submitted (to Allah), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice),
    104. We called out to him "O Abraham! ...
    105. "Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" - thus indeed do We reward those who do right.

“And when Abraham and Ishmael raised the foundations of the House (praying): Our Lord, accept from us; surely Thou art the Hearing, the Knowing. Our Lord, and make us both submissive to Thee, and raise from our offspring a nation submissive to Thee, and show us our ways of devotion and turn to us mercifully; surely Thou art the Oft-returning to mercy, the Merciful. Our Lord, and raise up in them a Messenger from among them who shall recite to them Thy messages and teach them the Book and the wisdom, and purify them. Surely Thou art the Mighty, the Wise.” (The Holy Quran, 2:127–129)


The  BIBLE :

Genesis 17:24-27: "And Abraham was ninety years old and nine when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin. And Ishmael his son was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin. In the selfsame day was Abraham circumcised, and Ishmael his son. And all the men of his house, born in the house, and bought with money of the stranger, were circumcised with him."

Genesis 21:4-5: "And Abraham circumcised his son Isaac being eight days old, as God had commanded him. And Abraham was an hundred years old, when his son Isaac was born unto him.

Genesis 21:18: "Arise, lift up the lad [Ishmael], and hold him in shine hand, for I will make him a great nation."

[SalahDinThe2nD]

Then answer me this. How did Ishmael make it to Hebron in time to join Isaac at their father's burial?

Gen 25:9 And his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, which [is] before Mamre;

How did he do the 1200 kilometers in a couple days, before anybody else ever did? A flying camel?

Now look at the map again and you will see that the Bible paints a perfectly reasonable picture, that is also supported by archaeology and geography.
http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/abraham.html

All you've been fed is lies by Mohammed's 7th century so-called "tradition" creators. Writing thousands of years of history of Mecca without a single reference to any actual historical or archaeological record that preceded the 4th century AD.

More on Mohammed's genealogy.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1174.0

Flying Camal ? No An Beautiful Angel . The one that your God Rides accordin  to the bibel . Or By Satan who took Christ to up to the mountian or may be becasue God accroding to the bible is able to do anything . So he did help Him Because according to the bible God named him Ishmael and in another verses it was Ibrahim .

You are the one who is fed by lies , look to your dark age , look to the funny thigns that your books has to offer . like Sex,incest, killing the sons of sinner , Following the Joke of Paul The Serpent .

Mohamed PEACE BE UPON HIM enlighted the world , he encorughed to search and discover , but your christianity look to it as infidilty , Your books was add by many peopel , in old time and new times , Your book tell the story the Fake Cross that is taken from the pagan .
 

[SalahDinThe2nD]

Try answering the questions this time. The questions are in bold font in the original posts.
Please visit each link and answer on those posts, at those links, not on this post.

1. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2286.msg9474#msg9474
How many people attested to WITNESSING Mohammed's ride on his flying animal (baraq), or even WITNESSED seeing the animal itself?

2. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2286.msg9476#msg9476
How did Hagar and Ishmael wander 1200 kilometers from Beersheba (near Jerusalem), to Mecca, on a single skin of water, about 800 years before the first caravan ever made the trip?

3. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2286.msg9479#msg9479
How did Hagar wander back up a thousand kilometers to Egypt, and back to Mecca with Ishmael's wife, 800 years before the first caravans ever did?

4. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2286.msg9480#msg9480 How did Ishmael make it 1200 kilometers up to Hebron, from Mecca, in time to join Isaac at their father's burial?

1 - Easily as said before it is not important that how many peopel saw it or not , the Question is realy can you do it , as you when the Moon was split , alot of Qurishians saw it but , The Holy Quran and it is scientific Facts that was discoverd only in modern times , The Holy Quran . CAn you produce the like of it .Also mohamed PEACE BE UPON HIM Cured  peopel in his life , in the name of allah

2,3,4 - I do ont believe in story of the bible that they went to egypt first befroe answering it  believe that Abrahiam took to mecca not Pardn desert :

14 Ibrahim :verses 37 - 39 : In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful

Our Lord! Lo! I have settled some of my posterity in an uncultivable valley near unto Thy holy House, our Lord! that they may establish proper worship; so incline some hearts of men that they may yearn toward them, and provide Thou them with fruits in order that they may be thankful. (37) Our Lord! Lo! Thou knowest that which we hide and that which we proclaim. Nothing in the earth or in the heaven is hidden from Allah. (38) Praise be to Allah Who hath given me, in my old age, Ishmael and Isaac! Lo! my Lord is indeed the Hearer of Prayer. (39)

So i do not need to answer something which i do not believe in , but let is say it is true as posted earlier Using a Camal , when muslims fought the Romans and Crush them they gone to their using hores except if Flying Beautfull took them their after he put them at his back .

A multitude of camels shall cover you, the young camels of Midian and Ephah; all those from Sheba shall come. They shall bring gold and frankincense, and shall bring good news, the praises of the LORD. Isaiah 60:6  Also ((Gen 37:25, 28; 39:1).)

That does not disprove anything . First you start at topic in my name and then you give orders to me about not posting any more , i would like to keep the posts at one place so i am going to answer it hear . The deal was not to start a topic befoer answering your repelys . so i did many times so i will star another topic someday in this week.

Have nice day .

[SalahDinThe2nD]

After you are done answering those 4 questions, on those 4 individual posts, please answer this.

What were Abraham's WIFE Sarah and son Isaac (who God made His covenant with) doing the whole time Abraham is supposed to have been wandering the 1200 kilometers to Mecca on a single skin of water, with Sarah's slave Hagar and her son Ishmael.

Ibrahim PEACE BE UPON HIM gone to mecca after he left his son the prophet Ishmael PEACE BE UPON THEM both and ISAAC too . So he left them there and went back to them . When Ishmael PEACE BE UPON HIM was older he come back and build the Holy house Al kaaba .
As you see if Ishmael PEACE BE UPON HIM was dead or thrown out , what brought him back when he was a Ibrahim was daying according to your changing Bible :

Then Abraham gave up the ghost and died in a good old age, an old man, and full (of years); and was gathered to his people. And his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron� - (Genesis 25:8-9).


So he was with ISAAC PEACE BE UPON THEM and they both buried him in "CAVE" whatever his name it does not matter as long as  he was there .


Also i can ask when God Sleep ( What a  blasphemy  Again the lord) what happen to earth , what happen to people when Jesus PEACE BE UPON HIM was raised to the heaven , what happpen to everyone one earth when God Cries ( Another Blaspemy agains All Mighty Be Praised our lord and Savior ) .

[Peter]

Can you prove that jesus  is dendent of David?

This is a Hebraism. Jesus was manifest in the lineage of David, just like it was prophesied in the Old Testament.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Psa&c=110&t=KJV#1
Confirmed in the New
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=david&t=KJV&page=38
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=david&t=KJV&page=39

did you see who the two gospol who wrote about the subjects all use different father s to say so .

Why don't you start by looking at Old Testament prophecy of the crucifixion of the Messiah that was written about 600 years before the event, and about 400 years before crucifixion was even invented.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1007.0

Go search for it for youself . Can you prove that Jew are desdendet of Abrahm . The only thing you can give is something said by peopel .

The term is WITNESSES!!!!
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is MY BELOVED SON , in whom I am well pleased.
Mar 1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, [saying], Thou art MY BELOVED SON, in whom I am well pleased.
Luk 3:22 ...and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art MY BELOVED SON; in thee I am well pleased.
2Pe 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is MY BELOVED SON, in whom I am well pleased.

Now why don't you tell me how many people attest to WITNESSING Mohammed's ride on his flying donkey-mule, or even WITNESSED the animal itself? You take ONE MAN'S SOLE WORD and ONLY because he said he did.
You believe he's a prophet SOLELY because he declared himself a prophet that has no fulfilled prophecy to his credit.
How many prophets in the Bible had to keep trying to convince people they were prophets by saying they were?

2Cr 13:1 This [is] the third [time] I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

Donkey !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! where did you heard such trash  .

"....larger than a donkey but smaller than a mule...."
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1253.0

It was an animel looks like Horse winges .

Where does Mohammed say it has wings? Mohammed had a habit of any time he was making up a tall tale he left the details very sketchy so that it wouldn't be different the next time he had to repeat his nonsense.

You must think it was like this.



Oh wait, that's the Greeks fable, not Mohammed's fable!

How bout we put your prophet on one! Maybe that photograph proves it! Oh wait, that's a painting!


http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1713.0

We've even got a Baraq in the Whitehouse!

The prophets did , Abrahm , Jesus , Moso ..... PEACE BE UPON THEM ALL  And the Angels and God . Are not they enough . Or you are saying  that Normal peopel are better than prophets.

Now I've seen folks extremely disconnected from reality before, but this takes the cake! Do you believe in Ali Baba's flying carpet too? The author said Ali Baba rode on it so it must be true!!!!

Your blaspheming those in heaven by associating them with a 7th century murdering, prisoner raping, thief, was prophesied of the Islamic beast.

Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, (calling YHWH "Allah") and his tabernacle, (God's people and temple mount) and them that dwell in heaven. (Just as you did here)

WHERE IS THE TESTIMONY OF THOSE PROPHETS AND ANGELS THAT YOU CLAIM SAW MOHAMMED RIDING AROUND ON A FLYING ANIMAL???

WHERE ARE THE WITNESSES??????????

(Please don't quote the whole post and repeat all those pictures. Instead erase everything above the last 2 questions, all the way up to the top of the post - but leave the very top tag in. Thanks)

[Peter]

Then answer me this. How did Ishmael make it to Hebron in time to join Isaac at their father's burial?

Gen 25:9 And his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, which [is] before Mamre;

How did he do the 1200 kilometers in a couple days, before anybody else ever did? A flying camel?

Now look at the map again and you will see that the Bible paints a perfectly reasonable picture, that is also supported by archaeology and geography.
http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/abraham.html

All you've been fed is lies by Mohammed's 7th century so-called "tradition" creators. Writing thousands of years of history of Mecca without a single reference to any actual historical or archaeological record that preceded the 4th century AD.

More on Mohammed's genealogy.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1174.0

Flying Camal ? No An Beautiful Angel .

If you are going to try to say that Ishmael rode on an angel from Mecca to Hebron you are going to have to cite me some sources from witnesses, and not a bunch of hogwash that was written 2,500 years after Ishmael.
Where did you learn that Ishmael rode on an angel?

The one that your God Rides accordin  to the bibel . Or By Satan who took Christ to up to the mountian or may be becasue God accroding to the bible is able to do anything . So he did help Him Because according to the bible God named him Ishmael and in another verses it was Ibrahim .

You are the one who is fed by lies , look to your dark age , look to the funny thigns that your books has to offer . like Sex,incest, killing the sons of sinner , Following the Joke of Paul The Serpent .

Mohamed PEACE BE UPON HIM enlighted the world , he encorughed to search and discover , but your christianity look to it as infidilty , Your books was add by many peopel , in old time and new times , Your book tell the story the Fake Cross that is taken from the pagan .

The Old Testament is THE ONLY RECORD we have of Abraham's times. PERIOD. Yet you choose to REJECT THAT RECORD because a bunch of semi-literate 7th century SW Arabian desert dwellers CREATED PURE FICTION regarding events of 2500 YEARS EARLIER!!!! It's impossible for Tabari, Ishak and the rest of those clowns that followed Mohammed to have known anything about what happened thousands of years before.

Now click on this web search archaeological evidence confirms bible accuracy

The Gospel is the same as it was in the 1st century as it was in mohammed's 7th century when he said

Sura 5:47 Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein.

When Mohammed said that the bible had been translated into every popular language, had been copied tens of thousands of times and had been read all over the know world for centuries. The same Gospel we have today.
So are you saying that Mohammed was stupid for saying that and you are so smart for claiming corruption?

Here's a video by a former atheist that thought about the bible the way you do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxiddSTtKpA

So instead of an answer, you instead turn to blasphemy against YHWH and His Word.
But blaspheming YHWH will never make Mohammed's ridiculous stand-alone 7th century religion any more true, than it will move Mecca even ONE INCH closer to Jerusalem. Now ANSWER THE QUESTION THIS TIME.

How did Ishmael travel 1200 miles to Hebron in time to join Isaac at their father Abraham's burial?