Author Topic: Another sorely deceived - March 2011  (Read 12505 times)

Peter

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Re: Another sorely deceived - March 2011
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2011, 08:58:15 AM »
Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

Matthew 27:35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.
Mark 15:24 And when they had crucified him, they parted his garments, casting lots upon them, what every man should take.
Luke 24:20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
John 19:23 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also [his] coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1175.0

Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

Christians and even Jews are in complete resolve as to the historical fact of Jesus' crucifixion, yet Muhammad's followers are EXACTLY how Muhammad described Christians and Jews and even secular historians of the day. Muhammadans are filled with complete resolve as to what to DISbelieve while being left in a complete vacuum as to WHO DID die on the cross, and the conjecture, doubt and lake of knowledge is exactly what follows.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=628.0

for example i could tell you that washing regularly is bad for you and a satanic action. and i can go find evidense on google that it is. i could find a scholar who has written about it and then i would have a case. this is why it is not evidence alone ......

My friend it is the ABSENCE OF EVIDENCE in this case. The FACT that Islam is ENTIRELY UNHISTORICAL, accompanied by THE FACT that Muhammad's stand-alone 23 year 7th century record revealed as the EXACT OPPOSITE of the 1600 year record of Yahweh to mankind, that necessarily condemns Islam.

....... that makes a person believe in GOD it is GOD who turns the hearts of people out of HIS mercy.

What you are really saying is that you desire to cast all reason aside because you would rather follow pure emotion, about which we are warned.
Jer 17:9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

That's why Muhammad killed people for exploring his "revelations", and pointing out his contradictions and material that was plagiarized from known Arabic fables and such. It's why Imams even today note congregants that ask questions about Islam as possible apostates, to put on hit lists as "renegades" and "infidels", that is potential apostates. Islamic scholars even torturing their students for being too inquisitive.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=567.msg4924#msg4924

Surah 5:101 O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble.

"Allah has hated for you three things: ... 3. And asking too many questions (in disputed religious matters)." (Dr. Khan, Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol. 2, #555)

The God of the Bible is very much different.
1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

GOD looks at your intention and he gives accordingly. if a man wants to fight the truth then GOD gives you the rope to hang yourself.

Yahweh does indeed give us free will. We can follow Him through all of His prophets and witnesses in His 1600 year record of revelation to mankind, or we can follow Muhammad who's record is revealed as much the opposite of the Gospel, as Muhammad was to the Messiah, Jesus Christ.

and the rope in your case is islamic hadith totally taken out of context to add more fuel to your hate.

The Quran too. Do you really think that an ant and an hoopoe bird talked to king Solomon? (sura 27) Do you really believe that the sun sets in a pool of murky water? (sura 18:85) Do you really believe birds stoned an army to death by dropping pieces of clay on them? (sura 105) Do you really believe Muhammad rode a flying donkey-mule from Mecca and prayed in a temple that had been torn down 500 years before, the flew to the chicken and wine serving bordello of his imagination that he called "paradise", and back to Mecca by morning? (sura 17)
There is ONLY ONE REASON Muslims believe such tripe. That is because Muhammad declared it.
How many witnesses saw Muhammad's flying donkey-mule?
http://www.petewaldo.com/fables_fantasies.htm

The Quran proclaims the EXACT OPPOSITE of WHOLE SUBJECT of the  the Gospel.

Peter

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Re: Another sorely deceived - March 2011
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2011, 10:00:45 AM »
PMd one more on

3-19

Since the unhistorical nature of Islam
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2433.msg10098#msg10098
and it's pagan traditions have been confirmed, particularly when even your own prophet credited the pagan Quraish with building the Kaaba,
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2433.msg10100#msg10100
let's explore the next point.

You said "why would satan want us to believe in the old books?"
But the father of lies simply deceived you into making this false claim. Let's compare a little of what those "old books" say, to what Muhammad said.
(best viewed at the link)
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2433.msg10101#msg10101

Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

Matthew 27:35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.
Mark 15:24 And when they had crucified him, they parted his garments, casting lots upon them, what every man should take.
Luke 24:20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
John 19:23 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also [his] coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1175.0

Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

How can you claim that you believe in the "old books" when the Gospel is the EXACT OPPOSITE of Muhammad's claims?

Peter

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Re: Another sorely deceived - March 2011
« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2011, 11:55:10 AM »
bump

Peter

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Re: Another sorely deceived - March 2011
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2011, 06:46:52 AM »
3-19

your proof that you have no real evidence of jesus so called crusifixion is in the surah you posted. look how clear GOD is Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

and this also proves that the gospel is not the same gospel that was inspired by GOD. it doesnt even have the characteristics of a complete way of life. there are many elements missing and some misinterpreted. i dont have to use one stred of wiki proof and evidence from websites to prove it. i have done that already and it gets redundant. the first thing is that every prophet had a holy book and a sunah. jesus said he did not come to change anything right. so his holy book was still the old testament or the torah. fact. so it would seem that the gospel is his sunah,right. or his way in wich he practiced the torah. because you would have to go learn how to worship GOD and earn his pleasure by obeying jesus. fact. so why isnt there anything in the new testament on how jesus dealt with the pressing issues of today? if it were for all time. there is barely anything on how he prayed and what he did before he prayed. and since its not a complete way of life people start to make up things to fill in the blanks. our prophet came with a complete way of life inspired by GOD. just about every type of situation is described in the sunah or quran to guide mankind. where is this in the new testament? it is not correct to say i have to get a vision personally from jesus to be guided. that wouldnt be fair. where is the book explaining in detail the life and personal practices of jesus? that is the gospel. and you know it. the new testament leaves far too much room for free interpretation. this is why you have some people that are not muslim but they read the bible and they dont believe jesus is the son of GOD. why? because you can read it and come to your own conclusion about it. nothing is clear in it. this is why alot of denomination use the so called holy spirit to shake up and down and get some kind of revelation. because the knowledge given to them in the bible is shallow. you should pay attention to history sir. because moses had a complete way of life also and so did the others. it was clear to the people of moses time on the way to pray the way to eat the way to dress the way to love and the way to be angry and the way to marriage and all the righteousness was very strait forward and detailed. what happen to the gospel??? there isnt even wrong and right mentioned in the gospel. so people do what they want now? no wonder jesus called a group of people lawless. my lord has made the two ways clear to me,i hope he helps you. you dont need science and text books and all this crap to prove a religion. you just have to be sincere.

Peter

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Re: Another sorely deceived - March 2011
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2011, 07:16:10 AM »
[[[[your proof that you have no real evidence of jesus so called crusifixion is in the surah you posted. look how clear GOD .......]]]]]

You mean Muhammad.

[[[[....... is Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-]]]]

If a single Christian over the last 2,000 years, had a doubt about Jesus being killed, then they wouldn't be a Christian. It's as simple as that. Nor does any sect of Judaism disbelieve that Jesus was killed. So Christians and Jews are in complete resolve that Jesus was killed.

So why don't you tell me, WHO DIED ON THE CROSS?

[[[[and this also proves that the gospel is not the same gospel that was inspired by GOD.]]]]

You poor lost soul. Can't you even begin to see how broken your mind is? You are saying that 600 years after the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, the false words of A SINGLE illiterate, SW Arabian desert dwelling, murdering, prisoner raping, thief, "prove" that the Gospel somehow became the EXACT OPPOSITE of what it had been. Can't even you see the preposterous nature of your claim?

By the 7th century the Gospel had been translated into as many as a hundred languages, had been copied perhaps a hundred thousand times and was being read all over the known world. In the 7th century Muhammad quipped

Sura 5:47 Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein.

So was Muhammad just that stupid, or simply ignorant to your wealth of knowledge, to have committed such a foolish blunder?
Was it his illiteracy that caused him to be ignorant to the fact that the Gospel was the EXACT OPPOSITE of the lie that he declared?

Peter

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Re: Another sorely deceived - March 2011
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2011, 08:16:16 AM »
it doesnt even have the characteristics of a complete way of life.

Of course it does, even in a single verse, but you can't see it because you are stumbling around lost, as one of the children of the flesh.

Mark 12:29  And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment.  31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.  32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:

What is Muhammad's answer to that?
Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKWBr2CLFjY

Muslims are only called to love other Muslims, or to fake it when they are proselytizing. That's why the zakat tax (compelled "charity" which is an oxymoron) goes to help only Muslims. We aren't likely to see 2 nickels worth of money or help going from Muslim states to Japan unless one or two do it for purely political reasons.
Compare what Christians and Muslims are doing in Africa. Muslims capturing and trading in slaves, Christians freeing them.

there are many elements missing and some misinterpreted. i dont have to use one stred of wiki proof and evidence from websites to prove it. i have done that already and it gets redundant.

You have proven absolutely nothing so far, and the only redundancy has been in your demonstrating your self-delusion repeatedly. This is why I kept a record of our chat. Please click on the title of any post in which you proved anything, and copy and paste the link, and show it and show me.

Indeed you are so deluded that you claimed that just because Muhammad declared the EXACT OPPOSITE of the Gospel, then the 1600 year record of Yahweh to mankind through ALL of his prophets and witnesses that closed in the 1st century must be false, while THE false prophet's 23 year, 7th century record, is true.

the first thing is that every prophet had a holy book and a sunah. jesus said he did not come to change anything right.

Wrong. Jesus came to fulfill the law. Muhammad broke all 10 commandments. He even switched the Quibla from Jerusalem to Mecca, and switched his "holy" day to Friday, from the Sabbath, just to spite Yahweh's people.

so his holy book was still the old testament or the torah. fact. so it would seem that the gospel is his sunah,right. or his way in wich he practiced the torah. because you would have to go learn how to worship GOD and earn his pleasure by obeying jesus.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

fact. so why isnt there anything in the new testament on how jesus dealt with the pressing issues of today?

There of course is, for those that have been born again, and have a love of God.
Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

if it were for all time. there is barely anything on how he prayed and what he did before he prayed.

We are given instruction as to how to pray.
1Th 5:17 Pray without ceasing.
You see? It's about relationship, not ritual.

And we're instructed how not to pray.
Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Muslims are children of the flesh just like the occult cult of the Sabians that Muhammad copied his praying 5 times a day, and performing ablution, from. As children of the flesh Muslims minds are on the flesh, rather than the Spirit. For example when some Muslims in Saudi Arabia learned that the Quibla of some of their mosques pointed a little in the wrong direction, they were afraid that their "Allah" didn't hear their prayers.
The God of the Bible, Yahweh, is omnipresent. Very different than the Quraish deity "Allah". God hears my prayers no matter what direction I am pointing or what I am doing. We are in a continuous relationship through the Spirit.

Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

That's why you believe "paradise" is the chicken and wine serving bordello, that sprang from Muhammad's imagination.
You believe that somehow if you put on a good performance that somehow you can earn your way into heaven.

and since its not a complete way of life people start to make up things to fill in the blanks. our prophet came with a complete way of life inspired by GOD.

Even Muhammad believed it was a demon that met him in that cave and nearly squeezed the life out of him 3 times, before his wife (whose late father was deeply into the occult and communicated with demons) talked him out of it. Yet I don't have to tell you the value of a woman's testimony in Islam. Since Muhammad's religion is based on what to DISbelieve, and is revealed as the EXACT OPPOSITE of the Gospel, from a Christian perspective it can only have been inspired by Satan.

2Cr 11:14    And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

just about every type of situation is described in the sunah or quran to guide mankind. where is this in the new testament?

You can learn everything you need to in a single verse.
Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

What if everyone in the world observed that, instead of the example of Muhammadan killing of over 2 million in the Sudan alone, for example? Do you see how simple that was? Sadly you will continue in self-imposed blindness to the simplicity of that law, because you are looking through scaled over eyes, since you can't understand the things of the Spirit of God, until you are OF the Spirit of God.

1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

It isn't about praying in vain repetitions as the heathen, my friend, you must be born again.

Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Before you are filled with God's Spirit.

2Cr 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Just as prophesied by Jeremiah of the new covenant. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=537.0
Jeremiah 31:31  Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:    32  Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: {although...: or, should I have continued an husband unto them?}    33  But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Peter

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Re: Another sorely deceived - March 2011
« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2011, 09:23:35 AM »
it is not correct to say i have to get a vision personally from jesus to be guided.

Of course that would be incorrect. Once we are born again God's Spirit guides us. Some of us get visions and some don't. For example it's estimated that 43% of the 6 million African Muslims that come to Christ every year, do so through a dream, vision, or being spoken to directly by Jesus Christ.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdVnILalpeo
Perhaps the reason is that the rate of illiteracy is so high. Or because of the scarcity of Bibles because of destruction and banning by Muslims. Or perhaps they are simply seeking the truth more fervently than westerners. Free, first, and second, world countries have the Word of God to guide us in truth.

Mat 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

that wouldnt be fair.

It isn't about what's fair and what isn't fair. It's about a love of truth.
Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

It's up to you.

where is the book explaining in detail the life and personal practices of jesus? that is the gospel. and you know it. the new testament leaves far too much room for free interpretation.

You must be born again. That's all you need to know until you have been, and are filled with the Spirit of God.

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

There is nothing ambiguous or open to interpretation about that. That's why Muhammad's people target for murder even each others innocent men, women and children.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKWBr2CLFjY

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me. 45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2439.0

this is why you have some people that are not muslim but they read the bible and they dont believe jesus is the son of GOD. why?

Nobody could read the Gospel and draw that conclusion.
Mar 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

A blind man could see that your premise is preposterous. NOBODY could actually read the Gospel and deny that it proclaims that Jesus is the Son of God. Simply look at the hundreds of verses regarding the Son of God and His Father.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=611.0

because you can read it and come to your own conclusion about it.

All you have demonstrated is that you never have read it.

nothing is clear in it.

You can see from just the few verses I have quoted that this is a lie.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=611.0
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=610.0

this is why alot of denomination use the so called holy spirit to shake up and down and get some kind of revelation.

You are describing some Pentecostals who often invite unclean spirits into their midst. You can visit that section of the forum to learn more. At least when some Christians differ with the group they are in they split and form another denomination.
When Muslims disagree with each other, they target for murder each others innocent men, women and children.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKWBr2CLFjY

because the knowledge given to them in the bible is shallow. you should pay attention to history sir.

Like the rape, pillage and plunder of Islamic jihad imperialistic conquest all the way up to France and Austria?

because moses had a complete way of life also and so did the others. it was clear to the people of moses time on the way to pray the way to eat the way to dress the way to love and the way to be angry and the way to marriage and all the righteousness was very strait forward and detailed.

Why don't you try to learn a little about Moses before you write about him?
http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/messianicprophecies.html

what happen to the gospel???

Nothing. The Gospel is the same as it was in the 1st century, 7th century, and today.

there isnt even wrong and right mentioned in the gospel.

You just can't distinguish right from wrong because you are compelled to believe that raping female prisoners is right, because Muhammad said it is.
O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war ....

To believe that stealing property from others, and giving 1/5 of it to a self-proclaimed prophet, just like a Mafia Don, is right.
Sura 8:41 And know that out of all the booty that ye may acquire (in war), a fifth share is assigned to Allah,- and to the Messenger...

That beheading innocent Jewish farm boys who had just reached puberty is right.
Tabari VIII:38 "The Messenger of Allah commanded that all of the Jewish men and boys who had reached puberty should be beheaded. Then the Prophet divided the wealth, wives, and children of the Banu Qurayza Jews among the Muslims."

Believing that if you perform acts of the flesh, they will earn you entry into the chicken and wine serving bordello of Muhammad's imagination that he called "paradise", is right.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=264.0

so people do what they want now? no wonder jesus called a group of people lawless.

Even as you reject Yahweh to follow Muhammad and his alter-ego "Allah's" STAND-ALONE 7th century "law" through recycled Arabian moon, sun, star and jinn-demon worship rituals.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1955.0
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj_umrah.htm

my lord has made the two ways clear to me, ......

Since Muhammad's 23 year record is revealed as much the EXACT OPPOSITE of the Gospel, as Muhammad's murder, rape and theft was as OPPOSITE of Jesus Christ, there can be no question that your "lord" is Satan.

...... i hope he helps you. you dont need science and text books and all this crap to prove a religion. you just have to be sincere.

As long as you give yourself over to the spirit of antichrist, through the false prophet Muhammad, you will remain blind while willfully self-imposing ignorance to the origins of Muhammad's stand-alone 7th century religion.