Shining Man With Hurt Hands - Ellis Skolfield (free)

[Pete]

This book is about Mr. Skolfield's over 8,000 hours devoted to hosting an internet chat room helping sufferers of MPD (multiple personality disorder) recover their monominds, through the power of the Holy Spirit.  It offers a view straight into the spirit world that is all around us. This book moved me more deeply than anything I have ever read. One person Skolfield worked with housed over 350 alternate personalities.
Available free in PDF at the link:
http://www.ellisskolfield.net/books

[resistingrexmundi]

WOW...I have only read 3 chapters so far and my eyes are bulging out of my head. The sobering and exciting thing about it is that I had just been discussing the distinction between soul, body, and spirit with a co-worker. I had not been able to read this book because I had yet to update acrobat reader and not until I had sought the scriptures on the distinction between the three was I able to finally get the download to work and read this. It is almost as if God wanted me to confirm this in my own mind before I read it so the material would resonate with me even more powerfully. I STRONGLY URGE EVERYONE WANTING TO UNDERSTAND THE MECHANICS OF THE SPIRITUAL WORLD TO READ THIS. Bare in mind that it is meant as a guide to people suffering from MDS and those who wish to help but it has bolstered my own faith in the spirit and I feel it could do the same for many others.

God bless

[Peter]

WOW...I have only read 3 chapters so far and my eyes are bulging out of my head.

The best is yet to come bro!

The sobering and exciting thing about it is that I had just been discussing the distinction between soul, body, and spirit with a co-worker. I had not been able to read this book because I had yet to update acrobat reader and not until I had sought the scriptures on the distinction between the three was I able to finally get the download to work and read this. It is almost as if God wanted me to confirm this in my own mind before I read it so the material would resonate with me even more powerfully.

I had a similar experience when I was trying to wrap my head around "that man of sin" the different ways he can be manifest in the "temple of God".

I STRONGLY URGE EVERYONE WANTING TO UNDERSTAND THE MECHANICS OF THE SPIRITUAL WORLD TO READ THIS. Bare in mind that it is meant as a guide to people suffering from MDS and those who wish to help but it has bolstered my own faith in the spirit and I feel it could do the same for many others.

God bless

[caracasmc]

WOW!  Unbelievable book.  Couldn't put it down.  Stayed up until 5:30am reading.  Incredible the power of the human mind and spirit.  Unreal.  My mom works in a ministry called Theophostic Prayer.  Has a lot of related principles but I don't have a lot of experience with MPD's.  For monominded people it basically works like this. 

1.  All of our "issues" and present reactions in life stem from lies we have believed in the past. 
2. We are triggered every day by certain events that cause the mind to feel emotions that are bound by lies in memories of the past.
3. Most of these lies are created in traumatic events in life.
4. We focus on a present emotion that has been triggered and ask the Lord Jesus to help us find the lie. 
5. The emotion will lead us to other memories where we have felt it before.
6. Eventually, we will come to, with the help of the Lord's guidance, not the counselors, the base memory where the lie was first believed.
7. The person feels the lie and believes it to be true so it IS true to them.
8. We ask the Lord Jesus to speak His truth to the lie and tell the person how He feels about it.
9. Jesus speaks truth and the lie is broken!
10. The person no longer reacts or is triggered in that area because the lie has been broken and they are healed up in that particular area.


Examples: A young child is abused sexually.  They are told by the perpetrator that it is their fault for being so beautiful.  Immediately the lie is believed and the enemy has a place to operate.  Even though at an older age they may "logically" know it wasn't their fault, inside they will still believe the lie because it's embedded in that memory and in their emotions.  They will no doubt then react according to the lie by dressing ugly, wearing old clothes, being unattractive, etc because they are believing that they were in fact at fault for being too pretty.  They will be triggered in certain situations that remind them of the original event or emotions that were felt.  Eventually they will need to seek healing.  In Theophostic, they would be led by the Lord to the original memory and then He would expose the lie and speak His Truth to them personally.  NONE of this process is guiding by the administrator.  They are simply there to help facilitate and move the session along by asking questions ie; how does that make you feel, what does the Lord want to tell you about that, etc.  The Holy Spirit does the leading and Christ speaks His Truth to destroy the lie and bring healing.  This is what the ministry calls "maintenance free" healing.  You won't have to ACT like you don't feel those things anymore.  You simply WON"T feel them anymore because the lie is gone.

Another less extreme example to see how this affects us all:  A husband screws in a light bulb and his wife "suggests" he do it another way and he reacts in anger.  His present anger is simply a reaction to the trigger that came from his wife's comments.  The anger is there because it is connected to a lie from the past.  Upon going through the theophostic prayer ministry, they would find the root lies and beliefs and hear the Lord's Truth spoken and afterward would not react anymore in those situations because the root is now gone.

I've seen it work in my own life and we have had tremendous success with it in our church with many people.

I found it very interesting to see many similarities.  Some of the more advanced ministers in Theophostic have had similar success with MPD's.  The major difference I seem to find is that Theophostic seems to make it more about the mind.  It's in the mind.  It's very real to be sure, but I don't think they operate in the spiritual dimension of things.  Maybe there is a big difference between ministering to a MPD and a monomind in these types of issues.  It just seems that the Theophostic model is all about having the Lord lead you to memories and uncovering the lies we are believing that are causing our present reactions and behavior whereas Shining Hands seems to be more about another realm entirely. Not just in the mind but in the spiritual realm.  A real place.  Not just real to the person because they believe it is real.  But actually REAL.  Seems like that's the impression I got at least.

Incredibly good read.  Reads like a fiction fantasy novel and is almost hard to believe at times.

[Peter]

Shining Man moved me more deeply than anything I have ever read.
In regard to your post, have you read Bondage Breaker by Neil Anderson?

[Cephyr13]

(post disappeared, then restored from database)

WOW!  Unbelievable book. Couldn't put it down.

I can confirm everything in the book is true. I’ve worked with multiples for around three years now. The process is a bit different than Theophostic Prayer. With the average multiple, you wash their alters off in the Fountain of Life with hyssop soap first. Then, you will have the alter(s) walk up to Jesus and, from their heart, pull out all of the abusive memories, painful emotions that came along with those memories, their old identity, their sins, shame and guilt and hand them over to Jesus. Jesus will place the memories in a memory box and give the alter a key that says, “My grace is sufficient”, with which they can get back into the memory box held by Jesus if they ever need a memory. At this point, they don’t remember ever being abused, nor do they have any of the painful emotions which come along with it. They feel like a million bucks, they say. Their issues,  painful emotions and triggers are instantly resolved.

I then have the person repent of all of their sins. We go through a long list of things that they absolutely must say out loud. Once completely, I have them wash themselves with hyssop soap in the Fountain of Life and get new clothes from Jesus. This is sort of a baptism, in a way, but they will need to be baptized in real life, as well, because many people report that they will be saved, but until they are baptized, they struggle with old sins. However, after baptism, they are not nearly as tempted by old sins again.

Once the alters have their new clothes, they go back to Jesus and ask Him to clean up their hearts and return them to the owners but with new identities as children of God. Then, I have the alters stay with each other in a community at the Fountain of Life with Jesus until we get the rest of the alters there, healed and saved. When all of the alters are healed and saved, they will naturally want to integrate all on their own. If there is fear in them, they won’t want to integrate. If this occurs, I’ll speak with the main alter until they no longer fear integration. Then I’ll have them and their alters repent of fear and hand it over to Jesus from their hearts. Once completely, I have them group hug and I tell them to trust and love and open up to one another fully. This is when they see a big light and within 1-2 minutes, they all integrate together into one person.

Now, the exception to this method is when I encounter a Satanic Ritual Abuse (SRA) victim. Many SRA victims can use this exact same method. However, some of them have certain issues which cause them to get their memories back once they’ve given them away, and so the process doesn’t work properly. Jesus taught me that these people must tell the memories first in order to be released from the secret they’ve kept for so many years.

I do all of my work through the strongest defender/protector alter. Since SRA victims have so many alters, I’ll the main alter what issues, emotions or memories they’ve dealt with in the past day (I work with them a couple of hours every morning). They may say they’re having issues with a memory that came to mind the day before. So, I’ll ask Jesus to bring all of the alters to the Fountain of Life whom are connected to these memories and emotions. Once at the fountain, I have Jesus put all of those alters into a deep sleep. I have all of the protector alters spray those alters down with the Water of Life mixed with hyssop soap and we all command the demons out in Jesus’ name. As their skin turns back to a normal color, I ask Jesus if all their demons are out. Once He confirms this, we stop cleaning them and leave them asleep in the fountain. I then ask the strongest protector to ask Jesus to feed them the abusive memories of all of these alters. The strongest alter won’t have experienced the memories firsthand, so it’s easier for them to see and tell me those memories. Once that’s complete, I take the alters in the fountain through that same process I take the non-SRA victim multiples through. I also have the strongest protector go through that process again too. Everytime the strongest protector has to do this, I have them clean up again, give the memories they just saw to Jesus, and repent of sins with the other alters. This is to ensure the strongest protector doesn’t remember anything about those memories which will affect them negatively or cause them to want to get back into some old sins.

That’s basically the process in a nutshell. In the book, you’ll notice that some alters washed with hyssop soap are still rebellious afterward, and it even takes Jesus coming in and giving the alter an ultimatum before they accept Jesus. As it turns out, if you wash the alters off with Water of Life mixed with hyssop soap, it takes care of that problem. The alters won’t rebel afterward if you do this. It must have something to do with a residue left on their skin after cleaning which must be removed by the hyssop soap. Not sure, to be honest. And the reason I have Jesus put the alters into a deep sleep is, because when the other alters see them struggling while being washed, they’re usually seeing the demons manifest in the alters making them say horrible things and making them seem as if they’re in horrible pain, etc.. This makes the alters very emotional and scared of cleaning up more alters, even though they see the alters feel great afterward. So, putting them to sleep causes there to be no struggles whatsoever and no emotional distress among the other alters watching or helping clean them up.

If you haven’t read The Bondage Breaker by Neil T. Anderson, it is a must read for Theophostic Prayer counselors. I say this, because from your description, they are missing the most important thing which is repentence of the lie and the sin that caused the issue. It is the sin which gives the demons rights to tempt and torment and try to trigger a person. But once a sin is repented of out loud, the demon hears that and knows they have no more rights to be in or around the person anymore, so they leave. You can cast out a demon a hundred times, but if the person hasn’t repented of the sin that allowed that demon to have rights in them, the demon will just keep coming back, and he’ll bring his buddies back with him sometimes, as well, which can make the issues a lot worse.

I did leave out the part about discussing topics with the main alter. That is more of a theophostic approach, but it’s just the first part of the process. I have never heard an abuse victim say they were told they were too beautiful as the reason for their abuse. Usually, the children just automatically assume it’s their fault and it’s a result of something they did or something about them which they cannot change… that they are simply an object of wrath and abuse. Sometimes, the abuser will call them a bad girl, and they will assume they are simply a bad girl by nature. You act as you believe you are, and this can sometimes lead to some lude and crude behavior in some multiple. It’s usually later in life that they make the connection between beauty and abuse. When they realize peole are attracted to beauty, that’s when they start trying to make themselves unattractive.

To solve these issues, I use a line of questions which forces the person to answer with reason and logic. The answers to the questions cause them to figure out and speak with their own lips the truth… that it was not their fault at all. I usually let them come to this conclusion all on their own through their answers to the questions, because if you tell them, logically, why it’s not their fault, it doesn’t have nearly the same effect as them discovering it on their own through answering the questions. Once they understand the truth, then I’ll be able to take their alters whom are linked to those emotions through the process of healing.

Understand that you can convince the main alter of something time and time again, but they will revert back to the lie usually. Why? Because you didn’t get the alters inside cleaned up and healed whom hold that same lie. You see, the alters force their emotions upon the main alter whether they realize it or not. The emotions transfer and are felt by the main alter, and this convinces the main alter of things the alters are feeling, and they believe those are their own emotions when they are not. It’s pretty confusing for the main alter (also called the Host, but incorrectly so). Thus, you have to first correct the lie with the main alter, which causes them to want you to go in and get all of the alters linked to the emotion cleaned up and healed so they no longer feel those irrational emotions due to the lies.

If a person is abused before the age of eight, it is very likely they became multiple as a result, but that’s not always the case. It’s possible you’ve dealt with some multiples and didn’t know it. They’re very very hard to pick out and they’re excellent liars and manipulators so that people don’t find them out. Your method would require that you go through it with each alter in the system so that they all understood the truth about each lie. It would not necessarily fix the issues, though, due to the demon influence that is usually present and binding. If the theophostic prayer counselors will incorporate Neil T. Anderson’s method of repentance into their methods, it’ll make all the difference in the world for the people they help, and the results will be much stronger. Baptism is a great deterrent, as well.

Thankfully, now that Jesus has showed us new ways of speeding up the process, the average multiple can be healed up in a matter of a few hours to a few weeks, and the average SRA victim can be healed up in a matter of a few months or less. Last year, I spent 5 1/2 months, working every single day for a few hours, with an SRA victim to get her 1700+ alters fully integrated. Most of the people I help are SRA victims for some reason. I think God knows I like the challenge and knows it's a good learning experience for me.

One last thing would be this…  if you can get your hands on a copy of Ellis Skolfield’s book Demons in the Church, I would highly recommend it. It is extremely eye opening about some very key issues about sin and headcoverings and what they’re for. The stories you’ll hear in that book from people’s experiences will blow your mind. Pretty interesting stuff. The book is out of print, though, so when you find it, it’s very expensive.

You’re welcome to email me if you have questions: cephyr13@yahoo.com Good luck.

   

[Peter]

Disappeared, then restored from database

Last year, I spent 5 1/2 months, working every single day for a few hours, with an SRA victim to get her 1700+ alters fully integrated.

Zowie! Hey Cephyr, glad you could pop in bro. Certainly a powerful calling.

Most of the people I help are SRA victims for some reason. I think God knows I like the challenge and knows it's a good learning experience for me.

One last thing would be this… if you can get your hands on a copy of Ellis Skolfield’s book Demons in the Church, I would highly recommend it. It is extremely eye opening about some very key issues about sin and headcoverings and what they’re for. The stories you’ll hear in that book from people’s experiences will blow your mind. Pretty interesting stuff. The book is out of print, though, so when you find it, it’s very expensive.
You’re welcome to email me if you have questions: cephyr13@yahoo.com Good luck.

A ministry friend was going to scan it and upload it to a dedicated site, but I don't know what happened to the project.
   

[caracasmc]

Hey Cephyr:  Wow, thanks for the post.  Very interesting stuff.  Can you explain for us newbies to all of this what is really happening inside a MPD.  Are the alters spirits or just fragments of the mind or something else?  I took from the book that it isn't just a mental "thing" or the imagination.  But that it's the actual spiritual realm.  Could you kind of explain that and what's really happening on the inside and in the mind.

I really want to read that book Demons in the church but I live overseas and can't get shipping here.  Is it online anywhere?

[Cephyr13]

Hey Cephyr:  Wow, thanks for the post.  Very interesting stuff.  Can you explain for us newbies to all of this what is really happening inside a MPD.  Are the alters spirits or just fragments of the mind or something else?  I took from the book that it isn't just a mental "thing" or the imagination.  But that it's the actual spiritual realm.  Could you kind of explain that and what's really happening on the inside and in the mind.

I really want to read that book Demons in the church but I live overseas and can't get shipping here.  Is it online anywhere?

That's one book that hasn't been scanned in and placed online to be read yet, so it must be purchased. I'm hoping someone can get it scanned in soon for everyone. Great book. The Bondage Breaker by Neil T. Anderson is a good one to help understand some of the issues in this arena as well and how to deal with them properly.

In regard to the inside world, we can prove it's the spiritual realm from the angels, demons and Jesus which they see inside. Some describe that place as a person's plot of land in the spiritual realm, private and personal only to them. Each of us have that place inside, and it is where our spirit body exists. For instance, as Ellis said in the book, when working with multiples, many times they can see me inside. What they're seeing is my spirit body. Remember, at the end of the book, how Ellis spoke of alters jumping systems? Well, when they see me in their system, it's like Jesus is allowing my spirit body to system jump to help them for a bit. I'm not multiple, of course, but I do have a spirit body, just like anyone else.

From what I gather, thus far, it would seem that when the soul (the mind, will and emotions... the personality) splits, the person's spirit body splits to accomidate this split soul. I believe that's why there are many people inside the system. Because, in the end, when they integrate, you see all of thos bodies go into one single body. At that point, they're just like you and me, and that spirit body in the spiritual world they're using is their one and only spirit body, since all have merged.

To further explain the alters, think of the mind like a large lump of dough. Now, take a chunk of that dough and separate it from the rest of the dough. Now, you have a small lump of dough and then a larger one. That dough that split off of the larger lump is the core. The person gets abused and the core now runs and hides in the spiritual realm, because they were living in a nice, peaceful world which they were used to, and suddenly their safety is taken away and they experience extreme pain and fear. Thus, they must run. They cannot escape in the physical realm, so Jesus allows them to escape into the spiritual realm instead. It's the only other option. The body will die without a soul (mind) in it to regulate involuntary functions like breathing and heartbeat. So, the mind absolutely must split-off. But the remaining mind left over is a new person completely, having absolutely no memories which the core (the birth child) had. The core takes those memories and experiences of life with them inside to the spiritual realm.

Hope this has been helpful. Let me know if I missed answering one of your questions.

So, this new alter, which is the remainder of the mind, now is experiencing life for the first time, and it is awful. They're born into abuse, having known no peace or safety. Which means they are more used to it than the core, whom just left to go inside. So, they can take the abuse just a little bit easier than the core, because they know no different. If, by chance, the abuse is too much for them to handle at some point, they, too, will split and go inside (separate another piece of dough off the larger lump) and you'll have yet another new alter. They must have bodies with which to move around in the spiritual realm, so I assume the spirit body separates to accomidate them. I once had an alter ask Jesus what happens when a multiple dies and only some alters are saved. Assuming we were not fooled and were really talking to Jesus, He said that if the core and/or main are saved, but some of the alters are not, then all alters whom are not saved will cease to exist, and all of the saved alters will integrate together (and then I assume go to be with the Lord). If the core and/or main are not saved, but some of the alters are, He said the saved alters cease to exist upon death, the unsaved alters integrate back into one person again, but unsaved. Who knows what happens at that point... possibly hell, possibly a choice before God about whether they will repent... I don't know for certain.

When an alter comes out, they have a lot of the already learned intelligence the core and other alters have, but with no memories prior to their sudden existence. So, while they're developed intellectually, they are without identity, experience and memory. I think this helps them handle the abuse better. While, yes, they are really separate people, one day, they will integrate again (either through therapy or death) and be a single mind just as they were born. But while dealing with the abuse, each person having to only deal with a part of the abuse works out better. It's my theory that if a kid had to deal with all of their abuse at too early an age, it would drive them literally insane and they would be no way to bring them back. I think it's possible that some people in mental institutions are the result of such things. Having all of that baggage on one's shoulders is not easy if you're too young and only really understand emotions. Your emotional response is extreme irrational fear, self-pity, self-hate and all kinds of other horrible emotions that destroy a child. Splitting it amongst different persons inside is a much more efficient way to manage it, be protected from it, and deal with it later if a therapist understands how to do so.

So, to answer the question about this place not being in the mind, you would look at it differently. It would be many minds living in this spiritual realm. But not just minds...  souls with spirit bodies, living in their spiritual plot of land. I hope that makes more sense. I'll go in depth on this, but this is more in the realm of theory, mind you. I'll do my best to explain it.

Jesus said the kingdom of heaven is inside of us. This realm is what I believe He was speaking of. I believe the realm of "heaven" is the spiritual realm, and the kingdom of heaven is God's part of this place. I believe the dark realms are places in this spiritual realm which Satan has taken. Notice that they must be held in place by a satanic shrine, and only after that shrine has been destroyed does that portion of the spiritual realm become light again and merge back with the main realm which is brighter and more pleasant. What happens in that realm I believe is contingent upon our choices, since that spiritual plot of land has been given to us. Therefore, if you were to see the system of a person whom is a Satanist, you would see one giant dark realm, and maybe a small, hidden place inside where Jesus is at His Fountain of Life (just as Revelation says Jesus' thrown has a stream of living water pouring out from underneath it and flowing down the River of Life) exist. I believe Jesus stays in every person so that they always have the choice to come to Him if they so choose.

And so, even in the darkest of systems, one can always find Jesus if they are multiple. The only difference in a multiple and non-multiple is that we cannot see into the huge dark realm that makes up the non-multiple's inside world, and we cannot see their spirit body in that real either, where as a multiple can see those things. Now, you'll notice in the book that as demons are in the land, they corrupt this inside world and do many bad things with it, and those bad things affect the person's mood and outlook and emotions and all kinds of things. But when one says that prayer of repentance at the back of the Shining Man, the inside world released a lot of those demons from the land and the person feels much better. Why? Because that spiritual plot of land we're given can be affected by demons. I have a feeling that the "house" spoken of by Jesus in regard to demons is speaking of this inside world as being our home. I say that because when Adam and Eve were on earth, they had no building called a home. They had a garden they called home. And since the inside world is symbolic, I think it is our "home" in the spiritual realm, and the demons that come into that land are the demons He warns us about whom will manipulate and torment us.

Notice that once the demons are repented of out loud, they lift from the land and leave and the system inside changes for the better. I think that's the demons being kicked out of the house, like in Jesus' explanation. He's basically saying that we should not go around casting out demons from people, because if we do so, and the person doesn't really commit to God by replacing those empty spaces inside with things of God, then the demons will come back in and fill those voids in which they lived before, but they'll bring their friends this time. So, it would be like the inside world being vacated by demons for a short period of time, but the person not commiting to God and filling their inside world with God's love, grace and protection. Well, that creates a vaccuum, a void...  And something will be sucked back into that void to fill it. We're supposed to fill voids with God, but if we don't, they will be filled with demons instead. Thus, we don't go around commanding demons out of people without knowing that they are truly committed to God and wanting to fill the resulting void with Him. Problems can arise if they're not a committed Christian.

I think in the end, God's gonna' take all of the demons out of all of the spiritual realm in which they've gained ground, and cast them all into the lake of fire (wherever that is) and people that reject God will likely be cast in there, as well, for eternity. But if God went back to the people before the flood and saved them, He may be able to do so with the people in the future whom will be condemned. I don't know, to be honest. I just know that God says it is His will that all repent and be saved, so I assume that means He will do everything in His power to convince everyone to do this. I've heard some really cool stories where people die, have an amazing experience with God, and then come back to life and get saved shortly afterward. Check out the following video. It's just part 1 of 9, but I'm sure you can find part 2-9 on YouTube. VERY interesting show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJo9Bizuufw&feature=PlayList&p=9018A7B45CBA28C1&playnext_from=PL&index=0&playnext=1

[Peter]

Hey Cephyr:  Wow, thanks for the post.  Very interesting stuff.  Can you explain for us newbies to all of this what is really happening inside a MPD.  Are the alters spirits or just fragments of the mind or something else?  I took from the book that it isn't just a mental "thing" or the imagination.  But that it's the actual spiritual realm.  Could you kind of explain that and what's really happening on the inside and in the mind.

I really want to read that book Demons in the church but I live overseas and can't get shipping here.  Is it online anywhere?

Cypher gave you a link to the page on Amazon in his prior post that you might not have noticed. But you have to pay up for it at Amazon because it's considered collectible. You could get lucky if you try hard enough. A friend found 3 copies for $4 each scrounging around the internet.  Here's the link again. They have 6 copies used at Amazon starting at $47
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0962813923/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&qid=1272203482&sr=8-1&condition=used

[Peter]

It's just part 1 of 9, but I'm sure you can find part 2-9 on YouTube. VERY interesting show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJo9Bizuufw&feature=PlayList&p=9018A7B45CBA28C1&playnext_from=PL&index=0&playnext=1

Actually Cephyr that's a playlist and it will continue to play all 9. At least it auto-played the 2nd one right after the first.

[caracasmc]

WOW WOW WOW! Is all I can say.  Thanks for your insights Cephyr!  God is so amazing!

[caracasmc]

Hey Cephyr:  How do they explain going inside?  How do they cross over?  Is it a mental thing in their mind that they see themselves doing or something else? 

[Cephyr13]

Hey Cephyr:  How do they explain going inside?  How do they cross over?  Is it a mental thing in their mind that they see themselves doing or something else? 

It's not so much "crossing over" for them as simply seeing through the eyes of their spirit body. They will be sitting at their computer chatting with me with their physical body's eyes, and yet still being able to see inside with their spiritual body's eyes. So they'll roam around inside telling me what's going on and I'll direct them along, but all the while, they're typing and explaining everything with their physical body.

I think of it like this... some animals, like fish, see two images, completely separate from one nother, and their brain understands that those are two separate images because their eyes are on different sides of their head. The human brain is amazing and adapts as needed. I think it comes naturally to these people, where as to us, it is incomprehensible.

And keep in mind, some of the things I typed in the last post were just the best way I understand what's going on inside. They are the best theory I can construct from what I have seen. I could be wrong. Who knows? That's just the impression I get with all of the information and experience I have at hand.

[caracasmc]

Hey Cephyr:  How do they explain going inside?  How do they cross over?  Is it a mental thing in their mind that they see themselves doing or something else? 

It's not so much "crossing over" for them as simply seeing through the eyes of their spirit body. They will be sitting at their computer chatting with me with their physical body's eyes, and yet still being able to see inside with their spiritual body's eyes. So they'll roam around inside telling me what's going on and I'll direct them along, but all the while, they're typing and explaining everything with their physical body.

I think of it like this... some animals, like fish, see two images, completely separate from one nother, and their brain understands that those are two separate images because their eyes are on different sides of their head. The human brain is amazing and adapts as needed. I think it comes naturally to these people, where as to us, it is incomprehensible.

And keep in mind, some of the things I typed in the last post were just the best way I understand what's going on inside. They are the best theory I can construct from what I have seen. I could be wrong. Who knows? That's just the impression I get with all of the information and experience I have at hand.

Very interesting.  I forgot about that fact.  They have to be looking at the computer while they see inside.  So, they can do it both at the same time.  It almost sounds like fantasy but what mortal mind can comprehend the things of God?

In your experience, does every multiple see things of the spirit the exact same way thus proving it IS NOT simply an individuals imagination?  Is jesus always the same, do they angels always look the same, etc?  What other things do they always see the same in that realm?

Also, just as a caution.  You mentioned in a previous post that you once had an alter ask Jesus a question for you.  I think that is a dangerous thing to do and borders on divination (using another person as a medium to consult God).  I'd be very careful about that.  Maybe you know this already but I just thought I'd mention it.  Ellis specifically condemns that in his book because the bible speaks against it.

Thanks so much for all your comments and forgive my many questions.  I have so many.  Thanks for taking the time to explain so many things.  Keep it coming! Be blessed!

[Cephyr13]

Very interesting.  I forgot about that fact.  They have to be looking at the computer while they see inside.  So, they can do it both at the same time.  It almost sounds like fantasy but what mortal mind can comprehend the things of God?

You know, in the Bible, when a prophet says he was "in the spirit" and then tells about a prophecy he sees? It's my opinion that the prophet means that God switched them from seeing through their physical body's eyes to seeing through their spirit body's eyes, suddenly, and since their spirit body is in the spiritual world, that is where God is showing them the prophecies: heaven. This is why they say they were "in the spirit", meaning in their spirit body.

In your experience, does every multiple see things of the spirit the exact same way thus proving it IS NOT simply an individuals imagination?  Is jesus always the same, do they angels always look the same, etc?  What other things do they always see the same in that realm?

Correct. All multiples see the same things inside. They see a natural world, devoid of industrialization such as buildings and roads and such. They may have a house inside or a castle or something like that. But the rest is natural, like rivers and forests and valleys. They all see the angels, if they explore their system enough. The angels always have the same number of wings: 2, 4 or 6. The 2 winged angels are always average side with clothes emminating light and are typically like protective messenger angels. The 4 winged angels are always massive warrior angels with a fiery sword and sometimes lightning coming from their wings. The 6 winged angels are always small and golden, typically healing angels. The Fountain of Life is always in a system and Jesus is always there, even when we don't tell the multiple that it is supposed to be there. Thus, it is not suggestion which is causing them to see these things. Also, I can pray for light, to myself, in my head, and they will see a light appear in their system and yet I never told them I prayed anything. It's pretty easy to confirm it's the spiritual realm, really.

Also, just as a caution.  You mentioned in a previous post that you once had an alter ask Jesus a question for you.  I think that is a dangerous thing to do and borders on divination (using another person as a medium to consult God).  I'd be very careful about that.  Maybe you know this already but I just thought I'd mention it.  Ellis specifically condemns that in his book because the bible speaks against it.

You'll find that you must have the alters ask many questions of Jesus. But the questions always pertain to the multiple and are about how to help heal the multiple. That's why I asked the question I did. If I ask something that is for me personally, Jesus will not answer. He will not be a part of sinning. So, there's never any danger of committing a sin directly with Him because He simply cannot do so. lol I reasoned that one out before I tested it. I'm pretty careful not to do anything that's sinful or selfish when helping these people. And I like to prove things out, such as this.

Thanks so much for all your comments and forgive my many questions.  I have so many.  Thanks for taking the time to explain so many things.  Keep it coming! Be blessed!

No problem.

[caracasmc]

Ahh...that makes sense regarding the questions being asked for the multiple and not for you.  I was wondering about that very thing.  Would Jesus have answered you if it was for yourself or something.  Confirms my suspicion.  Jesus is so amazing!

For my next question....hahahaha....
I was reading on some different websites people with supposed deliverance ministries and experience with MPD.  Several that I saw say that alters are demonic.  They say that they cast them out and they leave and the person in the end of the deliverance is healed and whole.  According to Ellis, they are NOT demons.  An alter can potentially be a demon or simply have a demon but in his experience all alters are not demons.  These people seem to experience all alters being demons.  Is there anyway to explain that?  What has your experience been?

[Cephyr13]

Ahh...that makes sense regarding the questions being asked for the multiple and not for you.  I was wondering about that very thing.  Would Jesus have answered you if it was for yourself or something.  Confirms my suspicion.  Jesus is so amazing!

For my next question....hahahaha....
I was reading on some different websites people with supposed deliverance ministries and experience with MPD.  Several that I saw say that alters are demonic.  They say that they cast them out and they leave and the person in the end of the deliverance is healed and whole.  According to Ellis, they are NOT demons.  An alter can potentially be a demon or simply have a demon but in his experience all alters are not demons.  These people seem to experience all alters being demons.  Is there anyway to explain that?  What has your experience been?

If deliverance ministry works on a person, then they are not multiple. Instead, they are a form of schizophrenia (some forms of schizophrenia are simple demon possession). I've heard of instances where all of the "alters" are not alters at all, but rather, are demons posing as alters, and the person is simply schizophrenic, not multiple. All it takes is a simple repentance of all of one's sins and their ancestors' sins and the demons must leave. Pretty simple stuff. If a person is multiple and they go through deliverance ministry and they claim it worked, they are just lying to themself and everyone else about the alters being gone. It's as simple as that. In The Shining Man, Ellis says that one lady worked with him a few times, then went to church and they told her the alters were demons, and so she just claimed there were no alters anymore and she was healed. Why? Because she believed it was demonic and didn't want to be cast out by everyone. She just wanted to be normal and accepted so badly that she didn't want to acknowledge that there were alters inside of her. Happens a lot.

[caracasmc]

Kind of what I thought.  I makes no sense that God would create a way for someone to cope with pain by escaping and at the same time cause that to be a demonization.  Much more likely that it is in fact an alter of the person that can be demonized or copycatted by a demon. 

I wonder why the Lord requires such a process in order for a multiple to get healed.  Why can't we just say, "In Jesus name, all alters merge and be healed completely!"  That would be so much easier!  And God is totally capable and able to do it.  I wonder why it doesn't work that way?

[Peter]

Kind of what I thought.  I makes no sense that God would create a way for someone to cope with pain by escaping and at the same time cause that to be a demonization.  Much more likely that it is in fact an alter of the person that can be demonized or copycatted by a demon.  

I wonder why the Lord requires such a process in order for a multiple to get healed.  Why can't we just say, "In Jesus name, all alters merge and be healed completely!"  That would be so much easier!  And God is totally capable and able to do it.  I wonder why it doesn't work that way?

Some unrelated sage wisdom from a nearly illiterate farmhand I once new in regard to "if only". (to be added onto somebody else's "if only.....")
".... and if only frogs had wings, they wouldn't bump their butts when they jumped!"

[Cephyr13]

I wonder why the Lord requires such a process in order for a multiple to get healed.  Why can't we just say, "In Jesus name, all alters merge and be healed completely!"  That would be so much easier!  And God is totally capable and able to do it.  I wonder why it doesn't work that way?

You believe the Lord could do that? Who says? Take free-will for instance... God cannot infringe upon our God-given free-will (Genesis 1:26-28). For a person to trust completely in Jesus to take all of that stuff away would be quite impressive, since people like this have trust and fear issues. They trust hardly anyone, and even those they do trust, they don't actually fully trust them. So, for God to heal them, He would have to do so against their free-will, because fear and faith are opposites. If a person has faith in God to protect them, they fear nothing. But if a person fears, it means they do not have faith in God to protect them. Thus, when fear exists, it hampers or prevents God from helping a person in the way He would like. This is why He kept saying, "Do not fear, I am with you" in the Old Testament. Fear is our biggest problem.

Also, if you work through the "why" behind issues, people will have a working understanding of the "why" and it will build character and knowledge which will not only help them not to get into situations which might cause those issues again, but they can also share the firsthand experience with others to help them as well. The human mind is an extremely complex (and yet simple, as well) machine. To just snap His fingers and fix it teaches a person nothing. But to understand how one got to that point and how to heal from it is far more valuable than just having the problem fixed instantly.

[caracasmc]

I wonder why the Lord requires such a process in order for a multiple to get healed.  Why can't we just say, "In Jesus name, all alters merge and be healed completely!"  That would be so much easier!  And God is totally capable and able to do it.  I wonder why it doesn't work that way?

You believe the Lord could do that? Who says? Take free-will for instance... God cannot infringe upon our God-given free-will (Genesis 1:26-28). For a person to trust completely in Jesus to take all of that stuff away would be quite impressive, since people like this have trust and fear issues. They trust hardly anyone, and even those they do trust, they don't actually fully trust them. So, for God to heal them, He would have to do so against their free-will, because fear and faith are opposites. If a person has faith in God to protect them, they fear nothing. But if a person fears, it means they do not have faith in God to protect them. Thus, when fear exists, it hampers or prevents God from helping a person in the way He would like. This is why He kept saying, "Do not fear, I am with you" in the Old Testament. Fear is our biggest problem.

Also, if you work through the "why" behind issues, people will have a working understanding of the "why" and it will build character and knowledge which will not only help them not to get into situations which might cause those issues again, but they can also share the firsthand experience with others to help them as well. The human mind is an extremely complex (and yet simple, as well) machine. To just snap His fingers and fix it teaches a person nothing. But to understand how one got to that point and how to heal from it is far more valuable than just having the problem fixed instantly.

Yea. Makes sense. 

Ellis mentioned something about some multiples that have trouble or don't know how yet to go "inside".  How do they learn to go inside?  What if they can't do it at first?  Do you teach them how or tell them how to do it or is it natural for them?

[Cephyr13]

Ellis mentioned something about some multiples that have trouble or don't know how yet to go "inside".  How do they learn to go inside?  What if they can't do it at first?  Do you teach them how or tell them how to do it or is it natural for them?

Ellis shows how to do it in the book. He asks them to tell him what they see inside, sort of with their mind's eye, in a sense, and they'll see their inside world. I tell them to look for a dark room with a door in it. They usually figure out how to see it and move in that world pretty quickly.

[annazakiya]

I've also read this book, did so about a year ago. I read it all in one night because I could not stop reading.

It's an amazing account which really opened my eyes to the truth.

[Peter]

bump