Another sorely deceived - March 2011

[Peter]

To my PM YouTube box

3-14

U reject island so what. I don't reject it i embrace it and I'm far from a racist

[Peter]

3-14

[[[[U reject island so what. I don't reject it i embrace it and I'm far from a racist]]]]

Sorry but I can't decipher what you wrote. Can you?
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Followed by
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[[[U reject island so what. I don't reject it i embrace it and I'm far from a racist]]]

If you meant Islam, of course I reject it. God's people have followed Him through 2 covenants, by ALL of His prophets and Apostles, of His 1600 year record, for 3500 years.
Muhammad declared the EXACT OPPOSITE of the Gospel through his 23 year 7th century record. The Jews knew he was a false prophet and certainly Christians do. It isn't like we weren't warned.

Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

But Muhammad didn't even bother with the sheep's clothing but came as a ravening wolf. An imperialistic conquering, murdering, prisoner abusing, thief. Likely the most consummate terrorist in the history of mankind. That's why everywhere you find his true followers today, you find murder, mayhem and misery. With 2 million innocents killed in the Sudan alone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9Rdej28pP4

[Peter]

(No need to read these replies as they are quoted in their entirety in my replies to them below)

3-15

simple error islam. just because my faith is different from yours,it doesnt mean you have to start with the false accusations. you feel comfortable being whatever you are a christian or a catholic or whatever. you havnt sacrificed anything by fitting in with the so called popular religious culture. i have sacrificed alot since my faith change and am proud of it. you can bring up all the propaganda about islam if you want, it wont change the fact that islam and Judaism is the only monotheistic faith on the planet. and they both confirm each other. so i will let you go and you can be the crazy bible thumper quoting scriptures that you dont even know the source to. dont you have the council of nicea to exam before you tell someone that there faith is wrong? im sure you would find the proof that they voted to take out the books that confirmed the truth of muhammad. so is christianity monotheism or polytheism? the fact is it is paganism and blasphemy against GOD in the literal sense. because if you think a man can be GOD or come in the form of GOD you are going against abraham and his GOD. so i think you need soul searching and stop acting as if your protecting people from islam when you know nothing about it other then folk stories and twisted hadith. and another thing is when you try to apply you 2011 ideology to an ancient culture and say they are wrong. it shows your ignorance and that you are just a hater of islam using a shallow minded technique.
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Also sent to me on 3-15

and you said muhammad didnt bother to use sheep clothing" but you quoted the verse saying sheep clothing. first of all every false prophet has an alternate agenda other then doing the will of GOD. so tell me, what was muhammads secret sheep clothing agenda??? he freed slaves prayed to GOD helped the oppressed and gave rights to weman and also established a home and sanctuary for those who could not. he gave untill he had nothing. he spoke of jesus as a noble prophet of GOD.why would he say that if he was false. have you ever noticed that every false prophet tried to impersonate jesus? but muhammad didnt do that. get real man,its obvious to me you are just a secretly racist person. and yes i will put you in a category now...... most likely you are a white evangelic who feels he is protecting his country by degrading islam. you dont believe in freedom of religion, you most likely spoke out against the mosque in new york which would be totally against jesus. or you are some misguided african american who just wants to follow a popular Anglo christian culture thinking you are showing your loyalty to your country. so basically you care more about your country then the truth. your really a nationalist hiding behind religion. because a true christian would listen to the truth instead of rejecting it. thats why i say you are a racist nationalist who only thinks all muslims are terrorists or something and you dont know anything about jesus. i seek refuge in GOD from the satan, and his followers ameen. by the way im an african american i have studied you and your fake christians deviant behaviour on here for years and i know you do this for nothing other then hate and envy. you wont get far with your tactics. the devil never changes. they said the same thing about jesus in his time. the called his mother a whore and they called him a mad man and a witch, so its obvious a false prophet would appeal to everyone because it seems that the true prophets go through the hardest tests. so again how could muhammad be a false prophet when he basically is enduring the same treatment that they gave jesus.

[Peter]

[[[[simple error islam. just because my faith is different from yours, ......]]]]

Kids have faith in the tooth fairy. Just because you are willing to believe a lie doesn't mean it will magically come true.

[[[[[...... it doesnt mean you have to start with the false accusations.]]]]

Mine aren't false accusations but matters of FACT. Islam is the EXACT OPPOSITE of the Gospel. Jews, Christians and secular historians of the day all recognized that Jesus was crucified. This is the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel and the new covenant path to salvation.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Satan, through an ignorant 7th century SW Arabian desert dweller fills his people with complete resolve as to what to DISbelieve, leaving a vacuum in his followers as to just who did die on the cross.

Then he makes them prostrate themselves to the Quraish pagan's Kaaba in Mecca, and the Quraish's black stone idol 5 times a day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfWy5KaFvbU

[Peter]

[[[you feel comfortable being whatever you are a christian or a catholic or whatever. you havnt sacrificed anything by fitting in with the so called popular religious culture.]]]

My young friend, nearly 500 Christians are martyred EVERY DAY all around the world. This is the way it was with Jesus, and His apostles, and his followers for the last 2,000 years. 2 million innocents killed in the Sudan alone by Muhammadans.

[[[[[ i have sacrificed alot since my faith change and am proud of it.]]]]

Pride is of Satan. What have you sacrificed?

[[[[ you can bring up all the propaganda about islam if you want, it wont change the fact that islam and Judaism is the only monotheistic faith on the planet. and they both confirm each other.]]]]

That's a foolish filthy lie. Satan's prophet Muhammad even made him switch the Qibla - the direction that his followers were to pray to - from Jerusalem to Mecca and changed from the Sabbath, to Satan's "holy" day being Friday, just to spite Yahweh's people. Muhammad violated ALL of the 10 commandments. While being the most consummate terrorist in the history of mankind.

[[[[ so i will let you go and you can be the crazy bible thumper quoting scriptures that you dont even know the source to. dont you have the council of nicea to exam before you tell someone that there faith is wrong? im sure you would find the proof that they voted to take out the books that confirmed the truth of muhammad.]]]]]

You are labeling your own prophet a liar and a fool for having declared IN THE 7TH CENTURY...
Sura 5:47 Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

[[[[ so is christianity monotheism or polytheism?]]]]

Mark 12:29 ... The Lord our God is one Lord: ... 32 ... for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/

In the person of Yeshua isn't the first time Yahweh manifest, or revealed Himself as a man. He walked up to Abraham, and even had Abraham give Him some food and drink.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cjXj6TMOAM

[Peter]

[[[[ the fact is it is paganism and blasphemy against GOD in the literal sense.]]]]

So then why do you prostrate yourself to the Quraish's Kaaba that they built in the 5th century AD for Arabian moon, sun, star, wind and jinn-demon worship?

[[[[[ because if you think a man can be GOD or come in the form of GOD you are going against abraham and his GOD.]]]]

But Yahweh revealed Himself as a man and talked specifically to Abraham so you are simply following a god of your own creation and false presumption as I showed you in the attached video in the last PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cjXj6TMOAM
Here's the chapter.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gen&c=18

[[[[ so i think you need soul searching and stop acting as if your protecting people from islam when you know nothing about it other then folk stories and twisted hadith.]]]]

Since there is not A SINGLE SHRED OF historical or archaeological evidence that suggests that Mecca ever existed before pagan immigrants from Yemen settled it in the 4th century AD, then the pagan rituals that you engage in are probably nothing more than adopted, then adapted, Arabian moon, sun, star, and jinn-demon worship rituals.
Why don't you search out archaeological and historical EVIDENCE that suggests otherwise?
http://www.historyofmecca.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq8VOZbuu-Q

[Peter]

[[[[ and another thing is when you try to apply you 2011 ideology to an ancient culture and say they are wrong.]]]]

It is you that is following the pop-7th century rantings of THE false Muhammad to trump the 1600 year record of Yahweh to mankind, that His people have followed through 2 covenants, for 3500 years. It is you that rejects ALL of the prophets and witnesses as revealed through that record to follow the 23 year 7th century unhistorical, abrogated nonsense of a murdering, prisoner raping, thief, as revealed through Islam's own books.

[[[[[ it shows your ignorance and that you are just a hater of islam using a shallow minded technique.]]]]]

I am called to love the things that God loves and hate the things that God hates which includes false prophets and their false religions. In fact I am called to love Muslims so much that I am devoted full time to helping them overcome the false prophet Muhammad and his repackaged pagan Arabian moon, sun, star, and jinn-demon worship that comes straight from the pit of hell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsPA_FZCjws

[Peter]

[[[[and you said muhammad didnt bother to use sheep clothing" but you quoted the verse saying sheep clothing. first of all every false prophet has an alternate agenda other then doing the will of GOD. so tell me, what was muhammads secret sheep clothing agenda???]]]]

Muhammad was the embodiment of Satan's agenda. To lead people away from Yahweh and straight into the pit of hell. While the self-proclaimed "prophet" was expressing Satan's desires he was also serving himself. That's why his alter-ego "Allah" inspired special suras to allow him all the wives he wanted - but only for him. A special sura so he could steal his step-son's only wife. Another sura allowing him 1/5 of all the property he and his boys stole from productive, literate, moral, and God faring people like the Quraiza Jews.

Muhammad didn't have a job so he had to finance the maintenance of his bevy of wives, concubines and slaves with the fruit of other people's productive labor. His band of fellow reprobates grew fast, with the promise of the other 4/5 of the "booty" including the wives and children of the vanquished to rape and sell into slavery.

Ishaq:475 We obeyed our Prophet's orders when he called us to war. When he called for violent efforts we made them. The Prophet's command is obeyed for he is truly believed. He will give us victory, glory, and A LIFE OF EASE.
http://www.petewaldo.com/banu_qurayza_massacre.htm

Muhammad always the EXACT OPPOSITE of Yahweh's people.
What did Abraham do after God Himself ordered Him vanquish the Sodomites.

Genesis 14.20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all. 21 And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself. 22 And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth, 23 That I WILL NOT [TAKE] from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that [is] thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:

http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2075.0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slLBam06iyg

[Peter]

[[[[he freed slaves prayed to GOD helped the oppressed and gave rights to weman and also established a home and sanctuary for those who could not. he gave untill he had nothing. he spoke of jesus as a noble prophet of GOD.why would he say that if he was false.]]]]]

The father of lies, Satan, had Muhammad poorly plagiarize scripture and Hebrew and Arabic fables, by buying scripture from the Jews, as well as long hours spent with his exChristian friend Jabr and many other Christians and Jews he was acquainted with including wives and concubines.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEYbJxylA2s

[Peter]

[[[[have you ever noticed that every false prophet tried to impersonate jesus?]]]]

Why don't you try to learn about things before making such ridiculous claims? False prophets pretend to be speaking for God, just the was Muhammad did. Many also claim to e inspired by angels, just as Muhammad did. Here are some examples.

Mary Baker Eddy - Christian Science
Joseph Smith - LDS Mormon
Charles Taze Russell - Jehovah's Witness
William Miller - Millerites associated into SDA
Ellen White - SDA Seventh Day Adventists

Joseph Smith claimed to have been spoken to by an angel called Maroni. These apparitions that manifest themselves to the naive and unwary are unclean spirits and demons from Satan's domain.

But Muhammad even believed it was a demon that met him in that cave and he felt tried to squeeze the life out of him 3 times. You see, my friend, we were warned about this.

2Cr 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

[[[[have you ever noticed that every false prophet tried to impersonate jesus? but muhammad didnt do that.]]]]

You are ignorant to Islamic history. The Quraiza Jews knew that their books condemned Muhammad as a false prophet. However Muhammad was so desperate to convince the Quraiza Jews that his phony revelation were true that he tried to convince them that he was the Messiah prophesied in the Old Testament. Muhammad's followers today still try to fit Muhammad into the Messianic prophesies of the Old Testament.

Yet the only reason you have for following a murdering, prisoner raping, thief is because Muhammad told his followers to follow him. There is no scriptural, historical, archaeological or geographical reason to follow him.

His followers even believe he rode from Mecca, to Jerusalem, prayed in a temple that had been torn down 500 years before, rode up to "paradise" and back to Mecca by morning of his magic flying donkey-mule. And why do they believe this? Because of all the witnesses of Muhammad's flying donkey-mule? No. Purely because Muhammad made the preposterous claim. At least the Greeks and Zoroastrians had the good sense to have FABLED people ride on their FABLED flying steeds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twwVjrhagL0

[Peter]

Why don't you come join me in the forum and defend your false prophet Muhammad?
I have copied and pasted our chat into a thread so the links could be live and our chat could remain organized.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2433.0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZF93B2iQHA

[Peter]

The Islamic Mufti of Jerusalem hand in hand with Hitler in genocide of Jews including 2 Islamic panzer divisions in Hitler's army.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxPDTGvGQqM

[Peter]

Muhammad's followers "Allah Akbar"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKWBr2CLFjY

[Peter]

[[[[most likely you are a white evangelic who feels he is protecting his country by degrading islam. you dont believe in freedom of religion, you most likely spoke out against the mosque in new york which would be totally against jesus. or you are some misguided african american who just wants to follow a popular Anglo christian culture thinking you are showing your loyalty to your country. so basically you care more about your country then the truth. your really a nationalist hiding behind religion. because a true christian would listen to the truth instead of rejecting it. thats why i say you are a racist nationalist who only thinks all muslims are terrorists or something and you dont know anything about jesus. i seek refuge in GOD from the satan, and his followers ameen.]]]]

See what I mean? Satan had Muhammad butcher some scripture and recite some Hebrew fables and it made you think Muhammad's religion has something to do with the God of the bible.

And through simple child psychology he instills in you a fear of hell by mentioning the punishment of those who reject the false prophet in 1 out of about every 9 verses in the Quran. You can't even see that Satan has you believing that simply you parrot that you "seek refuge from satan" that it will magically protect you from Satan. In other words, you take the father of lies - Satan - at his word, while you reject ALL of the prophets and witnesses of Yahweh as revealed through His 1600 year record, that His people have followed through 2 covenants for 3500 years. You believe a lie because you have no love of truth.

2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCTfWrDwmqk

[Peter]

[[[by the way im an african american ......]]]

Who falsely accuses others of racism where none exists. What does that make you?
Islam IS NOT a race.

2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be ... covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, ...

[[[[..... i have studied you and your fake christians deviant behaviour on here for years and i know you do this for nothing other then hate and envy.]]]

Christians are envious of Muhammad's followers prostrating themselves to the Kaaba and the Quraish's black stone idol 5 times a day? Envious of their running between Safa and Marwah 7 times just as the Quraish jinn-demon worshipers did?

Did you know that Muhammad's naked followers joined the naked pagans in their pagan rituals right up until the year before Muhammad's last Hajj, when the pagans got kicked out of their own ritual?
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#tawaf

Sahih Bukhari Volume 2, Book 26, Number 689:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
In the year prior to the last Hajj of the Prophet when Allahs Apostle made Abu Bakr the leader of the pilgrims, the latter (Abu Bakr) sent me in the company of a group of people to make a public announcement: 'No pagan is allowed to perform Hajj after this year, and no naked person is allowed to perform Tawaf of the Kaba.

Some of Muhammad's closest followers hated the Saee because they knew it was a pagan Arabian jinn-demon worship ceremony.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah

Narrated 'Asim: I asked Anas bin Malik: "Did you use to dislike to perform Tawaf between Safa and Marwa?" He said, "Yes, as it was of the ceremonies of the days of the Pre-lslamic period of ignorance, till Allah revealed: 'Verily! (The two mountains) As-Safa and Al-Marwa are among the symbols of Allah. It is therefore no sin for him who performs the pilgrimage to the Ka'ba, or performs 'Umra, to perform Tawaf between them.' " (2.158) (Sahih al-Bukhari 2 Book 26 710)

[[[[[ you wont get far with your tactics. the devil never changes. they said the same thing about jesus in his time. the called his mother a whore and they called him a mad man and a witch, so its obvious a false prophet would appeal to everyone because it seems that the true prophets go through the hardest tests. so again how could muhammad be a false prophet when he basically is enduring the same treatment that they gave jesus.]]]]

I strongly advise that you begin by investigating the preposterous notion of Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael having wandered 1200 kilometers from their home in Hebron, to Mecca, about 900 years before the first caravan was ever able to accomplish the journey.

Then understand what the true, factual, origins of Islam and it's rituals are
http://www.historyofmecca.com/origins_of_islam.htm

I'll pray for you my young friend. YOU COULD DIE THIS VERY DAY. Are you ready to stand before our judge?

Jhn 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Anytime you would like to review our chat in an organized fashion with live links please visit the thread in the forum. Please join us and defend the false prophet Muhammad and his STAND-ALONE 7th century religion. Please feel free to bring the best and brightest of Muhammad's defenders that you can find.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2433.0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJODE7Q2KcM

[Peter]

PS

[[[[dont you have the council of nicea to exam before you tell someone that there faith is wrong? im sure you would find the proof that they voted to take out the books that confirmed the truth of muhammad.]]]]]

Do you understand what you are saying? That hundreds of years before Muhammad was ever born or uttered his first "revelations" in the 7th century, the Council of Nicaea in the 4th century plotted against Muhammad.

Sorry my young friend. By the 7th century the Gospel had been translated into a hundred languages and had been copied a hundred thousand times and was being read all over the known world. Then in the 7th century Muhammad said

Sura 5:47 Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein.

So was Muhammad simply stupid, or just more ignorant, than your divine proclamations?
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cAwBQUnh6M

[Peter]

(you can skip reading the first one as it is quoted in it's entirety in reply)

3-16

wow someone must be upset. i must of tapped a nerve huh? the fact that you know nothing about islam is sad. go and watch the deen show. i cant believe you wrote 15 comments within such a small time period. was it because your a loving christian or your ego. your not better then me and im not better then you. the only thing that separates the people are there deeds in the sight of GOD. 15 personal messages. stop stroking my ego. im trying to be humble.lol joke joke! if you think that muslims worship a black rock then it proves you choose to not except the truth or you dont know. most likely you know thats not true. and that would make you a kuffar. it means one who covers the truth. keep it real man and stop hating islam and muhammadpbuh
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i see that you go on forums to bash islam.lol. how lame is that. when did jesus ever do that? do you think jesus would be next to you on a forum bashing a religion that believes in him? your hate and envy knows no bounds. the fact that america is mainly christian and there is more senseless rape and murder in america then any other country in the world proves that christians do not follow there bible. christian preachers who become rich by selling the gospel is disgusting. they think they are saved by the money and success they have gained. even though christians are the super power of the world there are millions of starving people who die everyday and all the christians do is try to profit from the poor. and what about the bible thumbing pharmaceutical companies that try to keep america medicated instead of really finding a cure for diseases. muslims are the only people who have had the balls to find a cure for cancer and aids and speak about it. its obvious they dont care about money. muslim scholars are the only people who still live as jesus did. most of them sleep on the floor and they dont ask people for donations. they are more genuine then those wolves on the pulpit with there fancy church and there fake holy ghost act. a muslim country is the only place you can go and leave your money on the ground and go pray and when you come back it will still be there. unlike the thieves of america who have no GOD conscience. you have no idea of the character of muslims and they way it benefits the world. we have seen how your american gov has brought destruction to the whole world with those jesus scopes. acog scopes with bible verses on them. look it up. there is radicalism in every culture but christians are responsible because god has given them authority and they have became followers of there desires. so have you with your bashing forums
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if false prophets pretend to speak for GOD then who are are the people standing up in churches saying they are prophets????lol. i swear i see a false christian prophet everyday on tv saying they heard this and that from GOD. they even put water in a bottle and tell you it will bring you fortune. and many people find out it was a scam. and a prophet of GOD must have a sign or miracle. and even the miricles of jesus were pushed to the side by haters who said he healed the blind by the help of the devil. so even when people see a sign from a prophet of GOD people will still disbelieve. and another thing is that jesus did many miracles but did you see any of them?? no. why would GOD want you to believe something you cant see?? this proves that his miracles were for his people and not the rest of the world. how can you say you truly believe when you see no sign. muhammads miracle or sign is the quran,and it is still in the same form as it was when it was revealed to him and he also said it will last forever. and he will protect it from evil. another sign that muhammad is a prophet is that with the help of GOD he changed the whole world in over 20 years. that would be impossible. and dont say he killed raped and pilliged. because in his time there were minimum deaths compared to the 21st century atom bombing and world wars. people listen to muhammad because he was kind and cared about the people for the sake of GOD. jesus didnt even have the time to tell christians that they shouldn't use interest which is a sin in the bible but just about every christian bankers is hellbound. how can you be a follower of jesus when you dont keep any of his laws. christians also vote to keep the law of GOD out of the government because they are deviant and want to be part time christians. im sure this is just a hobby of yours. you dont do this for GOD you do it for ur ego

[Peter]

I'll reply in detail next time I get a chance. In the meantime why don't you get familiar the origins of Muhammad's religion and Mecca. You can start at this link.

http://www.historyofmecca.com/origins_of_islam.htm

[Peter]

[[[[[wow someone must be upset. i must of tapped a nerve huh? the fact that you know nothing about islam is sad. go and watch the deen show. i cant believe you wrote 15 comments within such a small time period. was it because your a loving christian or your ego. your not better then me and im not better then you.]]]]

That's right. We are both God's creation. I follow Yahweh through the Messiah Yahshua as revealed through all of the prophets and witnesses in His 1600 year record.
You follow Muhammad.

[[[[[ the only thing that separates the people are there deeds in the sight of GOD.]]]]

You sound like an apostate Christian that believes that all roads lead to heaven. How much does Yahweh value your good deeds?

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

In the Hebrew that reference to "filthy rags" is to used women's menstrual cloths. Good works are the natural result of salvation. Never the path to it.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

[[[[[15 personal messages. stop stroking my ego. im trying to be humble.lol joke joke!]]]]

Unfortunately someone who spends their time parroting lies and making false accusations against others is not likely to put any effort into seeking out truth. That's why you didn't offer a single reply in regard to the history of Mecca.
PMs like yours offer the opportunity for our discussion to be found in the forum by Muslims that actually are seeking out truth.

[[[[if you think that muslims worship a black rock then it proves you choose to not except the truth or you dont know. most likely you know thats not true.]]]]

Of course that's not true. The Quraish didn't worship their black stone idol either. The Quraish VENERATED their black stone idol because it REPRESENTED their moon god. Just the way Muslims VENERATE the Quraish's black stone idol as if it represents Muhammad's alter-ego "Allah".
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2039.0

[[[[and that would make you a kuffar. it means one who covers the truth.]]]]

But it was you that hid the truth that you VENERATE the Quraish's black stone idol, by setting up a straw man argument regarding worship of the black stone.

[[[[[ keep it real man and stop hating islam and muhammadpbuh]]]]]

In 3 replies you failed to address the important subjects in my replies. You have accused that I don't know anything about Islam, but continue to prove that it is you that don't know about Islam - particularly it's origins.
Since Mecca did not exist before the 4th century AD, that means all of the "tradition" that was penned in the 7th and 8th centuries AD is provably nothing more than fiction created by a bunch of semi-literate SW Arabian desert dwellers.
This also confirms that Islamic rituals are nothing more than adopted then adapted Arabian moon, sun, star, wind and jinn-demon worship rituals.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj_umrah.htm
Do you understand this? If you disagree then please direct me to some historical or archaeological EVIDENCE that suggests that Mecca existed before the Christian era.
http://www.historyofmecca.com/origins_of_islam.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq8VOZbuu-Q

[Peter]

no really watch the deen show. dont prejudge islam. and why would you use evidence in islam if you think its false anyway? makes no sense to me. you see its different to be a muslim because we believe in the books that came before. why would satan want us to believe in the old books? so that would mean your book is from satan too? makes no sense.thats why i said you are filled with hate to the point you have become blind. anyone who hates something can bring up a thousand inginious peices of evidence to not except the truth. for example i could tell you that washing regularly is bad for you and a satanic action. and i can go find evidense on google that it is. i could find a scholar who has written about it and then i would have a case. this is why it is not evidence alone that makes a person believe in GOD it is GOD who turns the hearts of people out of HIS mercy. GOD looks at your intention and he gives accordingly. if a man wants to fight the truth then GOD gives you the rope to hang yourself. and the rope in your case is islamic hadith totally taken out of context to add more fuel to your hate.

[Peter]

[[[[no really watch the deen show. dont prejudge islam. and why would you use evidence in islam if you think its false anyway? makes no sense to me.]]]]

That's because you are not trying to understand - for good reason - because the truth is too horrifying for you to even contemplate. Try it again.

The archaeological and historical records of ancient Arabian towns are some of the best preserved on earth, because the low rainfall prevented the degradation of that evidence.

But THE FACT is that there is NOT A SHRED OF EVIDENCE, either in Islam's records, or in ANY OTHER Arabic records or other historical or archaeological records that suggest that Mecca ever existed before the 4th century AD.
Thus Mecca never existed before the 4th century, or it's kaaba before the 5th century, when it appears in the Arabic record.

Here's a Wikipedia article on ancient towns in Saudi Arabia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Towns_in_Saudi_Arabia
Mecca is not on the list because there is no evidence that suggests that Mecca is an ancient town. That's because it didn't exist before pagan immigrants from Yemen settled the area in the 4th century AD.

The actual historical record describes the area where Mecca was eventually built as being inhabitable. That's because it only gets about 1/10 of the rainfall that even Yemen gets. Thus not even pastures. There was no reason for anyone to ever want to live in the area until they could engage trade with caravans.

The ACTUAL scriptural, historical, and archaeological record of Abraham's journey indicates it is in the OPPOSITE direction of Mecca.
Abraham settled in Hebron 1200 kilometers away from where Mecca was eventually built and he lived about 900 years before the first caravan was ever able to make the trip along the Red Sea in Arabia.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND? Mecca never existed before the Christian era.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0WgIjl9Cbo

[Peter]

3-18

its amazing how the elite of the world can make it look like a whole part of history is false or never existed. they did the same thing with african culture. they made sure noone knew about anything about the rich culture of africans. why? because they wanted them to be slaves, and low caliber people. if you withhold there history you can make there future. this is why the quran comes with something you cant hide. a miricle. if i burn every bible on earth and destroy the manuscripts will the world be able to produce another?NO! because there isnt one person,not even the pope who has memorized the bible. and with all of the denominations of christianity, it would be impossible to bring a single bible back because some denominations dont except certain books within the bible. if the bible is the word of GOD why is it not in the hearts of the followers? on the other hand,there is only one quran and millions have memorized it front to back. if you were to go ahead with that burn a quran day it will do no damage. by the grace of GOD i have memorized most of the quran and would be able to assist a scholar with a copy. so you see there is no miracle with the bible. if it disappears so will christianity. and according to your scholars alot of the book is missing and fabricated. the fact that quran is so clear and precise about the commands of GOD scares you. you would rather have a book of riddles so you can come to your own conclusion on what you feel GOD is saying. the clearest statement in the bible concerning GOD and how he deserves worship is this(Thou shalt not have strange gods before me
Thou shalt not make for thyself any graven image
(carved idol) or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; thou shalt not bow down to them or serve them; for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, punishing the iniquities of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those that hate me; but showing mercy to thousands of generations of those that love me, and keep my commandments. this is clear proof that GOD does not dwell inside man and nor does he have a likeness to GOD. its when the gentile pagans took the scriptures and tampered with them to fit there ideologies of GOD. why do you think the jews will never believe that jesus is lord or the son of GOD? because they know that is idolatry. they would be going against your Yahweh but i call him ALLAH. but in the new testament it is filled with riddles and scrambled sentences to capture the imagination and not the truth. this is why jesus will say the father is greater then i and youll find elsewhere hinting to his divinity. very confusing. so there is nothing left of the bible,sorry. jesus has ascended and he never died. the other thing is that books were revealed to all the other prophets but it seems jesus was taught the Torah and supposedly his disciples wrote the new testament. nothing knew was revealed to jesus by GOD. so when muslims say he came to the lost tribe of Israel we mean it literally. he left no lineage of any sort. the prophet muhammad left 2 things the quran and the practices. these are the things jesus should of left if he were the light of the world. instead we know nothing about him other than healing the blind and his miracles noone seen. at least i can say i have proof of muhammad and GOD. where is yours?

[Peter]

3-19

[[[its amazing how the elite of the world can make it look like a whole part of history is false or never existed.]]]]

You aren't reading carefully. Other Arabian cities are well attested in the historical and archaeological record that are located to the north and to the south of Mecca. Look at the archaeological evidence of the intricately carved old tombs, and well preserved pagan worship sites in Madin Saleh and other Arabian towns for example.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mada%27in_Saleh

Do you see that beautiful stone handwork from that civilized pre-muhammadan area?



Yet what does Mecca have? A pile of rocks that aren't even square, cobbled together by a bunch of pagans to worship the moon, sun, star, planets and jinn-demons. Built in the model of other kaabas for Arabian star family worship.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1133.0

You refuse to see the truth, even though Mecca is supposed to have been the geographical EPICENTER of Muhammad's religion SINCE ADAM. Where is the evidence? The closer one gets to Jerusalem the more abundant artifacts become. You can hardly pick up a shovel full of earth without it containing artifacts. Yet ABSENT for Mecca. Nadda.

THINK about it. The EXACT EQUIVALENT is if you were to inform me that there is not a shred of evidence that suggests that Jerusalem ever existed before the 4th century AD? Can you see how stupid someone would have to be to make that claim of the land of the prophets and patriarchs? There are over a million artifacts just on display!
Yet all you have offered is another unsupported fantasy from false presumption, to go along with the 7th century fantasy you have been deceived into believing.

[[[[[ they did the same thing with african culture. they made sure noone knew about anything about the rich culture of africans. why? because they wanted them to be slaves....]]]]

Who did and still does?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1j8D1j9mEc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUW9MWLIQYw

I erased a PM that I spent a lot of time on so the rest of my comments will be in the forum where that can't happen. All one has to do is push a back button and the work reappears. If you aren't afraid why not join me there, in the light of day, instead of this dark alley of PMing. I can keep the chat between the two of us if you like.

[Peter]

Look at how much nicer this venue is. We can quote each other, post live links and pictures, and keep track of our conversation over time so we don't have to repeat ourselves. The forum search function works great for finding things in our prior posts.

http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2433.msg10098#msg10098

[Peter]

no really watch the deen show.

I've been sent links to several episodes and even commented on them on the videos and in this forum. What you are saying is that rather remain ignorant than seek out truth, because you would rather have your ears tickled by Greek sophist styled purveyors of falsehood. In the model of the consummate liar and antichrist entertainer Ahmed Deedat for example.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=335.0

dont prejudge islam.

I have been studying Islam and chatting with Muslims for years now. It can hardly be characterized as a prejudgment at this point. You made the accusation "the fact that you know nothing about islam is sad", yet who has demonstrated they "know nothing about Islam"?

and why would you use evidence in islam if you think its false anyway? makes no sense to me.

http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2433.msg10096#msg10096
It's the ABSENCE of evidence that I am pointing out. Why do you suppose that not a single one of Muhammad's followers has been able to present any evidence that suggests that Mecca ever existed before the 4th century AD?
Yet archaeological EVIDENCE evermore affirms the scriptures as being a reliable record of ancient history, which is also supported by the geography. The same geography that proves that any history of Mecca, which lies 1200 kilometers across harsh barren desert away, is nothing more than 7th and 8th century created fiction.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1483.0

you see its different to be a muslim because we believe in the books that came before.

That is a lie from the pit of hell. You follow Muhammad and Muhammad's law. Period. Muhammad even switched the Quibla from Jerusalem to Mecca, and switched his "holy" day from the Sabbath, to Friday.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1955.0
You follow pagan rituals of the flesh that Muhammad borrowed from cults like the Sabians such as praying in vain repetitions 5 times a day.

Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

why would satan want us to believe in the old books?

The father of lies has obviously fooled you into believing that you do, so you would lie on his behalf, just as you did. But the FACT IS you reject ALL of the prophets and witnesses of Yahweh as revealed through those "old books". Indeed Muslims must believe the preposterous notion that those books were somehow "corrupted", in order to follow Muhammad whose book is the EXACT OPPOSITE of the Gospel. Can you yourself see what a transparent lie you told? (though I know you didn't intend to) It's like you said "We believe in the old books, but we don't believe the old books." You reject Yahweh's 1600 year record and the Messiah AS REVEALED through that record. What does that make you?

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

Simply saying you believe in the "old books" when you don't - indeed when you believe the exact opposite - only demonstrates Satan's deception. Indeed your own prophet broke all of the 10 commandments.

so that would mean your book is from satan too? makes no sense.

Yahweh's 1600 year record makes perfect sense. That's why His people have followed it through 2 covenants for 3500 years. That's why following the false prophet Muhammad and his adopted and then adapted pagan Arabian Star Family worship rituals makes no sense at all except perhaps to a bunch of 7th century SW Arabian desert dwelling illiterates. In today's world only those that run from the truth could follow such a deception. That's why the "Old Books" you mention are banned in 52 countries.

thats why i said you are filled with hate to the point you have become blind. anyone who hates something can bring up a thousand inginious peices of evidence to not except the truth.

Yet you have not brought up a single piece of historical or archaeological evidence to support your belief that Mecca existed before the 4th century AD. Indeed your own "prophet" told us who built the Kaaba

Sahih Muslim Book 007, Number 3078:
    'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Messenger may peace be upon him) said to me: Had your people not been unbelievers in the recent past (had they not quite recently accepted Islam), I would have demolished the Ka'ba and would have rebuilt it on the foundation (laid) by Ibrahim; for when the Quraish had built the Ka'ba, they reduced its (area), and I would also have built (a door) in the rear.

Now that we have firmly established the UNhistorical nature of Mecca confirming Islam's rituals are provably, solely, of pagan origin...
http://www.historyofmecca.com/origins_of_islam.htm
...we can move on to the "ingenious" method of simply comparing the 1600 year record of Yahweh through all of His prophets and witnesses, with the 23 year, 7th century record of Muhammad which is revealed as the EXACT OPPOSITE of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
http://www.petewaldo.com/