Peace in Israel

[Peter]

The PLO Phased Plan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCGIl7Io75U

Mahmoud Abbas, Leader of Palestine?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfEeIhGWmM4

http://www.youtube.com/user/FreeMiddleEast/videos

[Marturion]

Awesome video I'll have to watch more of them. Thanks for the link!!!

[Dave2]

The truth is that there will never be peace for the State of Israel. Zionism is a man-made 19th century ethnocentric heresy against Torah Judaism, armed with all the money and weapons it can get from the United States. They will never find peace because everything the Zionist state does is against all the principles of Judaism.  See three verses and explanations:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Oaths
Songs 2:7: I adjure you, O daughters of Jerusalem, by the gazelles, and by the hinds of the field, that ye awaken not, nor stir up love, until it please
Songs 3:5: I adjure you, O daughters of Jerusalem, by the gazelles, and by the hinds of the field, that ye awaken not, nor stir up love, until it please
Songs 8:4: I adjure you, O daughters of Jerusalem: Why should ye awaken, or stir up love, until it please?[2]

[Peter]

The truth is that there will never be peace for the State of Israel.

Perhaps not as long as Muhammad's cult exists, since even leaders of Islamic nation-states are sworn to kill all the Jews and drive them into the sea. In the mold of their false prophet Muhammad who beheaded innocent Jewish farm boys and their dads and grandpas, while he and his boys pressed their little sisters, moms and grandmothers into sexual slavery.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2364.0

"Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury,” Ahmedinejad

“We plan to eliminate the state of Israel and establish a purely Palestinian state. We will make life unbearable for Jews by psychological warfare and population explosion. . . . We Palestinians will take over everything, including all of Jerusalem.” Yasar Arafat

“Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are preparing for an all-out war, a war which will last for generations.” Arafat

That's YOUR team. Team Hamas and Hezbollah. Team Muhammad. Do you suppose those are the words of people of God or people of Satan?
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2983.0

Quran Sura 9.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah. then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

That's of course a lie regarding fighting and slaying being binding through the Gospel, but FIGHTING AND SLAYING NON-MUSLIMS IN "ALLAH'S" CAUSE IS BINDING ON MUHAMMAD'S FOLLOWERS IN THE QURAN!

Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.'"

By railing against the world's first line of defense against Muhammad's followers imperialistic conquest, what you are actually fighting for is your heirs to be compelled to prostrate themselves to the Quraish pagan's black stone idol in Mecca, five times a day.

Bukhari, V1 B2 #24 Narrated Ibn 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives an property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."
http://www.petewaldo.com/jihad.htm

AP - December 06, 2006 MOGADISHU, Somalia - "Residents of a southern Somalia town who do not pray five times a day will be beheaded, an Islamic courts official said Wednesday, adding the edict will be implemented in three days."
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=ap+beheading+somalia+prayer&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8

http://www.beholdthebeast.com/great_tribulation.htm

[Peter]

Zionism is a man-made 19th century ethnocentric heresy against Torah Judaism ......

I've been presented with at least one video of U.S. based "reformed" Jews that agree with you. But I also believe that some Jews that live in Israel may take issue with your opinion.
The truth is made obvious when we consider the fruit of your anti-Zionist "tree" that includes Nazis, skinheads, Muslims, David Duke and the KKK, Soviets, the U.N., and the Marxist World Council of Churches with the liberal wing of the apostate ecumenical "church", as well as anti-Semites of all stripes.

Did it ever make you even a little uncomfortable, to find yourself in the company of the other fruit, of your anti-Zionist tree?

Matthew 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

[Peter]

...... armed with all the money and weapons it can get from the United States.

Their fighting is in self-defense. The Israelis want to be left alone to live in peace and continue to be a blessing on all mankind, http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2852.0 but their enemies blow themselves up in crowded market places and on public buses while lobbing thousands of rockets randomly into Israel from Gaza.
With western welfare foolishly donated to so-called "Palestinian" "charities" funding....
"A Gaza charity headed by the interior minister of Hamas yesterday offered $1.4 million to any Arab citizen of Israel who abducts an Israeli soldier."
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/12374/finally-a-palestinian-charity-tells-the-truth/

"If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel" - Benjamin Netanyahu

That's a simple matter of fact. Yet you side with the Islamic aggressors whose conquest of Israel is just another stepping stone in their 1400 year goal of conquest of the world and subjugation of all people to Muhammad's followers. This even though Muslims in Israel enjoy more freedom than they do in any Muslim controlled country on earth. Your goal is to turn Israel into another sharia law ruled, black stone idol venerating, female circumcising, wife beating, free speech murdering, Christian and Jew slaughtering, church burning, Islamist slave state.

[Peter]

They will never find peace because everything the Zionist state does is against all the principles of Judaism.

So that's why you are helping to advance Islam's conquest of Israel. But then you're not only advancing Muhammad's followers conquest of Jews.

"'Christians must accept Islamic rule'
Militant leader in Gaza says missionaries will be 'dealt with harshly,' demands women wear headscarfs.
Christians can only continue living safely in the Gaza Strip if they accept Islamic law, including a ban on alcohol and on women roaming publicly without proper head coverings, an Islamist militant leader in Gaza told WND in an exclusive interview."
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3414753,00.html

Christians that had formerly enjoyed freedom of religion and protection under the Israelis before people like you advanced the give-away of Gaza under the guise of yet another false promise peace. Not only Christians, but Muslims also enjoy more freedom in Israel, than they do in any Muslim controlled country on earth.

Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself? You have shared with us in a couple different threads what you desire to disbelieve, so why don't you tell us a little about what you do believe.
For example, do you believe that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God?

[Peter]

See three verses and explanations:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Oaths
Songs 2:7: I adjure you, O daughters of Jerusalem, by the gazelles, and by the hinds of the field, that ye awaken not, nor stir up love, until it please
Songs 3:5: I adjure you, O daughters of Jerusalem, by the gazelles, and by the hinds of the field, that ye awaken not, nor stir up love, until it please
Songs 8:4: I adjure you, O daughters of Jerusalem: Why should ye awaken, or stir up love, until it please?[2]

From your link: "...those who are strongly anti-Zionist often view this Midrash as not being fulfilled, whereas Religious Zionists view it as an being fulfilled, maintained, and now obsolete. Both buttress their positions by citing historic rabbinic sources in favor of their view."

Nor do Jews consider the Talmud to be divinely inspired.

From the Torah regarding God's covenant with the seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, Yahweh is revealed as a Zionist.

Genesis 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

Genesis 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. 8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
http://israelinbibleprophecy.com

[Dave2]

Yes, but there are OTHER elements in the equation as well that you have skipped over, i.e. the warning in Deuteronomy of the effects of sin and the expulsion from the Land, later ingathering of exiles, etc. depending on repentance, the messiah, etc. It's not a  BLANK check to commit all types of sin and still enjoy the promises of the Torah. The State of Israel is built on heretical ideas of people like the jerk named Theodor Herzl (may his name be blotted out) and has nothing to do with obeying the Torah at all. Tel Aviv with its gay parades would resemble Sodom and Gomorrah far more than ancient Judea.

[Dave2]

Since I am not a Muslim it is not my place to decide how Muslims should behave in accordance with their faith. All I know is that the Zionist state fulfills the prophecy that says, "No peace says God to the wicked". That state will never have peace because they are desecrating all teachings of Judaism. They will never be left alone. They and their army have committed untold sins for which they have been saddled with increasing problems. Unfortunately too many Christians and probably Jews view someone like Netanyahu, Sharon, Rabin, Begin, Ben Gurion, etc. as the modern day Moses,which is disgusting. All of these men were and are evildoers. They have no portion in the World to Come. Jeroboam, Ahab and Menashe were holy righteous Jews compared to these people.

[Peter]

Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself? You have shared with us in a couple different threads what you desire to disbelieve, and choose reject, so why don't you tell us a little about what you do believe.
For example, are you a Christian?
Do you believe that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God?
Is your eschatology preterist or futurist?

[Peter]

Yes, but there are OTHER elements in the equation as well that you have skipped over, i.e. the warning in Deuteronomy of the effects of sin and the expulsion from the Land, later ingathering of exiles, etc. depending on repentance, the messiah, etc. It's not a  BLANK check to commit all types of sin and still enjoy the promises of the Torah.

By lumping faithful Jews with unfaithful Jews into a monolithic group, you put yourself in a monolithic group with all Gentiles.
My God is omniscient so He knew what the future would bring. When He made an everlasting covenant He meant it.

The State of Israel is built on heretical ideas of people like the jerk named Theodor Herzl (may his name be blotted out) .......

Again expressing your ignorance, or conveniently ignoring the history of the 19th century as is the MO of other anti-Zionists, by failing to recognize the restoration of Yahweh's people goes back to the early 19th century, after Israel had essentially been abandoned.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2982.0

........ and has nothing to do with obeying the Torah at all.

But I already pointed out that according to your own link this is simply the opinion of some, that you share, that is exactly opposite to the opinion of others, and all based on the same evidence.
What I also showed you is further evidence in the form of the fruit of the tree you inhabit. Please reply to that post.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3183.msg13309#msg13309

Tel Aviv with its gay parades would resemble Sodom and Gomorrah far more than ancient Judea.

New York City has gay parades too. What does that have to do with anything? I don't believe most Jews in Israel are any more faithful, than I believe most that even consider themselves to be Christian, are Christian.

[Peter]

Since I am not a Muslim it is not my place to decide how Muslims should behave in accordance with their faith.

Denial won't change the fact that you are advancing the Islamic conquest of Israel. I showed you how their books call faithful followers of Muhammad to violence against and subjugation of non-Muslims. It's only apostates, those sorely deceived, or those practicing taqiyyah that suggest Islam is a religion of peace, in spite of the hundreds of hadiths and suras that call them to violence against non-Muslims.
http://www.petewaldo.com/jihad.htm

All I know is that the Zionist state fulfills the prophecy that says, "No peace says God to the wicked".

But you don't "know" that at all.

That state will never have peace because they are desecrating all teachings of Judaism.

Which is purely just an opinion of yours that places you among the fruit of your tree.

They will never be left alone.

Well put. After 2500 years of persecution at the hands of folks like the Muslims and you, that wouldn't surprise me any more than it would surprise them.

They and their army have committed untold sins for which they have been saddled with increasing problems.

So you aid and abet their terrorist enemy in their conquest of Israel.
Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Unfortunately too many Christians and probably Jews view someone like Netanyahu, Sharon, Rabin, Begin, Ben Gurion, etc. as the modern day Moses,which is disgusting.

I would say that most Christians know better than to judge the condition of an individual's heart.

All of these men were and are evildoers. They have no portion in the World to Come.

Apparently you don't.
Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable [are] his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Jeroboam, Ahab and Menashe were holy righteous Jews compared to these people.

[Dave2]

I see you are not addressing any of my points. I don't care whether the Palestinians are Arabs, Greeks or Chinese. The ideology of Zionism is NON-KOSHER, otherwise known as TRAIF. If you would read the sources I posted you would get some idea of what Judaism holds. Why did God punish the Jewish people in biblical times? God never gave us a blank check! If we violate his oaths and commandments we will punished. As simple as 2 + 2 = 4.

Zionists are heretics, and three times a day we say in our prayers "To the informers and heretics let there be no hope, and all sectarians in a moment shall be eliminated....." The Zionists are the Amalekites and Mixed Multitude and have brainwashed almost the entire Jewish People and non-Jews as well.

[Dave2]

They have violated the decree of Exile with their heretical and atheistic teachings, brainwashing and bribing, and threatening everyone who stands in their way. Have you ever read the filthy diary of Theodor Herzl and see how much he hated Judaism? Or the threats against Torah observant Jews promoted by the wicked Jabotinsky? They have destroyed and desecrated the holiness of the the Holy Land. I hope the righteous will be preserved when the time comes. Tel Aviv is no different than Sodom and Gomorrah.

[Peter]

I see you are not addressing any of my points.

It is you that is guilty of what you falsely accuse. I answered to your "points" by pointing out that the alternate arguments of Zionists. Here's more.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Zionism/Return_to_Zion.html

Since your rejecting God's everlasting covenants with His people won't likely help us make any more theological headway between you and I, than the two camps of Jews that I pointed out that your link referenced, I thought I could save us some time by appealing to you to consider our two camps from another position, and that is based on the fruit, which you still have not addressed.
You ignored my appeal twice.
Please go to the following link, quote it, and address it now below the quoted portion.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3183.msg13309#msg13309

You also ignored two appeals to tell us a little about yourself. Why don't you start by telling us as to whether you are a Christian or Jew or without faith or something else.

I don't care whether the Palestinians are Arabs, Greeks or Chinese. The ideology of Zionism is NON-KOSHER, otherwise known as TRAIF. If you would read the sources I posted you would get some idea of what Judaism holds. Why did God punish the Jewish people in biblical times? God never gave us a blank check! If we violate his oaths and commandments we will punished. As simple as 2 + 2 = 4.

Zionists are heretics,...

I see.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/15268-zionism
"Rejected by Reform Judaism.
The Reform wing of the Synagogue, however, rejects this doctrine; and the Conference of Rabbis that sat in Frankfort-on-the-Main July 15-28, 1845, decided to eliminate from the ritual "the prayers for the return to the land of our forefathers and for the restoration of the Jewish state.""

So it took "reformed" Jews 3,000 years until 1845 to finally decide they were not supposed to pray for their return to the land of their forefathers.
Yet you point the finger and call Jews that have prayed that for that over thousands of years, including after 1845, heretics.

....and three times a day we say in our prayers "To the informers and heretics let there be no hope, and all sectarians in a moment shall be eliminated....."

So then you're a reformed Jew that is still waiting for your Messiah?

The Zionists are the Amalekites and Mixed Multitude ......

Muslims are also in the habit of believing that just because they are willing to declare something means it will magically come true.

....... and have brainwashed almost the entire Jewish People and non-Jews as well.

It's interesting that someone who runs with anti-Zionist Nazis, skinheads, Muslims, David Dike and the KKK, would fancy themselves to be in a position to point a finger at others as being brainwashed.

[Dave2]

This is not about me or about you personally. This is about what true Judaism teaches, notwithstanding the distortions of those who have chosen to follow the Baal of Zionism.
For more information to which you have probably never been exposed, try www.truetorahjews.com.

Feel free to ask me any questions. As we know in the case of worshipping Haman, the true leader Mordechai was known as "Mordechai will not bow and not prostrate himself!" Not to the lies of Haman, and in our generation no to the lies of the Zionist heretics.

[Peter]

Why have you decided to ignore everything and launch into a monologue? A more appropriate time to invite questions would be after you have addressed my replies to you. Like the prior post which was the third request for you to reply to two of my replies.

We all know why you don't want to talk about the fruit of the your anti-Zionist tree don't we. Finding yourself in the company of all those unregenerate anti-Semites must be pretty tough to come to terms with.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3183.msg13309#msg13309

I don't suppose you're from Israel either are you.

[Peter]

Feel free to ask me any questions.

OK

As we know in the case of worshipping Haman, the true leader Mordechai was known as "Mordechai will not bow and not prostrate himself!" Not to the lies of Haman, and in our generation no to the lies of the Zionist heretics.

You repeatedly seem to suggest that a Jew isn't saved by the condition of one's heart, but rather by the doctrine one keeps, or the happenstance of one's birthplace. As if a Jew that is born in New York city is lucky, because if he were born in Israel and took an interest in defending his people from the imperialistic murderous onslaught of Muhammad's followers - who are vowed to wipe Jews out to the last as Hitler was, and as Muhammad did to the innocent pubescent Jewish farm boys and their dads and grandads of the Banu Qurayza Jews - then those Jews that desire to defend their family and community are evil heretics. This even as the Israeli Jews provide more freedom to Muslims in Israel, than Muslims experience in any Muslim controlled country on earth.

[Peter]

Zionists are heretics, and three times a day we say in our prayers "To the informers and heretics let there be no hope, and all sectarians in a moment shall be eliminated....."

And perhaps only since 1845 rejecting: "the prayers for the return to the land of our forefathers and for the restoration of the Jewish state."?
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/15268-zionism

[Peter]

The Zionists are the Amalekites .......

This is a little bit of Deja Vu having just entertained a follower of Arnold Murray and his Serpent Seed doctrine in the forum, that made a similar claim but called them Kenites.

Since your focus is on the flesh, how do you identify which Jews in Israel are Amalekites? Are all Jews that live in the land of their prophets and patriarchs Amalekites? Or are just the Jews that were born there Amalekites? Or just the Jews that desire to defend their families and community, from the onslaught of imperialistic Islamic murderous hordes, Amalekites? Or do Amalekites in Israel wear stars on their coats like Hitler made Jews wear in Nazi Germany?

[Peter]

........ and Mixed Multitude and have brainwashed almost the entire Jewish People and non-Jews as well.

Even in the same sentence in which you make accusations of others being brainwashed, you simultaneously admit that your sect holds a minority view that is contrary to "...almost the entire Jewish People".
While I understand the power of indoctrination over large groups of people can convince them to believe something contrary to truth, at the same time you don't seem to be able to come to terms with the fact that Nazis, skinheads, Muslims, David Duke and the KKK, Louis Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam, the Soviets and anti-Semites of all stripes, share your anti-Zionism.
Doesn't that give you pause Dave? Do you think it just some sort of a coincidence?

[Peter]

Can you please offer a truthful opinion on the following quote?

"If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel"

The Israelis have entered into lots of peace agreements that were never upheld by the Muslims. Gaza, for example, simply provided a closer launch pad for the "Palestinians" who started raining down rockets randomly into Israel as soon as they moved in.

What would you have for the Jews in Israel?
That they simply stop defending themselves, throw away their security, and line up along a trench so Muhammad's followers can behead their innocent pubescent boys, and their dads and grandpas, and press their little sisters, moms and grandmoms into sexual slavery, like the Banu Qurayza suffered by the hand of Muhammad?
http://www.petewaldo.com/banu_qurayza_massacre.htm
(Jews persecuted by the Romans just as Christians were http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians#Persecution_of_early_Christians_in_the_Roman_Empire )
I likely don't have to tell you that on another occasion when Jews faced a fate like that they committed mass suicide.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/masada.html
Nor do I likely have to remind you of the fate Jews suffered at the hands of Hitler and his Islamic Mufti of Jerusalem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sk3fKY9PhY



With two Islamic panzer divisions in Hitler's army.

[Peter]

If you could reply to the posts in order, and push the "Quote" button before beginning, it will help us know which you are replying to and keep things from getting confused.