Sickness within the body

[resistingrexmundi]

I have been active in Christian Forums for sometime now and have noticed an alarming trend amongst those that would call themselves our brothers and sisters in Christ. Many core doctrines of the faith are constantly under attack. Whether it be the efficaciousness of Jesus' sacrafice, the exclusivity of the faith or the inerrancy of Scripture. But no other doctrine is under attack than the deity of Jesus and His primacy as the author and perfector of our faith.

This is a debate I have had on numerous occasions and will share some of those instances here in successive posts. For now I would like to cover some of the more common objections from those who deny Jesus' deity but still take his name upon their lips. It never fails that these protesters use a most one dimensional and shallow argument from Scipture to "disprove" the deity of Scripture. I will enumerate the one's I see most often below.

1. God is Spirit. Jesus is flesh. Therefore it follows that Jesus is not God.

Scripture does indeed teach that God is Spirit. Scripture also teaches that Jesus was and is flesh. But this argument is easily dismissed when one takes a look at the entire counsel of God.

Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 

Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 

God's ability to manifest in the flesh is already attested in the OT.

Gen 18:1 ¶ And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; 

Gen 18:2   And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw [them], he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, 

The difference in Jesus' unique manifestation is that He assumed the fullness of humanity allowing Himself to suffer and die as a human does.

Phl 2:5 ¶ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 

Phl 2:6   Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 

Phl 2:7   But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 

Phl 2:8   And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 


2. God has never been seen. Jesus has been seen. Therefore it follows that Jesus is not God.

Again Scripture does teach that God has never been seen. But again this shallow view of Scripture neglects the entire counsel of God. Scripture teaches that man cannot gaze upon God in His unmuted Glory and live. But there are instances where God allowed man to see Him in a limited way.

Gen 32:30   And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. 

Scripture goes on to teach that Jesus is the very image of God and to see Him is to see God.

Jhn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?

2Cr 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

It also should occur to these people that in actuality you haven't ever truly seen another person. For our flesh is not who we are no more than Jesus' flesh is who He is. If you were to lose an arm you would be no less you. As the famous Christian apologist C.S. Lewis wrote, "You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body."

[Peter]

2. God has never been seen. Jesus has been seen. Therefore it follows that Jesus is not God.

Again Scripture does teach that God has never been seen. But again this shallow view of Scripture neglects the entire counsel of God.

Indeed as well as the first time that God manifest, or revealed Himself as a man, who Abraham immediately recognized as YHWH.

Gen 18:2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw [them], he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, 3 And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:

And Abraham fixed Yahweh some food that He ate.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2334.0
Does that mean Abraham saw YHWH? No it means he saw a manifestation of YHWH. A way that YHWH chose to reveal Himself to Abraham.

We see Him addressed as God when He was manifest as a man in the person of Jesus Christ in His glorified body after the resurrection.

Jhn 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Perhaps one of those times when a Sacred Name King James would be convenient.
http://www.eliyah.com/Scripture/
http://www.sacrednamebible.com/

[resistingrexmundi]

3. I will title this objection "the lesser argument" since it encompasses multiple verses.

Jhn 13:16   Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him. 

Here, it is opined by the opposition, that Jesus being sent by the Father is admitting that He (Jesus) is lesser than God and therefore cannot be God. In this instance context is thrown to the wind. If these objecters were to read the entire passage they would see that Jesus was referencing Himself as the one who sends and His disciples as the sent. The point He was making is that if He (Jesus) being their lord served them in humility then they should not feel themselves above doing likewise since they are less than He.

Jhn 14:28   Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. 

This is one of those times where the opposition uses a text where something is implied as the litmus test for veracity. They argue that since the Father is greater than Jesus then Jesus cannot be God. The problem with this statement is that it isn't an overt statement. Any statement where meaning is derived from inference must be subordinate to a statement of overt admission. Verses such as John 1:1; 8:58; 10:30 are all overt statements within the same book that the above verse comes from. So how is 'for my Father is greater than I.' and 'I and my Father are one' reconciled? Or the many other statements of divinity for that matter? Well the solution is actually found within this very paragraph. Just as one verse of inference must be subordinate to a verse of overt admission so too is the Son subordinate to the Father in His role as Messiah. But just as one verse is no 'less' authorative or inspired Jesus is no less God than God. An analogy that can help is this: I am an husband, a son, and a brother. However my will as a brother is subordinate to my will as a son which in turn is subordinate to my will as an husband. I would never put my brother before my mother, or my mother before my wife. However the husband, son and brother are all one. Now if I, as a simple creature, can be this complex and nuanced how much more so can our God be?

Ultimately this argument fails its' own test because IF Jesus were proven not to be God because He was sent then this would mean the Holy Spirit is not God because Jesus was the one who sent it.


Jhn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Jhn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Earlier in John it is the Father who sends the Holy Spirit (14:26). Not only does this also expose the falacy of the argument that Jesus is not God because He was sent by God but it is enlightening that the Father sent the Holy Spirit in Jesus' name. Also the fact that the Father, and Jesus both are said to have sent the Holy Spirit undergirds the truth of them having the same essence.

1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

The irony of the opposition using this verse to 'prove' that Jesus isn't God is that they would in turn be arguing that man and woman are not equal because man is her head. It also falls under the same logical failings as the above mentioned verse.

[Peter]

Commensurate with the global rise in anti-Semetism is a rise in anti-Zionism. It seems that some folks with deep seated racial hatred are searching for ways to claim that their anti-Zionism is sanctioned by God. I don't doubt that some acquire their hatred of Jews as a result of doctrine, like so many that hold replacement theology, that springs from Jesuit Luis Alcazar's partial-preterist doctrine.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=5.0

I had never heard of the "Serpent Seed" doctrine until I became engaged in a chat with a youtuber recently, who replied to one of my videos on Christian Zionism, and thanks to him discovered Arnold Murray who is one of the primary 20th century purveyors of the serpent seed "doctrine of devils". Murray boasts millions of viewers of his "Shepherd's Chapel" TV show where he "preaches" with a velvet tongue, but is a demonstrated false prophet and failed future predictor. Some of his followers call themselves "Christian Overcomers". Even members of his cult refer to the heresy as the "hidden word" because they are well aware that their racist and bigoted "doctrine of devils" is contrary to 2,000 years of universal Christian core doctrine. You will find a large volume of these heretics if you youtube search
arnold murray
kenites
serpent seed
christian overcommers

You would think that members of Murray's cult would have the good sense to run from Arnold Murray like a scalded dog, if only based on the fruit of who has held, and holds, this demonic heresy including Madame Helena Blavatsky, the famous 19th century satanist, Adolf Hitler who employed the doctrine in genocide of millions of Jews, and today held by Nazis, skinheads, illuminati, Aryans, white supremacists, and the Ku Klux Klan. Yet members remain indoctrinated because Murray has claimed that if his followers don't buy into his hogwash then they are not among God's elect. Members thus brainwashed even refer to each other as "elect".

What this doctrine and these people are in fact doing, is aiding and abetting Muhammad's followers conquest of Israel, to the demise of Jews and Christians in Israel.

I recently did a video directed toward the folks that have been so sorely deceived by Murray, and his heresy that can be deconstructed and demonstrated to be pure blasphemy, in light of a single verse of scripture.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3196.0

I don't believe I've come across a false prophet, that was more of a ravening wolf, more effectively donning the sheep's clothing. Just listen to 5 minutes of one of Murray's shows, like this one featured on hillbillybushcraft's channel (which is who I had the chat with that introduced me to this doctrine of demons).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE9S3lGolj0