Chat with Michael2 (youtube user ID hillbillybushcraft)

[Michael2]

Israel. The word of God says we are to pray for the peace of Jerusalem and I do. I have answered your question and am getting tired of answering it. This is NOT about Israel! Nor Judah. My problem is with the fake Jews and fasle Zionism. Which I don't think you will understand until Jerusalem is the Capitol of the World! Which it will be soon.

Now YOU follow the forum rule and answer the video I linked!

[Peter]

Israel. The word of God says we are to pray for the peace of Jerusalem and I do. I have answered your question and am getting tired of answering it. This is NOT about Israel! Nor Judah. My problem is with the fake Jews and fasle Zionism.

Then skip the fake and unregernerate Jews. No need to mention them again.
There is no such thing as fake Zionism. You are either for a homeland for the Jews or you are against it.

Daniel pinned the Jews declaration of their statehood in 1948, and to their city 1967, in two parallel problems that span 2500 years.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/mathematical_precision_of_prophecy.htm

Which I don't think you will understand until Jerusalem is the Capitol of the World! Which it will be soon.

Now there's a real corker! I gotta repeat it! Israel - the capitol of the world!
So your solution to this inevitable turn of events then, would be a preemptive genocide of Jews and maybe driving them into the sea=, like Ahmadenijhad wants?
And let the Muslims turn Israel into another wife beating, child doing, female circumcising, Christian beheading Islamic terror slave state?
Frankly, if Israel were and capitol of the world, and running the U.S. for example, at least maybe the spineless politicians selling out of future generations in the U.S. to Islam and sharia law would be abated!
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=58.0

[Michael2]

Israel. The word of God says we are to pray for the peace of Jerusalem and I do. I have answered your question and am getting tired of answering it. This is NOT about Israel! Nor Judah. My problem is with the fake Jews and fasle Zionism.

Then skip the fake and unregernerate Jews. No need to mention them again.
There is no such thing as fake Zionism. You are either for a homeland for the Jews or you are against it.

Only because you don't want to recognize the fake Jew. The ones that hijacked the name of Judaism.  I posted about them earlier.

I agree with defining terms. But I think we should back up another step and define "Jew"
I hope you are a Strong's user
OT Jew #3064 desc. of Judah Judaite
NT Jew # 2453 From #2448 a country Judean Belonging to Jehudah
#2448 Judah or of place in Palestine.
Not all are of the tribe of Judah.
Also according to Deut 5 trough 7 Israel is God' chosen people.
That is.. All 12 tribes. Not one.
As far as zionism
 I am not sure we will agree on a definition. Because your view and my view are different. That is a lot of this debate.
False Zionism is the final beast system. They are the NWO.
?? Zionism of old we agree on but today we do not.

Remeber that Post You never gave your opinion of what a "Jew" is.

Which I don't think you will understand until Jerusalem is the Capitol of the World! Which it will be soon.

Now there's a real corker!
So your solution then would be genocide of Jews, and driving them into the sea, like Ahmadenijhad?

Who said anything about Genocide about anybody?? Would You PLEASE point out where I said that. I think you must read my post like you read the Bible! You just hear and understand what you want to.

[Michael2]

if Israel were and capitol of the world, and running the U.S. for example, at least maybe the spineless politicians selling out of future generations in the U.S. to Islam and sharia law would be abated!

Your joking right?? Did you watch the video?
Do you have any Idea what the four hidden Dynasties are? Who do you think controls our monitory system. And with that our Government? How about our media??
No I suppose you don't.
Here is another of YOUR brethren. The Fakes that you say don't exist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX9Tk2TMA6Q&feature=related
LOL get your head out of the sand.
You are completely diluted because of the name Israel. They are not ALL who you think they are. Nor will those in particular EVER care about YOU.

[Michael2]

Now there's a real corker! I gotta repeat it! Israel - the capitol of the world!

Let me Help You.     United Nations The United Nations recommends that Jerusalem be placed under a special international regime, a corpus separatum, but envisions the city eventually becoming the capital of two states, Israel and Palestine.[14]

The UNGA has stated that the international community, through the United Nations has a legitimate interest, regarding the protection of Jerusalem's unique spiritual, religious and cultural dimensions.[15] Its position on the question of Jerusalem is based upon General Assembly resolution 181 (II) November 29, 1947, which provides for the full territorial internationalisation of Jerusalem: "The City of Jerusalem shall be established as a corpus separatum under a special international regime and shall be administered by the United Nations."[16] This position was restated in the wake of the 1948 Arab–Israeli War in UN General Assembly Resolution 303(IV) of 1949. According to a 1979 report prepared for and under the guidance of the Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People, it would appear that the UN has maintained that until the final status of the city is agreed by the parties involved, the legal status of the city remains a corpus separatum.[17]

The United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) does not recognise Israel's proclamation of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, which is, for example, reflected in the wording of General Assembly Resolution 63/30 of 2009 which states that "any actions taken by Israel, the occupying Power, to impose its laws, jurisdiction and administration on the Holy City of Jerusalem are illegal and therefore null and void and have no validity whatsoever, and calls upon Israel to cease all such illegal and unilateral measures."[15]

A total of six UN Security Council resolutions on Israel have denounced or declared invalid Israel's control of the city, including UNSC resolution 478 which affirmed that the enactment of the 1980 Basic Jerusalem Law declaring unified Jerusalem as Israel's "eternal and indivisible" capital, was a violation of international law. The resolution advised member states to withdraw their diplomatic representation from the city.

Do I need to quote Paul again??

[Peter]

Israel. The word of God says we are to pray for the peace of Jerusalem and I do. I have answered your question and am getting tired of answering it. This is NOT about Israel! Nor Judah. My problem is with the fake Jews and fasle Zionism.

Then skip the fake and unregernerate Jews. No need to mention them again.
There is no such thing as fake Zionism. You are either for a homeland for the Jews or you are against it.

Only because you don't want to recognize the fake Jew. The ones that hijacked the name of Judaism.  I posted about them earlier.

I agree with defining terms. But I think we should back up another step and define "Jew"
I hope you are a Strong's user
OT Jew #3064 desc. of Judah Judaite
NT Jew # 2453 From #2448 a country Judean Belonging to Jehudah
#2448 Judah or of place in Palestine.
Not all are of the tribe of Judah.
Also according to Deut 5 trough 7 Israel is God' chosen people.
That is.. All 12 tribes. Not one.
As far as zionism
 I am not sure we will agree on a definition. Because your view and my view are different. That is a lot of this debate.
False Zionism is the final beast system. They are the NWO.
?? Zionism of old we agree on but today we do not.

Remeber that Post You never gave your opinion of what a "Jew" is.

Which I don't think you will understand until Jerusalem is the Capitol of the World! Which it will be soon.

Now there's a real corker!
So your solution then would be genocide of Jews, and driving them into the sea, like Ahmadenijhad?

Who said anything about Genocide about anybody?? Would You PLEASE point out where I said that. I think you must read my post like you read the Bible! You just hear and understand what you want to.

Let me help you out. When someone puts the little thing that looks like this ? after a sentence that indicates that it is a question. So I was asking if that would be your solution.

So what would your solution be for all those "fake" Jews?



Maybe ship them off to Siberia so that Muhammadan majority elected terrorist organization Hamas can take over Israel, and turn it into another sharia law ruled, female circumcising, child doing, wife beating, Christian beheading, Islamist terror slave state so they can all live happily ever after.

[Michael2]

Very simply I can only tell you like this!
Mat 13:24Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: 25But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. 26But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. 27So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? 28He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? 29But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

We are to leave them alone. They will be dealt with at harvest. It is not our place. Just in case you don't understand the parable the Fake Jew are the tares.
They are the False Zionist. If you understood that you would understand what 666 really is.

[Peter]

Do I need to quote Paul again??

I doubt that would do you any good since it didn't help you understand where the temple of God is (that the man of sin sitteth in) the last time.

Am I supposed to be surprised that a bunch of anti-semitic pro-Islam Marxists at the U.N. don't recognize the Land that Israel won, when their neighbors threatened them, and so they kicked their butts to secure their citizenry from attack?

And now you copy and paste a bunch of wikipedia rather than answer the posts? We don't need you larding this thread with loads of dung to bury what you haven't answered.
Why don't you try these?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3128.msg12931#msg12931
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3128.msg12932#msg12932
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3128.msg12934#msg12934

I tried to answer all your questions, but when my questions deconstructed your eschatology you pouted.  http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3128.msg12916#msg12916
And tried to excuse away your errors, like in the following post.

[Peter]

Now you said it was the abomination that Jesus said was spoken of by the prophet Daniel, yet Daniel's abomination is an "it" that "stands" in the holy place.
But your antichrist abomination "sitteth" in the temple of God.
That is what Marturian was pointing out.

Yes and I explained it. Some of this has to do with translation. I am a KJ man but you guys do know it is a translation right?
Many scholars translated Mat24 HE! Standing where HE ought not!

Only a "scholar" compromised by your/John Darby's futurist eschatology ("oh i meant the other temple of God!" "...you know, the rebuilt temple of God that gets desolated by that man of sin !").
There are a bunch of bible versions to check it in here.
http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm

[Peter]

Why is it you avoid all the threads that detail all of the reprobate actions of the so-called "Palestinians"?
For that matter I don't remember you commenting on any of them that concerned your fellow anti-zionists either.

[Michael2]

LOL Who's Pouting???
No you don't answer anything. You tell me what Skolfeild said. What you know comes from there.
I answered your question about Israel.

And why is it you avoid all the threads that detail all of the reprobate actions of the so-called "Palestinians"?

As far as Palestinians. I don't care if it is a Palestinian or American or  Jew or Gentile or Israel or even if they call themselves a Christian. If they are reprobate then you should already know the Answer. I don't know exactly what it is you are referring to though. This thread is quite long and there has been a lot said. Or are you just referring to them in general. As in on youtube??
As far as the wiki paste. I put that there because what was said about Jerusalem being an International city (capitol of the world) like I said. And that was the plan from the beginning. What was actually said about Jerusalem is it would belong to the world. Should you be surprised?? Not if you know the truth.

I doubt that would do you any good since it didn't help you understand where the temple of God is (that the man of sin sitteth in) the last time.

I know you don't understand this. But he is referring to a PHYSICAL place. Yes I understand quite well.

[Peter]

I doubt that would do you any good since it didn't help you understand where the temple of God is (that the man of sin sitteth in) the last time.

I know you don't understand this. But he is referring to a PHYSICAL place. Yes I understand quite well.

How could a physical temple be sanctified, so that it could then be desolated?

[Michael2]

I doubt that would do you any good since it didn't help you understand where the temple of God is (that the man of sin sitteth in) the last time.

I know you don't understand this. But he is referring to a PHYSICAL place. Yes I understand quite well.

How could a physical temple be sanctified, so that it could then be desolated?

If I understand your question correctly.
I don't know that it is sanctified. But The Anti-Christ will bring about the desolation.
Jesus only says the Holy Place. Which it is!
Paul says sit in the temple of God. I have done a study on this and in the Greek it is Naos The same as Mat 23:16 It is an actual Temple building consisting of the Holy Place and Holy of Holies. Which is diferent from hieron which is the whole of the temple courts. But it is translated Temple in the bible also.
We both can only go by what the word says and that is what it says.

[Michael2]

Also Mat 24:15  The Holy Place is comparible to Mat 4:5 the Pinnacle. Pinnacle = the wing.. Greek= pterugion used of that part of the Temple or Holy place where the abomination of desolation is to stand according to Theodotion a fourth reviser of the Septuagint about the middle of the century! 

[Peter]

I doubt that would do you any good since it didn't help you understand where the temple of God is (that the man of sin sitteth in) the last time.

I know you don't understand this. But he is referring to a PHYSICAL place. Yes I understand quite well.

How could a physical temple be sanctified, so that it could then be desolated?

If I understand your question correctly.
I don't know that it is sanctified. But The Anti-Christ will bring about the desolation.
Jesus only says the Holy Place.

When I used the term "borderline blasphemy", it was perhaps too conservative of a description, because now you tacitly admit you should have known better.
It is only your false doctrine that leads you to conclude that a physical temple could be sanctified, but there is only one temple in the Christian era, and that is the one that Jesus built. Regardless of what the ambitions of some still-sovereignly blinded Jews may be, it is absolutely inexcusable for a Christian, because the temple was removed to illuminate THE WAY which IS Jesus Christ.

Hbr 8:13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.

It is only false doctrine that forces you to conclude such an abomination as a sanctified physical temple, which would be a restoration of the old covenant.

Which it is!

It is my brethren and I.

1Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Paul says sit in the temple of God.

And there is only one temple in the Christian era, and the body of Christ is it. Therefore we are to look for that "man of sin" in the the body of Christ. Your failure to do so, may well be part of the reason you are anticipating the arrival of a boogieman instead of expecting my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ's return.

To suggest that there needed to be another temple would be to suggest that the price Jesus paid on the cross is incomplete and unfinished.

Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

I have done a study on this and in the Greek it is Naos The same as Mat 23:16 It is an actual Temple building consisting of the Holy Place and Holy of Holies.

If you have studied it then you know that "naos" is also the term used for the temple that Christians are. It is the spiritual aspect of the physical temple.

""Holy of Holies" is always translated as "Most Holy Place". This is in keeping with the intention of the Hebrew idiom to express the utmost degree of holiness."

That is consistent with it's use in Matt 23 that refers to swearing an oath in the "utmost degree of holiness", rather than a physical building.
Since you studied the terms you should know that if a physical temple had been meant in 2Thessalonians the term "hieron" would have been used.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/temple_of_god.htm

But far more than that you should have known better because Christians ARE the temple. But you blaspheme the true tabernacle of God solely because of your unique heretical one-off doctrine.

Hbr 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; 2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/temple_of_god.htm

Which is diferent from hieron which is the whole of the temple courts. But it is translated Temple in the bible also.
We both can only go by what the word says and that is what it says.

If you were going by what the Word says you wouldn't have turned it into a lie to fit an abominably false doctrine, that suggests that Jesus sacrifice was so much of a failure, was so incomplete, that another temple would need to be sanctified.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
Maybe this will help you realize that it is your filthy abominable doctrine, that is responsible for your railing against the Israeli people, and joining team Hamas.
Make no mistake. There are only two sides in that conflict. The only other option is abstaining from having opinion, but it's obviously far too late for you to cop to that plea.

[Peter]

Please do not read this post until you have read the prior post as it is a follow-up.

So sad that it has made you so blind to the suffering of our brothers and sisters around the world, that you took sides with their oppressors.
www.beholdthebeast.com/great_tribulation.htm

The only thing that is sad is if their are more that believe like you do! And I have told you before about accusing. Lets not forget who is the accuser. It would appear you get mad because you don't understand and just accuse. I didn't take sides with any other than Christ!
Like I have said. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. This means ALL.

It's certainly no surprise that you cannot discern the difference between those antichrists that follow the false prophet Muhammad and satan's Quran - that prostrate themselves 5 times a day toward the Quraish pagan's black stone idol in Mecca - and my brethren of the "good olive tree" (that I am grafted into), and of the "mystery" of the "spirit of slumber" God gave some faithful, Old Testament believing, Jews.
http://www.israelinbibleprophecy.com/spirit_of_slumber.htm

And let me ask you! What about the Christian Palestinians?? What of them. Not the Muslims but the Christians? Should we just disregard those because they do not say they are Jews?

It's anti-Zionists like you, as well the antichrist anti-Semites that you run with, that bear the responsibility for the ever-increasing demise of those Christians at the hand of your team. Team Hamas. Team Islam. Team Nazi. Team KKK.
Here's the future YOU created for those Christians that you pay lip service to pretending to bleed for, when those same Christians enjoyed protection under Israeli rule that you are systematically destroying:

"'Christians must accept Islamic rule'
Militant leader in Gaza says missionaries will be 'dealt with harshly,' demands women wear headscarfs.
Christians can only continue living safely in the Gaza Strip if they accept Islamic law, including a ban on alcohol and on women roaming publicly without proper head coverings, an Islamist militant leader in Gaza told WND in an exclusive interview."
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3414753,00.html

Your so-called Palestinians firebombing Christian homes.
http://www.sullivan-county.com/id2/index5.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaYmPmoIpS8&feature=player_embedded#

[Peter]

And my mistake. I do not like Scofeild at all .......

What you claim you "do not like" is betrayed by your professing of futurist doctrine, that John Darby initiated in the English "Plymouth Brethren", and C.I. Scofield's annotated bible advanced in the 20th century U.S. "church".
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/end_time_myth.htm

Like your hollow objections to being recognized as taking the side of Hamas, the Nazis, skinheads, and the KKK & David Duke, even as you demonize Zionism right alongside them.
There are TWO DISTINCT SIDES.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2984.0

Your claim of disliking the futurist doctrine that you simultaneously hold, smacks of Muslims that are deceived into believing they believe in Jesus, when the reality is perfectly polar, since they profess the exact opposite of the whole subject of the Gospel.

...... and I thought that is what you were referring to. So you have based your entire way of thinking on ONE mans BOOK which is Skolfeild?

No I have spent several years in full-time study, far beyond his book, including trying and testing his study in discussion with those that hold other eschatologies (though not as much time with heretics that hold unique, personal, one-off doctrines). The website links I have offered you (that are listed at the very bottom under this post) are the continuing result of that still-running study.
The bible advises us to:

Job 8:8 For enquire, I pray thee, of the former age, and prepare thyself to the search of their fathers: 9(For we [are but of] yesterday, and know nothing, because our days upon earth [are] a shadow:)

Here is a list of a few of the people that support the basis of Skolfield's book, which is the day-year language of prophecy, within the traditional continuous-historic context.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/traditional_framework.htm

Augustine (AD 430)
Nahawendi (Jewish) (AD 8-9th century)
Jehoram (AD 10th century)
Abraham bar Hiyya (Jewish) (AD 1136)
Arnold of Villanova AD (1292)
Tichonius (AD 380)
Joachim of Floris (AD 1202)
John Wycliffe (AD c.1379)
Nicholas of Cusa (AD c.1452)
Martin Luther (AD 1522)
Phillip Melanchthon (AD 1543)
Johan Funck (AD 1558)
James I of England (AD 1600)
Sir Isaac Newton (AD 1727)

Quoting from "The False Prophet": "In 1569, the great Anabaptist theologian, Thieleman van Braght, wrote the following in Martyrs Mirror, pages 21-24: 'a thousand two hundred and threescore days, which reckoned according to prophetic language means as many years… let it be reckoned as it may, say we, as a very long period of time.' 

Two hundred years later, Matthew Henry, in his 'Commentary of the Whole Bible', came to the same conclusion (Vol VI, page 1157 column 1, para. 2):  "….if the beginning of that interval could be ascertained, this number of prophetic days, taking a day for a year, would give us a prospect of when the end might be."

And incidental to my personal study: Isaac Newton - "She is nourished by the merchants of the earth, three times or years and an half, or 42 months, or 1260 days: and in these Prophecies days are put for years." - Observations Upon the Prophecies of Daniel, and the Apocalypse of St.a John - Chapter 3

Jamison, Faucett & Brown commentary - "..... in the wilderness 'a thousand two hundred and threescore days.' In the wider sense, we may either adopt the year-day theory of 1260 years..."

While folks were sharp enough to understand this "language" of prophecy back then, they were also sharp enough to know they couldn't see the fulfillment of those day-year problems assigned by scripture, but they did recognize what the future would hold:

http://www.beholdthebeast.com/mathematical_precision_of_prophecy.htm#isaac_newton
Isaac Newton: "All which is as much as to say, that these Prophecies of Daniel and John should not be understood till the time of the end: .... But in the very end, the Prophecy should be so far interpreted as to convince many."

http://www.beholdthebeast.com/mathematical_precision_of_prophecy.htm#matthew_henry
Matthew Henry: "VI. That this prophecy of those times, though sealed up now, would be of great use to those that should live then, v. 4. Daniel must now shut up the words and seal the book....but he must keep it safely, as a treasure of great value, laid up for the ages to come, to whom it would be of great service; for many shall then run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. Then this hidden treasure shall be opened, and many shall search into it, and dig for the knowledge of it, as for silver."

So while Isaac Newton and Matthew Henry knew they couldn't see it in their times, they recognized that those of later times would be able to see the wonderful fulfillment of the math problems we were assigned.

Like Daniel's two "times" problems that run in perfect parallel, over the span of 2500 years, confirming the dates of 1948 when Yahweh's people were restored to their land, and 1967 when they were restored to their city, heralding the beginning of what Daniel's prophecy labeled the "time of the end".
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/mathematical_precision_of_prophecy.htm

Mathematics confirming, what is further confirmed by the texts of those passages, as well as those of the former age. Quite a blessing to have so much confirmation.

Yet in spite of the profound fulfillment of these and several other problems, even after witnessing their perfect fulfillment, folks will turn their heads and stomp off, clutching their precious (15th to) 20th century heresies of preterism and futurism held tightly to their chests. The Berean spirit is completely gone, from a vast volume of the body of Christ, that is lorded over by nicolaitians.

WOW Like I said I will trust the Lord ........

I understand that might be what you think you do, but it's difficult to see how your insistence on the other temple of God, bears it out. Let's investigate your claim a little further.

Job 8:8 For enquire, I pray thee, of the former age, and prepare thyself to the search of their fathers: 9(For we [are but of] yesterday, and know nothing, because our days upon earth [are] a shadow:)

1. Please share with us where futurist doctrine is to be found in any church, prior to the mid-19th century when John Nelson Darby penned futurist eschatology, that you hold.
2. Then please share with us which of the fathers of the former age share your personal unique eschatology (or as you put it "Here is part of the big secret.") and whether there is anyone, anywhere, even today, that shares it with you, and if so just who they are.

......... you keep your book! But thank You for the clarification.

[Michael2]

When I used the term "borderline blasphemy", it was perhaps too conservative of a description, because now you tacitly admit you should have known better.
It is only your false doctrine that leads you to conclude that a physical temple could be sanctified, but there is only one temple in the Christian era, and that is the one that Jesus built. Regardless of what the ambitions of some still-sovereignly blinded Jews may be, it is absolutely inexcusable for a Christian, because the temple was removed to illuminate THE WAY which IS Jesus Christ.

Hbr 8:13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.

It is only false doctrine that forces you to conclude such an abomination as a sanctified physical temple, which would be a restoration of the old covenant.

LOL Pete your a work all right. I have never had someone that is suppose to be "Christian" try and insult me as much as you. You wouldn't know the truth if it DID smack you in the face. Do you think Jesus and Paul was telling you that Satan or Muhammad was going to stand in your heart?? You sound like a disbeliever to me! LOL It is more than obvious that you can't dicern between physical and spiritual. Again YES the Church is the body of Christ. But the Anti Christ is physically going to come and he will stand in the Holy Place Just like Jesus said he would. Now if you want to talk about some Blasphemy lets talk about how you are denying the very words of Christ! Maybe Jesus should ok'ed it with you first huh?

Quote from: Michael2 on March 18, 2012, 04:48:04 PM

    Which it is!


It is my brethren and I.

1Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

I usually don't give English lessons like you did to me. But LOL I couldn't resist. Remember the smart alec comment you made about the ? following a sentence. I also made the comment about reading comprehension skills which you have blatantly displayed you have none of.  Look up at my Statement again. Yeah I didn't ask you a question I made a statement! That ended with this !! Get it!

And there is only one temple in the Christian era, and the body of Christ is it. Therefore we are to look for that "man of sin" in the the body of Christ. Your failure to do so, may well be part of the reason you are anticipating the arrival of a boogieman instead of expecting my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ's return.

To suggest that there needed to be another temple would be to suggest that the price Jesus paid on the cross is incomplete and unfinished.

Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

I don't know if your aware of this but the "Jews" still sacrifice. THEY are the ones that want to build the temple. Which I already said that. Also I do expect the return of Jesus but I expect it in the time line that Jesus himself gave! Big difference.

If you have studied it then you know that "naos" is also the term used for the temple that Christians are. It is the spiritual aspect of the physical temple.

LOL need I say more!! YES I know this, but what is funny and I would like to point out is YOU just confirmed what I said "It is the spiritual aspect of the physical temple." Out of your own mouth! I hope your paying attention this time. Like I said earlier Paul is speaking spiritual LOL

You should be ashamed of yourself.
Maybe this will help you realize that it is your filthy abominable doctrine, that is responsible for your railing against the Israeli people, and joining team Hamas.
Make no mistake. There are only two sides in that conflict. The only other option is abstaining from having opinion, but it's obviously far too late for you to cop to that plea.

I would be ashamed if I had a mouth like YOU. And You say you are Christian? Railing against the Israeli People?? Being dishonest is a sin!

    And let me ask you! What about the Christian Palestinians?? What of them. Not the Muslims but the Christians? Should we just disregard those because they do not say they are Jews?


It's anti-Zionists like you, as well the antichrist anti-Semites that you run with, that bear the responsibility for the ever-increasing demise of those Christians at the hand of your team. Team Hamas. Team Islam. Team Nazi. Team KKK.
Here's the future YOU created for those Christians that you pay lip service to pretending to bleed for, when those same Christians enjoyed protection under Israeli rule that you are systematically destroying:

Here we go again I and others like me are the only ones that are speaking up for them. It certainly is NOT YOU. I don't know if your aware of this but Israel almost outlawed Christianity! Before you say key word. Let me just tell you why. They knew they wouldn't get the support of sheeple like YOU.

Let me clue you in on something else.
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
When you study the Bible you have to look at who is talking then who is being spoken to then when it was written. And of course some things are written for latter times like much of Daniel. When this verse was written there was no such thing as Muhammad nor Islam!  So let me ask you WHO do you think was being discussed? I will give you one guess!

[Michael2]

What you claim you "do not like" is betrayed by your professing of futurist doctrine, that John Darby initiated in the English "Plymouth Brethren", and C.I. Scofield's annotated bible advanced in the 20th century U.S. "church".
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/end_time_myth.htm

Like your hollow objections to being recognized as taking the side of Hamas, the Nazis, skinheads, and the KKK & David Duke, even as you demonize Zionism right alongside them.
There are TWO DISTINCT SIDES.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2984.0

Your claim of disliking the futurist doctrine that you simultaneously hold, smacks of Muslims that are deceived into believing they believe in Jesus, when the reality is perfectly polar, since they profess the exact opposite of the whole subject of the Gospel.

I really couldn't be more clear. If we are just going to point fingers. Let me point the finger of your blatant use of a book that is meaningless to prove points in the Word of God! How ignorant can one possibly be?

No I have spent several years in full-time study, far beyond his book, including trying and testing his study in discussion with those that hold other eschatologies (though not as much time with heretics that hold unique, personal, one-off doctrines). The website links I have offered you (that are listed at the very bottom under this post) are the continuing result of that still-running study.
The bible advises us to:

You know!! I can see it. What you should have done is put all that nonsense down and studied the word of God! That really is the best way. You can't go to wrong with him. Give that a try!

I understand that might be what you think you do, but it's difficult to see how your insistence on the other temple of God, bears it out. Let's investigate your claim a little further.

Ya know funny you would say that. But YOU cleared that up for us didn't YOU. LOL ROTF

If you have studied it then you know that "naos" is also the term used for the temple that Christians are. It is the spiritual aspect of the physical temple.

Yep that is pretty clear
Look I didn't come here to play one upman ship with you. You know where to find me. I am willing to debate on a mature level when you are. But this nonsense of accusing stops here. Your like a kid or something. And Like you said this is not a Childs book. However it was given so a child could understand it. But people like you think it has to be more complicated than that. It don't!
For the last time I no more study with these people than you are a Muslim then again you quote them more than you do the bible. Maybe you are a Muslim. Hagee Scofield Darby. These are names that I have never would never study with. Just because we both KNOW that there will be a future anti-christ you make the connection. And I can assure you my friend that is where the connection ends! I would also add that if you think what you say is some little believed thing you a re dead wrong.

Look at it like this. Muslims are waiting on there 12th Imam the Jews are waiting on their Messiah. Lets not forget they rejected the Chief corner stone. Buddist are waiting on Buddy the Hindus are waiting on their millions of gods Christians (for the most part unfortunately because of the false doctrines of men like you accuse me of following) are waiting on the rapture. Then there are people like you that would have the world to believe that these things have already happened and the next step would be the rapture.
Your saying the same THING. May be just a little backwards. but the same. This is not what Jesus told us! Nor Paul! nor ANY of the Prophets. I mean real prophets in the word of GOD. Not like the false prophets you quote! In fact Jesus told us just the opposite.
unfortunately you may never understand this till it happens, But you (and all the other groups aforementioned) in all likeliness will be just like the people Jesus warned woe to you who are with child when I return. Your going to think the fake is real Jesus come to rapture you out. Because you didn't hold to the truth of God's word. Blessed is he that comes to the end the same shall be saved!
If you only understood! Anyway. Like I said earlier you know where to find me. Until then I have REAL studies to attend to! Thanks anyway.

[Marturion]

Michael2

1Jn 2:18  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7  For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Maybe you could show us which one of the only 4 verses that use the term antichrist or antichrists tell us about your boogeyman antichrist that is still in our future?

Why do you disagree with what/where Paul told us the temple of God is?
Who are the elect that are enemies of the gospel?
What is the difference  between the spirit of slumber and the spirit of antichrist?

[Peter]

I am willing to debate on a mature level when you are.

Then let us. Since I've only gotten glimpses of what you believe about Revelation and Daniel and the Olivet Discourse let me ask a broad question.

What portions of the book of Revelation - after chapter 3 - do you believe have been fulfilled?

[Peter]

You know where to find me.

I thought I could find you here since you "hate these little boxes" in YouTube.
And since you popped in here so quickly after my replies in this forum, I figured you were getting email notices of responses in here.
We realize you are busy with studies and maybe even tests, but perhaps you could find a short answer, or provide us with a paper or something with your view organized, if you have it written down.

[Michael2]

Who is Cains father. The answer is found Right there in Genesis 3 but confirmation is found in John 8 and also in Mat 23 and Mat 13 the parable of the tares are about Cain who his father is. Jesus point blank tells you. And the parable of the Fig Tree is also an awesome parable if you understand the horticulture of the fig tree. Remeber Eve sowed fig leaves to cover her womb!! Jeremiah 24 is also the place that tells us about the good fig and the bad fig (fake Jews). Are you starting to get the picture??

[Michael2]

It is not who I believe Cains father is! It is who the Bible says Cains father is! This is hard to accept but it is truth. I don't say it because I would rather you read it from your Bible yourself. I think ultimately we both agree that it does not matter what WE think but rather what the word of God says. I have MANY MANY passages to prove what I KNOW to be fact, however this is something even after YEARS of study I still didn't understand until God showed me. I pray that he shows you. 1 Chron. 2:55 will give ypou some direction as to his Children today. Cains children are the tares the Bad Fig! Read it.
Something I would like to point out about Matthew 13 is from 13:24 to 30 Jesus gave the parable of the tares which is spiritual. Then in 13:35 it says "That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world." That is exactly what we are discussing here, the secret from the foundation of the world. Then Jesus tells us what the parable means. Understand! When he tells you what it means you are not talking spiritually anymore it is LITERAL. From 13:36 to 39 he is telling you literally what the parable means. Then from 13:40 to 43 He is giving an application of it.

[Peter]

It is not who I believe Cains father is! It is who the Bible says Cains father is! This is hard to accept but it is truth.

Why would the truth of scripture be hard for a Christian to accept?
Here is what my bible says.

KJV Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

Cain's father was Adam.

And Adam
Old Testament Hebrew Definition:
0120 'adam {aw-dawm'}
from 0119; TWOT - 25a; n m
AV - man 408, men 121, Adam 13, person(s) 8, common sort + 07230 1,
hypocrite 1; 552
1) man, mankind
1a) man, human being
1b) man, mankind (much more frequently intended sense in OT)
1c) Adam, first man
1d) city in Jordan valley

knew
Old Testament Hebrew Definition:
03045 yada` {yaw-dah'}
1a3) to know (a person carnally)

the LORD
Old Testament Hebrew Definition:
03068 Y@hovah {yeh-ho-vaw'}
from 01961; TWOT - 484a; n pr dei
AV - LORD 6510, GOD 4, JEHOVAH 4, variant 1; 6519
Jehovah = "the existing One"
1) the proper name of the one true God
1a) unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of 0136
{Cain that is Gotten or Acquired}

Torah from Chabad.org
Gen 4:1. Now the man knew his wife Eve, and she conceived...

Hebrew interlinear
Gen 4:1 וְהָאָדָ u·e·adm and·the·human
יָדַע ido he-knew
×” Ö¸ chue Eve
אִ ְ ashth·u woman-of·him
הַר ַ u·ther and·she-is-becoming-pregnant

I don't say it because I would rather you read it from your Bible yourself. I think ultimately we both agree that it does not matter what WE think but rather what the word of God says.

Then why are you so afraid to come out and simply just tell us who you believe the word of God tells you Cain's father is? Why obfuscate?

I have MANY MANY passages to prove what I KNOW to be fact, however this is something even after YEARS of study I still didn't understand until God showed me.

Did He? Let's see. Have you ever heard of a man named Arnold Murray?

I pray that he shows you. 1 Chron. 2:55 will give ypou some direction as to his Children today. Cains children are the tares the Bad Fig! Read it.
Something I would like to point out about Matthew 13 is from 13:24 to 30 Jesus gave the parable of the tares which is spiritual. Then in 13:35 it says "That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world." That is exactly what we are discussing here, the secret from the foundation of the world. Then Jesus tells us what the parable means. Understand! When he tells you what it means you are not talking spiritually anymore it is LITERAL. From 13:36 to 39 he is telling you literally what the parable means. Then from 13:40 to 43 He is giving an application of it.

Please address Marturion's post on the prior page at this link http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3128.msg12982#msg12982
As well as the question in the post at the top of this page at this link http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3128.msg12983#msg12983